Ask HN: I want to resign with nothing lined up
72 comments
I quit my job about 6 years ago. I had savings to last me 2 years.
At first I thought I was going to do freelance work, but the longer I didn't start doing that the more I didn't want to do it. So after a year or so of playing with new tech and starting several personal projects which didn't turn into viable businesses, I began making some money with a website.
Because that profitable website and others I built afterwards weren't actually that profitable, 2 years after I quit, I had to do some freelance work to not run out of money. I had to do 3 years of small freelance gigs while growing an online business. So for me it was 5 years before I could pay myself without having to sell my services.
Not knowing from the beginning what I really wanted to do cost me 5 years of, let's say, austerity. Never really had any financial problems during this time, but I also wasn't comfortable applying for loan to buy a house.
I don't want to offer any advice, just share a personal story which might be relevant.
At first I thought I was going to do freelance work, but the longer I didn't start doing that the more I didn't want to do it. So after a year or so of playing with new tech and starting several personal projects which didn't turn into viable businesses, I began making some money with a website.
Because that profitable website and others I built afterwards weren't actually that profitable, 2 years after I quit, I had to do some freelance work to not run out of money. I had to do 3 years of small freelance gigs while growing an online business. So for me it was 5 years before I could pay myself without having to sell my services.
Not knowing from the beginning what I really wanted to do cost me 5 years of, let's say, austerity. Never really had any financial problems during this time, but I also wasn't comfortable applying for loan to buy a house.
I don't want to offer any advice, just share a personal story which might be relevant.
As a counterpoint I would just point out that 6 years ago was a fine time to do this while now is a uniquely bad time. As someone who took gap year that that happened to end +/- 2 weeks from the start of the 07 global financial crisis, I'd be cautious about doing it now. My 1 year gap with a healthy brokerage account turned into credit card debt, moving back in with my parents, and a 3 year gap(half unemployed half very much underemployed working an internship with 4 years industry experience). It all worked out in the end, but it took 3 years to recover to the point I was at right out of university. So just keep in mind that you're like 6 weeks into a year or so stretch of what will likely be the best investment returns and the worst job prospects of the decade. And by worst job prospects, I mean, forget software development, I found out from a friend that one of many places I failed to get a job as a cashier was because they had apparently laid off a bunch of the cashiers and told the accountants/white collar staff to start working cash registers so they could justify not laying them off too.
I did something very similar, with a very similar pattern of stressing myself into inaction, though my combination of savings and freelance gigs only lasted me about 9 months. I'd hoped I would be free to the winds for the rest of my days, and it... didn't quite turn out like that, to say the least.
Still, I'm glad I did it. Because a) I hated the job I'd quit and was much happier with the one I ended up finding afterward, and b) it answered questions for me about what I did and didn't want to do with my life. Now I don't have to wonder: I know I don't want to freelance.
Still, I'm glad I did it. Because a) I hated the job I'd quit and was much happier with the one I ended up finding afterward, and b) it answered questions for me about what I did and didn't want to do with my life. Now I don't have to wonder: I know I don't want to freelance.
That sir, is a great story, and great advice.
As someone who's already working on a side-project for close to 2 years, I totally get you. You have no idea how many times I wanted to quit my regular job and continue with my project only (then reality kicks in and i realize that I wouldn't last more than 4-6 months). I've invested pretty much $3-4K/month on my side project (besides me putting the work). Now, with covid, I'm still working on it, but I'm investing <$1K/month. Please read ahead:
Let me give you some advice, having worked (and still working) 22+ years. I've had my share of stupid code, trust me.
I do understand your emotional state of mind, been there a few times. This is no time to quit.
What you have, if I've done my math, is roughly 11K pounds. That is, to put it mildly, very very little. Things may not work out as you expect, and you may find out that what you think is 8-10 months, will end up being 6 months or less. Will you have the emotional power to resume yourself to only those expenses? Then what? You'd end up needing a job in pretty much really bad times.
Things will be bad (probably even get worse), and my take is you'll need a lot of leeway to be able to get a decent job and restart.
My advice is to work at least 3-6 more months, and save up all you can. Then, you can certainly get on that project you're enthusiastic about. Hope this helps.
Let me give you some advice, having worked (and still working) 22+ years. I've had my share of stupid code, trust me.
I do understand your emotional state of mind, been there a few times. This is no time to quit.
What you have, if I've done my math, is roughly 11K pounds. That is, to put it mildly, very very little. Things may not work out as you expect, and you may find out that what you think is 8-10 months, will end up being 6 months or less. Will you have the emotional power to resume yourself to only those expenses? Then what? You'd end up needing a job in pretty much really bad times.
Things will be bad (probably even get worse), and my take is you'll need a lot of leeway to be able to get a decent job and restart.
My advice is to work at least 3-6 more months, and save up all you can. Then, you can certainly get on that project you're enthusiastic about. Hope this helps.
Off-topic: Do you want to talk about your side project? I'm curious what is costing 1-4k/mo. Is it hosting costs, or are you paying others for work?
My side project is www.phot-awe.com
Marketing: 1.5K/month, someone to create videos using our app - 0.25K/month. 2 professional photographers + 1 junior photographer creating effects/transitions: 1.5-2K/month.
