Bird One Scooter – Pre-Order(shop.bird.co)
shop.bird.co
Bird One Scooter – Pre-Order
https://shop.bird.co/pdp.html
186 comments
3. If you leave it parked outside a place, people will assume it's part of the shared fleet or "force ride" it without unlocking while it beeps the whole way.
Or if you leave it parked outside, people can rent it and you make money... :)
Ala Tesla auto driving fleet
Ala Tesla auto driving fleet
And then never get it back...?
These are just asking to get "stolen".
Exactly. I came to the thread to also point these things out.. Where is it's point of difference from a Segway Ninebot ES-2 or even ES-4 which is significantly cheaper? Weird.
I own a Xiaomi Mi m365 scooter that I use daily for commutes around downtown Denver and while it's lighter than this bird, it is by no means lightweight. It won't fit under a desk. It attracts funny looks if I bring it into a business or restaurant, and locking it up on the street is annoying and time-consuming. Even when it's folded and locked up, people try to steal it.
The Bird One marketing document doesn't really go into detail, but the huge battery and GPS functionality suggests to me that the expected approach for using these scooters is to park them on the street and leave them there. If they borrow the anti-theft functionality that you see in VanMoof bicycles, this scooter makes a lot of sense. You ride it around town. You charge it in your garage. You leave it on the street when you're done with it. If it's stolen you look up its GPS location and the police help you get it back. There's low urgency to charge it. If it breaks, they'll fix it for you. And if you don't have it with you, Bird comps your rental scooter.
That's a lot more compelling of an offering than just a "heavier, faster, longer-range" scooter.
The Bird One marketing document doesn't really go into detail, but the huge battery and GPS functionality suggests to me that the expected approach for using these scooters is to park them on the street and leave them there. If they borrow the anti-theft functionality that you see in VanMoof bicycles, this scooter makes a lot of sense. You ride it around town. You charge it in your garage. You leave it on the street when you're done with it. If it's stolen you look up its GPS location and the police help you get it back. There's low urgency to charge it. If it breaks, they'll fix it for you. And if you don't have it with you, Bird comps your rental scooter.
That's a lot more compelling of an offering than just a "heavier, faster, longer-range" scooter.
>If it's stolen you look up its GPS location and the police help you get it back.
Do your police do that?
Do your police do that?
Or to make theft as unappealing as possible, do an “Apple” on them, and require proximity of a “recognized” device for them to turn on, and require a long password, unique to each scooter, to reset the pairing.
They’ll still get stolen, but after apple implemented its current “find my iPhone” scheme, thefts of those devices has plummeted compared to what it was before.
They’ll still get stolen, but after apple implemented its current “find my iPhone” scheme, thefts of those devices has plummeted compared to what it was before.
Even if they do, who has a day to waste chasing thieves? I'd just lock up the scooter and save myself the potential hassle, especially since the GPS isn't a deterrent (the scooter doesn't look obviously theft-resistant so thieves won't notice until after they've stolen it).
They do in a lot of cases in Aus.
Not in Adelaide they don't. Never in 25 years of living there have I ever heard a case of the police recovering stolen property. Heard several cases of people find it themselves and recovering it on their own, but not once of the police helping.
My own personal experience was that they noted my report, duly filed some paperwork in their write-only document storage system, and then went back to issuing traffic fines.
My own personal experience was that they noted my report, duly filed some paperwork in their write-only document storage system, and then went back to issuing traffic fines.
Even if they recover your property later, like during a big arrest, you won't get it back. It will sit in evidence, for years, then it will be destroyed because nobody picked it up. Chances are, you were never informed; even if you filed police reports with serial numbers.
I want to know the answer to to this. Must be a nice place to live.
In the Netherlands the police definitely will not. Vanmoof has their own team to track down bikes and retrieve, but so far this seems more like a marketing stunt than actual service (they have a youtube channel “Van Moof Bike Hunters”).
1200 dollars - I wouldnt just park this on the street, given the battery and other useful things that might be mistaken for a ride share offering.
I think one of the issue with people from silicon valley trying to make consumer products is the fact that it will always be too expensive for people outside of silicon valley.
When you live there you have a huge salary and the feeling that 1k is nothing, so selling a scooter for 1k is nothing, reality is that SV is a world of its own. That's complex product management issue in my opinion
When you live there you have a huge salary and the feeling that 1k is nothing, so selling a scooter for 1k is nothing, reality is that SV is a world of its own. That's complex product management issue in my opinion
True ..
I got a boosted board when I moved to San Francisco.
Well, reason number one is that the public transportation system is a joke in this city compared to the European cities I am used to.
The price still felt steep but I can afford an 1k skateboard with a tech salary. Especially if I can recoup part of its cost by avoiding lyft rides.
I got a boosted board when I moved to San Francisco.
Well, reason number one is that the public transportation system is a joke in this city compared to the European cities I am used to.
The price still felt steep but I can afford an 1k skateboard with a tech salary. Especially if I can recoup part of its cost by avoiding lyft rides.
I've long contemplated a boosted board, but am hesitant to spend $1k on a skateboard that I can't use when it rains.
That's a valid concern.
I live 25 minutes from work by foot, 10 by boosted.
When it rains, I just don't bother using my boosted, I go for a nice walk instead.
It is possible to use it when it rains but :
- most important point : your adherence will be way worse. With slick wheels, the board slides a lot when it rains. Your braking distance becomes way too long.
- you also get your pants and shoes wet. Not as important as point one of course, but still annoying.
I live in SF so I don't expect to see any rain in the next 6 months.
I live 25 minutes from work by foot, 10 by boosted.
When it rains, I just don't bother using my boosted, I go for a nice walk instead.
It is possible to use it when it rains but :
- most important point : your adherence will be way worse. With slick wheels, the board slides a lot when it rains. Your braking distance becomes way too long.
- you also get your pants and shoes wet. Not as important as point one of course, but still annoying.
I live in SF so I don't expect to see any rain in the next 6 months.
> I live in SF so I don't expect to see any rain in the next 6 months.
