Hacker News News Feed for the Mac Touch Bar(github.com)
github.com
Hacker News News Feed for the Mac Touch Bar
https://github.com/mrmekon/toucHNews
152 comments
It should be still rewritten in rust.
What? Cocoa, or toucHNews?
It was just a meta joke :) I hope it can be tolerated.
That's basically what Objective-C code looks like when desugared to C.
Yes, I know that–that's why I'm surprised anyone would go the trouble to write code that way.
This is definitely interesting and well excuted, but there are two problems which prevent me from using this regularly. These are, of course, just my opinions and I completely understand that others may disagree:
Firstly, the interaction paradigm doesn't really make sense. Swiping should advance / go back, not open or hide, and tapping on the headline should open the link in the browser. The headlines should automatically cycle through with a customisable delay, or work like a scrolling ticker system.
Secondly, there's no way to view the HN comments on any given article, since swiping takes you directly to the article. If I read an article linked on HN while I'm browsing here, I am invariably more interested in the discussion surrounding it than the article itself. Ideally, tapping the headline would open the comments on HN, and I could then open the link to the article myself if I choose to. Alternatively, a short press could open the article, and a long press could open the comments, or something like that.
Overall, I really like the concept, and I especially like the fact that it turns the Touch Bar into something actually useful for a change, but I can't see myself using this app without the above changes.
EDIT: I don't seem to be able to quit the app, either. I had to kill the process since tapping on the "x" button didn't do anything.
Firstly, the interaction paradigm doesn't really make sense. Swiping should advance / go back, not open or hide, and tapping on the headline should open the link in the browser. The headlines should automatically cycle through with a customisable delay, or work like a scrolling ticker system.
Secondly, there's no way to view the HN comments on any given article, since swiping takes you directly to the article. If I read an article linked on HN while I'm browsing here, I am invariably more interested in the discussion surrounding it than the article itself. Ideally, tapping the headline would open the comments on HN, and I could then open the link to the article myself if I choose to. Alternatively, a short press could open the article, and a long press could open the comments, or something like that.
Overall, I really like the concept, and I especially like the fact that it turns the Touch Bar into something actually useful for a change, but I can't see myself using this app without the above changes.
EDIT: I don't seem to be able to quit the app, either. I had to kill the process since tapping on the "x" button didn't do anything.
I love my MBP, I think its the best yet.
But the touch bar is pretty pointless, I would rather have just paid less money or gotten better hardware.
Maybe if I use an app that uses it effectively my opinion will change.
But the touch bar is pretty pointless, I would rather have just paid less money or gotten better hardware.
Maybe if I use an app that uses it effectively my opinion will change.
I have a feeling the touch-bar is part of Apple's strategy to slowly convert keyboards into touch-screens for their desktops and notebooks. They're doing it a lot more carefully than on the phone where they could jump all-in.
If they can improve the haptic feel of it by iterating on a less-critical portion of the keyboard and show people what a more adaptable layout can do, maybe they'll be able to produce a touch-screen keyboard most people want.
If they can improve the haptic feel of it by iterating on a less-critical portion of the keyboard and show people what a more adaptable layout can do, maybe they'll be able to produce a touch-screen keyboard most people want.
I have the 2017 touchbar rMBP as well. I've found BetterTouchTool useful for customizing it with various scripts (displaying Spotify currently playing, for instance).
I guess it's not so much the touch bar itself but the lack of function keys which still throws me off. Thankfully I use an external keyboard for when I need that row...
> But the touch bar is pretty pointless, I would rather have just paid less money or gotten better hardware.
The audience for the touch bar is people who look at their keyboard and/or take their hand off the keyboard frequently (e.g. to use a mouse). Come to think of it, the touchbar is probably best considered a mouse+menu accelerator.
As for you, the touchbar is pointless for me, but that's simply because its physical affordances are completely and inherently outside my model of use. I don't want my gaze off the screen and I don't want my hands off the core keyboard. We are likely in the minority.
The audience for the touch bar is people who look at their keyboard and/or take their hand off the keyboard frequently (e.g. to use a mouse). Come to think of it, the touchbar is probably best considered a mouse+menu accelerator.
As for you, the touchbar is pointless for me, but that's simply because its physical affordances are completely and inherently outside my model of use. I don't want my gaze off the screen and I don't want my hands off the core keyboard. We are likely in the minority.
[deleted]
Apparently there's touch bar support in the Mac emacs branch
Interesting! Got a link for this? I haven't been able to find anything yet. Edit: don't tell me I missed the sarcasm!
It was just a tweet I saw. The port of Emacs in question is this one: https://bitbucket.org/mituharu/emacs-mac/overview
If they wanted the top row to be flexible, I would have prefered individual keys with an eink-style surface that could change, but would look completely normal otherwise.
It would be nice if it were like the Optimus keyboard [1], but I understand why they didn't do it. I would remove a lot of flexibility for sliders and variable size keys.
[1] http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/
[1] http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/
It would also cost a lot more.
You can have sliders in the touchbar that you can't have with e-ink keys.
The bar would be perfect for adjusting volume and brightness if Apple decided to remove the awful indicator pop-up in the monitor.
The bar would be perfect for adjusting volume and brightness if Apple decided to remove the awful indicator pop-up in the monitor.
Do the sliders actually work better than the keys?
