The Human Cost of the Ghost Economy(longreads.com)
longreads.com
The Human Cost of the Ghost Economy
https://longreads.com/2017/12/13/the-human-cost-of-the-ghost-economy/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
65 comments
Its possible to push the majority of people so hard that you reach a social breaking point, suddenly things can go from seeming to be normal to a sudden social collapse. I lived through this during the LA Riots. The LA Riots were about a lot more than just Rodney King. The video of the King beating was the one incident that was like the straw breaking the camel's back, after suffering through massive social upheaval and loss of income for the majority of working people in LA through the 80s, the CIA using their assets to dump crack cocaine into poor neighborhoods, after 12 years of Reagan and Bush life had gotten so bad in LA for the majority of people that one video was all it wound up taking to instigate a sudden social collapse where every block in LA was going up in flames where guns were going off everywhere and the police fled the city in fear and let it nearly burn to the ground for 2 weeks before the national guard showed up. That's sudden social collapse nobody saw the 92 riots coming but in the aggregate it wasn't hard to predict if you were paying attention to statistics on the impact of Reagomics and crack on LA.
This. 100%. And that build up is happening again. This time, it's happening to white people (gasp!) [disclosure: I'm one of them]. What will happen in 10+ years when all those people with College debt are still working at Starbucks (or worse) and have 1) no hope of paying back their loans, and 2) have no prospects for saving for retirement? I would expect that a significant number of Americans will start mobilizing in some way. You can only push people so far.
"This time it's happening to white people (gasp!)" (lol)
Yes, that is correct, but it was always happening to them, simply not in a forceful enough manner for them to counteract the counter-messaging that told/tells them how exceptional they are.
Anyone who is actually interested in understanding American class dynamics should look at the history of the social CONSTRUCT of race and "whiteness." Who was and wasn't "white" has always changed based on the needs of the uber-affluent to create a protective buffer between themselves and everyone else. (And this isn't exclusive to America. Similar dynamics have played out pretty much non-European area that Europeans 'civilized'.) Digging into immigration policy implementation and development a little can teach one much.
Unfortunately, after having had so many years of being able to tell themselves that no matter their respective situations, at least they weren't N-----s, it is incredibly difficult to convince certain people to conduct an objective review of facts. At its 'settling' what was to be America broke down between those who owned stuff and those who would work for them, period. As I said above, once the numbers got a little hairy for the owners, the workers were broken into groups. Workforce and union membership expands to excluded groups as market needs change, i.e. as one group of workers becomes too expansive for employers and/or union membership flags among the initiated...
As automation progresses there is less need for any of the people and as such, I believe we end up where we are today.
Anyway, I only logged in to ask you (and other sharing your sentiment) how you'd feel about working for $15k a year?
I'm in D.C. and recently attended an event at which an 'educated' person working for a big name think tank floated such jobs as a solution to all this angst (particularly among the downtrodden "white" people, since, after Trump's election and all, they are the focus group du jour).
Anyone who is actually interested in understanding American class dynamics should look at the history of the social CONSTRUCT of race and "whiteness." Who was and wasn't "white" has always changed based on the needs of the uber-affluent to create a protective buffer between themselves and everyone else. (And this isn't exclusive to America. Similar dynamics have played out pretty much non-European area that Europeans 'civilized'.) Digging into immigration policy implementation and development a little can teach one much.
Unfortunately, after having had so many years of being able to tell themselves that no matter their respective situations, at least they weren't N-----s, it is incredibly difficult to convince certain people to conduct an objective review of facts. At its 'settling' what was to be America broke down between those who owned stuff and those who would work for them, period. As I said above, once the numbers got a little hairy for the owners, the workers were broken into groups. Workforce and union membership expands to excluded groups as market needs change, i.e. as one group of workers becomes too expansive for employers and/or union membership flags among the initiated...
As automation progresses there is less need for any of the people and as such, I believe we end up where we are today.
Anyway, I only logged in to ask you (and other sharing your sentiment) how you'd feel about working for $15k a year?
I'm in D.C. and recently attended an event at which an 'educated' person working for a big name think tank floated such jobs as a solution to all this angst (particularly among the downtrodden "white" people, since, after Trump's election and all, they are the focus group du jour).