Marketing: 1.5K/month, someone to create videos using our app - 0.25K/month. 2 professional photographers + 1 junior photographer creating effects/transitions: 1.5-2K/month.
Follow londonder here too.
Have you considered another angle, which is that you may have a health condition that is impacting you?
I had a similar experience, I changed job/country but I was still feeling drained. It turned out I was suffering from a health condition which was draining my energy and I was fatigued all time.
Some of this may include but not limited to:
- Iron deficiency - Diabetes - Blood Pressure - hypothyroidism
Whatever you decide to do, if you feel like you just want to sleep and don't want to do anything for a while, check with your GP first and do blood tests.
Have you considered another angle, which is that you may have a health condition that is impacting you?
I had a similar experience, I changed job/country but I was still feeling drained. It turned out I was suffering from a health condition which was draining my energy and I was fatigued all time.
Some of this may include but not limited to:
- Iron deficiency - Diabetes - Blood Pressure - hypothyroidism
Whatever you decide to do, if you feel like you just want to sleep and don't want to do anything for a while, check with your GP first and do blood tests.
What was your physical condition? I find that I work with good enthusiasm on things I want to work on.
I suggest one more task before quitting: double check that you'll be well-situated for actually getting a job you'll enjoy when you return to working.
For example:
- If you wish to continue working in Scala and living in London, check the local job market for that skillset. Is demand growing or shrinking?
- Are London's Scala-friendly employers likely to be hiring in 6 months considering factors like covid-19's impact on the economy?
- Suppose that in 6 months, it turns out that no attractive Scala-in-London jobs are available. Can you easily move to another region where they're more abundant? Is there another language / stack in which you are (or can be) proficient and lets you get an attractive job in London?
For example:
- If you wish to continue working in Scala and living in London, check the local job market for that skillset. Is demand growing or shrinking?
- Are London's Scala-friendly employers likely to be hiring in 6 months considering factors like covid-19's impact on the economy?
- Suppose that in 6 months, it turns out that no attractive Scala-in-London jobs are available. Can you easily move to another region where they're more abundant? Is there another language / stack in which you are (or can be) proficient and lets you get an attractive job in London?
Take a week or two off. Let this slip your mind for a while.
Quitting a job can be exciting at first but VERY stressful when money run out.
Take time off, apply here and there see what comes back after your holiday.
First couple of years after university can be stressful and the first job or two are expected to be like that.
I had a contractor working for me who came and openly talked about this with me. After digging into the problem more, we found it is about the chemistry of the team and he was not getting along with their manager. He changed the job, got a lower pay and life continued fine for him. The point here is to identify the trigger than eliminate it.
I had a contractor working for me who came and openly talked about this with me. After digging into the problem more, we found it is about the chemistry of the team and he was not getting along with their manager. He changed the job, got a lower pay and life continued fine for him. The point here is to identify the trigger than eliminate it.
If its not doing it for you and you can support yourself for a bit, quitting is not a bad option. Not enjoying the bulk of something you do every day will destroy you... BUT... As someone who has done the rounds, I'll offer this bit of advice for what its worth:
1.) The grass is not necessarily greener on the other side of the fence. Have you got an idea of what you want to do? What you will accept? Even if you just want to leave, you need a plan. Otherwise you'll take something worse out of desparation down the line.
2.) Even if you find a "dream job" or even just a better job things always change. Especially in London. This might also be the case for the job you are in. Is it a temporary rut you are in? Like another commenter said, do you like the company but not the current position? If so the company might do a lot to retain you rather than see you walk.
3.) Exploit your network to explore options before leaving. Use the current situation as a chance to seriously look and to build a plan. Its easier to find a job when you already have one that to find one when you are desparate. I am sure you have but... If you have friends or connections at other places tap them up. You never know...
4.) This lockdown is doing funny things with all our heads. Take a deep breath, work out if its just the insanity of the situation that is clouding your vision. If you commute into London normally and now you are stuck at home, you might be suprised how much energy that city imparts when you are in there.
I have experienced this first hand. I mean... Its nice to have flexible working, to be at home and in the city because the opposite is also true, London can really bite you! But... London in the summer, especially after work in the City... One of the best places in the world.
If after all those questions your mind is still set on leaving, then you are making the right choice! Hell there is no wrong choice. We only live once!
Best of luck mate!
1.) The grass is not necessarily greener on the other side of the fence. Have you got an idea of what you want to do? What you will accept? Even if you just want to leave, you need a plan. Otherwise you'll take something worse out of desparation down the line.
2.) Even if you find a "dream job" or even just a better job things always change. Especially in London. This might also be the case for the job you are in. Is it a temporary rut you are in? Like another commenter said, do you like the company but not the current position? If so the company might do a lot to retain you rather than see you walk.
3.) Exploit your network to explore options before leaving. Use the current situation as a chance to seriously look and to build a plan. Its easier to find a job when you already have one that to find one when you are desparate. I am sure you have but... If you have friends or connections at other places tap them up. You never know...
4.) This lockdown is doing funny things with all our heads. Take a deep breath, work out if its just the insanity of the situation that is clouding your vision. If you commute into London normally and now you are stuck at home, you might be suprised how much energy that city imparts when you are in there.
