Crossfit Inc. suspends use of Facebook and associated properties(crossfit.com)
crossfit.com
Crossfit Inc. suspends use of Facebook and associated properties
https://www.crossfit.com/battles/crossfit-suspends-facebook-instagram
163 comments
The cool part is that they kinda do have a dominant position: FB recently offered them $5M for exclusive rights to stream their live media coverage (the annual "games"), and they not only turned them down, but are now turning against them completely.
It is hard to say whether FB or CrossFit has more influence in this situation.
I have friends on FB who are fanatical about CrossFit. They write and post photos about workouts, events, and achievements. They seem to have limited use for FB otherwise.
With their sizable national (and increasingly global) community of dedicated fitness enthusiasts, I suspect CrossFit has better-than-even odds of launching a wildly successful sports-and-fitness-oriented social network. They would be able to instantly attract a large member base, have a presence in every metropolitan area, and those people would recruit their friends onto the network.
Edit to add: from what I can tell, CrossFit is a social network already. Except its a real-life network with people who spend a lot of time together.
I have friends on FB who are fanatical about CrossFit. They write and post photos about workouts, events, and achievements. They seem to have limited use for FB otherwise.
With their sizable national (and increasingly global) community of dedicated fitness enthusiasts, I suspect CrossFit has better-than-even odds of launching a wildly successful sports-and-fitness-oriented social network. They would be able to instantly attract a large member base, have a presence in every metropolitan area, and those people would recruit their friends onto the network.
Edit to add: from what I can tell, CrossFit is a social network already. Except its a real-life network with people who spend a lot of time together.
CorssFit isnt a social network, its a cult.
Ive had multiple friends join the cult, including one friend whos wife divorced him because he didnt share her love of CrossFit. The end result was always the same - chronic injuries usually only seen in professional sports people -> move to multi-level-marketing / influencing for any product linked to fitness / inspirational pr0n.
Been doing it for six months and never seen any of this.
Obsessive people are gonna obsess, and some will be drawn to Crossfit, but I've seen nothing more obsessive about Crossfit than other sports I've participated in like tennis or hockey. And honestly I'm not sure any of them hold a candle to software development in terms of obsessiveness... never known anybody to exercise 60 hours a week, but I know a lot of coders and gamers who hunch over a keyboard for that long. (Including me)
I've never heard of any kind of referral-based or MLM opportunity in crossfit.
Ultimately, a lot of athletes including me are making a reasoned choice. You can't really control a lot of things about your body, but you can definitely control your cardio fitness and your muscle mass to an extent. There are some risks involved with furthering your cardio and strength but also massive rewards.
I definitely understand that it can cause friction when one partner puts effort into healthier living and one doesn't. I've been on both sides of that coin. Right now my wife's taken the lead, I need to catch up.
I've watched friends die because they refused to be proactive about diet, health, and exercise in general. Never had a friend die from exercising yet. Although some of them really ought to talk a bit less about it if you ask me.
Obsessive people are gonna obsess, and some will be drawn to Crossfit, but I've seen nothing more obsessive about Crossfit than other sports I've participated in like tennis or hockey. And honestly I'm not sure any of them hold a candle to software development in terms of obsessiveness... never known anybody to exercise 60 hours a week, but I know a lot of coders and gamers who hunch over a keyboard for that long. (Including me)
> move to multi-level-marketing
I've never heard of any kind of referral-based or MLM opportunity in crossfit.
> chronic injuries usually only seen in professional sports people
Ultimately, a lot of athletes including me are making a reasoned choice. You can't really control a lot of things about your body, but you can definitely control your cardio fitness and your muscle mass to an extent. There are some risks involved with furthering your cardio and strength but also massive rewards.
> including one friend whos wife divorced him because he didnt share her love of CrossFit
I definitely understand that it can cause friction when one partner puts effort into healthier living and one doesn't. I've been on both sides of that coin. Right now my wife's taken the lead, I need to catch up.
I've watched friends die because they refused to be proactive about diet, health, and exercise in general. Never had a friend die from exercising yet. Although some of them really ought to talk a bit less about it if you ask me.
I see a lot of scepticism towards CrossFit here and it's probably with good reason, but I just want to add that your experience with the method of training is very dependant on the actual gym you go to.
Where I started training (and I was like the definition of "out of shape") the coaches preach form > intensity every step of the way and actually forbid you to do any dynamic movement before you have not sufficently mastered the strict equivalent. That said, I have also met Crossfitters that can do ten unbroken kipping pull ups and not a single strict one, which is obviously incredibly irresponsible and stupid.
I have now moved away from doing regular CrossFit workouts for many of the reasons listed in this thread, but I can honestly say, that changing my habits from couchpotato to fit dude would have not happened if it wasn't for the community and the style of training I have encoutered there. I learned how to backsquat there, I learned how to lock in my shoulders there, I learned how to stretch there, I learned about the basics of training methodology there. This would have never happend if I would have just gone to Planet Fitness (or whatever) on my own.
Where I started training (and I was like the definition of "out of shape") the coaches preach form > intensity every step of the way and actually forbid you to do any dynamic movement before you have not sufficently mastered the strict equivalent. That said, I have also met Crossfitters that can do ten unbroken kipping pull ups and not a single strict one, which is obviously incredibly irresponsible and stupid.
I have now moved away from doing regular CrossFit workouts for many of the reasons listed in this thread, but I can honestly say, that changing my habits from couchpotato to fit dude would have not happened if it wasn't for the community and the style of training I have encoutered there. I learned how to backsquat there, I learned how to lock in my shoulders there, I learned how to stretch there, I learned about the basics of training methodology there. This would have never happend if I would have just gone to Planet Fitness (or whatever) on my own.
I'm not judging CrossFit on the program or its value. I take great issue with this straight up anti-vaxx type of thinking:
"Facebook is acting in the service of food and beverage industry interests by deleting the accounts of communities that have identified the corrupted nutritional science responsible for unchecked global chronic disease."
science is responsible for disease, listen to us instead
"Facebook is acting in the service of food and beverage industry interests by deleting the accounts of communities that have identified the corrupted nutritional science responsible for unchecked global chronic disease."
science is responsible for disease, listen to us instead
Replacing "corrupted nutritional science" with just "science", as if they deny science as a concept, is a very dishonest rhetorical trick. We have seen very bad nutritional advice given under the guise of "nutritional science" for years, and now we know that advice was very bad. We're still not entirely sure, as far as I know, how good nutritional advice looks like, in many cases, and it may be completely appropriate to point to some nutritional advice as bad nutritional science. And yes, using such advice can cause disease - just as using "science" at the time which denied the germ theory was the cause of many cases of disease. It's a very far cry from denying whole science or even nutritional science.
Using it with the tone that "Big Doritos" is buying off Facebook to help silence dissenting voices in nutrition is disingenuous.
Sure there is lots of bad advice floating around - but claiming a conspiracy requires some hard evidence be put forth.
Sure there is lots of bad advice floating around - but claiming a conspiracy requires some hard evidence be put forth.
Depending of what you call "conspiracy". Does US Government promoting disastrous nutritional advice for decades and pushing the food industry to produce what we now recognize as extremely unhealthy products qualify as "conspiracy"? Does reluctance of the industry to recognize just how bad those are because they sell extremely well and some are likely to be physiologically and psychologically addictive - constitute a "conspiracy"? Maybe not, since it happens in the open and evidence of it is literally in front of our own eyes every time we go to the supermarket. Does it make anything better if it's not qualified as "conspiracy"?
Not only are you dishonest about them denying “science”, but you’re embarrassingly uninformed about a topic that you speak with such smug superiority about. Are NPR and Harvard also nut job conspiracy whackos?
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...
Wow, it's not often you get a win/win. Facebook will have less bullshit CrossFit stuff, and CrossFit will be less vulnerable to Facebook's bullshit censoring.
Way to go team!
Way to go team!
Reminder:
Always reflect on who you are associating yourself with, in a cult, company owned group, non-democratic group, activity that marks you as "one of them",etc... you cease to be an individual and become just the fuel behind someone else's agenda and values (neither of which you can control).
Be an individual.
Always reflect on who you are associating yourself with, in a cult, company owned group, non-democratic group, activity that marks you as "one of them",etc... you cease to be an individual and become just the fuel behind someone else's agenda and values (neither of which you can control).
Be an individual.
Yes, we're all individuals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QereR0CViMY
p1necone(1)
This is actually a big deal. CrossFit, whether you like it or not (I’m not a fan) is at this point a major consumer brand. Not too long ago it would have been unthinkable for a brand this significant to make this kind of move.