Currently I can adjust my volume with my eyes closed in bed at night when listening to a podcast because it's the second key from the top right of the keyboard.
Currently I can adjust my volume with my eyes closed in bed at night when listening to a podcast because it's the second key from the top right of the keyboard.
Yup. Not only you can do it with your eyes closed, you can also easily go all the way up or down quickly, and it's more granular than button controls.
I generally despise button controls for things that could be continuous. I hated it when they replaced the volume control in many car radios (http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/radio-volume-picture-id1...).
I generally despise button controls for things that could be continuous. I hated it when they replaced the volume control in many car radios (http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/radio-volume-picture-id1...).
For what it's worth, Apple was rumored to be buying this [1] company, who purports to have built an e-ink keyboard with relatively normal chicklet style keys.
[1] https://sonderdesign.com/
[1] https://sonderdesign.com/
I don't actually have a touch bar to try this out, but the UI controls seem a little non-intuitive to me. Wouldn't it make more sense to tap to open and swipe to advance to next item? Those are pretty standard interactions.
Without auto scrolling through the headlines, this is kind of useless in my opinion.
And clicking the X on the right doesn't quit 0.3.1 for me, I installed the prebuilt package, had to SIGKILL the thing.
TouchBar Piano retains the crown as basically the only good TouchBar app. Which says all you really need to know about the TouchBar.
And clicking the X on the right doesn't quit 0.3.1 for me, I installed the prebuilt package, had to SIGKILL the thing.
TouchBar Piano retains the crown as basically the only good TouchBar app. Which says all you really need to know about the TouchBar.
Is there any touchbar app that just shows configurable buttons that you can use for performing certain functions?
Anyone who has the new model w/ Touch Bar can comment on the usefulness of it, now that it's been out for a while? Do you ever used it / still use it daily?
I got a MBP this last refresh. I'm a programmer.
Touch Bar is a nice incremental advance. Not having a physical ESC key is not as bothersome as I expected. In fact, I don't notice it at all. Disclaimer: I don't use vi.
I like the media control modes, and am looking forward to content creation apps (ex: Ableton) making use of it.
I'd be sad if it were taken away, but it wouldn't prevent me from getting work done. It's a nice-to-have extra.
Also, the new keyboard is fantastic. I love the keys, and my external keyboard is now a buzzkill and I can't wait for Apple to refresh the Magic Keyboard with the new switches.
I have never accidentally hit the touch bar.
Touch Bar is a nice incremental advance. Not having a physical ESC key is not as bothersome as I expected. In fact, I don't notice it at all. Disclaimer: I don't use vi.
I like the media control modes, and am looking forward to content creation apps (ex: Ableton) making use of it.
I'd be sad if it were taken away, but it wouldn't prevent me from getting work done. It's a nice-to-have extra.
Also, the new keyboard is fantastic. I love the keys, and my external keyboard is now a buzzkill and I can't wait for Apple to refresh the Magic Keyboard with the new switches.
I have never accidentally hit the touch bar.
Completely agree.
There are still times when the brightness or volume slider gets stuck on screen and have to wait a while for it to reset. Thought it would be fixed in the refresh
One thing which annoys me is the empty space to the left of the esc key in the touch bar.
There are still times when the brightness or volume slider gets stuck on screen and have to wait a while for it to reset. Thought it would be fixed in the refresh
One thing which annoys me is the empty space to the left of the esc key in the touch bar.
You can quickly switch to another app (or desktop) to “fix” that issue.
The space left to the esc key can also be touched right? I just use my capslock as esc key, I like it even more that way than in the default position.
The space left to the esc key can also be touched right? I just use my capslock as esc key, I like it even more that way than in the default position.
Who the hell uses Esc for Vi(m)? On modern keyboards Esc is too far from home row. Ctrl-[ is much better.
The Magic Keyboard does have the new switches, or at least the first generation butterfly switches that the first generation MacBook had. Also, there is more key travel on the Magic Keyboard than on the MacBook or the MacBook Pro.
The shorter key travel is what I like, so I'll probably hold out for a further refresh.
I can echo almost all of these sentiments. (I also bought a MBP this last refresh, and am also a programmer.)
I was a little worried about not having a physical esc key, but it's been totally fine. I don't even notice it's gone, and I use the escape key a lot. That said, I don't love the Touch Bar, but for the most part it's fine. I still don't think to use it most of the time, but am slowly starting to remember it's there. (I use an older MBP at work, so I only use my TouchBar MPB on weekends.)
I also agree that the new keyboard is great. I don't love the oversized trackpad, but I think my main issue is going back and forth between the new one and the one on my 2014 MBP.
I was a little worried about not having a physical esc key, but it's been totally fine. I don't even notice it's gone, and I use the escape key a lot. That said, I don't love the Touch Bar, but for the most part it's fine. I still don't think to use it most of the time, but am slowly starting to remember it's there. (I use an older MBP at work, so I only use my TouchBar MPB on weekends.)
I also agree that the new keyboard is great. I don't love the oversized trackpad, but I think my main issue is going back and forth between the new one and the one on my 2014 MBP.
Are you able to use the arrow keys? From what I've heard, most people have a problem with them.
I think I could get used the keyboard overall, but the arrow keys (with full-height left/right keys) were a complete no-go. There's so little space between each key I found it impossible to position my hand over the arrows properly.