Really? My perception of SF was that they get frequent rain is generally one of the wetter places in California
Really? My perception of SF was that they get frequent rain is generally one of the wetter places in California
I don't know the city and its weather very well yet (I have been there for less than 2 years).
My perception is that the weather of the past few years has been widely out of what is expected in all the places I have resided in.
Last year SF has been very dry
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/10/01/approaching-fro...
one article on the topic .. 159 consecutive days (or maybe more) without rain.
Which was great for skating :)
The weather was not that hot either .. mostly between 13 and 21 °C.
My perception is that the weather of the past few years has been widely out of what is expected in all the places I have resided in.
Last year SF has been very dry
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/10/01/approaching-fro...
one article on the topic .. 159 consecutive days (or maybe more) without rain.
Which was great for skating :)
The weather was not that hot either .. mostly between 13 and 21 °C.
I live in Miami so I have rain (heavy rain) 4 months of the year.
I am in the same boat .. I searched long and hard for an electric scooter or a skateboard that I could use in my regular commute (Vienna, Austria) and after trying everything I could get my feet on, I settled on an electric moped (UNU), which is just about the best possible transportation system I've experienced - apart from feeling underpowered compared to combustion engines.
I get amazing transportation for pennies (its very cheap to recharge the batteries), its fast enough once you get into the city, and it'll survive a bit of rain here and there.
Alas, until the skateboard/scooters catch up with the nearly-all-weather requirement, I don't see mopeds being replaced in this market any time soon.
I get amazing transportation for pennies (its very cheap to recharge the batteries), its fast enough once you get into the city, and it'll survive a bit of rain here and there.
Alas, until the skateboard/scooters catch up with the nearly-all-weather requirement, I don't see mopeds being replaced in this market any time soon.
for what it is worth, I think that a moped is probably safer than an e-skate.
I love riding one, but you need to stay extremely vigilant and even though, hardware failures, bad roads or cars can still spell trouble.
I love riding one, but you need to stay extremely vigilant and even though, hardware failures, bad roads or cars can still spell trouble.
Or in a city that snows. Obviously you won’t ride it when it snows, but the cognitive effort of watching out for a pothole that will eat your wheel(s) is incredibly high.
I've tried a lot of electric boards and I will say the boosted board is a better board than all the rest. If they spent more developing it and sell it for more, who cares.
They got the controller design and the acceleration and deceleration curves right. You can accelerate with your thumb and the motion or grip of your hand doesn't affect your acceleration. The acceleration and deceleration are gradual and dampened, so you won't pitch yourself off the board when you accelerate or slow. You have brakes. You can even slow, stop and then go backwards. It's a safer board.
And anyway, the price is coming down.
(ok, off my soapbox)
They got the controller design and the acceleration and deceleration curves right. You can accelerate with your thumb and the motion or grip of your hand doesn't affect your acceleration. The acceleration and deceleration are gradual and dampened, so you won't pitch yourself off the board when you accelerate or slow. You have brakes. You can even slow, stop and then go backwards. It's a safer board.
And anyway, the price is coming down.
(ok, off my soapbox)
Note that Bird is a Los Angeles company, but the point still stands.
$1299??? Apart from the GPS and "Free Rides Package" and "Bird Service Center", what's the value added? I could just get a Segway Ninebot ES4 for less than $800?
The Bird Service center would be actually extremely useful. I bought a Xiaomi M365 (which is what Bird initially used) and dealing with tire punctures is really difficult. The first time I changed the tube, it took me a week to finish it. The bolts on the holding wheel are extremely tight from the factory and tire is such a tight fit too, I broke and bent multiple tire levers trying to get it on. I tried bringing it a couple local bike shops, but none of them would look at it.
There's your problem right there... Why make a scooter with tyres instead of solid rubber with suspension? That's what Segway did with the Ninebot, and their scooters are great. So confused right now.. Tyres are meant for the low end/cheap scooters, not the high end stuff.
> Tyres are meant for the low end/cheap scooters
Or anyone who has to ride over seamed concrete (sidewalks) and wants their knees to still work.
Scooters don't have great shock absorption, so all that energy is going in to your joints. Over time you'll develop issues.
Or anyone who has to ride over seamed concrete (sidewalks) and wants their knees to still work.
Scooters don't have great shock absorption, so all that energy is going in to your joints. Over time you'll develop issues.
Funnily enough, both m365 and Ninebot model you are referring to, are made by the same company.
I've heard this statement a lot, but does anyone have a source? First I heard they were manufactured by Ninebot, then I heard that they were just designed by Ninebot. The build quality is actually quite different between the different brands.
I have both models, I discovered it in the manufacturing label and was surprised as well.
Turns out Segway is owned by Ninebot and a large chunk of Ninebot is owned by Xiaomi.
In terms of build quality, both are pretty similar.
Here is the source:
https://www.engadget.com/2015/04/15/segway-ninebot-xiaomi-ac...
Turns out Segway is owned by Ninebot and a large chunk of Ninebot is owned by Xiaomi.
In terms of build quality, both are pretty similar.
Here is the source:
https://www.engadget.com/2015/04/15/segway-ninebot-xiaomi-ac...
"Trust me, the customer service is a great value-add for this shitty product."
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Or a Boosted Board.
I see people riding by on Boosted Boards and sometimes think that I want one. I never think that when I see someone on a scooter. I like to ride the scooter now and then, but I don't want to own one, nor do I want to carry one into my home or office.
I see people riding by on Boosted Boards and sometimes think that I want one. I never think that when I see someone on a scooter. I like to ride the scooter now and then, but I don't want to own one, nor do I want to carry one into my home or office.
I'm absolutely in love with the Onewheel: it may seem gimmicky, but having a massive, air-filled tire means you can go over serious obstacles and off-road (off-sidewalk) very easily.
Having a single wheel also means the wheelbase/turning radius is extremely small - you can turn in-place with enough skill.
Having a single wheel also means the wheelbase/turning radius is extremely small - you can turn in-place with enough skill.
I think I like the Boosted Board because it looks like an ordinary skateboard, and you can use it unpowered mode. https://blog.boostedboards.com/blog/practice-riding/
I have a boosted board and I have been wanting to exchange it for a onewheel.