It should be unthinkable. Do we really want social issues litigated by major brands slinging mud at each other? Imagine Pepsi publishing the equivalent article about how Comcast is evil.
> Do we really want social issues litigated by major brands slinging mud at each other?
I agree the mud slinging in this post is pretty ridiculous, but I certainly like it when major brands refuse to do business with other brands that are harmful to society. For example, those that chose not to advertise on Fox News.
I agree the mud slinging in this post is pretty ridiculous, but I certainly like it when major brands refuse to do business with other brands that are harmful to society. For example, those that chose not to advertise on Fox News.
I can respect a decision to simply not do business. Going on a rant about it just feels like an attempt to manipulate public discourse for Crossfit’s benefit.
And, since you mentioned Fox News, look at the last tweet's date on https://twitter.com/foxnews.
Boycotts have a long, storied history.
Boycotts have a long, storied history.
I’d much rather have megacorps slugging it out with each other than making wink & handshake deals to play nice.
Wow I had heard Crossfit was a bit of an obsession for some people and a quirky approach to fitness, but I had no idea their official spiel was this level of paranoia - attacking academia as an unholy alliance of the establishment?
> The voluntary CrossFit community of 15,000 affiliates and millions of individual adherents stands steadfastly and often alone against an unholy alliance of academia, government, and multinational food, beverage, and pharmaceutical companies.
> The voluntary CrossFit community of 15,000 affiliates and millions of individual adherents stands steadfastly and often alone against an unholy alliance of academia, government, and multinational food, beverage, and pharmaceutical companies.
If you've ever been an athlete, and have spent 30 seconds watching crossfit - it becomes obvious the goal is to see how dumb of an "exercise" you can do before getting hurt.
There are two type of crossfitters - those who have gotten a permanent and serious injury, and those who are going to get one.
There are two type of crossfitters - those who have gotten a permanent and serious injury, and those who are going to get one.
Well, I have short hamstrings. Which makes squatting a little bit more difficult.
They saw it in CrossFit and suggested a quick-fix. On all the time I fitnessed, they were the only ones that saw it.
Just my 2 cents
They saw it in CrossFit and suggested a quick-fix. On all the time I fitnessed, they were the only ones that saw it.
Just my 2 cents
Curiously - have you personally tried it?
Always wondered how one of my friends is uninjured from CrossFit doing it 3 times a week for 10 yrs.
I am guessing he doesn't push himself to the limit.
I am guessing he doesn't push himself to the limit.
Supposedly there are (rare) good CrossFit trainers who keep their class safe.
There are plenty of “bad” trainers out there in any field.
And by bad it doesn’t mean they don’t know what they should be doing but rather cave into the demands of their clients that want quick results and to feel the pump.
Just look at how many people go straight into weight lifting with compound exercises without first spending months working on stability, flexibility and burst speed/power.
Then what happens is that they get into a worse state and hit a wall even if they now can bench press 1.5 their body weight.
You would be much better off benching only 100 lbs while being able to stand straight against a wall while keeping your lower back, shoulder blades, elbows and the back of your palm against the wall comfortably throughout a shoulder press.
I’ve literally seen people getting so stiff after “training” for 6 months that I’m not sure if even 2 years of corrective exercises could bring them back to their starting point yet alone to the point where they can start building muscles safely.
And while in the mid 20’s to mid 30’s they might not notice it once they hit their 40’s and couldn’t stand straight because their lats and delts were developed incorrectly and they have no core they sure will.
And by bad it doesn’t mean they don’t know what they should be doing but rather cave into the demands of their clients that want quick results and to feel the pump.
Just look at how many people go straight into weight lifting with compound exercises without first spending months working on stability, flexibility and burst speed/power.
Then what happens is that they get into a worse state and hit a wall even if they now can bench press 1.5 their body weight.
You would be much better off benching only 100 lbs while being able to stand straight against a wall while keeping your lower back, shoulder blades, elbows and the back of your palm against the wall comfortably throughout a shoulder press.
I’ve literally seen people getting so stiff after “training” for 6 months that I’m not sure if even 2 years of corrective exercises could bring them back to their starting point yet alone to the point where they can start building muscles safely.
And while in the mid 20’s to mid 30’s they might not notice it once they hit their 40’s and couldn’t stand straight because their lats and delts were developed incorrectly and they have no core they sure will.
Supposedly. In personal experience, I've observed an actual 100% fit for people who lack critical thinking skills, or often even general intelligence, and significant Crossfit engagement.
I really do think it is an obviously anti-intellectual consumer cult. I know many people who have tried it and decided it was not reasonable.
Edit:
I think my comment comes across as a generalized put-down, which rubbed people the wrong way and garnered the downvotes.
The experience I shared is truthful. Every single person I know that has really fallen into the Crossfit consumer cult is as far as I can tell a person who proves themselves to be susceptible to morally bankrupt, intellectually inept ideas. All of these people legitimately lack critical thinking skills. That's my own experience.
As far as the actual regime goes, it is pretty-well established to be anti-intellectual and flagrantly dismissive of science. They advertise this.
Yes some very fit people also do it and profit off of it. Some very rich people also promote MLM, which is a consumer cult deserving of similar, but worse criticism.
Should I not be able to criticize people who fall into MLM consumer cults? I think we need to allow criticism.
What about scientology, or other religious cults? What about other anti-intellectual cult of ideas like flat earth, anti-vax or phrenology?
Tell me exactly where the line is drawn, and why.
I really do think it is an obviously anti-intellectual consumer cult. I know many people who have tried it and decided it was not reasonable.
Edit:
I think my comment comes across as a generalized put-down, which rubbed people the wrong way and garnered the downvotes.
The experience I shared is truthful. Every single person I know that has really fallen into the Crossfit consumer cult is as far as I can tell a person who proves themselves to be susceptible to morally bankrupt, intellectually inept ideas. All of these people legitimately lack critical thinking skills. That's my own experience.
As far as the actual regime goes, it is pretty-well established to be anti-intellectual and flagrantly dismissive of science. They advertise this.
Yes some very fit people also do it and profit off of it. Some very rich people also promote MLM, which is a consumer cult deserving of similar, but worse criticism.
Should I not be able to criticize people who fall into MLM consumer cults? I think we need to allow criticism.
What about scientology, or other religious cults? What about other anti-intellectual cult of ideas like flat earth, anti-vax or phrenology?
Tell me exactly where the line is drawn, and why.
>Every single person I know that has really fallen into the Crossfit consumer cult is as far as I can tell a person who proves themselves to be susceptible to morally bankrupt, intellectually inept ideas.
Those are probably the vocal ones. Plenty do crossfit and don't harp about it to everyone they meet -- it's just a form of exercise, like running or going for a swim.
Those are probably the vocal ones. Plenty do crossfit and don't harp about it to everyone they meet -- it's just a form of exercise, like running or going for a swim.
[deleted]
great conversation here guys
What would you say about other intentionally anti-intellectual dogmas?
I do think they are worth considering, but also worth criticizing when they're proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be worse than useless.
I do think they are worth considering, but also worth criticizing when they're proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be worse than useless.
> worse than useless
what is anyone's goal when partaking in exercise? And how about joining a club? Look at the CrossFit Games winners - do you think they've achieved nothing?
I don't partake in it, for the record. And I do acknowledge that many of the exercises seem ill-advised. But I made an account after like 6 years of lurking to point out that you're being pretty dogmatic in your criticisms of dogmas.
what is anyone's goal when partaking in exercise? And how about joining a club? Look at the CrossFit Games winners - do you think they've achieved nothing?
I don't partake in it, for the record. And I do acknowledge that many of the exercises seem ill-advised. But I made an account after like 6 years of lurking to point out that you're being pretty dogmatic in your criticisms of dogmas.
HN throttles your ability to comment if you get downvoted on a couple of comments. I could not reply so I edited my comment above, earlier, to respond to you.
I do think it's blatantly obvious that Crossfit is anti-intellectual consumer cult. They advertise this themselves.
It's a bit much to say every single person who does XFit is stupid, but I was sharing my own observations honestly.
Have you met any MLM people? Would you not say the same? Crossfit intentionally dismisses science and warnings related to potential problems with health and injury. Is that not unethical?
Also, all of my negative Crossfit comments seem to have been hit with the same exact number of downvotes here. I wouldn't expect it, but also wouldn't be surprised if there is some brigaiding here.
