“This Is Serious”: Facebook Begins Its Downward Spiral(vanityfair.com)
vanityfair.com
“This Is Serious”: Facebook Begins Its Downward Spiral
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/01/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-downward-spiral
39 comments
> Facebook is a very good product - as a social CRM and messaging service, no one even comes close.
No, not really. Messenger is the worst messaging app I am obliged to use daily; perhaps tied with Slack. All of my friends with whom I’ve discussed this agree, but the sheer number of people we would like to chat with that use Messenger, plus Facebook’s refusal to support open standards, means Messenger’s quality is irrelevant.
No, not really. Messenger is the worst messaging app I am obliged to use daily; perhaps tied with Slack. All of my friends with whom I’ve discussed this agree, but the sheer number of people we would like to chat with that use Messenger, plus Facebook’s refusal to support open standards, means Messenger’s quality is irrelevant.
What messaging app(s) do you prefer to use?
> Facebook is a very good product - as a social CRM and messaging service, no one even comes close.
Not sure I would say Facebook is a 'very good product'. It's okay. The main thing Facebook has going for it is the userbase and in that respect the only company that has a chance is google who really botched things with g+.
Not sure I would say Facebook is a 'very good product'. It's okay. The main thing Facebook has going for it is the userbase and in that respect the only company that has a chance is google who really botched things with g+.
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You said Facebook’s reputation is a disaster. Then talked about Instagram. I wonder how many people overall know Instagram is owned by Facebook. Anecdotally all my younger cousins and relatives didn’t know when I posed the question. My friends are hit or miss.
Although I’m not sure if you brought up the Instagram example to illustrate social media in general having a reputation problem. Which it does. But people still use some sort of social media by and large (less so on sites like this of course).
Although I’m not sure if you brought up the Instagram example to illustrate social media in general having a reputation problem. Which it does. But people still use some sort of social media by and large (less so on sites like this of course).
> When I joined Facebook people were often sharing statuses and updates.
Yep. Facebook has lost this aspect and is now just a link aggregator.
Yep. Facebook has lost this aspect and is now just a link aggregator.
Forced read receipts on messenger are the worst
This has been a long time coming. Facebook went too far, and they did finally push too hard. Creating divides is great for growth early on, but if you do nothing to repair the rifts you make, the structure cannot continue to stand.
His ruthlessness, and the change in facebook as it becomes something annoying and self serving, rather than serving the needs of its users who try to connect to each other. Facebook now charges pages to show stuff to users who've liked it - indicating that they ALREADY want to see things from that page.
This sort of extortionist double dipping is the kind of thing which ruins a social network. This, along with numerous privacy violations, ridiculous degrees of data mining, and more... good riddance.
His ruthlessness, and the change in facebook as it becomes something annoying and self serving, rather than serving the needs of its users who try to connect to each other. Facebook now charges pages to show stuff to users who've liked it - indicating that they ALREADY want to see things from that page.
This sort of extortionist double dipping is the kind of thing which ruins a social network. This, along with numerous privacy violations, ridiculous degrees of data mining, and more... good riddance.
Best decision of 2017 was deleting my Facebook account. I encourage everyone to do the same. Next step is getting off of Gmail / Google Services, which I also started last year by using duckduckgo full-time.
I've been trying duckduckgo for the last month and just don't find it as good, all to often I'll be searching for a local shop, and even including my town name and it will give me America results. I really want to like it, as I feel too tied up with Google, but it's just not there yet. Still powering on though.
Does anyone know which contact and calendar services to use? I want easy syncing with my phones and devices.
Also i gave up Google search a long time ago. DDG at the time wasn’t good enough so I moved to Bing. I stuck with it through now. I do have to use Google for certain hard searches or roughly 5% of the time.
Also i gave up Google search a long time ago. DDG at the time wasn’t good enough so I moved to Bing. I stuck with it through now. I do have to use Google for certain hard searches or roughly 5% of the time.
I'm paying for FastMail and using their calendar and contact book.
On Android I had to buy CardDAV and CalDAV sync apps. They're cheap and it is a one off fee.
Works well for me!
I particularly like that Android (like Palm back in the day) has central calendar data. So I can still use aCalendar+ as my calendar app. And Ocado (grocery delivery) app can still add delivery slots, even though I've changed calendar provider.
It's super satisfying to have all Google account syncing turned off on my phone.
On Android I had to buy CardDAV and CalDAV sync apps. They're cheap and it is a one off fee.
Works well for me!
I particularly like that Android (like Palm back in the day) has central calendar data. So I can still use aCalendar+ as my calendar app. And Ocado (grocery delivery) app can still add delivery slots, even though I've changed calendar provider.
It's super satisfying to have all Google account syncing turned off on my phone.
I miss Palm and WebOS. Thanks for the tip.
What are you replacing gmail with?
Probably Protonmail, but not sure yet as it's still on my todo list.
fastmail
I quit FB in 2009, so I'm ignorant of what it has been like since then. I thought I would be forever labeled a crank for not participating. I have noticed with some happiness the creeping realization among people that FB might not be a force that changes humanity for the better.