In the US people can change the government peacefully with a vote. But that process only gives them two choices that largely represent no one but corporate interests. I hope at some point the US adopts a better voting system.
No real change has ever happened in America without blood being spilled.
* Labor unions had state militias called on them and thousands were massacred at the hands of private security agencies during the Mine Wars
* Women had to die in the Triangle massacre before safety became a concern.
* Martin Luther King along with tons of other black people needed to die just to be considered humans.
* Vietnam required the Kent State Massacre.
* How many children and civilians have we had die needlessly at the hands of the police? You can't get a jury to convict them.
The American government has never represented the people. It will take nothing less than large amounts violence to change the country if history is any indicator of the future.
* Labor unions had state militias called on them and thousands were massacred at the hands of private security agencies during the Mine Wars
* Women had to die in the Triangle massacre before safety became a concern.
* Martin Luther King along with tons of other black people needed to die just to be considered humans.
* Vietnam required the Kent State Massacre.
* How many children and civilians have we had die needlessly at the hands of the police? You can't get a jury to convict them.
The American government has never represented the people. It will take nothing less than large amounts violence to change the country if history is any indicator of the future.
[deleted]
What was the Triangle massacre? I can't find much about it.
I'm guessing he's referring to the Traigle Shirtwaist Factory fire. Basically the management locked the women working at the factory in because they thought they would sneak out instead of working. So when a fire broke out the women couldn't escape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fi...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fi...
I think many Americans (especially younger ones) are at the point where they are jaded by the act of voting. Sure, I can cast a vote for someone, but what difference does it make in changing the government? The government isn't like some small-town legislature where single people can stand up and closely represent their fellow citizens. Everyone is taking money from someone at the end of the day to get elected, and that someone is rich people. Us "normal people" are worthless to political representatives at the end of day - it doesn't matter what the party is. Honestly, getting votes from people is just a formality for elected officials at this point, and once elected, all the attention goes to the rich people that financed the campaign in order to "pay them back".
You should keep voting, so you keep the hope for a good candidate to come along, so you don't get out of the habit of keeping up with politics, and so you send a clear signal that you still believe in the democratic process for whenever it becomes relevant again.
The small participation rate in voting empowers the actual voters. If only 50% show up then each of those voters effectively voices preferences for 2 people (his/herself and another person who didn’t vote). It’s all about perception. Votes are also more valued (by a lot) in swing states.
Well when it comes to corporate interests you literally have the GOP party shut down Net Neutrality while the DNC has made preserving NN a party platform and plan on acting legislation when they gain back control.
Claiming that both sides favor corporations is to deny reality when it comes to voting records. Republicans have consistently passed legislation that hurt consumers and benefit corporations, another recent example was banning consumers ability to start class action lawsuits against banks.
You have the DNC legislature that was enabled to create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, a bureau that the GOP voted whole-hardheartedly against and continue to weaken now that they control Congress and the Senate. You have the GOP that put a pro-corporate Justice on SCOTUS that thinks employees should be punished when they aren't willing to risk their life in literal life and death circumstances in ransAm Trucking v. Administrative Review Board.
I'm sorry but there is clearly one party that cares about people and it ain't the fucking GOP.
Claiming that both sides favor corporations is to deny reality when it comes to voting records. Republicans have consistently passed legislation that hurt consumers and benefit corporations, another recent example was banning consumers ability to start class action lawsuits against banks.
You have the DNC legislature that was enabled to create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, a bureau that the GOP voted whole-hardheartedly against and continue to weaken now that they control Congress and the Senate. You have the GOP that put a pro-corporate Justice on SCOTUS that thinks employees should be punished when they aren't willing to risk their life in literal life and death circumstances in ransAm Trucking v. Administrative Review Board.
I'm sorry but there is clearly one party that cares about people and it ain't the fucking GOP.
Whichever party won the election would be the one bought by corporations and championing repeal of net neutrality, while their opposition would be for net neutrality.
But that is not what happened when obama was pres. When is party, the dems were the majority, they did things against corps. He wasn't perfect, but a lot of his behavior was organized around pushing things through that plenty of corps hated, like the consumer financial protection bureau.
