Secrets of Resilience: Lessons from adults who overcame difficult childhoods(wsj.com)
wsj.com
Secrets of Resilience: Lessons from adults who overcame difficult childhoods
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-secrets-of-resilience-1510329202
98 comments
My story is not too different. I grew up in a dirt poor Asian village. We didn't have running water and for first few years of my life, not even a toilet. Parents taking active part in kids education was not common. I remember my parents bought be one toy when I was in second or third grade, and that was it. We used to get one pair of new clothes once every year during festivals. That's about it. Nobody ever celebrated birthdays. I don't even think I remembered my own birthday growing up.
On top of that my parents fought like cats and dogs almost everyday.
The only thing that helped me survive and succeed was my competitive nature and perseverance. I worked hard, and still do, for things I want. I am not trying to brag, but starting in abject poverty and then ending up in a one of the biggest American cities making $200k is surreal.
On top of that my parents fought like cats and dogs almost everyday.
The only thing that helped me survive and succeed was my competitive nature and perseverance. I worked hard, and still do, for things I want. I am not trying to brag, but starting in abject poverty and then ending up in a one of the biggest American cities making $200k is surreal.
Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed reading your comment. I am genuinely glad it all worked out for you. I can identify with not celebrating birthdays and the lack of toys. As a result it feels awkward when people wish me happy birthday.
I see the term surviorship bias quite a lot on HN and I sometimes feel it applies to me. When debates happen on Africa and poverty I tend not to be as sympathetic. I get impatient and rather want Africans to discuss how we can start building our own electric cars and solar power stations. Which is interesting because most of my cousins are still in the village and running water and healthcare are their biggest concerns. Having ended up in technology and living in a fairly modern city I have to consciously change mindset between understanding the latest features on Postgresql and applying my mind to getting basics such as runnning water to my village.
I "made" it because I am stubborn, had parents who believe in education and because I hate being beholden to someone. I am beholden to by boss but hey we can't have everything.
I see the term surviorship bias quite a lot on HN and I sometimes feel it applies to me. When debates happen on Africa and poverty I tend not to be as sympathetic. I get impatient and rather want Africans to discuss how we can start building our own electric cars and solar power stations. Which is interesting because most of my cousins are still in the village and running water and healthcare are their biggest concerns. Having ended up in technology and living in a fairly modern city I have to consciously change mindset between understanding the latest features on Postgresql and applying my mind to getting basics such as runnning water to my village.
I "made" it because I am stubborn, had parents who believe in education and because I hate being beholden to someone. I am beholden to by boss but hey we can't have everything.
> I "made" it because I am stubborn, had parents who believe in education and because I hate being beholden to someone.
...and lucky. One African to another: it took me hard work, determination, and a whole lot of luck. It wasn't just one thing - but a chain of fortuitous events. My path is certainly not repeatable, so I'm certain my story is that of survivorship bias. I know lots of smarter/more hard-working people who didn't catch the same break that I did. Can you honestly say that you're that much better than your cousins?
...and lucky. One African to another: it took me hard work, determination, and a whole lot of luck. It wasn't just one thing - but a chain of fortuitous events. My path is certainly not repeatable, so I'm certain my story is that of survivorship bias. I know lots of smarter/more hard-working people who didn't catch the same break that I did. Can you honestly say that you're that much better than your cousins?
I must clarify what I mean by "made". I have a university degree and am a mid-level employee in a large corporate company. I don't have to worry about food, shelter and healthcare but I have to work for the next 20 years to pay off my bond. I am one of the millions of workers, not a millionaire. I am not exceptional.
I agree with you on the determination and hard work. There is no substitute.
On luck, do agree it plays a role. I think the first bit of luck is the parents you are born to. My grandmother had seven children. I have at last count between 50-60 cousins. Probably higher number of nephews and nieces. Some of my cousins are already grandparents. My dad was the last born so some of my cousins are almost as old as he is.
Now back to luck, my observation looking at my large family is that the values and principles your parents instill in you have an impact. Some of my cousins believe success comes from witchcraft, so much so that there are tensions within the family as some branches accuse others of witchcraft at their expense. Having good parents even just one parent who doesn't poison your mind is the first bit of luck. The rest is how you use it. The second observation I have made is that kind people seem to make good parents. Hear me out. I have aunts in similar position, poor, uneducated and largely dependant on the land. When I visit, I have observed one will complain about everything and offer me nothing to eat or drink. Another aunt in a similar position will offer me whatever little she has. She will make it a point to collect some of the wild fruit I used to love as a kid. She does not act poor and helpless, she just acts like my aunt and treats me like a visitor not a savior. I suspect she doesn't view herself as being helpless and poor but she feels she can contribute in her own way. I think she instills these same values in her children. My observation is that children from such families tend to be more successful, at least this is the case in my extended family. Success is relative off course.
I agree with you on the determination and hard work. There is no substitute.
On luck, do agree it plays a role. I think the first bit of luck is the parents you are born to. My grandmother had seven children. I have at last count between 50-60 cousins. Probably higher number of nephews and nieces. Some of my cousins are already grandparents. My dad was the last born so some of my cousins are almost as old as he is.
Now back to luck, my observation looking at my large family is that the values and principles your parents instill in you have an impact. Some of my cousins believe success comes from witchcraft, so much so that there are tensions within the family as some branches accuse others of witchcraft at their expense. Having good parents even just one parent who doesn't poison your mind is the first bit of luck. The rest is how you use it. The second observation I have made is that kind people seem to make good parents. Hear me out. I have aunts in similar position, poor, uneducated and largely dependant on the land. When I visit, I have observed one will complain about everything and offer me nothing to eat or drink. Another aunt in a similar position will offer me whatever little she has. She will make it a point to collect some of the wild fruit I used to love as a kid. She does not act poor and helpless, she just acts like my aunt and treats me like a visitor not a savior. I suspect she doesn't view herself as being helpless and poor but she feels she can contribute in her own way. I think she instills these same values in her children. My observation is that children from such families tend to be more successful, at least this is the case in my extended family. Success is relative off course.
Thank you. I appreciate your sentiments.
There's definitely a survivorship bias. It worked out for me with lot of hard work and few strokes of luck here and there. I know bunch of my classmates from grade school who couldn't do much with their lives because they lacked resources and opportunities.
I understand your impatience with your countrymen, but without enough resources and opportunities, it's hard to make any progress for vast majority. I know Americans like to tell their less fortunate to pick themselves up with their bootstraps, but that's an almost impossible task, literally and figuratively.
There's definitely a survivorship bias. It worked out for me with lot of hard work and few strokes of luck here and there. I know bunch of my classmates from grade school who couldn't do much with their lives because they lacked resources and opportunities.
I understand your impatience with your countrymen, but without enough resources and opportunities, it's hard to make any progress for vast majority. I know Americans like to tell their less fortunate to pick themselves up with their bootstraps, but that's an almost impossible task, literally and figuratively.
Uh, brag! That’s about as brag worthy as one could get. Wow! Please do a blog or something
Ha! Can't tell if you are being sarcastic.
I'm sure it wasn't. You've described a path that most of us can't help but admire.
:) Thanks. I wish I was a better writer. I thought about writing a fiction based on my life many times, but I am not even close to being a decent writer
If you get a journalist interested, you can tell your story to him (or her).
They do sometimes highlight things that wouldn't be what you would have, or distort things a bit, but it would get out there.
They do sometimes highlight things that wouldn't be what you would have, or distort things a bit, but it would get out there.
