Ask HN: After working 70+ hrs a week my manager says no for promotion
83 comments
I have no idea what the problem is with respect to your not getting put up for promotion, but I certainly see a problem in your title.
Working x hours a week doesn't mean you should get promoted. Getting promoted has nothing to do with how hard you work but fulfilling the requirements for you to get promoted. If you want to get promoted, talk to your manager and figure out what you need to do to get promoted.
For example, at Google to get promoted you have to show that you are already performing at the level you want to be promoted to. The difference between different levels has nothing to do with how many hours or how hard you work, but with scope, so unless you're given a project that has an appropriate scope for the next level, you aren't going to be able to be promoted, and it's much easier to get things which help you fulfill those requirements if you talk to your manager.
In summary, talk to your manager and good luck.
Working x hours a week doesn't mean you should get promoted. Getting promoted has nothing to do with how hard you work but fulfilling the requirements for you to get promoted. If you want to get promoted, talk to your manager and figure out what you need to do to get promoted.
For example, at Google to get promoted you have to show that you are already performing at the level you want to be promoted to. The difference between different levels has nothing to do with how many hours or how hard you work, but with scope, so unless you're given a project that has an appropriate scope for the next level, you aren't going to be able to be promoted, and it's much easier to get things which help you fulfill those requirements if you talk to your manager.
In summary, talk to your manager and good luck.
Sounds great in theory, unfortunately, this doesn't really work in many situations because you need to be doing the job you were hired for.
Really, do you want more money or a better title? A better title doesn't really help at all and in fact can hinder. What you want is more money. Best way to get that is to move to another company.
If you want to be promoted to management, you need to learn politics and management. Lots of books on audible can help you with that.
Really, do you want more money or a better title? A better title doesn't really help at all and in fact can hinder. What you want is more money. Best way to get that is to move to another company.
If you want to be promoted to management, you need to learn politics and management. Lots of books on audible can help you with that.
> Sounds great in theory, unfortunately, this doesn't really work in many situations because you need to be doing the job you were hired for.
I assume that when you are asking for promotion you would have already been doing the job you were hired to do and very well at that. That being the case, if you talk with your manager and they know you want to get promoted and are willing to help you, I see no reason they would be upset about you performing at a higher level.
Of course, every company and even team is different so this doesn't necessarily apply to everyone.
> Really, do you want more money or a better title? A better title doesn't really help at all and in fact can hinder. What you want is more money. Best way to get that is to move to another company.
At a well run company, a better title should come with more money but again, all companies are different.
I assume that when you are asking for promotion you would have already been doing the job you were hired to do and very well at that. That being the case, if you talk with your manager and they know you want to get promoted and are willing to help you, I see no reason they would be upset about you performing at a higher level.
Of course, every company and even team is different so this doesn't necessarily apply to everyone.
> Really, do you want more money or a better title? A better title doesn't really help at all and in fact can hinder. What you want is more money. Best way to get that is to move to another company.
At a well run company, a better title should come with more money but again, all companies are different.
That's a good way of ensuring that you'll only grow laterally, not vertically.
Some transitions take time. Going from engineer to management is one. Most of the people I've met that did this stayed at a company for several years to make that jump happen.
Why is this important? Going from place to place as an engineer might net $5-10k per hop, but the numbers and incentives from going from engineer to management and then transitioning into another company are much much larger.
Some transitions take time. Going from engineer to management is one. Most of the people I've met that did this stayed at a company for several years to make that jump happen.
Why is this important? Going from place to place as an engineer might net $5-10k per hop, but the numbers and incentives from going from engineer to management and then transitioning into another company are much much larger.
>>Really, do you want more money or a better title? A better title doesn't really help at all and in fact can hinder.
If you have opportunity on one hand and money on the other. Always chose opportunity, because a good opportunity will lead to better money in the future.
If you have opportunity on one hand and money on the other. Always chose opportunity, because a good opportunity will lead to better money in the future.
Spoken like someone with plenty of money in the bank, which is of course a luxurious position to find yourself in. And in those circumstances I agree with you.
But the above doesn't hold for everyone, and thus I don't in general agree with your assessment.
But the above doesn't hold for everyone, and thus I don't in general agree with your assessment.
to add color: your manager at Google will outline exactly what OKRs you need to hit to have a good chance at being successful for that promotion, even if it doesn't mean that you'll get that promotion right away. (It can take years to go from a 4 to a 5.) But the onus of keeping track of those OKRs and ensuring that both parties know they are being met is on the engineer.
I want to commend you on taking the opportunity to examine the situation rather than just letting it go. It can be really hard to break out of a rut. While everyone else is suggesting the obvious; find someone who will pay you more, I'm going to offer a slightly different angle because when you mention other people who are underperforming are being considered and that you are good at office politics, it raises a red flag for me.
First, I would recommend taking a long look at your communication skills. Growing in the workplace is often about effectively selling your vision and then making sure it gets executed. Whether its a corporate strategy or a update to an internal microservice, you're going to need to get people to buy-in to your ideas. Just because you can do the work, doesn't mean you can get other people to do the work too.
Second, another concern of mine is that you aren't properly understanding the goals of the company, or those of your immediate supervisors at least. If you put in an insane amount if hours and hit all your deadlines, but people who work less and cause delays are being considered for a promotion instead of you, it leads me to believe you might be doing things you aren't asked to do, which leads me to believe you might be a bit of a rogue employee, always doing what you think is best even if it's not what your supervisor wanted.
Finally, another nod to communication skills. The fact that you put in so much time and your colleagues might not be, makes me wonder if you don't work well in a team. If you're a solo 10xer, great! but you still have to work with other people if you want to grow within a company.
regardless, the absolute most important thing is that you are very correct to question the circumstance. Something has to change!
First, I would recommend taking a long look at your communication skills. Growing in the workplace is often about effectively selling your vision and then making sure it gets executed. Whether its a corporate strategy or a update to an internal microservice, you're going to need to get people to buy-in to your ideas. Just because you can do the work, doesn't mean you can get other people to do the work too.
Second, another concern of mine is that you aren't properly understanding the goals of the company, or those of your immediate supervisors at least. If you put in an insane amount if hours and hit all your deadlines, but people who work less and cause delays are being considered for a promotion instead of you, it leads me to believe you might be doing things you aren't asked to do, which leads me to believe you might be a bit of a rogue employee, always doing what you think is best even if it's not what your supervisor wanted.