Serious question here: Have you ever worked in any form of US gov't?
If not, I'd suggest that you block out some time to do so. You might find the experience to be illuminating.
Whether it be local, state, or federal government, it all works pretty much the same way. And none of it, despite peoples' cries, is functioning outside of how it was designed to.
If not, I'd suggest that you block out some time to do so. You might find the experience to be illuminating.
Whether it be local, state, or federal government, it all works pretty much the same way. And none of it, despite peoples' cries, is functioning outside of how it was designed to.
I’ve volunteered for a campaign and worked for a large federal project. I do agree that they’re functioning within acceptable parameters. But the voting system itself is why we only have 2 viable parties that essentially define one another.
Thanks for replying. Though I've never worked on a campaign, I imagine that it's a slightly different animal. And without knowing which project you worked on I'd guess similarly. That said, experience in either would probably expose you to the pervasive paternalism and disdain for the "general public" permeating through (most forms of) American gov't.
Ironically, my observation is that gov't employment is often less about knowledge/expertise and more about friendsies, patronage/quotas and malleability/docility.
@ this point, I'm not convinced that the current state of affairs doesn't reflect the complicity of "the people" (who are constantly reminded to aim for "middle-class" (mediocrity)).
Since we'd be working with the same public, changing the # of parties would still likely yield the same result. And I say that as someone who regularly votes on positions not parties or candidates (and is often criticized for doing so).
Ironically, my observation is that gov't employment is often less about knowledge/expertise and more about friendsies, patronage/quotas and malleability/docility.
@ this point, I'm not convinced that the current state of affairs doesn't reflect the complicity of "the people" (who are constantly reminded to aim for "middle-class" (mediocrity)).
Since we'd be working with the same public, changing the # of parties would still likely yield the same result. And I say that as someone who regularly votes on positions not parties or candidates (and is often criticized for doing so).
Someone really needs to stand up and say college is not worth it for many people. But it's a hard sell.
Usually people get advised to 'follow their dreams' -- which can mean a couple of years of boredom and stress followed by huge debt.
Usually people get advised to 'follow their dreams' -- which can mean a couple of years of boredom and stress followed by huge debt.
Where will those who while in college don't factor into employment stats go if not there?
Also, think of all of the active voters (professors, administrators, etc...) who will be mighty upset if the paychecks and pensions go unfunded because the young stopped going.
Musical group Sublime has a song titled "April 29, 1992"[0] that describes this in great detail, from a first-person perspective. They lyrically describe the theft/riot angle being catharsis for years of police oppression.
"Everybody in the hood has had it into here. It's getting harder and harder and harder every year... They said it was for the black man, they said it was for the Mexican[s], and not for the white man - but if you look at the streets, It wasn't about Rodney King. It's this [expletive] situation and [expletive] police. It's about coming up, and staying on top, and [showing dominance over] an [expletive] cop."
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1dPKfxRhk0
"Everybody in the hood has had it into here. It's getting harder and harder and harder every year... They said it was for the black man, they said it was for the Mexican[s], and not for the white man - but if you look at the streets, It wasn't about Rodney King. It's this [expletive] situation and [expletive] police. It's about coming up, and staying on top, and [showing dominance over] an [expletive] cop."
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1dPKfxRhk0
I was there too. Ask Korean store owners what the riot was about.
There are a few Hacker News readers who don't know any Korean shopkeepers in LA. Could you just tell us what they think they riot was about?
Here's another video about the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An8LJ_fv0mo
I think it was Atty. Kim's project. And while I think the piece has some valid points, I think the 'conservative' political bent does the work some disservice. I watched it with a Korean friend, who actually tapped out early.
Anyway, and this is key to my longer post above, Koreatown was viewed by 'politicians/the affluent' as buffer zone. As is shown in the video, the police didn't respond to the looting here-- because the hope was that the rioters would effectively tire themselves out and avoid the 'important' areas.
No one really cared that rioters pillaged their own areas... There was moderate concern about Koreatown, but as it was in close proximity to the heart of the riots AND the concern of a group of political insignificance, they too were expendable.