I am a bit more worried about the OW failure states though :
For example what happens if the battery dies ? since the OW balances itself, I fear it would be worse than a boosted (for which you are already potentially in a tight spot but you might be able to slow down manually) .
For example what happens if the battery dies ? since the OW balances itself, I fear it would be worse than a boosted (for which you are already potentially in a tight spot but you might be able to slow down manually) .
I've ridden the OW to 0% battery: you have plenty of warning before it gets dangerous.
The OW has a feature called "pushback" - when the battery is nearly-depleted or you are going too fast, it will aggressively adjust the angle of the board backwards, forcing you to slow down.
In the event of a low battery, you'll end up traveling at extremely low speed until the back end of the board touches the ground, forcing you to stop.
The OW has a feature called "pushback" - when the battery is nearly-depleted or you are going too fast, it will aggressively adjust the angle of the board backwards, forcing you to slow down.
In the event of a low battery, you'll end up traveling at extremely low speed until the back end of the board touches the ground, forcing you to stop.
oh that's interesting .. I definitely need to try one one of these days.
I ride a unicycle. I wasn't really comfortable with side riding angle of onewheel.
If you're in Palo Alto and want to try one sometime I'd be happy to let you use mine.
I live in Miami but am going to the Bay Area for a week or two at the end of July (lived in Oakland, SF, and Redwood City from mid 2014-early 2018). I'd love to try it while I'm there. I'll send you an email :)
How difficult are they to use if your balance isn't necessarily optimal? I tried to ride a cruising board back in college and.. well, broke my wrist when I fell (shrug).
I have fine balance normally so I've always wanted to try a Boosted because it'd be handy when I go into our SF office or when I do stuff in San Jose.
I have fine balance normally so I've always wanted to try a Boosted because it'd be handy when I go into our SF office or when I do stuff in San Jose.
In my experience learning to ride a regular longboard takes about 10 hours of practice across 5+ sessions. Learning to ride a boosted board to the same level of competence is a half hour endeavor. Really, the hard part of skateboarding is pushing, not standing.
I rode a skateboard (badly) when I was in middleschool so I'm not sure how hard it is for a completely new person. I'm not super athletic, but I find it pretty easy.
The trickiest part of skateboarding is foot breaking and pushing, with the boosted board you really don't have to do either so it's generally a lot easier. I'd guess given a couple hours and a week cruising around a bit you'd be comfortable going pretty fast.
I wear a helmet and sometimes wrist guards depending on how risky I'm feeling. If you're in town and want to try it let me know.
The trickiest part of skateboarding is foot breaking and pushing, with the boosted board you really don't have to do either so it's generally a lot easier. I'd guess given a couple hours and a week cruising around a bit you'd be comfortable going pretty fast.
I wear a helmet and sometimes wrist guards depending on how risky I'm feeling. If you're in town and want to try it let me know.
I have meh balance and I still learned boosted just fine.
You also get a lot better at it with time. Shocks that would have thrown me to the ground 1 year ago are not that scary anymore.
Just find a park or a parking to learn to use it.
You also get a lot better at it with time. Shocks that would have thrown me to the ground 1 year ago are not that scary anymore.
Just find a park or a parking to learn to use it.
Pushing the board accounts for a lot of the opportunities to lose balance. I don't have much experience with a powered board but I think it would be easier for me to keep balance on it.
A scooter's handlebars help but not as much as a bicycle, and I think it lulls you into a false sense of security.
A scooter's handlebars help but not as much as a bicycle, and I think it lulls you into a false sense of security.
Boosted Board range is much lower at up to 14 miles on the top end model ($1,400) compared to 30 on a scooter.
Do you really want to stand on a scooter for 30 miles tho?
yes.
On a boosted, I can go to the other side of my city, but I cannot do the return trip.
I can do the 6 miles to go there (since there are slopes, we are far from the theoretical and inflated max range) Spend several hours .. and I would love to be able to go back on my skateboard afterwards.
On a boosted, I can go to the other side of my city, but I cannot do the return trip.
I can do the 6 miles to go there (since there are slopes, we are far from the theoretical and inflated max range) Spend several hours .. and I would love to be able to go back on my skateboard afterwards.
That's unpalatable for most people, and probably unpalatable for everyone if you consider the wear on your joints. I'm not an expert but I think that even if you feel fine you're probably setting yourself up for osteoarthritis. Running a full marathon on a single day is more dangerous than running two half marathons on different days, and riding that far has gotta be sort of like running a marathon in terms of moving the joints.
interesting point.
My main worry on an eskate is to fall and gravely injure myself. Even if you are extremely skilled, you might still miss a pothole one day or a car might do something very stupid.
As far as wear on my joints .. I dunno .. most of the riding involve no shocks, the only fatigue is to have to stay on a slightly bent position.. your calves are the muscle that fatigue the most during eskating.
My main worry on an eskate is to fall and gravely injure myself. Even if you are extremely skilled, you might still miss a pothole one day or a car might do something very stupid.
As far as wear on my joints .. I dunno .. most of the riding involve no shocks, the only fatigue is to have to stay on a slightly bent position.. your calves are the muscle that fatigue the most during eskating.
There is no proof that long distance running causes osteoarthritis. Please stop spreading that myth.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22632690
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22632690
I’m right there with you. I’ve been running long distances and it only seems to help my knees. However, when training for a full marathon I realized I had to work my way up to that level or my joints would be sore. I don’t think someone who overdoes it on a scooter has a training program to follow.
I’m not spreading that myth by suggesting that people consider choosing a half marathon rather than a full marathon, gradually increase their training level, or avoid something that might have the risks of running without the rewards.
I’m not spreading that myth by suggesting that people consider choosing a half marathon rather than a full marathon, gradually increase their training level, or avoid something that might have the risks of running without the rewards.
If it runs out battery, you can still push a boosted board manually. It's technically true of a scooter but it's impractical and I think the boosted board is lighter.
[deleted]
There are even cheaper options that are just as good.
The xiaomi m365, for example, is one of the most commonly owned electric scooters, (I am pretty sure it used to be the model that Bird based their scooters off of), and you can buy them for ~425$ or so.
