My MacBook Pro exploded and burst into flames(reddit.com)
reddit.com
My MacBook Pro exploded and burst into flames
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/bulbhv/my_macbook_pro_exploded_and_burst_into_flames/
216 comments
>the 2018 one I have right now since they can't be opened with a screwdriver and the internal SSD is soldered.
I'm going a little offtopic, but I cannot believe this. I haven't owned a Mac since having a 2010 MBP (which I loved dearly for 6 years), but I cannot imagine owning a laptop that doesn't allow me to switch the internal drive. It was annoying enough with all of the screws on the 2010 model.
I'm sure there is some justification is for this beyond "we want you to buy a new one if something goes wrong", but I'm coming up blank.
I'm going a little offtopic, but I cannot believe this. I haven't owned a Mac since having a 2010 MBP (which I loved dearly for 6 years), but I cannot imagine owning a laptop that doesn't allow me to switch the internal drive. It was annoying enough with all of the screws on the 2010 model.
I'm sure there is some justification is for this beyond "we want you to buy a new one if something goes wrong", but I'm coming up blank.
A little more off-topic but my work laptop is a Panasonic toughbook (CF-C2), and I was impressed to find that I could swap-out the storage drive with my bare hands (no tool!). That was pretty cool. You just unlock the tray holding the drive, pull it, unplug the drive from it, plug the new one in, and push the tray back in. Super simple.
The arguments around why laptops are becoming less and less modular are usually that having mechanisms to attach and detach these parts take space, and so if people want thinner and thinner laptops, they need to remove these mechanisms. Personally, though, I can't see why I'd want a thinner laptop. The toughbook is thick, even by pre-ultrabook standards, but it's still very, very comfortable.
The arguments around why laptops are becoming less and less modular are usually that having mechanisms to attach and detach these parts take space, and so if people want thinner and thinner laptops, they need to remove these mechanisms. Personally, though, I can't see why I'd want a thinner laptop. The toughbook is thick, even by pre-ultrabook standards, but it's still very, very comfortable.
> I cannot imagine owning a laptop that doesn't allow me to switch the internal drive.
+1. One of the (many) reasons I'll never own a Mac.
+1. One of the (many) reasons I'll never own a Mac.
I have a tiny usb-c 1TB M.2 external HD and a Mega sync service running 24/7 which backs up all of my important files. Plus I've got various 'MacOS bootstrapping' ZSH scripts which install a hundred different Homebrew packages and other configs, which I built up over a couple yrs and across ~5-6 Macbook fresh installs.
I could get a new Macbook pro rolling within an hour of work and have it 99.9% the same as my current one. Which has happened often enough for me in my job as I always get Macbook Pros from my work or upgrades them. That wouldn't be any different if they gave me new PC laptops where I'd prefer to do a fresh install of Archlinux every time for security reasons instead of dragging around some M.2 chip for years.
I could get a new Macbook pro rolling within an hour of work and have it 99.9% the same as my current one. Which has happened often enough for me in my job as I always get Macbook Pros from my work or upgrades them. That wouldn't be any different if they gave me new PC laptops where I'd prefer to do a fresh install of Archlinux every time for security reasons instead of dragging around some M.2 chip for years.
The missing 0.1% is usually the most painful and the time it takes to update sucks. I love my mac but it has a long way until it improves this.
Ideally I should be able to swap the SSD and have it working 100% (besides a few software that fingerprints your machine for licensing reasons and it's another pain) in a couple of minutes, or have the machine replicated 100% (with no update process or whatsoever afterwards - besides perhaps things stored in the secure enclave) in half an hour...
Ideally I should be able to swap the SSD and have it working 100% (besides a few software that fingerprints your machine for licensing reasons and it's another pain) in a couple of minutes, or have the machine replicated 100% (with no update process or whatsoever afterwards - besides perhaps things stored in the secure enclave) in half an hour...
I’m getting closer and closer filling that 0.1% every time I get a new macbook. But you are correct. The tiny differences are annoying. Fortunately they are almost always automatable to fix via a shell script.
It’s been genuinely worth the effort to make these 4-5 scripts.
It’s been genuinely worth the effort to make these 4-5 scripts.
Me too. I used to use Linux before and anytime I'd move to a new computer I'd decide whether I should swap the hardware or do
df to list devices, then: dd if=/dev/a of=/dev/b
if I decided to migrate to the new storage device.
Either way, I could do it in about 3min and go do something else. When I was back, everything would be ready.
And back in the FileVault 1 days, I discovered [almost the hard way] that my machine wasn't backing up properly because I was not logging out my user account (and you had to). Since this experience, I'm always suspicious of Apple's approach to backing up data (and data resilience - admittedly due to some other factors involving weird interactions between iPhoto and Flickr).
df to list devices, then: dd if=/dev/a of=/dev/b
if I decided to migrate to the new storage device.
Either way, I could do it in about 3min and go do something else. When I was back, everything would be ready.
And back in the FileVault 1 days, I discovered [almost the hard way] that my machine wasn't backing up properly because I was not logging out my user account (and you had to). Since this experience, I'm always suspicious of Apple's approach to backing up data (and data resilience - admittedly due to some other factors involving weird interactions between iPhoto and Flickr).
I don't want to minimize the work you've done with your scripts, but perhaps you don't know that all of that can easily be accomplished with TimeMachine.
From your new mac, during initial setup select "Restore from TimeMachine" and you are back in business as soon as the data is transferred back.
From your new mac, during initial setup select "Restore from TimeMachine" and you are back in business as soon as the data is transferred back.
This is a key factor for me not getting a mac. Not so much that I couldn't swap the hard drive, but that I couldn't recover data if the motherboard goes bad.
And the keyboard.
And the keyboard.
> but that I couldn't recover data if the motherboard goes bad.
Perhaps it goes without saying: If you don't back up your data you can lose it at any time for any reason.
Perhaps it goes without saying: If you don't back up your data you can lose it at any time for any reason.
>I'm sure there is some justification is for this beyond "we want you to buy a new one if something goes wrong", but I'm coming up blank.
"We want you to use our cloud storage for all data storage, and our cloud services for all application use."
"We want you to use our cloud storage for all data storage, and our cloud services for all application use."
They can be opened with a pentalobe screwdriver.
The 2018 MBPs also have a T2 security chip now, which intermediates all access to the drive. It has internal unremovable encryption keys which are paired with the drive, so even if you could move the drive to another machine, the data on it would be useless anyway.
Your data should never be held on the internal drive for more than a few seconds really. With a decent MDM solution, restoring the standard settings and applications should take no more than a few minutes. As such, in modern times, there should be no real use-case for moving the drive - just set up a new machine instead, more like the Chromebook way of thinking.
The 2018 MBPs also have a T2 security chip now, which intermediates all access to the drive. It has internal unremovable encryption keys which are paired with the drive, so even if you could move the drive to another machine, the data on it would be useless anyway.
Your data should never be held on the internal drive for more than a few seconds really. With a decent MDM solution, restoring the standard settings and applications should take no more than a few minutes. As such, in modern times, there should be no real use-case for moving the drive - just set up a new machine instead, more like the Chromebook way of thinking.
Yes... soldered RAM, hard drive and everything into a pricy motherboard so if any of the cheaper components fail, you can pay for a whole new motherboard.
Simply not true. The ssd can be removed / swapped. Only the ram is soldered.
Huh? The SSD has been soldered on the MacBook Pro since the 2018 version afaik.
writing this on an ancient macbook air, on my 3rd self installed battery. I have a battery swelling damaged but still working trackpad. Can't bring myself to buy a new Macbook if it's not upgradeable...Apple you need to fix this with a user upgradeable model
Yeah, you need a 2012 Macbook. Get the best CPU possible, add a cheap SSD, max the RAM
Yes it is a workhorse for me, still running strong though. would be great if more memory and SSD that could be removed. My worry is when the current SSD dies.
Other than the GPU on the 2012's will randomly fail with no other fix than to disable the discrete GPU via firmware hacks.
The 2012 13” at least didnt have a discrete gpu (iirc earlier years did).
MacBook Air (13-inch, Late 2010)!
Really old but still servicable. For the last 5 years no Apple product has enticed me like they used to...
I'm sitting here typing this response on a 2016 MBP (the first gen with the butterfly keyboard and touchbar). Due to some thermal issues, I unscrewed the cover to blow the dust out and discovered my batteries are all swelling. Yikes. I wonder if there's a follow-on recall in a year or so for this generation. I bought a battery replace kit from ifixit so I might kick the can down the road for a bit longer, time will tell.
More broadly thinking though, Unix/BSD underpinnings OS, driver support, and hardware that sacrificed thin/light for components that were reliable and some DIY capability? I kid can dream
More broadly thinking though, Unix/BSD underpinnings OS, driver support, and hardware that sacrificed thin/light for components that were reliable and some DIY capability? I kid can dream
There's a recall on now according to Reuters.
Apple recalls certain older MacBook Pro units
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1TL2BW
Apple recalls certain older MacBook Pro units
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1TL2BW
The model is "MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)"
and here is the link to check your serial number: https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall
I have this model and my Macbooks serial number is not "eligible". Let's hope for the best... :'(
and here is the link to check your serial number: https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall
I have this model and my Macbooks serial number is not "eligible". Let's hope for the best... :'(
I've seen dozens of comments over the last 24 hours saying that people have swelling batteries but their serial number is not covered. I would hope for a more comprehensive recall soon since these issues just keep popping up.