I do think it's blatantly obvious that Crossfit is anti-intellectual consumer cult. They advertise this themselves.
It's a bit much to say every single person who does XFit is stupid, but I was sharing my own observations honestly.
Have you met any MLM people? Would you not say the same? Crossfit intentionally dismisses science and warnings related to potential problems with health and injury. Is that not unethical?
Also, all of my negative Crossfit comments seem to have been hit with the same exact number of downvotes here. I wouldn't expect it, but also wouldn't be surprised if there is some brigaiding here.
100%? I'm interested to hear the reasoning and methods used to arrive at this conclusive statistic.
He's just as morally bankrupt for putting up false statistics.
At least half of the people I've met that regularly do CrossFit are the kind of "anti-intellectual" cult followers who graduated from MIT & are distinguished in their fields, or have Ph.D.s in hard sciences.
Such luddites.
Such luddites.
There are a lot of "smart" people that lack critical thinking skills, and whom are also bootlickers willing to ride on the latest bandwagon fad.
Had an acquaintance with a masters in electrical engineering from a prestigious university and worked as a senior research engineer at the R&D labs of a well known cutting edge electronics firm. And I've lost count of the number of weird cults and MLM schemes he's been suckered into.
It is really impossible to say. There are just too many variables to consider here. For example:
Some CrossFit gyms have more offerings than just the traditional WoDs. E.g.: your friend might have be mixing mobility training, strength, cardio workouts.
Also, your friend might have latent injuries or have to stop for a week or so due pain/soreness. It is just you are not aware of those.
Some people are anatomically more fit for certain exercises than others. I'll skip any days with dead lifts because it is an exercise I cannot compromise proper form. So, I protect myself even if for many CF coaches it is just temporary weakness I could improve.
Some CrossFit gyms have more offerings than just the traditional WoDs. E.g.: your friend might have be mixing mobility training, strength, cardio workouts.
Also, your friend might have latent injuries or have to stop for a week or so due pain/soreness. It is just you are not aware of those.
Some people are anatomically more fit for certain exercises than others. I'll skip any days with dead lifts because it is an exercise I cannot compromise proper form. So, I protect myself even if for many CF coaches it is just temporary weakness I could improve.
I can't verify the quality of these studies but it seems that injury rates per 1000 active hours of crossfit at 0.27 - 0.74 [1] are significantly lower than more common sports such as running at 2.9 - 4.4 and basketball at 6.3 - 12.9 [2]
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6201188/ [2] http://bionics.seas.ucla.edu/education/Rowing/Injury_2004_01...
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6201188/ [2] http://bionics.seas.ucla.edu/education/Rowing/Injury_2004_01...
Importantly, the study "assumes" that participants performed a "maximum number of hours per week" rather than measuring the actual hours per week. Because they "assume" the amount of time spent exercising, their injuries per 1000 hours metric is simply wrong.
Specifically, this study conflicts with several other studies that found significantly higher rates of injury (and which this study acknowledges), including 2 studies which found a 20% rate of injury and 50% rate of injury for Crossfit athletes, respectively, using controlled observational samples rather than the self-reported, self-selected sample of this study.
Anecdotally, I don't know any current Crossfitters without overuse injuries--including those who go to the "safe" gyms. I also know a larger number of former Crossfitters, all of whom stopped because of injury.
Specifically, this study conflicts with several other studies that found significantly higher rates of injury (and which this study acknowledges), including 2 studies which found a 20% rate of injury and 50% rate of injury for Crossfit athletes, respectively, using controlled observational samples rather than the self-reported, self-selected sample of this study.
Anecdotally, I don't know any current Crossfitters without overuse injuries--including those who go to the "safe" gyms. I also know a larger number of former Crossfitters, all of whom stopped because of injury.
>this study conflicts with several other studies that found significantly higher rates of injury
Can you provide a citation?
Can you provide a citation?
Last I checked there wasn’t CrossFit for basketball. You should compare apples to apples. How does it stack up against (trained) non-CrossFit weight training?
Judging by how those idiots abuse gym equipment I’d expect poorly, but prove me wrong.
Judging by how those idiots abuse gym equipment I’d expect poorly, but prove me wrong.
I power-lifted. I got injured. Many of us did.
It's much higher. Even the studies show it: https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/wp-content/u...
https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/2014/07/08/i...
It's much higher. Even the studies show it: https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/wp-content/u...
https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/2014/07/08/i...
Powerlifting is definitely not the same as general CrossFit and is pretty obviously a dangerous sport. I would guess that based on the amount of jerking and twisting I see in CrossFitters doing powerlifting that the injury rate would be higher still within that specific discipline. Again, all speculation on my part.
I’m thinking an intense workout with good form and control vs. a standard CrossFit workout.
I’m thinking an intense workout with good form and control vs. a standard CrossFit workout.
> I’m thinking an intense workout with good form and control vs. a standard CrossFit workout
A standard CrossFit without is done with good form and control.
A standard CrossFit without is done with good form and control.
Most CrossFit gyms aim for good form and control. All workouts can be scaled, if you can't lift a certain weight, or perform a certain movement you scale it down to a weight or movement you can do comfortably.
For instance, if you were asked to perform a workout which required handstand push-ups and you couldn't do them, you could scale to a box and do a more triangular movement, or you could grab some dumbbells and push-press. If a movement said 100kg deadlift and you can only comfortably deadlift 40kg then you would use 40kg instead.
Most coaches will talk through this and if you have questions, they'll mostly be happy to answer. Of course there are some coaches out there which aren't doing their job correctly, but most of them are really good at what they do.
For instance, if you were asked to perform a workout which required handstand push-ups and you couldn't do them, you could scale to a box and do a more triangular movement, or you could grab some dumbbells and push-press. If a movement said 100kg deadlift and you can only comfortably deadlift 40kg then you would use 40kg instead.
Most coaches will talk through this and if you have questions, they'll mostly be happy to answer. Of course there are some coaches out there which aren't doing their job correctly, but most of them are really good at what they do.
Crossfit now aims for good form and control.
That wasn't true several years ago during the Uncle Rhabdo phase, and Crossfit only changed its tune because of the overwhelming bad press about injury rates. Back then, it was about doing exercises as fast and as many times as possible.
That wasn't true several years ago during the Uncle Rhabdo phase, and Crossfit only changed its tune because of the overwhelming bad press about injury rates. Back then, it was about doing exercises as fast and as many times as possible.
and as any other transition, it takes time to incorporate. A lot of gyms and coaches I still see those days know/care very little about proper form and exercise individualization, periodization to make it safer.
Since you have such specific demands for a study that will satisfy your prejudices, I think you should find it yourself instead of demanding other, more resourceful and open minded people find it for you.
Powerlifting is probably the most dangerous weight lifting discipline, because of the bench press[1]. Almost all of these are due to lifting alone, without a spotter, and without proper safety mechanisms (like a rack with crossbars). This seems to be a downvote happy thread, but this needs to be said: Don't bench without a spotter or safety gear. Ever!
[1] https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2003/05001/U_S__...
[1] https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2003/05001/U_S__...
I don't bench that often, but I do it without a spotter or safety gear. I use normal grip (not the thumbless "suicide" grip), never go to failure, do medium-low weight/medium-high reps (8-12), and most importantly, I don't lock the weights, so worst comes to worst, I can always just tilt the bar and drop the weights...
If the worst comes to worst, push the bar down to your belly. You have saved your neck this way, giving yourself the chance to tilt the bar in a controlled manner after a breath. If you are already failing, tilting the bar might be too much without more O2
Sure, but "failure" isn't "dropping the bar on your throat"... that would be catastrophic failure that shouldn't really happen (and not even a spotter could save you). When I lift, "failure" is usually just "can't lift the bar to the top" so there's more than enough strength to lower it a bit to tilt it...
I always had both of those things (and a coach).
My personal injury was a pinched sciatic nerve brought on by a session of improper deadlifting. I made the mistake of rushing through a workout near when I was lifting my heaviest. Took about 3 months for the pain to go away.
My personal injury was a pinched sciatic nerve brought on by a session of improper deadlifting. I made the mistake of rushing through a workout near when I was lifting my heaviest. Took about 3 months for the pain to go away.
The fundamentals of Crossfit are entirely sound. A warmup followed by some subset of bodyweight exercises, calisthenics, rowing, running, climbing, and (olympic) weightlifting is a completely reasonable fitness regimen. Being sensible is a matter of leveling the workout to your own particular circumstances: age and overall fitness being the two biggest factors.
