The Nightjet: A Big Bet on Train Travelers Who Take It Slow(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
The Nightjet: A Big Bet on Train Travelers Who Take It Slow
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/23/business/overnight-train-austria.html
53 comments
[deleted]
What did you do the rest of the week?
Worked, usually. Was working on vision system for autonomous cars (in our case, an RV sized “bus” because of the size of the computing gear) for Daimler-Benz Research as part of Prometheus.
That 'bus' still has its own page:
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/ko/The-P...
That's a supercool job, I was just wondering how you slept, hopefully not under your desk.
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/ko/The-P...
That's a supercool job, I was just wondering how you slept, hopefully not under your desk.
Oh, sorry I didn’t get that. We had company dorms in Bad Cannstatt.
Yes; that was the bus. My computer system would often be driving the green monitor visible on the right side of the instrument cluster while testing. (That shot is just a camera image, sadly.)
Network of Inmos transputers, running Occam. I’d never heard of Occam or message passing or done parallel programming when I got on the plane and within a few weeks, I was pretty up to speed (thanks to good mentorship).
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/picture....
Yes; that was the bus. My computer system would often be driving the green monitor visible on the right side of the instrument cluster while testing. (That shot is just a camera image, sadly.)
Network of Inmos transputers, running Occam. I’d never heard of Occam or message passing or done parallel programming when I got on the plane and within a few weeks, I was pretty up to speed (thanks to good mentorship).
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/picture....
Very nice, and super nice of MB too to keep this documented. I hope you're working on something at least as interesting at the moment.
Having lived in several European countries, I would say that ÖBB offers some of the best services anywhere in Europe. In addition to those night services, they are also frontrunners in other highly innovative lines of business, for example train services that allow you to take a bike or a car to solve last-mile mobility problems etc.
That said: ÖBB gets € 700 million per year in subsidies from the Austrian taxpayer in addition to loans guaranteed by the taxpayer etc [1] some politicians use the number € 4.7 billion per year if you some up all the different modes of wealth-transfer (although that number is contested [2]). To put this in context for a very small country: It's a similar order of magnitude as all of the taxpayer-funded science funding in Austria [3]
[1] https://konzern.oebb.at/de/ueber-den-konzern/fakten/subventi... [2] https://konzern.oebb.at/de/ueber-den-konzern/fakten/steuerge... [3] https://investinaustria.at/de/forschung-entwicklung/forschun...
That said: ÖBB gets € 700 million per year in subsidies from the Austrian taxpayer in addition to loans guaranteed by the taxpayer etc [1] some politicians use the number € 4.7 billion per year if you some up all the different modes of wealth-transfer (although that number is contested [2]). To put this in context for a very small country: It's a similar order of magnitude as all of the taxpayer-funded science funding in Austria [3]
[1] https://konzern.oebb.at/de/ueber-den-konzern/fakten/subventi... [2] https://konzern.oebb.at/de/ueber-den-konzern/fakten/steuerge... [3] https://investinaustria.at/de/forschung-entwicklung/forschun...
My mother's Austrian and I lived in Austria for a year, teaching English.
On one day (and only on one day over the whole year) the train was late (by 20 minutes). The sense of uproar among the passengers was palpable.
On one day (and only on one day over the whole year) the train was late (by 20 minutes). The sense of uproar among the passengers was palpable.
Yep... unfortunately their tickets tend to be pretty expensive. A sleeper bed in a 3-bed compartment is between 110-140EUR one-way for the itinerary I usually travel. In comparison, I usually manage to get return airline tickets for about 150-200EUR for the same destination, which makes the train a very expensive option :/
Airlines do not pay tax for their energy used. ÖBB does.
For trips within Austria, you can save up to 50% with a Vorteilscard (66€/year): https://www.oebb.at/en/tickets-kundenkarten/kundenkarten/vor...
I bought the card last year and it's paid for itself with just a few trips into Vienna and back (I'm in Tirol).
I bought the card last year and it's paid for itself with just a few trips into Vienna and back (I'm in Tirol).
True: The customer loyalty card is a very common screw-over (ahem price differentiation tactic) to make tourists pay more than domestic/regular customers. It's done by most railway companies in most countries though.
I took a night train once in Japan, which while it was an interesting experience and I'm glad that I did it, it was rather hard to actually sleep. You can't get around the fact that you're constantly being shunted back and forth. It's also noisy because of the contact with the rails, and the noise is irregular unlike the noisy but regular sound of air and turbines on a plane.