Reread your post. Your prose is clean and tight. You don’t need the help of a journalist. I should know; I was one. Please email me if you are still unsure. Not selling anything!
I could not have said it better myself
NOT sarcastic! These stories are inspiring and important.
That's great! I hope you share your story with others who've come from similar backgrounds. It's great to know people can make it.
I didn't really have a childhood that could be described as "difficult", but having grown up on a farm and having ended up workin' in the big city for a tech company, I suspect we have at least one common experience.
Do you ever sit and think sometimes how weird it is, to know all these things and have all these skills from your earlier life that have, like, no relevance or use in your current life?
It's weird to me how much I know about pigs, tractors and corn/soybeans/wheat that just doesn't come up much when you're sitting at a computer typing all day. (Hay bales should be stacked "sideways", to allow air to flow up through them, so that they will dry safely and not spontaneously combust. With straw it is fine to stack it any which way; some people prefer to stack it with the wires up so that it is easier to walk on, others the same as hay for consistency.)
Do you ever sit and think sometimes how weird it is, to know all these things and have all these skills from your earlier life that have, like, no relevance or use in your current life?
It's weird to me how much I know about pigs, tractors and corn/soybeans/wheat that just doesn't come up much when you're sitting at a computer typing all day. (Hay bales should be stacked "sideways", to allow air to flow up through them, so that they will dry safely and not spontaneously combust. With straw it is fine to stack it any which way; some people prefer to stack it with the wires up so that it is easier to walk on, others the same as hay for consistency.)
:-). I totally agree. I keep an eye on rainfall totals because that determines how good the harvest with be. Nevermind the fact that I buy all my food from the shop. I don't see cow dung or any farm animal dung as being dirty. We used to use it as binding agent for the mud huts and spread it on the floor, to make the floor. I often terrorise my city slicker friends with cow dung. I can make cars out of wire. When I see wires I often find myself visualisng the cars I could make. We used to milk cows and goats, plough with cows, pull carts with the donkeys, fish with home made hooks and nets. None of this useful when trying to tune my SQL queries.
I grew up rather privileged,but I share a lot of the same sentiments, having paid a lot of attention to my father who was raised on a farm. I love knowing about farms/nature and still hope to continue learning more.
I'm in a similar boat with regards to possessing a good deal of knowledge and skills that could be considered 'irrelevant', as they would look out of place on my current resume. These non-linear career paths typically give an individual a level of intellectual depth that might otherwise be difficult to obtain, and the added knowledge allows for added meaningful connections and creativity.
I just learned that hay and straw are different things. Thanks!
hay spontaneously combusts?!
I mean, "spontaneous" may be a bit misleading, since it is a very slow, gradual process, but yes.
Hay is basically grass clippings bundled together to feed to grass-eating animals when there isn't any.
Great care must be taken to collect hay when it is as dry as possible and store it in such a way as to dry it further and keep it dry because wet hay rots. Decay produces heat, and because hay is also a great insulator that heat can even reach the ignition point for the dry parts of the hay.
It tends to smolder, since it is predicated on being fairly wet at first and the middle where it is hottest will have bad airflow until the whole "being on fire" part dries the rest out, but it will set your barn on fire easily enough, and it's a real devil to put out, since you're usually trying to spray water through dozens of feet of hay to where the core of the problem actually is.
Hay is basically grass clippings bundled together to feed to grass-eating animals when there isn't any.
Great care must be taken to collect hay when it is as dry as possible and store it in such a way as to dry it further and keep it dry because wet hay rots. Decay produces heat, and because hay is also a great insulator that heat can even reach the ignition point for the dry parts of the hay.
It tends to smolder, since it is predicated on being fairly wet at first and the middle where it is hottest will have bad airflow until the whole "being on fire" part dries the rest out, but it will set your barn on fire easily enough, and it's a real devil to put out, since you're usually trying to spray water through dozens of feet of hay to where the core of the problem actually is.
Growing up hungry, with worn out second hand clothes, and dysfunctional families happens also in post-industrial societies. The hunger for knowledge and escape drove me to the library and the outdoors. I remember being young and thinking, if I can get $1500 dollars together, I will have made it. Every decade it seems to get another zero on the end of where I think I can be successful, and I continue to love to goto work. In contrast, many of the people I work with went to elite universities and had curated upbringings. I see them also be successful and start at a much higher footing in life. I put my kids in the second camp, for better or worse. Growing up hungry shapes me to this day decades later.
You bring up so three points that I think about quite a lot. First point, I often wonder what impact the curated upbringing I am giving my daugther will have on her future outlook on life. I know I can't possibly know and she will ber her own person but I am a parent and I do wonder. Doing what you love was an alien concept to me and my peers. It was a case of doing what needed to be done. Fullstop. I ended up doing Computer Science because that is what was available. I probably would have prefered civil engineering but I had to make do with what I got (no I am not complaining). I don't know how to be the parent/person that says do what you love. I always have done what needed to be done.
On definition of success and adding another zero to your income. I don't hold an idealist view of village people. Having grown up with them I see them as normal people. You get happy village people you get vindictive villagers and your get carefree villagers. Having said that I have to conceed that village people seem to be less stressed than city people. They own less whether it is clothes, cars, bicycles ... and they worry less. I often look at how much we have in the cities compared to the villagers and intrigued by how much we have is still not enough. I guess we measure ourselves againsts our city neighbours and our "needs" grow with time. It seems the more we have the more we want and the more taxes we pay. I always make it point to visit the village once a year. Sit around, do nothing, with no urgency. It gives one more perspective on life.
The final point you touch on is how we may have started our journeys in different places and positions but we end up in similar positions (yes I know surviorship bias comes in here). Some of my colleagues come from gang ridden townships, some had a silver spoon and went to the best schools. You would never be able to tell listening to our conversations. We all discussing the Soccer World Cup, our kids coming birthday parties, corrupt politians, our bosses and the rising taxes. We all just people.
On definition of success and adding another zero to your income. I don't hold an idealist view of village people. Having grown up with them I see them as normal people. You get happy village people you get vindictive villagers and your get carefree villagers. Having said that I have to conceed that village people seem to be less stressed than city people. They own less whether it is clothes, cars, bicycles ... and they worry less. I often look at how much we have in the cities compared to the villagers and intrigued by how much we have is still not enough. I guess we measure ourselves againsts our city neighbours and our "needs" grow with time. It seems the more we have the more we want and the more taxes we pay. I always make it point to visit the village once a year. Sit around, do nothing, with no urgency. It gives one more perspective on life.
The final point you touch on is how we may have started our journeys in different places and positions but we end up in similar positions (yes I know surviorship bias comes in here). Some of my colleagues come from gang ridden townships, some had a silver spoon and went to the best schools. You would never be able to tell listening to our conversations. We all discussing the Soccer World Cup, our kids coming birthday parties, corrupt politians, our bosses and the rising taxes. We all just people.
Thanks, I really liked the comment on chores with kids. I thought about that a lot this morning. Some people grow up doing nothing for themselves and seem to be successful in their specialization. Personally, I think the people that came from nothing are more of an anachronism than the curated upbringings (biased of course). Curated upbringings seem to have more reliable outcomes. Computers also ended up being my career and passion, but philosophy, architecture...
On money, it feels like a double edged sword. It makes life convenient, but it also disconnects us. As you point out, it only holds value in a situation, and it doesn't buy health, relationships, or time. I ride public transit to work for perspective. If I could teach my kids only one thing, it would to be empathetic towards others.