But yeah I've also seen the videos on youtube of people doing heavy barbell back squats on a bosu ball and similar, to use the technical term, stupid shit that will get you hurt.
Mark Rippetoe has one of the better criticisms of CrossFit: it's just an exercise program, not a training program. Proof is that the athletes that compete in and win the Crossfit games don't actually do Crossfit to prepare, they have specific training regimens for those games.
But yeah I've also seen the videos on youtube of people doing heavy barbell back squats on a bosu ball and similar, to use the technical term, stupid shit that will get you hurt.
Mark Rippetoe has one of the better criticisms of CrossFit: it's just an exercise program, not a training program. Proof is that the athletes that compete in and win the Crossfit games don't actually do Crossfit to prepare, they have specific training regimens for those games.
Being sensible is not having a WoD one size fits all. It oversimplifies too much IMO.
People, specially who are new, haven’t gotten serious injuries, or just don’t understand how exercise can get you high, tend to fall in the WoD trap from my observations.
There have been a great mindset change with CrossFit in terms of sharing good knowledge, welcoming new members no matter their level and mixing everyone together but still everyday seems to be race day in CrossFit.
People, specially who are new, haven’t gotten serious injuries, or just don’t understand how exercise can get you high, tend to fall in the WoD trap from my observations.
There have been a great mindset change with CrossFit in terms of sharing good knowledge, welcoming new members no matter their level and mixing everyone together but still everyday seems to be race day in CrossFit.
I completely agree. Any Crossfit gym where the coach doesn't enthusiastically support scaling down from the "Rx" is one nobody should go to. As I've said elsewhere in this thread I don't do Crossfit (I'm lazy and I hate cardio so I powerlift), but I know many people that do and their coaches have been entirely supportive of proper scaling to ability, with an eye toward progression of course.
I was a multi sport athlete and loved crossfit when I did it. Guess it all depends on where you go.
Just wondering here --
Isn't crossfit different depending on where you go?
I believe it was invented by some European guy... who did stuff with kettlebells. And most of those exercises are good.
I think the American variant is the one that's dangerous. (Or am I misinformed here?)
Isn't crossfit different depending on where you go?
I believe it was invented by some European guy... who did stuff with kettlebells. And most of those exercises are good.
I think the American variant is the one that's dangerous. (Or am I misinformed here?)
Don't think it's a geographical split. Crossfit is great if you have really well-informed trainers that put a strong emphasis on getting form and movements correct. Unfortunately there are significant numbers of trainers that do not have the qualifications to be teaching and they put people at serious risk of injury (and end up creating ridiculous exercises for the internet to make fun of).
kipping is fucking hilarious
Kipping is great when you're competing for maximum reps in a certain amount of time. You should be able to do the strict exercises first, of course, but the point of kipping is for a competitive advantage -- kipping is ridiculously less taxing on the muscles, and makes pull ups / muscle ups more of a cardio contest than pure strength.
Dribbling looks hilarious too, and basketball is supposed to be a passing game[1], but dribbling isn't illegal and gives the player a competitive advantage in the same vein.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dribbling#Basketball
Dribbling looks hilarious too, and basketball is supposed to be a passing game[1], but dribbling isn't illegal and gives the player a competitive advantage in the same vein.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dribbling#Basketball
What's hilarious about using momentum to progress to a muscle up and eventually a strict muscle up?
In my observation, and this is at many gyms (btw I don't do Crossfit), very few people do every rep of a pull up from a true dead hang. Kipping is silly looking, but the technique does allow you to progress your way into a muscle up, kind of like a push press can help you train your strict press past what you otherwise could.
In my observation, and this is at many gyms (btw I don't do Crossfit), very few people do every rep of a pull up from a true dead hang. Kipping is silly looking, but the technique does allow you to progress your way into a muscle up, kind of like a push press can help you train your strict press past what you otherwise could.
That’s because people are impatient and weak. Dead hang pullups are real pullups.
Kipping only leads you to kipping muscle ups. Go on YouTube and see examples of real muscle ups from dead hangs with no momentum. That is true strength, and a worthy goal. The sooner you stop kipping, the faster you can get there.
Kipping only leads you to kipping muscle ups. Go on YouTube and see examples of real muscle ups from dead hangs with no momentum. That is true strength, and a worthy goal. The sooner you stop kipping, the faster you can get there.
I have the greatest respect for gymnasts, because they are basically top of the heap for pound for pound strength. It's not an area of expertise for me though, so please enlighten me: if using momentum to get a kipping muscle up and then gradually reducing the momentum assist until you can do it strictly isn't the right progression, what is?
The right progression is breaking the muscle up into its separate components and getting strong at each one individually until you can combine them into one movement and do your first muscle up.
You have to accept that it will be a long time before you can do even one proper muscle up, and most people just aren’t willing to so they kip and tell themselves they can do “muscle ups”.
You have to accept that it will be a long time before you can do even one proper muscle up, and most people just aren’t willing to so they kip and tell themselves they can do “muscle ups”.
A lot of bodyweight exercises, muscle ups included, have a strong technique component. Kipping teaches bad habits that you need to unlearn to learn a "real" muscle ups.
I think the main problem with the Crossfit-kipping-approach you often see on YouTube is that it doesn't look like the person being filmed is at all interested in ever transitioning to a proper muscle up, but rather to kip as much as possible to get as many reps as possible in 60 second or w/e.
You're absolutely right in that you need to start somewhere, and a properly instructed kip can definitely help there. But you could also start by doing negatives of the partial exercises (start pulled/pushed up and lower yourself down in a controlled manner), which can be at the same time used to teach proper form and naturally transition into a full muscle up.
Once again, it's the classic Crossfit problem: if you do it properly and controlled, it is a nice exercise regimen. According to most anecdotal evidence, a lot of people don't, though.
Edit: retiredcoder also replied with bands etc. to support in the beginning, which is obviously also a good method and, now that I think of it, one I've often seen in my gym. In the same vein, there's usually a pull up machine somewhere in the back that will support you by using a counterweight on the way up, though here you'll have the usual discussion regarding machine/no machine.
You're absolutely right in that you need to start somewhere, and a properly instructed kip can definitely help there. But you could also start by doing negatives of the partial exercises (start pulled/pushed up and lower yourself down in a controlled manner), which can be at the same time used to teach proper form and naturally transition into a full muscle up.
Once again, it's the classic Crossfit problem: if you do it properly and controlled, it is a nice exercise regimen. According to most anecdotal evidence, a lot of people don't, though.
Edit: retiredcoder also replied with bands etc. to support in the beginning, which is obviously also a good method and, now that I think of it, one I've often seen in my gym. In the same vein, there's usually a pull up machine somewhere in the back that will support you by using a counterweight on the way up, though here you'll have the usual discussion regarding machine/no machine.
One thing to consider when scaling down and up an exercise is to measure progress, kipping is not very precise and usually used to make one achieve arbitrary goals way off ones reach (eg massive ammounts of pull-ups in a short period of time, oh impossible even for elite athletes but with kipping we can get there).
Same goes with handstand push-up with against the wall and that kick up. That’s one of the hardest exercises in gymnastics from my experience, why do one want to do that in a HIIT is beyond me.
As for scaling, I never consider not compromising but actually reinforcing proper form even overthinking it, to prepare one for load and speed (when things tend to go awry). As tools and techniques to scale down, there are bands, eccentrics, Grease the groove, etc.
Ps: you seem to have been downvoted but your question seemed legit to me. I hear that a lot from gym mates
Same goes with handstand push-up with against the wall and that kick up. That’s one of the hardest exercises in gymnastics from my experience, why do one want to do that in a HIIT is beyond me.
As for scaling, I never consider not compromising but actually reinforcing proper form even overthinking it, to prepare one for load and speed (when things tend to go awry). As tools and techniques to scale down, there are bands, eccentrics, Grease the groove, etc.
Ps: you seem to have been downvoted but your question seemed legit to me. I hear that a lot from gym mates
Well, considering you could get certified as a CF instructor in a weekend session, I am entirely unsurprised.
Crossfit is from Santa Cruz and is a combination of a lot of different stuff, the mix of which has changed over time. It's different depending where you go because there has never really been a standardized specific thing that it is and gyms are entirely independent. Gyms license the brand name, there are certification classes run by corporate, there is a very active internet community and something of a consistent philosophy, but what any particular gym actually does as far as training has always varied wildly and that's been from the very beginning.