I was completely ready to buy a new MBP but those arrow keys put an immediate end to that thought.
I think I could get used the keyboard overall, but the arrow keys (with full-height left/right keys) were a complete no-go. There's so little space between each key I found it impossible to position my hand over the arrows properly.
I was completely ready to buy a new MBP but those arrow keys put an immediate end to that thought.
I've been using it for a month and I often hit the up arrow when I want to press down. It's strange as I have used SP3 keyboard for a while now before where the up and down arrow keys are half sized without issues. I think I'll get used to it and don't think it's a deal breaker
That's my only major complaint.
I've had this laptop for 9 months and I still hit the wrong keys every other time. It's very frustrating.
I've had this laptop for 9 months and I still hit the wrong keys every other time. It's very frustrating.
No problem at all with the arrow keys - only took a couple hours to get used to. I also was unsure about them on first sight, but all is well. Haven't played games with them, though.
I run architecture software on Windows and Mac on my MBP.
On software that supports it I use it and vastly prefer it to F-keys. For instance, I never remember the F-key shortcuts for AutoCAD. In the macOS version, with icons on the Touch Bar, I use them all the time and it's fantastic. For system shortcuts, I find it about the same as using the F-keys on the previous model.
On Windows, I frequently brush by the Touch Bar when entering numbers (for dimensions) and pressing escape to cancel commands. Even the side of a finger is enough to trigger a shortcut, unlike a physical key that requires some amount of force directed downward. This is quite frustrating and likely a real productivity loss with no real gain for software that just shows standard F-keys. I should re-map my caps lock key but I need to switch between camel case for naming objects and all-caps for notes frequently.
I hope that I can eventually customize the bar in BootCamp and then it will be a mild improvement over the old way but neutral-to-negative unless you're in macOS on supported software only and then if you don't already have muscle memory for the shortcuts.
On software that supports it I use it and vastly prefer it to F-keys. For instance, I never remember the F-key shortcuts for AutoCAD. In the macOS version, with icons on the Touch Bar, I use them all the time and it's fantastic. For system shortcuts, I find it about the same as using the F-keys on the previous model.
On Windows, I frequently brush by the Touch Bar when entering numbers (for dimensions) and pressing escape to cancel commands. Even the side of a finger is enough to trigger a shortcut, unlike a physical key that requires some amount of force directed downward. This is quite frustrating and likely a real productivity loss with no real gain for software that just shows standard F-keys. I should re-map my caps lock key but I need to switch between camel case for naming objects and all-caps for notes frequently.
I hope that I can eventually customize the bar in BootCamp and then it will be a mild improvement over the old way but neutral-to-negative unless you're in macOS on supported software only and then if you don't already have muscle memory for the shortcuts.
I'm a developer and one of my work laptops is a MBP 13 inch w/ touchbar. I wasn't a huge Apple fan to begin with, but I used one of the last gen 17 inch MBP's for work, for about 2 years and liked it mostly because of the excellent hardware, specifically the keyboard and trackpad.
The new keyboard is absolutely terrible though. Genuinely the second worst keyboard I've ever used. The new switches have caused dramatically more typing errors for me. I thought it might decrease over time, but after 60 days with it as my daily driver I've seen no improvement. It's an odd feeling when I'd rather use a generic HP desktop keyboard over the Apple keyboard.
I tried to keep an open mind with respect to the touchbar, but so far I haven't found a reason to like it. I will say that trying to use Vi is an exercise in futility if you don't remap the ESC key. It probably wouldn't bother me so much if I didn't feel like it's just sitting there using battery power unnecessarily.
Hopefully others have had a better experience.
The new keyboard is absolutely terrible though. Genuinely the second worst keyboard I've ever used. The new switches have caused dramatically more typing errors for me. I thought it might decrease over time, but after 60 days with it as my daily driver I've seen no improvement. It's an odd feeling when I'd rather use a generic HP desktop keyboard over the Apple keyboard.
I tried to keep an open mind with respect to the touchbar, but so far I haven't found a reason to like it. I will say that trying to use Vi is an exercise in futility if you don't remap the ESC key. It probably wouldn't bother me so much if I didn't feel like it's just sitting there using battery power unnecessarily.
Hopefully others have had a better experience.
Are you sure it's the switches? Did you move from a 17 inch to a 13 inch? I'd think that would contribute more to your troubles. Is the layout/key density significantly different?
I went from 15' MBP (2008) to 15' rMBP (2012) to the current gen 15' MBP. I've used the new keyboard for about 3 months, and can unequivocally say it's the worst I've ever used. I now carry an external keyboard with me everywhere I go.
edit : downvotes won't change my opinion
edit : downvotes won't change my opinion
Yeah, it's definitely the switches. The spacing is perfectly fine honestly.
The keyboard is... different. I would recommend anyone try it out at an Apple store before buying, absolutely. I actually love it.
I've had mine for 9 months and on the whole I feel like I'm a bit faster typing than my previous MBP although I haven't actually instrumented that.
One thing I find is the keyswitches do seem to collect bits of dirt/crumbs and the like around the edges, and when that happens some become a bit sticky or dead feeling which definitely leads to typing issues. I give mine a good cleaning on a weekly basis with eyeglass cleaner wipes - I turn it off and rub vigorously over the keys. To really get the junk off around the key edges it can take a few passes, and when done well it feels like new.