I have experienced this first hand. I mean... Its nice to have flexible working, to be at home and in the city because the opposite is also true, London can really bite you! But... London in the summer, especially after work in the City... One of the best places in the world.
If after all those questions your mind is still set on leaving, then you are making the right choice! Hell there is no wrong choice. We only live once!
Best of luck mate!
I am in a similar situaiton. Really enjoyed my job until 3-4 months ago when there was a major reorg and we've gone back to the drawing board with a new product owner who is out of her depth.
It's not necessarily my career choice but rather the current working environment (scrums, daily standups etc.) and the underlying desire to make everyone as replaceable as possible although I can understand the business argument. Possibly a start up environment with some substantial upside would be better.
Our direct management layers are at best semi technical with limited coal face experience as a result I find it difficult to believe in their ability to deliver.
I won't be going anyplace for the next few months due to the virus.
It's not necessarily my career choice but rather the current working environment (scrums, daily standups etc.) and the underlying desire to make everyone as replaceable as possible although I can understand the business argument. Possibly a start up environment with some substantial upside would be better.
Our direct management layers are at best semi technical with limited coal face experience as a result I find it difficult to believe in their ability to deliver.
I won't be going anyplace for the next few months due to the virus.
Good twitter thread on quitting your job: https://twitter.com/adamscrabble/status/1100835023165493254
I've heard folks saying something along the lines of:
"People don't leave a company, they leave their direct manager".
i.e. a sideways move into a different team in the company or asking for a mentor (e.g. 10 years ahead) outside your team might make a big difference to your job satisfaction.
i.e. a sideways move into a different team in the company or asking for a mentor (e.g. 10 years ahead) outside your team might make a big difference to your job satisfaction.
Ask if they’ll furlough you so you can collect 80% of your pay from the UK payroll support plan until the pandemic subsides. If they say no, then quit.
Some money is better than no money, and free money is free money.
Some money is better than no money, and free money is free money.
> free money is free money
I disagree. In this case, "free money" is actually being shouldered by the entire country (including those who aren't even paying taxes yet).
Whether or not the OP should take that money is of course a different question.
I disagree. In this case, "free money" is actually being shouldered by the entire country (including those who aren't even paying taxes yet).
Whether or not the OP should take that money is of course a different question.
Are we really haggling over a few thousand pounds when central banks are printing trillions of dollars and OPs mental health is at stake?
This amount isn’t just a rounding error, it’s dust in the wind. Your disagreement is noted. Less Econ 101, more empathy please.
This amount isn’t just a rounding error, it’s dust in the wind. Your disagreement is noted. Less Econ 101, more empathy please.
I raised the issue because for some readers, the distinction may be relevant to their moral positions, especially regarding civic virtue.
Thank you for raising this!
Sorry to hear.
Everybody probably goes through that and to be honest: the first 5+ or so years out of Uni may be really non-inspirational...
8 months at 25 GBP isn’t the world.
The stress, anxiety and frustration searching for jobs (Brexit, anyone? CoVid anyone?) is magnitudes bigger...
In the first couple of years, learn what you are good at, what you hate and what people pay good money for. But that implies you will have many “not very inspirational moments”...
Keep things in perspective but keep a job that pays your bills: if you work 40h per week you can still work 40-60h on stuff you love. If you are good you can squeeze 80-120h/week of actual value add out of it (assuming you get things done more effectively than other entrepreneurs that surf tech crunch a lot).
Don’t limit yourself to the notion that you can’t build great things on the side.
Worked for me many years and paid off nicely.
Everybody probably goes through that and to be honest: the first 5+ or so years out of Uni may be really non-inspirational...
8 months at 25 GBP isn’t the world.
The stress, anxiety and frustration searching for jobs (Brexit, anyone? CoVid anyone?) is magnitudes bigger...
In the first couple of years, learn what you are good at, what you hate and what people pay good money for. But that implies you will have many “not very inspirational moments”...
Keep things in perspective but keep a job that pays your bills: if you work 40h per week you can still work 40-60h on stuff you love. If you are good you can squeeze 80-120h/week of actual value add out of it (assuming you get things done more effectively than other entrepreneurs that surf tech crunch a lot).
Don’t limit yourself to the notion that you can’t build great things on the side.
Worked for me many years and paid off nicely.
I'd give it a couple of months looking, applying & interviewing before taking that plunge; we're in dangerous times and that couple of months cash might make the difference if things go titsup.
What's the outlook for your company over the next six months? If you're going to leave anyway and further layoffs are looming in the near term, might be worth sticking it out to get severance.
I was in a situation similar to yours some years ago. The writing was on the wall for the project, but I was so sick of the job and wanted to travel so I gave my notice and left. If I had just waited two more months I would have been let go anyway with two months' severance, which would have given me a lot more travel runway/options.
I was in a situation similar to yours some years ago. The writing was on the wall for the project, but I was so sick of the job and wanted to travel so I gave my notice and left. If I had just waited two more months I would have been let go anyway with two months' severance, which would have given me a lot more travel runway/options.