I'm one of them, and I'm a 2018 model! My serial number is not covered. The best part is since I live in Central America there is no apple store here, and the official resellers told me I must take it to the USA where I bought it. The last apple product I will ever buy.
the official resellers told me I must take it to the USA where I bought it.
This is such a common policy that it's a surprise to me when it's not the case. There's even a term for it: a "grey market" product, meaning a product intended for sale in one region/country, but shipped to another. Warranties are often a dodgy proposition in these cases.
My advice to anyone buying a product in another country that may need warranty service: check the manufacturer's policies before buying. Can you use the regular service network(s) in your country, or will you need to ship the product for service? To where? Will you have warranty coverage at all? In some cases, as the parent noted, policy may depend on your regional distributor rather than the manufacturer.
This is such a common policy that it's a surprise to me when it's not the case. There's even a term for it: a "grey market" product, meaning a product intended for sale in one region/country, but shipped to another. Warranties are often a dodgy proposition in these cases.
My advice to anyone buying a product in another country that may need warranty service: check the manufacturer's policies before buying. Can you use the regular service network(s) in your country, or will you need to ship the product for service? To where? Will you have warranty coverage at all? In some cases, as the parent noted, policy may depend on your regional distributor rather than the manufacturer.
My own claims to be eligible, so I guess I'll be sending it away to Apple camp for a couple weeks. Luckily I don't rely upon it for anything critical. I would imagine if yours says its not eligible that it probably isn't affected... or at least, it's affected but they don't yet fear the legal repercussions enough to offer free battery replacements for your model yet...
If you're in the EU you have quite a lot of rights when it comes to repair, it's worth looking into.
I think the swollen batteries are quite common in the MacBook Pros. Seems to be plenty of reports on the net. Typically people seem to notice this when the trackpad or keyboard starts acting funny.
Not sure if Apple even considers that as a defect or if it is just the way some of the batteries are expected to behave when they get old.
Not sure if Apple even considers that as a defect or if it is just the way some of the batteries are expected to behave when they get old.
I think old battery packs (and new ones for larger laptops) were generally cylindrical cells, and the new ones are flat packs which do seem to have more issues with mechanical problems (like Samsung's phones a few years ago) which cause swelling.
I have a new-ish Dell laptop, and its battery spontaneously started bulging. It was right after I took it away from my desk after many weeks of sitting on the charging dock. First I thought I had accidentally cracked it open, pushed it back together, and a couple minutes later it cracked open again on its own.
Fortunately this was a "work" computer, the IT crew fixed it in a jiffy. But I wonder if it uses a similar type of battery, looked like a thin black pillow when the tech took it apart.
Fortunately this was a "work" computer, the IT crew fixed it in a jiffy. But I wonder if it uses a similar type of battery, looked like a thin black pillow when the tech took it apart.
Which is really odd that I have never experienced or seen it in the older laptops. Perhaps it's a fairly new thing in the increasingly common thin form factor (Apple or otherwise but I haven't heard much of others).
Older laptops left space for the batteries so they could swell slightly without damaging the laptop. Apple's design leaves no such space.
Are Apple using cylindrical cells or pouches? Cylindrical cells doesn't swell in the same way and have pressure cap before they crack the shell. Pouches probably has to swell abit before their cap pop.
Happened to my 2013 one this year with half the trackpad not clicking and the fans spinning crazy loud.
I ended up paying apple $300 to fix it which at the time annoyed me but they ended up replacing the battery, fans, trackpad, case, keyboard, and potentially even the monitor so it felt brand new when I got it back which was nice.
Everything but the logic board, I guess? That's pretty nice
They told us that it’s caused by running it off of the charger exclusively 24/7 instead of using it like a loptop with full drain and charge cycles. 4 of our 2015 models swelled out of 4
Yep, I have 3 older models with swollen batteries.
I do think it's interesting that the quality of the MBP have fallen so much. Obviously, they have improved specs, but my 2013 MBP is still going strong.
I am kinda nervous about the battery swelling; maybe I should open it up and take a look.
I am kinda nervous about the battery swelling; maybe I should open it up and take a look.
I also have a 2013 MBP that I use all the time, and it's slowly starting to show its age. I want to upgrade it, but I'm honestly lost as to what model to update it with. I've heard all sorts of bad things about the new MBPs. Does anyone know what Mac laptop I should buy?
I have a mid-2015 Retina MBP I'd be willing to part with... i7 2.2GHz, 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD. Fair warning... there's apparently a battery recall active for this model. It is, however, commonly referred to as "the last good one", just prior to the touchbar and butterfly switch keys.
To be fair, my 2011 MPB’s battery swelled. I think the securing screws were stripped during installation, and I couldn’t even replace the battery myself.
I think this just happens sometimes. I have a 2008 Macbook Pro (first 15" "unibody" model) and its user-replaceable battery pack started swelling after it got pretty old. I took it to the Apple Store and they said it's not uncommon for old batteries. I bought a new one, handed them the old one, and was on my way.
Watch Louis Rossman on YT, he pokes his finger in Apple's eye constantly.
What's most unfortunate is that millions of professionals want and need solid computers to do their work on. This is why we went to Apple from the horrible PC experience. Both Windows and the laptops from Dell and IBM weren't holding up because "made in China." Now Apple has chintzed out in a big way.
I'm typing this from a 2018MBP. The keyboard sucks, I barely use it. My company has hundreds of these in service and the failure rate of keyboards is quite high. One of my colleagues is on his 3rd unit in just under a year and we quip that he should torture test these things for Apple. Have seen numerous motherboard failures, odd issues with the screens, and a couple of bricked units. The battery thing has not happened to anyone I know personally.
I have had zero problems with this current one, but a 2016 model I had in 2017 had to be repaired, it just completely died.
The dongles are a plague. I have one attached to the back of my screen with velcro so that when I go to meetings I can hook up to the A/V equipment without having to run back across the building to get the damn part that should just be part of the whole computer.
What's most unfortunate is that millions of professionals want and need solid computers to do their work on. This is why we went to Apple from the horrible PC experience. Both Windows and the laptops from Dell and IBM weren't holding up because "made in China." Now Apple has chintzed out in a big way.
I'm typing this from a 2018MBP. The keyboard sucks, I barely use it. My company has hundreds of these in service and the failure rate of keyboards is quite high. One of my colleagues is on his 3rd unit in just under a year and we quip that he should torture test these things for Apple. Have seen numerous motherboard failures, odd issues with the screens, and a couple of bricked units. The battery thing has not happened to anyone I know personally.
I have had zero problems with this current one, but a 2016 model I had in 2017 had to be repaired, it just completely died.
The dongles are a plague. I have one attached to the back of my screen with velcro so that when I go to meetings I can hook up to the A/V equipment without having to run back across the building to get the damn part that should just be part of the whole computer.
[deleted]
And Apple just announced the battery recall https://www.macrumors.com/2019/06/20/apple-2015-macbook-pro-...
It’ll be interesting to compare the public reception of this incident versus the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 event, especially given Apple’s PR prowess. Seems like a similar sort of incident, though maybe even rarer to actually encounter given how old the laptops are now.
The difference here is a single (known) instance of a 4 year old product vs widespread issues with a brand new one on release.
Well, I think it's more likely that the fact that it's a notebook will make this less of a PR issue. HN is kind of a unique place, but out in reality land the set of people who take their 15" notebook with them everywhere, including the airplane, is much smaller than the number of people who take their phones with them everywhere. So it's hard to capture the public imagination with a notebook.
Apple releasing a new phone is an event not only for a lot of developers, but also for your average teeny bopper and housewife.
Apple releasing a brand new laptop is just...
not.
Apple releasing a new phone is an event not only for a lot of developers, but also for your average teeny bopper and housewife.
Apple releasing a brand new laptop is just...
not.
Also, most people aren't going to grab a camera and start filming when their laptop catches fire in their house so they can post it to the internet. That limits the number of videos like this you'd expect compared to a similar smartphone fault, which is more likely to happen in public with other people standing around idle that might film it. I'd venture a guess that this is very far from being the first such fault in four years, especially given how willing Apple was to announce a recall.
If your smartphone catches fire, in a lot of cases your camera just caught fire!
Also, I don't keep my laptop in my front pocket, inches from my groin.
I suspect that was at least part of the emotional response in the Samsung incident.
I suspect that was at least part of the emotional response in the Samsung incident.
Also, I think the fact that Samsung's first fix turned out to not fix the issue at all help blow the problem up from embarrassing launch snafu to major fail.
All we know is that there's one incident, and now there is a recall. If there was no endemic issue, there should not reasonably be a recall; there's been handfuls of stories about iPhones burning up that have not ended up resulting in recalls, presumably because they're isolated issues.
I don't actually know how many Note 7's burnt up before they recalled, but I don't think it was ever very many. The main difference in this case is whatever issue exists, it was relatively benign for at least four years, which I agree hints that the issue is far less severe. But of course, no less dangerous.
I don't actually know how many Note 7's burnt up before they recalled, but I don't think it was ever very many. The main difference in this case is whatever issue exists, it was relatively benign for at least four years, which I agree hints that the issue is far less severe. But of course, no less dangerous.
