Microsoft Launches React Native for Windows(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Microsoft Launches React Native for Windows
https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/06/microsoft-launches-react-native-for-windows/
98 comments
I find it amusing you claim docker on mac was frustrating when it's damn near useless on Windows. File change notifications still don't work right (as of about a month ago).
Edit: I'd love to use Windows as my daily BTW, it's just not there yet for me. I don't want to have to jump through hoops to make my current workflow, work.
Edit: I'd love to use Windows as my daily BTW, it's just not there yet for me. I don't want to have to jump through hoops to make my current workflow, work.
With the new WSL2, you can run Docker natively!
How is performance? I used Windows subsystem for Linux a year or so ago. Using a package manager to pull down some dependencies, which should take on the order of tens of seconds took several minutes to complete. It was painfully slow.
WSL2 now uses VM technology, so the performance is now a lot better.
Wow, that's a welcomed change for me. I was trying every 3-4 months to get WSL working as a suitable development environment. There was always _something_. Excited to try this out again when I have a free day on a weekend.
WSL performance problems were mostly due to slow I/O.
How does virtualization fix that?
How does virtualization fix that?
Translating syscalls to the NT kernel is slower than running Linux with a virtual filesystem.
WSL in beta was significantly faster than that. Not sure what was wrong with your install or if it was something else (apt-get has always been crazy fast for me).
Looking forward to trying it out. I hope this means nodemon, etc will work as expected without having to enable 'legacy mode'
> File change notifications still don't work right
WSL doesn't support the inotify api so even basic tools like tail don't work.
WSL doesn't support the inotify api so even basic tools like tail don't work.
Actually, I believe inotify was added back in 2016 (https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/wsl-adds-inotify-...)
It's still an issue in 2019: https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues/3292
In ubuntu you have to pass the --disable-inotify flag and the Debian version (without this flag) simply doesn't work.
In ubuntu you have to pass the --disable-inotify flag and the Debian version (without this flag) simply doesn't work.
Not the person you're replying to but I believe docker just hasn't added support. There's been a few issues regarding it open for a long time with no movement at all.
> I also like that they make their products available on other platforms. I know that if I switch back to MacOS my OneNote, word docs, and C# code can be brought over without issue. The same equivalents for macOS don’t provide any cross platform equivalents.
This is what essentially kept me off from adopting Apple's walled garden or Google's web only systems (except for Google Photos and YouTube). I've had devices from either of these firms but I always restrain myself from investing into their platforms because one day I'll find something better but they'll hold my data as a ransom. Google will let me "export" the data, but in that form it is almost useless to me.
I also game a lot, so no other platform comes even close and now Windows has shipping support for:
- Mixed Reality / VR
- Raytracing (not just a tech demo)
which no other platform at the moment does.
This is what essentially kept me off from adopting Apple's walled garden or Google's web only systems (except for Google Photos and YouTube). I've had devices from either of these firms but I always restrain myself from investing into their platforms because one day I'll find something better but they'll hold my data as a ransom. Google will let me "export" the data, but in that form it is almost useless to me.
I also game a lot, so no other platform comes even close and now Windows has shipping support for:
- Mixed Reality / VR
- Raytracing (not just a tech demo)
which no other platform at the moment does.
You’d be surprised how easily you can export pretty much all your Apple-app data using AppleScript on a Mac. There’s almost nothing inaccessible via apps’ APIs
But can he run iMessage on Windows?
Sure, he might be able to export his data but what use is that??
Sure, he might be able to export his data but what use is that??
You can't, this is why I run Windows 10 in a VM.
I keep all my personal stuff like email, messaging, browsing on Mac where privacy is higher and easier to maintain.
I do all my dev on Windows for the most part, along with my corporate Outlook account (which I use in a tab in Chrome, not even installed on Win10), that's basically how I do things.
This also allows me to make snapshots of Win10 whenever I'm considering installing something that might f-up my machine (aka test out some alpha release of dotnet core etc).
I keep all my personal stuff like email, messaging, browsing on Mac where privacy is higher and easier to maintain.
I do all my dev on Windows for the most part, along with my corporate Outlook account (which I use in a tab in Chrome, not even installed on Win10), that's basically how I do things.
