Show HN: Ameelio.org – Free Prison Communication Platform(ameelio.org)
ameelio.org
Show HN: Ameelio.org – Free Prison Communication Platform
https://ameelio.org/
97 comments
"Currently, the situation is that two corporations own communication throughout the prisons and jails in the U.S (JPay and Securus)."
Did you experience any issues trying to get into this space? Any push back from the companies mentioned or from any of the state prison systems?
What a great idea! That testimonial from the blind person on your home page is very moving.
Did you experience any issues trying to get into this space? Any push back from the companies mentioned or from any of the state prison systems?
What a great idea! That testimonial from the blind person on your home page is very moving.
I love this idea and I'm sure the only reason I overlooked their job ad here was because they were only looking for front-end'ers, but this is what I can't figure out (or find anywhere): what is the basis for disruption?
The incumbent providers have contracts, long-term ones with revenue shares for the management of the facilities, so what is Ameelio's route around that? Is it the ubiquity (to whatever degree) of Internet access? Is it the savings of digital letters printed locally? I can't tell.
There are relatively set-in-stone relationships here, and I would love to know what their chisel is. I would also accept that it's a trade secret or other special sauce, which I accept as a legitimate strategy when dealing with bribe- and kickback-driven institutions.
The incumbent providers have contracts, long-term ones with revenue shares for the management of the facilities, so what is Ameelio's route around that? Is it the ubiquity (to whatever degree) of Internet access? Is it the savings of digital letters printed locally? I can't tell.
There are relatively set-in-stone relationships here, and I would love to know what their chisel is. I would also accept that it's a trade secret or other special sauce, which I accept as a legitimate strategy when dealing with bribe- and kickback-driven institutions.
First I'd like to thank you for the comment. You made me realize a mistake I made in mentioning JPay and Securus when I meant to say Global Tel Link and Securus.
As far as pushback from other companies, we haven't received any so far. There's nothing they can really do besides make their services more appealing. Currently, with Letters (our first app), it allows users to sign up, add their contacts (inmates), and then type out a letter and also are given the option to attach an image. Then we use a third party service, Lob, to print off the letter and send it. Given that we're just working with physical mail, there's absolutely nothing they can do to stop us.
One type of pushback we can receive is from facilities themselves. One facility returned one of our letters and said that you can't have anything in the letter that could be some form of encrypted message or symbol. In our case, that happened to be the bar code used by the third party service to manage their letters.
In the future, we'd like to also offer services like free video chat/messaging. In my opinion, we're not far from being able to offer those kinds of services. I can definitely imagine some sort of pushback happening in that space, but what kind specifically is TBD. I'm excited though, because if we can get to that point, we'll be literally transforming the system.
As far as pushback from other companies, we haven't received any so far. There's nothing they can really do besides make their services more appealing. Currently, with Letters (our first app), it allows users to sign up, add their contacts (inmates), and then type out a letter and also are given the option to attach an image. Then we use a third party service, Lob, to print off the letter and send it. Given that we're just working with physical mail, there's absolutely nothing they can do to stop us.
One type of pushback we can receive is from facilities themselves. One facility returned one of our letters and said that you can't have anything in the letter that could be some form of encrypted message or symbol. In our case, that happened to be the bar code used by the third party service to manage their letters.
In the future, we'd like to also offer services like free video chat/messaging. In my opinion, we're not far from being able to offer those kinds of services. I can definitely imagine some sort of pushback happening in that space, but what kind specifically is TBD. I'm excited though, because if we can get to that point, we'll be literally transforming the system.
You have to give wardens/politicians money to put any kind of technology in their prisons, so free video chat/messaging isn't going to happen unless some benevolent billionaire prince is funding you.
However you could do some kind of distance education via letters, remember math can be learned with just pen and paper and not the kind of shit we learn in highschool but the Terrence Tao Analysis from scratch kind. There's an old book called the Schemer's Guide by Iain Ferguson (spelling?) which is programming with pen and paper. Many opportunities here besides just communications, just an idea, I have no clue how it would work in practice.
Another idea is create social media or pen pal profiles for prisoners where they fill out a template and you just launch it for them, so they can find other people to talk to, many people inside have nobody on the outside, this is why facebook groups like Jail Mail exists and the like. Of course legal problems here, if some maniac uses your service who should be in jail.