I just replaced battery myself last year because it swollen to really nasty size. It prevented touchpad from working. And the laptop didn't rest on its legs when it was on flat surface.
Same model.
Same model.
That recall is for a different model than OP’s.
My desktop caught fire once. I pulled the plug and the fire went out. Turns out the graphics card burst into flames. That had never happened to me before in 40 years of desktops.
I had a fair amount of smoke damage that needed cleaning up.
Now it sits on a piece of sheet steel instead of the wood floor.
Edit: I usually assemble my desktop cases from mail order parts. This desktop happened to have a metal case rather than a plastic one - my future builds will all be metal cases.
I had a fair amount of smoke damage that needed cleaning up.
Now it sits on a piece of sheet steel instead of the wood floor.
Edit: I usually assemble my desktop cases from mail order parts. This desktop happened to have a metal case rather than a plastic one - my future builds will all be metal cases.
Well, they did warn you https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fak1.ostkcdn...
I had this happen once too. Was upgrading my machine. Swapped out the case, the motherboard, upgraded the fans and upgraded the CPU heatsink. Plugged it in and all 4 3TB WD Green drives were on fire within seconds and my PSU was smoking. After getting it under control, none of the hard drives nor the SSD would power on any more, my PSU was shot, my motherboard had scorchmarks, and one of the new fans no longer worked. I was only able to save the GPU, the heatsink, memory, fans minus the one, CPU, and the blu-ray drive.
I never figured out for sure, but I think I shorted out my cheap PSU when moving it; I probably should have bought a new one to start with but thought that was an easy place to save money. Ended up costing my like $900 and a ton of headaches. Go figure.
I never figured out for sure, but I think I shorted out my cheap PSU when moving it; I probably should have bought a new one to start with but thought that was an easy place to save money. Ended up costing my like $900 and a ton of headaches. Go figure.
I never skimp on PSU, a bad PSU can cause all kinds of annoying and hard to diagnose instability.
Also fire, which isn't something I was worried too much about before, but will be now.
Also fire, which isn't something I was worried too much about before, but will be now.
Definitely learned my lesson. My two machines now have expensive, highly-rated PSUs that I clean out several times a year. Saving $40-60 isn't worth the potential fire.
> I usually assemble my desktop cases from mail order parts.
Doesn't everybody? I mean unless you are building a case from scratch. I also don't know of any plastic desktop cases, they're either steel or aluminum.
Doesn't everybody? I mean unless you are building a case from scratch. I also don't know of any plastic desktop cases, they're either steel or aluminum.
> I also don't know of any plastic desktop cases
I have many in the basement housing older desktops.
I have many in the basement housing older desktops.
My first PC - an Acer 486 had a plastic case. It's also why I kinda screwed up the construction of my second PC - studied the construction of the acer one, saw it was screwed into the case. So I screwed the new motherboard into the new case... I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't power on.
Took it to a friend's place, he just about fell over laughing when he realised I'd missed the copper risers.
Took it to a friend's place, he just about fell over laughing when he realised I'd missed the copper risers.
Yeah plastic seemed more common in the past. If I had to speculate, I would say that as all the guts got cheaper and cheaper, and at some point a fairly low-powered desktop was more than most people would need, manufacturers didn't want to drop the price of the system any lower. At the same time they had to keep margins reasonable in order to compete. So, they spent more on the case.
A buddy of mine had his computer catch fire, it turned out to be a shorted USB plug with some sort of add-on board inside the case.
I stripped it down and verified everything and now it's my gaming PC.
I stripped it down and verified everything and now it's my gaming PC.
I had a Sun Sparc Classic with a Sun 17" CRT monitor. It was the monitor that caught fire due to a build of dust on the electronics. Call me dirty, I guess.
"Back in the day" I worked in a ~50 person organization where there was a senior luddite who was the bane of the IT department. Well one day her monitor caught on fire. We engaged the services of the maintenance department to have a custom frame and plaque made for the charred circuit board. I suspect it still hangs in the server room to this day.
For those wondering - it is the 2015 MBP Retina 15"
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/bulbhv/my_macbook_pr...
I would put money down that his serial number is not included in the recent recall. As usual, Apple seems to be in denial of the extent of the issues.
Would you agree to bet a donation (the EFF or something else you like?) We can ask the reddit user to check their serial.
I also had my battery swell recently to the point where the bulging was visible and noticeable as the mbp wouldn't lay flat on the table anymore.
When I consulted the apple store (Berlin) about it they told it I need not to worry about it and I wouldn't be eligible for a battery swap as the mbp was performing 'nominally'.
I was sceptical and let the battery drain over night, it ended up turning off at ~30% supposed capacity.
I brought it to an 'unofficial' repair shop who instantly opened the mbp, the bottom lid was thrown off due to pressure after removing the last screws.
The battery was swollen to the point where it looked like it was about to burst and the repairman was visible nervous.
He ended up removing the battery on a outdoor table and replaced it.
Something similar happened to one of my colleagues too, albeit after just 3 months of ownership.
Something similar happened to one of my colleagues too, albeit after just 3 months of ownership.
> When I consulted the apple store (Berlin) about it they told it I need not to worry about it
Those people are assholes. Literally.
> Once you notice the battery is swollen or compromised in any way, you should immediately stop using the device. Turn the power off, and above all else, do not charge the device. Once the battery has reached such a point of failure that the battery is swollen, you must assume that all safety mechanisms in the battery are offline. Charging a swollen battery is literally asking for it to turn into an exploding ball of noxious flammable gas right in your living room.
https://www.howtogeek.com/244846/what-to-do-when-your-phone-...
Those people are assholes. Literally.
> Once you notice the battery is swollen or compromised in any way, you should immediately stop using the device. Turn the power off, and above all else, do not charge the device. Once the battery has reached such a point of failure that the battery is swollen, you must assume that all safety mechanisms in the battery are offline. Charging a swollen battery is literally asking for it to turn into an exploding ball of noxious flammable gas right in your living room.
https://www.howtogeek.com/244846/what-to-do-when-your-phone-...
[deleted]
>I produce music for a living - FIVE days without my computer is unacceptable
Then get two computers as a backup?
While here it's Apple's issue, it could just as well be your fault that the laptop died (e.g. dropping it).
Then you wouldn't have any laptop, but also no justification to demand an immediate replacement or deem not receiving one "unacceptable"...
Then get two computers as a backup?
While here it's Apple's issue, it could just as well be your fault that the laptop died (e.g. dropping it).
Then you wouldn't have any laptop, but also no justification to demand an immediate replacement or deem not receiving one "unacceptable"...
I’m guessing if it was their fault and they damaged the machine to an extent it wasn’t useable they’d go out and buy a replacement on the spot, spare computers take up space and money, especially if they are sat in a box for just in case which may never come vs walking in to a store and walking out with one there and then.
It’s common to get given temporary mobile phones if in for manufacturers warranty repair so why not offer it for laptops?
It’s common to get given temporary mobile phones if in for manufacturers warranty repair so why not offer it for laptops?
@coldtea’s advise is still sound.
If you pour cold tea on your only laptop at 7pm just before a gig, buying and setting up a new laptop could prove difficult.
If you pour cold tea on your only laptop at 7pm just before a gig, buying and setting up a new laptop could prove difficult.
> If you pour cold tea on your only laptop at 7pm just before a gig, buying and setting up a new laptop could prove difficult.
Your hypothetical is not consistent with the redditor's complaint. The redditor implies that he can survive without the laptop for a day or two--but things become problematic around five days, so I think @tiew9Vii's point-of-view is reasonable.
It's also consistent with my situation. I make my living off of my laptop. I don't have a spare, which I think would be a financial waste. If my laptop suffers a catastrophe, I will rent/purchase a stop-gap device. I can take a productivity hit for the 24-48 hours it takes me to get back up to speed.
Your hypothetical is not consistent with the redditor's complaint. The redditor implies that he can survive without the laptop for a day or two--but things become problematic around five days, so I think @tiew9Vii's point-of-view is reasonable.
It's also consistent with my situation. I make my living off of my laptop. I don't have a spare, which I think would be a financial waste. If my laptop suffers a catastrophe, I will rent/purchase a stop-gap device. I can take a productivity hit for the 24-48 hours it takes me to get back up to speed.
You have your data backed up, yes? Just curious.
If something is that important then you really should have a backup, even if it's something like a VM that can be spun up quickly in the cloud, or an older machine that's still better than nothing. It makes sense not to rely entirely on the manufacturer's ability to investigate, draw a conclusion, and issue a replacement in a time frame that's guaranteed to be reasonable for you.
Many people cannot imagine live without phones. Computers at home on the other hand are not perceived as a necessity. And at work typically there is a spare PC or some other way to survive while the computer is under repair.
But the Reddit poster uses the Mac for his job in the music industry. So I'd say it is a necessity.
> But the Reddit poster uses the Mac for his job in the music industry. So I'd say it is a necessity.
The general idea is that when it comes to business, contingency planning and backups (data and hardware) are considered to be requirements.
The general idea is that when it comes to business, contingency planning and backups (data and hardware) are considered to be requirements.
>Then you wouldn't have any laptop, but also no justification to demand an immediate replacement or deem not receiving one "unacceptable"
My computer failed to start one morning, it was my work only computer that I use for my job(work remote from a village) so I went in the city with the PC, I found a shop, the person there tested my RAM,CPU and other parts, the motherboard was broken, I baught a new motherboard , paid the poerson to replace it, I also asked for a GPU upgrade and a cleaning.