One thing I find is the keyswitches do seem to collect bits of dirt/crumbs and the like around the edges, and when that happens some become a bit sticky or dead feeling which definitely leads to typing issues. I give mine a good cleaning on a weekly basis with eyeglass cleaner wipes - I turn it off and rub vigorously over the keys. To really get the junk off around the key edges it can take a few passes, and when done well it feels like new.
I have one for work and absolutely hate it. No tactile feedback at all, so it's easy to mis-hit a key. I also echo the guy who said he accidentally hits Siri now because of it. It happened to me A LOT until I realized you can change what shows on it by default. Now I keep mine with expanded controls at all time. It's still annoying because I have to look down to be able to press the right key. I prefer having physical buttons.
EDIT: ALSO the keyboard itself is AWFUL. The absolute WORST keyboard I've ever used. It's terrible to get stuck typing on.
EDIT: ALSO the keyboard itself is AWFUL. The absolute WORST keyboard I've ever used. It's terrible to get stuck typing on.
I felt the same way about the new butterfly keys for the first 15 minutes or so, but very quickly got a feel for them and now I prefer them to the keys on my mid-2012 MBP.
I quite like the click sound they make too, it's mechanical and satisfying, although it's a little loud for quiet situations like libraries etc.
I quite like the click sound they make too, it's mechanical and satisfying, although it's a little loud for quiet situations like libraries etc.
"stuck" -> The tiniest bits of dust or crumbs makes keys still and not work. It's super annoying to blow on the keyboard to try to get a key to start working again.
According the ATP.fm the only safe way to clean the dust out of it is to take it to an Apple store. You can easily destroy the mechanism if you manage to pry the keys off.
I imagine this will be fixed in the next iteration though.
I imagine this will be fixed in the next iteration though.
I was issued a new gen MBP at work and have been supremely disappointed. The touch bar is (to me) a useless anti-feature, and am also completely dissatisfied with the new keyboard (reduced tactility across the board, varying tactility from key to key, a loud static noise emitted from the keys when the machine heats up, etc).
I went so far as to try to return this thing, but my employer wasn't willing to indulge me. The GPU upgrade and smaller form factor, to me, aren't worth the sub-par keyboard. If they allowed for more than 16GB of RAM the new models might be worthwhile, but as it stands I definitely do not recommend it as a work machine.
I went so far as to try to return this thing, but my employer wasn't willing to indulge me. The GPU upgrade and smaller form factor, to me, aren't worth the sub-par keyboard. If they allowed for more than 16GB of RAM the new models might be worthwhile, but as it stands I definitely do not recommend it as a work machine.
I've had a MacBook Pro w/Touch Bar since Dec 2016, and the touch bar has mostly gone unused by me other than the core functions (changing brightness, volume, and ESC and function keys).
The only thing I've used on the TouchBar that I did find very useful was scrubbing in QuickTime when the video is fullscreen.
Still, I would have much rather had a the best spec'd 2016 MacBook Pro wo/TouchBar and physical function and ESC keys.
Edit - And for the record, I love the keyboard over my Mid-2012 MacBook Pro keyboard. No complaints there.
The only thing I've used on the TouchBar that I did find very useful was scrubbing in QuickTime when the video is fullscreen.
Still, I would have much rather had a the best spec'd 2016 MacBook Pro wo/TouchBar and physical function and ESC keys.
Edit - And for the record, I love the keyboard over my Mid-2012 MacBook Pro keyboard. No complaints there.
I had it on for a day and the constant context switching was annoying. I flipped the setting back so that the default toolbar (volume, esc, brightness etc) is always displayed.
I still don't like it at all. I'll sometimes look up while thinking and one of my fingers will accidentally be resting on the brightness dimmer. I'll look back down and my screen is black and I'm like WTF??! Only to realize where my finger was with no feedback I had done so.
I wish the touch bar would go away.
I still don't like it at all. I'll sometimes look up while thinking and one of my fingers will accidentally be resting on the brightness dimmer. I'll look back down and my screen is black and I'm like WTF??! Only to realize where my finger was with no feedback I had done so.
I wish the touch bar would go away.
My work laptop has it, and I'm resoundingly neutral. I think it was a mistake not to give it a genuine hardware escape key, especially since there's dead space to the left of the actual display where you could actually put something like, I don't know, A HARDWARE ESCAPE KEY. But beyond that, I think the hate directed at it is way blown out of proportion. Maybe other writers/developers need actual physical function keys all the time and will go bananas without them, but I've found that in practice, I just don't. I'm a touch typist on the actual alphanumeric keyboard, but have never been able to hit media keys and function keys without looking down anyway, so I don't feel any substantial rage that I have to look down to use the volume or brightness slider. I kinda like the emoji bar, on the rare occasion I use emoji. It's kind of neat to get a terminal that has both option and meta available instead of either/or, and I admit I use the man page button when I remember it's a thing. And, of course, if I hold down FN, I get all my function keys back anyway -- which is how I've had things set with the hardware function key row for the last few years (other keys by default, FN to access F1-F12), so in practice, there's no significant change for me. (And you can set it so it displays F1-F12 by default and does the touch bar woo woo stuff when you hold down FN.)