Wikipedia search is also something I've always thought should exist via snail mail. 'What is <subject>' should return the entire wikipedia page or other encyclopedia page for convicts.
A marketplace for anonymous convicts would also be interesting that nobody has done, many of these guys/girls are experts in fitness since there's nothing else to do inside, they should be able to make some kind of money (again, depending on societal heinousness of crime) by being a motivational coach or something. I have plenty of other ideas, many of them require money/political connections which I don't have but just things I observed while in lockup wondering why are these petty criminals just rotting away in here when there's so much opportunity not just for them, but people they can personally effect to make amends for whatever they have done. I even met a few hundred song writers inside that wanted to be 'producers' and sell their rhythms or lyrics with no way to do this. Anyway good luck
However you could do some kind of distance education via letters, remember math can be learned with just pen and paper and not the kind of shit we learn in highschool but the Terrence Tao Analysis from scratch kind. There's an old book called the Schemer's Guide by Iain Ferguson (spelling?) which is programming with pen and paper. Many opportunities here besides just communications, just an idea, I have no clue how it would work in practice.
Another idea is create social media or pen pal profiles for prisoners where they fill out a template and you just launch it for them, so they can find other people to talk to, many people inside have nobody on the outside, this is why facebook groups like Jail Mail exists and the like. Of course legal problems here, if some maniac uses your service who should be in jail.
Wikipedia search is also something I've always thought should exist via snail mail. 'What is <subject>' should return the entire wikipedia page or other encyclopedia page for convicts.
A marketplace for anonymous convicts would also be interesting that nobody has done, many of these guys/girls are experts in fitness since there's nothing else to do inside, they should be able to make some kind of money (again, depending on societal heinousness of crime) by being a motivational coach or something. I have plenty of other ideas, many of them require money/political connections which I don't have but just things I observed while in lockup wondering why are these petty criminals just rotting away in here when there's so much opportunity not just for them, but people they can personally effect to make amends for whatever they have done. I even met a few hundred song writers inside that wanted to be 'producers' and sell their rhythms or lyrics with no way to do this. Anyway good luck
An offline Wikipedia by mail could be a good idea. When a page is printed and sent, every link should be numbered and they can mail back a letter with link numbers and get back the Wikipedia pages for those links, allowing them to browse it that way.
>You have to give wardens/politicians money to put any kind of technology in their prisons, so free video chat/messaging isn't going to happen unless some benevolent billionaire prince is funding you.
Having done a decent amount of IT work at prisons, this isn't really the case. What I did often see, however, is that various vendors would give a very long free trial and free hardware to the prisons I worked with, with the basic idea being to lock them in when the obscenely high normal rates kick in after the free year or however long the trial was
Having done a decent amount of IT work at prisons, this isn't really the case. What I did often see, however, is that various vendors would give a very long free trial and free hardware to the prisons I worked with, with the basic idea being to lock them in when the obscenely high normal rates kick in after the free year or however long the trial was
"One type of pushback we can receive is from facilities themselves. One facility returned one of our letters and said that you can't have anything in the letter that could be some form of encrypted message or symbol. In our case, that happened to be the bar code used by the third party service to manage their letters."
Here is example of bad scenario which I sincerely hope will never happen. Anything containing image (letter itself included) can be considered as encrypted due to a tech like steganography. They can get really creative there.
Here is example of bad scenario which I sincerely hope will never happen. Anything containing image (letter itself included) can be considered as encrypted due to a tech like steganography. They can get really creative there.
You can do the same thing with text as well, or any message that contains any entropy whatsoever.
There isn't one type of message where this is possible and another where it isn't. If you allow two parties to communicate at all, they could really be communicating about anything.
There isn't one type of message where this is possible and another where it isn't. If you allow two parties to communicate at all, they could really be communicating about anything.
The steganography your talking about really only works in digital formats, not printed
in this case "code messages" can be just as easily hidden in the text of the letter (in fact probably easier) then in the printed out image
in this case "code messages" can be just as easily hidden in the text of the letter (in fact probably easier) then in the printed out image
You are wrong. There is a printable steganography along with the pure digital.
Honest question, because I have no idea how this all works: if people can just send letters for the cost of a stamp then why do they use Global Tel Link or Securus?
Really great thing you're doing here, I hope it all works out.
Really great thing you're doing here, I hope it all works out.
