Student Loan Debt Clock(collegedebt.com)
collegedebt.com
Student Loan Debt Clock
http://collegedebt.com/
56 comments
Do you think we asked the colleges to turn us into profit centers? College costs have gone up because bureuacracy has bloated. By the times undergrads figure it out it's too late. If you actually went to school to study and ended up in insane amounts of debt (like I did) you wish you hadn't gone even though you were happy to have learned what you did. It's a shitty double edged sword.
Not everyone can get scholarships and school isn't easy/cheap enough to make paying for it an option by working through school. Not if you want a real job after school.
Frankly it should be free. Why are you charging people to better themselves and their surroundings. It's obscene that we charge people for healthcare and schools.
The United States is a corporate neocon fantasy world. Low taxes for the rich, student loans for all.
Not everyone can get scholarships and school isn't easy/cheap enough to make paying for it an option by working through school. Not if you want a real job after school.
Frankly it should be free. Why are you charging people to better themselves and their surroundings. It's obscene that we charge people for healthcare and schools.
The United States is a corporate neocon fantasy world. Low taxes for the rich, student loans for all.
neoliberal, not neocon.
neocon is global war in support of US oligarchical economic interests.
neoliberal is global free markets in support of global oligarchical economic interests
neocon is global war in support of US oligarchical economic interests.
neoliberal is global free markets in support of global oligarchical economic interests
I work at a University, its a 501c3 Jesuit institution, budgets and salaries are very lean. As a software developer I make 1/2 of market but I get free tuition. We receive dollars from FAFSA but little else due to our religious status. And yet, tuition is still high despite the amount of annual fund raising we perform. For our university tuition is 35k for a year, 17.5k for a semester or $1k per credit hour with most courses being 3 credit hours. Why does college cost so much? I've been working at one for 10 years now. I can state that its because operating a college is fucking expensive. Country club atmosphere my ass, we're packing these fucking sardines into closets because we've run out of housing! Why? Because in the ambition to keep tuition low and accessible to all students including all the scholarships we dish out we've got fucking nothing for building new dorms. Oh you want a rent a place off campus? Hah! Good luck finding an studio for under $1400 a month in this neighborhood that's half ghetto, half gentrified $500k row homes. This isn't a government in the pot problem, the truth of it is its an inflation problem. The cost of EVERYTHING has gone up, not just college, household wages have not increased to meet demand. "But little Johnny can stay at home and go to school." I hear you say. Nope, many, if not most, colleges require freshmen to live on campus at least one year. Furthermore, you often have parents that want their children to attend their alma mater. Stupid as that may be it often leads to parents shipping their kids all over the fucking place despite what the child's wishes may be. Bureaucracy? Nope, I'll admit there is bureaucracy but its not the cause of the problem and its certainly not the cost. "B-b-b-b-but big gubment!" I hear you retort. What big government? You think all schools are fat cat librals sitting on their tenure teaching communism to gentle minds? Man fuck you. You're the problem. The real reason college costs are so high is because of all the poor people we give scholarships to so disadvantaged students can have a chance at life outside of the situation they were born into. The problem is cutting taxes on rich twats that don't want to give back. Give em all free college and subsidize it off every schmuck that doesn't give a fuck if some poor kid chokes to death in the ashes of the trailer park they were born in.
You realize there's a much wider spectrum of the university and college experiences that are financially supported by student loans than "country-club atmosphere far away from home", right? And that these are not solely used by "kids"? If so, then I would hope your internal question would reflect that level of nuance.
Or you know, we can have free college tuition like other sane and not nearly as wealthy countries do.
Australia uses inflation-adjusted, zero-interest loans which are paid back like extra tax once your income is over a certain threshold. I think it’s a pretty great system, takes a lot of risk out of persuing tertiary education at much, much less of a cost than free tuition.
Really grateful I will be able to graduate debt free. Doing a degree like CS where I can get a great paying internship really helps.
I think the biggest cause for numbers like this is that some of us see it as problem while tons of people see this kind of debt as totally normal. I cringe when I see friends who I know are graduating with large amounts of debt run out and buy a brand new car within months of graduatingbecause they are suddenly making 50-60k and feel like they've got it made.
Most of the time it'll all work out just fine, but I can't help bit think that there's a better way.