On money, it feels like a double edged sword. It makes life convenient, but it also disconnects us. As you point out, it only holds value in a situation, and it doesn't buy health, relationships, or time. I ride public transit to work for perspective. If I could teach my kids only one thing, it would to be empathetic towards others.
> Growing up hungry, with worn out second hand clothes, and dysfunctional families happens also in post-industrial societies.
Just pointing out that the parent didn't imply a dysfunctional family in their upbringing. Familial dysfunction is orthogonal to poor, hungry, and having old clothes; and in my opinion can be a far more life-constraining factor for the future.
Just pointing out that the parent didn't imply a dysfunctional family in their upbringing. Familial dysfunction is orthogonal to poor, hungry, and having old clothes; and in my opinion can be a far more life-constraining factor for the future.
I most definitely agree. I just typed a response further up this trail saying the first bit of luck is having good parents or a good parent. Some of my cousins believe success can be brought about through witchcraft. In most cases, it is, unfortunately, something they learn from their parents.
I was thinking this too. Dysfunction can disrupt childrens' understanding of the world. Causing mistrust, accepting / repeating violent and abusive behavior. Or causing cycles such as loneliness that compound consequences indefinitely. Not saying these can't be overcome but obviously some people don't make it.
I think part of it is that if you grow up poor you see a rise, where is a lot of people you are working with are happy where they are, although others perceive them as successful.
At risk of sounding pretentious, as you move through the economic strata of society, you realize that most people don't move - they are just where their initial socio-economic status put them.
So as a poor kid moving, you understand the ability to move up at a deeper level, and you are also capable of making moves.
I do find that the higher I move, the harder it is to compete.
Anyway, that's my rant. P.S. I am not implying I am somewhere high in life - far from it, but took a lot of little jumps to get even here, which is kind of depressing.
At risk of sounding pretentious, as you move through the economic strata of society, you realize that most people don't move - they are just where their initial socio-economic status put them.
So as a poor kid moving, you understand the ability to move up at a deeper level, and you are also capable of making moves.
I do find that the higher I move, the harder it is to compete.
Anyway, that's my rant. P.S. I am not implying I am somewhere high in life - far from it, but took a lot of little jumps to get even here, which is kind of depressing.
I think you have hit on the difference between real hardship and simply being poor. Hardship can happen at any economic level. We weren't poor, but all of us kids were abused in my family. I got the worst of it, so I hit bottom first.
But I bounced back quicker than my siblings, all of whom ended up dealing with drugs, alcohol problems, social problems, abusive relationships (they caused, and were afflicted by), and they are all in their 30s and 40s now.
I really wanted a peaceful childhood, but even today I struggle with the affects of it. Chores to us were more like punishment. When you knew you were going to get beaten, who can care if the house is clean? We would get beat whether we tried hard or not, so why try hard, better to try and have fun when you can... which is recipe for disaster and failure in adulthood.
But I bounced back quicker than my siblings, all of whom ended up dealing with drugs, alcohol problems, social problems, abusive relationships (they caused, and were afflicted by), and they are all in their 30s and 40s now.
I really wanted a peaceful childhood, but even today I struggle with the affects of it. Chores to us were more like punishment. When you knew you were going to get beaten, who can care if the house is clean? We would get beat whether we tried hard or not, so why try hard, better to try and have fun when you can... which is recipe for disaster and failure in adulthood.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am glad you bounced back and all the best to your siblings. It always warms my heart when I read heartfelt comments on real life.
I did want to add that it's good to hear about people being happy despite living in poverty. Sometimes poverty makes a bad situation worse, sometimes it doesn't affect anything, so maybe having good family and parents, maybe a safe community and similar things are what really matter?
> having chores when young was the biggest factor in how successful people became
A couple related articles from NPR:
- https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/06/09/6169288...
- https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/06/21/6217527...
The first article was discussed on HN:
- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17280710
A couple related articles from NPR:
- https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/06/09/6169288...
- https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/06/21/6217527...
The first article was discussed on HN:
- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17280710
> I read somewhere though, I think one of those decade long Harvard studies that having chores when young was the biggest factor in how successful people became.
That seems to make sense.
> I presume poor kids have to play a bigger role, hence have more chores in ensuring that household is fed and clothed.
But this seems to imply that poor kids are more successful because they do a lot of chores by virtue of being poor.
That seems to make sense.
> I presume poor kids have to play a bigger role, hence have more chores in ensuring that household is fed and clothed.
But this seems to imply that poor kids are more successful because they do a lot of chores by virtue of being poor.
I suppose you could put it like that. There two other angles to it. Poor people cannot afford what more well-off people can afford. To supplement our food, we always had chickens and a vegetable patch. Someone had to water the vegetables and feed the chickens else we wouldn't have enough food. The other side of the coin is that planting vegetables and growing chickens gives you a sense of achievement and self-confidence. You learn that if you water plants every day in a few months you will have food. This lesson and confidence can be applied to other fields. So you know that if you apply yourself to something every day you will reap what you sowed. This is why then these kids would be successful. I don't think you have to be poor to learn these lessons.
I would wonder if it was something more like:
having chores when young was the biggest factor (after we controlled for wealth, class, race, etc)
having chores when young was the biggest factor (after we controlled for wealth, class, race, etc)
Thank you for sharing your experiences.
Astounding achievements. You rock. I would love to hear more.
I don't buy that - my chores were a waste of ing time. I spent a lot of my childhood picking weeds, removing Colarado bugs from potatoes, etc.
Could have learned so much instead.
Edit: I think the main benefit I got from it is time to think about other stuff and some apathy to comforts/luxuries which a lot of my peers don't seem to be able to related to.
Could have learned so much instead.
Edit: I think the main benefit I got from it is time to think about other stuff and some apathy to comforts/luxuries which a lot of my peers don't seem to be able to related to.
A topic so close to my heart I can barely engage with it.
I credit my resilience to a sense of absolute worthlessness.
If you have seen the film Gattaca and the bit at the end how the non-modified person can beat the modified person... it comes down to not being afraid of the consequences, of literally being willing to die trying because what do you have to lose? That you would accept that, to die trying, stems from the worthlessness that one feels totally, and the worthlessness that the world and everyone around you communicates when you are so low.
Resilience, taking risks, fighting harder than anyone else, needing to always drive forwards or else fall backwards... for me it has an underlying secret: the profound sense of worthlessness as a human. From never really accepting you are valid and valuable even when you have "made it" by some definition. This is why I've made some decisions the way I have, I have nothing at all to lose... not even the value of life itself.
Which loops back to another recent theme on Twitter and HN and elsewhere... those dark thoughts of suicide if once thought, they never ever really leave.
NB: I'm fine, just being honest, feeling OK, in a good place... but this is what a hard life creates and such lives aren't lived for the purpose of being a lesson to others, and I'm not sure anyone should learn this lesson.
I credit my resilience to a sense of absolute worthlessness.
If you have seen the film Gattaca and the bit at the end how the non-modified person can beat the modified person... it comes down to not being afraid of the consequences, of literally being willing to die trying because what do you have to lose? That you would accept that, to die trying, stems from the worthlessness that one feels totally, and the worthlessness that the world and everyone around you communicates when you are so low.
Resilience, taking risks, fighting harder than anyone else, needing to always drive forwards or else fall backwards... for me it has an underlying secret: the profound sense of worthlessness as a human. From never really accepting you are valid and valuable even when you have "made it" by some definition. This is why I've made some decisions the way I have, I have nothing at all to lose... not even the value of life itself.