In a few hours I was back working. If this was a MacBook there is no store in the small city I live near, I would probably had to find someone that could "illegaly" test the laptop and that would use his connections to find me some "illegal" parts and wait for those parts to arrive.
I am also using my PCs after the warranty expires and fix them if a component breaks(like memory). My old AMD Phenom 2 is still running (my son uses it for lite gaming). is the one that I had to replace the motherboard. (I also bought a quality APS to keep my equipment safe)
My computer failed to start one morning, it was my work only computer that I use for my job(work remote from a village) so I went in the city with the PC, I found a shop, the person there tested my RAM,CPU and other parts, the motherboard was broken, I baught a new motherboard , paid the poerson to replace it, I also asked for a GPU upgrade and a cleaning.
In a few hours I was back working. If this was a MacBook there is no store in the small city I live near, I would probably had to find someone that could "illegaly" test the laptop and that would use his connections to find me some "illegal" parts and wait for those parts to arrive.
I am also using my PCs after the warranty expires and fix them if a component breaks(like memory). My old AMD Phenom 2 is still running (my son uses it for lite gaming). is the one that I had to replace the motherboard. (I also bought a quality APS to keep my equipment safe)
Based on this information I infer that you have a desktop machine. If you had a PC laptop you’d be equally screwed, with zero chance the shop had a spare motherboard for your machine.
Granted you’d be equally screwed with a Mac Mini or iMac but fundamentally this has nothing to do with Apple vs PC. Desktop PCs that can be changed with standard parts or even custom built are not the market norm anymore and entered the specialised market realm long ago.
Your post also reads very much as "You're wrong to use Apple" but you have to realise that they produce a very reasonable solution for many. My use case covers a wide spectrum of mobility, security, dev, music, and photo/video editing, and while alternatives can do things like that they won't do so as efficiently and with the same quality across that whole spectrum for me. It would be foolish to shoot myself in the foot by nerfing my workflows every single minute of the day for a rare event. I do have a spare machine (which does not need to be the latest and greatest so can come out pretty cheap), which allows me a very quick turnover to continue working, well within an hour of a fatal failure (and that's even though I have an Apple Store 5 min away from my place).
Granted you’d be equally screwed with a Mac Mini or iMac but fundamentally this has nothing to do with Apple vs PC. Desktop PCs that can be changed with standard parts or even custom built are not the market norm anymore and entered the specialised market realm long ago.
Your post also reads very much as "You're wrong to use Apple" but you have to realise that they produce a very reasonable solution for many. My use case covers a wide spectrum of mobility, security, dev, music, and photo/video editing, and while alternatives can do things like that they won't do so as efficiently and with the same quality across that whole spectrum for me. It would be foolish to shoot myself in the foot by nerfing my workflows every single minute of the day for a rare event. I do have a spare machine (which does not need to be the latest and greatest so can come out pretty cheap), which allows me a very quick turnover to continue working, well within an hour of a fatal failure (and that's even though I have an Apple Store 5 min away from my place).
> entered the specialised market realm
The reasoning in this thread started with something along the lines of "if you use your computer professionally... [statements]". I would argue that if you use your computer professionally you should definitely consider using specialised products, which includes custom built desktops as you correctly noted.
The reasoning in this thread started with something along the lines of "if you use your computer professionally... [statements]". I would argue that if you use your computer professionally you should definitely consider using specialised products, which includes custom built desktops as you correctly noted.
For many people—particularly those in creative professional fields like music production—a Mac laptop is the specialised hardware they need, because it is the only thing that supports their workflow (certain software required, must be able to be on-site with it, etc).
Not true,IMO
1 I would have got the person at the shop check it and tell me if I need a new laptop or a new part, this happened to a laptop of mine and I decided I would get a new laptop, then the shop person offered to buy the display and RAM from me and I sold it, so a different person would be able to fix his laptop
2 a spare part can be found from a different laptop or ordered online by the shop, so they can order it at the time I arrived with my broken laptop
I don't think that I would have been screwed but let me know if you still disagree.
1 I would have got the person at the shop check it and tell me if I need a new laptop or a new part, this happened to a laptop of mine and I decided I would get a new laptop, then the shop person offered to buy the display and RAM from me and I sold it, so a different person would be able to fix his laptop
2 a spare part can be found from a different laptop or ordered online by the shop, so they can order it at the time I arrived with my broken laptop
I don't think that I would have been screwed but let me know if you still disagree.
> this happened to a laptop of mine and I decided I would get a new laptop
Equally true for Apple hardware, that you can get in most reasonably sized shopping malls basically anywhere over here (France). Most places that sell laptops also sell Apple hardware.
Equally true for Apple hardware, that you can get in most reasonably sized shopping malls basically anywhere over here (France). Most places that sell laptops also sell Apple hardware.
Maybe I do not understand your point, but can you go with a broken Apple laptop , without a schedule to shopping mall, have someone test it, tell you a diagnose and how much will it cost, ifv you decide you want a new one would the shop offer you money for the working parts of your Apple laptop( Apple is trying to make this illegal, reusing parts)
Oh, maybe it's just me that was confused and did not understand your case. Let me fix that: you went to the shop for a diagnosis maybe expecting a simple operation and was told the computer requires unexpectedly expensive repair, so you bought a new one instead? I thought you knew it beforehand since it was old already.
In that case where there is no Apple sanctioned repair presence such shops either usually sell Apple hardware and gladly perform support and diagnosis if that can bring them a sale, or they're nice enough to help you anyway with the diagnosis out of good will (people are generally like that in digitally scarce areas) and will direct you to get a new one at the mall (or, they're dicks and then, screw them).
You have every right to call me an optimist about human behaviour though ;)
In that case where there is no Apple sanctioned repair presence such shops either usually sell Apple hardware and gladly perform support and diagnosis if that can bring them a sale, or they're nice enough to help you anyway with the diagnosis out of good will (people are generally like that in digitally scarce areas) and will direct you to get a new one at the mall (or, they're dicks and then, screw them).
You have every right to call me an optimist about human behaviour though ;)
Right, is the same here in Romania, a third party shop will try to help you fix any laptop,phone,tablet , I dislike the fact that Apple is attacking this shops with lawsuits, FUD campaigns, preventing others to buy parts etc.
There's a tradeoff involved. Not always, but often: Either [A] the part is easy to access and replace, or [B] the part fits in a smaller space or the hardware can be faster and less likely to fail in the first place.
If you would prefer to trade away smaller, faster, and more robust for accessibility, you should do that. MacBooks are for the folks who side with [B] a lot, and they make that fairly clear.
NB: Of course, sometimes there is a 'tradeoff' where a part of the device is basically just crappier for no real gain, and sometimes the non-standard part's primary gain is 'cheaper', which can be an upside, but it can also be some nickel-and-dime baloney that is clearly a bad tradeoff and the company making the device is trying to get away with it hoping nobody notices. I'm not talking about those tradeoffs.
Examples:
* Using a non-standard screen connector cable because all the available standards do not allow for a single cable to connect device to screen (the case with imacs)
* The effect of soldering the RAM straight onto the motherboard (much smaller and more robust; banging a laptop into a corner is less likely to unseat soldered-on RAM than RAM in a replaceable bay whose engineering is focused more on it being really small than the connection being particularly robust. Yes, YOU can fix it, but your average user perhaps isn't quite as cavalier at opening it all up).
* A single replaceable battery is nice, but if you just glue a bunch of packs in there you can fill every nook and cranny. For what it is worth, apple is still trying to make this as replaceable as possible within reason: I've done a battery replacement on a non-retina macbook air 11, and the 4 separate packs are glued onto a sheet of plastic so you can remove the entire assembly (after disconnecting various ribbons).
Separate from that, there's the notion of 'whose responsibility is it?' – this is a more hairy topic. If you open up your own PC and stick a giant, overclocked CPU in there and then attach a teensy tiny cooler to it all, perhaps due to unfortunate circumstance some of the capacitors on the motherboard blow up due to the excessive heat wafting off of the CPU, which manages to peg itself to 90ºC and survives. If you then make a warranty claim vs. the manufacturer, that feels inappropriate. A manufacturer that tries to stop this from happening would either have to excessively spec out the precise limits of what you can and cannot do (a good idea, but such rules need wiggle room, which means it can't be as fast/small/cutting-edge as it could be), or do what apple does and basically say: Hey, if a qualified apple service engineer isn't doing the work, you're on your own.
I'm not exactly happy with this state of affairs, but I don't see a strictly better alternative either.
If you would prefer to trade away smaller, faster, and more robust for accessibility, you should do that. MacBooks are for the folks who side with [B] a lot, and they make that fairly clear.
NB: Of course, sometimes there is a 'tradeoff' where a part of the device is basically just crappier for no real gain, and sometimes the non-standard part's primary gain is 'cheaper', which can be an upside, but it can also be some nickel-and-dime baloney that is clearly a bad tradeoff and the company making the device is trying to get away with it hoping nobody notices. I'm not talking about those tradeoffs.
Examples:
* Using a non-standard screen connector cable because all the available standards do not allow for a single cable to connect device to screen (the case with imacs)
* The effect of soldering the RAM straight onto the motherboard (much smaller and more robust; banging a laptop into a corner is less likely to unseat soldered-on RAM than RAM in a replaceable bay whose engineering is focused more on it being really small than the connection being particularly robust. Yes, YOU can fix it, but your average user perhaps isn't quite as cavalier at opening it all up).