Edit: I believe it was this service, now discontinued: https://jprail.com/trains/sort-by-type/overnight-trains/over...
Edit: I believe it was this service, now discontinued: https://jprail.com/trains/sort-by-type/overnight-trains/over...
Interesting; I find that a lot of people prefer the rocking of a train to the continuous whine of plane engines when trying to sleep…
The "rocking" only occurs as the train is moving steadily across open country. An overnight train between cities, a slow train, will be stopping at stations and constantly adjusting its speed for various rail situations. It may be even be adding or removing cars. The resulting motion isn't akin to the steady repetitive motion of a ship. It can be more like a car negotiating stop-and-go traffic.
I sleep like a babe in actual sleeper cars, which I've only had the pleasure of taking in Thailand.
Sleeping in a comfy Amtrak/Eurostar/Shinkansen chair is much nicer than economy-class air travel, but you're still upright.
I'm one of those people who finds the sensation of rail travel comforting. YMMV.
Sleeping in a comfy Amtrak/Eurostar/Shinkansen chair is much nicer than economy-class air travel, but you're still upright.
I'm one of those people who finds the sensation of rail travel comforting. YMMV.
It wasn't much like being rocked to sleep :-) It's an irregular shunting and shoving. I guess it works for some people, but not for me.
Interestingly there is a hostel in Tokyo that uses parts from the Hokutosei trains called train hostel Hokutosei. If you have never spent time in a sleeper train, it's a unique experience, and much quieter.
We found the same going from Munich to Paris a couple of years ago. I'd probably book a cheap hotel and first class daytime train ticket for the same journey now.
Overnight trains are pretty common in India. There are also a few trains with quite amazing service (at least back when I took them): the Rajadhani Express between Delhi to Mumbai was fast, comfortable and had some excellent food options. I would often gaze outside at the verdant countryside as we zipped by... Incidentally, being bored in trains was what got me into reading a lot. At first, it would be comic books. Later, I graduated to books without pictures.
I guess I didn't realize until just now how much being bored on trains influenced my life. If I didn't pick up a habit of reading for pleasure then, I don't think I would have made as much progress in life as I have.
I guess I didn't realize until just now how much being bored on trains influenced my life. If I didn't pick up a habit of reading for pleasure then, I don't think I would have made as much progress in life as I have.
I still take overnight trains sometimes and finish complete books, not thick ones though, and write more often in my diary.
Have you ever taken one of the few trains that run on Green Route[1] stretch? That region is pure nature, pure bliss. I have also trekked and camped in the area back in the day when it was allowed.
Unfortunately those trains are too crowded now, and it's nosier, people interact with each other a lot less now - on mobiles or listening to music or watching something on the laptop or phone. Speed remains almost the same. Crowd killed it for me, I could live with the slow speeds.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Route
Have you ever taken one of the few trains that run on Green Route[1] stretch? That region is pure nature, pure bliss. I have also trekked and camped in the area back in the day when it was allowed.
Unfortunately those trains are too crowded now, and it's nosier, people interact with each other a lot less now - on mobiles or listening to music or watching something on the laptop or phone. Speed remains almost the same. Crowd killed it for me, I could live with the slow speeds.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Route
I once took an overnight bus across the south of India which had bunk beds instead of seats. Loved the idea, but in practice I got like one hour of sleep... Honking at bad drivers at 3am, dodging potholes, etc...
I took an Amtrak from Philly to Orlando. It was 24 hours. We got the sleeper car. It was really great, honestly. Very relaxing. Downside it was expensive: $700 round trip. It did include 3 meals each way though.
Is that the Auto-Train, where you can take your car along?
Nope, Auto-Train is Virginia to Florida.
Weird headline: Why would it matter that the night train is slow? You start at 8 pm - 10 pm and arrive at 7 am - 9 am, of course the average speed is low. So what?
The alternative would be paying a hotel, getting up at 4 am, getting to the airport, taking a 1 - 2 hour flight and arriving to the city a bit later than with the night train. But it was a fast flight...
The alternative would be paying a hotel, getting up at 4 am, getting to the airport, taking a 1 - 2 hour flight and arriving to the city a bit later than with the night train. But it was a fast flight...
Not a wierd headline at all. If you read the article you will find that your point is precisely part of the whole point of the Nightjet concept.