The xiaomi m365, for example, is one of the most commonly owned electric scooters, (I am pretty sure it used to be the model that Bird based their scooters off of), and you can buy them for ~425$ or so.
At first glance, I saw $299 on the product page and for a second I thought, "well maybe... just maybe... could come in handy some day...?"
Then I saw your comment... nope.
Then I saw your comment... nope.
I could get an ebike or even an entire motorcycle for that price. Doesn't make any sense.
$800 for a Segway Ninebot ES4??? You could upgrade to a Bird for only $600 more. /s
Of course I wouldn't spend that kind of money for either a scooter or whatever the hell the Ninebot wants to call itself.
Of course I wouldn't spend that kind of money for either a scooter or whatever the hell the Ninebot wants to call itself.
The GoTrax GXL v2 can be had for less than $300, and the only downside compared to the Segway is slightly less range.
This feels like Bird trying to head-off people who might learn they can buy a bird scooter from impound for about $30, and a kit for about $10 to convert them back into normal scooters.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18604049
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18604049
Seems like a desperate attempt by Bird owing to the inherent flaws in the business model. The pricing is wrong, one could really buy good scooters at that price band. What were they smoking?
Better option is to find cities impounding abandoned scooters and auctioning them off. They can be repurposed with a new IC from China.
I've been looking but haven't been able to find any. Has anyone had any luck?
For auctions [0]? Or hardware [1]?
[0] https://www.usa.gov/state-surplus-sales
[1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/Durable-Board-Dashboard-bluetooth-M...
[0] https://www.usa.gov/state-surplus-sales
[1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/Durable-Board-Dashboard-bluetooth-M...
For scooters themselves. None of the auctions I've been to physically or online have had any, in a major Northeast metropolitan area.
[deleted]
I wonder how that works in practice. The scooter looks like a Bird scooter and is branded with Bird logos. If you leave it anywhere, won't people take it and try to ride it?
Yes. My friend has the same Xiaomi Mi scooter that Bird uses, and we're in a busy Bird market. He usually parks it within line of sight and often has to pester riders to quit trying to ride it away. In one case, a Bird charger took it (assuming it was broken) and he had to trace it back via a GPS tracker he installed.
Even though it's very obvious it's not a Bird (no labeling, doesn't have the large box on the handlebars, doesn't show up on Bird's map) people assume its a Bird scooter anyway and start fiddling with the controls.
Now he U-bolts it to bike stands, and now riders leave it alone in confusion.
Even though it's very obvious it's not a Bird (no labeling, doesn't have the large box on the handlebars, doesn't show up on Bird's map) people assume its a Bird scooter anyway and start fiddling with the controls.
Now he U-bolts it to bike stands, and now riders leave it alone in confusion.
They could be physically stolen but not operated.
The problem is that it seems that people (not most, but sizable enough in my city that I used to see it everyday) seem to be okay with vandalizing the scooters. I can only think they’re more ready to do it belongs to a big company rather than someone personally.
Interesting change in their business model. Wasn't the initial goal of on-demand scooter companies to give people the convenience of renting without the hassle of owning?
What's the benefit of buying this from Bird vs any other scooter mfg? Unless, this is some sort of rev share where they can let you rent in their network and make money.
What's the benefit of buying this from Bird vs any other scooter mfg? Unless, this is some sort of rev share where they can let you rent in their network and make money.
$1300? What the fuck! The birds in SF are just the
Xiaomi scooter which costs $450.
https://www.amazon.com/Xiaomi-Electric-Long-range-Fold-n-Car...
I'm sorry but at 1.3K i was expecting a bit more, or maybe i'm just off but that price looks high to me.
That price is high. If you go to Alibaba or Aliexpress you can find the same scooters for $400-500 or if you buy them bulk around $250-$300
[deleted]
For a point of reference I got a really quite decent ebike for $1800. (Disc brakes, rapidfire shifters) Ebikes range in price quite a bit but that seams middle of the road.
Those scooters are fast though, easily going 20 mph. I can’t imagine what the ride is like in our pothole filled streets...
Those scooters are fast though, easily going 20 mph. I can’t imagine what the ride is like in our pothole filled streets...
I'm not sure if it's really too high. Boosted Boards are quite popular and sell at a $1,399 price point. Seems like an equivalent purchase.
Boosted Boards also tend to be a lot higher quality in terms of build, user experience, etc. compared to similar low cost competitors.
This Bird scooter has very little that sets it apart from the low cost crowd.
This Bird scooter has very little that sets it apart from the low cost crowd.
How do you know what the "build, user experience, etc." of this scooter is? And that it's not much higher quality than the competition?
This seems like a rip-off, and a pretty high-risk buy given how new Bird is to hardware...
With a quick Google search, you can find the same Segway scooter that many of the scooter companies (including Bird) have used for around $500, new.
With a quick Google search, you can find the same Segway scooter that many of the scooter companies (including Bird) have used for around $500, new.
You can get a street legal new Honda Ruckus or Yamaha Zuma 50cc for ~2500. 115mpg, no motorcycle license required, 100+ mile range, and no charging. This is a tough purchase price, when you can order direct from amazon or Alibaba for at least 50% lower.
At least where I live (NC) mopeds are hugely looked down upon, as any one riding them is assumed to be a drunk who lost their license due to DUI.
This assumption is not exactly unwarranted.
This assumption is not exactly unwarranted.
So what would people assume about you riding a $1500 scooter on the road instead?
That you were a drunk who lost their license because of a DUI. I'm also from NC, and what the parent commenter said is accurate for any kind of scooter.
To continue with the other NC'ers (there's literally dozens of us!), I used to live in Wilmington, NC, which has a large number of scooters to the point a term I've taken from others is to refer to them as dui-scooters (read "dewey scooters").
I don't know the difference between a $1200 scooter or a dui-scooter. However, the overall opinion is if you aren't in a traditional vehicle or a crazy cyclist, you're riding the vehicle you're riding because you are not legally allowed to drive.
I don't know the difference between a $1200 scooter or a dui-scooter. However, the overall opinion is if you aren't in a traditional vehicle or a crazy cyclist, you're riding the vehicle you're riding because you are not legally allowed to drive.