If you think the letter prices are bad, try:
- $3.15/15 mins for a domestic phone call
- $15/20 mins video call/teleconference if your jail/prison has them and you/someone else are willing to fork out that much (You may be there a while and so have to stretch whatever money you have left as far as possible)
- I don't even want to know how much for an international call
- $1 for a single pack of ramen
- $5 for a 5oz bag of freeze-dried coffee
And even if you have the money, you'd better hope someone picks up when you get your phonecall and/or that you know people's addresses or phone-numbers offhand.
US Justice system is a nightmare.
Gotta love JPay, Bob Barker, and Aramark.
- $3.15/15 mins for a domestic phone call
- $15/20 mins video call/teleconference if your jail/prison has them and you/someone else are willing to fork out that much (You may be there a while and so have to stretch whatever money you have left as far as possible)
- I don't even want to know how much for an international call
- $1 for a single pack of ramen
- $5 for a 5oz bag of freeze-dried coffee
And even if you have the money, you'd better hope someone picks up when you get your phonecall and/or that you know people's addresses or phone-numbers offhand.
US Justice system is a nightmare.
Gotta love JPay, Bob Barker, and Aramark.
>US Justice system is a nightmare.
I would stop calling it a justice system, we have a legal system for which any "justice" is by pure coincidence
I would stop calling it a justice system, we have a legal system for which any "justice" is by pure coincidence
Not OP, but I spent 11 months technically in US Federal custody, but in practice I was incarcerated in various county jails [0] that they contract with. I have experience with PayTel and Securus. At the facilities I housed in the digital > printed letter systems were not offered [1], everything was through USPS or your standard parcel carriers for packages. Books from outside were allowed. Global Tel Link, Securus, and PayTel have a very literal captive customer base when it comes to phone communications. While almost everyone wrote letters, a phone call is a much different form of communication. You can actually have a live conversation with a loved one! You can hear their voice, and respond in real time. For this reason, we paid the price demanded by the companies. In my state of North Carolina, the maximum price of a local call through PayTel was $.40/minute. The long-distance rates were cheaper, and so people would get Google voice numbers to get the cheaper rate.
[0] Wake County Detention Center, Edgecombe County Jail, and Albemarle District Jail.
[1] I could absolutely see these systems being utilized. They could take the roundtrip latency of text-based communication down to a day if the facility had a kiosk from which we could send replies. I was told by people on the yard that this is how CorrLinks works.
[0] Wake County Detention Center, Edgecombe County Jail, and Albemarle District Jail.
[1] I could absolutely see these systems being utilized. They could take the roundtrip latency of text-based communication down to a day if the facility had a kiosk from which we could send replies. I was told by people on the yard that this is how CorrLinks works.
The benefits of using those services are that communication is much faster when you can just write up a message on your phone or computer and click "send". If you can afford it, it's the preferred way to go. It's better than having to wait for days upon days, and even weeks for your letter to arrive. Even though from what I've heard, a letter is much more personal and very much appreciated.
Speaking from personal experience in my family, this hits close to home as well. The for profit system is an absolute travesty and horrible circumstance. Thank you for spending your time working on something to fight back against this gross system.
The prices charged by Securus and other 3rd party services provided to jails are ridiculous and predatory. Competition would be great but I’m not sure they will allow it to happen without a fight.
They make so much money and portions of that money are shared with the jails the pessimist in me doesn’t see there ever being a free option for instant communication. I appreciate the effort and I think this space has a lot of room for improvement. Godspeed!
They make so much money and portions of that money are shared with the jails the pessimist in me doesn’t see there ever being a free option for instant communication. I appreciate the effort and I think this space has a lot of room for improvement. Godspeed!
What do you think are the best strategies to win that fight?
Lobbying Congress to use federal statue to prevent predatory behavior. What that looks like would be up to a domain expert. Price controls on communication services, prohibiting kickbacks to prisons, requiring comms be free and subsidized by government, or some combination of the above.
If you can show how inexpensive it is to provide the service, it becomes straightforward to punch holes in the story predatory for profits are using to profiteer from the situation.
If you can show how inexpensive it is to provide the service, it becomes straightforward to punch holes in the story predatory for profits are using to profiteer from the situation.
The letter to the inmate on the front page says "I really enjoy the work we are doing, I could see myself staying here for a long time."
