One bad night’s sleep may increase levels of Alzheimer’s protein(newscientist.com)
newscientist.com
One bad night’s sleep may increase levels of Alzheimer’s protein
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2165911-one-bad-nights-sleep-may-increase-levels-of-alzheimers-protein/
47 comments
I find writing down with pencil in a notepad these running thoughts help. Then if you get more, add them. I keep a notepad by my bedside table.
Yeah, I've been using a combination of melatonin at bedtime and meditation. Plus really good sleep hygiene: red light after 8pm, no screens after 9pm, bed by 9:30 or 10pm every night (with few exceptions) get up with out an alarm every morning (pretty consistently before 8 am) and take a vigorous 1 or 2 mile walk with the dog, no more than 1 cup or tea or coffee in the morning.
That all helps control it most of the time. But it doesn't help on those really stressed out nights when I can't seem to break the thought loop long enough to get into a meditative state.
I've tried the writing trick, but for me, my thoughts run way faster than my pen can. I often find myself coming to after half an hour of staring at a single paragraph and realizing that I've just been looping the whole time with out writing anything.
I'm hoping I'll eventually get good enough at meditating that I'll be able to break those loops, but in the mean time I tend to just try to keep stress low enough that I don't get caught in them in the first place. Life just doesn't always play along.
That all helps control it most of the time. But it doesn't help on those really stressed out nights when I can't seem to break the thought loop long enough to get into a meditative state.
I've tried the writing trick, but for me, my thoughts run way faster than my pen can. I often find myself coming to after half an hour of staring at a single paragraph and realizing that I've just been looping the whole time with out writing anything.
I'm hoping I'll eventually get good enough at meditating that I'll be able to break those loops, but in the mean time I tend to just try to keep stress low enough that I don't get caught in them in the first place. Life just doesn't always play along.
I think decreased testosterone levels due to aging in combination with lack of sleep in life causes Alzheimer’s but I cannot prove it.
Sadly have several family friends who has Alzheimers.
https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/20101008/low-testoster...
Sadly have several family friends who has Alzheimers.
https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/20101008/low-testoster...
We have 2 kids. The youngest born 3.5 yrs ago, both of us > 40 at the time. My spouse kept track of # consecutive nights until we experienced at least 2 nights of uninterrupted sleep (defined as at least one parent with 8 hrs contiguous sleep 2 nights in a row).
489 days
Kid is 3y 9m now and still waiting for 5 consecutive days of uninterrupted sleep.
489 days
Kid is 3y 9m now and still waiting for 5 consecutive days of uninterrupted sleep.
This is clearly a sign on how important the glymphatic system is for the brain: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nedergaard-how-th...
> of 20 volunteers over the course of two nights
Really? This is news?
Really? This is news?
As a consequence, are people that have had children found to have higher incidences of Alzheimer's?
Anecdotal evidence in my grandmother's family indicates yes. 7 brothers and sisters, and all women who had children in the family developed dementia late in life.
I've never slept better than since I've had my kid. They force you to be much more disciplined with your time.
Could this be linked to the other studies that found Alcohol to be a big contibutor to Demantia?
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43141457
Since Alcohol disrupts sleep
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43141457
Since Alcohol disrupts sleep
Offhand, probably not.
First, because the amyloid hypothesis is specifically about Alzheimer's-type dementia, while alcohol appears to raise the risk of other dementia outcomes as well.
Second, alcohol appears to be a much larger risk factor than other serious sleep-deprivation or sleep-disruption situations from military service to insomnia, suggesting that it's acting by some other mechanism.
Obviously this is a hard answer since we don't actually know what causes dementia - at present, we can't even distinguish "sleep deprivation causes amyloid plaques which cause Alzheimer's" from "Alzheimer's causes sleep deprivation which causes amyloid plaques". But I think there's at minimum good evidence that sleep issues aren't the primary mechanism for alcohol to cause dementia.
First, because the amyloid hypothesis is specifically about Alzheimer's-type dementia, while alcohol appears to raise the risk of other dementia outcomes as well.
Second, alcohol appears to be a much larger risk factor than other serious sleep-deprivation or sleep-disruption situations from military service to insomnia, suggesting that it's acting by some other mechanism.
Obviously this is a hard answer since we don't actually know what causes dementia - at present, we can't even distinguish "sleep deprivation causes amyloid plaques which cause Alzheimer's" from "Alzheimer's causes sleep deprivation which causes amyloid plaques". But I think there's at minimum good evidence that sleep issues aren't the primary mechanism for alcohol to cause dementia.