I don't know if the attitude you're conveying is yours, or the population, but it's really sad. That if you don't drive a car, you're crazy for riding a bike. And if you want the combined environmental and cost benefits of a bike with the speed and lack-of-work of driving, you must be a drunk.
Even if there is a grain of truth in some stereotypes, it is harmful.
Even if there is a grain of truth in some stereotypes, it is harmful.
It's not bikes, it's a moped.
For about the same money you'd spend on one of those scooters you can easily get a used motorcycle that will be far more comfortable and performant, it just requires a valid license.
For about the same money you'd spend on one of those scooters you can easily get a used motorcycle that will be far more comfortable and performant, it just requires a valid license.
Do they stink worse than a bus, leaving an oily trail of smoke?
I can't understand why petrol mopeds are still sold.
I can't understand why petrol mopeds are still sold.
Two strokes have long gone its all auto 4 strokes now.
And a 50cc Moped or Scooter has an insane MPG its why they are used for deliveries.
And a 50cc Moped or Scooter has an insane MPG its why they are used for deliveries.
In the US, those two brands make high quality products that use a 4 stroke motor, so no oil mixing. They are quite popular around college campuses and do not smell.
Do they sound like a bunch of angry bees?
No, they aren't 2-stroke, they're 4-stroke. They sound similar to a little 250cc roadbike - quiet and puttering.
Depends on the muffler system more than the engine. Large 4-stroke engines can be louder than helicopters.
I'm just curious because often the smaller the engine, the noisier it is.
I'm just curious because often the smaller the engine, the noisier it is.
That's the main selling point :)
The Ruckus has a modern four-stroke fuel-injected engine. It shouldn’t smoke or make a stench.
Does it have a catalytic converter?
When I bought my house, I bought electric lawn tools as small engines are pretty terrible polluters. I read an article several years ago, by Car and Driver I think. They took a push mower, a Fiat 500 and F150 Raptor and hooked them up to some emissions testing equipment. 30 minutes of running the mower had higher emissions, other than CO2, then driving the Raptor 3000 miles.
When I bought my house, I bought electric lawn tools as small engines are pretty terrible polluters. I read an article several years ago, by Car and Driver I think. They took a push mower, a Fiat 500 and F150 Raptor and hooked them up to some emissions testing equipment. 30 minutes of running the mower had higher emissions, other than CO2, then driving the Raptor 3000 miles.
The catalytic converter on those cars alone is almost the same cost of the lawn mower. A good chunk of the upper part of the engine bay is filled with EGR components. I doubt you could fit all the modern emissions control equipment into a pushmower.
It says "Free Rides Package" and "Bird Service Center", but there's zero detail on what either of these means. Anyone know? It feels like those might a decent portion of why the price is so high, but can't say.
From https://shop.bird.co/:
“Bird One owners get access to additional rides on our dockless shared network in 100+ cities worldwide—so even if you’re away, you’re never without Bird.” [They mention “20 free rides” but don't say if that's per month, per year, or a one-off with the purchase.]
“Bird Service Centers offer expert vehicle care and added peace of mind.” [No word yet on location or what sort of care is included.]
The Verge has this on the service centers/anti-theft:
“If your scooter breaks down, VanderZanden said you can bring it (or mail it) to one of Bird’s service centers, located in North America and Europe. If the scooter is stolen, Bird’s “bird hunter” network of freelancers may be able to track it down and find it.”
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/8/18535698/bird-one-electric...
“Bird One owners get access to additional rides on our dockless shared network in 100+ cities worldwide—so even if you’re away, you’re never without Bird.” [They mention “20 free rides” but don't say if that's per month, per year, or a one-off with the purchase.]
“Bird Service Centers offer expert vehicle care and added peace of mind.” [No word yet on location or what sort of care is included.]
The Verge has this on the service centers/anti-theft:
“If your scooter breaks down, VanderZanden said you can bring it (or mail it) to one of Bird’s service centers, located in North America and Europe. If the scooter is stolen, Bird’s “bird hunter” network of freelancers may be able to track it down and find it.”
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/8/18535698/bird-one-electric...
Looks like details are TBD, but it's almost certainly going to be something like either discounted rides or X free minutes of riding per month and discounted service if it breaks.
This is too expensive for what I need to commute to work and back. Any other recommendations for electric bikes/scooters/boards?
Before the scooters and e-bikes hit Atlanta, I was very close to purchasing a Van Moof. A friend of mine has one here and says it's one of the best purchases he's made.
https://www.vanmoof.com/en_us/electrified-s2-x2
Then Bird, Lime, Lyft and Jump all appeared. There's always several Jump bikes outside of my place, which negates the need for my own bike.
EDIT: Just realized that this is also probably out of your budget. Going to leave it for anyone else that's interested though.
Then Bird, Lime, Lyft and Jump all appeared. There's always several Jump bikes outside of my place, which negates the need for my own bike.
EDIT: Just realized that this is also probably out of your budget. Going to leave it for anyone else that's interested though.
The option to "subscribe" is enticing! $25 a month is pretty good if using daily.
Segway has a few good offerings on eScooters https://store.segway.com/segway-ninebot-kickscooter-es4
The Micro Merlin is $799: https://www.microkickboard.com/micro-merlin
RAD Power bikes are reasonably priced, but a bit more at $1499 for a RadCity: https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radcity-electric-comm...
RAD Power bikes are reasonably priced, but a bit more at $1499 for a RadCity: https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radcity-electric-comm...
I would attempt convincing this guy to make a product out of his hack.
It would surely be a lot cheaper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhxD5owuN8g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhxD5owuN8g
How about, ya know, a regular bike that you pedal?
I have friends that refuse to bike to work (even short distances) because they don't want to get sweaty.
It's a valid argument if you don't already bike to work, or have a tough commute, or sweat a lot. But if you bike frequently, you sweat less as you become more fit. You can also control your pace. And if your office has a place for you to change (or even shower), then it becomes even more appealing.
Although I disagree with scooting over biking for short distances, I'd imagine a lot of people have this fear of arriving to their office with any sweat.