This also allows me to make snapshots of Win10 whenever I'm considering installing something that might f-up my machine (aka test out some alpha release of dotnet core etc).
This year's macOS update is expected to include a framework which makes it easy to port iOS apps. That will likely be exciting for developers, because there are _a lot_ more iOS developers than Mac developers.
The Mac is already a unix, so a lot of the things you list aren't necessarily things that Mac developers are clamoring for. WSL was a big deal because it brought the unix-like ecosystem to Windows, but Macs already had the ability to natively run a lot of unix utilities.
The Mac is already a unix, so a lot of the things you list aren't necessarily things that Mac developers are clamoring for. WSL was a big deal because it brought the unix-like ecosystem to Windows, but Macs already had the ability to natively run a lot of unix utilities.
I still appreciate the WSL approach quite a bit more. I use them as “containers” (though to be clear they don’t support running Linux containers) If I need to test that my C++ project will compile and run on Debian, Ubuntu, and Arch, it is pretty trivial to do that using WSL.
I also avoid the issue of the differences between macOS unix tools like grep, where there are certain flags that differ from those on linux as I recall. This is of course resolved with using a port, but they’re still community maintained ports and under no guarantee to work the same on macOS and Linux.
I also avoid the issue of the differences between macOS unix tools like grep, where there are certain flags that differ from those on linux as I recall. This is of course resolved with using a port, but they’re still community maintained ports and under no guarantee to work the same on macOS and Linux.
> though to be clear they don’t support running Linux containers
I think this needs a 'yet', since supposedly it'll be changing with WSL 2 later this year.
I think this needs a 'yet', since supposedly it'll be changing with WSL 2 later this year.
That seems quite risky. There are important differences between WSL and the real Linux kernel, and running on either is not adequate testing for the other.
"iOS developers who want to sell their product on the Mac App Store" is a rather small subset of developers. I suppose it's nice that they're getting a bit of extra dividend on their existing iOS efforts, but that's pretty much it. Marzipan does nothing for the Mac.
Notably left out from Apple's current direction are existing Mac developers and web developers, whom Apple has been taking for granted for years.
Notably left out from Apple's current direction are existing Mac developers and web developers, whom Apple has been taking for granted for years.
One application domain with a largish number of iOS apps is electronic music.
The latency (sample buffer size to prevent drop-out due to preemption) on Android is too high, so mobile music production gravitated to iOS. E.g. - the latency on a $160 iPhone SE is still about half that of a $700 Pixel 2 phone.
The latency (sample buffer size to prevent drop-out due to preemption) on Android is too high, so mobile music production gravitated to iOS. E.g. - the latency on a $160 iPhone SE is still about half that of a $700 Pixel 2 phone.
>iOS developers who want to sell their product on the Mac App Store" is a rather small subset of developers
You'd be surprised. There's absolutely no reason to be a "small subset" if it makes men easy money for quick recompile + some small GUI adaptation.
You'd be surprised. There's absolutely no reason to be a "small subset" if it makes men easy money for quick recompile + some small GUI adaptation.
People with iOS apps on the App Store are a small subset of developers. That's the reality now. Marzipan isn't going to grow that number.
>People with iOS apps on the App Store are a small subset of developers. That's the reality now. Marzipan isn't going to grow that number.
Of course it is. In fact, that's the main purpose behind its development.
Of course it is. In fact, that's the main purpose behind its development.
You think someone who wouldn’t previously have developed an UIKit app is now going to do it because of Marzipan? What’s the incentive?
No, I think people who have developed a UIKit app are going to port them to OS X because of Marzipan.
The incentive is easy port easy reach of a new, even if smaller, potential market.
To make the idea even clearer, if "porting iOS to OSX with Marzipan" was just a true/false toggle on XCode, almost everybody would toggle it and sell their iOS apps on the Mac App Store -- since it would take no time to do it, and it will reach a few dozens of millions on untapped potential customers (desktop mac users).
Well, it's the same situation, but now with Marzipan instead of trivially easy, like with the imaginary XCode toggle, porting an iOS app will be just "much easier" as opposed to "considerable effort" that it was before.