Whenever I think of CrossFit as a brand/product, BodyPump comes to my mind. The biggest difference for me is how CrossFit managed to scale much bigger and keep popularity among their followers.
I think you're thinking of Pavel Tsatsouline that promoted the kettlebell in the west. Crossfit came much later.
At least to my own experience, I would say, the variation is gym to gym, depending on the instructors background / experience (or lack-of) and less between countries.
It probably depends gym, at least gym where I did go did not do anything super dangerous and it was more powerlifting, bodyweight exercises and some kettlebells exercises. Most dangerous thing was probably box jumps and there instructor advice to step down instead of jumping down.
If they had simply said "Facebook does not respect its users and is psychologically unhealthy; we're out" then I would've been pretty nonchalant.
What a weird and unnecessary rant.
What a weird and unnecessary rant.
Before I clicked the link I thought "I bet they got facebook warnings for some junk posts, but they'll play leaving facebook off as a moral decision." But I was surprised to be so wrong. With phrases like "corrupt academic organizations" they aren't even even trying to hide their culture-wide embrace of pseudosciences.
There are corrupt academic organisations. The idea that 'fat makes you fat' was exposed recently as having started with Harvard researchers being paid by sugar companies. Most nutritionists know that 'fat makes you fat' is simplistic (it ignores digestion) and accept that sugar contributes more towards obesity than fat does now.
Weirdly, FB banned a group advocating against 'fat makes you fat' in 2019.
> Recently, Facebook deleted without warning or explanation the Banting7DayMealPlan user group. The group has 1.65 million users who post testimonials and other information regarding the efficacy of a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet. While the site has subsequently been reinstated (also without warning or explanation), Facebook’s action should give any serious person reason to pause, especially those of us engaged in activities contrary to prevailing opinion.
Weirdly, FB banned a group advocating against 'fat makes you fat' in 2019.
> Recently, Facebook deleted without warning or explanation the Banting7DayMealPlan user group. The group has 1.65 million users who post testimonials and other information regarding the efficacy of a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet. While the site has subsequently been reinstated (also without warning or explanation), Facebook’s action should give any serious person reason to pause, especially those of us engaged in activities contrary to prevailing opinion.
In the modern news cycle the only thing that matters is rage and shock. If they didn't make an unnecessary rant, it would get fewer retweets.
As someone working in academia, I'm fine with them attacking academia. There are a lot of objectively bad studies out there and sponsorships that shouldn't happen. Most professors don't care about open access or benefitting humanity, just playing the tenure politics game. There's some room for criticism between being head-in-the-sand anti-vax and blindly worshipping the journal-industrial complex. Academia needs to be taken down a few notches.
No opinion on CrossFit, but if you've ever worked in Academia you realize that it's more of a cult and spreader of misinformation than any other establishment. Not always on purpose, but that doesn't matter.
Without more context this is just FUD
Academia has a pretty bad track record when it comes to nutrition advice. "Food science" is mostly the study of how to maximize food manufacturer profits, not how to construct a healthy diet.
[citation needed]
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...
Smug, uninformed tool for corrupt authority
Smug, uninformed tool for corrupt authority
[deleted]
Citation? Snort. Let me know when they figure out whether or not eggs are going to kill me.
If you need someone to tell you whether eggs are going to kill you, then you are beyond help. What you are complaining about is not academia, but the reporting on academia. Most institutions hardly even blink when a study about the health benefits/detriments of eggs, coffee, or the like is published. You’d change my mind, perhaps, if you told me that you actually followed multiple scientific journals.
Sounds like you're saying the nutritional researchers do have their story straight on this and countless other issues, but just aren't communicating it well.
But if the researchers don't communicate effectively with the rest of us, or with our physicians, then why do they even bother going to work in the morning? It's not my job to read scientific journals, and the doctors are as confused by the barrage of junk science as anyone else.
But if the researchers don't communicate effectively with the rest of us, or with our physicians, then why do they even bother going to work in the morning? It's not my job to read scientific journals, and the doctors are as confused by the barrage of junk science as anyone else.
This was an interesting article I read about CrossFit from about a year ago that goes into some of this:
CrossFit’s “Holy War”: The Rise And Fall Of Its Science Crusader https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/russell-b...
CrossFit’s “Holy War”: The Rise And Fall Of Its Science Crusader https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/russell-b...
They aren’t attacking academia in general as unholy. Just saying there is a vested economic interest for some in academia to publish content adhering to viewpoints that help company bottom lines.
Or should I just trust a company, eg, CrossFit?
Trust me, if there were any way of making CrossFit look scientifically sound, they would’ve paid for it by now.
Unpopular opinion, but they aren't that far off with regards to academia. Academia has little scientific agenda at its core—most things boil down to money.
If you want to make a case for your idea on any topic, put money on that topic and professors and researchers work towards making a case for it (this is less true about math and (maybe?) physics but the farther you get from those topics, the more impact money has on results and ideas).
Academia (mostly? in the US) is just yet another institution that is solely driven by money.
If you want to make a case for your idea on any topic, put money on that topic and professors and researchers work towards making a case for it (this is less true about math and (maybe?) physics but the farther you get from those topics, the more impact money has on results and ideas).
Academia (mostly? in the US) is just yet another institution that is solely driven by money.
> Academia has little scientific agenda at its core—most things boil down to money.
It's like you're right, but completely wrong at the same time... At it's core, scientific research should not have an agenda. Researchers are normally happy to do important things and they have good ideas.
Yes, the funding is a really big issue and lack of needed followups to interesting results of the initial sponsor often happens when the sponsor is not involved anymore. Researchers essentially either have to work for someone or come up with topics and then beg potentially-interested people for money. (aka research grants)
Academia being driven by money has less to do with academia and more with lack of money it needs to work on independent research.
It's like you're right, but completely wrong at the same time... At it's core, scientific research should not have an agenda. Researchers are normally happy to do important things and they have good ideas.
Yes, the funding is a really big issue and lack of needed followups to interesting results of the initial sponsor often happens when the sponsor is not involved anymore. Researchers essentially either have to work for someone or come up with topics and then beg potentially-interested people for money. (aka research grants)
Academia being driven by money has less to do with academia and more with lack of money it needs to work on independent research.
You are assuming that everybody in this system is honest: researchers, funders, and companies. None of these entities need to be honest to do research or to come up with topics. This is a big fallacy with academic research: nobody needs to be honest or truthful, and as much as you like to believe they are, they have no reason to be honest. I have experienced this first hand during my PhD life.
> Researchers are normally happy to do important things and they have good ideas.
That's not how research works, however---at least not what I experienced. Usually a goal is the prerequisite of the funding. If that goal doesn't align up with the interest of the company/or the funder, there won't be any funding to begin with. That's a lie that researchers tell themselves, that they have the freedom to work on w/e they find amusing.
> Academia being driven by money has less to do with academia and more with lack of money it needs to work on independent research.
Sure. If academia was a utopia that wasn't so dependent on money (and fame), science would take over. That utopia isn't anywhere in sight, however. Try going through academic job market: a popular question you get is how you are going to bring money into the university. If you don't have a good answer, you won't get a position. As a professor, you will be spending 80%+ of your time writing grants or, as you put it, begging different companies for money. The other 20% is spent on classes and bureaucratic headaches. A good professor that I knew had a long rant on how she never gets to do research anymore (from a very well known university).
People twist words and data to make their point, get a publication, make a name for themselves, get more money, and repeat the cycle, all in the name of research and science.
My point isn't that the academic people as a whole are bad, but many of them are trying to survive and are willing to do w/e it takes to bring in money. It is very easy to abuse the bunch when people are trying to survive.
All I am suggesting is that you need to be critical when reading academic papers. Regardless of the content, topic, etc. read and decide for yourself---if it is a field that you are proficient in---or read opinions on counter points.
> Researchers are normally happy to do important things and they have good ideas.
That's not how research works, however---at least not what I experienced. Usually a goal is the prerequisite of the funding. If that goal doesn't align up with the interest of the company/or the funder, there won't be any funding to begin with. That's a lie that researchers tell themselves, that they have the freedom to work on w/e they find amusing.
> Academia being driven by money has less to do with academia and more with lack of money it needs to work on independent research.
Sure. If academia was a utopia that wasn't so dependent on money (and fame), science would take over. That utopia isn't anywhere in sight, however. Try going through academic job market: a popular question you get is how you are going to bring money into the university. If you don't have a good answer, you won't get a position. As a professor, you will be spending 80%+ of your time writing grants or, as you put it, begging different companies for money. The other 20% is spent on classes and bureaucratic headaches. A good professor that I knew had a long rant on how she never gets to do research anymore (from a very well known university).