Having said all that, I'm neutral because it hasn't sold me as being a "must have" feature that's worth the ~$200 premium. I bought a MacBook Pro earlier this year, post-Touch Bar, and bought one of the lower-end 13" ones with the actual function keys.
Having said all that, I'm neutral because it hasn't sold me as being a "must have" feature that's worth the ~$200 premium. I bought a MacBook Pro earlier this year, post-Touch Bar, and bought one of the lower-end 13" ones with the actual function keys.
FWIW that "dead space" actually acts just like the esc key, so it's not truly dead.
Worse than useless. Adds no value and sometimes it crashes.
Debating whether to buy this model or stay away.
How do you ESC when this thing crashes?
How do you ESC when this thing crashes?
I have had one since launch and it has never crashed, that said I use caps lock as a second escape key anyway (an option available in the standard settings app)
I've been using one since October, only seen one crash.
I remapped Caps Lock to Escape a few months before getting it so I'd have plenty of time to adjust. There's a setting for that in System Preferences.
I remapped Caps Lock to Escape a few months before getting it so I'd have plenty of time to adjust. There's a setting for that in System Preferences.
The crash takes the form of it locking up. This is particularly annoying when you need to turn the volume down.
Clicking on another app usually unlocks it.
Clicking on another app usually unlocks it.
You don't. It doesn't happen often, but it is frustrating. Each time it eventually rebooted on its own.
The Touch Bar is the reason I didn't buy a new MacBook and went with an XPS instead. As a hardcore vi/vim person, there's no way I'm going to use it, period. Why didn't Apple offer a plain keyboard as an option on the higher-end MBPs at least?
I've been using a 15" tMBP for around 8 months now and although I don't miss the function keys one bit, I'm yet to have an experience with the Touch Bar that makes me go "oh, now I get it."
Changing the volume and brightness by pressing and holding the relevant icon and sliding is nice, but that's literally all I've ever really had to use the Touch Bar for.
I'm not looking at the keyboard while I type and therefore am never going to see or use the auto-suggest dictionary thing it does when you're filling in text fields, nor am I ever inclined to use emoji, so that Touch Bar feature is essentially invisible to me.
Apps which integrate the Touch Bar in some way are only ever replicating functionality that already exists in the app itself, and so there's no real impetus to use the Touch Bar if you're already familiar with that app.
I feel like there's something missing here, that the Touch Bar's killer feature just hasn't been presented to me yet. I don't have a suggestion for what that killer feature might be, but I expect that as time goes by and the Touch Bar becomes more prevalent, developers will start thinking about unique and innovative ways to incorporate it.
Changing the volume and brightness by pressing and holding the relevant icon and sliding is nice, but that's literally all I've ever really had to use the Touch Bar for.
I'm not looking at the keyboard while I type and therefore am never going to see or use the auto-suggest dictionary thing it does when you're filling in text fields, nor am I ever inclined to use emoji, so that Touch Bar feature is essentially invisible to me.
Apps which integrate the Touch Bar in some way are only ever replicating functionality that already exists in the app itself, and so there's no real impetus to use the Touch Bar if you're already familiar with that app.
I feel like there's something missing here, that the Touch Bar's killer feature just hasn't been presented to me yet. I don't have a suggestion for what that killer feature might be, but I expect that as time goes by and the Touch Bar becomes more prevalent, developers will start thinking about unique and innovative ways to incorporate it.
I use an external keyboard most of the time, so the TB goes unused.
I've customised it with BetterTouchTool so at least I have some useful shortcuts the few times I'm on the road, but I wouldn't cry if it went away. It's one of those things I would have loved when I was 16, but grown-up me doesn't see much value in it. The fact that I cannot reliably reach a button without looking at it, basically disqualifies it for any keyboard poweruser, I think.
Touch-ID addition is wonderful, no complaints there (beyond a bit of extra paranoia).
The rest of the keyboard is a love-hate thing. I find myself banging on it, the travel is really short, especially for people using mechanical or simil-mechanical keyboards; and it's pretty noisy compared to the previous one. I also hate the collapsed arrow keys.
To be honest I bought this MBP only because I found it uber-discounted in Japan. The power upgrade is nice, but everything else (the TB, the dongles, even the outsized trackpad) is change for change's sake, and it makes the experience overall worse compared to the previous model, IMHO.
I've customised it with BetterTouchTool so at least I have some useful shortcuts the few times I'm on the road, but I wouldn't cry if it went away. It's one of those things I would have loved when I was 16, but grown-up me doesn't see much value in it. The fact that I cannot reliably reach a button without looking at it, basically disqualifies it for any keyboard poweruser, I think.
Touch-ID addition is wonderful, no complaints there (beyond a bit of extra paranoia).
The rest of the keyboard is a love-hate thing. I find myself banging on it, the travel is really short, especially for people using mechanical or simil-mechanical keyboards; and it's pretty noisy compared to the previous one. I also hate the collapsed arrow keys.
To be honest I bought this MBP only because I found it uber-discounted in Japan. The power upgrade is nice, but everything else (the TB, the dongles, even the outsized trackpad) is change for change's sake, and it makes the experience overall worse compared to the previous model, IMHO.
I use it all the time, the volume / brightness sliders work really well
The problem is that most apps displays things in the Touch Bar that are already visible / accessible on the screen via mouse.