Finally, another nod to communication skills. The fact that you put in so much time and your colleagues might not be, makes me wonder if you don't work well in a team. If you're a solo 10xer, great! but you still have to work with other people if you want to grow within a company.
regardless, the absolute most important thing is that you are very correct to question the circumstance. Something has to change!
> Growing in the workplace is often about effectively selling your vision and then making sure it gets executed
It's so hard for me personally. It can be really discouraging knowing your idea is good but you can't get any buy in. I have to stop and think, and ask myself "is it worth it for me to jump on my sword for this?" Often times the answer is no.
It's so hard for me personally. It can be really discouraging knowing your idea is good but you can't get any buy in. I have to stop and think, and ask myself "is it worth it for me to jump on my sword for this?" Often times the answer is no.
More people struggle with this than you think. Leadership IS hard.
If you are having a hard time with this, take a step back, instead of telling people what you think would be better, ask what they think would be better.
It's easier to get people to put time into something they already believe in rather than a whole new idea.
If you are having a hard time with this, take a step back, instead of telling people what you think would be better, ask what they think would be better.
It's easier to get people to put time into something they already believe in rather than a whole new idea.
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A few life lessons after a decade in IT:
1. It's 10% about what you do. And 90% about how you present it. Presentation includes getting people to people know your value, your impact to the business, and most importantly, talking yourself up, and talking yourself up to the right people :). The higher you go, the more important this is. Which goes to point 2:
2. The higher you go, the more it is about who you know, and how well you know them. Who's ear have you got? How influential are they, and who are they influencing? What do people think of you?
3. Then it's your teammates, and your peers. You want to get promoted, but what do they think? Are they going to support you? The company thinks of this too.
You mentioned people who have caused delays, being considered for promotion instead of yourself. How well do they hit the above 3 points?
The higher you go, the more that it becomes a people job instead of a technical job. One thing to ask yourself as well is, do you want to go up? Or do you want to stay technical? If you want to go up, better get in the game!
It's normal to get frustrated on the journey up the ladder. As others have mentioned, the hours are only the entry price, there's many other factors at play here. Btw, as you'll know when you become a manager, his job is to make sure you deliver - and you have, for one year already, 70 hours a week. His job is not to get you what you want, his job is to make sure you work (and the harder that he can make you work, the better). Personally I don't agree with this approach, and it's not one I use, but then again, I've personally had many managers like this.
Ultimately, you will be promoted. I'm sure of it. You're already talking to the right people (this audience :)). It'll just take time. How much time, depends on how well you master factors 1-3 above.
1. It's 10% about what you do. And 90% about how you present it. Presentation includes getting people to people know your value, your impact to the business, and most importantly, talking yourself up, and talking yourself up to the right people :). The higher you go, the more important this is. Which goes to point 2:
2. The higher you go, the more it is about who you know, and how well you know them. Who's ear have you got? How influential are they, and who are they influencing? What do people think of you?
3. Then it's your teammates, and your peers. You want to get promoted, but what do they think? Are they going to support you? The company thinks of this too.
You mentioned people who have caused delays, being considered for promotion instead of yourself. How well do they hit the above 3 points?
The higher you go, the more that it becomes a people job instead of a technical job. One thing to ask yourself as well is, do you want to go up? Or do you want to stay technical? If you want to go up, better get in the game!
It's normal to get frustrated on the journey up the ladder. As others have mentioned, the hours are only the entry price, there's many other factors at play here. Btw, as you'll know when you become a manager, his job is to make sure you deliver - and you have, for one year already, 70 hours a week. His job is not to get you what you want, his job is to make sure you work (and the harder that he can make you work, the better). Personally I don't agree with this approach, and it's not one I use, but then again, I've personally had many managers like this.
Ultimately, you will be promoted. I'm sure of it. You're already talking to the right people (this audience :)). It'll just take time. How much time, depends on how well you master factors 1-3 above.
This is both true and sad. It's also why I've stayed predominantly technical (I did take a managerial role at one point but changed jobs for a technical lead position). Some people may be cut out for middle management corporate bullshit...I am one of those that is not :)
Lets say you worked 75 hrs a week? 5 days a week- So that comes to around 15 hrs a day. That is a lot. Even with 6 days that is 12 hrs a week. Never do that again. Unless you are working on your own venture or have somebody over you, a boss that has agreed to reward you in return before hand.
My guess is you work at a big corporate. Then Im sorry to break out the bad news to you. You managers knows too well that you are hard working and deliver results. But he likely has a political cartel going on, due to which it doesn't really matter how hard you work. In fact you can even do 120 hr work week and all you would be at the end is a useful work donkey on which he can dump all the work while he rewards his lackeys. Never ever ever, contribute good work to an unfair system.
And yes you got it right, your only option is to keep hopping jobs until you find the right manager. There is no known solution to this problem unless you wish to be as big a fraud and cheat as much as they are or bigger.
The only advice I can give to you is to not take this to your head. Spend your time being productive, useful and gaining skills as you spend time in this profession. These investment pay on the longer run.
But as far office politics itself is concerned. Alas there is no other solution. Unless you find a manager that can take care of you, or you are just enjoying an insane patch of luck. You just have to suffer through politics.
No known solution exists.
My guess is you work at a big corporate. Then Im sorry to break out the bad news to you. You managers knows too well that you are hard working and deliver results. But he likely has a political cartel going on, due to which it doesn't really matter how hard you work. In fact you can even do 120 hr work week and all you would be at the end is a useful work donkey on which he can dump all the work while he rewards his lackeys. Never ever ever, contribute good work to an unfair system.
And yes you got it right, your only option is to keep hopping jobs until you find the right manager. There is no known solution to this problem unless you wish to be as big a fraud and cheat as much as they are or bigger.
The only advice I can give to you is to not take this to your head. Spend your time being productive, useful and gaining skills as you spend time in this profession. These investment pay on the longer run.
But as far office politics itself is concerned. Alas there is no other solution. Unless you find a manager that can take care of you, or you are just enjoying an insane patch of luck. You just have to suffer through politics.
No known solution exists.
A true story for your consideration:
One of my first jobs was as a dishwasher at a pasta shop. A few of my friends worked there and helped me land the job. One of them, Kevin, was a particularly good dishwasher--fast, efficient, conscientious. The managers were vocally appreciative of his work and used him as an example.
