How technology has redefined the job of the repo man(mercurynews.com)
mercurynews.com
How technology has redefined the job of the repo man
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/19/how-technology-has-redefined-the-job-of-the-repo-man/
87 comments
> Ive had repo agents posing as customers looking to "get their car," which is pretty funny, but ive also seen agents harassing the front office staff with demands for a vehicle being worked on. Sometimes a driver will park their car to suddenly find theyve been "hitched up" to a seedy looking tow apparatus on the back of an often ironically leased light duty truck. Repo agents in this case show up as "innocent" middle men while a driver pleads and begs over the phone with a lender to not tow their car for any number of humiliating excuses.
So, are these not actual repo men, but just people trying to steal a car?
So, are these not actual repo men, but just people trying to steal a car?
> automotive dealerships typically install an ECU interlock
Is there somewhere where I can learn more about this? My quick Google search didn't lead to much, mostly people talking about ignition interlock devices for DUIs...
Is there somewhere where I can learn more about this? My quick Google search didn't lead to much, mostly people talking about ignition interlock devices for DUIs...
> which turns a regular shift in the garage into a massive headache trying to track down the upset BMW or Mercedes that wont stop making racket in the lot.
Wow, that is wild.
Wow, that is wild.
> The company’s goal is to capture every plate in Ohio and use that information to reveal patterns.
That's horrifying.
It reminds me of how social security numbers evolved from something narrow in purpose to something that can be used to track an individual's every detail. Now license plates are evolving into a tool that is used to build databases of every individual's movement.
That's horrifying.
It reminds me of how social security numbers evolved from something narrow in purpose to something that can be used to track an individual's every detail. Now license plates are evolving into a tool that is used to build databases of every individual's movement.
That's how the mafia used to work. Watch people during their fun times. Reveal patterns, then extort them.
Used to, eh?
At least 10 years ago, a friend forgot where he parked his car in the Airport parking lot after a long trip. When he went to the booth embarrassed to tell them this, they said it was no big deal and did a quick tap-tap-tap on the keyboard using his license plate number to determine its exact location. They apparently scanned all the license plates in all their lots twice a day.
In 2001 my car was towed from LAX parking lot because they checked the plate (they told me they scan all plates daily) and it came back as registered to a different make.
Turns out the dealer made a single-letter mistake in VIN when registering the car with DMV, and there is no check digit to reject invalid VINs.
Turns out the dealer made a single-letter mistake in VIN when registering the car with DMV, and there is no check digit to reject invalid VINs.
There is a check digit. Most likely someone at the dealer copy/pasted the wrong VIN into the form.
Even when you've got a check digit, if you make 100 typos a year only 90 of them will get caught.
>there is no check digit to reject invalid VINs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number#... ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number#... ?
In whose interest is it to scan and tow such cars?
> They apparently scanned all the license plates in all their lots twice a day.
I'd bet this is to prevent people from claiming they lost their ticket after parking in the garage for a month in order to pay the daily max rate instead of a month's worth of fees.
I'd bet this is to prevent people from claiming they lost their ticket after parking in the garage for a month in order to pay the daily max rate instead of a month's worth of fees.
Yes I have lost my ticket before, and the attendant was able to look up how long my car was parked by the license plate and charge me appropriately
And sometimes they make a mobile app so you can find your car too! With a JSON API so you can find the number plate of every other car in the lot! https://www.troyhunt.com/find-my-car-find-your-car-find/
I honestly don’t get why anyone goes in to debt to buy a car in this day and age. You can buy a car (or truck) for $3000 that will last several years without requiring any huge mechanic bills or exotic maintenance - heck, I’ve done it. I would much rather take the bus/bike/walk and save up $500/mo for 6 months to be a free man than buy or lease a car for $500/mo and be a space to my creditors.
Besides, hoopties can be charming :-)
Besides, hoopties can be charming :-)
You have an interesting concept of being a "free man". Debt is a tool, not a form of enslavement.
For example, many people who could pay cash for a car take a loan instead, because they know they will have more money at the end of the loan term if they invest their cash, or because taking the loan will cost them less money than cashing out some investments and paying capital gains taxes.
You can get car loans these days with less than 1% APR. At that rate, it almost never makes sense to pay cash, at any price -- the interest rate on the loan is less than the rate of inflation!
I've bought cars for $2k or less several times, and I kept each one for several years. If I hadn't known how to work on them myself, they would have ended up costing a lot more than what I paid initially. I bought my current car new -- it is a lot safer than the cars I used to drive, it gets excellent gas mileage, it has a great warranty, and it will last me a long time.
When I retire several decades from now, I certainly won't regret having purchased a new car back in the 2010s -- the price I paid will be a drop in the bucket compared to the amount I will have earned and saved by then. All I would get if I buy a $3k car is unnecessary suffering and inconvenience, and significantly higher risk of death in an accident, that wouldn't amount to much savings in hindsight.
For example, many people who could pay cash for a car take a loan instead, because they know they will have more money at the end of the loan term if they invest their cash, or because taking the loan will cost them less money than cashing out some investments and paying capital gains taxes.