People twist words and data to make their point, get a publication, make a name for themselves, get more money, and repeat the cycle, all in the name of research and science.
My point isn't that the academic people as a whole are bad, but many of them are trying to survive and are willing to do w/e it takes to bring in money. It is very easy to abuse the bunch when people are trying to survive.
All I am suggesting is that you need to be critical when reading academic papers. Regardless of the content, topic, etc. read and decide for yourself---if it is a field that you are proficient in---or read opinions on counter points.
> This is a big fallacy with academic research: nobody needs to be honest or truthful, and as much as you like to believe they are, they have no reason to be honest.
They don't have to be as long as others can verify their findings. At some point, mistakes and dishonesty should be treated the same way.
> Usually a goal is the prerequisite of the funding. If that goal doesn't align up with the interest of the company/or the funder, there won't be any funding to begin with.
I think we're very much in agreement. I just don't put that as academia's problem, but rather explicitly on how we fund it. A.k.a blame the game not the player.
They don't have to be as long as others can verify their findings. At some point, mistakes and dishonesty should be treated the same way.
> Usually a goal is the prerequisite of the funding. If that goal doesn't align up with the interest of the company/or the funder, there won't be any funding to begin with.
I think we're very much in agreement. I just don't put that as academia's problem, but rather explicitly on how we fund it. A.k.a blame the game not the player.
The tone and demeanor of this post reminds of antivaxxer propaganda. I wonder if there's a correlation.
Are there any rigorous studies proving aluminum adjuvants are safe? Have you ever looked into the research? Am I an “antivaxxer” for even asking this question? Would you consider me one if I told you I’d delved into the topic and concluded something other than what the government says? What if I was just hesitant to give the specific vaccines with aluminum adjuvants to infants?
I find that ysually people that use buzzwords like “antivaxxer” aren’t all that curious about the topic, and prefer to hide behind consensus opinion whilst castigating inquisitive people that look at the evidence themselves as ignorant and crazy.
I find that ysually people that use buzzwords like “antivaxxer” aren’t all that curious about the topic, and prefer to hide behind consensus opinion whilst castigating inquisitive people that look at the evidence themselves as ignorant and crazy.
Yeah what kind of deranged conspiracy theorists would think academia, the government, and giant corporations would join forces in lying to us about what makes us sick?
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...
Definitely not a cult.
Don't even start me on Uncle Rhabdo, a cartoon character that CrossFit used to say "if you weren't causing your body damage, you weren't working out hard enough". Rhabdomyolisis is a serious injury with potentially life threatening or life lasting consequences. The idea that a fitness fad would make light of it so astound me.
> Facebook’s news feeds are censored and crafted to reflect the political leanings of Facebook’s utopian socialists while remaining vulnerable to misinformation campaigns designed to stir up violence and prejudice.
Wat.
Wat.
> “millions of individual adherents“
Is Crossfit a cult? At first I thought the article was a parody or something
Is Crossfit a cult? At first I thought the article was a parody or something
It has become a cult. I personally have no problem with people lifting and motivating each other and CrossFit was originally quite good, especially the competitive athletes. But now a days it’s become a huge cult where it’s all about people motivating each other to see how many reps of a certain exercise a person can do while completely throwing the form out of the window. Couple of my friends are in sports medicine field and they tell me on how CrossFit has become a way to keep sports meds employed because it’s single handedly the most cases of sports injury in their clinic.
To be fair, the growing numbers of CrossFit athletes alone could describe the growing numbers of injuries. If e.g. 10x as many people do CrossFit than do handball, they will account for a majority of injuries.
Bodybuilding and powerlifting has been around for many years though and has more athletes than CrossFit. Powerlifting also uses a lot heavier weights but since the rules are extremely strict for form in competitive powerlifting, injuries are less common. Bodybuilding uses relatively lesser weights but focuses more on higher reps and symmetry for which you need good form. CrossFit tries to combine both - heavy weights and high reps which is a recipe for injury. Either do heavier weights and low reps or do relatively lighter weights and high reps. When they try to combine both, it leads to CrossFit type injuries. Add to that, your group of people yelling at you trying to motivate you into doing the 23rd rep on a poor back deadlift form and it gets even worse.
Maybe, but CF regularly uses for workout of the day an acronym that escapes me for now that is basically "until exhaustion" (possibly "amrap" - as many repetitions as possible). So many of those is going to make you susceptible to injury, especially with their "keep going" mentality.
AMRAP workouts are almost never executed "until exhaustion" - they are usually time-limited. There are other types of workouts which have increasing loads or repetitions until the athlete can't keep up - usually called "death by" (yes, it has "death" in the name, surely that means Crossfit is a death cult) - but those not exactly "until exhaustion" - at least not always, since if you can't lift the next weight in the line it doesn't mean you necessarily exhausted (though it may be). I don't see why this would be more prone to injury though - most workouts are meant to make you tired, and when you're tired, you may lose form, and when you lose form, you may be susceptible to injury, especially if you let your ego run away from you. That's where coach comes in and tells you to stop doing stupid, drop the weight and fix the form, or change the exercise.
[deleted]
Interesting, because there's no way crossfit the brand gets where it is today without FB and IG and it's millions of believers posting #crossfit #blessed #pump #cross #fit #getsum #etcetc. Having said that, maybe it's trying to avoid the masses of troll hashtags much like mine above....
Facebook = AOL + friendster and was founded by a someone who called his users dumb f*cks. What else can you expect from a company with this kind of DNA.
CrossFit talking about “corrupted nutritional science”. That’s rich.
Wow, I actually had no idea crossfit was an organization. I thought it was just a name for an activity, like calisthenics or something.
That's good they are disengaging from facebook. I was clueless that facebook had forums or community stuff. I always thought of forum users using fake handles, aliases, anything but their real identities. Hopefully they can bolster up their own site and provide an example for others.
That's good they are disengaging from facebook. I was clueless that facebook had forums or community stuff. I always thought of forum users using fake handles, aliases, anything but their real identities. Hopefully they can bolster up their own site and provide an example for others.
CrossFit is fucking bananas, as an "exercise" as well as a cult/religion. Not trying to sound defensive of facebook at all but holy shit, CrossFit is crazytown. The company, the idea, and the customers.
That you're getting downvoted means that people here don't know about CrossFit's history. (c.f.: the 'uncle rhabdo' shit from a few years ago http://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-rhabdomyolysis-... )
Wow, I enjoyed following their Instagram account and am sad to see it go, but good for them for making that decision.
There’s some ridiculous stuff going on where users come into a group, post bad stuff, then report the group. Boom, group deleted. Facebooks gotta do something about it...
Uh this is typical cultish reaction to being called out: accuse others of doing exactly what you yourself are doing.
I'd like to remind everyone here, in case you are considering crossfit, that several years ago they caused a rash of cases of rhabdomyolysis. So in response they created a clown character called "Uncle Rhabdo" which they attached to propaganda that tried to convince their members that this possibly fatal condition isn't serious. Seriously:
http://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-rhabdomyolysis-...
"There is a lively online community posting selfies from hospital and who consider a rhabdo diagnosis as a badge of honour, showing their dedication to exercise."
I'd like to remind everyone here, in case you are considering crossfit, that several years ago they caused a rash of cases of rhabdomyolysis. So in response they created a clown character called "Uncle Rhabdo" which they attached to propaganda that tried to convince their members that this possibly fatal condition isn't serious. Seriously:
http://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-rhabdomyolysis-...
"There is a lively online community posting selfies from hospital and who consider a rhabdo diagnosis as a badge of honour, showing their dedication to exercise."
Did CrossFit for 5 years and a shoulder surgery. During that time I visited about 30 gyms all over the US. At no point did I ever see rhabdo treated as anything but a serious concern. There was a gym somewhere that did that Uncle Rhabdo stuff but it’s inaccurate to act as though that is or was the prevailing attitude in CrossFit.
I have several issues with CF but this idea that rhabdo is glorified is not true.
I have several issues with CF but this idea that rhabdo is glorified is not true.
Been doing Crossfit since December.
Had to sign a pretty sensible waiver upon joining.
There was a section describing the symptoms of rhabdo, letting me know in NO uncertain terms that it was a potentially fatal medical emergency. Honestly, I'd never heard of it before reading that waiver. Rather than encouraging me to experience rhabo, Crossfit gave me some crucial warnings there!