One day, I was talking to one of the other friends, Macey, and I mentioned that I thought Kevin was probably up for a promotion. The career path at this pasta shop was dishwasher > cook > waiter > manager, and at a place like that you could move up pretty quickly because turnover was so high. Macey said with some confidence that Kevin would never get promoted. He was just too fast at washing dishes. He'd made himself indispensable, especially on high-traffic evenings, and the management would never gum up the works by moving him to another position.
Macey was wrong. Kevin was promoted to cook within a few weeks.
I guess there are managers who won't promote their most productive employee. And there are managers who will.
One of my first jobs was as a dishwasher at a pasta shop. A few of my friends worked there and helped me land the job. One of them, Kevin, was a particularly good dishwasher--fast, efficient, conscientious. The managers were vocally appreciative of his work and used him as an example.
One day, I was talking to one of the other friends, Macey, and I mentioned that I thought Kevin was probably up for a promotion. The career path at this pasta shop was dishwasher > cook > waiter > manager, and at a place like that you could move up pretty quickly because turnover was so high. Macey said with some confidence that Kevin would never get promoted. He was just too fast at washing dishes. He'd made himself indispensable, especially on high-traffic evenings, and the management would never gum up the works by moving him to another position.
Macey was wrong. Kevin was promoted to cook within a few weeks.
I guess there are managers who won't promote their most productive employee. And there are managers who will.
Apologies for the random italics. I meant to add asterisks indicating that names had been changed.
Use the edit, Luke!
It doesn't matter what you do, it's what you're seen to do. People that are good self promoters do well at this, and people that quietly get their work done, don't. I don't like this myself, and I'm not very good at it, but it is how it works. You know the type of people that are always telling their bosses what they have done (and usually taking credit for work that was done by the team), they are the ones that move up first. You'd think that bosses would see through this but they often don't.
I have read about 'making your manager look good' as a tactic for promotion, and that seems to make sense too, but I've never really tried it. This probably means not bringing up any bad news too.
This all may seem cynical, but I've seen it work for other people.
I have read about 'making your manager look good' as a tactic for promotion, and that seems to make sense too, but I've never really tried it. This probably means not bringing up any bad news too.
This all may seem cynical, but I've seen it work for other people.
Did you build the groundbreaking platform solo or did you and a team build it?
Is it truly groundbreaking on its own merit or is this a personal adjective?
If you are part of a team and you are putting in long hours where other team members (çloser to bosses ear) are not, you may brew issues. Pull others in, delegate, share some credit, involve the team.
How well have you self-promoted this groundbreaking (yuge claim btw) platform outside of your own team? Does anyone else at the company know your name or are you the "guy in the basement carrying/justifying three positions with your output"?
It is very tough to catch rec in a large org where everyone is pitted against eachother for promotions.
Some ideas are:
1. Be careful touting your hours worked as a metric for promotion. Sometimes you look like a sucker rather than a leader deserving promo. Also toutimg hours automatically makes coworkers appear bad. If they have the managers ear, you tell me how this goes.
2. Consider the word "promotion". If your looking to a manager to "promote you", make it easy for him/her by promoting yourself first. Show other groups/team members this project. Become a trainer. Shake hands and kiss babies accross your org. Let them have no option but to speak your name in conjuction with this groundbreaking platform.
Im in a similar boat. The above are some things ive done to stand out and be promoted. Lots of groundwork over 3-4 years.
Is it truly groundbreaking on its own merit or is this a personal adjective?
If you are part of a team and you are putting in long hours where other team members (çloser to bosses ear) are not, you may brew issues. Pull others in, delegate, share some credit, involve the team.
How well have you self-promoted this groundbreaking (yuge claim btw) platform outside of your own team? Does anyone else at the company know your name or are you the "guy in the basement carrying/justifying three positions with your output"?
It is very tough to catch rec in a large org where everyone is pitted against eachother for promotions.
Some ideas are:
1. Be careful touting your hours worked as a metric for promotion. Sometimes you look like a sucker rather than a leader deserving promo. Also toutimg hours automatically makes coworkers appear bad. If they have the managers ear, you tell me how this goes.
2. Consider the word "promotion". If your looking to a manager to "promote you", make it easy for him/her by promoting yourself first. Show other groups/team members this project. Become a trainer. Shake hands and kiss babies accross your org. Let them have no option but to speak your name in conjuction with this groundbreaking platform.
Im in a similar boat. The above are some things ive done to stand out and be promoted. Lots of groundwork over 3-4 years.
Without knowing you or your workplace exactly, there's two buckets this falls into. The first is nefarious, where your manager took advantage of you to provide output and will replace you with someone else eager. In this case the only solution is leave and try to determine the red flags that led you to this point to avoid joining another role with the same demands.
The second possibility is that there's a missing communication gap here. As you've discovered, effort alone is not the key to success. Effort may get you between basic levels, e.g. Programmer 1 to Programmer 2, but not necessarily from Programmer to Team Lead where there's more expectations beyond technical skills like mentoring, working between organizations, etc
Some questions to ask yourself and possibly discuss further with manager:
1. Why did the 70+ hours go on for a year? Was this coming down from top level or self imposed? Where was the communication about sustainability, or outcomes upon completion?
2. Where was the 1:1s and check-ins during this project that you got to the end before knowing the outcome? You own your 1:1s, use them to discuss your career goals, advancement, and blockers, not just as a status update. Schedule them if your manager isn't.
3. Was your manager previously aware of your desire to get promoted? Remember, not everyone wants to get promoted. Have you previously discussed goals, measures, and skills to obtain this?
4. If you previously discussed the goals and measures, why did this 70+hr/wk project not align with these goals? This in particular is a failure of management. "Crunch time" is a given in industry at times, but this seems into Death March territory if it was top-down.
4(b). If the previously discussed goals did align with this project, what else is missing that didn't get met? If everything did get met, argue to that positioning and discussion rather than "I worked really hard and made a thing."
5. How was your communication of the work you were performing and completing? Sell benefits, not features. Did others perhaps think that you worked long hours because of your lack of skill, thus requiring more hours to make it up?
The second possibility is that there's a missing communication gap here. As you've discovered, effort alone is not the key to success. Effort may get you between basic levels, e.g. Programmer 1 to Programmer 2, but not necessarily from Programmer to Team Lead where there's more expectations beyond technical skills like mentoring, working between organizations, etc
Some questions to ask yourself and possibly discuss further with manager:
1. Why did the 70+ hours go on for a year? Was this coming down from top level or self imposed? Where was the communication about sustainability, or outcomes upon completion?