Is it just me or is the specific wording of this not in the greatest taste?
The letter also has some grammar errors.
Not to detract from the good this company is doing.
Is it just me or is the specific wording of this not in the greatest taste?
The letter also has some grammar errors.
Not to detract from the good this company is doing.
I've passed on that feedback and I agree. We'll get that changed!
[deleted]
Amazing work! More power to you and others involved in this. I can imagine this is a huge blessing to the people involved. Thank you for doing this.
>I believe that a system focused on reformation would be much better for our society than a system based on profit. Why should a corporation be able to take control of communication between an incarcerated individual and their loved-ones meahwhile charging high prices knowing that it's their only option?
fantastic points. I totally agree with you.
fantastic points. I totally agree with you.
Thank you people for being human and trying to fight that horrible for profit prison system which I think is a crime on its own.
My name is Gabe and I am one of the co-founders of Ameelio. Though we only launched 4 weeks ago, we have over 1,250 users that collectively sent >3,000 letters across the entire country.
While it’s free for us to videoconference on Zoom and Facetime during quarantine, it can cost up to $25 to make a 15-minute phone call to an incarcerated person.
Some of you might be thinking: “Is it just a letter mailing service?” Though for many stamps might not seem expensive, costs add up. Many of the families lost their jobs during the crisis. One in three families with incarcerated loved ones is forced into debt by the cost of visits and exorbitantly priced calls.
In the past weeks, we’ve learned first-hand from our users about the challenges of staying connected.
* Carol is completely blind and finds it too difficult to send physical mail but has now been able to connect with her incarcerated nephew using Ameelio
* Ellie is stuck in Norway and mail would normally take weeks to send to her incarcerated husband Kasey who is in the US, but with Ameelio she can send mail in 4-6 business days
* Nikki explained to us it is much more meaningful to “read and hold” a letter “close to them” than to send a text message or scanned letter - her husband calls Ameelio letters “little treasures”
* Samantha shared with us that she cannot afford stamps to talk to her husband
Our vision is to keep reconnecting those that are impacted by incarceration through free technology.
While it’s free for us to videoconference on Zoom and Facetime during quarantine, it can cost up to $25 to make a 15-minute phone call to an incarcerated person.
Some of you might be thinking: “Is it just a letter mailing service?” Though for many stamps might not seem expensive, costs add up. Many of the families lost their jobs during the crisis. One in three families with incarcerated loved ones is forced into debt by the cost of visits and exorbitantly priced calls.
In the past weeks, we’ve learned first-hand from our users about the challenges of staying connected.
* Carol is completely blind and finds it too difficult to send physical mail but has now been able to connect with her incarcerated nephew using Ameelio
* Ellie is stuck in Norway and mail would normally take weeks to send to her incarcerated husband Kasey who is in the US, but with Ameelio she can send mail in 4-6 business days
* Nikki explained to us it is much more meaningful to “read and hold” a letter “close to them” than to send a text message or scanned letter - her husband calls Ameelio letters “little treasures”
* Samantha shared with us that she cannot afford stamps to talk to her husband
Our vision is to keep reconnecting those that are impacted by incarceration through free technology.
How does your company handle the costs of mailing or delivering the letters?
My name is Zo, I'm one of the co-founders of Ameelio. We are completely self-funded at the moment, so we need all the help we can get! We were recently accepted into one of Mozilla's accelerators, so this will provide us some additional funding. As a 501c3 we're eligible to receive grants and donations, so we're furiously applying to grants and reaching out to foundations. 34% of families with a loved one in prison fall into debt trying to pay for phone calls and visits alone (https://bit.ly/2YrmyPV), so we're committed to keeping our services 100% free.
Are you looking for a contributor? I would be happy to volunteer my time. I'm a software developer and am pumped about your mission.
We'd love to have some help with development. Please reach out to us. [email protected]
My college (Macalester) will definitely have some cs majors willing to volunteer. I suppose you can have them work on some minor/nonurgent tasks. Is this something you'd be open to?
For sure! Shoot us a message at [email protected]
We really appreciate your help :)
-Gabe
-Gabe
Actually, if you're open to it, hell yeah... sending an email.
You guys are incredible.
This is awesome. Thanks for building this.
Wonderful work, Gabe! Much thanks to you and your team!
There is already a similar service but it costs (very little) money called jmail.cc that I've been using that prints out letters and photos and mail them for you.