* A single replaceable battery is nice, but if you just glue a bunch of packs in there you can fill every nook and cranny. For what it is worth, apple is still trying to make this as replaceable as possible within reason: I've done a battery replacement on a non-retina macbook air 11, and the 4 separate packs are glued onto a sheet of plastic so you can remove the entire assembly (after disconnecting various ribbons).
Separate from that, there's the notion of 'whose responsibility is it?' – this is a more hairy topic. If you open up your own PC and stick a giant, overclocked CPU in there and then attach a teensy tiny cooler to it all, perhaps due to unfortunate circumstance some of the capacitors on the motherboard blow up due to the excessive heat wafting off of the CPU, which manages to peg itself to 90ºC and survives. If you then make a warranty claim vs. the manufacturer, that feels inappropriate. A manufacturer that tries to stop this from happening would either have to excessively spec out the precise limits of what you can and cannot do (a good idea, but such rules need wiggle room, which means it can't be as fast/small/cutting-edge as it could be), or do what apple does and basically say: Hey, if a qualified apple service engineer isn't doing the work, you're on your own.
I'm not exactly happy with this state of affairs, but I don't see a strictly better alternative either.
The main issue I have with Apple is that they are pushing to make it impossible to repair things, not selling parts, trying to make illegal refurbishing parts, trying to prevent third party repairs and finally straight lying about things, like telling customers "your data can't be recovered, say goodbye to it" when in fact this is false and the truth is "Apple won't bother do data recovery for you, third parties do this but we don't want to talk about that"
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That's why I would never buy a Ferrari. In my small town, I wouldn't be able to find anyone to work on it. What a crap car.
Do you insinuate that Apple hardware is a fashion statement and not for real work?
If I live in a big city can I get my iMac/MacBook fixed without scheduling in 1-2 hours? I seen the LTT saga with the iMac where they could not fix it so it would be like you crash your Ferarri and you have to wait for them to first train the mechanics and create the spare parts and after that have it fixed.
If I live in a big city can I get my iMac/MacBook fixed without scheduling in 1-2 hours? I seen the LTT saga with the iMac where they could not fix it so it would be like you crash your Ferarri and you have to wait for them to first train the mechanics and create the spare parts and after that have it fixed.
Absolutely not! I haven't a clue why you think that. My point is, the guy I responded to complains that he can get his commodity hardware fixed anywhere while his Apple needs to be taken to a "specialty" store as if they were the same thing.
can you respond to this :c an you get it unscheduled repairs from Apple in the same day?
I had more then 1 point, let me be more clear:
1 I had more then one repair shop in a small city, so I have choices
2 I got the unscheduled issue diagnosed and fixed in max 2 hours
3 I even made a GPU upgrade and I had choices AMD or NVIDIA
Btw even living in a village I can get things fixed like any other people, like when a new thing I bought broke in the first week I sent it back, it took 3 weeks to have it replaced but it works on small villages too. My example was about a PC that was important for my work and that was out of warranty, though with PCs, in the way I buy them I have warranty for each part so I have the option to go in the town, have someone test and replace the broken part(maybe I buy a cheap GPU or RAM) and send only the broken part back.
I had more then 1 point, let me be more clear:
1 I had more then one repair shop in a small city, so I have choices
2 I got the unscheduled issue diagnosed and fixed in max 2 hours
3 I even made a GPU upgrade and I had choices AMD or NVIDIA
Btw even living in a village I can get things fixed like any other people, like when a new thing I bought broke in the first week I sent it back, it took 3 weeks to have it replaced but it works on small villages too. My example was about a PC that was important for my work and that was out of warranty, though with PCs, in the way I buy them I have warranty for each part so I have the option to go in the town, have someone test and replace the broken part(maybe I buy a cheap GPU or RAM) and send only the broken part back.
That's great that everything works so well for your use-case but this isn't a PC vs Apple issue. There's no need to repeatedly try to convince anyone that your way is better. We all live different lives and make different choices.
What would be wrong if Apple customers would have choices? Nobody would force you to use a third party repair shop.
>be like you crash your Ferarri and you have to wait for them to first train the mechanics and create the spare parts and after that have it fixed.
Yeah, that’s actually exactly how it works. Good luck getting spare parts for a new Ferrari, all the parts will be headed for the assembly line and not towards your car.
Yeah, that’s actually exactly how it works. Good luck getting spare parts for a new Ferrari, all the parts will be headed for the assembly line and not towards your car.
Similar to Tesla then, this is not acceptable for some hardware you use to do your work. When you sell your new shiny product your repair shops should have been trained, should have all the parts,manuals, software needed to fix the problems that would appear, things break, even if the user is at fault he should be able to have it fixed.
what is your point? you do realize that there exists a scenario where you wouldn't be able to go to the city and get your PC fixed? so is your recommendation then to build a factory where any PC component can be produced on demand within a day?
if macbook is not an option because of circumstances you're in - don't buy a macbook. this need to publicly defend and rationalize your life choices along with implicit condemnation of choice of others is just weird.
people have different preferences and live in different circumstances. - yours truly, captain obvious.
if macbook is not an option because of circumstances you're in - don't buy a macbook. this need to publicly defend and rationalize your life choices along with implicit condemnation of choice of others is just weird.
people have different preferences and live in different circumstances. - yours truly, captain obvious.
My point is that we need "right to repair", there should not be a monopoly on who can fix something or who can create parts, A second point is that waiting 5 days for someone to look at your hardware and tell you if it can or can't be fixed is also a problem. At least you don't wait 1 week for a response, then a week for parts to arrive and then a few days for the thing to be fixed.
I am not sure why you felt the need to respond in such a way, you can respond with the scenario I did not consider and explain why your opinion is the correrct one.
I am not sure why you felt the need to respond in such a way, you can respond with the scenario I did not consider and explain why your opinion is the correrct one.
You already have a right to buy stuff and put it together yourself and fix it. Go do that. Or pay someone to do it.
I prefer the super thin, svelte designed devices that simply cannot be made easily repairable.
There is no “right” to enforce your particular design and implementation standards on manufacturers. You’re inventing rights that do not and should not exist.
If you want to tinker, that’s great. Go tinker. Most of us do not. It’s idiotic for a tiny percentage of people who do want to whip out a soldering iron and go to town to put constraints on what the rest of us are allowed to buy.
And FYI, I do like to put together a machine every once in a while and fix it and tinker with it. It’s fun. I enjoy it. But that doesn’t mean I have some sort of fundamental human right to make every thing buildable by me, personally.
The right to repair is like the right to live your whole life without ever being offended by anything or encounter an idea you find uncomfortable. Enforcing your personal right abrogates other people’s rights and denies other people things they like to say, think, and buy.
But the real truth is that the right to repair always boils down to some clown on the internet who read an iFixit tear down and thinks, “man, I could make my own i-whatever for, like a hundred bucks if only Apple could be forced to sell me all the parts in exactly the right configuration at a price that only accounts for the bare basic raw materials.
If you want the fancy things, pay for the fancy things. If you want a brick house machine that you can cart through the jungle and swap out a new motherboard every time you drop it in a river, then buy one of those. No one is stopping you. The choice you want to have already exists.
I prefer the super thin, svelte designed devices that simply cannot be made easily repairable.
There is no “right” to enforce your particular design and implementation standards on manufacturers. You’re inventing rights that do not and should not exist.
If you want to tinker, that’s great. Go tinker. Most of us do not. It’s idiotic for a tiny percentage of people who do want to whip out a soldering iron and go to town to put constraints on what the rest of us are allowed to buy.
And FYI, I do like to put together a machine every once in a while and fix it and tinker with it. It’s fun. I enjoy it. But that doesn’t mean I have some sort of fundamental human right to make every thing buildable by me, personally.
The right to repair is like the right to live your whole life without ever being offended by anything or encounter an idea you find uncomfortable. Enforcing your personal right abrogates other people’s rights and denies other people things they like to say, think, and buy.
But the real truth is that the right to repair always boils down to some clown on the internet who read an iFixit tear down and thinks, “man, I could make my own i-whatever for, like a hundred bucks if only Apple could be forced to sell me all the parts in exactly the right configuration at a price that only accounts for the bare basic raw materials.
If you want the fancy things, pay for the fancy things. If you want a brick house machine that you can cart through the jungle and swap out a new motherboard every time you drop it in a river, then buy one of those. No one is stopping you. The choice you want to have already exists.
You are covering up the actual facts:"
1 if you publish Apples repair manuals apple with come after you, explain me how is this hurting the consumer, how is this making your phone thinker ?
2 Apple is preventing imports of parts from refurbished hardware, is this helping with the phone dimensions?
3 I don't want to repair my computer, I want others to repair them for me, It is idiotic(your words) to insinuate that people want to fix stuff themselves, it is not, is it possible to stop repeating this "idiotic" statement???
4 some companies introduce DRM to prevent fixing stuff, is this helping the consumer? how? if I have 2 identical broken laptops and I want to move parts from A to B to get 1 working one why should DRM prevent this? Is is my hardware, I have the right to use it as I want, it is a right to do with my property what I want if I do not hurt others, Please, please let me know why DRM should prevent me do what I want with my hardware,
About your thing phone statements, I am not proposing hardware companies make them like LEGOs, If they make it so fixing a key means replacing the entire phone or laptop the company will pay through their nose when the keys start failing, so I personally I am not your target for thin phones rage.