Which loops back to another recent theme on Twitter and HN and elsewhere... those dark thoughts of suicide if once thought, they never ever really leave.
NB: I'm fine, just being honest, feeling OK, in a good place... but this is what a hard life creates and such lives aren't lived for the purpose of being a lesson to others, and I'm not sure anyone should learn this lesson.
I think it takes a strong mind to overcome that belief framework.
That's not to say it didn't have inherent worth for you while you went through whatever you did that made you feel that way, but finding flaw in your own arguments/belief systems is a pretty significant skill set to learn too.
Learn to be resilient against yourself. Learn to take risks against yourself. Learn to fight harder against yourself, than anyone will ever fight against you.
Maybe you can, maybe you do, but that loop that brings you back to suicidal feelings is neither strength nor weakness.
That's not to say it didn't have inherent worth for you while you went through whatever you did that made you feel that way, but finding flaw in your own arguments/belief systems is a pretty significant skill set to learn too.
Learn to be resilient against yourself. Learn to take risks against yourself. Learn to fight harder against yourself, than anyone will ever fight against you.
Maybe you can, maybe you do, but that loop that brings you back to suicidal feelings is neither strength nor weakness.
This line from Gattaca always hits me so hard (when the genetically engineered brother asks the protagonist how he always won when they competed to swim as far out from shore as possible):
"I never saved anything for the swim back."
"I never saved anything for the swim back."
He only beats the improved one once, as far as I can recall - the last time, the one that matters, when they go all out.
I come from a very similar perspective. Worthless but also like... what does "worth" even mean. We are all dust.
I think people spend way too much time wondering about their self worth, or if they will fail or are good at what they do, they confuse task strength with self worth, but if you have no self worth you can avoid a lot of time wasting mental loops, instead it's a focus on task assignment/alignment where you happen to be the person involved.
For me it's basically, the fact that external indicators will tell you you failed or suck and don't worry about it so much, just keep failing but learn each time.
I try only to change myself through knowing more, being more proficient, learning skills that are hard for me to learn, understanding things more holistically.
I haven't really struggled with suicidal thoughts though, I think that there is a certain level of self worth or ego required to be suicidal... to me, all of the existential questions, questions of meaning I don't have an answer for... I just don't know, I'm keeping my eyes pealed for Truth but to say it doesn't exist to me denotes a level of certainty I can't muster either, despair seems like it comes from a place of certainty, so I'll just keep my eyes open until my body gives out or Truth becomes apparent, after all I've go nowhere else to be.
I think people spend way too much time wondering about their self worth, or if they will fail or are good at what they do, they confuse task strength with self worth, but if you have no self worth you can avoid a lot of time wasting mental loops, instead it's a focus on task assignment/alignment where you happen to be the person involved.
For me it's basically, the fact that external indicators will tell you you failed or suck and don't worry about it so much, just keep failing but learn each time.
I try only to change myself through knowing more, being more proficient, learning skills that are hard for me to learn, understanding things more holistically.
I haven't really struggled with suicidal thoughts though, I think that there is a certain level of self worth or ego required to be suicidal... to me, all of the existential questions, questions of meaning I don't have an answer for... I just don't know, I'm keeping my eyes pealed for Truth but to say it doesn't exist to me denotes a level of certainty I can't muster either, despair seems like it comes from a place of certainty, so I'll just keep my eyes open until my body gives out or Truth becomes apparent, after all I've go nowhere else to be.
I too had a difficult childhood and overcame some moderate difficulties. Then I proceeded to waste my adult youth (20s and most of my 30s) in a multi decade pit of depression and withdrawal from the world. So let's not forget survivorship bias.
I can echo that. Low middle class, alcoholic parent, failed family businesses that I wasted teenage and early 20s in, just rebuilding now.
Tragic.
Tragic.
Add me to that list. Became sole breadwinner at 22 for a family that had $2M in debt due to failed business. At one point, I was held hostage at gun point by a debt collector. Deeply scarred by debt to this day. Scared of investing anywhere and just hoarding for a rainy day. No family to speak of except wife and child. Very few friends. No purpose to life other than seeing my child grow up and be successful.
> No purpose to life other than seeing my child grow up and be successful.
FWIW, in my opinion (and in the opinion of evolution and biology), raising children is the purpose to life. By having children, we give another human the ability to experience life. And, for most of us, they are the only lasting mark we will leave on existence.
FWIW, in my opinion (and in the opinion of evolution and biology), raising children is the purpose to life. By having children, we give another human the ability to experience life. And, for most of us, they are the only lasting mark we will leave on existence.
Aside from the philosophical side of your argument, there is of course the biological argument: There are far too many people. I understand that anyone who advocates reproductive moderation will get out-competed by everyone else, but that doesn't mean that we have to accept mentally that this is the purpose of life. I'd argue that seeing this as your one and only purpose makes you akin to a cancer. Your genes exist to consume, but fulfill no real goals.
> Your genes exist to consume, but fulfill no real goals.
Can you give me an example of what you would consider a “real goal”?
Can you give me an example of what you would consider a “real goal”?
I hope you managed to claw out of that pit. Either way, hang in there!
I've had both experiences. I had very difficult home circumstances, and I "overcame" them at a challenging boarding school. Then I "couldn't handle" them in a challenging Ivy League environment, where I felt isolated and developed depression.
I have a few takeaways from these experiences:
1. The difference for me between "succeeding in spite of" and "failing because of" was in a few areas. One, good help being available if I sought it out. Two, being able to find a few niches - academically or in extra-curriculars -- where I could excel and feel mastery. And three, having involved, concerned adults around who cared -- even if they weren't "yours" (not your family, not teachers in your major -- they're still there and they still care).
2. Other peoples' judgments about whether you are "succeeding" or "failing" are, in fact, part of the problem. That's why I put those terms in quotes. Sometimes leaving a bad situation to take care of yourself is success. Sometimes forcing yourself to look good on paper but ignoring your insides is failure. Who knows what's really going on with other people? Not me.
3. Good health care, especially good mental health care, especially good mental health care that looks at the whole body -- these are extremely important.
4. Focusing on resilience is important, but it's only half the story. The truth is, most kids who experience hardships are affected by them, often quite seriously. It's better that we as a society figure out how to reduce poverty and misery to help most kids, rather than figure out how to help a few more kids be the exception to the rule.
We need to get back more to a group mentality, rather than an individualistic rising-from-the-trash-fire mentality.
I have a few takeaways from these experiences:
1. The difference for me between "succeeding in spite of" and "failing because of" was in a few areas. One, good help being available if I sought it out. Two, being able to find a few niches - academically or in extra-curriculars -- where I could excel and feel mastery. And three, having involved, concerned adults around who cared -- even if they weren't "yours" (not your family, not teachers in your major -- they're still there and they still care).
2. Other peoples' judgments about whether you are "succeeding" or "failing" are, in fact, part of the problem. That's why I put those terms in quotes. Sometimes leaving a bad situation to take care of yourself is success. Sometimes forcing yourself to look good on paper but ignoring your insides is failure. Who knows what's really going on with other people? Not me.
3. Good health care, especially good mental health care, especially good mental health care that looks at the whole body -- these are extremely important.
4. Focusing on resilience is important, but it's only half the story. The truth is, most kids who experience hardships are affected by them, often quite seriously. It's better that we as a society figure out how to reduce poverty and misery to help most kids, rather than figure out how to help a few more kids be the exception to the rule.
We need to get back more to a group mentality, rather than an individualistic rising-from-the-trash-fire mentality.