You can get car loans these days with less than 1% APR. At that rate, it almost never makes sense to pay cash, at any price -- the interest rate on the loan is less than the rate of inflation!
I've bought cars for $2k or less several times, and I kept each one for several years. If I hadn't known how to work on them myself, they would have ended up costing a lot more than what I paid initially. I bought my current car new -- it is a lot safer than the cars I used to drive, it gets excellent gas mileage, it has a great warranty, and it will last me a long time.
When I retire several decades from now, I certainly won't regret having purchased a new car back in the 2010s -- the price I paid will be a drop in the bucket compared to the amount I will have earned and saved by then. All I would get if I buy a $3k car is unnecessary suffering and inconvenience, and significantly higher risk of death in an accident, that wouldn't amount to much savings in hindsight.
>All I would get if I buy a $3k car is unnecessary suffering and inconvenience, and significantly higher risk of death in an accident, that wouldn't amount to much savings in hindsight.
Perhaps so, but at some point one does see diminishing returns on getting a newer vehicle.
$3K these days won't get a hassle-free car, but $6K perhaps would.
How does one get safety statistics? I thought that any car made, say, in 2010 wouldn't come with a significantly higher risk of death compared to the same model made today.
Perhaps so, but at some point one does see diminishing returns on getting a newer vehicle.
$3K these days won't get a hassle-free car, but $6K perhaps would.
How does one get safety statistics? I thought that any car made, say, in 2010 wouldn't come with a significantly higher risk of death compared to the same model made today.
Because not only do a lot of people live where they must have a care for transportation (Midwest, for example) simply to get to work and buy food, but many of these folks don't have much money. If you make $20k/year (more than minimum wage), that $3000 car is 15% of your income income. It is a major expense.
All this isn't so bad if you've been lucky enough to live at a low wage and not run into any major issues, but this is pretty rare.
All this isn't so bad if you've been lucky enough to live at a low wage and not run into any major issues, but this is pretty rare.
I will be in need of a car soon. I don't drive much but just need something that works and is safe. Do you have any tips on how you find your $3000 cars? Are you a car guy?
I am not GP, but I search for cars for sale by owner on Craigslist using the following search string:
versa|fit|yaris|aveo|rio5|sonic|focus|elantra|soul|cobalt|leaf|mazda3|matrix
This will find you a small fuel efficient hatchback or sedan. Get familiar with kelly blue book and reply to sellers that have a reasonable asking price, then haggle. The last car I bought was a 2008 Rio with 100k miles for exactly $3000.
versa|fit|yaris|aveo|rio5|sonic|focus|elantra|soul|cobalt|leaf|mazda3|matrix
This will find you a small fuel efficient hatchback or sedan. Get familiar with kelly blue book and reply to sellers that have a reasonable asking price, then haggle. The last car I bought was a 2008 Rio with 100k miles for exactly $3000.
My general approach is to look at craigslist (one example query: https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cta?query=used+car&sor...) to get a sense of the market. Spend a little while (maybe a week) checking in on a search like that to get a sense of the market.
Once you feel like you've got a sense of what "normal" prices are for cars in your price range, get a consumer reports subscription†. Use CR to evaluate the make, model, and year of any car that you're considering for safety and reliability. Reliability is a pretty important indicator for cars in this price range, because you'll tend to be looking at things with higher milage.
Then, watch craigslist for vehicles that seem like a good deal. With the information you have, you should also be in a good position to call local used car dealerships and tell them what you're looking for. You should have enough information to tell when they're offering you a reasonable deal.
If you have the time and can afford to try and be a little picky. Obviously, if you need a car you need a car, but if you can afford to take your time it'll usually be worth it. Prefer cars that seem like they've been well-maintained over their life and prefer cars that come from people who have kept documentation of maintenance performed on the car.
Finally, no matter where you're considering buying from—dealer or individual—take the car to a mechanic for a pre-sale inspection. This is a common service most mechanics offer. Make sure you're the one selecting the mechanic and the one paying the mechanic. That ensures that you should get a fairly objective assessment of the car itself. This step isn't as important if you're familiar with cars, but if you're not a car guy (as I'm not), it's totally worth the price to find out if there are any immediate or upcoming service issues that will be necessary for the car.
†I _think_ you can get a monthly subscription and cancel after one-month, but you should double-check that. If you can get it for a single month, the $7.95 is totally worth it. If you have to get it for a full-year at a time, evaluate the cost/benefit based on your budget.
Once you feel like you've got a sense of what "normal" prices are for cars in your price range, get a consumer reports subscription†. Use CR to evaluate the make, model, and year of any car that you're considering for safety and reliability. Reliability is a pretty important indicator for cars in this price range, because you'll tend to be looking at things with higher milage.
Then, watch craigslist for vehicles that seem like a good deal. With the information you have, you should also be in a good position to call local used car dealerships and tell them what you're looking for. You should have enough information to tell when they're offering you a reasonable deal.