Also, I understood your comment "People with iOS apps on the App Store are a small subset of developers. That's the reality now." as meaning, "people with iOS on the MAC App Store are a small subset of developers" -- and responded to that.
If you meant: "People with iOS apps on the _iOS_ App Store are a small subset of developers" then that's crazy talk. They are hundreds of thousands of people making iOS apps -- and 1.5 or more million such apps.
The incentive is easy port easy reach of a new, even if smaller, potential market.
To make the idea even clearer, if "porting iOS to OSX with Marzipan" was just a true/false toggle on XCode, almost everybody would toggle it and sell their iOS apps on the Mac App Store -- since it would take no time to do it, and it will reach a few dozens of millions on untapped potential customers (desktop mac users).
Well, it's the same situation, but now with Marzipan instead of trivially easy, like with the imaginary XCode toggle, porting an iOS app will be just "much easier" as opposed to "considerable effort" that it was before.
Also, I understood your comment "People with iOS apps on the App Store are a small subset of developers. That's the reality now." as meaning, "people with iOS on the MAC App Store are a small subset of developers" -- and responded to that.
If you meant: "People with iOS apps on the _iOS_ App Store are a small subset of developers" then that's crazy talk. They are hundreds of thousands of people making iOS apps -- and 1.5 or more million such apps.
You’re seriously underestimating the support overhead of having a Mac app. There’s way more hardware and software configurations than on iOS. The equation may not play out to make maintaining those Marzipan ports appealing for many.
The amount of UIKit developers is smaller than the amount of publishers. A lot of apps are made in bulk with web wrappers or template engines.
Let’s say there’s 200k UIKit developers in the world. That’s still clearly less than 10% of professional and hobbyist software developers.
The amount of UIKit developers is smaller than the amount of publishers. A lot of apps are made in bulk with web wrappers or template engines.
Let’s say there’s 200k UIKit developers in the world. That’s still clearly less than 10% of professional and hobbyist software developers.
>You’re seriously underestimating the support overhead of having a Mac app.
There doesn't have to be any "support overhead". You can simply offer the app as is, as tons of developers do. At worst, throw a "FAQ/common issues" page and leave it at that.
I have tons of apps, and very successful ones (judging from their publicity/store placement), that offer absolutely no support.
>Let’s say there’s 200k UIKit developers in the world. That’s still clearly less than 10% of professional and hobbyist software developers.
It's still clearly way more than needed to have a huge market. Heck, 5% of pro and hobbyists developers would still be enormously huge.
There doesn't have to be any "support overhead". You can simply offer the app as is, as tons of developers do. At worst, throw a "FAQ/common issues" page and leave it at that.
I have tons of apps, and very successful ones (judging from their publicity/store placement), that offer absolutely no support.
>Let’s say there’s 200k UIKit developers in the world. That’s still clearly less than 10% of professional and hobbyist software developers.
It's still clearly way more than needed to have a huge market. Heck, 5% of pro and hobbyists developers would still be enormously huge.
Well, seeing that all of the games that will be part of Apple’s games subscriptions will also be on the Mac and some iOS developers have already said they wanted to have a port ready “day one”....
Microsoft have been very good at figuring out which features they need to add for developers, but the actual experience of using Windows is not great.
Part of the problem is that they are adding stuff without taking anything away. My Windows development machine manages to be both overstuffed with multiple shells, run-times etc., and have quirks or issues with almost everything that I care about. I just want a Bash shell, Python, SSH and a package manager that all work.
Part of the problem is that they are adding stuff without taking anything away. My Windows development machine manages to be both overstuffed with multiple shells, run-times etc., and have quirks or issues with almost everything that I care about. I just want a Bash shell, Python, SSH and a package manager that all work.
Of course they are, their PR department reads HN and others now.
> I’m still holding out for tabbed windows in the file explorer, though :/
Give Directory Opus a go https://www.gpsoft.com.au/
Friends don't let friends use Explorer.
Give Directory Opus a go https://www.gpsoft.com.au/
Friends don't let friends use Explorer.