I think the biggest cause for numbers like this is that some of us see it as problem while tons of people see this kind of debt as totally normal. I cringe when I see friends who I know are graduating with large amounts of debt run out and buy a brand new car within months of graduatingbecause they are suddenly making 50-60k and feel like they've got it made.
Most of the time it'll all work out just fine, but I can't help bit think that there's a better way.
I'm not sure about "just fine". For many (especially in the software profession), the difference between doing "OK" and being well-off in later years is that new car.
Paying off debt early at that point in one's career is more profitable than investing, even.
Paying off debt early at that point in one's career is more profitable than investing, even.
> Paying off debt early at that point in one's career is more profitable than investing, even.
Not necessarily true. My student loans had an interest rate of around 4%. The market is about double that. This means that if I invest everything, and pay off my loans slowly, I eek out a few extra bucks.
I actually did that math and decided it was wiser to eliminate my debt. Total net worth isn't really the goal, not worrying about money is the goal. And not having to worry about monthly payments, and knowing I have no outstanding debts is much nicer.
Not necessarily true. My student loans had an interest rate of around 4%. The market is about double that. This means that if I invest everything, and pay off my loans slowly, I eek out a few extra bucks.
I actually did that math and decided it was wiser to eliminate my debt. Total net worth isn't really the goal, not worrying about money is the goal. And not having to worry about monthly payments, and knowing I have no outstanding debts is much nicer.
The same thing is true with having a house. Sure, the math works out in favor of holding the debt and investing in the market. However, this logic has never sat well with me because it assumes that you can predict your situation for 30 years.
The conspiratorial part of mind suggests that finance is more invested in having people in debt than without, and the math is there to beat people over the head saying "you are not playing this game well because this math says you will lose in the end"
The conspiratorial part of mind suggests that finance is more invested in having people in debt than without, and the math is there to beat people over the head saying "you are not playing this game well because this math says you will lose in the end"
Agreed. If you genuinely do put your extra-money aside, and invest it in index-funds, etc, you will probably end up with a higher return than if you pay off your mortgage early.
That said most people plan to do this, and never get round to it.
I knew I was making a "mistake" when I started putting all my spare money into paying off my mortgage early, in the sense that I could have achieved more money by investing. But it seemed obvious to me that owning my house would let me ride out problems more easily in the future - my bills would suddenly come down to "electricity, food, and little else".
As it happens my wife and I decided at reasonably short notice to change countries. Having paid off my mortgage allowed me to rent out the place, without having to worry about getting permission from the bank, or anything similar. I just had to register as a landlord and switch to a more expensive form of insurance.
After two years of being abroad selling the place made sense, to avoid complex cross-country taxing issues. But by owning the place outright we had the freedom to try renting for a while, and worry less about income.
That said most people plan to do this, and never get round to it.
I knew I was making a "mistake" when I started putting all my spare money into paying off my mortgage early, in the sense that I could have achieved more money by investing. But it seemed obvious to me that owning my house would let me ride out problems more easily in the future - my bills would suddenly come down to "electricity, food, and little else".
As it happens my wife and I decided at reasonably short notice to change countries. Having paid off my mortgage allowed me to rent out the place, without having to worry about getting permission from the bank, or anything similar. I just had to register as a landlord and switch to a more expensive form of insurance.
After two years of being abroad selling the place made sense, to avoid complex cross-country taxing issues. But by owning the place outright we had the freedom to try renting for a while, and worry less about income.
A mortgage is what my SO calls "good debt". Reasonable interest on an appreciating asset. Car notes, on the other hand, may or may not be "bad debt" as the asset depreciates immediately and the interest might be high. Credit card debt is most certainly "bad debt". If you can't pay the card off at the end of the month, then you can't afford whatever it is you actually bought.
Rid yourself of "bad" or "marginally bad" debt immediately, manage the "good" debt, then save (rainy day fund, 401K, IRA, speculation). You're doing well if you get to the speculation part.
Rid yourself of "bad" or "marginally bad" debt immediately, manage the "good" debt, then save (rainy day fund, 401K, IRA, speculation). You're doing well if you get to the speculation part.
You also don't pay income tax on debt interest you saved yourself from accruing.
Wow, you just blew my mind. I never thought about this, and now I need to run to excel...
The ROI was double that up until ~2 weeks ago.