I took the Nightjet a couple of months ago because I love sleeping on American trains. The Nightjet was awful. The mattress was thin and uncomfortable and the electric power cut out every time the train stopped (which was often). Since I use a CPAP, this meant I never got any sleep. Electricity has always been reliable for me on Amtrak.
VIA Rail in Canada ran such a train between Toronto and Montreal starting in early 2000. It was cancelled due to lack of ridership in 2005. The trains left Toronto and Montreal at 11:30pm and arrived in Montreal at 8:00am and Toronto at 8:20am, stopping along the way to kill time since the trip is usually about 5 hours.
Maybe it's the right time to bring it back.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_(Via_Rail_train)
Maybe it's the right time to bring it back.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_(Via_Rail_train)
This service sounds exciting. My girlfriend and I like flying in and out of Brussels from the U.S., so we look forward to using it.
Last month we took an overnight train from Bucharest (Sinaia) to Budapest. We enjoyed the ride very much, and less than $100 each for a private cabin seemed like quite a bargain. If you have a little time to spare, and prefer to experience the journey rather than simply get from point A to B, travel by train is the way to go.
Last month we took an overnight train from Bucharest (Sinaia) to Budapest. We enjoyed the ride very much, and less than $100 each for a private cabin seemed like quite a bargain. If you have a little time to spare, and prefer to experience the journey rather than simply get from point A to B, travel by train is the way to go.
I've caught the ÖBB Nightjet a few times, and it's been great.
The only thing is, if you aren't getting off at the final stop, you gotta pay attention so that you don't miss your stop (they don't make announcements on the Nightjet, as far as I could tell, except for the final stop). For me, that meant I didn't sleep so well. But the time I was going all the way to the end, it was a great way to travel.
The only thing is, if you aren't getting off at the final stop, you gotta pay attention so that you don't miss your stop (they don't make announcements on the Nightjet, as far as I could tell, except for the final stop). For me, that meant I didn't sleep so well. But the time I was going all the way to the end, it was a great way to travel.
The ÖBB personel always woke me up when I had to leave to train before end station in the night. If it was in the morning I even got breakfast.
I went twice on a train trip, used the Nightjet multiple times (and some other night trains). Wonderful experience !
This would be nice along the American coasts. There are day trips I resist taking because I don't want to spend a single night in a hotel before an early flight or train. Being able to leave in the afternoon, take a dinner meeting, and then night train home would be perfect.
Amtrak has several coastal overnight routes with room options.
Funny, I just took the night jet to get to my Christmas destination. We decided that the hassle of getting a toddler on a plane was much more work, and even driving requires frequent breaks. The train was pleasant, although the quality of sleep is like camping.
Proposed musical accompaniment: Public Service Broadcasting’s “Night Mail” https://youtu.be/WFJPYi3JXw4
Anyone here tried couchsurfing.com? Is it really free to stay over in that community?
There's no money involved, but it's not intended as just a place to sleep for free. It's a hospitality exchange; someone will host you, in exchange for the opportunity to meet a new person they find interesting or want to help out.
Sadly, once the organization changed years ago, it became some bizarre money making scheme for the owners. They employ a small staff and generally try to keep the lights on, but they've never really responded to user complaints about the changed functionality. The end result is the community ran screaming to Facebook Groups (where they are basically disconnected social groups that only locals know about) which basically gutted the real online community, so now single dudes trying to get laid are the most common hosts, and new surfers don't understand that it's not a free Airbnb. It's still active for hosting/surfing, it's just less useful now.
Sadly, once the organization changed years ago, it became some bizarre money making scheme for the owners. They employ a small staff and generally try to keep the lights on, but they've never really responded to user complaints about the changed functionality. The end result is the community ran screaming to Facebook Groups (where they are basically disconnected social groups that only locals know about) which basically gutted the real online community, so now single dudes trying to get laid are the most common hosts, and new surfers don't understand that it's not a free Airbnb. It's still active for hosting/surfing, it's just less useful now.
>There's no money involved, but it's not intended as just a place to sleep for free. It's a hospitality exchange; someone will host you, in exchange for the opportunity to meet a new person they find interesting or want to help out.
That wasn't the case with couchsurfing.com when I was involved (back in 2006-2012 or so). We had many hosts who just gave us the keys and weren't even staying at the same place, and others who left us totally on our own in part of their house. A few we've chatted or had a meal together during our stay, but it wasn't about the hospitality and it was totally whether you wanted or not.
