Neom – an entire new land, purpose-built for a new way of living(discoverneom.com)
discoverneom.com
Neom – an entire new land, purpose-built for a new way of living
http://www.discoverneom.com/
120 comments
Agreed. The only thing interesting about the project would be the opportunity to live somewhere that doesn't have traditional attitudes towards having a military, dealing with foreign countries, etc.
Completely uninteresting otherwise. Just go to any trendy city.
Where's my libertarian utopia??
Completely uninteresting otherwise. Just go to any trendy city.
Where's my libertarian utopia??
Depends, which version of libertarian do you believe in? The ultra-right libertarians that align with Christian conservatism and the prepper ethos or...uh...the ones who are big on Porcupines. I think the first group far outweighs the second group as a voting block. If the former I'd say the U.S. is right what Ted Cruz and the Tea Party crowd want right now. Environmental regulations, social safety nets, and public institutions are getting rolled back so that taxes can go down. Texas seems to be a hotbed for this. If you're for the latter, New Hampshire is probably okay, but you'll still get quite a few of the former.
I'm a lowercase-l libertarian, not a right-wing American trying to avoid the stigma.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
I'm not judging either way. My political leanings tend to fall under the frame of left-libertarianism.
You're expecting someone else to build it for you?
That doesn't sound very libertarian.
That doesn't sound very libertarian.
Singapore or Zurich are about as close as you're going to get, depending on what you fancy in a country.
>Where's my libertarian utopia??
The moon, if Heinlein was right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_Is_a_Harsh_Mistress
The moon, if Heinlein was right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_Is_a_Harsh_Mistress
excluding sovereign laws labor laws
Will it be possible to have sex slaves? Kill people just for pleasure? Make things that would only be possible in westworld?
Will it be possible to have sex slaves? Kill people just for pleasure? Make things that would only be possible in westworld?
[deleted]
So they want to build a tech hub which would be inaccessible to the only two technologically advanced countries in the region; Iran and Israel with the latter being the only actual tech hub in the region.
Since the linked site contains almost no information, please read the Bloomberg article:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-24/saudi-ara...
"Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman announced plans to build a new city on the Red Sea coast, promising a lifestyle not available in today’s Saudi Arabia as he seeks to remake the kingdom in a time of dwindling resources."
Thanks. I was wondering whether this would be some neoliberal hellhole or something actually interesting.
Tell me more about this "neoliberal hellhole in the heart of Saudi Arabia"
Isn't that redundant? Saudi Arabia is the poster child of the Washington Consensus.
[deleted]
Neoliberal hellhole?
The petroleum era is ending, time to create a modern society...
I'm not so optimistic. I think we've only begun to properly supplement the power requirements with solar power, etc. It'll be a while before the petroleum era ends.
Maybe start talking about petroleum era going away when say, 10% of vehicles in US are running on electricity?
Maybe start talking about petroleum era going away when say, 10% of vehicles in US are running on electricity?
I think he means the petroleum era in regards to Saudi Arabia's future. They can see the writing on the wall and would be foolish to not diversify.
Whether they will be successful at creating a semi-utopian city is another story. I expect it to have the same warts as the rest of the region in regards to migrant labor, human rights and civil rights.
Whether they will be successful at creating a semi-utopian city is another story. I expect it to have the same warts as the rest of the region in regards to migrant labor, human rights and civil rights.
>I think he means the petroleum era in regards to Saudi Arabia's future. They can see the writing on the wall and would be foolish to not diversify.
How different is that though? We are bombarded with news about electric cars all the time, but the reality is that we are still a very long way from the world (Remember, US is only 4% of the world's population) embracing electric vehicles.
So while eventually the world is going to move away from petrochemicals, it is too early to say we are anywhere near the end of petroleum era, even from the financial perspective of Saudi Arabia depending on petroleum. Saudi Aramco is a behemoth whose value and cash flow is insane even keeping in mind how the country hemorrhages money by unnecessary expenditure. It's market capitalization is disputed in the range of trillions.