1 if you publish Apples repair manuals apple with come after you, explain me how is this hurting the consumer, how is this making your phone thinker ?
2 Apple is preventing imports of parts from refurbished hardware, is this helping with the phone dimensions?
3 I don't want to repair my computer, I want others to repair them for me, It is idiotic(your words) to insinuate that people want to fix stuff themselves, it is not, is it possible to stop repeating this "idiotic" statement???
4 some companies introduce DRM to prevent fixing stuff, is this helping the consumer? how? if I have 2 identical broken laptops and I want to move parts from A to B to get 1 working one why should DRM prevent this? Is is my hardware, I have the right to use it as I want, it is a right to do with my property what I want if I do not hurt others, Please, please let me know why DRM should prevent me do what I want with my hardware,
About your thing phone statements, I am not proposing hardware companies make them like LEGOs, If they make it so fixing a key means replacing the entire phone or laptop the company will pay through their nose when the keys start failing, so I personally I am not your target for thin phones rage.
The issue with Macs is that repairing one often isn't a straightforward process. My current MacBook Pro had video issues when I first got it; I was lucky to have Apple replace it on the spot, but often options for repair through Apple are very time-consuming and often costly.
And the real issue here is that this is an absolutely unacceptable level of service for a company that tries to sell itself as a premium brand.
A long time ago I had a Dell laptop. When there was a problem Dell arranged an onsite and it was fixed within 24 hours.
Given Apple's margins and market cap, the fact that Apple refuses to offer a similar level of service even as part of a paid support contract is a symptom of complacency and outright penny-pinching greed.
And short-sightedness. It's a fair bet that legendary customer support would do some wonderfully positive things for the Apple brand - and perhaps even for profits.
But Cook seems too busy disappointing customers and counting his pile of beans and to consider that as a possibility.
A long time ago I had a Dell laptop. When there was a problem Dell arranged an onsite and it was fixed within 24 hours.
Given Apple's margins and market cap, the fact that Apple refuses to offer a similar level of service even as part of a paid support contract is a symptom of complacency and outright penny-pinching greed.
And short-sightedness. It's a fair bet that legendary customer support would do some wonderfully positive things for the Apple brand - and perhaps even for profits.
But Cook seems too busy disappointing customers and counting his pile of beans and to consider that as a possibility.
> A long time ago I had a Dell laptop. When there was a problem Dell arranged an onsite and it was fixed within 24 hours.
I have had a similar experience with Dell - and on a laptop that cost a fair bit less than a MacBook Pro, FWIW.
I have had a similar experience with Dell - and on a laptop that cost a fair bit less than a MacBook Pro, FWIW.
Hmm not sure I have come across Uber driver having a second car as a backup.
MacBook Pro is an expensive piece of equipment and someone who produces music for living (or any other freelancers really) must have stretched their budget to get the primary machine itself.
If I pay top dollars for anything then I do hope that I don't have to pay top dollars again for having a backup of that.
MacBook Pro is an expensive piece of equipment and someone who produces music for living (or any other freelancers really) must have stretched their budget to get the primary machine itself.
If I pay top dollars for anything then I do hope that I don't have to pay top dollars again for having a backup of that.
I agree with you in general, but the username is whitepandamusic; if they're actually White Panda they're a fairly prominent DJ and producer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Panda
Edit: Looks like it is! https://twitter.com/whitepanda/status/1133847982317723648
Edit: Looks like it is! https://twitter.com/whitepanda/status/1133847982317723648
Yep, he's very well-known in certain circles, having started working on singles with solo artists alongside the previous duos mashup work.
If this resulted in substantial data loss, it could be really bad.
If this resulted in substantial data loss, it could be really bad.
The thread says he hasn't taken a backup in a year, so that's that I guess. The SSD is unlikely to survive a fire.
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That's uncalled for. No need to blame the victim.
A laptop going into flames is generally a manufacturer's fault. If one were to damage the machine through fault of their own, they wouldn't demand a replacement.
A laptop going into flames is generally a manufacturer's fault. If one were to damage the machine through fault of their own, they wouldn't demand a replacement.
"Blaming the victim" is standard operating procedure for Apple. Remember "you're holding it wrong?"
> Either put up with your computer exploding and not being able to do your job for a few days, or spend another two grand to buy a whole other computer you probably won't use.
Fixed that for you. I get the point generally, but there's a great difference between "I damaged my computer and it will take a week to fix" and "My computer spontaneously combusted and it will take a week to fix". Namely, fault and impact. When you damage your computer, you are at fault and you are impacted. Fair. When your computer goes boom, Apple is (probably) at fault, but you are still impacted.
Though yeah, not backing up your stuff is inexcusable in the age of cheap, ubiquitous storage space. Particularly in the cloud.
Fixed that for you. I get the point generally, but there's a great difference between "I damaged my computer and it will take a week to fix" and "My computer spontaneously combusted and it will take a week to fix". Namely, fault and impact. When you damage your computer, you are at fault and you are impacted. Fair. When your computer goes boom, Apple is (probably) at fault, but you are still impacted.
Though yeah, not backing up your stuff is inexcusable in the age of cheap, ubiquitous storage space. Particularly in the cloud.
Isn't this what AppleCare is for?
At least with Dell my experience is that they just come to you and replace what is broken and also replace what might have been broken.
But Dell computers can be opened and components can be easily replaced (most of the time without tools).
As others point out this is the disadvantage of Apple laptops. Not to speak of the Microsoft surface which gets a score of zero @ iFixit.
At least with Dell my experience is that they just come to you and replace what is broken and also replace what might have been broken.
But Dell computers can be opened and components can be easily replaced (most of the time without tools).
As others point out this is the disadvantage of Apple laptops. Not to speak of the Microsoft surface which gets a score of zero @ iFixit.
I think the issue is that Apple used to be a more service-oriented brand.
My Dual G4 tower years ago had a run of bad processor modules. AppleCare sent service reps out three times in the space of four days trying to get it working correctly. Today, almost everything has to go back to Apple to be replaced; there are no more Apple-sanctioned repair outlets and the Apple store can't do much more than elevated diagnostics tests.
If you get into a car accident, you can take it to the dealer for repair but it'll likely be much more expensive because their goal is to keep the car running to their specifications. If the repair costs are excessive, your insurance might just total the car. You could still take it to a garage, get it repaired for a fraction of what the insurance claim was and get many more years of use out of it.
With Apple, there's not really much option for repair, as they usually won't sell parts to aftermarket repair outlets.
My Dual G4 tower years ago had a run of bad processor modules. AppleCare sent service reps out three times in the space of four days trying to get it working correctly. Today, almost everything has to go back to Apple to be replaced; there are no more Apple-sanctioned repair outlets and the Apple store can't do much more than elevated diagnostics tests.
If you get into a car accident, you can take it to the dealer for repair but it'll likely be much more expensive because their goal is to keep the car running to their specifications. If the repair costs are excessive, your insurance might just total the car. You could still take it to a garage, get it repaired for a fraction of what the insurance claim was and get many more years of use out of it.
With Apple, there's not really much option for repair, as they usually won't sell parts to aftermarket repair outlets.
Exactly, even we're not at fault we shouldn't completely rely on other parties. I keep my old laptop as a backup in case my new one fails. It never did since I bought it in 2014 but who knows what's about to happen. Git pull, USB disk with backups and some installations and I should be OK for the couple of days I need to order and get the new parts.
Yeah, professional mindset grants for backup plans. Unless you like walking on wires.
> While here it's Apple's issue, it could just as well be your fault that the laptop died (e.g. dropping it).
Sure, and it could have been trampled by an escaped rhino, and then the zoo would owe him a new laptop. But we're not talking about random hypotheticals. A company has different responsibilities when their product explodes than when the customer breaks it.
Also, How about the part where Apple told him they'd call back in 24 hours and didn't?
Sure, and it could have been trampled by an escaped rhino, and then the zoo would owe him a new laptop. But we're not talking about random hypotheticals. A company has different responsibilities when their product explodes than when the customer breaks it.
Also, How about the part where Apple told him they'd call back in 24 hours and didn't?
"Just buy two!"
Another case of someone passing the blame from a manufacturer of faulty hardware (Apple) to the customer.
Is there a going term for this phenomena? There should be, by now.
Another case of someone passing the blame from a manufacturer of faulty hardware (Apple) to the customer.
Is there a going term for this phenomena? There should be, by now.
even though it is a bit harsh i agree. rely on yourself, not on some warranty notices and customer support from tech giants... that has hardly ever served someone well. (i.e. support from a tech company can't recover your burnt data either way... product error or human error aside..)
if you make a living from something, protect it, otherwise you risk your livelyhood. protect it YOURSELF.
if you make a living from something, protect it, otherwise you risk your livelyhood. protect it YOURSELF.
I think they could drop him a loaner here.
If a working MacBook would really be as strictly needed as he states it (earning his living with it). He could have simply bought a new one, not able to work for a week may be more financial damage.
And Apple has a 14 day return policy, he is absolutely overstating the impact a missing macbook has for him!
"Just buy a new one" would be my personal approach too, but at least I have the humility to understand that not everyone is as fortunate as me.