Safety's a big deal at the Crossfit gym I go to. I'm out of shape and the instructors pay special attention (and suggest reduced/modified versions of exercises) to make things work for me.
Imagine two violin students comparing their painful callouses. Or software engineers exchanging horror stories about late-night debugging battles with Internet Explorer 6 or talking about screwups where they accidentally deleted some live data. Or firefighters comparing all the scars they've accumulated over the years.
Athletes are no different. Shit happens, sometimes you get hurt and then you laugh about it because it's all part of the journey. That's how you get through it. Screwed up my ankle playing tennis the other week. First thing I did was share it with my fellow tennis buds. We help each other and share the pain and laugh.
I don't want to stereotype Hacker News readers, because a lot of engineer-types do enjoy sports and exercise, but I would imagine there are a lot of HN readers who would have a hard time understanding athletes laughing about their injuries since they've never been there. Just like a pro football player might not be able to understand how/why HN readers willingly spend those late nights hunched over a keyboard. For those of us who straddle both worlds, it's kind of funny, because we know the folks living in those worlds aren't nearly as different from their counterparts as they think they are.
Had to sign a pretty sensible waiver upon joining.
There was a section describing the symptoms of rhabdo, letting me know in NO uncertain terms that it was a potentially fatal medical emergency. Honestly, I'd never heard of it before reading that waiver. Rather than encouraging me to experience rhabo, Crossfit gave me some crucial warnings there!
Safety's a big deal at the Crossfit gym I go to. I'm out of shape and the instructors pay special attention (and suggest reduced/modified versions of exercises) to make things work for me.
"There is a lively online community posting selfies
from hospital and who consider a rhabdo diagnosis as
a badge of honour, showing their dedication to exercise."
Imagine two violin students comparing their painful callouses. Or software engineers exchanging horror stories about late-night debugging battles with Internet Explorer 6 or talking about screwups where they accidentally deleted some live data. Or firefighters comparing all the scars they've accumulated over the years.
Athletes are no different. Shit happens, sometimes you get hurt and then you laugh about it because it's all part of the journey. That's how you get through it. Screwed up my ankle playing tennis the other week. First thing I did was share it with my fellow tennis buds. We help each other and share the pain and laugh.
I don't want to stereotype Hacker News readers, because a lot of engineer-types do enjoy sports and exercise, but I would imagine there are a lot of HN readers who would have a hard time understanding athletes laughing about their injuries since they've never been there. Just like a pro football player might not be able to understand how/why HN readers willingly spend those late nights hunched over a keyboard. For those of us who straddle both worlds, it's kind of funny, because we know the folks living in those worlds aren't nearly as different from their counterparts as they think they are.
I imagine some journalists may read some HN threads about mistakes people make on the job and all kinds of "rm -fr /" scenarios one has been part of, and then write an article about how IT people are so insane that they glorify wanton destruction of systems they are entrusted to maintain and how this "devops" cult is evil because of it.
> created a clown character called "Uncle Rhabdo" which they attached to propaganda that tried to convince their members that this possibly fatal condition isn't serious
This is plain false. Here's the article by Glassman: http://journal.crossfit.com/2005/10/crossfit-induced-rhabdo-...
It does not claim the condition is not serious. It states plainly, I quote "a potentially lethal systemic meltdown" and "It can disable, maim, and even kill.". Yes, it also has a clown picture - if one can't take a bit of dark humor along with a serious topic maybe one should limit oneself to reading young adult fiction about vampire romance for now and wait until one can.
> There is a lively online community posting selfies from hospital
I've been doing crossfit for years. I've been reading social media from people in our gym and other gyms. Not once I've even heard or know anybody who heard about anybody who was posting selfies from hospital as a badge of honor. I do not deny, maybe there are people like that - there are 350 million people in US, and whatever form of crazy you can think of, there's probably a hundred people that have it. You can probably find two or three of them if you look hard enough. But presenting it as if it's a typical occurrence and in any way characterizes what happens in a typical crossfit gym is either profoundly ignorant if one never been in one (and they why write about it?) or profoundly dishonest if one have been.
I'm not trying to propagandize anything - it works for me, but if it doesn't work for you, there's absolutely no problem with that. But heading this rhabdo baloney dug up again and again is just plain stupid. It's ok to not like any system or movement or hipster fad or whatever you call it, doesn't matter - if it's not your thing, fine, no problem at all. But one doesn't have to recycle old stupid myths again and again to do it.
This is plain false. Here's the article by Glassman: http://journal.crossfit.com/2005/10/crossfit-induced-rhabdo-...
It does not claim the condition is not serious. It states plainly, I quote "a potentially lethal systemic meltdown" and "It can disable, maim, and even kill.". Yes, it also has a clown picture - if one can't take a bit of dark humor along with a serious topic maybe one should limit oneself to reading young adult fiction about vampire romance for now and wait until one can.
> There is a lively online community posting selfies from hospital
I've been doing crossfit for years. I've been reading social media from people in our gym and other gyms. Not once I've even heard or know anybody who heard about anybody who was posting selfies from hospital as a badge of honor. I do not deny, maybe there are people like that - there are 350 million people in US, and whatever form of crazy you can think of, there's probably a hundred people that have it. You can probably find two or three of them if you look hard enough. But presenting it as if it's a typical occurrence and in any way characterizes what happens in a typical crossfit gym is either profoundly ignorant if one never been in one (and they why write about it?) or profoundly dishonest if one have been.
I'm not trying to propagandize anything - it works for me, but if it doesn't work for you, there's absolutely no problem with that. But heading this rhabdo baloney dug up again and again is just plain stupid. It's ok to not like any system or movement or hipster fad or whatever you call it, doesn't matter - if it's not your thing, fine, no problem at all. But one doesn't have to recycle old stupid myths again and again to do it.
While many aspects of CrossFit are bad (well mainly doing weight lifting against time constraint) there is nothing special about CrossFit that causes rhabdomyolysis. As long as you listen to your body and don't start by pressing gas peddle straight to floor it is fine.
I do not actively participate in CrossFit, but sometimes I add some CrossFit-like sets into my training.
I do not actively participate in CrossFit, but sometimes I add some CrossFit-like sets into my training.
Pretending CrossFit is just a collection of exercise ignores reality. It's also a culture and that culture is what creates the conditions under which people get rhabdo.
Is there some stats on how many cases there are? Because I suspect it isn’t that high. Part of all strength sports is pushing each other, but like with every hobby there are people who take it too far
Is Crossfit unilaterally banning groups from their platform? Your first paragraph is completely incoherent.
As for your Rhabdo claims, I’ve was hearing this same crap when I started CrossFit in high school nearly a decade ago. In all my time doing CrossFit I never saw anybody get or try to get Rhabdo. Iirc Crossfit is a loose organization with many affiliates of varying quality. Sure some group of shitheads were shitheads, so what? One time a Burger King employee was mean to me...
As for your Rhabdo claims, I’ve was hearing this same crap when I started CrossFit in high school nearly a decade ago. In all my time doing CrossFit I never saw anybody get or try to get Rhabdo. Iirc Crossfit is a loose organization with many affiliates of varying quality. Sure some group of shitheads were shitheads, so what? One time a Burger King employee was mean to me...
You're saying they're leaving Facebook now because of the rhabdo stuff several years ago?
Not at all. I'm trying to say that the mentality that would lead an organization to publish something that says
> The voluntary CrossFit community of 15,000 affiliates and millions of individual adherents stands steadfastly and often alone against an unholy alliance of academia, government, and multinational food, beverage, and pharmaceutical companies.
has always existed in this organization.
> The voluntary CrossFit community of 15,000 affiliates and millions of individual adherents stands steadfastly and often alone against an unholy alliance of academia, government, and multinational food, beverage, and pharmaceutical companies.
has always existed in this organization.
The Uncle Rhabdo clown there looks scary as hell
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Actions like this are an annoying distraction. Crossfit HQ is kind of a nuthouse. The Crossfit program is truly wonderful as long as you always use proper form. If you can't use proper form on a rep, don't do the rep. It's that simple. I have been doing Crossfit for a year and haven't seen any significant injuries. But my gym emphasizes proper form over numbers. Some gyms ensure people use proper form, some don't. Crossfit (done properly) is leagues better for your overall health than weightlifting, running, bicycling, you name it. It is not necessarily more fun however.
> If you can't use proper form on a rep, don't do the rep. It's that simple.