2. Where was the 1:1s and check-ins during this project that you got to the end before knowing the outcome? You own your 1:1s, use them to discuss your career goals, advancement, and blockers, not just as a status update. Schedule them if your manager isn't.
3. Was your manager previously aware of your desire to get promoted? Remember, not everyone wants to get promoted. Have you previously discussed goals, measures, and skills to obtain this?
4. If you previously discussed the goals and measures, why did this 70+hr/wk project not align with these goals? This in particular is a failure of management. "Crunch time" is a given in industry at times, but this seems into Death March territory if it was top-down.
4(b). If the previously discussed goals did align with this project, what else is missing that didn't get met? If everything did get met, argue to that positioning and discussion rather than "I worked really hard and made a thing."
5. How was your communication of the work you were performing and completing? Sell benefits, not features. Did others perhaps think that you worked long hours because of your lack of skill, thus requiring more hours to make it up?
Unfortunately there's no silver bullet, but I'll share my opinion/thoughts.
If the game is to move up the ladder, then it's best to understand what management thinks is important. What does your boss really value, and how do you think they see you?
If you know underachievers that are getting promoted, then somebody doesn't think they're underachievers. Are they more vocal/communicative about their work? Do they take your boss(es) out for lunch or hang out on the weekends? Do they dream up new initiatives and share ideas? Good work often goes overlooked, so it's probably on you to make sure your bosses know what you're up to.
You might even consider seeking an objective appraisal of your work (well, as objective as possible). Does your new platform _really_ deliver enough value to warrant a promotion? Maybe, I have no idea.
If it turns out that your work really _is_ undervalued, and the politics game isn't for you, then it might be better to move on.
If the game is to move up the ladder, then it's best to understand what management thinks is important. What does your boss really value, and how do you think they see you?
If you know underachievers that are getting promoted, then somebody doesn't think they're underachievers. Are they more vocal/communicative about their work? Do they take your boss(es) out for lunch or hang out on the weekends? Do they dream up new initiatives and share ideas? Good work often goes overlooked, so it's probably on you to make sure your bosses know what you're up to.
You might even consider seeking an objective appraisal of your work (well, as objective as possible). Does your new platform _really_ deliver enough value to warrant a promotion? Maybe, I have no idea.
If it turns out that your work really _is_ undervalued, and the politics game isn't for you, then it might be better to move on.
My thought is, maybe you are too good at your current role?
Ive heard of good performers not getting promotions because they are needed to maintain performance in their current team. (not in a software company)
You'll probably need to give us more context. It's dangerous to speculate without it. What was the value of the platform? How long have you been with the company? Have there been any incidents over the last year that would have created a negative impression of you in the mind of your manager (however justified or unjustified)? Are you an isolated case or is this a pattern at your organization? What is your communication channel with your manager like? One-on-one chats, email, text? How often?
Waheell...
This is a big can o' worms, and no one here knows what really went down (I don't think even you do) so there a necessarily going to be some assumptions. Can you forgive me (and the others that are presumably preparing their own replies even as I type this)?
If you're cool with cutting straight to the chase: I'm pretty sure there are some kind of "rules to getting ahead" at your workplace that you are not perceiving. I don't know what they are, but I think you must be really whiffing on them bad to not even get a token promotion for what you've contributed.
(One assumption I'm making is that you've done what you said you did. I have a decent BS-dectector and while there's limited info to go on here, I believe you are sincere.)
So...
1. What promotion did you go for? Your accomplishments have been technical so if you were going for a technical promotion -- e.g. SW Engineer to Senior SW Engineer, or Senior to Principal or whatever -- or just a raise in $$$ then you've made a good case. On the other hand, if you were looking to go into, e.g., management then the technical accomplishments might not as obviously qualify you. (Personally, I think people who show they can excel in domains with complex and competing constraints are qualified for a wide variety of responsibilities, but I haven't found that's a widely held view among executives.)
2. You manager may be powerless to give you a promotion. Some mangers (weak ones) won't admit it, but they may have no actual power to promote you no matter what they do.
3. You say you're OK at office politics (good but not the best) but I think there must be some stuff -- some dominant trends -- that you are not fully perceiving. E.g., you thought the way to get ahead was to work 70+ hours a week for a year, but apparently it's actually to develop a "strong connection" with your manager.
I don't know. You might be able to adjust and excel and get the promotion you want at your current employer, but it really sounds like you will be "swimming upstream" there: you've got skills and a work ethic that they don't value.
Consider working normal hours at your current position and in the meantime (1) look for a new position where they might value what you have to offer; (2) spend the newly freed-up hours doing something personally enriching (whether personally or professionally).
Edit: Ah, shoot, went from zero to 37 responses while I wrote this, and the Opost is flagged to boot. Oh wells.
This is a big can o' worms, and no one here knows what really went down (I don't think even you do) so there a necessarily going to be some assumptions. Can you forgive me (and the others that are presumably preparing their own replies even as I type this)?
If you're cool with cutting straight to the chase: I'm pretty sure there are some kind of "rules to getting ahead" at your workplace that you are not perceiving. I don't know what they are, but I think you must be really whiffing on them bad to not even get a token promotion for what you've contributed.
(One assumption I'm making is that you've done what you said you did. I have a decent BS-dectector and while there's limited info to go on here, I believe you are sincere.)
So...
1. What promotion did you go for? Your accomplishments have been technical so if you were going for a technical promotion -- e.g. SW Engineer to Senior SW Engineer, or Senior to Principal or whatever -- or just a raise in $$$ then you've made a good case. On the other hand, if you were looking to go into, e.g., management then the technical accomplishments might not as obviously qualify you. (Personally, I think people who show they can excel in domains with complex and competing constraints are qualified for a wide variety of responsibilities, but I haven't found that's a widely held view among executives.)
2. You manager may be powerless to give you a promotion. Some mangers (weak ones) won't admit it, but they may have no actual power to promote you no matter what they do.
3. You say you're OK at office politics (good but not the best) but I think there must be some stuff -- some dominant trends -- that you are not fully perceiving. E.g., you thought the way to get ahead was to work 70+ hours a week for a year, but apparently it's actually to develop a "strong connection" with your manager.
I don't know. You might be able to adjust and excel and get the promotion you want at your current employer, but it really sounds like you will be "swimming upstream" there: you've got skills and a work ethic that they don't value.
Consider working normal hours at your current position and in the meantime (1) look for a new position where they might value what you have to offer; (2) spend the newly freed-up hours doing something personally enriching (whether personally or professionally).