Outlook is ok, not great but no revenue has dropped off (much won't be added either though). My understanding is that the management has made their best effort to make this the one and only effort required to continue operating. I don't see myself being laid off with severance.
You are two years out of college with a good amount of savings. Now is as good of a time to quit as it ever will be. You are not going to have more time or less responsibilities going forward.
£25 * 30 * 8 = £6000.
This is not sufficient savings in London.
8 months' savings is nothing. Personal finance experts recommend saving 6 months' expenses at a minimum, for people who have no intention of quitting anytime soon.
2 years is the bare minimum for something like this.
2 years is the bare minimum for something like this.
You are in a unique position and well positioned for this approach:
I would try to get furlough and I would approach it by changing how you work within your org. By changing how you work within the team to suit you you will either get fired/replaced/furloughed or you will make the workplace suit you.
Don't like standups? Don't go. Tell your boss you are working hours outside of normal hours and re-discover slack free coding.
I would try to get furlough and I would approach it by changing how you work within your org. By changing how you work within the team to suit you you will either get fired/replaced/furloughed or you will make the workplace suit you.
Don't like standups? Don't go. Tell your boss you are working hours outside of normal hours and re-discover slack free coding.
If you have already decided, then best not to discuss this. Just do it. New Inputs might add to the confusion.
My 2 cents,
If you are still contemplating, think about how you might feel, say after a week or a month. Because the state of mind then would be different. The relief of leaving a job one does not like is temporary and then the anxiety of future takes over, generally. Now with the current situation, it can add to the stress. Side projects enthusiasm is good but again anxiety about future can bring it down.
If it is possible to push taking the decision, talking to your manager, having clear work timings / notifications might help. Also since you have decided to move on anyway, maybe it is an opportunity to be assertive in asking for some changes you might want.
Look for what else you would want to do, take a look at other openings, talk to friends all these can add some objectivity to the decision and their consequence.
While the immediate pain has to be addressed, looking for a long term solution helps one make better decisions.
Good luck and stay safe.
My 2 cents,
If you are still contemplating, think about how you might feel, say after a week or a month. Because the state of mind then would be different. The relief of leaving a job one does not like is temporary and then the anxiety of future takes over, generally. Now with the current situation, it can add to the stress. Side projects enthusiasm is good but again anxiety about future can bring it down.
If it is possible to push taking the decision, talking to your manager, having clear work timings / notifications might help. Also since you have decided to move on anyway, maybe it is an opportunity to be assertive in asking for some changes you might want.
Look for what else you would want to do, take a look at other openings, talk to friends all these can add some objectivity to the decision and their consequence.
While the immediate pain has to be addressed, looking for a long term solution helps one make better decisions.
Good luck and stay safe.
I quit my job a couple years out of school, and it didn't really change anything for me. The next jobs were no more satisfying and I didn't make great use of the downtime. One source of anxiety was traded for another. My career was derailed further, and major life milestones didn't happen for lack of money.
Yet perhaps it was unavoidable that one must go through self -discovery. Maybe you can do it more efficiently that I did.
One perspective I gained was that you aren't short in time to change your life even in your job. You lose even more time later, as work and family become more demanding. If I knew what I know now I could have just kept my job and worked on something on the side. I just didn't know what to work on back then.
I also didn't spend on myself. It would have been cheaper in the end to do so, in retrospect.
Anyway, you don't want to be jobless during a potential downturn. At least see it through the virus period.
Yet perhaps it was unavoidable that one must go through self -discovery. Maybe you can do it more efficiently that I did.
One perspective I gained was that you aren't short in time to change your life even in your job. You lose even more time later, as work and family become more demanding. If I knew what I know now I could have just kept my job and worked on something on the side. I just didn't know what to work on back then.
I also didn't spend on myself. It would have been cheaper in the end to do so, in retrospect.
Anyway, you don't want to be jobless during a potential downturn. At least see it through the virus period.
I'm going to throw in a counterpoint to many of the people saying it's the worst time to do it. In my view, it's the best time to do it.
When times are good, it's hard to take yourself out of a job market where you can waltz into offers and get big raises every year by job hopping. The opportunity cost is high.
When times are bad, you don't have the fear of missing out of a big opportunity. Honestly, I've been trying to take a gap year for a while and I could never pull the trigger because it felt silly. Now it feels much more palatable to do so.
This does depend on your timeline and runway of course. If you're only looking for a couple months off as a hard cap, maybe not a great time. If you're looking for (or fine with) a year or so and have the financial flexibility to do so, then it seems like a perfect opportunity.
When times are good, it's hard to take yourself out of a job market where you can waltz into offers and get big raises every year by job hopping. The opportunity cost is high.
When times are bad, you don't have the fear of missing out of a big opportunity. Honestly, I've been trying to take a gap year for a while and I could never pull the trigger because it felt silly. Now it feels much more palatable to do so.
This does depend on your timeline and runway of course. If you're only looking for a couple months off as a hard cap, maybe not a great time. If you're looking for (or fine with) a year or so and have the financial flexibility to do so, then it seems like a perfect opportunity.
Do it. If you can afford a short amount with no job. You are skilled, you will get a new job. And once you got rid of the old one, your mind is open for new inspiration. You won't regret it.
Keep your day job, for a while.