Alternatively, if you pay off debt, that is a known ROI and doesn't disappear after a bad day or week. And that's not counting the psychological benefits of not being in debt. About 10 years ago, I had a car payment, student loan payments, etc, etc and once it was all paid off, I realized I could make $X000/month less and still have the same quality of life. It was empowering and afforded me the ability to take other risks.
Knocking out debt isn't always the best answer but it's a pretty good one in most scenarios.
Alternatively, if you pay off debt, that is a known ROI and doesn't disappear after a bad day or week. And that's not counting the psychological benefits of not being in debt. About 10 years ago, I had a car payment, student loan payments, etc, etc and once it was all paid off, I realized I could make $X000/month less and still have the same quality of life. It was empowering and afforded me the ability to take other risks.
Knocking out debt isn't always the best answer but it's a pretty good one in most scenarios.
> My student loans had an interest rate of around 4%.
That's a tiny fraction of the debt mentioned in the OP. Federal loans are great. Private loans are usurious.
Also, "eke". "Eek" is when the market has a correction that destroys or leveraged plan.
That's a tiny fraction of the debt mentioned in the OP. Federal loans are great. Private loans are usurious.
Also, "eke". "Eek" is when the market has a correction that destroys or leveraged plan.
I think the visual presentation would be better if a monospace font was used for the debt "odometers", so that the different loan types align and so that the student debt amount doesn't jiggle back and forth each time it's changed.
Interesting - shows up monospace and perfectly alligned on my screen (Chrome, Win10)
I fail to see how, since the page CSS uses font-family: 'Varela Round', sans-serif, and varela is not a monospace font.
It may be using tabular numbers, a common feature in many non-monospace fonts.
https://practicaltypography.com/alternate-figures.html#tabul...
https://practicaltypography.com/alternate-figures.html#tabul...
Don't know what to tell you, but it looks like this and it stays aligned through changes:
https://imgur.com/a/k7y0P
My wife and I have spent the first 1,000 days of our marriage paying off $120k in student loans. Fortunately, we both hold good-paying jobs and live in one of the cheapest areas of the country. As a result, we can pay off an average of $3,200/month on the loan while still saving some for retirement and owning a house.
Our rate at the beginning was 6.8%.
A couple of things...
- the student loan interest tax write-off is limited to $2,500/year. The first year of paying off loans, we paid $17,800 in interest. Ergo, I had to pay income tax on the interest I paid to the government for the privilege of an education. It's bizarre to me that we incentivize going to school and then charge income tax on the interest paid. Wealthy folks get to write off all their mortgage interest on their million-dollar mortgages while we pay. It's ridiculous.
- Loan companies provide way too many attractive-looking ways to "reduce your monthly payment" by extending your loan. It's called "income-based repayment." They're creating the appearance of being helpful, while extending the loan and causing interest payments to skyrocket. I get that these services can be crucial to the financial health of some folks but the way they push them makes me uncomfortable.
- Student debt can be a wonderful, life-changing tool. There's no way my wife could have a graduate degree without it. Now she's a fantastic therapist using her considerable skills and abilities to make people's lives better. Do I wish the education didn't cost us 6% of our careers to pay off? Yes I do. But I wouldn't trade it for anything.
- It does feel like we're headed toward a cliff...a cliff where parents are paying off their own student debt while their children are racking up their own.
Our rate at the beginning was 6.8%.
A couple of things...
- the student loan interest tax write-off is limited to $2,500/year. The first year of paying off loans, we paid $17,800 in interest. Ergo, I had to pay income tax on the interest I paid to the government for the privilege of an education. It's bizarre to me that we incentivize going to school and then charge income tax on the interest paid. Wealthy folks get to write off all their mortgage interest on their million-dollar mortgages while we pay. It's ridiculous.
- Loan companies provide way too many attractive-looking ways to "reduce your monthly payment" by extending your loan. It's called "income-based repayment." They're creating the appearance of being helpful, while extending the loan and causing interest payments to skyrocket. I get that these services can be crucial to the financial health of some folks but the way they push them makes me uncomfortable.
- Student debt can be a wonderful, life-changing tool. There's no way my wife could have a graduate degree without it. Now she's a fantastic therapist using her considerable skills and abilities to make people's lives better. Do I wish the education didn't cost us 6% of our careers to pay off? Yes I do. But I wouldn't trade it for anything.
- It does feel like we're headed toward a cliff...a cliff where parents are paying off their own student debt while their children are racking up their own.