That wasn't the case with couchsurfing.com when I was involved (back in 2006-2012 or so). We had many hosts who just gave us the keys and weren't even staying at the same place, and others who left us totally on our own in part of their house. A few we've chatted or had a meal together during our stay, but it wasn't about the hospitality and it was totally whether you wanted or not.
I have used and hosted extensively on couchsurfing, but before the AirBNB days. I don't think the community is quite as thriving as it once was, but yes it is actually free.
Wondering ... why don't homeless people use this service?
I imagine some homeless people do, but not many.
It's a system largely based on reputation and feedback. Being unwashed, having a lot of stuff, not ever hosting, or having negative feedback will throw up red flags for hosts.
(Not saying that homeless people are necessarily like my description, but I imagine those would be factors in being rejected).
It's a system largely based on reputation and feedback. Being unwashed, having a lot of stuff, not ever hosting, or having negative feedback will throw up red flags for hosts.
(Not saying that homeless people are necessarily like my description, but I imagine those would be factors in being rejected).
I used it while homeless and woke up to an unwanted sexual experience and never used it again.
I've hosted one homeless person. She was living in her car and it was a temporary thing. In big cities, getting requests from car dwellers who need a break is fairly common. Some people list in their profile that they only host travelers.
It's not exactly a service. Of the people that would request to stay with me, I would probably say yes about 10% of the time.
If it was convenient, if they seemed interesting, respectful, etc.
If it was convenient, if they seemed interesting, respectful, etc.
[deleted]
Great question. Homelessness is similar to being broke and in a new place traveling as a tourist.
Yes it is, as is in several else. At least back 10 years ago and for about 5-6 years I hosted around 10 different guests (or groups of guests, e.g some couples, some sisters, etc) and have been hosted around 12-15 times by others. Some are still friends and in-touch...
Warning: long and without a conclusion. TLDR: I like overnight trains because they sometimes fit my schedule perfectly and the experience can be awesome.
This really made me want to take a trip to see my dad. My father lives ~600km away from me; whenever I go visit, I tend to stay for a weekend so I don't miss work and I have the choice between driving, train or plane. I take the train most of the time, my friends and family give me a hard time for it all the time because it's more expensive and takes a longer time.
# Driving / bus ($)
We have horrible roads, terrible drivers and it would take me around 7.5 - 8 hours to do this. The bus needs to stop for toilet breaks, in multiple cities so it's probably a cramped 9.5-hour road. Also driving myself, leaving Friday after work would render me useless the next day and then Sunday I'd have to come back.
# Train ($$$)
Leaves Friday at ~20:30 (8:30PM) and arrives Saturday morning at ~07:00. That's 10 hours of journey BUT, I go to the train station at around 20:00, I eat something, usually get a bottle of wine and hop on the train.
There, I usually get a single cabin ( also went with 2 people in the cabin, with 4 people and even with 6! just for the adventure ) with a private shower and toilet inside. I take a quick shower because I usually go straight from work, I then kinda chill and enjoy the landscape, open up the wine, start reading a good book and really by midnight, the gentle rocking of the train and the moonlit mountains knock me out. Maybe the wine also.
In the morning, a knock on my door usually 30 min before arriving at the station, it's the steward bringing me a sandwich, coffee/tea, and water and letting me know we're about to arrive. From there, I walk to my dad's house (it's around a 15-minute walk) and there I am ready to hang out Saturday the whole day and Sunday up until ~20:30 again when I leave for home.
In the morning, I take a shower, eat breakfast at the train station and head off to work.
# Plane ($$)
If I don't go to work Friday and Monday, I choose this option, alas I don't like wasting two days of vacation for a two-day weekend stay so I rarely do this. If I go I either go for a full week or just the weekend.
So, the plane leaves Saturday at 06:45... that means I need to be at the airport at 5:30, which means I need to leave my house at 04:00. This means that Friday, I get home, pack and of course try to sleep until around 03:00 and can't and when I finally sleep the alarm goes off.
I usually get an overpriced bottle of water and because the distance is so small, I can't really get any good sleep so it's around an hour cramped up trying to somehow sleep. After this wonderful time, I arrive but wait, my father lives in another city with no airport, so the closest airport is 90 minutes driving. He needs to also wake up on a Saturday at 06:00 to come to pick me up.