It also gets rid of F-keys which makes it really hard to use a lot of shortcuts in my IDE (because I have to look down to see where the F-key is)
The Touch Bar would be more useful if it was used to make features discoverable that aren't already on the screen.
It also gets rid of F-keys which makes it really hard to use a lot of shortcuts in my IDE (because I have to look down to see where the F-key is)
The Touch Bar would be more useful if it was used to make features discoverable that aren't already on the screen.
I find it quite usefull at times. One thing I really like are the settings you get while taking a screenshot, when you press the shortcut for the area screenshot tool you have the option to change the destination or copy it to clipboard, you can also change it to another tool. I’m not sure if that was possible before.
Not really the touch bar, but Touch ID + 1Password is really nice!
Since they added the unlock with Watch feature, 1Password is the only thing I use Touch ID for (other than the occasional install prompt that requires admin access). (https://github.com/mattrajca/sudo-touchid looks interesting however)
Dev here: I've had the MBP w/ Touch Bar for about 3 months now.
* For 2 of those months, I did not know I could customize the touchbar and kept hitting siri. Kinda annoying.
* I thought I would hate not having a ESC key, turns out it's not so bad. I'm able to hit it precisely the only problem is that it doesn't have any feedback. If the on screen interaction is too subtle then you have no idea if you've hit it or not. Just a little vibrate would be great, like android capacitive buttons.
Overall I neither hate it nor like it. It's cool, I guess. I like being able to customize it and more finely control my music. TouchID great too not sure that counts as the touchbar. I don't /need it/ in my next machine nor will I seek it out.
* For 2 of those months, I did not know I could customize the touchbar and kept hitting siri. Kinda annoying.
* I thought I would hate not having a ESC key, turns out it's not so bad. I'm able to hit it precisely the only problem is that it doesn't have any feedback. If the on screen interaction is too subtle then you have no idea if you've hit it or not. Just a little vibrate would be great, like android capacitive buttons.
Overall I neither hate it nor like it. It's cool, I guess. I like being able to customize it and more finely control my music. TouchID great too not sure that counts as the touchbar. I don't /need it/ in my next machine nor will I seek it out.
I bet you'll get dramatically different opinions based upon people who bought it themselves or had work buy it for them. Former have to self justify cost, latter don't.
I am one of latter. The touch bar is garbage. It is less accurate and takes longer than the old media. I rarely use it. I use emaca - try hitting meta-f a few times in a row and tell me that getting rid of the ESC key is not annoying
The new keyboard is garbage. I occasionally open my previous mac and I really miss the keyboard. I have a maxed-out MacBook Pro 15" touch bar. Apple has really screwed up its human interfaces.
I am one of latter. The touch bar is garbage. It is less accurate and takes longer than the old media. I rarely use it. I use emaca - try hitting meta-f a few times in a row and tell me that getting rid of the ESC key is not annoying
The new keyboard is garbage. I occasionally open my previous mac and I really miss the keyboard. I have a maxed-out MacBook Pro 15" touch bar. Apple has really screwed up its human interfaces.
> Former have to self justify cost
I spent the extra $200 to get four (vs two) Thunderbolt ports, not so much for the Touch Bar.
I spent the extra $200 to get four (vs two) Thunderbolt ports, not so much for the Touch Bar.
That's quite fair. I should have stated I was considering the 15" model. $200 for the extra thunderbolt ports is probably worth it.
I've had one for a couple months now, and it largely goes unused on a daily basis. I remapped caps lock to escape for vim usage, so my most common theoretical use of it isn't necessary anymore.
I will say, however, there are moments when it shows promise. The 3rd party app BetterTouchTool lets you put custom shortcuts on it, so I created some utility shortcuts for things I never remember how to do, like taking screenshots. In those moments it's very nice, but I don't think I'd think less of the computer without the touchbar.
I will say, however, there are moments when it shows promise. The 3rd party app BetterTouchTool lets you put custom shortcuts on it, so I created some utility shortcuts for things I never remember how to do, like taking screenshots. In those moments it's very nice, but I don't think I'd think less of the computer without the touchbar.
I use it daily because it's the only place to change volume and do a bunch of essential OS tasks. They replaced the top row of keys with it. However I don't use it for much beyond that.
There are times that its shortcuts make it convenient for you to work and actually save your time. e.g. pdf editing shortcuts and also facetime shortcuts as well as email writing cpabailities.
When I go to hit delete, my fingers curl up and end up hitting something on the touch bar. Before I took the lock button off the touch bar, this lead to some absolutely maddening interruptions in my work flow. Removing that made it better, but I honestly prefer typing on my xps 13 than on my work computer.
I don't like the touchbar at all. I didn't initially like the keyboard either, but have grown quite quickly to prefer it - seems more solid, and the keys are a bit larger.
It would only be nice if they had not removed a physical escape key. It's a downgrade in my opinion. Sometimes it just turns off for no reason.
Not very useful at all. Few apps take advantage of it. The lack of a physical Escape key is also very annoying.
I use it daily. I'm indifferent to it. What I love though is that I now have TouchID on the power button. That's what makes it great. The customization is nice, and I find I hit the play/pause buttons on the touch bar if I'm watching something on Youtube more frequently than locating my cursor and clicking on play/pause.
I don't think my family member with the Touch Bar has ever used it.