Edit: Ah, shoot, went from zero to 37 responses while I wrote this, and the Opost is flagged to boot. Oh wells.
Been in similar situation for quite a long time. The only thing that worked exceptionally well for me was to found my own company. I became my own boss, hired a few people, did and currently do some great products.
Before that, I never tried to change the employer to get a raise. I felt pretty quickly that I can do my own game, so there is no sense in making moves to local extremums. Instead, I just used the time at work to get more experience and expertise.
Before that, I never tried to change the employer to get a raise. I felt pretty quickly that I can do my own game, so there is no sense in making moves to local extremums. Instead, I just used the time at work to get more experience and expertise.
The not-so-secret way of getting raises and promotions in the tech world is to switch jobs.
You won't like this answer, but as you point out, the solution is to get another job.
Broder experience should help, you'll begin to see patterns based on the different places you've worked and be better equipped to handle the problems you encounter.
The only jobs I've really regretted are those I stayed at too long. The last years seem like a waste of time, I could of provided more value, and got more useful experience elsewhere.
Broder experience should help, you'll begin to see patterns based on the different places you've worked and be better equipped to handle the problems you encounter.
The only jobs I've really regretted are those I stayed at too long. The last years seem like a waste of time, I could of provided more value, and got more useful experience elsewhere.
Tell yourself this daily: "Quit being a corporate lackey. This company doesn't care about me they only want to extract value from my labor."
I too want to extract value for my labor.
There are many things in play here.
We humans are social animals and we still have a lot of vestigial stuff when it comes to establish our relative social rank. The people you perceive as being less competent maybe appeal to those vestigial "leadership traits" more. Superficial stuff such as your voice, your posture... and less superficial stuff like how you express yourself, verbally and non-verbally. You can try to work with a voice coach, you would be impressed with the results.
Then, maybe you are a victim of your own success. Being too effective in your role can make it harder for you to be replaced.
Support is required for getting promoted. Support would be taken for granted in a meritocracy, where people recognize and honor merit, by supporting people that deserve a promotion or stepping aside if a better candidate comes up. But not every organization is a meritocracy.
It is not only about doing a lot of work, but also about being able to take the credit for that work. If you were an individual contributor in a team, most likely the credit got distributed among the team or your manager took a good chunk of it.
We humans are social animals and we still have a lot of vestigial stuff when it comes to establish our relative social rank. The people you perceive as being less competent maybe appeal to those vestigial "leadership traits" more. Superficial stuff such as your voice, your posture... and less superficial stuff like how you express yourself, verbally and non-verbally. You can try to work with a voice coach, you would be impressed with the results.
Then, maybe you are a victim of your own success. Being too effective in your role can make it harder for you to be replaced.
Support is required for getting promoted. Support would be taken for granted in a meritocracy, where people recognize and honor merit, by supporting people that deserve a promotion or stepping aside if a better candidate comes up. But not every organization is a meritocracy.
It is not only about doing a lot of work, but also about being able to take the credit for that work. If you were an individual contributor in a team, most likely the credit got distributed among the team or your manager took a good chunk of it.
Working a lot will almost never lead to "a promotion". The environment you are in doesn't see the issue with you working 70 hours and did nothing to mitigate it. That is poor management, poor product definition and poor program management. Run from these situations.
Startups that tout "we work hard, we play hard", avoid them. That is synonymous with "you work hard, we hope to profit". Sadly at a YC recruiting event some years back there was an SF startup touting "we are a family" and "we meet with customers after hours to get input" as positive things. I wish I recalled the name of the startup. Unless it is your own startup or you have significant equity (founders shares), your 70 hours is a nice charitable gift to management and the investors.
I've been guilty of this. Caring about the company, product, etc. only to pull my head out of my ass, realize the negative impact on my life and walked away before the 1st year cliff of vesting.
Startups that tout "we work hard, we play hard", avoid them. That is synonymous with "you work hard, we hope to profit". Sadly at a YC recruiting event some years back there was an SF startup touting "we are a family" and "we meet with customers after hours to get input" as positive things. I wish I recalled the name of the startup. Unless it is your own startup or you have significant equity (founders shares), your 70 hours is a nice charitable gift to management and the investors.
I've been guilty of this. Caring about the company, product, etc. only to pull my head out of my ass, realize the negative impact on my life and walked away before the 1st year cliff of vesting.
You might be working yourself out of a promotion. I once worked for a company that promoted poorly performing programmers to project managers to keep them out of production code.
Good software engineers end up doing the same job but getting titles: Senior Engineer, Team Lead, Specialist Engineer, Consultant Engineer. Basically the same job but with a little prestige.
If you are a hard worker then you should realise your value, line up a new job and take it as a lesson learnt. Changing jobs is the fastest way up the ladder and whatever you do, don't burn bridges. You might be back in 12 months as your managers manager, I've seen it happen.
Good software engineers end up doing the same job but getting titles: Senior Engineer, Team Lead, Specialist Engineer, Consultant Engineer. Basically the same job but with a little prestige.
If you are a hard worker then you should realise your value, line up a new job and take it as a lesson learnt. Changing jobs is the fastest way up the ladder and whatever you do, don't burn bridges. You might be back in 12 months as your managers manager, I've seen it happen.
You need to consider that if you're a manager and you have an employee working 70 hours a week, your first intuition might be that they have to invest almost twice as much time as the others to keep up.
This is neither true or fair, but you didn't come here looking for fairness. The reality is that they simply aren't aware of the value that you believe that you're creating, and they certainly aren't happy about you putting in so much time to do it.
Time for the next adventure. This time, set boundaries and make sure to have a social life outside of work. You'll find that things go smoother. Hang in there!
This is neither true or fair, but you didn't come here looking for fairness. The reality is that they simply aren't aware of the value that you believe that you're creating, and they certainly aren't happy about you putting in so much time to do it.
Time for the next adventure. This time, set boundaries and make sure to have a social life outside of work. You'll find that things go smoother. Hang in there!
Does your contract actually stipulate 70 hours a week, or were you fairly compensated for your overtime? If no to either: why did you keep pulling 70 hours a week after the first week? Because if you worked at the same level as someone working 40 hours, with the only difference being you were willing to work 70 for no additional pay, then as an employee you're not worth more than someone working 40 hours a week. You may have actually cheated yourself out of a promotion or even raise simply by pretending working long hours for the same pay would be worth it in the long run.