'Divide and (keep) Conquer(ed)' is part of what social and urban planning is all about.
I think it was Atty. Kim's project. And while I think the piece has some valid points, I think the 'conservative' political bent does the work some disservice. I watched it with a Korean friend, who actually tapped out early.
Anyway, and this is key to my longer post above, Koreatown was viewed by 'politicians/the affluent' as buffer zone. As is shown in the video, the police didn't respond to the looting here-- because the hope was that the rioters would effectively tire themselves out and avoid the 'important' areas.
No one really cared that rioters pillaged their own areas... There was moderate concern about Koreatown, but as it was in close proximity to the heart of the riots AND the concern of a group of political insignificance, they too were expendable.
'Divide and (keep) Conquer(ed)' is part of what social and urban planning is all about.
Nope. The affected people speak very well for themselves. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYT9Hew9ZU
Interesting video. Thanks for sharing.
I was cringing at how the gentleman was standing in the open. Find cover!
However, nobody in the video answered the question of what the riots were about, except one person said that it was mostly Hispanics looting, rather than African Americans. But that's demographics, not "why".
I was cringing at how the gentleman was standing in the open. Find cover!
However, nobody in the video answered the question of what the riots were about, except one person said that it was mostly Hispanics looting, rather than African Americans. But that's demographics, not "why".
>Its possible to push the majority of people so hard that you reach a social breaking point, suddenly things can go from seeming to be normal to a sudden social collapse.
People learned from that. Unfortunately they learned the wrong thing: a massive militarization of society and a politics of fear date from this period. My gf's kid just had "active shooter prep" at school -- prepping for an almost nonexistent threat, while ignoring things that actually kill kids, like choking or traffic). So now we see things like what happened in Fergeson: massive numbers of police with military gear, simply amping up the experience.
I think what may be different now is that the middle classes are getting fucked as well. You have to belong to rebel. Revolutions (despite the rhetoric) never start from below; they inevitably are either elites against elites, or upper middle classes against elites. The yeoman farmer with a rifle has never been the base of any rebellion.
And the elites have prepared: legitimate protest is to be met with massive show of force.
People learned from that. Unfortunately they learned the wrong thing: a massive militarization of society and a politics of fear date from this period. My gf's kid just had "active shooter prep" at school -- prepping for an almost nonexistent threat, while ignoring things that actually kill kids, like choking or traffic). So now we see things like what happened in Fergeson: massive numbers of police with military gear, simply amping up the experience.
I think what may be different now is that the middle classes are getting fucked as well. You have to belong to rebel. Revolutions (despite the rhetoric) never start from below; they inevitably are either elites against elites, or upper middle classes against elites. The yeoman farmer with a rifle has never been the base of any rebellion.
And the elites have prepared: legitimate protest is to be met with massive show of force.
This really feels like another world. Here is a confession, I have stopped believing people need to be informed, to be made aware.
I think most of us, adults know exactly what is happening, the consequences of capitalism, the reality of our societies, the reality of poverty, the reality of a large number of people struggling, suffering, sad, desperate, unhappy.
We have a sophisticated mental model to deal with it, we pretend it doesn't exist, untill you are absolutely forced to confront it, at which point you may signal, posture, be shocked, but life goes on. Our systems fundamentally and deeply reward unethical behavior and greed, and humans are survivors, we survive.
I think most of us, adults know exactly what is happening, the consequences of capitalism, the reality of our societies, the reality of poverty, the reality of a large number of people struggling, suffering, sad, desperate, unhappy.
We have a sophisticated mental model to deal with it, we pretend it doesn't exist, untill you are absolutely forced to confront it, at which point you may signal, posture, be shocked, but life goes on. Our systems fundamentally and deeply reward unethical behavior and greed, and humans are survivors, we survive.
People have a profound disagreement over the meaning of 'capitalism' so I don't think it's a useful term.
The fact is that poverty has been dropping markedly over the years due to the free market and 'capitalism'.
We tend to see crises because they're short term and fail to see the benefits because they happen over generations.
I suspect what is really happening here is that the USA (and similar countries) are getting closer in gdp/capita to other rising countries.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/world-population-in-extre...