I think it's very easy to forget that the same thing can both create advantages and handicaps. Take being an outsider in a field.
Being an outsider in a field can be a huge advantage sometimes. You know things other people in the field don't, you aren't bound by the same prejudices and preconceptions as the insiders, and you'll try things no one else would consider because of your radically different starting point. It can be a huge advantage, setting you apart from the crowd and letting you succeed where others fail.
But you'll also make mistakes no one else in the field does, suffer from and for gross misunderstandings of the simplest things everyone else takes for granted (and never be corrected of them, because no one could even conceive you would not know such a basic thing), and waste huge amount of times and money and effort going down dead-end rabbit holes everyone else would discard out of hand.
At the end of the day, most outsiders in a field will fail - hard and fast - because of the handicaps, but every once in a while an outsider will come along and revolutionize a field, because they are an outsider.
(Or at least, that is the cultural myth ;-)
Being an outsider in a field can be a huge advantage sometimes. You know things other people in the field don't, you aren't bound by the same prejudices and preconceptions as the insiders, and you'll try things no one else would consider because of your radically different starting point. It can be a huge advantage, setting you apart from the crowd and letting you succeed where others fail.
But you'll also make mistakes no one else in the field does, suffer from and for gross misunderstandings of the simplest things everyone else takes for granted (and never be corrected of them, because no one could even conceive you would not know such a basic thing), and waste huge amount of times and money and effort going down dead-end rabbit holes everyone else would discard out of hand.
At the end of the day, most outsiders in a field will fail - hard and fast - because of the handicaps, but every once in a while an outsider will come along and revolutionize a field, because they are an outsider.
(Or at least, that is the cultural myth ;-)
Good points and well put.
The people/environment around the person going through the trauma makes a big difference to outcomes imho. And usually it "takes a village". Because though most people who care will want to help, they each bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. It's a magic combo of the different strengths that make a diff. And realising that and raising group consiouness about it I agree is badly needed these days.
The people/environment around the person going through the trauma makes a big difference to outcomes imho. And usually it "takes a village". Because though most people who care will want to help, they each bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. It's a magic combo of the different strengths that make a diff. And realising that and raising group consiouness about it I agree is badly needed these days.
For me, resilience is about having security. As someone who grew up with all of the “poverty, abuse, absent parents, alcoholism, serious illness or some other misfortune” traits, my ability to succeed was directly related to my ability to find a “gang” of others of similar circumstance and trusting them for shared security. It also helped to live in the 80s and 90s when it was easier to “fly under the radar” from external threats like police, government, hostile groups, etc.
The pain of early trauma never goes away. But, I would never be able to cope with that pain if I didn’t have the ability to reach out to people I trust for support.
The pain of early trauma never goes away. But, I would never be able to cope with that pain if I didn’t have the ability to reach out to people I trust for support.
I’ve spent a bit of my life thinking about this as I come from a bit of an odd circumstance as my parents purposely raised me poor (despite having wealth), didn’t offer much support and made me struggle thinking it would make me very resilient. They very much believe that anything that doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.
The biggest problem with childhood adversity is that you are risking your health. My physical health started to fail and I’ve been unable to work for the last few years. I wasn’t born with the strongest constitution, but I do think my upbringing is a large contributor to my health problems.
I have friends who grew up in wealthy supportive environments, they are doing absolutely fine but the article is right in that they don’t have the drive or sacrifice to accomplish huge things. They are also by and large, very healthy. On the other hand, with my immigrant friends (many of whom are very successful), even though most are healthy there is a way higher percentage of health problems.
Another problem that I have is that I have some poor people impulses and habits, like issues with instant gratification. I did get some benefits in that I am amazingly resourceful and have great problem solving skills. I have the resilience to navigate awful bureaucracies and deal with everyday problems which has been helpful in my attempts to restore my health. I do know a lot of normal people would’ve given up by now.
The biggest problem with childhood adversity is that you are risking your health. My physical health started to fail and I’ve been unable to work for the last few years. I wasn’t born with the strongest constitution, but I do think my upbringing is a large contributor to my health problems.
I have friends who grew up in wealthy supportive environments, they are doing absolutely fine but the article is right in that they don’t have the drive or sacrifice to accomplish huge things. They are also by and large, very healthy. On the other hand, with my immigrant friends (many of whom are very successful), even though most are healthy there is a way higher percentage of health problems.
Another problem that I have is that I have some poor people impulses and habits, like issues with instant gratification. I did get some benefits in that I am amazingly resourceful and have great problem solving skills. I have the resilience to navigate awful bureaucracies and deal with everyday problems which has been helpful in my attempts to restore my health. I do know a lot of normal people would’ve given up by now.
The ACES study really backs up what you're talking about. Adults with high ACE scores (Adverse Childhood Experiences) have a much higher rate of multiple diseases than adults with low scores. https://acestoohigh.com/
This link works: http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/the...
Here is a bookmarlet[1] that will allow you to bypass paywalls. What it does is redirect you to FB outgoing page. Since news networks allow Facebook users to see their entire content, you get access to the article.
javascript:window.location.href=decodeURIComponent('https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2Fl.php%3Fu%3D')+encodeURIComponent(window.location.href);
[1] http://bookmarklets.org/what-is-a-bookmarklet/
javascript:window.location.href=decodeURIComponent('https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2Fl.php%3Fu%3D')+encodeURIComponent(window.location.href);
[1] http://bookmarklets.org/what-is-a-bookmarklet/
This is very interesting and useful! Thanks.
Interesting, thanks for the referer :)
Grew up in rural Asia on a small farm. Every morning I have to wake up before the sun goes up to fetch water to take care of the animals.
The animals we had to sell to get basic necessities such as salt, paper, clothing, gas and oil for light and cooking. We ate meat for at most 10 days a year. Always for a special occasion. The rest of the time was mainly potatoes, cabbage, and carrots. Usually diluted into soup.
Coming to America where even poor Americans can enjoy something like a McDonalds burger every single day was unimaginable.
Sadly there are still people right now in these rural impoverished areas growing up like I did. You don't realize it when you are poor and haven't experienced anything else.
One of the most amazing experiences was flying in a plane for the first time in my life.
-From my father who managed to obtain a PHD after fighting through hell created by Communism
The animals we had to sell to get basic necessities such as salt, paper, clothing, gas and oil for light and cooking. We ate meat for at most 10 days a year. Always for a special occasion. The rest of the time was mainly potatoes, cabbage, and carrots. Usually diluted into soup.
Coming to America where even poor Americans can enjoy something like a McDonalds burger every single day was unimaginable.
Sadly there are still people right now in these rural impoverished areas growing up like I did. You don't realize it when you are poor and haven't experienced anything else.
One of the most amazing experiences was flying in a plane for the first time in my life.
-From my father who managed to obtain a PHD after fighting through hell created by Communism
Most cultures have some variant of "shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations". People not socialized to earn it, don't.
I grew up dead broke. It's in the very core of my being that I have to succeed. There's no home to swim to.
I grew up dead broke. It's in the very core of my being that I have to succeed. There's no home to swim to.
If you let your circumstances swamp you and you end up being a victim you don't have the fight to change it. If you have that internal spark to drive you out of the situation then that drive always stays with you and you keep on riding it. Many people don't and continue in the quagmire.
Drifting along as a peaceful and well brought up youth can often continue so you don't have that drive and determination deep rooted in you.
Drifting along as a peaceful and well brought up youth can often continue so you don't have that drive and determination deep rooted in you.