Why would any company promote you and thus pay you more if they already extract nearly double the total work* out of you for the current pay? You are a mostly-replacable cog in their machine and it's in their best interest to pay you as little as possible for as much effort as possible.
Changing jobs isn't running from it. You change into a higher position with both higher responsibility and pay, and therefore move up.
Don't ever work extra to 'prove yourself'. All you're proving is that they're able to get more effort out of you for no extra cost.
Changing jobs isn't running from it. You change into a higher position with both higher responsibility and pay, and therefore move up.
Don't ever work extra to 'prove yourself'. All you're proving is that they're able to get more effort out of you for no extra cost.
Effort and results may not be enough because real life isn't a meritocracy. Insecure manangers worry they'll promote someone whom could be promoted past them as their new boss instead of them getting promoted (promotions as win-loss), save some money on their P&L by BS under-promoting people or pigeonholed someone as a worker role instead of mentoring/trialing them for managing or leading. These and other nonperformance factors can high-peforming staff surrounded by communication major managers.
> he told me it's not enough for promotion and we should wait. I did my best to convince him.
Don't let others make a decision for you -- promote yourself! Want to break out of mediocrity? Here's some food for thought from James Altucher > http://freakonomics.com/2013/06/05/in-praise-of-mediocrity-a...
Don't let others make a decision for you -- promote yourself! Want to break out of mediocrity? Here's some food for thought from James Altucher > http://freakonomics.com/2013/06/05/in-praise-of-mediocrity-a...
I would make a concerted effort to improve your English. You may not perceive it as fair, but you will be judged by your usage of language, and some of the mistakes you made in this post would indicate "not management material" to many managers. Believe me I know it's difficult -- I lived for some time in a country where I spoke the local language much worse than you speak English, but this is something you may want to consider.
Quit right now. Do you know anyone with technical skill and either organisational or political acumen who knows you have technical skill? Go do consulting with them. Go do consulting with someone. Quit and start applying for jobs like it's your full time job. Quit, work on that market for lemons upwork.com and blog about the problems you're solving. Quit, do a Udacity nanodegree and then work on their hiring platform, Udacity Blitz.
But definitely quit.
But definitely quit.
Finding a new job will temporary temporary solve your problem.
Management will only promote people if they think promotion will help them or the company. Promotion is not a way to reward people for their hard work. You have bonuses for that.
If you want to promotion you should already act and take responsibilities as you are already promoted. So instead of building platform you should be convincing other people (or management) for resources to build the platform.
Management will only promote people if they think promotion will help them or the company. Promotion is not a way to reward people for their hard work. You have bonuses for that.
If you want to promotion you should already act and take responsibilities as you are already promoted. So instead of building platform you should be convincing other people (or management) for resources to build the platform.
so many questions:
1. Wha did you work on, and how valuable was it to your company? In other words, to whom was this product "groundbreaking?" if what you worked on wasn't perceived as valuable, then you could've spent 100 hours a week on it; the result you experienced would have been the same. Which leads me to:
2. How often did you catch up with your lead and "skip level" (his or her lead)? Tou want to move up in your career; did you have this conversation with them? have you worked on goals with them? If you haven't, then you were effectively flying blind, hence the result.
3. Did anyone else know about the time you were spending on this platform that you built? If not, why?
4. Did your manager tell you why you were rejected for promotion? Did s/he build a performance plan (the good kind) to ensure that you got the promo next time?
Switching companies is a solution, and you'll probably get paid more and perhaps receive a title upgrade, but not keeping these things in mind will limit or handicap your progress eventually. you want to vertically progress, not horizontally unless you REALLY like the space within which you're working (this post tells me that you're not).
1. Wha did you work on, and how valuable was it to your company? In other words, to whom was this product "groundbreaking?" if what you worked on wasn't perceived as valuable, then you could've spent 100 hours a week on it; the result you experienced would have been the same. Which leads me to:
2. How often did you catch up with your lead and "skip level" (his or her lead)? Tou want to move up in your career; did you have this conversation with them? have you worked on goals with them? If you haven't, then you were effectively flying blind, hence the result.
3. Did anyone else know about the time you were spending on this platform that you built? If not, why?
4. Did your manager tell you why you were rejected for promotion? Did s/he build a performance plan (the good kind) to ensure that you got the promo next time?
Switching companies is a solution, and you'll probably get paid more and perhaps receive a title upgrade, but not keeping these things in mind will limit or handicap your progress eventually. you want to vertically progress, not horizontally unless you REALLY like the space within which you're working (this post tells me that you're not).
Level 0: Work hard
Level 1: Learn to ask questions until you get a full answer. What are the true blocking points for promotion? What he told you was vaguery.
Level 2: Have an action plan worked out with your manager beforehand, so that the roadmap for promotion is scheduled with clear milestones. This way you can hold someone accountable before you make sacrifices.
Level 3: (long term career stuff)
Level 1: Learn to ask questions until you get a full answer. What are the true blocking points for promotion? What he told you was vaguery.
Level 2: Have an action plan worked out with your manager beforehand, so that the roadmap for promotion is scheduled with clear milestones. This way you can hold someone accountable before you make sacrifices.
Level 3: (long term career stuff)
If the promotion was for a manager role, it might simply be because "you get walked over by people".
Good developers rarely make managers unfortunately. While I don't have much info, it could simply be that your manager doesn't think you're fit or ready for a managerial position. And btw, there's nothing wrong with that.
Good developers rarely make managers unfortunately. While I don't have much info, it could simply be that your manager doesn't think you're fit or ready for a managerial position. And btw, there's nothing wrong with that.
One of the advantages of being an older developer is not only have we seen every technology coming and going - and have a deep understanding of what new tech is likely to stick around a while - but we've also seen every office politics scenario as well. We know the technology and we know the system.
If your manager says "That's not enough" and doesn't give you any more guidance it is time to find a new manager, either at that company or another one. What you need to be doing should not be a mystery.
Most people just act irrational and maybe can't really see how much you actually contribute to the organization. We humans are really biased when it comes to choices.
I would read these two books:
How to Win Friends and Influence People
Thinking Fast and Slow
I would read these two books:
How to Win Friends and Influence People
Thinking Fast and Slow
Seems like you didnt get the memo: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/
you are welcome
you are welcome
You need to quit. Get a new job immediately.
Either your work wasn't very good, in which case your manager should have told you before letting you spend a year doing things that way
Or your manager is taking advantage of you.
Either your work wasn't very good, in which case your manager should have told you before letting you spend a year doing things that way
Or your manager is taking advantage of you.