>> I’m still holding out for tabbed windows in the file explorer
Try these:
Total Commander: https://www.ghisler.com/ fman: https://fman.io/
Try these:
Total Commander: https://www.ghisler.com/ fman: https://fman.io/
Or xyplorer, or xplorer² or any number of other explorer replacements.
The 'tabbed windows on explorer' thing is well done, and I dunno, MS has always seemed less willing to copy a 3rd party app and kill its market than Apple are. That's one of the reasons why the 'better terminal' surprised me, conhost is very long in the tooth, but again plenty of 3rd party options.
The 'tabbed windows on explorer' thing is well done, and I dunno, MS has always seemed less willing to copy a 3rd party app and kill its market than Apple are. That's one of the reasons why the 'better terminal' surprised me, conhost is very long in the tooth, but again plenty of 3rd party options.
fman author here, thanks for the mention! Unfortunately, fman does not yet support tabs. It's pretty awesome otherwise though ;)
The million dollar question: Will Microsoft's developer tools draw in more business? (In my mind, the play is, if Microsoft is more friendly to developers, and developers sometimes hold the keys to what vendors to work with, new business could come in).
For example: I use VSCode, but I'm not sure I'd pay for Azure. In prior threads on HN, I recall reading some displeasure without service outages and availability issues.
Unless Microsoft had some other motive for caring about developer tools after a long period of not doing so. Regardless, their contributions to the open source community are welcome.
For example: I use VSCode, but I'm not sure I'd pay for Azure. In prior threads on HN, I recall reading some displeasure without service outages and availability issues.
Unless Microsoft had some other motive for caring about developer tools after a long period of not doing so. Regardless, their contributions to the open source community are welcome.
What do you mean by not caring about dev tools for a long period? Their tools were always industry-leading. It's what brought platform dominance to them in the first place. One might even hear a faint chant from the past: developers, developers, developers!
Did you ever try developing a web application and using IE's Developer Tools to inspect? Chrome gave them a run of their money.
Web applications are only development there is? Also, Chrome is on Windows too.
No, but it's an example of where, in the past, Microsoft didn't take the lead on developer tooling.
Visual Basic vs. Delphi for RAD/GUI programming comes to mind as well.
Maybe in some categories but when I think of Visual Studio for C++, MS didn't really try until a few years ago.
Vs has been the best c++ ide for a while. the debug is way better
snowAbstraction may be thinking about VS’s infamously poor relationship with the C++ standard.
* I think before 2015 some things were working better or faster in other IDEs.
* I am happy with with the big improvements in VS starting around 2015. But the fact, that the C++ support was so bad in earlier versions (even if it was better in some ways than other IDEs) that it makes me upset that people had to put up with inferior older versions for over decade.
* It was not my original point but yes MS does not follow the standard very well, at least before. I even found a compiler bug myself back in VS2015 (the last version I used before moving linux server dev.)
* I am happy with with the big improvements in VS starting around 2015. But the fact, that the C++ support was so bad in earlier versions (even if it was better in some ways than other IDEs) that it makes me upset that people had to put up with inferior older versions for over decade.
* It was not my original point but yes MS does not follow the standard very well, at least before. I even found a compiler bug myself back in VS2015 (the last version I used before moving linux server dev.)
Any chance you've looked at scoop over Chocolatey? I depended heavily on Choco but scoop doesn't require Admin shell/UAC, and has a good selection of my favorite stuff (extras bucket is a must).
Scoop is much better than Chocolatey IMO, definitely recommend.
And Windows will soon come with a tabbed terminal! Finally! Looking to get the Surface Book 3 at the end of the year and dropping my 2017 Macbook whose keyboard I replaced 3 times.
Same. A year or two ago when I needed a MBP replacement after a decade of OS X, I jumped to a Surface Book 2 and haven't looked back.
Satya's Microsoft is almost doing everything right.
Satya's Microsoft is almost doing everything right.
> I’m still holding out for tabbed windows in the file explorer, though :/
I've you're willing to look at 3rd party software, I've been a happy user of Directory Opus for many years.
I've you're willing to look at 3rd party software, I've been a happy user of Directory Opus for many years.
>When was the last time macOS had an update that was exciting for developers?
Swing 5 just a few months ago?
Swing 5 just a few months ago?