I had a somewhat difficult childhood and by about 12 was plotting a way to get the fuck out of my neighborhood. Self taught programmer/business guy who did well. Wife is far smarter and better educated but not interested in making money. She came from a good family and reckons my drive came from the background.
An more interesting thing to me is why resilience is so overlooked nowadays. We "design" young people to shatter like a glass when bad things happen.
The resilience is talked about every other week. And we also have tons of data about people who had difficult childhoods or kind of struggle when young and did not came out winners in the end. Or did became winners battling life long depression, alcoholism and personal problems. Or became winners in winners in way you would not want your kids to win. [x] Article itself mentions it in "Social scientists have shown that these risks are real" sentence. Real, indeed. Abusive alcoholic parent may force you to problem solve, but a kid raised by alcoholic parent is also more likely to end up alcoholic too.
There is also interesting question on whether you would rather raise kid for the hall of fame or whether you would rather raise kid for what you think is good for that kid. The two goals are not always the same.
Current society does not exactly have surge of poor kids raising through the ranks and rich kids struggling. It is other way round, poor kids tend to remain poor whole their lives and rich kids tend to remain rich. There is enough of data on that nowdays.
When you look at past generations and look at details, you see a lot of problems in them too. Plenty of them had real problems - be it violence, alcoholism, drug abuse or other self harming ways to deal with problems. We tend to look at past people through rose colored glasses, but they were real people, not always best of best.
[x] Hitler was homeless at one point. Lenins brother was executed. World would be better if those two did not became resilient and capable in way they did became.
There is also interesting question on whether you would rather raise kid for the hall of fame or whether you would rather raise kid for what you think is good for that kid. The two goals are not always the same.
Current society does not exactly have surge of poor kids raising through the ranks and rich kids struggling. It is other way round, poor kids tend to remain poor whole their lives and rich kids tend to remain rich. There is enough of data on that nowdays.
When you look at past generations and look at details, you see a lot of problems in them too. Plenty of them had real problems - be it violence, alcoholism, drug abuse or other self harming ways to deal with problems. We tend to look at past people through rose colored glasses, but they were real people, not always best of best.
[x] Hitler was homeless at one point. Lenins brother was executed. World would be better if those two did not became resilient and capable in way they did became.
It's IMO a sign of things being good nowadays. I mean you're not saying everyone should have a tough childhood, right? Everyone that did is doing stuff to make sure their children / the next generation doesn't have to go through what they had to.
Do you have evidence that things have changed?
I suspect that if you took random samples of young people from several generations and followed them throughout life, the rate of success and failure relative to their peers would be the same across generations.
I suspect that if you took random samples of young people from several generations and followed them throughout life, the rate of success and failure relative to their peers would be the same across generations.
Most people can manage frustration correctly. But some outliers, instead...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th...
I wonder how this would look in a chart.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/charts-and-maps
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th...
I wonder how this would look in a chart.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/charts-and-maps
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1138/
Also, there's a lot of terrible ways to manage stress without going postal (or some variant thereof) and there's plenty of things other than stress that can lead people to going postal.
Also, there's a lot of terrible ways to manage stress without going postal (or some variant thereof) and there's plenty of things other than stress that can lead people to going postal.
Xkcb is always a good distraction, but not.
What is interesting is not that there aren't mass murderings in the desert or the sea or that more people are shooted where the bulk of the people lives. This is obvious. The interesting part is that there are a lot of mass murderings in USA and a lot of children and young people killed also. (and those are only the first six months of the year).
Was the same trend in 1970 or 1860 after adjusting the diference of population? If not... well, maybe something has changed.
What is interesting is not that there aren't mass murderings in the desert or the sea or that more people are shooted where the bulk of the people lives. This is obvious. The interesting part is that there are a lot of mass murderings in USA and a lot of children and young people killed also. (and those are only the first six months of the year).
Was the same trend in 1970 or 1860 after adjusting the diference of population? If not... well, maybe something has changed.
Are we talking about murder in general or just the tiny fraction of it made up of people snapping and committing semi-random violence?
The things that cause of typical murders and the things that cause mass shootings are very, very, very different as are the options for solving those problems. Trying to consider them as related is not productive unless the goal is to create confusion in order to push an agenda that is not supported by facts and statistical evidence we have.
Most murder is basically a symptom of illegal drug trafficking (either directly or indirectly) and the problem is made worse and harder to solve by a bunch of systemic issues (racism, incompetent government, etc.).
Mass murder (the real kind where people commit senseless violence, not the kind where it's just multiple normal murders at one time that people use to inflate the numbers) is basically a publicity problem[0]. Once a few people start doing it and everyone becomes aware of it the people who were on the fence figure why not. Same goes for suicides, riots and a lot of other things.
[0] https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-...
The things that cause of typical murders and the things that cause mass shootings are very, very, very different as are the options for solving those problems. Trying to consider them as related is not productive unless the goal is to create confusion in order to push an agenda that is not supported by facts and statistical evidence we have.
Most murder is basically a symptom of illegal drug trafficking (either directly or indirectly) and the problem is made worse and harder to solve by a bunch of systemic issues (racism, incompetent government, etc.).
Mass murder (the real kind where people commit senseless violence, not the kind where it's just multiple normal murders at one time that people use to inflate the numbers) is basically a publicity problem[0]. Once a few people start doing it and everyone becomes aware of it the people who were on the fence figure why not. Same goes for suicides, riots and a lot of other things.
[0] https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-...
Aren't most murders familly members and friends? That is how I recall it.
1860 was highly violent. It was a year before civil war and they were already killing each other - see bleeding Kansass for most notorious civilian violence. They were also killing/injuring each others in duels (in south).
The society was overall more violent with a lot of violent rhetorics everywhere around.
The society was overall more violent with a lot of violent rhetorics everywhere around.
Where is that actually being done?
What does glass look like when it shatters?
I credit any of my "success" to the struggles I had as a child. Our world isn't perfect, and some of us experience different & harsher aspects of its flaws. I think the earlier some experience these flaws, the more they learn to adapt and realize truths of human nature. We learn that many things aren't going to be handed to us and to get what we want we will have to work a bit harder, or struggle a bit more (In the military we called this "Embrace the Suck").
We learn that our families aren't the same we see on our favorite TV shows. It hurts & its sad for young children to experience a struggle, but I think they can ultimately strengthen them -- unless the difficulties are so severe, or misguiding, that they lead children down the wrong path of life (i.e. severe psychology disorders, crime).
Again though, the world/nature is a tough place, and its nice to want to enforce being easier on and conceal realities from children, but I think there is something of value in experiencing "realness"/struggle -- a simple & less-harsh example is the losing team getting no trophy.
We learn that our families aren't the same we see on our favorite TV shows. It hurts & its sad for young children to experience a struggle, but I think they can ultimately strengthen them -- unless the difficulties are so severe, or misguiding, that they lead children down the wrong path of life (i.e. severe psychology disorders, crime).
Again though, the world/nature is a tough place, and its nice to want to enforce being easier on and conceal realities from children, but I think there is something of value in experiencing "realness"/struggle -- a simple & less-harsh example is the losing team getting no trophy.
I was deeply depressed and anxiety strikken during my entire adolescence. After dropping out of university at 20 I got diagnosed with ADHD and Bipolar. While sometimes I wish I'd had a normal life with parents that taught we good life lessons, in hindsight I feel like I've learnt even more fundamental lessons and have experienced some "truths" that I would not have experienced otherwise.