Your first mistake was believing effort has anything to do with success. Its all about who you know, not how hard you work.
Disclaimer, those who works hard and also know the right people can be successful
Disclaimer, those who works hard and also know the right people can be successful
[deleted]
Maybe try to raise the visibility of what you're working on? Did you ask where he felt you could work on?
Best thing you can do, is leave
Why is this flagged?
What you did wrong is exactly what so many do wrong: Your market worth is defined by your market worth, not by how much effort you put in.
Go out on the market. Update your resume, try to get an offer. Be ready to accept it. Negotiate with your manager and show them empirical evidence you're worth more.
The reason you have to be willing to accept the other offer is that the moment you approach your manager with it, they might decide to replace you rather than promote you. But counterintuitively, your willingness to accept the other offer will work in your favor and is more likely to get you promoted than replaced.
Do not under any circumstances assume that loyalty to your job will be rewarded in any way. The fact that your manager was willing to let you work 70 hour weeks for a year is evidence you were being taken advantage of. That's life, though. The way to win is to play the game.
(There are situations where letting an employee work 50+ hour weeks is justifiable, e.g. if the employee goes into it with eyes wide open and without any implicit promises of future promotion or future compensation increases. Quarterly reviews with salary increases would also take it out of the "being taken advantage of" category.)
As a final note, it's very common for employees to force themselves to work crazy hours without any encouragement from management. It's not necessarily management's job to stop you from doing that, though a good manager will. I did this to myself my first couple of jobs, and had only myself to blame. I'm not saying you necessarily were doing that, but it's such a common story for someone to come into the industry with something to prove and convince themselves to dedicate their life to their job to the exclusion of all else.
Go home each day after putting in 8 hours. The door's right there. If you work harder than that, you should feel like you're getting an excellent deal out of it. And no, promoting you doesn't automatically count as an excellent deal. You should still probably work 8 hours outside of very special situations.
EDIT: If you're feeling upset that you got taken advantage of, don't sweat it. A year isn't such a big deal in the scheme of things. You're far more equipped now for your upcoming years than one year ago, for example.
Go out on the market. Update your resume, try to get an offer. Be ready to accept it. Negotiate with your manager and show them empirical evidence you're worth more.
The reason you have to be willing to accept the other offer is that the moment you approach your manager with it, they might decide to replace you rather than promote you. But counterintuitively, your willingness to accept the other offer will work in your favor and is more likely to get you promoted than replaced.
Do not under any circumstances assume that loyalty to your job will be rewarded in any way. The fact that your manager was willing to let you work 70 hour weeks for a year is evidence you were being taken advantage of. That's life, though. The way to win is to play the game.
(There are situations where letting an employee work 50+ hour weeks is justifiable, e.g. if the employee goes into it with eyes wide open and without any implicit promises of future promotion or future compensation increases. Quarterly reviews with salary increases would also take it out of the "being taken advantage of" category.)
As a final note, it's very common for employees to force themselves to work crazy hours without any encouragement from management. It's not necessarily management's job to stop you from doing that, though a good manager will. I did this to myself my first couple of jobs, and had only myself to blame. I'm not saying you necessarily were doing that, but it's such a common story for someone to come into the industry with something to prove and convince themselves to dedicate their life to their job to the exclusion of all else.
Go home each day after putting in 8 hours. The door's right there. If you work harder than that, you should feel like you're getting an excellent deal out of it. And no, promoting you doesn't automatically count as an excellent deal. You should still probably work 8 hours outside of very special situations.
EDIT: If you're feeling upset that you got taken advantage of, don't sweat it. A year isn't such a big deal in the scheme of things. You're far more equipped now for your upcoming years than one year ago, for example.
When I was a young chicken, I thought all I had to do was work hard and I would be appreciated and promoted. This was 20+ years ago and it was no truer then than it is today.
Know your worth. You need to calculate in your head how much you save the company through automation and take it back to the pen / paper and filing cabinet days. It's probably in the hundreds of thousands a year. If a company is expecting you to kill yourself, it's because of their screw up. The guy asking you will take the credit for the miracle you provided because of his excellent management skills.
The OP should take that as the slap in the face that it is and move on to a company that is more appreciative of his skills.
Also, don't work for cheap, it dilutes the craft.
Know your worth. You need to calculate in your head how much you save the company through automation and take it back to the pen / paper and filing cabinet days. It's probably in the hundreds of thousands a year. If a company is expecting you to kill yourself, it's because of their screw up. The guy asking you will take the credit for the miracle you provided because of his excellent management skills.
The OP should take that as the slap in the face that it is and move on to a company that is more appreciative of his skills.
Also, don't work for cheap, it dilutes the craft.
There is also a possibility that the manager would convince the employee to stay, and even give promotion, while behind the scenes start a replacement process, so that in a few weeks when the employee has rejected the other offer, he/she is fired from this company too.
I wonder if there's a way to protect against that.
I wonder if there's a way to protect against that.
There is. You should try to see through what the manager has in plan. If its a case of negotiation it might work.
But if you are nothing more than a work donkey to him, and he likely has other pets at office who will receive his favors regardless, just take the new offer and leave.
But if you are nothing more than a work donkey to him, and he likely has other pets at office who will receive his favors regardless, just take the new offer and leave.
That's absolutely insane. I would be expecting that only from the most depraved workplaces. How often does something like that happen?
Regularly. Never to me, but I've watched it be done to others.
Just out of spite? Is there any business advantage?
I was with you until you said negotiate with the current manager. Unless OP came up with this 70 hour a week thing all on his or her own, his or her manager had some hand in leading OP to believe that delivering this platform (or whatever) would get the promotion OP wants. One of the most basic responsibilities a manager has to a report is managing the report's career, ie what work merits a promotion. So either OP made some stuff up entirely in OP's head with no input from OP's manager (bad, a manager should be proactively discussing this) or OP's manager led OP astray (really bad).
Either way, I'd suggest rolling the dice and starting over elsewhere. And this time, OP needs to be really clear with the new manager on what OP wants and what work or deliverables gets OP there.
Either way, I'd suggest rolling the dice and starting over elsewhere. And this time, OP needs to be really clear with the new manager on what OP wants and what work or deliverables gets OP there.
>>And this time, be really clear with your new manager on what you want and what work or deliverables get you there.
In many cases even this doesn't work. That is unfortunately how toxic politics really is. Politics is an art of manipulating people and deceiving them into doing things.