It's a valid argument if you don't already bike to work, or have a tough commute, or sweat a lot. But if you bike frequently, you sweat less as you become more fit. You can also control your pace. And if your office has a place for you to change (or even shower), then it becomes even more appealing.
Although I disagree with scooting over biking for short distances, I'd imagine a lot of people have this fear of arriving to their office with any sweat.
I don't see how "Uber scale" scooter rental is viable long-term. Interestingly, this appears to show bird acknowledges it at some level.
Unlike cars, the purchase and maintenance cost of scooters is minimal. And you don't need a license or insurance. The only reason to rent one is lack of scooter parking or if you're visiting. Eventually society will catch up and scooter rental will be like bike or car rental. A viable business, but not nearly the scale of rideshare.
You only need to look at how successful Jump bikes are vs scooter rental to see where this is going. I've already seen many people around town that were driven to buy their own scooter after trying out the rentals. It's just one big advertisment for buying your own scooter.
Rental will still exist, but I expect the market to shrink, not grow, in the cities that already have rentals available. The barrier to buying your own is too low to make this a viable SV style business
Unlike cars, the purchase and maintenance cost of scooters is minimal. And you don't need a license or insurance. The only reason to rent one is lack of scooter parking or if you're visiting. Eventually society will catch up and scooter rental will be like bike or car rental. A viable business, but not nearly the scale of rideshare.
You only need to look at how successful Jump bikes are vs scooter rental to see where this is going. I've already seen many people around town that were driven to buy their own scooter after trying out the rentals. It's just one big advertisment for buying your own scooter.
Rental will still exist, but I expect the market to shrink, not grow, in the cities that already have rentals available. The barrier to buying your own is too low to make this a viable SV style business
Everyone is talking about the high price, but they should be talking about the bigger offense — Electric Rose.
We're going to look back at everything "consumer electronics pink" in a few years and cringe. I'm surprised Bird is willing to let their marketing team further complicate their brand for the sake of short term sales.
We're going to look back at everything "consumer electronics pink" in a few years and cringe. I'm surprised Bird is willing to let their marketing team further complicate their brand for the sake of short term sales.
what's wrong with having a pink color option?
It looks bad. Especially after a few months of being abused or the first rainy day. Same problem with the white Birds in their current fleet. There's nothing wrong with pink, but it makes more sense for a Google Home Mini than a mode of transportation. Bird selected pink because it's an "in" color. The product is going to outlive the color trend, which will result in further branding confusion in the future.
See Jump for effective use of color. Take note that they only use one…
See Jump for effective use of color. Take note that they only use one…
pink is not a trendy color... pink has been a fairly common color for as long as people have been making multiple colors of things. it's the "female" color.
white / pink stuff does get dirtier more easily than black. it just requires you to care for your things and keep them clean and don't abuse them.
next you suggest we should make all shoes in a single color?
white / pink stuff does get dirtier more easily than black. it just requires you to care for your things and keep them clean and don't abuse them.
next you suggest we should make all shoes in a single color?
It definitely is trendy – https://www.pantone.com/color-intelligence/color-of-the-year...
There are other reasons, outside of complicating branding, to stick to one color: https://blog.bolt.io/sonos-x-hay-8fb9e96fcc72.
There are other reasons, outside of complicating branding, to stick to one color: https://blog.bolt.io/sonos-x-hay-8fb9e96fcc72.
I think it's partly because of the "Millennial Pink" trend
In case you missed it, see also this very well researched LA Times article from a few days ago:
"Can Bird build a better scooter before it runs out of cash?"
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19835491
"Can Bird build a better scooter before it runs out of cash?"
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19835491
Or if you're a hacker you can buy one at auction for almost nothing.
https://hackaday.com/2018/12/07/liberating-birds-for-a-cheap...
https://hackaday.com/2018/12/07/liberating-birds-for-a-cheap...
There are additional details on the home page of their shop https://shop.bird.co/index.html
The "free ride program" details:
20 FREE RIDES • Up to $5/ride on shared Birds • $100 value
The "free ride program" details:
20 FREE RIDES • Up to $5/ride on shared Birds • $100 value
Boosted is launching a scooter next week too: https://boostedboards.com/coming-soon/scooter/
I honestly fail to see the appeal of this as opposed to say Solowheel Glide 3 for last mile commuters. Doesn't fold, so forget folding it under the seat of the bus/train/etc. What's the point?
Is this a joke ?
Is Bird getting ready for an IPO? Why are they targeting the consumer directly instead of the rents market they are supposed to focus on?
Phase 1 - give scooters away basically for free
Phase 2 - sell same scooters for 1300USD
This is a business strategy that only works with heroin.
This is a business strategy that only works with heroin.
We have Segways all over the campus where I'm at. We used to have Lime and Bird's but the security concerns nixed that.
They missed out by not calling it Birb.
What does "Free Rides Package" mean? Do I need to pay to use my own scooter?
The price is a bit high for my taste, but having an onboard GPS tracker is nice.
Or, you could ride a bike.
Hard to compete with what's out there in the market. Service centers aren't that big of a selling point when you can buy these around $500. I think they're better off raising the price to $2K and adding some "Level 2" autonomy to it.
One more gimmick to try and salvage a dying business.
Are these still made by Ninebot?
*its
"it's" = "it is"
"it's" = "it is"
Here's how I keep this straight mentally.
The rule is, in English, you can make a noun possessive by adding "'s" to the end.
Let me emphasize one part: that's the rule to make A NOUN possessive. "It" is a pronoun, not a noun! The rule doesn't apply any more than it applies to a verb or an adjective.
Hence you don't have stuff like "you's", "he's", "she's", "we's", or "I's", and you also don't have "it's".
The rule is, in English, you can make a noun possessive by adding "'s" to the end.
Let me emphasize one part: that's the rule to make A NOUN possessive. "It" is a pronoun, not a noun! The rule doesn't apply any more than it applies to a verb or an adjective.
Hence you don't have stuff like "you's", "he's", "she's", "we's", or "I's", and you also don't have "it's".
Pretty sure we do actually have he's and she's. "He's being an idiot", or "she's wrong about that."
Those are contractions, not possessives. "He is" and "she is", just like "it's" is always a contraction, never a possessive.