In 2009 it was definitely seen as unusual not to participate. In my experience by around 2014 people had stopped asking "why" when learning I didn't have facebook. I think the desire to be "free of it" for the various meanings of that phrase have become well understood public knowledge. I'm happy to see social decluttering trend towards being a cultural norm.
I came late to the fb quitting game - quit Xmas 2016 and while I am a pretty boringly stable person, my mental health has been greatly improved since I've been off. I didn't realise how it was affecting me at the time but it made me anxious, needy, boastful and shallow in my friendships.
Since leaving I actually talk with friends a lot more, and when I wonder how an old friend is doing I reach out or try and meet up. Much better than just stalking their fb profile and offering a like or two.
Now if I could just quit surfing the net on my phone all the damn time...
Since leaving I actually talk with friends a lot more, and when I wonder how an old friend is doing I reach out or try and meet up. Much better than just stalking their fb profile and offering a like or two.
Now if I could just quit surfing the net on my phone all the damn time...
I don't think Facebook is the real problem when it comes to splitting the world. The users are the problem. People are so divided because they are getting information in silos. They end up seeing the world they want to see. And if it is not Facebook, it's going to be someone else.
If facebook wants to be a part of fixing this, which is questionable as the article points out, they need to start exposing people to alternate opinions, rather than enforcing the ones people already have. Facebook is actually in a position to do this. They should of course start slowly with more moderate opinions. But they shouldn't move away from news. They should double down, with more, diverse news.
If facebook wants to be a part of fixing this, which is questionable as the article points out, they need to start exposing people to alternate opinions, rather than enforcing the ones people already have. Facebook is actually in a position to do this. They should of course start slowly with more moderate opinions. But they shouldn't move away from news. They should double down, with more, diverse news.
Facebook has become the landline telephone. You dont want to get rid of it, it's good for keeping in touch with those few people you don't see often, it's pretty much all spam, and its increasingly bundled in to shit you use so its actually more annoying to outright cancel it than just ignore it.
It's interesting that you mention landlines. I feel like I've been slightly ahead of the curve in giving up: a landline (~2005), cable (~2007), and Facebook (2014).
Twitter and Instagram still exist on my phone, and I have the occasional desire to push content to them, but I haven't in about a year.
I feel about the experience of swimming through other people's political ideas and vacation and/or kids photos the way I imagine an alcoholic feels about drinking: I've tried that and it made me miserable.
The fact that my wife still uses social media means a truly important child photo or life event eventually makes its way to me.
Twitter and Instagram still exist on my phone, and I have the occasional desire to push content to them, but I haven't in about a year.
I feel about the experience of swimming through other people's political ideas and vacation and/or kids photos the way I imagine an alcoholic feels about drinking: I've tried that and it made me miserable.
The fact that my wife still uses social media means a truly important child photo or life event eventually makes its way to me.
I feel like picking this article apart.
First three paras - Zuck is bad dude for doing what businesses have been doing for centuries if not millenia - stealing ideas and poaching employees. Look hard enough at VF's history and I feel confident you'll find the same behaviors.
Next para - Summary of FB's status.
Next two paras - FB turns out to not be a panacea for social isolation, not a classmates.com on steroids. Like other forms of communication (e.g. TV), it amplifies some human frailties. I am old enough to remember when serial killers would taunt TV stations. People blamed TV for that, maybe with some justification. FB's problem, it seems, stems from its democratization of opinion, especially when it plays a role, however minor, in generating a political outcome that some people dislike.
Next three paras - The bloom is off the rose for FB and other social media sites. Too many stories / rumors about surveillance / psychological manipulation abound, and social media is paying a price for that. The sharks, disguised as regulators and other social paladins, are circling, and giving Zuck et al. a taste of their own medicine. Worded quite speculatively, I might add.
Last two paras - Additional speculation about FB's long-term viability and some whistful karmic comeuppance conjuring.
First three paras - Zuck is bad dude for doing what businesses have been doing for centuries if not millenia - stealing ideas and poaching employees. Look hard enough at VF's history and I feel confident you'll find the same behaviors.
Next para - Summary of FB's status.
Next two paras - FB turns out to not be a panacea for social isolation, not a classmates.com on steroids. Like other forms of communication (e.g. TV), it amplifies some human frailties. I am old enough to remember when serial killers would taunt TV stations. People blamed TV for that, maybe with some justification. FB's problem, it seems, stems from its democratization of opinion, especially when it plays a role, however minor, in generating a political outcome that some people dislike.
Next three paras - The bloom is off the rose for FB and other social media sites. Too many stories / rumors about surveillance / psychological manipulation abound, and social media is paying a price for that. The sharks, disguised as regulators and other social paladins, are circling, and giving Zuck et al. a taste of their own medicine. Worded quite speculatively, I might add.
Last two paras - Additional speculation about FB's long-term viability and some whistful karmic comeuppance conjuring.
Facebook exceeded all of our goodwill and patience as consumers as almost no other company ever has. Deceit is their goto. After all, Zuckerberg (while young at the time) did call his own users 'dumb fucks' if I recall when asked why they share things with Facebook. That says everything you need to know. I will also mention I have heard this same narrative for the past 7 years.