How different is that though? We are bombarded with news about electric cars all the time, but the reality is that we are still a very long way from the world (Remember, US is only 4% of the world's population) embracing electric vehicles.
So while eventually the world is going to move away from petrochemicals, it is too early to say we are anywhere near the end of petroleum era, even from the financial perspective of Saudi Arabia depending on petroleum. Saudi Aramco is a behemoth whose value and cash flow is insane even keeping in mind how the country hemorrhages money by unnecessary expenditure. It's market capitalization is disputed in the range of trillions.
Should you go there, please do share news about your beheading startup.
"It's like Uber, but for stonings."
"We're looking to hire some rock star executioners."
"We're looking for real ninjas."
Eh, a $500 billion investment in the city of the future doesn't seem that exciting considering that it's technically under the jurisdiction of a country that considers sex outside of marriage illegal and sodomy an act punishable by death.
They're going to find the results of all that money very underwhelming unless they secularize the legal system.
They're going to find the results of all that money very underwhelming unless they secularize the legal system.
UAE is the same. A lot of things are illegal--as shown when some unlucky people get caught http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39208946 --but otherwise tolerated.
Alchool, sex outside marriage and all.
I am pretty sure that they will be able to handle the Wahhabis inside their country...they can buy off most of the "scholars" and the behead the rest. But not sure that they can keep the masses happy (revolution?) or that the city will function as planned. $500 Billion is a lot of money and there's plenty of competition. But then, they are desperate.
I am pretty sure that they will be able to handle the Wahhabis inside their country...they can buy off most of the "scholars" and the behead the rest. But not sure that they can keep the masses happy (revolution?) or that the city will function as planned. $500 Billion is a lot of money and there's plenty of competition. But then, they are desperate.
Call it Kinakuta, untangle it from religion and misogyny, have more universities than mega-malls, and setup a democracy.
"“Perhaps I can make an analogy to Go—though chess would work just as well. Because of our history, we Kinakutans are well-versed in both games. At the beginning of the game, the pieces are arranged in a pattern that is simple and easy to understand. But the game evolves. The players make small decisions, one turn at a time, each decision fairly simple in and of itself, and made for reasons that can be easily understood, even by a novice. But over the course of many such turns, the pattern develops such great complexity that only the finest minds—or the finest computers—can comprehend it.” The sultan is gazing down thoughtfully at the Go board as he says this. He looks up and starts making eye contact around the room. “The analogy is clear. Our policies concerning free speech, telecommunications, and cryptography have evolved from a series of simple, rational decisions. But they are today so complex that no one can understand them, even in one single country, to say nothing of all countries taken together.”" - Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon.
"“Perhaps I can make an analogy to Go—though chess would work just as well. Because of our history, we Kinakutans are well-versed in both games. At the beginning of the game, the pieces are arranged in a pattern that is simple and easy to understand. But the game evolves. The players make small decisions, one turn at a time, each decision fairly simple in and of itself, and made for reasons that can be easily understood, even by a novice. But over the course of many such turns, the pattern develops such great complexity that only the finest minds—or the finest computers—can comprehend it.” The sultan is gazing down thoughtfully at the Go board as he says this. He looks up and starts making eye contact around the room. “The analogy is clear. Our policies concerning free speech, telecommunications, and cryptography have evolved from a series of simple, rational decisions. But they are today so complex that no one can understand them, even in one single country, to say nothing of all countries taken together.”" - Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon.
Since the person behind this project is the sovereign of a nation-state, perhaps they should build a new way of living in their existing cities and society.
A good place to start would be enshrining basic civil liberties and not bombing civilians in a neighboring country.
A good place to start would be enshrining basic civil liberties and not bombing civilians in a neighboring country.
Even a dictator still rules at the whim of the people charged with implementing their rules. Sometimes it’s impossible to get the power structure below you to change, even when you can order executions, because the incentives are broken and will keep installing people with desires contrary to your own.