That's why they call it work.
It's a tough job market out there right now. Even if you're working on your own thing I'd hold out a little bit longer and try to use your day job to fund your side project.
It's tough for everyone right now, stay in a safe financial place at least 12 to 18 months till this pandemic passes.
Check out StartupsForTheRestOfUs.com podcast, start from episode 1 in the archives. I think it will resonate with you.
Compartmentalize your day job as just work.
Focus on your software/side project to keep things interesting.
That's why they call it work.
It's a tough job market out there right now. Even if you're working on your own thing I'd hold out a little bit longer and try to use your day job to fund your side project.
It's tough for everyone right now, stay in a safe financial place at least 12 to 18 months till this pandemic passes.
Check out StartupsForTheRestOfUs.com podcast, start from episode 1 in the archives. I think it will resonate with you.
Compartmentalize your day job as just work.
Focus on your software/side project to keep things interesting.
Normally I'd say go for it. If it really is that bad, sometimes you just need to recover your mental health before you can begin to figure out what's next. Sounds like you have savings and are in a generally decent position to do so.
Right now, though, with the current situation, it's not as clear-cut. Personally I'd be really nervous to have to navigate the job market within the next 6 months, or to be relying on my savings to eat when I could end up needing them for a big medical bill (though maybe the latter isn't a problem where you live).
I would say: definitely quit. The question is whether or not to hold out for another few months. That's something I don't have an answer for.
FWIW I did something very similar a few years ago. Quit my first job out of college, after a year and a half, because I hated it. My plan was to "freelance" which I didn't have much of a clear plan for. But I had savings, and I found a few odd jobs over the next 9 months, and while I ended up having to find a new "real" job, overall I was very glad to have gotten out of that first one.
Right now, though, with the current situation, it's not as clear-cut. Personally I'd be really nervous to have to navigate the job market within the next 6 months, or to be relying on my savings to eat when I could end up needing them for a big medical bill (though maybe the latter isn't a problem where you live).
I would say: definitely quit. The question is whether or not to hold out for another few months. That's something I don't have an answer for.
FWIW I did something very similar a few years ago. Quit my first job out of college, after a year and a half, because I hated it. My plan was to "freelance" which I didn't have much of a clear plan for. But I had savings, and I found a few odd jobs over the next 9 months, and while I ended up having to find a new "real" job, overall I was very glad to have gotten out of that first one.
Back in the early-90s, I quit IBM Lab job the same way. I was single but had a mortgage, car payments, and just quit on a whim because I just could not work. Would stare at the screen and just couldn't do it.
I had the idea of creating a service to optimise poorly-running software because I did a bit of that at IBM. So I took 2 weeks vacation, cold-called and got 2-3 appts and quit. Didn't understand business or anything really. Only got one paid gig for $600.
Went into consulting for a few years while building software to sell. My girlfriend at the time got me into real estate and I developed a neat little package which netted me $90,000 first year (not bad back then) plus yearly upgrades. Then somehow got into telecommunications when the deregulation happened. Never really had a typical 'employee' job. Had countless failures, one medium success, and one big success.
Moral: Never wait until things are 'ready' before quitting. It's like deciding to have a kid; there is no good time. It's amazing what hard work and the threat of failure will do to one's motivation.
I had the idea of creating a service to optimise poorly-running software because I did a bit of that at IBM. So I took 2 weeks vacation, cold-called and got 2-3 appts and quit. Didn't understand business or anything really. Only got one paid gig for $600.
Went into consulting for a few years while building software to sell. My girlfriend at the time got me into real estate and I developed a neat little package which netted me $90,000 first year (not bad back then) plus yearly upgrades. Then somehow got into telecommunications when the deregulation happened. Never really had a typical 'employee' job. Had countless failures, one medium success, and one big success.
Moral: Never wait until things are 'ready' before quitting. It's like deciding to have a kid; there is no good time. It's amazing what hard work and the threat of failure will do to one's motivation.
Quitting a paying job without a followup already, will cost your salary anywhere from 15 to 30% hit.
That said, I have done the same twice. The first time I really just needed a break. I was classic burn out which is what yours sounds like. I recommend trying for a break, like 2 months non pay. You can work on your pet project, and after 2 months if you still want to quit, do so.
That said, I have done the same twice. The first time I really just needed a break. I was classic burn out which is what yours sounds like. I recommend trying for a break, like 2 months non pay. You can work on your pet project, and after 2 months if you still want to quit, do so.
counterpoint - I've done this twice and both times I ended up with a 15-20% increase in salary.
One thing that doesn't seem to have been said is that there can be a big gap in expectations coming out of college and into the workforce. You may have imagined/been promised the world studying hard problems, and are now a cog in a cube doing scrap work. That's a hard psychological transition.
This is a hard reality to adjust to and navigate. A lot of it has to do with figuring out what you really want and need. Many on HN then dream of having a side project take off. Others maybe want a high status job. Later, some decide family is more important and want work/life balance.
It's not just the job but designing the lifestyle you want and how to get there. The lack of that idea is what's really causing the anxiety at work.