Btw, there's no way we could've paid off as quickly as we have without a budgeting tool. We use "YNAB" (You need a Budget).
https://ynab.com/referral/?ref=pnPV1oqAP-ZfH0oI&utm_source=c... (disclosure: referral link. If that makes you feel gross, http://ynab.com)
The budget allows me to confidently spend thousands of dollars each month on student loans, without wondering if I have enough to cover living expenses. Plus, most budgeting tools now will auto-import your bank stuff, which is splendid.
https://ynab.com/referral/?ref=pnPV1oqAP-ZfH0oI&utm_source=c... (disclosure: referral link. If that makes you feel gross, http://ynab.com)
The budget allows me to confidently spend thousands of dollars each month on student loans, without wondering if I have enough to cover living expenses. Plus, most budgeting tools now will auto-import your bank stuff, which is splendid.
> There's no way we could've paid off as quickly as we have without a budgeting tool.
Yes, there is. It's how people did it before YNAB and the Internet, and it's called "don't buy stuff you don't need".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door
* Spend less than you earn
* Avoid buying status objects or leading a status lifestyle
* Take financial risk if it is worth the reward
Yes, there is. It's how people did it before YNAB and the Internet, and it's called "don't buy stuff you don't need".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door
* Spend less than you earn
* Avoid buying status objects or leading a status lifestyle
* Take financial risk if it is worth the reward
$120K is way above average among student debt holders and you paid if off in 3 years.
Doesn't that imply you got a pretty good deal? Or would you have been able to get a similar level of income without the education?
It certainly isn't evidence of people having trouble paying off debt before their children go to college. (that evidence seems to exist, but your experience is pretty contrary to it...)
Mortgage interest deductions should just go away entirely.
Doesn't that imply you got a pretty good deal? Or would you have been able to get a similar level of income without the education?
It certainly isn't evidence of people having trouble paying off debt before their children go to college. (that evidence seems to exist, but your experience is pretty contrary to it...)
Mortgage interest deductions should just go away entirely.
Congrats! That takes some hard work and sacrifice but it sounds like it was worth it.
The mortgage interest deduction has been capped (at $750k iirc?) in the latest tax law so that should get less absurd.
The mortgage interest deduction has been capped (at $750k iirc?) in the latest tax law so that should get less absurd.
The previous cap on the mortgage interest deduction was $1M.
My wife and I have spent the first 1,000 days of our marriage paying off $120k in student loans.
It's a big plus the wifey is on the same page.
It's a big plus the wifey is on the same page.
That's a tenth of all USA mortgages.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/data/mortoutstand/current.htm
https://www.federalreserve.gov/data/mortoutstand/current.htm
And paying on a mortgage yields a house you can live in. Paying on a student loan yields an ongoing exploitation of older generations on younger generations.
one could say the same about housing
Retired people no longer produce anything but they still consume nearly as much. The exploitation of the young by the old is the bedrock of civilization, we only ever fight about best ways of doing it.
Children don't produce anything but consume nearly as much.
The exploitation of the old by the young is the bedrock of civilization. An "old person" invented the computer you post to HN on.
The exploitation of the old by the young is the bedrock of civilization. An "old person" invented the computer you post to HN on.
True but this is the first generation where the young people have to pay up front just for the opportunity to work to pay for the old.
Not comparable at all. The total value of owner-occupied real estate is 2.4 times the total owner-occupied mortgage debt. [1][2] It's not much of a problem having $300k in mortgage debt if my house is worth $500k. I can sell at any time and pocket $200k.
I can't do anything with a student loan. I can't sell my education. I can't discharge the loan in bankruptcy - something that could be done with a mortgage if I were somehow underwater. There's no way to escape it, and it mostly impacts the young who both have lower income available to deal with it and should putting away as much for retirement as possible.
[1]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HHMSDODNS [2]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HOOREVLMHMV
I can't do anything with a student loan. I can't sell my education. I can't discharge the loan in bankruptcy - something that could be done with a mortgage if I were somehow underwater. There's no way to escape it, and it mostly impacts the young who both have lower income available to deal with it and should putting away as much for retirement as possible.
[1]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HHMSDODNS [2]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HOOREVLMHMV
Why are credit cards and auto loans displayed as static, rounded numbers? When is the last time those were updated?