If you have the time and can afford to try and be a little picky. Obviously, if you need a car you need a car, but if you can afford to take your time it'll usually be worth it. Prefer cars that seem like they've been well-maintained over their life and prefer cars that come from people who have kept documentation of maintenance performed on the car.
Finally, no matter where you're considering buying from—dealer or individual—take the car to a mechanic for a pre-sale inspection. This is a common service most mechanics offer. Make sure you're the one selecting the mechanic and the one paying the mechanic. That ensures that you should get a fairly objective assessment of the car itself. This step isn't as important if you're familiar with cars, but if you're not a car guy (as I'm not), it's totally worth the price to find out if there are any immediate or upcoming service issues that will be necessary for the car.
†I _think_ you can get a monthly subscription and cancel after one-month, but you should double-check that. If you can get it for a single month, the $7.95 is totally worth it. If you have to get it for a full-year at a time, evaluate the cost/benefit based on your budget.
> My general approach is to look at craigslist (one example query: https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cta?query=used+car&sor...) to get a sense of the market.
CL now allows you to search by 'Owner' listings and eliminate dealers completely. Do that. If you're looking for a $3000 car, you don't want to touch the dealer realm, it'll be filled with straight trash.
> Once you feel like you've got a sense of what "normal" prices are for cars in your price range, get a consumer reports subscription†.
Nah. If you're targeting a $3,000 vehicle you can very quickly figure out what fits your requirements & budget. Volvo 240s, anything late 80s - early 90s Toyota, early-mid 90s Ford Rangers, 1st & 2nd generation Geo Metros, etc. These are just the cars that I've personally owned and as a result dug into and researched. There are TONS of makes & models out there that are fantastic vehicles that will perform extremely well for years to come inside your $3,000 budget.
> Prefer cars that seem like they've been well-maintained over their life and prefer cars that come from people who have kept documentation of maintenance performed on the car.
Find older people who are getting rid of their "daily" driver for good. I've purchased at least 6 of these that looked like they traveled through time and rolled off the showroom floor that day. They're generally one owner (since they pulled them off the lot ~12 years ago and aren't going to own anything else), dealer maintained, gently driven, with minimal miles; and they just want it gone at a fair price.
Also, look at the photos. Is their coffee cup from that morning in the holder? Is the interior a mess? Looks like they needed new wipers 6+ months ago and definitely need to hose the thing down at a minimum? That's a bad owner. They don't care for their vehicle. That means they didn't do scheduled maintenance on it. If you list a car for sale without taking the hour to clear your shit out of it, hit it with a vacuum, and take it through an automatic car wash – they're not the seller you're looking for.
> Finally, no matter where you're considering buying from—dealer or individual—take the car to a mechanic for a pre-sale inspection. This is a common service most mechanics offer.
Also hit the community forums for the vehicle you're considering. They exist for every make & model out there, I assure you. They almost always have a "purchase checklist" type document published. Give that to the shop that's doing your inspection and make sure they hit those bullet points as well. Every make of vehicle will have its quirks that you want reviewed.
CL now allows you to search by 'Owner' listings and eliminate dealers completely. Do that. If you're looking for a $3000 car, you don't want to touch the dealer realm, it'll be filled with straight trash.
> Once you feel like you've got a sense of what "normal" prices are for cars in your price range, get a consumer reports subscription†.
Nah. If you're targeting a $3,000 vehicle you can very quickly figure out what fits your requirements & budget. Volvo 240s, anything late 80s - early 90s Toyota, early-mid 90s Ford Rangers, 1st & 2nd generation Geo Metros, etc. These are just the cars that I've personally owned and as a result dug into and researched. There are TONS of makes & models out there that are fantastic vehicles that will perform extremely well for years to come inside your $3,000 budget.
> Prefer cars that seem like they've been well-maintained over their life and prefer cars that come from people who have kept documentation of maintenance performed on the car.
Find older people who are getting rid of their "daily" driver for good. I've purchased at least 6 of these that looked like they traveled through time and rolled off the showroom floor that day. They're generally one owner (since they pulled them off the lot ~12 years ago and aren't going to own anything else), dealer maintained, gently driven, with minimal miles; and they just want it gone at a fair price.
Also, look at the photos. Is their coffee cup from that morning in the holder? Is the interior a mess? Looks like they needed new wipers 6+ months ago and definitely need to hose the thing down at a minimum? That's a bad owner. They don't care for their vehicle. That means they didn't do scheduled maintenance on it. If you list a car for sale without taking the hour to clear your shit out of it, hit it with a vacuum, and take it through an automatic car wash – they're not the seller you're looking for.
> Finally, no matter where you're considering buying from—dealer or individual—take the car to a mechanic for a pre-sale inspection. This is a common service most mechanics offer.
Also hit the community forums for the vehicle you're considering. They exist for every make & model out there, I assure you. They almost always have a "purchase checklist" type document published. Give that to the shop that's doing your inspection and make sure they hit those bullet points as well. Every make of vehicle will have its quirks that you want reviewed.