I think it's wrong/confusing to say that they're "launching" React Native for Windows. React Native for Windows is out already, and it works fine. They're just announcing the kickoff of a C++ rewrite.
https://github.com/Microsoft/react-native-windows/blob/maste...
> In this sub-folder, we are working on a vnext rewrite of React Native for Windows10 built in C++ that reuses the C++ core bridge implementation from Facebook’s React Native. This will allow React Native for Windows10 to innovate and provide features by sharing the same core as Facebook’s React Native.
Cool, but this is basically just an implementation detail.
(I do wish it supported Windows 7 and 8.)
https://github.com/Microsoft/react-native-windows/blob/maste...
> In this sub-folder, we are working on a vnext rewrite of React Native for Windows10 built in C++ that reuses the C++ core bridge implementation from Facebook’s React Native. This will allow React Native for Windows10 to innovate and provide features by sharing the same core as Facebook’s React Native.
Cool, but this is basically just an implementation detail.
(I do wish it supported Windows 7 and 8.)
Yeah, I think you're right. A lot of people have even shipped applications using React Native for Windows and it's been around for years. The article, in the way it's written, makes it sound like they just opened it up today which is wrong.
The C++ rewrite is exciting but yeah, it's more of an implementation detail. I wonder if Microsoft words the announcement better (only saw the one from Tech Crunch).
The C++ rewrite is exciting but yeah, it's more of an implementation detail. I wonder if Microsoft words the announcement better (only saw the one from Tech Crunch).
I think it won't be long before Microsoft returns to the smartphone market with an OS based on Windows, and this time it won't be a flop.
The rumor for a long time was that the Windows Phone brand was dead but that they might want a "Surface Phone" possibly with x86 emulation, which could double as a PC in your pocket. They just tested the water with ARM-based Windows laptops that have x86 emulation.
Surface Phone is certainly not a bare rumour. Prototype PCBs and unleaded parts of the device been spotted around Shenzhen for around a year now.
Moreover, Microsoft itself been said to go around different prototyping shops here.
Lakefield was once said to be a codename for Surface Phone, but now been discovered to be a codename for Intel CPU purpose made for it.
Moreover, Microsoft itself been said to go around different prototyping shops here.
Lakefield was once said to be a codename for Surface Phone, but now been discovered to be a codename for Intel CPU purpose made for it.
unlabeled
But they already have some windows version running on ARM right? I can't check right now but Microsoft offers something that runs on Raspberry Pi if I remember correctly.
Yeah Windows IOT (previously Windows Embedded I think) runs on ARM.
Build 2019 gives us so many exciting news today.
This year I switched my developer machine from Macbook to Thinkpad and so far it has been wonderful.
This year I switched my developer machine from Macbook to Thinkpad and so far it has been wonderful.
There has already been ReactXP from Microsoft to make apps for web, iOS, Android, and Windows: https://microsoft.github.io/reactxp/
I find it interesting that most threads on HN lately about Windows always seems to have quite a few comments in the form "I switched from Mac to Windows, loving it!" I know no place is immune from shilling, but it does raise a particular brow.
Conspiracies aside, and probably more interestingly, I am not convinced that "this is the new Microsoft" or that Satya Nadella is some visionary CEO because while everyone has been seemingly lulled to sleep here on "the new Microsoft" on HN lately, guess what accounted for an ever growing portion of Microsoft's business last quarter? Microsoft's data mining business! Horray! So while we are out here with our pitchforks on the Google's and Facebooks of the world collecting our data and selling it, Microsoft has quietly turned around and ramped up their version of these practices seemingly unscathed.
Remember, Microsoft is still under scrutiny for continuing to collect your data on Windows and other products even after you have opted out. From my perspective, choosing to run Windows is still choosing to run a spy machine for Microsoft.
Maybe I am wrong, but Microsoft still doesn't deserve our trust, not even in the slightest.
Conspiracies aside, and probably more interestingly, I am not convinced that "this is the new Microsoft" or that Satya Nadella is some visionary CEO because while everyone has been seemingly lulled to sleep here on "the new Microsoft" on HN lately, guess what accounted for an ever growing portion of Microsoft's business last quarter? Microsoft's data mining business! Horray! So while we are out here with our pitchforks on the Google's and Facebooks of the world collecting our data and selling it, Microsoft has quietly turned around and ramped up their version of these practices seemingly unscathed.