The point here, then, might be to build an “insulated” city with a more direct power structure, without the involvement of consolidated power-bases like ministries or civic departments. Immigration to the new zone could be filtered to only allow in people that believe more in the lawful rule of the sovereign themselves (maybe with something like a democratically-elected governor in between) than the rule of government as a whole; and then, eventually, a military et al could be raised from that power-base to convert the rest of the country to the “new” model.
The point here, then, might be to build an “insulated” city with a more direct power structure, without the involvement of consolidated power-bases like ministries or civic departments. Immigration to the new zone could be filtered to only allow in people that believe more in the lawful rule of the sovereign themselves (maybe with something like a democratically-elected governor in between) than the rule of government as a whole; and then, eventually, a military et al could be raised from that power-base to convert the rest of the country to the “new” model.
This is a fair response and one that lifts from "disruption" like thinking processes.
I've made a personal decision however to retreat from "realpolitik" like political analyses because it requires me to play mind games about the probable intentions of the decision maker, their constraints, and the possible outcomes of the decision they made.
Holding people to a set of normative values that I believe to be meaningful has been a more useful (if more blunt) meta-construct*
* this conversation has me wondering if it might be time to revisit that position
I've made a personal decision however to retreat from "realpolitik" like political analyses because it requires me to play mind games about the probable intentions of the decision maker, their constraints, and the possible outcomes of the decision they made.
Holding people to a set of normative values that I believe to be meaningful has been a more useful (if more blunt) meta-construct*
* this conversation has me wondering if it might be time to revisit that position
> Since the person behind this project is the sovereign of a nation-state
No, the son and heir apparent (and First Deputy Prime Minister, and Minister of Defense, and...) of the sovereign of a nation state. King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman are not the same person.
No, the son and heir apparent (and First Deputy Prime Minister, and Minister of Defense, and...) of the sovereign of a nation state. King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman are not the same person.
Ha, a fair criticism. I was aware of the distinction, Salman seems to be sovereign in name only these days which is why I took the liberty of framing MBS as the decision maker:
> The question now arises: Will the king abdicate the throne and turn power over to the son he clearly trusts? Serious newspapers have raised the possibility. King Salman has already given his son unprecedented power. His nickname is Mr. Everything because he has been given control of the military, the economy (including the oil industry), and even control of the entertainment business. He has been the de facto foreign minister for the last two years, conducting all the important foreign policy issues and visits, including setting up President Donald Trump’s historic visit to the kingdom. He will presumably represent Saudi Arabia at the G-20 meeting in Hamburg.
Salman is 81 and suffers from pre-dementia. The state of his health is a closely guarded secret. He has been very busy this year, with a month-long trip to Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, China, and Japan, plus attending the Arab summit in Jordan, as well as hosting Trump and 50 Muslim leaders. So he, apparently, is capable of being in power for some time to come. His brothers have often lived into their 90s.
> The question now arises: Will the king abdicate the throne and turn power over to the son he clearly trusts? Serious newspapers have raised the possibility. King Salman has already given his son unprecedented power. His nickname is Mr. Everything because he has been given control of the military, the economy (including the oil industry), and even control of the entertainment business. He has been the de facto foreign minister for the last two years, conducting all the important foreign policy issues and visits, including setting up President Donald Trump’s historic visit to the kingdom. He will presumably represent Saudi Arabia at the G-20 meeting in Hamburg.
Salman is 81 and suffers from pre-dementia. The state of his health is a closely guarded secret. He has been very busy this year, with a month-long trip to Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, China, and Japan, plus attending the Arab summit in Jordan, as well as hosting Trump and 50 Muslim leaders. So he, apparently, is capable of being in power for some time to come. His brothers have often lived into their 90s.
But its in Saudi Arabia, excuse me for saying this because I have lived in Bahrain where certain youtube channels are censored but still considered more open than other gulf countries, how do you access an open internet in neom?
Not to mention, if there are any women in your life, they will be treated like children who must be under the constant supervision of the men in your family.
And I'm sure it will be super great for trans women and queer people in general...