I'm still waiting for GDPR to become active before I'm deleting my account. While I'm quite certain that Facebook will still keep my data (somehow), they'll have a harder time using it without completely scrubbing any personal details.
An interesting article for sure. I sure wouldn't have predicted what happened to digg.com.
Also with automatic videos playing on so many sites, mixed with bandwidth limitations set by telcos, some users might opt out of websites that do that to save on bandwidth.
Also with automatic videos playing on so many sites, mixed with bandwidth limitations set by telcos, some users might opt out of websites that do that to save on bandwidth.
> Years ago .. the young founder reached out to a friend of mine who had also started a company
What was the name of the C.E.O, the name of the company and the nature of the product?
What was the name of the C.E.O, the name of the company and the nature of the product?
Facebook & zuckerberg are victims of it's own success. Inherent to social networks, is the network effects power law which makes Facebook incredibly power. It's that enormous power which seems to be the root cause which leads people to be so suspicious of it. Great power, requires great responsibility
It's interesting to note, that when Obama used the platform to get elected, no one minded. But, when the opposing party does it, everyone judges it negatively.
It's interesting to note, that when Obama used the platform to get elected, no one minded. But, when the opposing party does it, everyone judges it negatively.
> It's that enormous power which seems to be the root cause which leads people to be so suspicious of it
I would say it was their behaving suspiciously that causes people to be suspicious of it.
> when Obama used the platform to get elected, no one minded. But, when the opposing party does it, everyone judges it negatively
At the risk of getting too political, I believe only one of those campaigns has been confirmed by the company to have been operated in part by foreign powers actively attempting to subvert the election. That's a bit beyond "i like the one guy better" as far as reasons for judgement go.
I would say it was their behaving suspiciously that causes people to be suspicious of it.
> when Obama used the platform to get elected, no one minded. But, when the opposing party does it, everyone judges it negatively
At the risk of getting too political, I believe only one of those campaigns has been confirmed by the company to have been operated in part by foreign powers actively attempting to subvert the election. That's a bit beyond "i like the one guy better" as far as reasons for judgement go.
The difference was Obama wasn't subverting fact or allowing foreign governments and financial interests to covertly "muddy the waters". I don't think the world understood in 2008 how that could happen, and in deed, Facebook wasn't touching nearly as many lives a decade ago.
During the 2016 election, FB reared its head as the ugly pot of social unrest we now know it to be. We learned a lot about "echo chambers", "fake news", "us/them", the "alt-right", etc. And we heard a lot about how these fun little social networks we're tooling around on may not be the panacea we thought.
Mix that with the outpouring of emotion following the election of possibly the least likely candidate in history, and you've got the backlash you describe.
Oh, and Obama won the popular election. Twice.
Oh, and Obama won the popular election. Twice.
You mean when the Russians use the platform to get Donald Trump elected?
I think that Countrywide Mortgage had a great deal more to do with Obama's election in 2008 than Facebook or any other such platform.
> It's interesting to note, that when Obama used the platform to get elected, no one minded. But, when the opposing party does it, everyone judges it negatively.
When history sandwiches you between two world leaders with an apparently combined IQ of 2, people might let some questionable things slip.
When history sandwiches you between two world leaders with an apparently combined IQ of 2, people might let some questionable things slip.
All the metrics and evidence are to the contrary - Facebook is growing from strength to strength.
We may all dislike Facebook & Uber, but the fact is that they're growing despite negative press. The reason is probably because of being leaders in spaces that are valuable & essential.
We may all dislike Facebook & Uber, but the fact is that they're growing despite negative press. The reason is probably because of being leaders in spaces that are valuable & essential.
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Off topic: It annoys me to no end, the sheer hubris required, to enable 2FA with codes (e.g. Google Authenticator) you must first enable 2FA by SMS and give them your phone number. The UI won't let me multifactor with an OTP app alone, these dicks are always doing a shake down for my phone number.
This policy, and so many others, come from an attitude. And it's the attitude people are realizing they don't like, never liked, and are less inclined to overlook.
This policy, and so many others, come from an attitude. And it's the attitude people are realizing they don't like, never liked, and are less inclined to overlook.
Its reputation, however, is a total disaster. Last week when someone posed the theory that Instagram strategically holds likes from users who they determine as needing to use the site more (apparently untrue), most people took at as fact. Hell I did.
And why wouldn't you. Every time you add a friend on Facebook it gives you a fake notification on Messenger. Everytime you go on your Instagram profile it nudges you to give away your cell number. They've broken the mobile site as much as possible (to drive app installs), and made it so you need messenger as a separate app. Zuckerberg can pretend it's all about "community" and "coming together" but only a fool would take a look at how Facebook works and conclude that's how things are currently set up. When I joined Facebook people were often sharing statuses and updates. But that's not happening anymore (and hasn't for quite some time). Growth hacking might make sense when you're a scrappy startup and desperate for engagement, but it's user-hostile when you hit Facebook's size.
Good riddance.