Remember, Microsoft is still under scrutiny for continuing to collect your data on Windows and other products even after you have opted out. From my perspective, choosing to run Windows is still choosing to run a spy machine for Microsoft.
Maybe I am wrong, but Microsoft still doesn't deserve our trust, not even in the slightest.
What in the world are you talking about? They have 3 business units they report earnings for. Which one is the “data mining business”?
If you need help sourcing this assertion, here’s their quarterly SEC 10-k filing. I look forward to understanding the basis of your accusation.
https://microsoft.gcs-web.com/static-files/fb546cc4-2cbe-41c...
If you need help sourcing this assertion, here’s their quarterly SEC 10-k filing. I look forward to understanding the basis of your accusation.
https://microsoft.gcs-web.com/static-files/fb546cc4-2cbe-41c...
I am well aware a public company's earnings report is public https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/earnings/FY-2019-Q3... (btw -- Tell me where in Facebook's earnings reports we should have looked to learn what they were doing with CA?)
Microsoft Dynamics is their ad tech solution for companies that wish to mine data about their customers. You want to tell me you are that naive to think they aren't dogfooding this internally to at least some extent? Windows 10 basically turns your PC into a spy machine for Microsoft. Now they have LinkedIn, which has well documented gross-levels of data collection on it's users, and GitHub which has a gold mine of data voluntarily given to it daily, and to some extent VSCode, although AFAIK, turning off the telemetry in VSCode really does turn it off (should still use Pi-hole to filter, just in case). You really think they aren't feeding that data into their DP and packing up this data and selling it off to the highest bidder, including governments, just like Facebook got caught doing? If so, I got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
Microsoft Dynamics is their ad tech solution for companies that wish to mine data about their customers. You want to tell me you are that naive to think they aren't dogfooding this internally to at least some extent? Windows 10 basically turns your PC into a spy machine for Microsoft. Now they have LinkedIn, which has well documented gross-levels of data collection on it's users, and GitHub which has a gold mine of data voluntarily given to it daily, and to some extent VSCode, although AFAIK, turning off the telemetry in VSCode really does turn it off (should still use Pi-hole to filter, just in case). You really think they aren't feeding that data into their DP and packing up this data and selling it off to the highest bidder, including governments, just like Facebook got caught doing? If so, I got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
I know no place is immune from shilling, but it does raise a particular brow.
Calling commenters shills is explicitly against HN policy.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html:
Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried, email us and we'll look at the data.
Give it a rest or try Slashdot. You’ll definitely get a +5 Informative.
Calling commenters shills is explicitly against HN policy.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html:
Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried, email us and we'll look at the data.
Give it a rest or try Slashdot. You’ll definitely get a +5 Informative.
If you interpreted that statement as me specifically saying that commenter is a shill, you should probably take a rest from social media as well, and take a step back to realize the negative lens you are viewing things through.
If you interpreted that statement as me specifically saying that commenter is a shill
I don’t understand. Which commenter are you referring to? You weren’t replying to anyone. In so doing you implicated anyone saying something along the lines of "I switched from Mac to Windows, loving it!" as being a possible shill.
you should probably take a rest from social media as well, and take a step back to realize the negative lens you are viewing things through.
I don’t understand how that follows from anything.
Accusing people of being shills is against the policies of this website.
End of story.
I don’t understand. Which commenter are you referring to? You weren’t replying to anyone. In so doing you implicated anyone saying something along the lines of "I switched from Mac to Windows, loving it!" as being a possible shill.
you should probably take a rest from social media as well, and take a step back to realize the negative lens you are viewing things through.
I don’t understand how that follows from anything.
Accusing people of being shills is against the policies of this website.
End of story.
I wouldn’t say it was “shilling”, but the geek community has thought that their opinion matters to the general consumer electronics market more than it has at least since the infamous era of the “less space than Nomad. No Wireless. Lame.” Slashdot era.
got a source?