And nearly all of them are now being serviced by discover financial services (DFS). Which is why I just keep dumping investment money into them. Literally, its going to be either the government tells them to write it off, or a constant 7% growth for the next decade plus.
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Other than the fact that credit card and auto loan numbers are not updating, I like the concept. Not using tabular figures[1] here is really unforgivable, though. Maybe I'm missing a font?
[1]: https://www.fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/num...
[1]: https://www.fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/num...
I have literally never heard the term 'tabular figures' to refer to a fixed width font.
The font they're using is "Varela Round" which isn't fixed width to begin with; so whether it's missing or not is largely irrelevant.
edit: another comment indicates that tabular numbers can be a feature of even a non fixed width/monospace font. Dunno if Varela Round uses those.
The font they're using is "Varela Round" which isn't fixed width to begin with; so whether it's missing or not is largely irrelevant.
edit: another comment indicates that tabular numbers can be a feature of even a non fixed width/monospace font. Dunno if Varela Round uses those.
Somebody should make a physical one of these and put it in Union Square.
Nice domain, also shows up #2 on search results for _current student debt us_!
Calculated as a linear extrapolation with debt intercept of $883,000,000,000 on 01 June 2010 and a gradient of $2853.8/sec.
Calculated as a linear extrapolation with debt intercept of $883,000,000,000 on 01 June 2010 and a gradient of $2853.8/sec.
That isnt far off UK national debt?? http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/
Ouch?!
The median student loan debt is just $13,000, and seventy-five percent of borrowers owe less than $29,000. That's easily paid by most working professionals over a decade or so.
The student loan "crisis" is fake news. The largest loans are for high income professional degrees like law and medicine.
The student loan "crisis" is fake news. The largest loans are for high income professional degrees like law and medicine.
That's probably not measuring what you think it is.
It includes people who had 50k in debt and paid it down to 13k not just people who graduated with 50k. It even includes people who failed out an now owe 10k without getting a degree and people that went to Trucking schools.
PS: Parents take on 10k of debt and kid takes on 50k, that's now 2 households with debt etc.
It includes people who had 50k in debt and paid it down to 13k not just people who graduated with 50k. It even includes people who failed out an now owe 10k without getting a degree and people that went to Trucking schools.
PS: Parents take on 10k of debt and kid takes on 50k, that's now 2 households with debt etc.
I disagree. The average student loan debt from a public college is around $35k and that excludes private colleges, who are not required to report. Keep in mind that a great many students (who are not all wealthy) attend private colleges.
It certainly is not "fake news".
http://www.ibtimes.com/student-debt-crisis-2016-new-graduate...
It certainly is not "fake news".
http://www.ibtimes.com/student-debt-crisis-2016-new-graduate...
What fraction of borrowers end up in a decent professional career?
> That's easily paid by most working professionals over a decade or so.
So most people can start saving money around 30? That's a regression from past generations. When are they going buy a house, start a family, and eventually retire?
> That's easily paid by most working professionals over a decade or so.
So most people can start saving money around 30? That's a regression from past generations. When are they going buy a house, start a family, and eventually retire?
The maximum a dependent student can borrow is $31,000.
https://financialaid.umbc.edu/types-of-aid/federal-loans/sta...
Unseen in the $13,000 number are the Parental Plus loans that parents (and grandparents) are taking out that aren't in the student's name, but are just as unforgivable.
https://financialaid.umbc.edu/types-of-aid/federal-loans/sta...
Unseen in the $13,000 number are the Parental Plus loans that parents (and grandparents) are taking out that aren't in the student's name, but are just as unforgivable.
Law and medicine used to be highly paid professions, but this is becoming less true over time. Now it's hard for new lawyers to even get a job, much less a high-paying one at a big law firm.
I took the bus to campus, live at home, and worked while in school.
So part of me says "why should kids who wanted to live in a country-club atmosphere far away from home on borrowed money for 4 years get a bailout?"
However, I also realize the crippling seriousness of the problem.
I think the immediate solution is: The Governments Should Get Out of the Student Loan Business. Now. Allow private companies to give loans, but they're like any other unsecured loan, and you can cover them in a bankruptcy.
Tuition will drop like a rock! And maybe people will realize that not everyone has a "right" to go away to a country club for 4 years on borrowed (or someone else's) money.
Only if the Government stops backing student loans would I be happy with any sort of loan "forgiveness" program. And I think these people's creditworthiness should forever be tarnished.