The best I can say about the Touch Bar is that I'm able to customize what the function keys can do in whatever placement I want. Overall its OK, but I don't use it the way Apple intended. I do wish the ESC was a hardware key.
http://imgur.com/a/no8MQ
http://imgur.com/a/no8MQ
I remapped my Caps to Esc, and recommend doing the same; as a vim user it's great.
I tried that configuration, but I found it's too easy to accidentally flick it with my finger and pop myself out of insert mode, and ended up going back to the default (with CapsLock completely disabled). I think Esc's placement far from the home row is intentional.
Oh, that is nice, I never noticed you can do this. OK I will give it a try. Thanks.
I map mine to Ctrl, and then in Vim I map `jk` to Esc.
Map your Caps Lock button to ESC
Among Emacs users, it's more common to have Caps Lock mapped to Control.
Caps for Ctrl, Ctrl for Esc. See picture - I'm very happy with this layout.
http://imgur.com/a/8QlOW
http://imgur.com/a/8QlOW
I'm on the market for a new laptop. Not a fan of the touchbar, and Surface only goes to 512gb.
And turns out those two are the only professional-ish laptops you can actually see in stores. At least here in Vancouver, the only things stocked at Best Buy etc are Mega Gigatron Gaming Ultra XXXL-sized laptops, underpowered $299 laptops for your mom, and super svelte Macbook Air copies.
I know for a fact there's product lines such as the Dell XPS , the HP Elitebook, i7 ultrabooks from Toshiba, Samsung etc, but nobody wants to sell them.
Well, except Amazon, but buying a laptop from the internet feels as wrong as buying shoes from the internet. What if the ergonomics are all wrong for me?
And turns out those two are the only professional-ish laptops you can actually see in stores. At least here in Vancouver, the only things stocked at Best Buy etc are Mega Gigatron Gaming Ultra XXXL-sized laptops, underpowered $299 laptops for your mom, and super svelte Macbook Air copies.
I know for a fact there's product lines such as the Dell XPS , the HP Elitebook, i7 ultrabooks from Toshiba, Samsung etc, but nobody wants to sell them.
Well, except Amazon, but buying a laptop from the internet feels as wrong as buying shoes from the internet. What if the ergonomics are all wrong for me?
I have the same fear. I'm leaning towards the xps but I'm not gonna buy one unless I can try one out first physically.
If they allow web type content into the touch bar, does that mean it could include pornography? I guess if it wasn't allowed in the app store it could exist, but wouldn't get very far.
Still waiting for a hack that adds a physical ESC key.
Mac Touch Bar is useless. Does anyone actually use it? Would you rather have the touch bar or your escape key back?
I'm using a machine with a touch bar right now and I have an escape key in the upper-left corner of the touch bar where it always was. I don't understand this complaint.
It's not a physical key, and touch bar sometimes crashes, which makes it difficult to back out of many UX flows (think full screen video).
On the Mac, command-. is a synonym for esc.
(Or maybe it's the other way around, since the former have existed on Mac keyboards since day 1, but the latter has not!)
(Or maybe it's the other way around, since the former have existed on Mac keyboards since day 1, but the latter has not!)
Unfortunately it's not quite where it was though. It's about one key's width in from the left. Presumably for the sheer sake of symmetry with the touch sensor the other end.
The touchable area is actually bigger than it appears. It does in fact extend much farther left. Try it.
This is probably for aesthetics as you mention.
This is probably for aesthetics as you mention.
I've read that a couple of times, but it's only a little bit. About half way between the far edge and the edge of the touchbar display.
But still considerably wider than the physical escape button it replaced.
That area to the left is also a touch target for ESC, so the ESC key actually got bigger (but obviously that doesn't help with tactile feedback)
I assume the Touch Bar and the corresponding decision to remove the ESC key is part of the strategy to make the transition between iOS and MacOS as seamless as possible, even if the 2 systems are never completely unified. I can't remember the last time I've ever used the ESC key in day-to-day computing but I notice its absence all the time when using the iPad Pro's smart cover keyboard.
I don't own a Touch Bar laptop myself but as someone who has to teach people how to use computers and applications, the Touch Bar bothers me as much as Microsoft Office's Ribbon toolbar, in which functionality somehow becomes even more difficult to memorize because of the seemingly arbitrary decision in how the context buttons are arranged (nevermind how they might change with each software update).
I don't own a Touch Bar laptop myself but as someone who has to teach people how to use computers and applications, the Touch Bar bothers me as much as Microsoft Office's Ribbon toolbar, in which functionality somehow becomes even more difficult to memorize because of the seemingly arbitrary decision in how the context buttons are arranged (nevermind how they might change with each software update).
> I can't remember the last time I've ever used the ESC key in day-to-day computing but I notice its absence all the time when using the iPad Pro's smart cover keyboard.
That's strange, I use it every day to get out of modal boxes, dialogs, close panels etc, revert to normal states.
That's strange, I use it every day to get out of modal boxes, dialogs, close panels etc, revert to normal states.
I'd like to have the keys back but keep TouchID
I ended up buying a second hand late 2013 MBP instead of a new one because of it. Happy with my choice. Disappointed that I don't have the option to buy a top end machine without the touchbar.
I love it. Prepping a Youtube video on how I use it this weekend.
The Touch Bar has revolutionized the way I accidentally invoke Siri once per 30 minute period.