This made me wince.
I haven't backed up my mac in 10 months now simply out of laziness, it contains some sensitive client work that NDA doesn't allow me to put in the cloud, it's millions of dollars worth of work and contracts, if I lose it, my company loses those clients as well.
And my MBP gets really hot sometimes. Expect a TIFU from me at anytime.
I haven't backed up my mac in 10 months now simply out of laziness, it contains some sensitive client work that NDA doesn't allow me to put in the cloud, it's millions of dollars worth of work and contracts, if I lose it, my company loses those clients as well.
And my MBP gets really hot sometimes. Expect a TIFU from me at anytime.
An external hard drive is a $100 insurance policy.
Here, I'll save you some trouble: just click buy now here:
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Portable-External-Drive-WDBU...
Here, I'll save you some trouble: just click buy now here:
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Portable-External-Drive-WDBU...
The contracts exist elsewhere; both parties have signed them and your legal department will have a copy. You can back things up outside of the cloud. Ditto for your work, which will be in a version control system which is backed up. If you really run the risk of losing millions of dollars you need to maybe spend a little on getting 10 replacement laptops and cloning them and burying them in the garden or something. Also, it sounds like breaching the NDA is less bad than the result of losing the data.
You can use a service like Backblaze[1] and encrypt the backups with a password. This is saving you a LOT of worry and risk for $6/month.
[1]https://www.backblaze.com
[1]https://www.backblaze.com
I'm pretty sure the recovery process for backblaze includes them decrypting your files on their infrastructure and then sending to you. Or something like that. I did a ton of research into the different options recently and didn't like backblaze because of that.
However, I decided to give them a try anyway as I was partly researching for a friend who desperately needed backups and didn't care about that as much. So I installed backblaze on a machine and was surprised to find that 1) the exe is apparently modified per user so you don't have to login (memory hazy) and 2) it _immediately_ starts uploading _everything_ which really pissed me off. Like I get it, full system backups, but still I want some acknowledgement of what's about to happen and options to pare it down if I want. Nooope.
So yeah I don't think Bacblaze is gonna work for GP with their NDA given they can't restore without breaking it.
However, I decided to give them a try anyway as I was partly researching for a friend who desperately needed backups and didn't care about that as much. So I installed backblaze on a machine and was surprised to find that 1) the exe is apparently modified per user so you don't have to login (memory hazy) and 2) it _immediately_ starts uploading _everything_ which really pissed me off. Like I get it, full system backups, but still I want some acknowledgement of what's about to happen and options to pare it down if I want. Nooope.
So yeah I don't think Bacblaze is gonna work for GP with their NDA given they can't restore without breaking it.
I'll point out that nothing stops you, with any service at all, from encrypting yourself then backing that up. Ie., it's completely fine with Backblaze to dump everything into an encrypted sparseimage first, and then back up that rather then your drive directly. That's not to say getting a couple of simple external USB HDDs and then rotating them into a firesafe offsite once a week isn't a good idea too, or having a NAS, or any of an endless number of other solutions.
But in many cases using a 3rd party cloud service has advantages, and if you take care of encrypting contents yourself so that you just plain can ignore any security or lack thereof it'll make more options available, and possibly cheaper ones. It's all just bits and bytes.
But in many cases using a 3rd party cloud service has advantages, and if you take care of encrypting contents yourself so that you just plain can ignore any security or lack thereof it'll make more options available, and possibly cheaper ones. It's all just bits and bytes.
This is true but it adds a lot of complexity and brittleness for the average person.
> it _immediately_ starts uploading _everything_ which really pissed me off. Like I get it, full system backups, but still I want some acknowledgement of what's about to happen and options to pare it down if I want.
They've written about why they made this UX decision before [1], and it was because of "naive customers" who ended up either deselecting the C drive, or accidentally doing so.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/b6lbew/were_the_backb...
They've written about why they made this UX decision before [1], and it was because of "naive customers" who ended up either deselecting the C drive, or accidentally doing so.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/b6lbew/were_the_backb...
I don't understand how this incident changes anything, a million things could happen to a computer that makes it unusable.
> I haven't backed up my mac in 10 months now simply out of laziness
I've found that the backup strategy that works for me (i.e. set it and forget) is to have:
1) a daily Time Machine backup over my home wifi to my NAS; and
2) an occasional cloud backup using your preferred backup software of choice (I use Arq, but it's really slow backing up to Google Drive).
This way, if my MacBook goes out of action for some reason, I can easily get a replacement with little downtime.
I haven't gotten around to figuring out how to test my backups, and that's pretty important too.
I've found that the backup strategy that works for me (i.e. set it and forget) is to have:
1) a daily Time Machine backup over my home wifi to my NAS; and
2) an occasional cloud backup using your preferred backup software of choice (I use Arq, but it's really slow backing up to Google Drive).
This way, if my MacBook goes out of action for some reason, I can easily get a replacement with little downtime.
I haven't gotten around to figuring out how to test my backups, and that's pretty important too.
What, no one backed anything up before "the cloud"?
Yes, to CDRs that turned out to self-destruct in a year or so.
[deleted]
matwood(2)
I believe with the recent recall, Apple's doing the bare minimum in a PR damage control. A lot more batteries have to be affected than they're letting in.
My MBP mid-2015 has swollen batteries twice in 3.5 years. Now I have to pay $500-750 (Authorized Service Providers quote), as Apple Care expired, for something that increasingly looks like Apple's fault.
My MBP mid-2015 has swollen batteries twice in 3.5 years. Now I have to pay $500-750 (Authorized Service Providers quote), as Apple Care expired, for something that increasingly looks like Apple's fault.
If you are Australian, then they must fix this, regardless of if you have Apple Care.
Hmmm 2016 MacBook Pro here -- just brought it back to have the keyboard serviced. Checked the website and it says:
>The serial number you entered is not eligible under this program because either:
>It's not in the affected serial number range.
>Our records show that your device has already been serviced as part of this Program.
Opened up Cocunut Battery and have relized they replaced the battery without telling me. It's done very subtely on the service completion document -- "Replaced Top Case with Battery" -- are these parts not seperate?
>The serial number you entered is not eligible under this program because either:
>It's not in the affected serial number range.
>Our records show that your device has already been serviced as part of this Program.
Opened up Cocunut Battery and have relized they replaced the battery without telling me. It's done very subtely on the service completion document -- "Replaced Top Case with Battery" -- are these parts not seperate?
> are these parts not seperate?
No they are not. Anyone getting their keyboard replaced gets a new battery. Anyone getting their battery replaced gets a new keyboard/top case.
This is one of the reasons that out-of-warranty repairs for the butterfly keyboards were $700 (before the repair program was launched).
No they are not. Anyone getting their keyboard replaced gets a new battery. Anyone getting their battery replaced gets a new keyboard/top case.
This is one of the reasons that out-of-warranty repairs for the butterfly keyboards were $700 (before the repair program was launched).
Yup, as you suspect, the battery and keyboard are all part of the top assembly. I guess it's thinner, but sure does seem an odd way to build a "Pro" spec laptop.
They must not be -- when I took mine in to get the battery replaced (under the recall) they told me they'd be replacing the entire top case as well.
Note that this is a 22 day old Reddit post (seems relevant as it’s few weeks before the battery replacement program announcement).
Yes - I'm finding it rather unfulfilling that there's no update as to what the resolution was!
"If you don't talk about this incident any more on social media, here's a shiny new MacBook Pro. Otherwise, you get the ashes of your old laptop."
OK just spitballing because we have no idea if they offered up a replacement or left him in the lurch.
"If you don't talk about this incident any more on social media, here's a shiny new MacBook Pro. Otherwise, you get the ashes of your old laptop."
OK just spitballing because we have no idea if they offered up a replacement or left him in the lurch.
You write like it's a bad thing, but if this is resolved by Apple doing right by their customer, isn't that a good thing?
Obviously, that is a rage post (understandably). OP seems to no longer be enraged... problem solved, right?
Obviously, that is a rage post (understandably). OP seems to no longer be enraged... problem solved, right?
My opinion is that it would be helpful to the public to know how Apple is handling the situation. Maybe they aren't obligated to inform us, and the individual is not obligated to keep us up to date either, but I would like to know how things turned out.
Those fumes in the video can't be healthy, right?
Why is this person standing there just inhaling that? I would be very concerned about breathing battery-fire fumes, no?
Maybe they are not as toxic as I think? What should one do if this happens? Pouring water might make things worse, right?
Why is this person standing there just inhaling that? I would be very concerned about breathing battery-fire fumes, no?
Maybe they are not as toxic as I think? What should one do if this happens? Pouring water might make things worse, right?
I wouldn't breathe it. It probably won't kill you, but it won't be healthy, either. If anything, it would be like breathing the fumes from welding on galvanized steel.
Now - maybe you haven't done this; I'd suspect many haven't. Galvanized steel has a coating of zinc, which boils at a much lower temperature than steel melts at. So when you're welding on such steel, the smoke and fumes given off (which even when welding normally should be avoided) are particularly nasty:
https://www.bakersgas.com/weldmyworld/2011/12/03/side-effect...
A mild case of it basically feels like a very terrible cold/flu - but it can be deadly in great amounts. I'd suspect (but I'm not sure) that lithium fumes might cause similar symptoms.