This is sorta disingenuous. A layman can't tell if they're doing an exercise correctly without instruction, and you can do something correctly 99 times and still becomes seriously injured by doing it incorrectly one more time. I'm not trying to make an argument that you shouldn't exercise but it's definitely not "simple."
This is sorta disingenuous. A layman can't tell if they're doing an exercise correctly without instruction, and you can do something correctly 99 times and still becomes seriously injured by doing it incorrectly one more time. I'm not trying to make an argument that you shouldn't exercise but it's definitely not "simple."
It is not disingenuous. Many crossfit exercises are complex as you correctly observe and require a good bit of practice before you can do them w/ any substantial weight.
A layman should not do them w/out instruction and a good coach will not let laymen do regular workouts until they have mastered the basics.
A good coach also observes a new student's abilities and advises them how to scale the movement properly as they progress. A bad coach does not.
for the same reasons, you should never attempt Olympic weightlifting movements w/out a coach, i.e. snatch and clean+jerk. In fact, I feel pretty strongly you should not learn how to squat or deadlift w/out a coach or personal trainer.
A layman should not do them w/out instruction and a good coach will not let laymen do regular workouts until they have mastered the basics.
A good coach also observes a new student's abilities and advises them how to scale the movement properly as they progress. A bad coach does not.
for the same reasons, you should never attempt Olympic weightlifting movements w/out a coach, i.e. snatch and clean+jerk. In fact, I feel pretty strongly you should not learn how to squat or deadlift w/out a coach or personal trainer.
I did CrossFit for 5 years and a shoulder surgery and visited about 30 gyms during that time. What you’re saying isn’t disingenuous but it’s thoroughly idealized and unrealistic.
Workouts with high volumes of technical movements are regularly programmed. RFT workouts with 60 snatches. High volumes of kipping pull-ups. Form goes to shit when you get tired, period, whether you are running or snatching, but being on a clock does not lend itself to slowing down, setting up right, and doing a technical movement with good form. It’s completely antithetical to it.
The coaching quality at CF gyms is widely varied and in my experience most of the folks regardless of their great intentions have no business coaching that many people doing that many complex movements.
There are much safer ways CF could be doing things. Ditch snatches and kipping pull-ups for a start. Snatches are dangerous when done improperly and kipping pull-ups are specifically bad for shoulder joints in individuals who have not built up enough strength to do several strict pullups.
Workouts with high volumes of technical movements are regularly programmed. RFT workouts with 60 snatches. High volumes of kipping pull-ups. Form goes to shit when you get tired, period, whether you are running or snatching, but being on a clock does not lend itself to slowing down, setting up right, and doing a technical movement with good form. It’s completely antithetical to it.
The coaching quality at CF gyms is widely varied and in my experience most of the folks regardless of their great intentions have no business coaching that many people doing that many complex movements.
There are much safer ways CF could be doing things. Ditch snatches and kipping pull-ups for a start. Snatches are dangerous when done improperly and kipping pull-ups are specifically bad for shoulder joints in individuals who have not built up enough strength to do several strict pullups.
I agree w/ you on both the snatches and the kipping pullups.
they both have too high a risk to reward imo.
i also agree that many coaches are terrible.
i also agree that many coaches are terrible.
I tried to get in to CrossFit. Checked out a few gyms and they all basically followed the same "come to a workout or two and see how great you feel, then sign up!" process for newcomers. One-on-one oversight and training came later. Since I had no idea how to do the exercises, I nope'd right out of there.
> Crossfit (done properly) is leagues better for your overall health than weightlifting, running, bicycling, you name it.
Says who? Links, please.
Says who? Links, please.
My own experience doing all three.
N=1, as someone would say. I asked because if there are real and evident health benefits i expect it to be documented somewhere.
And considering that crossfit isn't anything substantially different that things available in other disciplines (weightlifting, etc...), i don't expect it to be substantially different even in the outcomes.
And considering that crossfit isn't anything substantially different that things available in other disciplines (weightlifting, etc...), i don't expect it to be substantially different even in the outcomes.
I'm somewhat shocked seeing almost the entire HN commentariat more upset at CrossFit then they are at Facebook.
If I were to weigh the two companies and their potential harm that can be done to society, globally, Facebook breaks the scale.
Is it really a big surprise to see CrossFit, a company run by people, to come to similar conclusions that inspired things like #DeleteFacebook?
Addendum: I guess the flood of downvotes on this is similarly unsurprising. HN will defend to the death Facebook's private property rights, while absolutely slamming a CrossFit'ers rights to do what they want with their own body. Wait a second, I thought this place skewed Progressive politically... ...I smell a hypocrisy.
If I were to weigh the two companies and their potential harm that can be done to society, globally, Facebook breaks the scale.
Is it really a big surprise to see CrossFit, a company run by people, to come to similar conclusions that inspired things like #DeleteFacebook?
Addendum: I guess the flood of downvotes on this is similarly unsurprising. HN will defend to the death Facebook's private property rights, while absolutely slamming a CrossFit'ers rights to do what they want with their own body. Wait a second, I thought this place skewed Progressive politically... ...I smell a hypocrisy.
> 2. Facebook collaborates with government security agencies on massive citizen surveillance programs such as PRISM.
It's slightly weird to only find this an issue _after_ your Facebook page with 1.65m fans has been deleted.
The tone of this piece comes over as really off and aggressive generally.
It's slightly weird to only find this an issue _after_ your Facebook page with 1.65m fans has been deleted.
The tone of this piece comes over as really off and aggressive generally.
Is it though? I've seen the same thing played out before in other contexts. Someone being abused/taken advantage off, but making lots of money, so they keep their mouth shut. Once they get fired / stop being profitable, they're free to call out what bugged them.
"The voluntary CrossFit community of 15,000 affiliates and millions of individual adherents stands steadfastly and often alone against an unholy alliance of academia, government, and multinational food, beverage, and pharmaceutical companies."
Paranoid much? Or perhaps it is Crossfit that gets it wrong?
Paranoid much? Or perhaps it is Crossfit that gets it wrong?
It’s part of their battle against sugar and type 2 diabetes.
I've been doing Crossfit since December and wow.
That manifesto I just read there was pretty scary and cult-like, complete with totally off-topic jabs at socialism and uh, science?.
I'm having a hard time reconciling that with what my wife and I have experienced at our local Crossfit gym, which has been among the most supportive and pressure-free experiences I've ever had in my life.
To be honest, nobody's ever even mentioned diet to me there and I'm pretty overweight. The Crossfit diet seems to be low-carb, high-protein, high-vegetable which frankly is very sensible and not exactly extreme.
One thing I'd been warned about before doing Crossfit was that they don't always teach proper form for weighted exercises and that therefore there's an injury risk. I've been very wary about that. But the instructors at my gym are super responsive and proactive when it comes to my form. High marks there.
As others have said, Crossfit gyms are independently operated. Culture is going to vary by gym. I suspect (like anything else) the gyms that garner the most attention are the ones that are kinda on the fringe and not the majority where you go do fun/grueling workouts with a supportive community.
That manifesto I just read there was pretty scary and cult-like, complete with totally off-topic jabs at socialism and uh, science?.
I'm having a hard time reconciling that with what my wife and I have experienced at our local Crossfit gym, which has been among the most supportive and pressure-free experiences I've ever had in my life.
To be honest, nobody's ever even mentioned diet to me there and I'm pretty overweight. The Crossfit diet seems to be low-carb, high-protein, high-vegetable which frankly is very sensible and not exactly extreme.
One thing I'd been warned about before doing Crossfit was that they don't always teach proper form for weighted exercises and that therefore there's an injury risk. I've been very wary about that. But the instructors at my gym are super responsive and proactive when it comes to my form. High marks there.
As others have said, Crossfit gyms are independently operated. Culture is going to vary by gym. I suspect (like anything else) the gyms that garner the most attention are the ones that are kinda on the fringe and not the majority where you go do fun/grueling workouts with a supportive community.
This is exactly my experience.
First, CrossFit is sort of presenting FB as a public health threat. Obviously it is, but I don’t hear a lot of entities make that argument.
Second, CrossFit is doing a role reversal, saying that they will place FB under review, they will decide if FB is an appropriate platform for them. In a way, they’re assuming a dominating position (yes everyone knows FB is bigger/stronger, but you can still scare bears off by shouting and looking large, and even weaker players can find upper hands or shift position). That’s a strange take on receiving FB’s perceived abuse that I have not observed before.