There's also http://www.carsurvey.org/
It does depend where you live and how much effort you put into it.
- Location
Where I come from (without getting specific, south of Seattle) a 10-year-old Corolla might run you $2,400. Where some of my family lives in Idaho, that same car would be well south of $1,000. Just depends on the cost of living in your area.
- Effort
Purchasing from a dealership will likely be safer (with respect to reliability and safety), but generally more expensive than shopping around on Craigslist. That being said, Craigslist isn't all that bad if you're somewhat mechanically inclined. Now, that doesn't mean you need to be able to rebuild an engine, just that you know what to look for in a car. Here's a somewhat decent checklist[0].
Like others said, when in doubt get a Toyota or Honda.
[0]: http://www.chrisfixed.com/HowtoInspectaUsedCarChecklistChris... (PDF!)
- Location
Where I come from (without getting specific, south of Seattle) a 10-year-old Corolla might run you $2,400. Where some of my family lives in Idaho, that same car would be well south of $1,000. Just depends on the cost of living in your area.
- Effort
Purchasing from a dealership will likely be safer (with respect to reliability and safety), but generally more expensive than shopping around on Craigslist. That being said, Craigslist isn't all that bad if you're somewhat mechanically inclined. Now, that doesn't mean you need to be able to rebuild an engine, just that you know what to look for in a car. Here's a somewhat decent checklist[0].
Like others said, when in doubt get a Toyota or Honda.
[0]: http://www.chrisfixed.com/HowtoInspectaUsedCarChecklistChris... (PDF!)
Just buy a Toyota Camry or Corolla, typically can't go wrong with those things so long as someone remembered to occasionally check the oil.
Just don't get the one with Unintended Acceleration.
In some cases, it’s hard to buy the $3000 car you need to make it to your job with no savings. Debt solves the chicken and egg problem when it works well.
When it doesn’t work is people getting fancy BMW’s they convinced themselves they would be able to afford somehow, but I have no idea how often that happens vs just lubricating basic necessary economic activity.
When it doesn’t work is people getting fancy BMW’s they convinced themselves they would be able to afford somehow, but I have no idea how often that happens vs just lubricating basic necessary economic activity.
There are a lot of places in the US where taking the bus/bike/walk is impractical, and the idea that people already on the edge can just snap their fingers and start saving $500/month is pretty out of touch.
I'm not on the edge, but I am awful at saving money. Whereas loans I'll typically pay back in under half the time.
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On a societal scale, those $3000 cars likely only exist because others are frivolous and buy new cars on debt.
Some strategies work for individuals but not universally.
Some strategies work for individuals but not universally.
OK, then the question just becomes why people don't settle for older cars until that drives the prices into a new equilibrium where the choice isn't as obvious any longer.
Well, if people start buying the cheaper cars, it seems like a win for society, as there will be less people getting into debt. Seems like a win win to me.
On a societal level, we externalize most of the costs associated with auto crashes. I suspect that if we better rolled the true cost of injuries into the cost of car ownership (say, by increasing the minimum liability insurance to the cost of several statistical lives) the cheapest cars to own would be small and fairly new.
> say, by increasing the minimum liability insurance to the cost of several statistical lives
I still remember arguing with some people on the internet about how irrelevant what insurance someone bought was if you got hit by them. After all, you'd have to get into quite the accident to exceed the liability limits on car insurance.
I was so sure I was right. Then they introduced me to the idea you can drive in the US with insurance that wouldn't even cover the costs of a new medium sized sedan.
I still remember arguing with some people on the internet about how irrelevant what insurance someone bought was if you got hit by them. After all, you'd have to get into quite the accident to exceed the liability limits on car insurance.
I was so sure I was right. Then they introduced me to the idea you can drive in the US with insurance that wouldn't even cover the costs of a new medium sized sedan.
>I was so sure I was right. Then they introduced me to the idea you can drive in the US with insurance that wouldn't even cover the costs of a new medium sized sedan.
Yup. I mean, obviously, many people would not be able to afford reasonable levels of insurance, so instead of subsidizing public transit, or even directly subsidizing auto insurance or something, instead we leave it so that the costs of accidents are borne by victims who are unlucky enough to be hit by people who are carrying minimum driving insurance.
This means that if you are a responsible driver, you not only carry substantial liability insurance, in case you hurt someone else, but you also carry substantial 'uninsured motorist' coverage, which covers you in case someone who has minimum insurance hurts you.
Because of this, the cost of insurance varies radically; from almost nothing to rather more than the cost of a new compact car. And it scales, usually, with income, which is fine, really, but I think the way we do it (by throwing people who can't afford that rather expensive 'uninsured motorist' coverage or people who are hit outside their cars under the bus) is pretty messed up.
Yup. I mean, obviously, many people would not be able to afford reasonable levels of insurance, so instead of subsidizing public transit, or even directly subsidizing auto insurance or something, instead we leave it so that the costs of accidents are borne by victims who are unlucky enough to be hit by people who are carrying minimum driving insurance.