At least the video on their site was showing no sexual diversity. All I see is families with a mother and father. Gays, trans people or lesbians are nowhere to be seen.
So the FAQ does give a little hope for that and stuff like gay/trans rights.
> WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THE JUDICIAL AND REGUL ATORY FRAMEWORK THAT WILL GOVERN ALL CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL AFFAIRS IN NEOM?
> NEOM will be the world’s first independent special zone spanning three countries, with a regulatory framework designed to adopt world-class investment laws that support the livelihoods of residents and the development of targeted economic sectors. The special zone will also adopt an autonomous judicial system subject to independent regulations and legislation, which will be drafted by investors in accordance with international best practice. The zone will be independent of the Kingdom’s existing governmental framework, excluding sovereign laws. Social norms in Neom will adopt leading practices to improve standards of livability for its residents and visitors.
and clarifying 'independent systems' a little later:
> The project will be developed within a specialized zone, independent of the Kingdom’s existing governmental framework, excluding sovereign laws, in regards to taxation, customs, labor laws, and other legal parameters pertaining to business. As such, a zone within an independent system gives industry the ability to manufacture and provide, goods and services at globally competitive prices
So it sounds like they at least want to shed the more regressive parts of the traditional Islamic culture in Saudi Arabia to bring in international visitors who are reticent to visit or invest in Saudi Arabia because of the way the laws treat women/homosexuals/etc.
> WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THE JUDICIAL AND REGUL ATORY FRAMEWORK THAT WILL GOVERN ALL CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL AFFAIRS IN NEOM?
> NEOM will be the world’s first independent special zone spanning three countries, with a regulatory framework designed to adopt world-class investment laws that support the livelihoods of residents and the development of targeted economic sectors. The special zone will also adopt an autonomous judicial system subject to independent regulations and legislation, which will be drafted by investors in accordance with international best practice. The zone will be independent of the Kingdom’s existing governmental framework, excluding sovereign laws. Social norms in Neom will adopt leading practices to improve standards of livability for its residents and visitors.
and clarifying 'independent systems' a little later:
> The project will be developed within a specialized zone, independent of the Kingdom’s existing governmental framework, excluding sovereign laws, in regards to taxation, customs, labor laws, and other legal parameters pertaining to business. As such, a zone within an independent system gives industry the ability to manufacture and provide, goods and services at globally competitive prices
So it sounds like they at least want to shed the more regressive parts of the traditional Islamic culture in Saudi Arabia to bring in international visitors who are reticent to visit or invest in Saudi Arabia because of the way the laws treat women/homosexuals/etc.
As someone else commented, it sounds like Dubai 2.0. The UAE and other Gulf states were just as traditional as KSA, but while they have relaxed their customs to make their countries more appealing to Westerners, KSA has stayed true to it’s roots.
It seems like this is an experiment for KSA to try the same thing, but without upsetting the more traditional members of their population who still believe the way they do things right now is best.
KSA is the biggest country in the Gulf and has the best economy, so they haven’t needed to attract outsiders in the past unlike other countries, but as the end of oil gets closer they are obviously looking to diversify their economy.
It seems like this is an experiment for KSA to try the same thing, but without upsetting the more traditional members of their population who still believe the way they do things right now is best.
KSA is the biggest country in the Gulf and has the best economy, so they haven’t needed to attract outsiders in the past unlike other countries, but as the end of oil gets closer they are obviously looking to diversify their economy.
> to bring in international visitors who are reticent to visit or invest in Saudi Arabia because of the way the laws treat women/homosexuals/etc.
... but who are still willing to work there and pay taxes to support this very system.
... but who are still willing to work there and pay taxes to support this very system.
Yeah, there's definitely a decent set of people who won't go today because of the personal risk but would participate in the Saudi economy if the risk to themselves was removed. I wasn't talking about people with a moral objection though but even among that group there'd be a number willing to participate probably giving a 'show them that this is better and works' justification to themselves.
> So it sounds like they at least want to shed the more regressive parts of the traditional Islamic culture in Saudi Arabia to bring in international visitors who are reticent to visit or invest in Saudi Arabia because of the way the laws treat women/homosexuals/etc.