The fact is that poverty has been dropping markedly over the years due to the free market and 'capitalism'.
We tend to see crises because they're short term and fail to see the benefits because they happen over generations.
I suspect what is really happening here is that the USA (and similar countries) are getting closer in gdp/capita to other rising countries.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/world-population-in-extre...
'during' not necessarily 'due to'
There not much the individual can do about it. It's not feasible for me as a consumer to do proper research into the backgrounds behind my products and companies that I use. It's barely feasible for me to even be confident I'm buying quality goods at all.
And if I do, I will be paying higher prices for the same lifestyle as my neighbors. At the consumer level this is fine, but at the business level my company will fail. My competition has saved enough money by using cheaper services that they can hire a PR firm to establish them as a 'humans first' company by brand, regardless of what is actually happening behind the scenes.
So I lose on both fronts for being responsible.
It's a problem that can only be fixed with regulation.
And if I do, I will be paying higher prices for the same lifestyle as my neighbors. At the consumer level this is fine, but at the business level my company will fail. My competition has saved enough money by using cheaper services that they can hire a PR firm to establish them as a 'humans first' company by brand, regardless of what is actually happening behind the scenes.
So I lose on both fronts for being responsible.
It's a problem that can only be fixed with regulation.
> I will be paying higher prices for the same lifestyle as my neighbors. At the consumer level this is fine, but at the business level my company will fail.
I don't follow. If a portion of consumers like yourself are willing to pay higher prices to uphold their values, who are they paying higher prices to if not businesses that are conforming to those values?
I don't follow. If a portion of consumers like yourself are willing to pay higher prices to uphold their values, who are they paying higher prices to if not businesses that are conforming to those values?
To a customer there's no visible difference between a company that claims to uphold those values selling the product for $20, and a company actually upholding those values that sells the same thing for $30.
Undercover reporting on temporary workers, with a focus on legal violations and enforcement, rather than helplessness: http://projects.thestar.com/temp-employment-agencies/
Largest improvement in labor protections for “precarious workers” in two decades, but still no liability for injuries to temp workers: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/gta/20...
Largest improvement in labor protections for “precarious workers” in two decades, but still no liability for injuries to temp workers: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/gta/20...
Adding on top of that that 95% of all jobs created in the US since 2008 are temp jobs and you begin to see the true cost.
Ah, yes! But the stock market is going gangbusters. Surely the temp workers are huge beneficiaries of that. /s
Time to close the 'contractor' loophole?
lol j/k, the man would never let that happen
(alternatively, completely separate out benefits from wages by law, or whatever other changes that would make it not always the correct business move to hire as few people as possible)
lol j/k, the man would never let that happen
(alternatively, completely separate out benefits from wages by law, or whatever other changes that would make it not always the correct business move to hire as few people as possible)
Temp workers are W2 employees of temp staffing agencies.
How about let's provision healthcare, retirement, etc. directly to all citizens, instead of getting angry at/banning jobs that don't provide them.
How about let's provision healthcare, retirement, etc. directly to all citizens, instead of getting angry at/banning jobs that don't provide them.
Agreed.
But ya, in previous life my job duties included making sure none of my fake subordinates ran into any co-employment issues, such as drinking the free office coffee. We were employed by a staffing company, we 'worked' for the company whose office we sat in, and because they had me to say "do what this guy tells you to do" instead of that guy just telling him what to do, we could still qualify as contractors.
But ya, in previous life my job duties included making sure none of my fake subordinates ran into any co-employment issues, such as drinking the free office coffee. We were employed by a staffing company, we 'worked' for the company whose office we sat in, and because they had me to say "do what this guy tells you to do" instead of that guy just telling him what to do, we could still qualify as contractors.
Pro-rate everything.
Then there's no incentive to cut apart a single real job in to multiple small ones 'to save money'. (Though there may be reason to take a partial job EG during school hours for parents.)
Then there's no incentive to cut apart a single real job in to multiple small ones 'to save money'. (Though there may be reason to take a partial job EG during school hours for parents.)
it's not that temp jobs are bad. It's more that they really aren't designed to be someone's sole source of income. The issue is the lack of real jobs created by the internet/tech boom; we need more retail chains and less amazon.