According to this article, my body is 95% Alzheimer's protein due to living as a startup founder
So many gainz
> It’s possible this protein helps cause the condition, or instead that the protein forms plaques in the brain in response to the disease.
So it might as well be that this protein is doing something good ...
So it might as well be that this protein is doing something good ...
Correlation != causation. The headline totally neglects this to be more sensationalist.
They are testing causation. The researches deprived subjects of sleep on predetermined nights and observed the results to be a buildup of this protein.
Correlation between the proteins and Alzheimers. The headline doesn't outright state that it's causal, but leaves plenty of room for people to jump to that natural assumption.
As someone who's been a chronic primary insomniac my whole life, I would not be surprised if I die young despite being very physically fit and healthy. My constant sleep deprivation has already taken a significant toll on my capacity to concentrate and it was the bane of my life during high school/university. It'd be interesting to find out what the actual physical state of my brain is after operating for several decades on 2-4 hours of sleep every night.
I find the topic of insomnia fascinating because it's so alien to me. In the Stephen King's book "Insomnia", the main character explains that you being sleepy and tired can actually be uncorrelated. It's like saying that you can't drink water when you are thirsty.
It's so weird.
It's so weird.
That's exactly it. I'm in a perpetual state of being "tired", but rarely ever (outside of specific timing windows) in a state of being sleepy. This is partly because I also have a correlated condition called "Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder" which means my natural circadian rhythm is shifted (and unfortunately not in alignment with social norms for when I should be alert and asleep).
Sleepiness is the feeling you experience right before you actually fall asleep; the overwhelming relaxation that drags you into the unconscious. Tiredness is being too exhausted to feel or express emotion. You're awake, but mentally absent, and incapable of completing any productive task. It's one of the most frustrating feelings in the world to be unable to do something as simple as sleep. I'm extremely jealous of the people, like my roommate in college, who can seemingly will themselves into sleep within 5 minutes of laying their head down.
My insomnia was especially difficult to deal with while I was in school because it made me prone to stupid mistakes on exams. I would often misread or glaze over important details, especially on any trick or multiple choice questions, and in more than one class those little mistakes cost me grade points. It also often didn't matter how much I would study as my memory retention was horrible. Anyone who's read a book whilst tired can attest how difficult it is to not only process the words on the page, but to remember them for later.
Sleepiness is the feeling you experience right before you actually fall asleep; the overwhelming relaxation that drags you into the unconscious. Tiredness is being too exhausted to feel or express emotion. You're awake, but mentally absent, and incapable of completing any productive task. It's one of the most frustrating feelings in the world to be unable to do something as simple as sleep. I'm extremely jealous of the people, like my roommate in college, who can seemingly will themselves into sleep within 5 minutes of laying their head down.
My insomnia was especially difficult to deal with while I was in school because it made me prone to stupid mistakes on exams. I would often misread or glaze over important details, especially on any trick or multiple choice questions, and in more than one class those little mistakes cost me grade points. It also often didn't matter how much I would study as my memory retention was horrible. Anyone who's read a book whilst tired can attest how difficult it is to not only process the words on the page, but to remember them for later.
I really want to experiment polyphasic sleep, but people that tried it always say the first 2 weeks are hell.
Sounds like your entire life looks like those 2 weeks.
What kind of task can you perform that is not immediately 10 times harder under those conditions ?
P.S: I'm like your friend, I sleep like a baby. Actually less than 7 hours of sleeps makes me feel like crap.
Sounds like your entire life looks like those 2 weeks.
What kind of task can you perform that is not immediately 10 times harder under those conditions ?
P.S: I'm like your friend, I sleep like a baby. Actually less than 7 hours of sleeps makes me feel like crap.
I don't really know if I can answer that question because I have no point of reference to what's "normal." It wasn't until high school that I found out it wasn't normal to take 3-4 hours to fall asleep every night. This is how I've been my entire life.
Athletically I was able to compete with my track and soccer teammates without issue, but lifting weights is an area I lack in because sleep is so important to the development of raw strength. It isn't something I dwell on---I've lived for it so long I've gotten over it--but I do sometimes wonder in a curious way how much more I could have achieved without these sleeping issues. I used to want to be a doctor, but with this condition achieving the grades necessary to get into medical school was impossible (on a consistent basis, anyway).
