How IBM quietly pushed out 20,000 aging workers(vox.com)
vox.com
How IBM quietly pushed out 20,000 aging workers
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/20/17261798/ibm-layoffs-retirements-older-workers-age-discrimination-claims
20 comments
Ageism is still the number 1 discrimination in the IT/software industry by a mile. But since it is not as 'sexy', 'Politically Correct' or appealing to the right 'Consumer Demographic', it gets mostly the silent treatment.
> Ageism is still the number 1 discrimination in the IT/software industry by a mile.
And it will only get worse I'm afraid. Not only is there a bias towards youth in the industry, there is also a growing move in the industry to lower operating costs. Unfortunately, the biggest cost for tech companies are their employees ( especially the older, more experienced employees with high salaries ). Add in the fact that most older tech employees are almost exclusively white and asian males, the drive towards diversity will mean the older white and male employees will have to bear the brunt of the diversity campaign. I think the next recession is going to be especially brutal for tech employees in general and older tech workers in particular.
And it will only get worse I'm afraid. Not only is there a bias towards youth in the industry, there is also a growing move in the industry to lower operating costs. Unfortunately, the biggest cost for tech companies are their employees ( especially the older, more experienced employees with high salaries ). Add in the fact that most older tech employees are almost exclusively white and asian males, the drive towards diversity will mean the older white and male employees will have to bear the brunt of the diversity campaign. I think the next recession is going to be especially brutal for tech employees in general and older tech workers in particular.
The amount ( two right now) is also telling a story about this topic...
The only place in see (more at least) old people is IT consulting. Might be biased or just perception though.
The only place in see (more at least) old people is IT consulting. Might be biased or just perception though.
Some firms have a school bus model too there though.
I’ve found the way around age discrimination is to actively seek out older bosses.
I’ve found the way around age discrimination is to actively seek out older bosses.
As a late-40's engineer/programmer/admin, I've been fortunate to stay technical for my 25 years or so, but I've seen the other side of this argument. We had a guy who was in his later 50's, as a top-level "tech" pay grade, who wrote some Perl twenty-something years ago. He was given 3 simple tasks in Visual Basic, and couldn't complete a single one. The company did an RIF, and he just barely made the cut to get an early retirement. He took it, knowing he'd be let go if he didn't.
So, yeah, as a middle-aged guy, these stories scare my pants off. However, I think this other guy's story is pretty common. I suspect that there are a lot of people who, thanks to some early success at being technical in a large company, rise through the pay scale, and then never update their skill set. These people NEED to go. They're a drag on an already-cripplingly-overencumbered organization.
You have to keep learning. Forever. After over a decade happily coding with Rails, I'm now learning Java for web applications. Yikes. I can't say I'm enjoying the experience, but I AM learning a lot.
Just throwing out a counterpoint. I'm not sure that taking the money saved, and hiring a small army of Indian college grads is the answer, but that's a whole different discussion.
So, yeah, as a middle-aged guy, these stories scare my pants off. However, I think this other guy's story is pretty common. I suspect that there are a lot of people who, thanks to some early success at being technical in a large company, rise through the pay scale, and then never update their skill set. These people NEED to go. They're a drag on an already-cripplingly-overencumbered organization.
You have to keep learning. Forever. After over a decade happily coding with Rails, I'm now learning Java for web applications. Yikes. I can't say I'm enjoying the experience, but I AM learning a lot.
Just throwing out a counterpoint. I'm not sure that taking the money saved, and hiring a small army of Indian college grads is the answer, but that's a whole different discussion.
I find this funny because I've used Java most of my career and am just tired of having to write so much code for even the simplest stuff. I just wish I could use Perl always.
The latest task was a simple web service for a poc. Java was a pom file, various classes, web.xml, etc. All that could be written as a Perl dancer app and a yml database config file.
The latest task was a simple web service for a poc. Java was a pom file, various classes, web.xml, etc. All that could be written as a Perl dancer app and a yml database config file.
> You have to keep learning.
This is where people either fail or succeed. Want to spend the weekends with your kids riding horses and not working on your skills? That's fine, but it will affect your ability to be hired. It's not "we're not hiring you because you're old" it's "we're not hiring you because you don't keep your skills modern."