Those are not possessives. They're contractions, like it's.
Yes, but as a contraction of "he is", not as a possessive.
I think you are losing this battle. The apostrophe’s are winning!
For the confused: submitted title was "Bird Offers It's Own Scooter for Pre-order".
> "give your commute a higher purpose with zero carbon emissions."
Can people please stop claiming electric vehicles are zero emissions?
Can people please stop claiming electric vehicles are zero emissions?
Why should they? What sort of emissions do electric vehicles have? I suspect you'll say that generating electricity causes emissions, which is only true in some cases
One of the bigger arguments is also in the production itself can be not very eco-friendly, eg: creating the batteries themselves.
You are exactly right. People have a tendency to discount the production of the non-emission-generating thing in the first place. The energy and emissions required to build something like this is non-trivial.
It should be mandated that if you want to appeal to green-fingered consumers with your marketing, you have to state the emissions deficit from which your product operates and how many years it would take to recover from it with typical usage.
It should be mandated that if you want to appeal to green-fingered consumers with your marketing, you have to state the emissions deficit from which your product operates and how many years it would take to recover from it with typical usage.
Okay, I'll play: what is the "emissions deficit" of a small electric scooter? Even combined with mass transit, surely the power consumed is miniscule compared with driving alone in a car, and the car is many times the initial manufacturing cost in metal parts, motors, even batteries.
I commute in the summer on a Boosted Board, which uses most of the 99Wh battery to go one way (8km). My electricity in Ontario is largely nuclear and hydro, but say it's the worst case scenario and all the power comes from gas— the emissions from consuming 0.1kWh is ~35g CO2:
https://canadianenergyissues.com/ontario-power-stats/
https://www.google.com/search?q=240+tons+%2F+602+MWh+in+g+pe...
This is a far cry from what it would be driving that same distance in my Mazda 5, which would be a little under a litre of fuel (21MPG -> 11.2 L/100km), or 2.3kg of CO2, a 65x difference.
It's possible you're coming from a place of legitimate care, but honestly your comment sounds a lot like concern trolling to me. If there's anything out there which needs an "emissions deficit" sticker to help dissuade conscientious purchasers, lets start with private automobiles.
I commute in the summer on a Boosted Board, which uses most of the 99Wh battery to go one way (8km). My electricity in Ontario is largely nuclear and hydro, but say it's the worst case scenario and all the power comes from gas— the emissions from consuming 0.1kWh is ~35g CO2:
https://canadianenergyissues.com/ontario-power-stats/
https://www.google.com/search?q=240+tons+%2F+602+MWh+in+g+pe...
This is a far cry from what it would be driving that same distance in my Mazda 5, which would be a little under a litre of fuel (21MPG -> 11.2 L/100km), or 2.3kg of CO2, a 65x difference.
It's possible you're coming from a place of legitimate care, but honestly your comment sounds a lot like concern trolling to me. If there's anything out there which needs an "emissions deficit" sticker to help dissuade conscientious purchasers, lets start with private automobiles.
> what is the "emissions deficit" of a small electric scooter?
I'm sure it's unintentional but it's not clear to me what you're asking. So a range of possible answers:
1/ I don't know because they don't tell us what it is.
2/ It's the sum total amount of emissions directly caused by its production divided by the number of units produced. See also: carbon offsetting on planes.
3/ It's a number greater than zero and given that the electric scooter in question does not appear to be obviously replacing a car but walking or cycling, it's a meaningful question to ask.
> Even combined with mass transit, surely the power consumed is miniscule compared with driving alone in a car, and the car is many times the initial manufacturing cost in metal parts, motors, even batteries.
This is totally true, but I don't think it's anything to do with my point, which is:
> It should be mandated that if you want to appeal to green-fingered consumers with your marketing, you have to state the emissions deficit from which your product operates and how many years it would take to recover from it with typical usage.
I don't disagree with anything you say about your Boosted Board being better for the environment than your Mazda 5. But it's nothing to do with my point.
> but honestly your comment sounds a lot like concern trolling to me.
I legitimately care that people are allowed to market goods as being environmentally friendly or "low emissions" without having to substantiate the emissions which go into their manufacture. Especially when they seem to me to be marketed as an alternative to cycling or walking, which seem to be obviously low-emission.
> If there's anything out there which needs an "emissions deficit" sticker to help dissuade conscientious purchasers, lets start with private automobiles.
Again you're not really arguing the point, but sure, I think this is a good idea (?). Especially for cars marketed as environmentally friendly but which come at a significant creation cost.
I'm sure it's unintentional but it's not clear to me what you're asking. So a range of possible answers:
1/ I don't know because they don't tell us what it is.
2/ It's the sum total amount of emissions directly caused by its production divided by the number of units produced. See also: carbon offsetting on planes.
3/ It's a number greater than zero and given that the electric scooter in question does not appear to be obviously replacing a car but walking or cycling, it's a meaningful question to ask.
> Even combined with mass transit, surely the power consumed is miniscule compared with driving alone in a car, and the car is many times the initial manufacturing cost in metal parts, motors, even batteries.
This is totally true, but I don't think it's anything to do with my point, which is:
> It should be mandated that if you want to appeal to green-fingered consumers with your marketing, you have to state the emissions deficit from which your product operates and how many years it would take to recover from it with typical usage.
I don't disagree with anything you say about your Boosted Board being better for the environment than your Mazda 5. But it's nothing to do with my point.
> but honestly your comment sounds a lot like concern trolling to me.
I legitimately care that people are allowed to market goods as being environmentally friendly or "low emissions" without having to substantiate the emissions which go into their manufacture. Especially when they seem to me to be marketed as an alternative to cycling or walking, which seem to be obviously low-emission.
> If there's anything out there which needs an "emissions deficit" sticker to help dissuade conscientious purchasers, lets start with private automobiles.
Again you're not really arguing the point, but sure, I think this is a good idea (?). Especially for cars marketed as environmentally friendly but which come at a significant creation cost.
That’s not a commute issue though.
Not saying it’s okay, but it’s a valid statement.
Not saying it’s okay, but it’s a valid statement.