This is a hard reality to adjust to and navigate. A lot of it has to do with figuring out what you really want and need. Many on HN then dream of having a side project take off. Others maybe want a high status job. Later, some decide family is more important and want work/life balance.
It's not just the job but designing the lifestyle you want and how to get there. The lack of that idea is what's really causing the anxiety at work.
If you are able to float free for 4-6 months, I encourage you to do it. It can be scary, but also liberating. Sometimes you need to grant yourself the freedom to realize that something isn’t right in your life, and it may take time to reflect, heal, and grow.
I quit a job that I was miserable at after 3 years out of uni. I traveled and I enjoyed life on my own for a few months. And when the time came, I ended up taking a job that paid even less than the job I quit (it’s not all about the money) — it set me up for real success later down the line, and I regret nothing.
Granted, now is not an appropriate time to be traveling, so that isn’t really an upside ... but if you have other interests such as your side project, that can be just as gratifying.
I quit a job that I was miserable at after 3 years out of uni. I traveled and I enjoyed life on my own for a few months. And when the time came, I ended up taking a job that paid even less than the job I quit (it’s not all about the money) — it set me up for real success later down the line, and I regret nothing.
Granted, now is not an appropriate time to be traveling, so that isn’t really an upside ... but if you have other interests such as your side project, that can be just as gratifying.
I’d take a few days off if you have any, and take a long weekend to ponder a few facts (some other comments have raised these):
1. Maybe I’m a bit burned out and need a break.
2. Or maybe I’ve got a health condition that I should check out. Talking this over with a doctor or therapist could help.
3. Everyone is stressed and fatigued now. It’s the only new normal.
4. Covid-19 will likely flare up again this winter. And a vaccine, if one is developed next year, will take most of the rest of 2021 to roll out. Or longer.
5. More companies will go out of business and more employees will be shed during that period. Some of both may be potential customers of your “project.”
6. Try to search for another job before you bail. Thinking about how you can sell yourself is a good exercise.
7. Interview for a few positions, carefully.
8. If you can’t find any good jobs, stay where you are.
9. Start working on your project now and see if it’s got real business potential or is just a pipe dream.
10. If you really have no project, and it’s a pipe dream, stay where you are.
11. Talk your situation over with a mentor or an older friend. If you have neither, stay where you are and find a mentor.
12. Face the reality that two years out of uni is nothing. In the sense of a career.
13. Face the reality that soon you will appreciate your job more when you see how many people don’t have what you have. Don’t feel guilty about not feeling that way now.
14. Your runway metrics are insufficient in the Covid-19 era. I’m not sure you’re paying enough attention to the economic consequences of the pandemic.
15. Be more discreet on public forums; you are over-sharing at least 3 key facts.
16. Be wary of taking advice from strangers, including me.
17. “Do it” Is not advice, it’s a remark.
Good luck, take care, and remember your country voted years ago to leave the EU, and your PM who is supposed to lead your county through that maze was hours away from being put on a ventilator a week ago.
It never hurts to take advice from Ferris Bueller, though.[1]
[1]https://youtu.be/HbR7axof1wk
1. Maybe I’m a bit burned out and need a break.
2. Or maybe I’ve got a health condition that I should check out. Talking this over with a doctor or therapist could help.
3. Everyone is stressed and fatigued now. It’s the only new normal.
4. Covid-19 will likely flare up again this winter. And a vaccine, if one is developed next year, will take most of the rest of 2021 to roll out. Or longer.
5. More companies will go out of business and more employees will be shed during that period. Some of both may be potential customers of your “project.”
6. Try to search for another job before you bail. Thinking about how you can sell yourself is a good exercise.
7. Interview for a few positions, carefully.
8. If you can’t find any good jobs, stay where you are.
9. Start working on your project now and see if it’s got real business potential or is just a pipe dream.
10. If you really have no project, and it’s a pipe dream, stay where you are.
11. Talk your situation over with a mentor or an older friend. If you have neither, stay where you are and find a mentor.
12. Face the reality that two years out of uni is nothing. In the sense of a career.
13. Face the reality that soon you will appreciate your job more when you see how many people don’t have what you have. Don’t feel guilty about not feeling that way now.
14. Your runway metrics are insufficient in the Covid-19 era. I’m not sure you’re paying enough attention to the economic consequences of the pandemic.
15. Be more discreet on public forums; you are over-sharing at least 3 key facts.
16. Be wary of taking advice from strangers, including me.
17. “Do it” Is not advice, it’s a remark.
Good luck, take care, and remember your country voted years ago to leave the EU, and your PM who is supposed to lead your county through that maze was hours away from being put on a ventilator a week ago.
It never hurts to take advice from Ferris Bueller, though.[1]
[1]https://youtu.be/HbR7axof1wk
Can you ask for part time? In bigger german companies you can force them to let you do 50% work for 50% pay.
Gives you way more runtime (less taxes to pay too), the option to ramp back up and time to find something new.
I also quit without a new job though. I knew that my position would be in demand and had already gotten and declined 1-2 offers.
I moved to a new city and ended up doing another 2 month part-time remotely while interviewing on the side. I managed to get a free month between jobs and found something much better (way more interesting, more pay (luckily enough for two, needed right now), and also sweet colleagues).