Jobs aren't designed to do anything except fulfill the employer's needs at minimal cost. We need to stop waiting around for employers to start looking out for their employees' interests and start forcing them to.
I wonder how fast you'd get blacklisted if you mumbled something about unionising whilst on one of these jobs. Maybe outside union organisers could start turning up; they'd probably get roughed up by security and ultimately arrested, but the cycle has to go through that phase again before it reaches the next phase.
No it's that a lot (most?) of those temp jobs are really just jobs, but with a different label.
While I have done my share of this kind of work when I was young, this is still horrible. I remember Richard Linklater's book Generation X had a couple of rules I still live by.
1. Don't eat yourself
2. Don't eat other people
If we could live by these two rules, there would be no Ghost Economy.
1. Don't eat yourself
2. Don't eat other people
If we could live by these two rules, there would be no Ghost Economy.
I definitely don't do those things.
Could you explain that better?
I'm not into cannibalism, not a Survivor Type either https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_Type
Or is it sexual?
I'm not into cannibalism, not a Survivor Type either https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_Type
Or is it sexual?
I read it as burning out is eating yourself. Working too much regardless of the income, regardless of burnout or not is eating yourself.
I believe its metaphorical cannibalism.
I spent much of the summer after my senior year of high school working temp jobs, earning minimum wage. This was the early 90s in Northeast Ohio. There was a lot of light manufacturing and I mostly worked in factories in Twinsburg. One job I even shrink wrapped Sun OpenWindows manuals. It was clear to me then that the factories required the temp agency to fill out the workforce, especially for the less desirable jobs like stacking boxes on pallettes at the end of a manufacturing line.
One day I was sent to a medical equipment warehouse. Another worker and I were assigned to untangle a pile of hospital beds easily 12 feet high. We were supposed to climb on it and free each frame. The bedsprings were snagged on each other and the pile was unstable. I called the temp agency, said the job was too dangerous and walked out. I wanted the money but I was lucky enough that I didn't need it.
One day I was sent to a medical equipment warehouse. Another worker and I were assigned to untangle a pile of hospital beds easily 12 feet high. We were supposed to climb on it and free each frame. The bedsprings were snagged on each other and the pile was unstable. I called the temp agency, said the job was too dangerous and walked out. I wanted the money but I was lucky enough that I didn't need it.
This is a really great read. I wrote about my experiences with this and although I don't go as deeply into detail, and although I wasn't as low as these ghosts she talks about, I did see and feel some terrible things.
I'll never forget the feeling of being treated as a resource over a person.
http://russell.ballestrini.net/how-to-work-from-home-the-roa...
I'll never forget the feeling of being treated as a resource over a person.
http://russell.ballestrini.net/how-to-work-from-home-the-roa...
A Toronto Star reporter went undercover for over a month to expose the abuse temp workers suffer. The article was published this year. I recommend that you read it for more concrete examples of the shadiness temp agencies get away with.
http://projects.thestar.com/temp-employment-agencies/
http://projects.thestar.com/temp-employment-agencies/
This article's final words, say it all.
@fithisux is referring to:
"This feature has been supported by the journalism nonprofit Economic Hardship Reporting Project.
Melissa Chadburn is a fellow for Economic Hardship Reporting Project. Her essay, “The Throwaways,” received notable mention in Best American Essays and Best American Nonrequired Reading. Her debut novel, A Tiny Upward Shove, is forthcoming with Farrar, Straus, and Giroux."
"This feature has been supported by the journalism nonprofit Economic Hardship Reporting Project.
Melissa Chadburn is a fellow for Economic Hardship Reporting Project. Her essay, “The Throwaways,” received notable mention in Best American Essays and Best American Nonrequired Reading. Her debut novel, A Tiny Upward Shove, is forthcoming with Farrar, Straus, and Giroux."
I’m not sure what the implication is here. That the author’s words aren’t important or true because she has a book coming out?
I wish every entitled brat that is born with a free ticket to Harvard and a potential career in congress would have to live this life first..
Welcome to the horrors of capitalism.