I completely agree. Most of the HN readers are too young to remember MS's bad practices.
How many employees from Microsoft in the 90s are still there now, calling the shots?
Microsoft is a company like any other, and like any other company we should keep an eye on what they're doing.
But too often the people who "remember Microsoft's bad practices" are completely unwilling to reevaluate the company based on what they're actually doing _now_, instead preferring to cling to illogical biases based on an old grudge.
Microsoft is a company like any other, and like any other company we should keep an eye on what they're doing.
But too often the people who "remember Microsoft's bad practices" are completely unwilling to reevaluate the company based on what they're actually doing _now_, instead preferring to cling to illogical biases based on an old grudge.
How many of the National Security Letters are still in place?
How many PRISM-like APIs are there?
How many PRISM-like APIs are there?
Maybe that is ok?
As a long-time React dev, I booted Windows and started looking thru the "vnext" setup. But then took another look and saw this:
System Requirements: Visual Studio 2017
Oh. Well, sorry but I'm not going to drop my current IDE (i.e install and run a branch new IDE rather than my everyday tool I've customized greatly).
System Requirements: Visual Studio 2017
Oh. Well, sorry but I'm not going to drop my current IDE (i.e install and run a branch new IDE rather than my everyday tool I've customized greatly).
What would be the arguments for/against using this instead of, say, Qt?
"Learn once, write everywhere". Can't speak about performance comparison vs using Qt/.NET/whatever but the whole idea about React Native is that today, you can write a native app for iOS, tvOS, Android, web, macOS, Windows, and a few others, all using the same language and framework. You still have to understand platform specifics like UX guidelines but you use the same technology to build a fully customizable, and fully performant, native experience. It's sort of like using C++ but way more developer friendly.
The cons:
- an extra layer of abstraction
- need to write a plugin if you want to surface a native functionality to RN if it's not yet supported
- no visual UI editor like in native tools (Qt/VS), although you generally won't need it with React Native's code-first and instant refresh development workflow
- you need to be comfortable with React Native / JavaScript, obviously :-)
The cons:
- an extra layer of abstraction
- need to write a plugin if you want to surface a native functionality to RN if it's not yet supported
- no visual UI editor like in native tools (Qt/VS), although you generally won't need it with React Native's code-first and instant refresh development workflow
- you need to be comfortable with React Native / JavaScript, obviously :-)
It's not gonna run everywhere, for the same reason WPF doesn't run everywhere. Given that the apps written with this will bind to Windows using C++, and there is no abstraction in between (like Qt), it's not gonna be portable. As far as I understand, it is going to be a reimplementation of React Native where the apps might have a similar style, but the backend will be completely Windows specific. And nothing will stop a developer from using native Windows APIs, so they will.
> The "current" subdirectory adds support for an earlier React Native for Windows10 implemented from scratch in C#. It reimplemented the JS<->Native bridge in C#, and shared the JS with Facebook's implementation of React Native. The ongoing direction of React Native involves a closer interaction between C++ and JS which is hard to achieve with a separate C# implementation.
Given that they say that the "old" version "shared the JS" in past tense, that seems to hint that the "new" version will not share the JS? In that case, what is left of React? It sounds like it will be the same style of API and workflow, but different widgets and no cross-platform compatibility.
Source: https://github.com/Microsoft/react-native-windows/blob/maste...
> The "current" subdirectory adds support for an earlier React Native for Windows10 implemented from scratch in C#. It reimplemented the JS<->Native bridge in C#, and shared the JS with Facebook's implementation of React Native. The ongoing direction of React Native involves a closer interaction between C++ and JS which is hard to achieve with a separate C# implementation.
Given that they say that the "old" version "shared the JS" in past tense, that seems to hint that the "new" version will not share the JS? In that case, what is left of React? It sounds like it will be the same style of API and workflow, but different widgets and no cross-platform compatibility.
Source: https://github.com/Microsoft/react-native-windows/blob/maste...
He said "Learn once, write everywhere" not "Write once, run everywhere"
You can also write a native app for Android/iOS/tvOS/Windows/macOS/Linux and a few others, all using the same language and framework - C++ and Qt - see: https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/supported-platforms.html
It's impossible to use native widgets with Qt. React Native for Windows will make it possible to write applications in the React style (PropTypes and automatic propagation of updates), but using native Windows widgets.