As an ex US federal prisoner (long story, teenager, petty financial hacking crime, extradited from a foreign country years ago) I am intimately aware of the terribad state of Jpay and corrlinks and all the other overpriced communciations methods for prisoners. What I do now is whenever I want to buy a new technical book I usually send it to a random prisoner not incarcerated for something heinous and do it with them via letters, it's good motivation because once a guy in jail for cheque kiting absolutely slayed a vector calculus book I was trying to do and I had to pick up the pace in order to keep up with him.
HN has their list of 'request for startups' and one of them is employ over 1 million ppl and I've always thought that the perfect situation for this is prisoners if you can somehow navigate the political arena to make it happen. There's just tons of people there willing to work and do anything to improve their situation, as long as you aren't Ikea maximum profiteering off convicts and help them as much as you help yourself everything should be cool.
As an ex US federal prisoner (long story, teenager, petty financial hacking crime, extradited from a foreign country years ago) I am intimately aware of the terribad state of Jpay and corrlinks and all the other overpriced communciations methods for prisoners. What I do now is whenever I want to buy a new technical book I usually send it to a random prisoner not incarcerated for something heinous and do it with them via letters, it's good motivation because once a guy in jail for cheque kiting absolutely slayed a vector calculus book I was trying to do and I had to pick up the pace in order to keep up with him.
HN has their list of 'request for startups' and one of them is employ over 1 million ppl and I've always thought that the perfect situation for this is prisoners if you can somehow navigate the political arena to make it happen. There's just tons of people there willing to work and do anything to improve their situation, as long as you aren't Ikea maximum profiteering off convicts and help them as much as you help yourself everything should be cool.
I've seriously enjoyed reading your comments. Would love to get in touch sometime and discuss some ideas. I think the book idea you do is awesome. My email is in my profile. Please reach out if you see this!
[deleted]
Hi I'm Kiran, the finance manager for Ameelio. We are 100% committed to keeping our tools free for users - they're some of the most vulnerable in society and it is a tragedy that they are getting fleeced by predatory companies.
As our founder said, we're completely self-funded and all volunteers right now. That's to say - we really need $$ to keep sending letters. If you have spare resources during these times, we would really appreciate it if you could help us out and donate! Here's a link: https://www.aplos.com/aws/give/ameelio/general
As our founder said, we're completely self-funded and all volunteers right now. That's to say - we really need $$ to keep sending letters. If you have spare resources during these times, we would really appreciate it if you could help us out and donate! Here's a link: https://www.aplos.com/aws/give/ameelio/general
> We are 100% committed to keeping our tools free for users
> Website: "All our users can send unlimited free letters"
But then in your landing page screenshot:
> To celebrate Ameelio's launch, you have unlimited letters! As our community grows, you'll have access to 4 free letters a month.
So which one is it? To say it's a "free communication platform" with "unlimited free letters" but then to limit it to 4 letters/mo as your "community grows" is disingenuous.
> Website: "All our users can send unlimited free letters"
But then in your landing page screenshot:
> To celebrate Ameelio's launch, you have unlimited letters! As our community grows, you'll have access to 4 free letters a month.
So which one is it? To say it's a "free communication platform" with "unlimited free letters" but then to limit it to 4 letters/mo as your "community grows" is disingenuous.
To be honest the 4 letter cap comment is just in case we run out of funding and is subject to change depending on the situation. This isn't some free trial exploit. Nothing we do is disingenuous. We are 100% committed to keeping our tools free for users. I know the world is filled with businessmen trying to take your money, but that's not us. But thank you very much for pointing this out. We need to make sure we're more clear in the future.
That's good to hear. I think if you made it clear that the level of service you can provide is proportional to the funding you receive, it would both fix this misunderstanding and serve as an incentive for people to donate.
This project makes my heart so full. Thanks for your team‘s hard work, meaningful and necessary work.
Y’all need to apply for YC’s non profit program (edit: I see you’re already in Mozilla’s accelerator, equally good!). I hope you can scale up to audio and videoconferencing with more resources and backing (donated compute, open source tooling like Jitsi Meet or similar) and chip away at the for profits in the space taking advantage of the families and loved ones of the incarcerated.