Find a happy median. I'm 34 and started in this field when I was 12. I've seen it for most of my life. I have zero fears of being 40 and not getting work unless I get detached from it and start focusing on other things.
I was a sysadmin for a long time, I was a network engineer for a long time. Now I work on kubernetes. I've had to change my "field" multiple times to stay current and employable.
And please don't send me a resume with 20 years of random-old-tech-stuff on it unless it relates to what we're doing.
This is where people either fail or succeed. Want to spend the weekends with your kids riding horses and not working on your skills? That's fine, but it will affect your ability to be hired. It's not "we're not hiring you because you're old" it's "we're not hiring you because you don't keep your skills modern."
Find a happy median. I'm 34 and started in this field when I was 12. I've seen it for most of my life. I have zero fears of being 40 and not getting work unless I get detached from it and start focusing on other things.
I was a sysadmin for a long time, I was a network engineer for a long time. Now I work on kubernetes. I've had to change my "field" multiple times to stay current and employable.
And please don't send me a resume with 20 years of random-old-tech-stuff on it unless it relates to what we're doing.
And I thought IBM was one of the few places that still had aging workers. Why would a young worker ever join them?
The Voce article doesn’t add anything to the original. https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-a...
The Voce article doesn’t add anything to the original. https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-a...
> And I thought IBM was one of the few places that still had aging workers. Why would a young worker ever join them?
Up until now, job safety. Now, I really don't know.
Up until now, job safety. Now, I really don't know.
They haven’t had job security in decades. It’s just now more deliberate on the oldsters.
They are a mature business. They are at a phase of giving money back to shareholders, not inventing the next thing.
They are a mature business. They are at a phase of giving money back to shareholders, not inventing the next thing.
Older folks cost more. This is all about money.
> not inventing the next thing
Not keeping up much with the world of computer science are we? Innovation is not limited to phones, private data mining and self driving cars. I would suggest you read about Q, or the world’s smallest computer, or the brain chip, or silicon photonics, or the 5nm transistor, etc.
Not keeping up much with the world of computer science are we? Innovation is not limited to phones, private data mining and self driving cars. I would suggest you read about Q, or the world’s smallest computer, or the brain chip, or silicon photonics, or the 5nm transistor, etc.
Safety in numbers. (Well, as long as you fit their demographic.)
If you're truly skilled, look elsewhere.
If you're truly skilled, look elsewhere.
The problem with tech unlike say cardiology or law is that things change so quickly that experience doesn't easily accrue as an asset. Further, because tech is dealing with things rather than people a professional network also isn't easy to build.
Compounding these problems is that the internet has allowed organizations to relatively easily outsource a lot of tech work to low wage countries. The combined result is that tech workers have little strength in the value chain particularly as they get older.
One bright area though is tech for smaller companies typically web technology. Small companies can't easily manage foreign workers and many are not large enough to hire an IT department but they still need a web site and often and specialized database backing it up. These types of businesses often appreciate older workers as consultants and pay them well enough, almost like lawyers or accountants.
Compounding these problems is that the internet has allowed organizations to relatively easily outsource a lot of tech work to low wage countries. The combined result is that tech workers have little strength in the value chain particularly as they get older.
One bright area though is tech for smaller companies typically web technology. Small companies can't easily manage foreign workers and many are not large enough to hire an IT department but they still need a web site and often and specialized database backing it up. These types of businesses often appreciate older workers as consultants and pay them well enough, almost like lawyers or accountants.
I hope IBM gets roasted by the Feds for this.
Could this not be more with Pensions than just ageism? I'm going to make the assumption that perhaps older IBM workers had generous pension packages. Human living longer, more costly, etc.
So there are no studies that show the elder lose their mental abilities?
You'll be there one day, and may you receive the same level of empathy.
While empathy is nice, companies are not retirement homes. Empathy does not pay bills.
If employees don't add enough value to justify their cost then eventually the company fails, costing everyone, not just the old or unproductive.
If employees don't add enough value to justify their cost then eventually the company fails, costing everyone, not just the old or unproductive.