Once I get there, it's all fine and nice, we talk and laugh but when I get home I can't help crashing. That means I wake up somewhere afternoon, groggy and go eat something with my dad and catch up. Then I usually get tired in the evening and I kinda need to go catch some shut-eye because Sunday morning at 06:45 the plane flies back home. This time I sleep no problem, but we still need to wake up early as hell, and then I get worried for my dad when he drives back.
Note that in this case, the plane is cheaper than the train, it's because I usually go in a single cabin luxury 1st class (lol, it's really not as fancy as it sounds, here are three pictures from the last time I went[0]).
Paying a grand total of ~110€ vs the cheaper ~30€ flight to get there and back and spending more time on the road might seem dumb, but I think, in this case, it's really worth it. The cheapest way to get there and back by train, in a sleeping cart is also around 30€.
[0] https://imgur.com/a/dquwwJF - note the two beds, that's the double cabin. What they do when you get a single, you still get the double beds, but no bunkmate :(
This really made me want to take a trip to see my dad. My father lives ~600km away from me; whenever I go visit, I tend to stay for a weekend so I don't miss work and I have the choice between driving, train or plane. I take the train most of the time, my friends and family give me a hard time for it all the time because it's more expensive and takes a longer time.
# Driving / bus ($)
We have horrible roads, terrible drivers and it would take me around 7.5 - 8 hours to do this. The bus needs to stop for toilet breaks, in multiple cities so it's probably a cramped 9.5-hour road. Also driving myself, leaving Friday after work would render me useless the next day and then Sunday I'd have to come back.
# Train ($$$)
Leaves Friday at ~20:30 (8:30PM) and arrives Saturday morning at ~07:00. That's 10 hours of journey BUT, I go to the train station at around 20:00, I eat something, usually get a bottle of wine and hop on the train.
There, I usually get a single cabin ( also went with 2 people in the cabin, with 4 people and even with 6! just for the adventure ) with a private shower and toilet inside. I take a quick shower because I usually go straight from work, I then kinda chill and enjoy the landscape, open up the wine, start reading a good book and really by midnight, the gentle rocking of the train and the moonlit mountains knock me out. Maybe the wine also.
In the morning, a knock on my door usually 30 min before arriving at the station, it's the steward bringing me a sandwich, coffee/tea, and water and letting me know we're about to arrive. From there, I walk to my dad's house (it's around a 15-minute walk) and there I am ready to hang out Saturday the whole day and Sunday up until ~20:30 again when I leave for home.
In the morning, I take a shower, eat breakfast at the train station and head off to work.
# Plane ($$)
If I don't go to work Friday and Monday, I choose this option, alas I don't like wasting two days of vacation for a two-day weekend stay so I rarely do this. If I go I either go for a full week or just the weekend.
So, the plane leaves Saturday at 06:45... that means I need to be at the airport at 5:30, which means I need to leave my house at 04:00. This means that Friday, I get home, pack and of course try to sleep until around 03:00 and can't and when I finally sleep the alarm goes off.
I usually get an overpriced bottle of water and because the distance is so small, I can't really get any good sleep so it's around an hour cramped up trying to somehow sleep. After this wonderful time, I arrive but wait, my father lives in another city with no airport, so the closest airport is 90 minutes driving. He needs to also wake up on a Saturday at 06:00 to come to pick me up.
Once I get there, it's all fine and nice, we talk and laugh but when I get home I can't help crashing. That means I wake up somewhere afternoon, groggy and go eat something with my dad and catch up. Then I usually get tired in the evening and I kinda need to go catch some shut-eye because Sunday morning at 06:45 the plane flies back home. This time I sleep no problem, but we still need to wake up early as hell, and then I get worried for my dad when he drives back.
Note that in this case, the plane is cheaper than the train, it's because I usually go in a single cabin luxury 1st class (lol, it's really not as fancy as it sounds, here are three pictures from the last time I went[0]).
Paying a grand total of ~110€ vs the cheaper ~30€ flight to get there and back and spending more time on the road might seem dumb, but I think, in this case, it's really worth it. The cheapest way to get there and back by train, in a sleeping cart is also around 30€.
[0] https://imgur.com/a/dquwwJF - note the two beds, that's the double cabin. What they do when you get a single, you still get the double beds, but no bunkmate :(
I’m curious which country,a broad to and from and which transport company,
Thanks!
Was very inexpensive and more than tolerable for the money saved while almost broke.