Y’all need to apply for YC’s non profit program (edit: I see you’re already in Mozilla’s accelerator, equally good!). I hope you can scale up to audio and videoconferencing with more resources and backing (donated compute, open source tooling like Jitsi Meet or similar) and chip away at the for profits in the space taking advantage of the families and loved ones of the incarcerated.
Thank you so much for your support! This is totally what we envision the next steps to be. Today we had a meeting with Rep. Josh Elliot who's pushing for the free phone call bill here in CT to talk exactly about that.
And thanks for the advice! We'll try to apply for YC's next batch :)
And thanks for the advice! We'll try to apply for YC's next batch :)
It's sad that as a society we've allowed those who are serving their time to be exploited, but this is a good way to fight back, and hopefully make exploitation of the imprisoned a less lucrative market for unscrupulous actors.
Exactly my thoughts!
Exactly my thoughts! Really, we shouldn't have prisons at all, or any against-one's-will system. Just take a look at Chicago. With the new attorney general, they've made it a policy to "go easy" on the violent crimes. The bottom line is: no one should be in prison, regardless of the "crime".
>Really, we shouldn't have prisons at all, or any against-one's-will system
Then what do you suggest we do with people who are harming people or their property? Speak firmly at them? For pretty much all of human history you have had three options for those who damage peace and society ... death, exile, and jail.
Exile isn't really an option anymore so that leaves death and jail...
Then what do you suggest we do with people who are harming people or their property? Speak firmly at them? For pretty much all of human history you have had three options for those who damage peace and society ... death, exile, and jail.
Exile isn't really an option anymore so that leaves death and jail...
I just want to say good luck. There's so much that can be done that isn't. Part of that is the system. Part of that is Securus. Part of that is lobbying. Part of that is just plain lack of innovation.
There's room here to innovate. I had a product that effectively allowed inmates to have a Soundcloud from the prison phone. It pissed off a few people.
There's room here to innovate. I had a product that effectively allowed inmates to have a Soundcloud from the prison phone. It pissed off a few people.
Could you elaborate on what your experience was and the pushback you received? It would also be interesting to hear a bit more about what you built!
Many states ban any kind of social media access by inmates, even through a third party
https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2017/may/5/texas-prison...
Obviously there's some nuance as to whether Soundcloud is social media, but the bigger point is that prisons want to control inmates' ability to communicate
https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2017/may/5/texas-prison...
Obviously there's some nuance as to whether Soundcloud is social media, but the bigger point is that prisons want to control inmates' ability to communicate
>the bigger point is that prisons want to control inmates' ability to communicate
For good reason. Uncontrolled inmate communications result in things like murder:
"The complaint alleges that Corbett planned several killings with Ronald Dean Yandell, aka Renegade, an Aryan Brotherhood leader who prosecutors say sits on the three-man commission that runs the gang. Corbett and Yandell were incarcerated 220 miles apart from one another, but regularly communicated through contraband prison cell phones, prosecutors say." https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02/01/ca-inmate-was-killed-...
"Consider the case of a, a 38-year-old Maryland resident who had the bad luck to witness a street murder in Baltimore and the rare courage to agree to testify against the accused killer, Patrick Byers. According to prosecutors, Byers acquired a phone while awaiting trial in Baltimore's City Detention Center. He obtained Lackl's name, address, and phone number and allegedly texted that information to a friend on the outside, along with an offer of $2,500 to get rid of Lackl. On July 2, 2007, the friend rounded up a couple of thugs and drove out to Lackl's modest suburban home, where authorities say the crew blasted him to death with a .44 Magnum." https://www.wired.com/2009/05/ff-prisonphones/
"While authorities say Johnson is the first corrections officer in the U.S. harmed by a hit ordered from inmate’s cell phone, other people have been targets. In 2005, a New Jersey inmate serving time for shooting at two police officers used a smuggled phone to order a fatal attack on his girlfriend, who had given authorities information leading to his arrest." https://newsone.com/753345/prisoner-ordered-hit-outside-of-p...
There are more examples, but I think these illustrate that it's a very good idea to have control over inmate communications.
For good reason. Uncontrolled inmate communications result in things like murder:
"The complaint alleges that Corbett planned several killings with Ronald Dean Yandell, aka Renegade, an Aryan Brotherhood leader who prosecutors say sits on the three-man commission that runs the gang. Corbett and Yandell were incarcerated 220 miles apart from one another, but regularly communicated through contraband prison cell phones, prosecutors say." https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02/01/ca-inmate-was-killed-...