This means that if you are a responsible driver, you not only carry substantial liability insurance, in case you hurt someone else, but you also carry substantial 'uninsured motorist' coverage, which covers you in case someone who has minimum insurance hurts you.
Because of this, the cost of insurance varies radically; from almost nothing to rather more than the cost of a new compact car. And it scales, usually, with income, which is fine, really, but I think the way we do it (by throwing people who can't afford that rather expensive 'uninsured motorist' coverage or people who are hit outside their cars under the bus) is pretty messed up.
On the contrary, uninsured motorist insurance in the US is very inexpensive. $76 per year for half a million dollars coverage is typical (current quote from Geico).
Except that the very idea is astonishing when compared to the legal minimum insurance which sits at around 1 million dollars in the UK iirc.
I suspect that the main difference is that we are happier conceptually to say "you cannot afford insurance = you cannot drive". Driving without insurance is, of course, a crime. People still do it, and insurers will cover accidents involving the uninsured - but because it's less common the feature is basically just included by defualt in most fully comp policies
I suspect that the main difference is that we are happier conceptually to say "you cannot afford insurance = you cannot drive". Driving without insurance is, of course, a crime. People still do it, and insurers will cover accidents involving the uninsured - but because it's less common the feature is basically just included by defualt in most fully comp policies
It's easy to exaggerate the differences between the UK and the US, merely because the US is a bit unfamiliar. When there is a small cost for something that exists in both countries, it is not an earth shattering difference for it to be paid from taxes in the one case and part of the insurance premium in the other.
To wit, uninsured motorist coverage is provided by the government in the UK, from what I read:
"The Motor Insurers' Bureau (MIB) compensates the victims of road accidents caused by uninsured and untraced motorists."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance
You can get $1 million in liability insurance in the US, and people do. It's not unaffordable, and while it is a pre-requisite to the uninsured coverage mentioned previously, it can be purchased alone.
To wit, uninsured motorist coverage is provided by the government in the UK, from what I read:
"The Motor Insurers' Bureau (MIB) compensates the victims of road accidents caused by uninsured and untraced motorists."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance
You can get $1 million in liability insurance in the US, and people do. It's not unaffordable, and while it is a pre-requisite to the uninsured coverage mentioned previously, it can be purchased alone.
And have much worse outcomes in crashes (which increase the cost to society) - that's the reason why for example the new Mini's Fiat 500's are larger and are much more survivable.
Would you rather crash in a smart car or a small SUV
Would you rather crash in a smart car or a small SUV
Outcomes for you? or for the person you hit? If we could all agree to use smaller cars, we'd all be better off.
Even within the 'bigger is better' arms-race limits, (you are better off in a vehicle that is heavier than your victim) you are dramatically better off in a minivan than in a similarly sized truck or other body-on-frame vehicle.
Even within the 'bigger is better' arms-race limits, (you are better off in a vehicle that is heavier than your victim) you are dramatically better off in a minivan than in a similarly sized truck or other body-on-frame vehicle.
The question is, how many $3,000 cars can we actually produce. At the moment, we do not actually produce any. Instead, we produce expensive cars, and a non-trivial amount of people then choice to sell their current car at a lower price then it cost to construct the car in the first place.
These $3k cars are second or 3rd hand ones probably ex fleet ones.
>You can buy a car (or truck) for $3000 that will last several years without requiring any huge mechanic bills or exotic maintenance - heck, I’ve done it.
I've done it, too. The thing is, even if the car is perfect, a car 10-20 years behind in safety features is dramatically less safe than a new car. On top of that, a $3000 car is not going to be perfect. Your suspension will have a lot more slop, etc, etc...
I mean, I'm not saying that a $3000 car is necessarily unsafe, just that it's less safe than a new one, and if you carry adequate liability insurance, the tco might not be that much lower than a cheaper new or nearly new car.
Now, most people only carry a few tens of thousands of dollars in liability insurance, and don't really concern themselves with risk to other people above and beyond that, if nothing else, out of financial necessity, and in that case, yes, the $3000 car is the clear choice.
I've done it, too. The thing is, even if the car is perfect, a car 10-20 years behind in safety features is dramatically less safe than a new car. On top of that, a $3000 car is not going to be perfect. Your suspension will have a lot more slop, etc, etc...
I mean, I'm not saying that a $3000 car is necessarily unsafe, just that it's less safe than a new one, and if you carry adequate liability insurance, the tco might not be that much lower than a cheaper new or nearly new car.
Now, most people only carry a few tens of thousands of dollars in liability insurance, and don't really concern themselves with risk to other people above and beyond that, if nothing else, out of financial necessity, and in that case, yes, the $3000 car is the clear choice.
Good time to point out that all cars entering or exiting New York City via a bridge or tunnel are scanned.
Why tunnels and bridges, specifically?
They act as natural choke points since Manhattan is an island.
In turn, that means that you know who entered or exited Manhattan and can therefore deduce who is currently still there.