It seems more like they're just dancing around the issue to me. Neom is still under the full control of a Sunni theocracy, it just has separate regulatory structures, like a SEZ in China.
It seems more like they're just dancing around the issue to me. Neom is still under the full control of a Sunni theocracy, it just has separate regulatory structures, like a SEZ in China.
Just taking the FAQ at face value it seems like they will have free reign to decide what the laws are surrounding issues like this inside Zeom. Just going by the language there they'll be able to set their own laws about those issues.
Of course that could all be just fluff and come to nothing but I think they know it's in their own self interest to open up and give this area more autonomy than the special economic zones in China in order to appease and attract investors/tourism without having to change the culture of the actual country.
Of course that could all be just fluff and come to nothing but I think they know it's in their own self interest to open up and give this area more autonomy than the special economic zones in China in order to appease and attract investors/tourism without having to change the culture of the actual country.
Is it easier to change the culture and the way of life of a country by introducing changes at a slow, steady pace, over a long period of time; or is it easier to do it by introducing abrupt changes in a small area, and then extend the area progressively until it covers the whole country? Might be what they're trying to do?
Like in Hong Kong? In the end, its up to the government, and I dont think they want to abolish the absolute monarchy and introduce in democracy yet as it takes away the power of the Al-Saud family and might leave them vulnerable to political enemies
I don't believe absolute monarchy and liberal society are necessarily mutually exclusive.
As someone who lives semi-arid, good luck growing abundant food on this land.
I have 12 acre feet of water rights on 58 acres in Montana and its still a lot of work.
(For sale btw: It's fun as a giant playground http://www.eralandmark.com/listings/view/307976)
I have 12 acre feet of water rights on 58 acres in Montana and its still a lot of work.
(For sale btw: It's fun as a giant playground http://www.eralandmark.com/listings/view/307976)
> 12 acre feet of water rights on 58 acres
Could you explain these terms better? How does that work? Thanks!
Could you explain these terms better? How does that work? Thanks!
An acre foot is a volume of water one acre, one foot deep, used over a year. In gallons, that’s 325,851 gallons per year per acre foot.
The poster then can use about 4 million gallons of water per year for his land.
When spread out over this amount of land, that’s about 66% of the amount of water needed for a suburban grass lawn in a hot climate.
The poster then can use about 4 million gallons of water per year for his land.
When spread out over this amount of land, that’s about 66% of the amount of water needed for a suburban grass lawn in a hot climate.
Not parent, but thanks for the detailed response.
One thing though:
> that’s about 66% of the amount of water needed for a suburban grass lawn in a hot climate
I'm not sure how to related to this. If a person wanted to grow food in a hot climate they'd probably build tunnels or shaded houses or some such, or grow olives or some other food plant suited to the conditions, using drip irrigation. Where as a suburban lawn is typically exposed to direct sun light and watered in a typically less than optimal way.
One thing though:
> that’s about 66% of the amount of water needed for a suburban grass lawn in a hot climate
I'm not sure how to related to this. If a person wanted to grow food in a hot climate they'd probably build tunnels or shaded houses or some such, or grow olives or some other food plant suited to the conditions, using drip irrigation. Where as a suburban lawn is typically exposed to direct sun light and watered in a typically less than optimal way.
couldn't find your email, please ping me about your land, its in my profile.
Hehe, know how you feel. My family has about 400 plus 1600 BLM lease the only use of which is grazing. At least the grazing lease pays BLM and the taxes.
Is it only me looking for an ICO details at the bottom of the page? :)
Well, here's the whitepaper - http://www.discoverneom.com/content/pdfs/NEOM_FACT_SHEET_ENG...
An entirely new city, centrally planned from scratch by developers and investors without any organic growth, no history, no culture, an initial population of zero, in Saudi Arabia that costs half a trillion to make.
What could possibly go wrong?
What could possibly go wrong?