While Qt emulates something like WinForms quite well, I don't think it emulates WPF widgets at all, which I speculate this wraps.
Given that WPF is the primary GUI toolkit on Windows, the only reason to accept Qt, is if you're making something like a WinForms application that you need to run on all platforms.
Sounds like it will bring React apps a lot closer to their Windows underpinnings:
> Sometimes an app needs access to a platform API that React Native doesn't have a corresponding module for yet. Maybe you want to reuse some existing .NET code without having to reimplement it in JavaScript, or write some high performance, multi-threaded code for image processing, a database, or any number of advanced extensions.
> React Native was designed such that it is possible for you to write real native code and have access to the full power of the platform. This is a more advanced feature and we don't expect it to be part of the usual development process, however it is essential that it exists. If React Native doesn't support a native feature that you need, you should be able to build it yourself.
Source: https://github.com/microsoft/react-native-windows/blob/maste...
While Qt emulates something like WinForms quite well, I don't think it emulates WPF widgets at all, which I speculate this wraps.
Given that WPF is the primary GUI toolkit on Windows, the only reason to accept Qt, is if you're making something like a WinForms application that you need to run on all platforms.
Sounds like it will bring React apps a lot closer to their Windows underpinnings:
> Sometimes an app needs access to a platform API that React Native doesn't have a corresponding module for yet. Maybe you want to reuse some existing .NET code without having to reimplement it in JavaScript, or write some high performance, multi-threaded code for image processing, a database, or any number of advanced extensions.
> React Native was designed such that it is possible for you to write real native code and have access to the full power of the platform. This is a more advanced feature and we don't expect it to be part of the usual development process, however it is essential that it exists. If React Native doesn't support a native feature that you need, you should be able to build it yourself.
Source: https://github.com/microsoft/react-native-windows/blob/maste...
The new version wraps WinUI/UWP widgets not WPF
All right. Still Windows specific though. Could WinUI/UWP become available on e.g. Linux, or is inherently bound to Windows?
Qt's licensing for commercial products is something like $500/month/developer. For a small team of 6 developers, that's $36k in licensing a year. Unfortunately, you're not allowed to take existing Qt code and "port" it over to the commercial license -- you're required to start from scratch IIRC.
You can use the open source version of Qt with LGPL for commercial products.
Does QT use the latest C++ standards? Or do you have to adhere to old conventions?
Qt itself puts lots of effort on compatible APIs. Therefore they don't fully push "modern" APIs. However internally they use a lot of modern C++ and enable many modern things in different small steps. For a C++14/17 purist it will still be "ugly", though.
This smells like an EEE, but I welcome it, they just want to snatch React from FB.
What is EEE? And what do you mean by "snatch React"? Facebook owns React, it's not really snatchable.
"Embrace, Extend, Extinguish", Microsoft's 1990s playbook for eliminating competition by creating a proprietary fork of some open system/standard, then locking the industry into the Microsoft version of the product.
When was the last time macOS had an update that was exciting for developers? They’re phasing out OpenGL, and there is no CUDA support for Mojave. Docker support was pretty frustrating the last time I tried it as well. No big features in the last few macOS releases. All the latest features increase lock-in and don’t exist outside of the mac ecosystem (looking at you Handoff and iMessage)
Microsoft now has:
- VS code
- A new terminal announced today (a very welcome change)
- Ability to natively run any linux distro, with GUI! (WSL w/ X11 server)
- Hyper-V powered docker containers (and they’re fast)
- Great CUDA support
- One click to install and run Ubuntu desktop in Hyper-V
- Chocolatey has grown on me and is an effective brew replacement.
Overall, i’m very satisfied with the development experience on Windows, and the pace at which it is improving makes me very confident that it will continue to attract more devs.
I also like that they make their products available on other platforms. I know that if I switch back to MacOS my OneNote, word docs, and C# code can be brought over without issue. The same equivalents for macOS don’t provide any cross platform equivalents.
I’m still holding out for tabbed windows in the file explorer, though :/