I consider most of that stuff to be trash. I think, according to common sense, bad things happening to you is actually bad (for a variety of reasons). Many people who make it out of difficult situations end up with minds and belief systems so twisted that they borderline can't function in human relationships (e.g. a relative who would borderline abuse his children by screaming at them until they were crying and cowering over minor infractions because he believes you choose how you react to external circumstances and his dad pulled a gun on him so this obviously isn't even a big deal and the kid needs to stop overreacting and just try harder)
I had a pretty rough childhood. I've always been a bit different (something that I'm now proud of). Not sure if it's spectrum or something else; it doesn't really matter in this context.
I was bullied to the point of physiological symptoms - by everyone except my family. This carried on well into high school (I finally broke free when we moved to a different country). My "friends," at least the closest I had to that idea, all abandoned me in the most demeaning way possible. A teacher picked on me, telling me that I would amount to nothing.
I decided that I would never treat any person that way. Everything changed. I was still (and still am) meak about what is done to me - but I stood up for outcasts. Spreading my time across cliques took effort initially, but it became natural. People started seeing me as a leader, even the popular crowd. The students around me became intolerant towards bullying and ostracization (through avoidance though, not action). I work hard to make people feel special, but it does come off way too too strong right now :).
I'm still broken in many ways, but I am aware of them and work on them. Thanks to the abandonment I experienced, if I feel as though I am being abandoned or betrayed I have an extended panic attack: becoming distrustful and pitiful as it subsides. I'm told I'm attractive, but my mental image is still a 15y/o kid being told "I don't know why anyone would kiss him" by my crush/bully (Stockholm Syndrome much? :)).
It all came down to a choice, spread acceptance, and I've often wondered if explaining that choice would amount to anything. That choice was made more than half my life ago and it is so critical to my being that I couldn't be swayed any other way. If I had chosen to isolate myself, that would have worked perfectly for avoiding those situations - it would have become a reliable and trustworthy solution. Even if I wanted to change that, after being convinced to, it would be habit.
The only real advice I can offer is to teach your children acceptance. They even have to accept the bullies. They have to understand why bullies do what they do. They can be guided to the choice to not repeat what was done to them. I have no idea how to approach an adult with advice: I strongly believe that an adult needs therapy (CBT or somesuch) after a difficult childhood. You just can't let go of nature that has worked for at least a decade based on advice.
I would err against resilience: that is inaction. Becoming the opposite of what tortures you is action.
I was bullied to the point of physiological symptoms - by everyone except my family. This carried on well into high school (I finally broke free when we moved to a different country). My "friends," at least the closest I had to that idea, all abandoned me in the most demeaning way possible. A teacher picked on me, telling me that I would amount to nothing.
I decided that I would never treat any person that way. Everything changed. I was still (and still am) meak about what is done to me - but I stood up for outcasts. Spreading my time across cliques took effort initially, but it became natural. People started seeing me as a leader, even the popular crowd. The students around me became intolerant towards bullying and ostracization (through avoidance though, not action). I work hard to make people feel special, but it does come off way too too strong right now :).
I'm still broken in many ways, but I am aware of them and work on them. Thanks to the abandonment I experienced, if I feel as though I am being abandoned or betrayed I have an extended panic attack: becoming distrustful and pitiful as it subsides. I'm told I'm attractive, but my mental image is still a 15y/o kid being told "I don't know why anyone would kiss him" by my crush/bully (Stockholm Syndrome much? :)).
It all came down to a choice, spread acceptance, and I've often wondered if explaining that choice would amount to anything. That choice was made more than half my life ago and it is so critical to my being that I couldn't be swayed any other way. If I had chosen to isolate myself, that would have worked perfectly for avoiding those situations - it would have become a reliable and trustworthy solution. Even if I wanted to change that, after being convinced to, it would be habit.
The only real advice I can offer is to teach your children acceptance. They even have to accept the bullies. They have to understand why bullies do what they do. They can be guided to the choice to not repeat what was done to them. I have no idea how to approach an adult with advice: I strongly believe that an adult needs therapy (CBT or somesuch) after a difficult childhood. You just can't let go of nature that has worked for at least a decade based on advice.
I would err against resilience: that is inaction. Becoming the opposite of what tortures you is action.
This article is disgusting. Really, what a load of harmful garbage. At risk of overreacting or ignoring the experiences of other people who have experienced hardships such as abuse, mental illness, and others, I want to say that the authors of this article fundamentally misunderstand what they are talking about.
I was severely physically and emotionally abused throughout my childhood and have suffered bipolar 2 disorder my whole life. I am only in my early twenties, but I might be lucky enough to be considered one of those who became "successful" after experiencing such hardships as the article fetishizes: I am attending a good college, earning a good degree, developing experience in a high-demand field, and well on my way to becoming materially successful. By all measures, I am doing very well compared to my peers. In this, I think I am in the minority of people who have gone through similar experiences. I think the majority of people who have experienced these things end up either addicted to drugs, developing alcoholism, living with severe depression, or committing suicide or struggling with self-harm. I don't think there is any difference in the personality or resilience of these people and myself which led down paths different than mine. I think it's just luck.
I don't think I am a winner. This kind of trauma, especially trauma in your formative years, changes you whether you want it to or not. In order to survive, I learned very specific behaviors as a child, such as deescalation and avoidance of conflict, lying effectively about what I've done and how I feel, telling people what they want to hear, and pushing down and ignoring my feelings. I think everyone who goes through experiences like this learns skills that help them in the short term. If you are very lucky, I think (at best) you can learn not to automatically revert back to these behaviors as an adult most of the time. The people who can learn let go of those behaviors well enough might be the lucky ones, but I think they are rare. Don't get me wrong here: I don't think my fate is sealed. I know how to work on unlearning deceptive and destructive behaviors. I always do my best to work with what I have (I learned to do that as a kid, too), but realistically speaking, I will probably never have (for example) a trusting relationship with a woman or ever trust myself enough to raise children (I'm irrationally worried that I would abuse them and become just like my parents).
In a strange way, perhaps some things I learned in order to survive helped me after the abuse, but by and large they were terrible for me. When I was a teenager, I made it my one goal in life not to kill myself. Anything else I accomplished was just extra credit. When I fail in a big way, it's not a big deal for me because I've always had low expectations for my life. I think this might help me instantly rebound from failures and rejection, and end up with opportunities less persistent people might have not gotten. I still force myself to go out there and try my best, because the medication that keeps me functional probably won't keep working forever, so the time I have left is probably significantly limited.
Do you think I'm resilient? Do you think I'm one of the winners?
I was severely physically and emotionally abused throughout my childhood and have suffered bipolar 2 disorder my whole life. I am only in my early twenties, but I might be lucky enough to be considered one of those who became "successful" after experiencing such hardships as the article fetishizes: I am attending a good college, earning a good degree, developing experience in a high-demand field, and well on my way to becoming materially successful. By all measures, I am doing very well compared to my peers. In this, I think I am in the minority of people who have gone through similar experiences. I think the majority of people who have experienced these things end up either addicted to drugs, developing alcoholism, living with severe depression, or committing suicide or struggling with self-harm. I don't think there is any difference in the personality or resilience of these people and myself which led down paths different than mine. I think it's just luck.