I would imagine in the event of an incident related to a vehicle, you could start with the list of recent entrants and use it to start building a timeline.
In turn, that means that you know who entered or exited Manhattan and can therefore deduce who is currently still there.
I would imagine in the event of an incident related to a vehicle, you could start with the list of recent entrants and use it to start building a timeline.
Wild speculation: Bridges and tunnels are more sensitive infrastructure, this is done for security reason. In case of some kind of emergency they could tell how many people/who might be in there. Collect data on usage that might be relevant to the unique maintenance needs of bridges and tunnels. On an island like Manhattan, for example, bridges and tunnels represent many of the ways in and out, so would be natural places to surveil for various reason.
I assume that's where the scanners are mounted.
Wow, everything in this article is horrifying:
> the rising deployment of remote engine cutoffs and GPS locators in cars
Wait, so people can remotely track my car or turn it off? This doesn't sound like a hack away from disaster at all.
> The companyʼs goal is to capture every plate in Ohio and use that information to reveal patterns…“Itʼs kind of scary, but itʼs amazing,” said Alana Ferrante, chief executive of Relentless.
No, it's just scary.
> Repo agents are responsible for the majority of the billions of license plate scans produced nationwide. But they donʼt control the information. Most of that data is owned by Digital Recognition Network (DRN), a Fort Worth company that is the largest provider of license-plate-recognition systems. And DRN sells the information to insurance companies, private investigators — even other repo agents.
As if you couldn't make a bad situation worse: let's give all the information to a private company that has every reason to resell all that data.
> the rising deployment of remote engine cutoffs and GPS locators in cars
Wait, so people can remotely track my car or turn it off? This doesn't sound like a hack away from disaster at all.
> The companyʼs goal is to capture every plate in Ohio and use that information to reveal patterns…“Itʼs kind of scary, but itʼs amazing,” said Alana Ferrante, chief executive of Relentless.
No, it's just scary.
> Repo agents are responsible for the majority of the billions of license plate scans produced nationwide. But they donʼt control the information. Most of that data is owned by Digital Recognition Network (DRN), a Fort Worth company that is the largest provider of license-plate-recognition systems. And DRN sells the information to insurance companies, private investigators — even other repo agents.
As if you couldn't make a bad situation worse: let's give all the information to a private company that has every reason to resell all that data.
One of many reasons all my vehicles are old-fashioned, analog, non-computerized motors. They're easiest to work on, too. Which sucks, because a computer system in a car or motorcycle could have really been an opportunity, but it's one that has been used almost exclusively to fuck things up for the user.
Wait, so people can remotely track my car or turn it off?
Under those circumstances it's not really "your" car.
Yes, you might have put down 5% of the total purchase price. So you have a title, and legally you own the car. But 95% of the "skin in the game" is the lender's. The car belongs mostly to the lender.
Don't like that? Easy solution, don't be a deadbeat. Or save up and pay cash.
I agree with the rest of your post. The privacy implications are quite scary.
Under those circumstances it's not really "your" car.
Yes, you might have put down 5% of the total purchase price. So you have a title, and legally you own the car. But 95% of the "skin in the game" is the lender's. The car belongs mostly to the lender.
Don't like that? Easy solution, don't be a deadbeat. Or save up and pay cash.
I agree with the rest of your post. The privacy implications are quite scary.
In most states you don't actually receive the vehicle title on a new car until you finish paying off the loan. Lenders hold on to the title so that buyers can't resell or export the car.
Even lessees should and do have rights. For example, landlords can't just do whatever they want if a renter misses a payment.
When I pay off the car, does the device get removed, or do I just come to an agreement with the dealer that they won't remotely disable my car or track me? Actually, when I buy a new car with cash, do they remove the device, or are they just lazy and install one in every car?
For the very expensive cars they will send agent to remove ot at their expense.
Its funny but most contracts wont tell you you have this kind of device on you. Its mostly for expensive cars that havent been paid in month. My brother worked as mechanic and people constantly came to remove it off the car. He used to do that for a fee because its not his responsibility to check who owns the car. He assumes whomever shows up at the shop with keys and money to pay for his work, hes ready to go.
I always wondered how much it pissed them off. One time out of curiosity they left device hooked to batter for some time. It took agent three weeks to show up (i bet you once you stop driving that where they send someone to try to pick it up). The agent was rude and angry to give out the car cause he seen device pinging from said location. Altho he didnt have warrant they let him in the lot out of shits and giggles just to waste his time in Georgia 103 degrees summer daylight to walk around the lot size of a football stadium in search for a grey Audi lol ;)
Its funny but most contracts wont tell you you have this kind of device on you. Its mostly for expensive cars that havent been paid in month. My brother worked as mechanic and people constantly came to remove it off the car. He used to do that for a fee because its not his responsibility to check who owns the car. He assumes whomever shows up at the shop with keys and money to pay for his work, hes ready to go.