"Consider the case of a, a 38-year-old Maryland resident who had the bad luck to witness a street murder in Baltimore and the rare courage to agree to testify against the accused killer, Patrick Byers. According to prosecutors, Byers acquired a phone while awaiting trial in Baltimore's City Detention Center. He obtained Lackl's name, address, and phone number and allegedly texted that information to a friend on the outside, along with an offer of $2,500 to get rid of Lackl. On July 2, 2007, the friend rounded up a couple of thugs and drove out to Lackl's modest suburban home, where authorities say the crew blasted him to death with a .44 Magnum." https://www.wired.com/2009/05/ff-prisonphones/
"While authorities say Johnson is the first corrections officer in the U.S. harmed by a hit ordered from inmate’s cell phone, other people have been targets. In 2005, a New Jersey inmate serving time for shooting at two police officers used a smuggled phone to order a fatal attack on his girlfriend, who had given authorities information leading to his arrest." https://newsone.com/753345/prisoner-ordered-hit-outside-of-p...
There are more examples, but I think these illustrate that it's a very good idea to have control over inmate communications.
We don't need to restrict inmates free speech as conspiring to murder someone is already illegal.
You probably want to at least monitor their communications though; there is essentially no right to privacy for prisoners unless they are communicating with counsel. That means restricting the types of communication they can use (if only for practical reasons).
I think most people would agree we all want to avoid scenarios like this:
"Inside rolls of razor-wire fence, behind a network of heavy metal doors, locked alone in a North Carolina prison cell for 23 hours every day, a high-ranking gang leader directed accomplices in Georgia to carry out a contract killing. Step by step over a smuggled cellphone, the prisoner instructed gang members in chilling detail: “Gag him real tight. Put something in his mouth. Put something over his head.” The plot, to kill a prosecutor’s father, was foiled in April 2014. The inmate – a founder of the United Blood Nation – was sentenced in November to life plus 84 months on kidnapping and related charges." https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article15...
I think most people would agree we all want to avoid scenarios like this:
"Inside rolls of razor-wire fence, behind a network of heavy metal doors, locked alone in a North Carolina prison cell for 23 hours every day, a high-ranking gang leader directed accomplices in Georgia to carry out a contract killing. Step by step over a smuggled cellphone, the prisoner instructed gang members in chilling detail: “Gag him real tight. Put something in his mouth. Put something over his head.” The plot, to kill a prosecutor’s father, was foiled in April 2014. The inmate – a founder of the United Blood Nation – was sentenced in November to life plus 84 months on kidnapping and related charges." https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article15...
It seems your fundamental premise that is that since a few prisoners are very risky, we should impose extremely harsh measures on all of them regardless of what got them in there the first place. Is that right?
That's a problematic viewpoint because the same argument can apply to any free person today: "some people in this neighborhood committed some crimes a while ago so let's keep an extra eye on those in the zipcode. Maybe wiretap their houses and restrict communication."
Will that sit well with you?
Those who profit off the prison industrial complex and those who simply hate certain populations want you to believe that our prisons are full of extremely violent people who should be dehumanizing and taken from society as punishment. A lot of people are there because they had the wrong skin color, got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, are truly innocent, got thrown in jail for a harmless "crime" like having weed, etc.
That's a problematic viewpoint because the same argument can apply to any free person today: "some people in this neighborhood committed some crimes a while ago so let's keep an extra eye on those in the zipcode. Maybe wiretap their houses and restrict communication."
Will that sit well with you?
Those who profit off the prison industrial complex and those who simply hate certain populations want you to believe that our prisons are full of extremely violent people who should be dehumanizing and taken from society as punishment. A lot of people are there because they had the wrong skin color, got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, are truly innocent, got thrown in jail for a harmless "crime" like having weed, etc.
> a high-ranking gang leader directed accomplices in Georgia
Small world! I knew a couple of the people that carried out this kidnapping, as well as the FBI agents on the other side of it. Jakym Tibbs, aka Jak, got 52 years, and Jevante Price, aka ATL aka Flame, got 20 years. Played a lot of chess with both guys. Melton, the gang leader that ordered the kidnapping and was directing the kidnappers to murder and dismember the victim, was already serving a life sentence when this occurred. They moved him to ADX Florence after this happened.