In the case you mentioned, its possible that the manager will agree for the deliverables on hand. When the time for reward comes, they will simply say there were other contenders and delivered more than you did. You can't argue much from there, because they will start throwing in the 'confidentiality' card saying "You don't know how much more the other guy delivered".
Its always easy to say this because you don't have any way of verifying it. And calling their BS on their face means permanently damaging your relationship. Then you have no option but to leave.
In short: If you have this kind of a manager, stop fighting the system, just leave.
In many cases even this doesn't work. That is unfortunately how toxic politics really is. Politics is an art of manipulating people and deceiving them into doing things.
In the case you mentioned, its possible that the manager will agree for the deliverables on hand. When the time for reward comes, they will simply say there were other contenders and delivered more than you did. You can't argue much from there, because they will start throwing in the 'confidentiality' card saying "You don't know how much more the other guy delivered".
Its always easy to say this because you don't have any way of verifying it. And calling their BS on their face means permanently damaging your relationship. Then you have no option but to leave.
In short: If you have this kind of a manager, stop fighting the system, just leave.
Unfortunately it's possible that they did indeed decide to work 70 hour weeks. I made that mistake early in my career.
You're right that if they were pushing him to work these insane hours for months then it's time to politely part ways. Such abuse was common in the gamedev industry: http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/
You're right that if they were pushing him to work these insane hours for months then it's time to politely part ways. Such abuse was common in the gamedev industry: http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/
but it is entirely possible that OP worked on this after hours without their manager ever knowing or masking their real work with this work. i've met MANY engineers that gladly volunteered several hours after work on things they felt were important for their team or company. That's fine and all, but if there wasn't a conversation beforehand that expressed a need for that work, then the risk of those hours being for naught is high.
This is really excellent advice. Too many people work too hard for too long before learning this the hard way.
By all means do a good job, but don't kill yourself. Your employer will not do the same for you.
By all means do a good job, but don't kill yourself. Your employer will not do the same for you.
Recommend that you don't attempt to stay; you should clearly move.
Never take a promotion offered to convince you to stay.
Never take a promotion offered to convince you to stay.
Yeah that's more my line of thinking.
Have a job ready but ask for a promotion without revealing that you have an offer. If they promote, great. If they don't, just leave. If they delay or waffle over the decision, leave. The delay tactics are to pressure the employee psychologically to reveal that he/she has an offer and needs to know about a promotion decision by such and such date.
Also it's a good idea to do this around the time of the company's annual review/promotion period (it's not easy to have perfect timing but good to try).
Have a job ready but ask for a promotion without revealing that you have an offer. If they promote, great. If they don't, just leave. If they delay or waffle over the decision, leave. The delay tactics are to pressure the employee psychologically to reveal that he/she has an offer and needs to know about a promotion decision by such and such date.
Also it's a good idea to do this around the time of the company's annual review/promotion period (it's not easy to have perfect timing but good to try).
The only thing I can say to that is that you can likely get a job at a company that doesn't have an annual moment where reviews and promotions are carried out. That is actually bonkers and once you've broken free you'll look back and wonder why "the time where you either get a promotion or not" ever seemed sane. :)
I'm really excited for you.
I'm really excited for you.
While I think there is more that OP could have done to demonstrate value, I agree that interviewing and assessing your worth against the market is critical. If salary is a factor for you, it can be the difference between a $5,000 increase in pay vs a $25,000 increase.
I’ve been in this situation. You should leave and get a pay raise that way. Next time when aiming for a promo remember that results alone won’t get you there. You have to fiercely and constantly beat your chest about your achievements, and “show leadership”, and once you become perceived as valuable, diplomatically let management know that you have much better gigs lined up. It sucks, and I wish it wasn’t this way, but that’s how it is.
That said, by far the most efficient way to progress in your career is to not let your employers take you for granted by changing jobs every 2 years or so unless things are seriously on fire.
Another bit of advice: do not work much more than 40 hours a week on a sustained basis. Over my 20 year career I have observed negative correlation between that and promotions.
That said, by far the most efficient way to progress in your career is to not let your employers take you for granted by changing jobs every 2 years or so unless things are seriously on fire.
Another bit of advice: do not work much more than 40 hours a week on a sustained basis. Over my 20 year career I have observed negative correlation between that and promotions.
>Another bit of advice: do not work much more than 40 hours a week on a sustained basis. Over my 20 year career I have observed negative correlation between that and promotions.
Isn't that a strange twist of human nature in the US workplace? The harder you work, the less respected you are. It's absolutely true though.
Isn't that a strange twist of human nature in the US workplace? The harder you work, the less respected you are. It's absolutely true though.
People who work 70 hours a week on a sustained basis are just bad at saying "no". Not saying "no" often is the surest way I know of to disappoint all those people you're saying "yes" to. People's attention span to things that are peripheral to them is very short, so no amount of commitment is ever enough, and you have to deliver (most of) the things you have signed up for.
You can't do that if you bite of more than you can chew. You _can_ do that if you manage your time properly and say "no" often. That way you have some slack to recover if things go wrong, and deliver on your commitments.
You can't do that if you bite of more than you can chew. You _can_ do that if you manage your time properly and say "no" often. That way you have some slack to recover if things go wrong, and deliver on your commitments.
... and even if you deliver 100% of your 175% commitment, I have a somewhat dark and cynical hypothesis that the manager may secretly feel guilty about overworking you and resolve this guilt by downplaying your achievements.
Merely feeling or behaving like a doormat for no reason will make many people around uneasy. Any situation that shows you somehow deserve it, relieves them. If they aren't self-aware enough to recognize this, congratulations, you are training them to exploit you.
Merely feeling or behaving like a doormat for no reason will make many people around uneasy. Any situation that shows you somehow deserve it, relieves them. If they aren't self-aware enough to recognize this, congratulations, you are training them to exploit you.
I suppose working longer doesn't mean working harder. And it could set a bad example to colleagues who feel they now have to work longer. This then causes bad morale, and if you're seen as causing bad morale then perhaps a promotion won't happen.
Start looking out for people. Think of the group rather than yourself.
Start looking out for people. Think of the group rather than yourself.
Cut down to working around 30 hours a week, ya goof
Stop letting people walk all over you and say no.
How do you navigate workplace politics and getting ahead in the career? Changing job is one option but how long I can keep running from situation? Also,given the state of technical interview and irrationality to ask any irrelevant question, I don't know if I wanna go through it again anytime soon.
What do I need to do to move ahead and up in the career?