Does anyone know why Saudi Arabia does not have a big space program? Seems like more reasonable way to spend exorbitant amounts of money than building paradise cities in the middle of a desert.
This looks like the Fyre Festival of country startups
The video on this page had some eerie similarities to the Fyre Festival deck.
Question:
- Which religion will be NEOM's?
Everything else comes down from it.
- Which religion will be NEOM's?
Everything else comes down from it.
I'm guessing secularity or humanism or maybe the church of reason?
It is in Saudi Arabia.
Is none an option?
Not in Saudi Arabia.
I once filled out "None" for my religion on a Saudi visa. It was accepted and I had no problem whatsoever on my visit there, even discussing my alleged atheism openly with curious taxi drivers etc. Only later did I discover that atheism is considered a form of terrorism there, and is a capital offence.
Still probably less controversial than what a truer answer would have been.
Still probably less controversial than what a truer answer would have been.
Taxi drivers know what you put for religion on your visa?
No, but every single one of them asked whether I was Muslim. Their responses to my answer ran the gamut.
One, a conservative, was clearly perturbed by my answer and wanted to convert me, but lacked the English to do so. The best he could come up with was: "Muhammad Ali... strong! Muhammad Ali... Muslim!" Which I was happy to agree with, but just couldn't figure out how to make the next logical leap.
Another, a liberal, told me that Saudi Arabia was unfortunately not a great place for non-Muslims, but that Dubai was amazing, everybody was treated equally there. As far as he was concerned, there was no difference between religions, and the only thing that mattered was whether you were a good person.
Another pulled out a Black Sabbath tape that had been hidden under his seat, put it on, and started head-banging.
Anyhow, on the street, religion wasn't a subject that anyone was particularly discrete about. Interestly, in professional environments (I was there to attend the Jeddah Economic Forum), it was never mentioned at all.
One, a conservative, was clearly perturbed by my answer and wanted to convert me, but lacked the English to do so. The best he could come up with was: "Muhammad Ali... strong! Muhammad Ali... Muslim!" Which I was happy to agree with, but just couldn't figure out how to make the next logical leap.
Another, a liberal, told me that Saudi Arabia was unfortunately not a great place for non-Muslims, but that Dubai was amazing, everybody was treated equally there. As far as he was concerned, there was no difference between religions, and the only thing that mattered was whether you were a good person.
Another pulled out a Black Sabbath tape that had been hidden under his seat, put it on, and started head-banging.
Anyhow, on the street, religion wasn't a subject that anyone was particularly discrete about. Interestly, in professional environments (I was there to attend the Jeddah Economic Forum), it was never mentioned at all.
I think "secular humanist" is a good start (and compatible with atheism as well as a number of other religions to varying degrees)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
EDIT: Not sure why I'm being downvoted here. The linked site is absolutely ridiculous in its lack of information which is a hallmark of concepts that overpromise via marketing and underdeliver by not shipping
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
EDIT: Not sure why I'm being downvoted here. The linked site is absolutely ridiculous in its lack of information which is a hallmark of concepts that overpromise via marketing and underdeliver by not shipping
I think you are being down-voted because others have pointed out this is a venture by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, so it will most definitely not be Secular humanism or anything close to it.
Well then it's doomed to fail, frankly, because 1) it's an extra limitation on the behavior of people in their target market of "free thinking, creative individuals" (who will not appreciate arbitrary constraints on their behavior that are not based on secular ethical established facts), and 2) there is no rational evidence that living that way is somehow superior to something like secular humanism, in fact the evidence seems to indicate the opposite
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-secular-life/201410...
But I was not here to argue that. If this new "nation" wishes to be forward-thinking and open-mind-inviting, it needs to shake off the religion requirement.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-secular-life/201410...
But I was not here to argue that. If this new "nation" wishes to be forward-thinking and open-mind-inviting, it needs to shake off the religion requirement.
It's chaired by Saudi Prince Mohammed bin Salman, so Sunni Islam.
The prince does say "NEOM will be powered by clean energy, he said, and will have no room “for anything traditional.”"