I always wondered how much it pissed them off. One time out of curiosity they left device hooked to batter for some time. It took agent three weeks to show up (i bet you once you stop driving that where they send someone to try to pick it up). The agent was rude and angry to give out the car cause he seen device pinging from said location. Altho he didnt have warrant they let him in the lot out of shits and giggles just to waste his time in Georgia 103 degrees summer daylight to walk around the lot size of a football stadium in search for a grey Audi lol ;)
why is this post getting downvoted? clearly these devices work, otherwise lenders won't be using them. if the devices are banned/never existed, lenders will either not lend in risky cases they would have otherwise lent or charge higher interest rates.
People seem to take offense with being called “deadbeats”.
I think though the term is warranted. It is despicable to enter an agreement to lease a car from a lender and then not make payments.
I think though the term is warranted. It is despicable to enter an agreement to lease a car from a lender and then not make payments.
It's nothing compared to the despicable ways "car dealerships" (really finance scams) steal from poor people.
https://youtu.be/4U2eDJnwz_s
Or how the National Association of Mortgage Financers or whatever it's called defaulted in their mortgage.
Or how companies declare bankruptcy.
Default is a part of finance. Good faith bankruptcy is not ethically challenged. Both parties to a contract are responsible for counterparty risk.
https://youtu.be/4U2eDJnwz_s
Or how the National Association of Mortgage Financers or whatever it's called defaulted in their mortgage.
Or how companies declare bankruptcy.
Default is a part of finance. Good faith bankruptcy is not ethically challenged. Both parties to a contract are responsible for counterparty risk.
It doesn't suddenly become possible when you start missing payments.
Following your logic there, I would be able to pay 5,001 on a 10,000 car and be able to lay claim to it.
Lending finance is a bit more ethereal than that, in practice.
Lending finance is a bit more ethereal than that, in practice.
> the rising deployment of remote engine cutoffs and GPS locators in cars
How is this legal? Cutting off the engine at a bad time could cause horrific accidents, putting the car owner and occupants of surrounding cars in lethal harm.
Where is the class action law suit for this?
How is this legal? Cutting off the engine at a bad time could cause horrific accidents, putting the car owner and occupants of surrounding cars in lethal harm.
Where is the class action law suit for this?
These sort of devices seem to show up a lot on cars from "Buy Here, Pay Here" lots (for buyers at risk of default), and have been for a while now. This is one the ways those sorts of lots make a lot of money; an couple of acquaintances run some of these lots and I'm told some cars may be repossessed many times, often paying themselves off many times over. This is another mode of fleecing the poor like payday loan vendors, and it's real lucrative (but pretty morally pungent).
It's sort of funny that a lot of people in the comments here had no idea that this stuff exists; it highlights the lack of demographic overlap between people posting on HN and the sort of person that would wind up getting a device like this installed (or need to use a buy here pay here lot).
It's sort of funny that a lot of people in the comments here had no idea that this stuff exists; it highlights the lack of demographic overlap between people posting on HN and the sort of person that would wind up getting a device like this installed (or need to use a buy here pay here lot).
I'd expect they prevent starting the car, rather than shutting off in the middle of the highway.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/09/car_lenders_u...
> "We can disable the ignition but not while you're driving," Melanie Boudreau, a spokesperson at IMETRIK, a Canadian maker of starter interrupt devices that run around $100 each, told Fortune. "We don't want to kill you."
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/09/car_lenders_u...
> "We can disable the ignition but not while you're driving," Melanie Boudreau, a spokesperson at IMETRIK, a Canadian maker of starter interrupt devices that run around $100 each, told Fortune. "We don't want to kill you."
That's slightly better I guess (though at driver in the article claimed otherwise), but the driver is still under the expectation that their vehicle will start when they turn the key. What happens when the car won't turn on in an emergency?
Is that any different from the car not being there because it's been repossessed?
Or you shut it off at a train crossing by accident, a trains is oncoming and you cannot get the car started again? With all your children in the back seats and no time to get them all out?
It may obstruct something by remaining standing when the driver wanted to just make a quick stop.
You stall in the middle of the highway and need to get it going again?
>Wait, so people can remotely track my car or turn it off? This doesn't sound like a hack away from disaster at all.
you think that's bad? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17094213
you think that's bad? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17094213
> This doesn't sound like a hack away from disaster at all.
It's been done. https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig...
It's been done. https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig...
As Michael Hastings well knows.
>Hastings, an acclaimed war correspondent and vocal critic of government mass surveillance, died in the early hours of Tuesday, June 18, 2013, when his Mercedes C250 Coupe apparently lost control and burst into flames before slamming into a palm tree.
>Witnesses to the accident, which occurred around 4:25am in the leafy Hancock Park neighbourhood of Los Angeles, said the car appeared to be travelling at top speed and was creating “sparks and flames” before it went off the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzWHZngfONo
>Hastings, an acclaimed war correspondent and vocal critic of government mass surveillance, died in the early hours of Tuesday, June 18, 2013, when his Mercedes C250 Coupe apparently lost control and burst into flames before slamming into a palm tree.