Athletically I was able to compete with my track and soccer teammates without issue, but lifting weights is an area I lack in because sleep is so important to the development of raw strength. It isn't something I dwell on---I've lived for it so long I've gotten over it--but I do sometimes wonder in a curious way how much more I could have achieved without these sleeping issues. I used to want to be a doctor, but with this condition achieving the grades necessary to get into medical school was impossible (on a consistent basis, anyway).
"It wasn't until high school that I found out it wasn't normal to take 3-4 hours to fall asleep every night. This is how I've been my entire life."
Do you drink caffeine or take any other stimulants?
They could definitely have an adverse effect on your sleep.
Do you drink caffeine or take any other stimulants?
They could definitely have an adverse effect on your sleep.
Absolutely zero caffeine or stimulants. Caffeine makes me feel sick so I've never gotten into the habit of drinking it and I've found it doesn't really help my "alertness" when I'm tired anyway.
I tried and it's not worth it. You get much more free time, but all your schedule revolves around always having a place to take a nap on time. Miss your schedule and you fall back to normal sleep pretty quick.
Besides that, my impression was that injuries heal slower with polyphasic sleep.
Besides that, my impression was that injuries heal slower with polyphasic sleep.
Try exercising to the point of exhaustion and see how it affects your sleep.
I appreciate the sentiment, but trust me: if there's a "solution" out there, I've tried it (Yes, I have in fact heard of melatonin! No, it doesn't help, thank you.)
My chronic insomnia is "primary" meaning it persists in the absence of other factors. I'm not depressed. I get enough sun exposure. I take my supplements. I have a comfy mattress. I practice good sleep hygiene. I use blue light filters and don't use my phone/computer before bed. I exercise every day. I eat well and not before bed. I don't have breathing issues. Nothing helps. It's just the hand I was dealt genetically.
Furthermore, exercising to the point of exhaustion is reckless and I've injured myself over the years doing exactly that because I don't get enough sleep for my body to recover properly.
I can run and stay aerobically fit and I played high level soccer for many years when I was younger without too much issue, but activities like weightlifting are a struggle for me. Benchlifting when you're sleep deprived is pointless so I have to fill in on my off days.
My chronic insomnia is "primary" meaning it persists in the absence of other factors. I'm not depressed. I get enough sun exposure. I take my supplements. I have a comfy mattress. I practice good sleep hygiene. I use blue light filters and don't use my phone/computer before bed. I exercise every day. I eat well and not before bed. I don't have breathing issues. Nothing helps. It's just the hand I was dealt genetically.
Furthermore, exercising to the point of exhaustion is reckless and I've injured myself over the years doing exactly that because I don't get enough sleep for my body to recover properly.
I can run and stay aerobically fit and I played high level soccer for many years when I was younger without too much issue, but activities like weightlifting are a struggle for me. Benchlifting when you're sleep deprived is pointless so I have to fill in on my off days.
Meditation?
I admit I might sound a bit bitter in these comments, but mentally I think I'm healthier and stronger than I've ever been. I used to struggle with depression and anxiety when I was younger so I learned mental strategies to pull myself out of unproductive states of mind. I don't feel anxious or frustrated when I can't sleep. I'm too used to it by now to let it bother me anymore.
Ah I wasn't referring to improving your mental health with meditation.
Meditation is more for calming the subconcious, dropping all the background threads that are running.
Maybe that's a "hack" that can fix your problem. Even if it doesn't, meditating a few hours at night gives your body more rest than rolling around and not getting rest nor sleep.
Maybe 4h of meditation at night is like 3h of real sleep for you, who knows.
Furthermore, you get a lot of insights and a better connection to your body.
I can recommend the app headspace.
Meditation is more for calming the subconcious, dropping all the background threads that are running.
Maybe that's a "hack" that can fix your problem. Even if it doesn't, meditating a few hours at night gives your body more rest than rolling around and not getting rest nor sleep.
Maybe 4h of meditation at night is like 3h of real sleep for you, who knows.
Furthermore, you get a lot of insights and a better connection to your body.
I can recommend the app headspace.
What do you think about sleeping pills?
They're more of a bandage than a solution.
Any "true" sleeping pill has to be tapered, so at best you can only take them for a few months at a time before they become ineffective due to tolerance. In my experience, they're also inconsistent and I would still experience a sleepness night about once a week. These are in addition to the usual side effects (oversleeping, daytime grogginess, memory issues, mood issues, etc.) that make long-term use impractical.