Seems unlikely he'd be able to establish something that has no room for anything traditional, unclear what he really intends to do.
Seems unlikely he'd be able to establish something that has no room for anything traditional, unclear what he really intends to do.
I guess I just missed the section on 'how you will be governed' and 'how will we care for the old / poor / infirm'.
So essentially it sounds like an experiment:
Does a place designed for the rich and privileged, by the rich and privileged equal a rich and privileged utopia?
Does a place designed for the rich and privileged, by the rich and privileged equal a rich and privileged utopia?
In Utopia there are no poor people.
Society run by technocrats using state capitalism. I've think I've seen that before... Is this Soviet Union 2.0? Maybe we have the technology to build it now?
> Society run by technocrats
More like a society run by theocrats, allowing technologists to live and work there, with a handshake promise to be "more socially open minded".
More like a society run by theocrats, allowing technologists to live and work there, with a handshake promise to be "more socially open minded".
I think you are right. Soviet Union was an atheist society. What would the marriage of ruling by theocracy and managing by technology be called?
Let's call it Theotechnocracy?
Let's call it Theotechnocracy?
That's pretty much what communism/stalinism is. The party leader is the godhead and everything is managed by technology (aka, bureaucrats).
Being arrested for blasphemy is really no different than being "re-educated".
Being arrested for blasphemy is really no different than being "re-educated".
LMAOing at the idea of a "free nation" in which saudi arabia--one of the most insanely conservative nations on earth--has total sovereignty.
Plenty of grandiose claims but little substance. What is this about? A pilot city for testing next-gen infrastructure technologies built from scratch?
I think there's a pretty good chance that this succeeds wildly at everything it advertises.
Unfortunately it doesn't advertise democracy, equality, upward mobility, stability, justice, diversity or even freedom.
But in this world, are there enough rich, heteronormal, globe trotters that fetishize clean energy, "clean" food and electric cars to make something like this a success? Probably.
Unfortunately it doesn't advertise democracy, equality, upward mobility, stability, justice, diversity or even freedom.
But in this world, are there enough rich, heteronormal, globe trotters that fetishize clean energy, "clean" food and electric cars to make something like this a success? Probably.
Indeed. The whole thing sounds less like Dubai 2.0 and more like Singapore 2.0 to me.
The Arab countries are not stupid; they know the oil is going to run out and they're trying to plan for the future. Nevertheless this sounds like yet another Masdar City, which has been mostly a failure [1]. (One of the many problems with MC is that PV panels in a landscape of blowing sand have to be swept daily or they stop working.)
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/16/masdars-...
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/16/masdars-...
It's amazing how quickly the mind absorbs trends and makes assumptions. From the moment I started reading the top of the page I assumed this was going to be publicity for a new ICO raise.
Fascinating. It is good to see that some people are actually dreaming and acting on a bigger scale than rent seeking mobile apps.
Will it be a rival to the new Cairo mega-city?
http://www.cnn.com/style/article/egypt-new-capital/index.htm....
http://www.cnn.com/style/article/egypt-new-capital/index.htm....
Everything looks perfect, we only need to find perfect humans to complete the project.
Thanks but no thanks, crown prince. Good luck with your project!
It took me a long time to figure out whether this was a parody.
The website of their PR firm greets me with this: http://archive.is/B7aUx.
Are you claiming that it is NOT important to have the latest version of Adobe Flash installed....
That's a bold move Cotton.
That's a bold move Cotton.
So where the folks who haul the garbage get to live?
"Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... NEOM."
This looks like the Saudis want to have their own Qatar-like state...
They should have called it LOTF (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Flies)
Or perhaps MUDW ("Muslim Utopia Doesn't Work")
Or perhaps MUDW ("Muslim Utopia Doesn't Work")
A fool and his money...
I don't think Saudi Arabia and innovation can exist in the same sentence!
Stopped reading at "Saudi Arabia", what a pile of &%#+.
Hmmmmmm.... :|
The last person I would trust to build the free, open society of the future is the monarch of a country that still executes people for being gay.