Gives you way more runtime (less taxes to pay too), the option to ramp back up and time to find something new.
I also quit without a new job though. I knew that my position would be in demand and had already gotten and declined 1-2 offers.
I moved to a new city and ended up doing another 2 month part-time remotely while interviewing on the side. I managed to get a free month between jobs and found something much better (way more interesting, more pay (luckily enough for two, needed right now), and also sweet colleagues).
Grind. Remove your soul from office work and do your side gig as reward. You dint have enough saved for anything. Perhaps ask for some mental health days or switch to part time for a bit until sorted.
No shame in hating a job but it’s much easier to find a job while you have one. You can take your time and find the right fit instead of grabbing the first place that gives you an offer. A few years ago I found myself out of a job with quite a bit to savings and while I eventually found a job, the stress of not having one was real.
With that said, any other time I’d say go for it if you’re comfortable spending full time job searching, but during a pandemic... it’s going to be harder to find places hiring.
With that said, any other time I’d say go for it if you’re comfortable spending full time job searching, but during a pandemic... it’s going to be harder to find places hiring.
Do you have PTO? Take all of it, as much as you can be allowed, and just treat that time as if you've already quit your job, and see how it feels. Ask yourself various questions. Are you able to work on what you want? How are you feeling day to day? Are you able to sustain your self-discipline to work on your side projects? This is the big thing that I've found when I felt like quitting; the productivity doesn't come immediately, you must train it.
Anecdote:
I have wanted to do this at several points in the past few years (3 years out of school now, first real job). Although I can't say for certain what life would have been like had I done it, I'm currently glad I didn't. I have learned a lot about myself and about perseverance, and the experience I have gained has unlocked more interesting opportunities for both the present and the future.
I have wanted to do this at several points in the past few years (3 years out of school now, first real job). Although I can't say for certain what life would have been like had I done it, I'm currently glad I didn't. I have learned a lot about myself and about perseverance, and the experience I have gained has unlocked more interesting opportunities for both the present and the future.
Consider adding something else to your life, particularly something where you are helping others. Is there any place you can volunteer? What are your interests?
Consider taking this assessment. It's helped a lot of people get their thoughts straight and make better decisions about their future.
https://www.understandmyself.com/
Consider taking this assessment. It's helped a lot of people get their thoughts straight and make better decisions about their future.
https://www.understandmyself.com/
I gave it a shot. Paints a pretty bleak picture :). I didn't think I gave particularly extreme answers.
I'm not sure how much this would help with a career decision .
---
You are less agreeable than 90 of 100 people
You are less compassionate than 78 of 100 people
You are less polite than 92 of 100 people
You are less conscientious than 95 of 100 people
You are less industrious than 88 of 100 people
You are less orderly than 95 of 100 people
You are more extraverted than 40 of 100 people
You are more enthusiastic than 53 of 100 people
You are less assertive than 68 of 100 people
You are higher in neuroticism than 78 of 100 people
You are higher in withdrawal than 76 of 100 people
You are more volatile than 77 of 100 people
You are higher in openness to experience than 49 of 100 people
You are higher in intellect than 41 of 100 people
You are higher in openness than 57 of 100 people
I'm not sure how much this would help with a career decision .
---
You are less agreeable than 90 of 100 people
You are less compassionate than 78 of 100 people
You are less polite than 92 of 100 people
You are less conscientious than 95 of 100 people
You are less industrious than 88 of 100 people
You are less orderly than 95 of 100 people
You are more extraverted than 40 of 100 people
You are more enthusiastic than 53 of 100 people
You are less assertive than 68 of 100 people
You are higher in neuroticism than 78 of 100 people
You are higher in withdrawal than 76 of 100 people
You are more volatile than 77 of 100 people
You are higher in openness to experience than 49 of 100 people
You are higher in intellect than 41 of 100 people
You are higher in openness than 57 of 100 people
Apologies. I gave the wrong link. This is the better link for your situation.
https://www.selfauthoring.com/
https://www.selfauthoring.com/
This is Jordan Peterson's "test" isn't it?
It's not clear if you want or plan to be an employee again at some point.
Do you intend to make a serious attempt at running your own business? Do you want to take a few months as unpaid vacation? When do you plan on interviewing for a better job, if ever?
My experience is that quitting without a job offer makes life difficult, but I'm not sure it's applicable to your plans.
Do you intend to make a serious attempt at running your own business? Do you want to take a few months as unpaid vacation? When do you plan on interviewing for a better job, if ever?
My experience is that quitting without a job offer makes life difficult, but I'm not sure it's applicable to your plans.
If I were you I would rather deal with the anxiety. At the beginning of the year a comment on an HN thread [0] lead me to the book "Learned Optimism", which among other things, deal with anxiety.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22093267
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22093267
It's not a great job market (and unlikely to wildly improve), but you're young and have savings. There will never be a better time to feel the satisfaction of quitting because you plain just don't like it there.
Some of the other comments have advice like trying to get furloughed, and all those seem worth a shot, but yeah.... just walk!
Some of the other comments have advice like trying to get furloughed, and all those seem worth a shot, but yeah.... just walk!