You can remove Siri from the touch bar in the touchbar settings. While in the settings you can tap the bar to open the different configurations and remove her anywhere
I replaced Siri with the Sleep button since the keyboard shortcut to lock/sleep your MBP doesn't work anymore. :) (If anyone is interested: Finder > View (press Option key) > Customize Control Strip)
I did the same and now it has revolutionized the way I accidentally put my laptop to sleep every 30 minutes.
Wow! I've had this laptop also for about 6 months and never knew you could do that!
To me, this is a GUI anti-pattern. Why do we have to go to Finder to customise the Touchbar? I looked for this option in System Preferences for days before I stumbled across this .. and then to have to hold down the magic Option key.
Honestly, these sorts of anti-patterns are what makes me think Apple has seriously lost the plot.
Honestly, these sorts of anti-patterns are what makes me think Apple has seriously lost the plot.
In system preferences, keyboard settings there is a button to configure the strip. I didn't know about the finder thing
[deleted]
If you ask Siri to disable, it gives you a weird "I'm sorry I can't do that" reply. Unlike a real person, there's no verbal abuse that will make her go away.
Makes some sense when you consider that you'd have turned Siri off by a route that doesn't allow you to turn it back on, which could make it difficult for some users to get it back.
Oh my gosh. I've had this laptop for 4 months and never discovered that the Touch Bar could be customized beyond setting when the F-keys show up by default.
3d touchpads have revolutionized the way I curse audibly a few times over the same period
3D? Like the space mouse, or like Kinect? Or are you referring to some other dimension?
I think you can disable the touch pad on most laptops and just use an external if you're just getting spurious inputs from your wrists. The Thinkpad Trackpoint is still one of the best mobile pointing devices available.
I think you can disable the touch pad on most laptops and just use an external if you're just getting spurious inputs from your wrists. The Thinkpad Trackpoint is still one of the best mobile pointing devices available.
The Mac trackpads are indeed 3d. They can sense two dimensions of touch like normal, plus how hard you're pushing them. It's really great - it lets you set how firm you like your click in software, and gives you an additional type of click.
Any good examples of the force click use? I use mine to look up definitions/Wikipedia in safari but beyond that I haven't found much use for it.
I wish I could make it open links in a new tab (like middle click on a mouse) instead of that annoying preview thing.
I wish I could make it open links in a new tab (like middle click on a mouse) instead of that annoying preview thing.
I use BetterTouchTool to customize trackpad behavior like this, adding gestures for opening in new tab, switching tabs, close window etc
If you click on that annoying preview after it comes up thing it'll open the link in a new tab :)
x,y, & pressure
A Google search would have saved you a lot of embarrassment before making a needless inflammatory remark.
3d touchpad takes a 2d device and adds a pressure channel, making it measure three dimensions x,y,z. So yes, 3d like a Kinect.
3d touchpad takes a 2d device and adds a pressure channel, making it measure three dimensions x,y,z. So yes, 3d like a Kinect.
Sorry, I didn't intend it to be inflammatory, and I did do a Google search, finding Space Mice (which I'm familiar with) advertised, a Microchip special-purpose touch pad IC/dev kit, and various other seemingly unrelated systems. I have a Leap Motion input device to play with, and wondered if it was related to the more familiar Kinect. No offense meant!
Haha, I had the same issue, so swapped it with “do not disturb” that also use quiet frequent.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2X_UATE9-c
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2X_UATE9-c
I replaced Siri with the lock button. Guess what happens from time to time.
EugenioPerea(2)
Apple is basically dead to me now. I have no interest in this "touch bar", and it just increases the cost of an already pricey laptop for no gain.
When my current MBPR dies, a SurfaceBook is replacing it.
When my current MBPR dies, a SurfaceBook is replacing it.
Cool story.
Please don't? Even if a comment is bad, replying like this only makes the thread worse.
thespace123(1)
Interesting proof of concept, but the Touch Bar is still nothing I want any part of.
Apple needs to make the Touch Bar a build-to-order option so that the rest of us can get a hardware Escape key and function keys back again.
Apple needs to make the Touch Bar a build-to-order option so that the rest of us can get a hardware Escape key and function keys back again.
Non-touchbar are the first models offered on the MacBook pro page.
Sounds great, can you show me where the non-existent 15" MacBook Pro without a touch-bar is?
Show me the 15" non-Touch Bar® MacBook Pro with dedicated graphics card.
At almost 1ghz slower, 2 less usb-c ports, no gpu, 1600mhz vs 2133mhz ram and only available in silver. They've gimped the non touchbar version on purpose so those of us that want a top spec MacBook have no choice but to go with it.
Oh, the Touch Bar that is preventing me from getting a new laptop, because I am professional.
ThinkPad is actually solid replacement.
ThinkPad is actually solid replacement.
Oh, the Touch Bar that I'm really looking forward to having when I upgrade my laptop, because I am a professional.
"I went to stock market today. I did a business" :)
Maybe in social media :)
I've been searching for alternatives too. Problem is I don't know of any laptop that has a similar quality touchpad compared to MBP. Apparently Apple has invested much more in touchpad responsivity, especially to small movements.
EDIT: It looks like it's using the rubrail package, which links with the private DFRFoundation framework. rubrail itself is using the objc package. I think this code snippet from the README[1] is enough:
Ugh. Why?
[1]https://github.com/SSheldon/rust-objc