>Witnesses to the accident, which occurred around 4:25am in the leafy Hancock Park neighbourhood of Los Angeles, said the car appeared to be travelling at top speed and was creating “sparks and flames” before it went off the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzWHZngfONo
If one has that sort of enemy, one should drive a manual transmission.
It has been argued that pretty much all cars have brakes that are more powerful than the engine, and thus there ought to be no way for a car to truly run away.
On the other hand, it has been claimed, and seems reasonable, that in some cases, applying the brakes moderately against a car running at full throttle leads them to overheat and fail, and then there's no way to stop.
I feel like a manual transmission could be a safety device in another way - if you can pass the threshold of shifting for yourself, it may limit how impaired, by drugs/alcohol or dementia etc, you can be while still driving.
On the other hand, it has been claimed, and seems reasonable, that in some cases, applying the brakes moderately against a car running at full throttle leads them to overheat and fail, and then there's no way to stop.
I feel like a manual transmission could be a safety device in another way - if you can pass the threshold of shifting for yourself, it may limit how impaired, by drugs/alcohol or dementia etc, you can be while still driving.
> DRN sells the information to insurance companies, private investigators ...
I wonder if anyone in the insurance industry could comment on how this data is used by them.
I wonder if anyone in the insurance industry could comment on how this data is used by them.
Not in the insurance industry, but as someone who is aware of how they price risk: the zip code you park in at night heavily influences loss rates (and therefore premiums) and self-reports of it are not always accurate.
Different types of insurance price comprehensive in radically different ways. I was considering getting classic car insurance from a different company than my regular insurance. They heavily penalize you if you park in the city, and especially without an individual locked garage. That kind of makes sense, but my regular insurance penalizes you if you park somewhere other than you live, even if it's in a low-crime suburb and not exposed. They are fine with parking in the middle of the city. So the optimal strategy depends on which insurance you go with because they have very different prejudices.
Disgusting. We need to rethink “privacy and surveillance” in the age of 24/7 cameras and image analysis.
Not a fan of the guy but it makes sense why steves jobs would "supposedly" keep buying a new car to avoid getting license plates.
unrelated, but REPO MAN (1984) is an excellent film.
I watched it, and don't get all the fuss.
The more you drive, the less intelligent you are.
Repo Men (2010) is even better.
In the future, beyond repossessing cars, why not also repossess artificial organ replacements?
In the future, beyond repossessing cars, why not also repossess artificial organ replacements?
>> unrelated, but REPO MAN (1984) is an excellent film
> Repo Men (2010) is even better
That's not a very widely shared assessment.
Repo Man (1984): 98% on RT, average rating 8/10. Ebert 3/4. IMDB 6.9/10. 75% Metacritic.
Repo Men (2010): 22% RT, average rating 4.2/10. Ebert 2/4. IMDB 6.3/10. 32% Metacritic.
1984 had a lot of science fiction movies: The Terminator, Dune, The Last Starfighter, The Adventurers of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension, Starman, Repo Man, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock; Night of the Comet, The Philadelphia Experiment, 1984, The Ice Pirates, Supergirl, The Brother from Another Planet, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, Dreamscape, Firestarter, Electric Dreams, C.H.U.D, The Return of Godzilla, The Toxic Avenger, and more.
> Repo Men (2010) is even better
That's not a very widely shared assessment.
Repo Man (1984): 98% on RT, average rating 8/10. Ebert 3/4. IMDB 6.9/10. 75% Metacritic.
Repo Men (2010): 22% RT, average rating 4.2/10. Ebert 2/4. IMDB 6.3/10. 32% Metacritic.
1984 had a lot of science fiction movies: The Terminator, Dune, The Last Starfighter, The Adventurers of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension, Starman, Repo Man, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock; Night of the Comet, The Philadelphia Experiment, 1984, The Ice Pirates, Supergirl, The Brother from Another Planet, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, Dreamscape, Firestarter, Electric Dreams, C.H.U.D, The Return of Godzilla, The Toxic Avenger, and more.
Repo! The Genetic Opera IMHO is even better with a similar premise.
Ive had repo agents posing as customers looking to "get their car," which is pretty funny, but ive also seen agents harassing the front office staff with demands for a vehicle being worked on. Sometimes a driver will park their car to suddenly find theyve been "hitched up" to a seedy looking tow apparatus on the back of an often ironically leased light duty truck. Repo agents in this case show up as "innocent" middle men while a driver pleads and begs over the phone with a lender to not tow their car for any number of humiliating excuses.
Ive also had cars towed to the shop i work at complaining that the vehicle does not start, which are sometimes the saddest jobs to work on as automotive dealerships typically install an ECU interlock somewhere in the vehicle to remotely disable or neuter certain features of the car if you dont make a payment. I usually remove the devices, not out of a kindness to the customer but because they can make diagnosing real problems with vehicles infuriatingly difficult. They can also be triggered to honk the horn at random or odd intervals as a reminder to pay the piper, which turns a regular shift in the garage into a massive headache trying to track down the upset BMW or Mercedes that wont stop making racket in the lot.