And just for sake of completeness, because a lot of people aren't aware of it - if you weld, never, ever weld on anything that has been soaked with brake cleaner that contains tetrachloroethylene. It will release phosgene gas, which is deadly in small amounts:
https://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner-...
That's from a guy who survived such an accidental exposure - but he's now messed up for life. You can still buy this kind of brake cleaner in some states, but it's not for sale in others (I believe its banned from sale in California).
It's not so much that particular chemical, as it is the chlorine makeup of the chemical (the -chloro part); you could probably generate such gas by heating and vaporizing household bleach or pool chemicals that have chlorine in them, if you wanted to. But neither of those are likely to be used around steel and mechanical work like brake cleaner is.
Now - maybe you haven't done this; I'd suspect many haven't. Galvanized steel has a coating of zinc, which boils at a much lower temperature than steel melts at. So when you're welding on such steel, the smoke and fumes given off (which even when welding normally should be avoided) are particularly nasty:
https://www.bakersgas.com/weldmyworld/2011/12/03/side-effect...
A mild case of it basically feels like a very terrible cold/flu - but it can be deadly in great amounts. I'd suspect (but I'm not sure) that lithium fumes might cause similar symptoms.
And just for sake of completeness, because a lot of people aren't aware of it - if you weld, never, ever weld on anything that has been soaked with brake cleaner that contains tetrachloroethylene. It will release phosgene gas, which is deadly in small amounts:
https://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner-...
That's from a guy who survived such an accidental exposure - but he's now messed up for life. You can still buy this kind of brake cleaner in some states, but it's not for sale in others (I believe its banned from sale in California).
It's not so much that particular chemical, as it is the chlorine makeup of the chemical (the -chloro part); you could probably generate such gas by heating and vaporizing household bleach or pool chemicals that have chlorine in them, if you wanted to. But neither of those are likely to be used around steel and mechanical work like brake cleaner is.
My guess (not a chemist, battery enthusiast, or firefighter) is that the lithium exploded, and what remains is a cacophony of MacBook burning plastic fumes. It's not like it's LETHAL, just toxic enough to cause chemical burns, eye irritation, or cancer[0] through single exposure. There are several types of lithium too so I'm not sure what the right one is. The timing of his Reddit post t+5 days without any reported symptoms is probably a good sign. Was probably concerned his house was on fire.
[0] http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0710.htm
[0] http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0710.htm
Hmm. "Although the emission of toxic gases can be a larger threat than the heat, the knowledge of such emissions is limited." from a study titled "Toxic fluoride gas emissions from lithium-ion battery fires"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5577247/
CDC has some information about HF gas but they don't tend to link it to battery fires. Not sure about any of the amounts but it's just not something you want to burn in a firepit I suppose.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5577247/
CDC has some information about HF gas but they don't tend to link it to battery fires. Not sure about any of the amounts but it's just not something you want to burn in a firepit I suppose.
(CNN, June 20) Apple recalls batteries in some older 15-inch MacBook Pros: https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/tech/apple-recall-macbook-pro...
For everyone who's involved, seems like it's not a one off.
For everyone who's involved, seems like it's not a one off.
Isn't this always going to be a risk with high energy density batteries made from components that are volatile, especially in oxygen?
I suspect that the quality of manufacture will be a significant factor in mitigation of that risk, but is there a currently available battery design that produces enough power for enough time without carrying some risk of ignition?
I suspect that the quality of manufacture will be a significant factor in mitigation of that risk, but is there a currently available battery design that produces enough power for enough time without carrying some risk of ignition?
I have the 2015 15" MacBook pro too and it has a bunch of battery related issues. Last August, I used it until the battery died. The next day I turned it on and the computer was super slow and laggy. The CPU usage was maxed out and I couldn't figure out what was causing it. I rebooted the thing, reinstalled the OS, and tried all sorts of things to reset the battery but nothing worked. I didn't use it for two weeks and then the problem fixed itself. I haven't had the issue again and am too lazy too fix it.
Since then, there's another issue that surfaced. The laptop turns off whenever it reaches 100% charge. Have to see if it's covered under this recall...but probably not knowing my luck.
Since then, there's another issue that surfaced. The laptop turns off whenever it reaches 100% charge. Have to see if it's covered under this recall...but probably not knowing my luck.
"[Ineligible because our] records show that your device has already been serviced ..."
Cool, thanks Apple. Glad I got to pay like $700 for this when my 2015 MBP was overheating so much last year that the battery swelled and broke the motherboard. I just did a quick live-chat with one of the tech support people... no chance for a refund on the work I had done 8 months ago to replace the battery and repair damage it caused. It really sucks that people who proactively dealt with this can't get compensated for what is now acknowledged as a manufacturing flaw.
Cool, thanks Apple. Glad I got to pay like $700 for this when my 2015 MBP was overheating so much last year that the battery swelled and broke the motherboard. I just did a quick live-chat with one of the tech support people... no chance for a refund on the work I had done 8 months ago to replace the battery and repair damage it caused. It really sucks that people who proactively dealt with this can't get compensated for what is now acknowledged as a manufacturing flaw.
I wish there was a better support for MacOS X on Virtual box, so you can virtualize it on a Linux/Windows laptop with latest hardware, in case you need it.
Apple hardware is too pricey and sucks recently
Apple hardware is too pricey and sucks recently
While I do appreciate Apple’s particularly literal approach to ‘halt and catch fire’[0] this is a good reminder to have my battery replaced as soon as I’m near an Apple store. I wonder what the statistical probability of this actually happening to _my_ device is?
[0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire
[0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire
Typing this on a 2015 13 inch macbook pro with 4 out of 6 batteries swelled.. I'm pretty sure I could get Apple to service it but I will attempt to do locally here in Shenzhen. It is around 50USD to replace the batteries on the spot with a "new, original" pack..
The dilemma is, do I want an "original" pack back in?
The dilemma is, do I want an "original" pack back in?
Is there a way to make these batteries fail-safe?
Could the device itself know when the battery is bulging, on fire, whatever?
Could the power connectors themselves be designed to disconnect if the battery expands?
Could the device itself know when the battery is bulging, on fire, whatever?
Could the power connectors themselves be designed to disconnect if the battery expands?
I have had several, note plural, swollen batteries from older MBPs when they were the external kind and not the internal as now.
I've seen this on non-Apple laptops too. But, since this is 'hacker' 'news', anecdotes that do not work in Apple's favor get several front page postings here.
It was only 3 days ago all the Apple fanboys were coming out in the comments saying it hurts the Apple brand when a third-party battery catches fire, so you can't allow people to repair their own phones. SMH.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20234022
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20234022
Wonder if this is a similar situation to the exploding Samsung notes. Faulty battery manufacturing.
Seems like the person filing is inhaling a fair bit of smoke. Wonder how toxic that is.
That was my first thought. I'd be out of there. Though you might want to ensure its not going to catch that floor on fire.
This is a new low for Apple. A lot of memes were dedicated to exploding Samsung Galaxy Note devices and that has been laughing stock for years now. Bursting batteries in a "Pro" line of Apple devices is unacceptable. If you don't want to set your pants on fire don't buy pro from Apple.
Will these be banned from planes? (similar to samsung note)
Keyboards, batteries... what is wrong with you, Apple?
Don't forget the screen cable breaking and requiring the screen to be replaced.
Delaminating screens...
The convergence of aesthetics and capitalism.
Ultimately their products are priced/made too cheaply for the reliability that is expected. Increasing cost wouldn't sit well with the stock market however so it's a bit of a catch 22.
Ultimately their products are priced/made too cheaply for the reliability that is expected. Increasing cost wouldn't sit well with the stock market however so it's a bit of a catch 22.
[deleted]
So, turn off my seedbox when I leave home?
First a samsung phone and now this.
I wonder if they have grounds to sue, over Apple producing an unsafe product.
I find that to be very unlikely. Batteries are known to have failure modes that include explosion. It’s certainly not unique to this laptop, or even laptops alone. This is the only case I’ve heard about and it’s a 4year old laptop that had been repaired.
As such I don’t think it’s a fault in the design, necessarily.
As such I don’t think it’s a fault in the design, necessarily.
Also in the news today, many houses caught fire due to electrical faults. [0]
Things go wrong. The world isn’t perfect. There are many millions of MacBooks Pro in circulation.
Next.
[0]: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=house+fire&iar=news&df=d&ia=news
Things go wrong. The world isn’t perfect. There are many millions of MacBooks Pro in circulation.
Next.
[0]: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=house+fire&iar=news&df=d&ia=news
Wait till it happens to you.
They took the hard drive out. Opening the case released pressure on the swelling battery. As soon as it was open the battery started swelling faster. The case could never have been closed again. The whole enclosure bent like a soda can. I should have figured out earlier what was going on. The first sign was the computer started to seem wobbly if you stuck it on the desk and typed on the internal KB. I thought the little rubber feet on the bottom were worn, in actuality it was the case starting to deform. What finally figured it out for me was the swelling started to make the keyboard stop functioning properly. Some keys were stuck.
It got stuffed in a bag and run over to the Apple store (which is only about 200 yards away).
Never heard a word about it again, they threw my HDD in another MBP and I was off and running with almost no downtime.
Of course that was like a 2013 MBP, that would not happen with the 2018 one I have right now since they can't be opened with a screwdriver and the internal SSD is soldered.