I don't think I am a winner. This kind of trauma, especially trauma in your formative years, changes you whether you want it to or not. In order to survive, I learned very specific behaviors as a child, such as deescalation and avoidance of conflict, lying effectively about what I've done and how I feel, telling people what they want to hear, and pushing down and ignoring my feelings. I think everyone who goes through experiences like this learns skills that help them in the short term. If you are very lucky, I think (at best) you can learn not to automatically revert back to these behaviors as an adult most of the time. The people who can learn let go of those behaviors well enough might be the lucky ones, but I think they are rare. Don't get me wrong here: I don't think my fate is sealed. I know how to work on unlearning deceptive and destructive behaviors. I always do my best to work with what I have (I learned to do that as a kid, too), but realistically speaking, I will probably never have (for example) a trusting relationship with a woman or ever trust myself enough to raise children (I'm irrationally worried that I would abuse them and become just like my parents).
In a strange way, perhaps some things I learned in order to survive helped me after the abuse, but by and large they were terrible for me. When I was a teenager, I made it my one goal in life not to kill myself. Anything else I accomplished was just extra credit. When I fail in a big way, it's not a big deal for me because I've always had low expectations for my life. I think this might help me instantly rebound from failures and rejection, and end up with opportunities less persistent people might have not gotten. I still force myself to go out there and try my best, because the medication that keeps me functional probably won't keep working forever, so the time I have left is probably significantly limited.
Do you think I'm resilient? Do you think I'm one of the winners?
This the same thought that came to my mind as well. We can all romanticize the tough rural life but in my experience it act as a big obstacle in advancement.
Having a supporting family who you can turn to for advice and who will encourage you , is not a bad thing. Abuse can leave scars that almost never leave you.
So far, yes, you are resilient. You're here today.
I'm somewhere around 20 years older than you, and I feel like I could have written this at numerous times in my life.
I don't really have answers, but I have learned some things about myself and in general that I think are important.
If you have a fear that you may become abusive you should take that fear seriously and be proactive.
Go to therapy now if you can (maybe you already are, I'm just talking). I avoided this for a long time because I had bad, or no, health insurance. I wish I had made the investment in myself early.
Be very careful with alcohol and other substances. Dependence and substance abuse creeps up on you. That quote about day by day nothing seems to change, but looking back everything is different applies to destructive behaviors too.
Deprogramming/unlearning unhealthy coping behaviors is really damn hard and never stops. Things can seem perfect for months and one day you catch yourself taking a step backwards. Don't get too hung up on those steps backwards, two steps forward and one step back is still forward progress.
Almost every day the thought I want to kill myself enters my mind. It's all but lost it's meaning, but I've never completely eradicated the thought. I have no intention of ever doing it, but I find it strange that the thought never goes away.
I never wanted kids either, because I hated every day of my life as a child. But, now I have two. Their mother committed suicide a few years ago and they live with me full time. They are a great motivation and have taught me so much about life I would have never learned without them. It turns out I'm a pretty decent father and have been able to give them love and understanding I never had.
No amount of anger or frustration is going to change the past or fix the future. Acceptance (of self and past experiences) and seeking therapy (group and private) have been to the two biggest positive influences on my life.
I'm not SV successful, but I provide for my family financially and emotionally. I feel resilient because I could have given up before I even tried or after any number of shameful personal failures. I feel like I've won because I have things I never thought possible 20 years ago. A loving family. A pretty decent job that I enjoy. A place to live that I'm not ashamed of.
It's ok to hurt. It's ok to have bad habits. It's ok feel everything you've expressed. I thought I was the only person on Earth with my issues, but it turns out there are many of us.
One thing I didn't realize in my early twenties was just how much life laid ahead of me. It felt over before it started and because of that I wasted most of my twenties and early thirties.
What you went through sucks and you didn't deserve it. It won't always be fun. You may wake up at 40 with some of the same emotions you have now.
That's just from my personal experience. I'm not a doctor of any kind. I don't even pretend to have any answers. I often think if I knew then what I know now how different life might have been, but maybe that is impossible. Or maybe something I said will help someone. I wish you the best of luck.
I'm somewhere around 20 years older than you, and I feel like I could have written this at numerous times in my life.
I don't really have answers, but I have learned some things about myself and in general that I think are important.
If you have a fear that you may become abusive you should take that fear seriously and be proactive.
Go to therapy now if you can (maybe you already are, I'm just talking). I avoided this for a long time because I had bad, or no, health insurance. I wish I had made the investment in myself early.
Be very careful with alcohol and other substances. Dependence and substance abuse creeps up on you. That quote about day by day nothing seems to change, but looking back everything is different applies to destructive behaviors too.
Deprogramming/unlearning unhealthy coping behaviors is really damn hard and never stops. Things can seem perfect for months and one day you catch yourself taking a step backwards. Don't get too hung up on those steps backwards, two steps forward and one step back is still forward progress.
Almost every day the thought I want to kill myself enters my mind. It's all but lost it's meaning, but I've never completely eradicated the thought. I have no intention of ever doing it, but I find it strange that the thought never goes away.
I never wanted kids either, because I hated every day of my life as a child. But, now I have two. Their mother committed suicide a few years ago and they live with me full time. They are a great motivation and have taught me so much about life I would have never learned without them. It turns out I'm a pretty decent father and have been able to give them love and understanding I never had.
No amount of anger or frustration is going to change the past or fix the future. Acceptance (of self and past experiences) and seeking therapy (group and private) have been to the two biggest positive influences on my life.
I'm not SV successful, but I provide for my family financially and emotionally. I feel resilient because I could have given up before I even tried or after any number of shameful personal failures. I feel like I've won because I have things I never thought possible 20 years ago. A loving family. A pretty decent job that I enjoy. A place to live that I'm not ashamed of.
It's ok to hurt. It's ok to have bad habits. It's ok feel everything you've expressed. I thought I was the only person on Earth with my issues, but it turns out there are many of us.
One thing I didn't realize in my early twenties was just how much life laid ahead of me. It felt over before it started and because of that I wasted most of my twenties and early thirties.
What you went through sucks and you didn't deserve it. It won't always be fun. You may wake up at 40 with some of the same emotions you have now.
That's just from my personal experience. I'm not a doctor of any kind. I don't even pretend to have any answers. I often think if I knew then what I know now how different life might have been, but maybe that is impossible. Or maybe something I said will help someone. I wish you the best of luck.
There's a good saying:
"Time heals all things...but you might not live that long..."
"Time heals all things...but you might not live that long..."
Lessons from adults who overcame difficult adulthoods: the word is "resilience".
While the parent post isn't phrased very helpfully, it raises a valid issue: beyond outcomes and people's retrospective explanations of those outcomes (which are, generally speaking, notoriously unreliable bases for forming useful theory), what are we actually talking about when we talk about "resilience"? What occurs differently such that one person develops this pattern and another doesn't? This essay sort of stumbles around these question, but ultimately falls back on describing resilience in terms that are more mythic than scientific. Admonishments like "own the fighter within" are what I expect from oily self-help hucksters, not credentialed psychologists writing in major publications.
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Why post articles from wsj, it doesn't show the full story.
If there's a workaround, it's ok. Users often post workarounds in the threads, e.g. see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17371963.
More here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
More here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
Click the tiny link below the title on that says 'web' which searches it in google. Then click the link you see in google, this usually lets you read the article (most of the time).
We moved to town and my siblings were born in town. To this day me and my older brother, the village kids have always been more independent. During the time I was in school my parents didn't glance at my homework. Later on when my younger brother who is 11 years younger than I am was in school my mother had "learnt" that good mothers help their kids with homework. To this day my little brother cannot do anything on his own without help (accept poetic license for the sake of being brief).
I read somewhere though, I think one of those decade long Harvard studies that having chores when young was the biggest factor in how successful people became. I presume poor kids have to play a bigger role, hence have more chores in ensuring that household is fed and clothed.