Any "true" sleeping pill has to be tapered, so at best you can only take them for a few months at a time before they become ineffective due to tolerance. In my experience, they're also inconsistent and I would still experience a sleepness night about once a week. These are in addition to the usual side effects (oversleeping, daytime grogginess, memory issues, mood issues, etc.) that make long-term use impractical.
In addition to all that I don't think there are non-addictive pills that increases non-REM sleep. That's the most rest full phase of sleep. I would be so happy to be wrong.
Sleeping pills gave me the feeling of being notionally asleep but actually conscious and awake underneath. Lot of REM sleep but hardly any of the non REM variety. That's why I gave them up very quickly. They only made a bad situation worse for me.
Sleeping pills gave me the feeling of being notionally asleep but actually conscious and awake underneath. Lot of REM sleep but hardly any of the non REM variety. That's why I gave them up very quickly. They only made a bad situation worse for me.
You're right. They are supposed to get you used to a sleep schedule, not to force you to sleep every night. They can't be used forever. As someone else already suggested, meditation might be worth trying. Some people find it harder to calm their thoughts, but those are usually the most benefited.
Have you tried "Algorithmic Sleep Solution" [0]? This type of intentional sleep restriction worked for me.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15997016
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15997016
As of this writing there are at least 3 other replies peppering you with suggestions you've almost certainly already known about & tried without success.
I'm not going to suggest anything. I feel bad for you, and just wanted to say so. I'm fairly convinced I would be either homeless or dead if I couldn't get enough sleep, and the fact that you at least aren't the latter is inspiring to me.
Your life seems impossibly difficult to me, and so I wish you all the best success in regularly finding a tranquil oasis to bide your time in along your way.
I'm not going to suggest anything. I feel bad for you, and just wanted to say so. I'm fairly convinced I would be either homeless or dead if I couldn't get enough sleep, and the fact that you at least aren't the latter is inspiring to me.
Your life seems impossibly difficult to me, and so I wish you all the best success in regularly finding a tranquil oasis to bide your time in along your way.
Thank you.
Yeah, I just want to echo this. As a periodic insomniac, I cannot imagine having your struggles with it. My own are bad enough. I've done the whole "month with out sleeping" thing. It was hell. Being in that state where nothing feels like it helps is terrifying and frustrating. I cannot imagine having that my whole life and never being able to break out of it. I feel very, very lucky that meditation, sleep hygiene, and melatonin now help me keep mine reasonably in check.
I'm sorry you got dealt that hand, it sounds like you're dealing with it far better than the vast majority of people would - including me.
I'm sorry you got dealt that hand, it sounds like you're dealing with it far better than the vast majority of people would - including me.
The obvious question which isn't addressed in the article - do beta-amyloid levels return to normal after some short span of good sleep?
Alzheimer's is associated with consistently elevated beta-amyloid levels, while this study was about a short-term increase. It appears on a skim of the study that the rate wasn't checked over later days, but is expected (from rodent models) to go back down reasonably quickly. That's not a criticism of the study - it's an interesting result linking the disrupted sleep patterns seen in pre-Alzheimers to the protein levels seen in Alzheimer's, and it's also the first study to directly study this link in humans.
It just seems like an important caveat because the New Scientist article is a bit fuzzy on whether individual bad sleep events are being seen as a model (yes) or a risk factor (not so far) for Alzheimer's.
Alzheimer's is associated with consistently elevated beta-amyloid levels, while this study was about a short-term increase. It appears on a skim of the study that the rate wasn't checked over later days, but is expected (from rodent models) to go back down reasonably quickly. That's not a criticism of the study - it's an interesting result linking the disrupted sleep patterns seen in pre-Alzheimers to the protein levels seen in Alzheimer's, and it's also the first study to directly study this link in humans.
It just seems like an important caveat because the New Scientist article is a bit fuzzy on whether individual bad sleep events are being seen as a model (yes) or a risk factor (not so far) for Alzheimer's.
I'll got to bed with my brain caught in some sort of stress loop that I can't break. Then I have the thought "Oh shit, tonight's gonna be an insomnia night, isn't it?" Just having that thought introduces a fuck ton of cortisol into my system, creating a self fulfilling prophecy.
...all of these stories about the dangers of those missed nights of sleep really don't help matters.