This is true when you compare similar sized vehicles. If an electric scooter is replacing a car, not an unreasonable assumption in the US, then the emissions savings will be massive.
> If an electric scooter is replacing a car, not an unreasonable assumption in the US
This is an unreasonable assumption.
This is an unreasonable assumption.
Agree to disagree then.
Because most electricity still comes from natural gas and coal. Nuclear energy still produces nuclear waste which has to go somewhere. Unless someone is relying purely on wind or solar, which is rare, they're still creating pollution by-proxy when they're charging their electric vehicle. You can't call it "zero emissions" when the emissions are just out of sight and out of mind.
Nuclear waste is not emissions, it doesn’t contribute to climate change and is low in volume. It still contains enough energy to be reused in breeder reactors (this is why long-term waste burial projects are meaningless — we’ll dig in back in less than 100 years and use as fuel).
>I suspect you'll say that generating electricity causes emissions, which is only true in some cases
I think you meant "the majority of cases".
I think you meant "the majority of cases".
[deleted]
This isn't some 4,000 pound Tesla.
According to https://mi-xiaomi.net/specs/, the scooter uses 1.1 kWh per 100km. Let's say you ride this scooter 10 miles a day on your nice, short commute. That's roughly 0.2kWh. The average home uses ~35 kWh per day, so this is in the noise of household electricity usage.
Per https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gases-equivalencies-ca... that's roughly 0.3 lbs of C02 in those 10 miles in the average US state. Obviously it's significantly lower than that in many places using nuclear, natural gas, and renewables, and it is decreasing annually everywhere.
According to https://www.answers.com/Q/How_much_carbon_dioxide_does_a_car..., the average car produces 0.6 lbs of C02 per mile, or 6 lbs of C02 in that 10-mile commute.
So the electric scooter isn't quite zero, but it's insignificant at less than 5% of the emissions of an average car.
According to https://mi-xiaomi.net/specs/, the scooter uses 1.1 kWh per 100km. Let's say you ride this scooter 10 miles a day on your nice, short commute. That's roughly 0.2kWh. The average home uses ~35 kWh per day, so this is in the noise of household electricity usage.
Per https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gases-equivalencies-ca... that's roughly 0.3 lbs of C02 in those 10 miles in the average US state. Obviously it's significantly lower than that in many places using nuclear, natural gas, and renewables, and it is decreasing annually everywhere.
According to https://www.answers.com/Q/How_much_carbon_dioxide_does_a_car..., the average car produces 0.6 lbs of C02 per mile, or 6 lbs of C02 in that 10-mile commute.
So the electric scooter isn't quite zero, but it's insignificant at less than 5% of the emissions of an average car.
I find this argument exhausting. You can always define the system in such a way that there is some deleterious effect somewhere.
Evidence their business model isn’t working out. Their scooters (along with all the other companies) have all but disappeared from my area, where they once littered the sidewalk.
Once you fall once or twice on these scooters, it’s hard to ride them again. Especially when it’s the scooter that’s broken, as is often the case. It’s a shrinking market base, consequently. They (Uber-Jump, Lime) should have given incentive by offering some kind of coupons after an accident, instead of declining all responsibility and sending you the terms you signed or ghosting their customers.
Once you fall once or twice on these scooters, it’s hard to ride them again. Especially when it’s the scooter that’s broken, as is often the case. It’s a shrinking market base, consequently. They (Uber-Jump, Lime) should have given incentive by offering some kind of coupons after an accident, instead of declining all responsibility and sending you the terms you signed or ghosting their customers.
I hope they fail. The sidewalks in Long Beach are a mess with these scooters. I see kids who are clearly not old enough to drive riding these things around, sometimes three on a scooter. Meanwhile the bike share program bikes now sit unused on the racks. This isn't replacing cars in my area, it is replacing exercise. The beach path is filled with these things, creating a real hazard since the exercise path is now a motorway.
I only just became aware of how obnoxious these things are. We just took a trip to San Diego and stayed in the Gaslamp and these things are everywhere, from multiple companies. By early evening they're just dumped all over place, sometimes in piles. Then the people riding them are a hazard, if they're on the sidewalk they come around corners and almost cream pedestrians, if they ride in the street they almost get themselves killed driving like idiots in traffic.
I hope this trend goes away.
I hope this trend goes away.
They haven't learned it yet here (Switzerland). A new one from Berlin just showed up. Now we have Bird, Flash and Tier (both out of Berlin). Ironic since these scooters are illegal in Germany so they can't operate them in their own country.
Lime has bailed out of Zürich after a serious accident which was caused by a scooter applying the park brake at speed due to some firmware issue.
Lime has bailed out of Zürich after a serious accident which was caused by a scooter applying the park brake at speed due to some firmware issue.
Flash I see everywhere, Tier not so much in Zürich. Is it new?
The German firms have models that have a brake that works mechanically on the wheels and this was the prerequisite by the city police after the lime accidents. Lime's scooters don't have a mechanical brake.
The German firms have models that have a brake that works mechanically on the wheels and this was the prerequisite by the city police after the lime accidents. Lime's scooters don't have a mechanical brake.
Seems to me their business model was faultyfrom the very beginning. For example, they initially claimed 1 week scooter payback to early investors. That was obviously an exaggeration. They also claimed to have market scale economics similar to Uber, but this was also false because the scooters were not being ridden from one micromarket to another. They were just staying in the same area.
There is a reason The Carlyle Group never rolled up all the bike rental shops into a big nationwide conglomerate!!
There is a reason The Carlyle Group never rolled up all the bike rental shops into a big nationwide conglomerate!!
Isn't that a public policy result more than a business result? They would still be around but cities have cracked down.
1. Non folding stem: Adds durability for a rental, but the super quick fold is a huge part of the appeal of a scooter, because it means you can easily take it with you on the train, put it in the trunk of a car, or store it under your desk. If you didn't care about compactness, you'd probably buy an e-bike.
2. Huge battery: Adds to the cost and weight, which makes it more annoying to carry. Great for a rental where Bird is paying per charge, but very few people need to ride 30 miles between charges, and for those that do, they'd probably rather have an e-bike that is faster and more stable.