Apostasy and consuming any kind of drugs is also punishable by death. Drinking alcohol and having sex outside marriage are severely reprimanded.
And you also have all the vexations of "normal" regular life. Women were not allowed to drive at all until recently. Movie theaters simply do not exist in Saudi. Movies that you can legally watch (at home) are heavily censored (so piracy is your only option). And you have segregated areas for males and females in restaurant and most shops...
A project like Neom would totally work if they promised the locals that none of the bullshit rules would apply. Young Saudis would just swamp the place and work their asses off to make it happen... but I doubt the old religious guard would like that. Just marketing BS. They'll just build fancy buildings in the desert at great expense, and nothing will come out of it.
And you also have all the vexations of "normal" regular life. Women were not allowed to drive at all until recently. Movie theaters simply do not exist in Saudi. Movies that you can legally watch (at home) are heavily censored (so piracy is your only option). And you have segregated areas for males and females in restaurant and most shops...
A project like Neom would totally work if they promised the locals that none of the bullshit rules would apply. Young Saudis would just swamp the place and work their asses off to make it happen... but I doubt the old religious guard would like that. Just marketing BS. They'll just build fancy buildings in the desert at great expense, and nothing will come out of it.
The quality/success of a future project is inversely proportional to the glamour of its initial marketing.
The marketing seems just a little too polished on this one. Reminds me of a kickstarter scam.
The marketing seems just a little too polished on this one. Reminds me of a kickstarter scam.
Not going to work without major university presence nearby.
KAUST is nearby. Founded in 2009 so it's still new but it has the sixth-biggest endowment in the world.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Abdullah_University_of_Sc... :
"It was founded in 2009 and provides research and graduate training programs using English as the official language of instruction. It was announced in 2013 that KAUST had one of the fastest growing research and citation records in the world and in the 2016 Nature Index Rising Stars was ranked #19 in the world of the fastest rising universities for high quality research output. KAUST was ranked as the world's top university in citations per faculty ranking indicator as per QS World University Rankings for 2015-2016 and 2016-2017."
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Abdullah_University_of_Sc... :
"It was founded in 2009 and provides research and graduate training programs using English as the official language of instruction. It was announced in 2013 that KAUST had one of the fastest growing research and citation records in the world and in the 2016 Nature Index Rising Stars was ranked #19 in the world of the fastest rising universities for high quality research output. KAUST was ranked as the world's top university in citations per faculty ranking indicator as per QS World University Rankings for 2015-2016 and 2016-2017."
940 students and 1200 alumni.
Meanwhile, a public university in the US might typically have 40,000 students, and there are tons of them.
You really need a major university presence for this to work. If Saudi Arabia wants to compete economically, they need a good half-million university students.
Meanwhile, a public university in the US might typically have 40,000 students, and there are tons of them.
You really need a major university presence for this to work. If Saudi Arabia wants to compete economically, they need a good half-million university students.
Is this a startuptorship, then?
One startup (read corporation) that rules a whole country.
Finally! /s
One startup (read corporation) that rules a whole country.
Finally! /s
>THE TERM “INDEPENDENT SYSTEMS” IS A LITTLE AMBIGUOUS. WHAT EXACTLY WILL THE PROJECT BE, A FREE ZONE, TRANSIT ZONE, ETC.?
The project will be developed within a specialized zone, independent of the Kingdom’s existing governmental framework, excluding sovereign laws, in regards to taxation, customs, labor laws, and other legal parameters pertaining to business. As such, a zone within an independent system gives industry the ability to manufacture and provide, goods and services at globally competitive prices.
>WHAT DOES “EXCLUDING SOVEREIGN” MEAN?
“Sovereign laws” refer to everything related to the military sector, foreign policy, and sovereign decisions – all of which will remain at the government of Saudi Arabia’s discretion.
Yeah, that'll be a no from me dawg. It's certainly an interesting project, but I doubt it will draw the kind of international appeal they are hoping for. Dubai 2.0 basically.