Practically speaking, I would wait until things improve with the pandemic and economy. Phone it in, do the minimum. A lot of people are doing this now, I think. The lock down, isolation, etc. is very bad mentally. No one will blame you for being less productive. Worst case: you get laid off and collect unemployment?
Have you considered other markets where your saved money can go further? For instance, Portugal? Of course, the downside is that the local market in Portugal, Spain or other less expensive European country will pay less and have less opportunities than the UK. But maybe you could do remote gigs?
You can try to find a new job first.
I just got a job at a bank (cloud architecture) and some companies are still hiring.
The job market is going to be weird for a while. Accepting that, you could still see if landing the next job is possible first, and take a little time between gigs to sort yourself out.
I just got a job at a bank (cloud architecture) and some companies are still hiring.
The job market is going to be weird for a while. Accepting that, you could still see if landing the next job is possible first, and take a little time between gigs to sort yourself out.
I would ask for some time off to look for new work. I had a very similar situation last year. Asked to take mental health leave for two weeks and found a job in those two weeks. It was still draining but made me happy in the long run
Glasgow, Scotland here: I handed in my notice the other week without something else lined up. Luckily I found something fairly quickly.
If what you are doing is not making you happy, delaying the decision will only make you more unhappy.
If what you are doing is not making you happy, delaying the decision will only make you more unhappy.
Only two years out of uni? ... I would have to say that the IT business isn't for you. What are you passionate about? And how would you go about earning money related to that passion?
I recommend looking at the source of your anxiety. Are you falling behind with your work? Do you have a lurking bug outstanding? Are you stuck on a problem?
I suggest taking a vacation and if possible, unpaid time off. If you can, try to get away for at least a couple months to clear your head.
This is a really bad point in time to quit with no alternative. Stick it out — maybe you’ll get lucky and get laid off.
Sounds like work sucks, but do things by the book. Get a new job lined up before you quit.
You should leave the job as soon as you possibly can. Ideally today if financially possible.
The longer you stay at this job the longer you do damage to your future self and prevent yourself from doing great things and living the happiest life you can.
The longer you stay at this job the longer you do damage to your future self and prevent yourself from doing great things and living the happiest life you can.
Nice runway you got there.
Do you know when the economy will be back to normal?
Do you know when the economy will be back to normal?
Do it. I’ve been in your situation before and wish I’d quit much earlier than I did.
The scala job market is good and only getting better. If you’re good at the functional aspects you’ll be considered for clojure/Haskell jobs too.
The scala job market is good and only getting better. If you’re good at the functional aspects you’ll be considered for clojure/Haskell jobs too.
> The scala job market is good and only getting better
Do you think the market will still be favorable while the covid pandemic lasts?
The OP said he has 10 months runway, and in normal times that would be more than sufficient to quit an unsatisfying job, but with the global economy tanking it's worth double checking it.
Do you think the market will still be favorable while the covid pandemic lasts?
The OP said he has 10 months runway, and in normal times that would be more than sufficient to quit an unsatisfying job, but with the global economy tanking it's worth double checking it.
Do it. You'll be ok.
Just my 2...pence haha
Do you hate your job, coworkers, or employer? If it's your job, do a LOT of research on what you'd rather do. If it's your coworkers, get a better job. If it's your employer, get a different job.
Consider maybe going back to school in a new field. I'm currently doing it now going into CS. I've learned I'm a tasked based person, not a people type person. I was in business but hated it because relationships arent as measurable in terms of achievement as an actual skill is. You may have to do some soul searching here to try and figure it out. Good luck!
Do you hate your job, coworkers, or employer? If it's your job, do a LOT of research on what you'd rather do. If it's your coworkers, get a better job. If it's your employer, get a different job.
Consider maybe going back to school in a new field. I'm currently doing it now going into CS. I've learned I'm a tasked based person, not a people type person. I was in business but hated it because relationships arent as measurable in terms of achievement as an actual skill is. You may have to do some soul searching here to try and figure it out. Good luck!
Can you elaborate a bit on how you came to conclusion that you're not a people type person?
I say that in reference to the type of job I like, not in the sense that I'm anti-social. Those jobs just never appealed to me. I've always worked with people who did those jobs, but they made it sound like you are constantly at the customers mercy. I always hated doing that type of work in like early retail stuff because I don't like the customer at my neck. I don't work well under pressure that way because I feel I can be overly objective in those scenarios.
I like programming and skill based roles. I like to come to as a resource and someone who is competent. I don't like being some faux salesman with no skills except how to talk to people. That doesn't have a realistic value to me and I can't drive myself to get better at...nothing.
I like programming and skill based roles. I like to come to as a resource and someone who is competent. I don't like being some faux salesman with no skills except how to talk to people. That doesn't have a realistic value to me and I can't drive myself to get better at...nothing.
Not a good timing, but if you can survive on your savings for a year, go for it. You can also just move to the countryside to cut your expenses if you must, right?
On the other hand I'm saving good money and I don't have to deliver to a particularly high level, but even this level of output is an emotional grind.
Feeling stupid because I should be feeling grateful to have a job. Had coworkers furloughed, furloughs at other companies across London, etc. Yet here I am looking to quit?
Facts:
I think I've already made my decision but it's been good to type this out. Any further input greatly appreciated.