Small world! I knew a couple of the people that carried out this kidnapping, as well as the FBI agents on the other side of it. Jakym Tibbs, aka Jak, got 52 years, and Jevante Price, aka ATL aka Flame, got 20 years. Played a lot of chess with both guys. Melton, the gang leader that ordered the kidnapping and was directing the kidnappers to murder and dismember the victim, was already serving a life sentence when this occurred. They moved him to ADX Florence after this happened.
Do people outside of prison not also organize murders that could be described in similar lurid detail? Maybe we should monitor your communications in case you try something like that.
If it seems so imperative that we monitor inmates’ communications for fear they’ll order a murder, consider that there’s a more systemic cause that we need to address.
If it seems so imperative that we monitor inmates’ communications for fear they’ll order a murder, consider that there’s a more systemic cause that we need to address.
This looks fantastic. One bit of feedback: the lack of a Paypal option for donating almost stopped me from donating. The fees might be worth the security guarantee.
We'll get that fixed ASAP.
Do you need volunteer developers or other types of professionals?
We could use all the help we can get. If you'd like, just reach out to our email with what you're interested in helping with or any skills you may have. I'm sure we can figure out something and I'm thankful you're interested in helping us!
[email protected]
[email protected]
[deleted]
This is a really wonderful thing you're doing. Thank you.
Are you all working with
https://www.flikshop.com/
?
If not, I’m happy to put you in contact.
Do you have any (formerly?) incarcerated members on your leadership team?
https://www.flikshop.com/
?
If not, I’m happy to put you in contact.
Do you have any (formerly?) incarcerated members on your leadership team?
Are your products open source so volunteers can contribute?
I'm really glad you asked. Initially, the plan was to open source all of our tools. However, we decided to hold off on that until we pick an appropriate license for each project and do some more planning. We're looking for volunteers though and I would love to work with you on this. Feel free to contact us. [email protected]
This is a good cause, but the headline given to this post threw me.
Clearly, it's meant as "make communication between prisoners and their loved ones outside of prison free of cost"
But because of the phrasing, I read it as "make prison communication-free" or "make it be such that prisons are free from communication" which is a scary draconian dystopia that I can sadly imagine happening in my and many other parts of the world.
Clearly, it's meant as "make communication between prisoners and their loved ones outside of prison free of cost"
But because of the phrasing, I read it as "make prison communication-free" or "make it be such that prisons are free from communication" which is a scary draconian dystopia that I can sadly imagine happening in my and many other parts of the world.
> Nearly one in two Americans has a family member who is either currently or formerly incarcerated.
> 34% of families with a loved one in prison are sent into debt by the cost of maintaining contact.
Can you add links to the sources for these stats? They just sound unreal and I'd like to understand better how the cost of maintaining contact becomes so high.
Can you add links to the sources for these stats? They just sound unreal and I'd like to understand better how the cost of maintaining contact becomes so high.
Hi, this is Zo (co-founder).
"Nearly one in two Americans has a family member who is either currently or formerly incarcerated."
Source: Cornell University & Fwd.us study
https://www.fwd.us/news/groundbreaking-report-half-of-all-u-...
"34% of families with a loved one in prison are sent into debt by the cost of maintaining contact."
Sources: https://nyti.ms/35qNlNZ; http://whopaysreport.org/executive-summary/
Here are some additional sources on the exorbitant costs loved ones of the incarcerated face:
NYTimes: https://nyti.ms/3aVrqzD
Marshall Project: https://bit.ly/2y95Avf
Wired: https://bit.ly/2xsGRBJ
Prison Policy Initiative: https://bit.ly/3d3DtMw
"Nearly one in two Americans has a family member who is either currently or formerly incarcerated."
Source: Cornell University & Fwd.us study
https://www.fwd.us/news/groundbreaking-report-half-of-all-u-...
"34% of families with a loved one in prison are sent into debt by the cost of maintaining contact."
Sources: https://nyti.ms/35qNlNZ; http://whopaysreport.org/executive-summary/
Here are some additional sources on the exorbitant costs loved ones of the incarcerated face:
NYTimes: https://nyti.ms/3aVrqzD
Marshall Project: https://bit.ly/2y95Avf
Wired: https://bit.ly/2xsGRBJ
Prison Policy Initiative: https://bit.ly/3d3DtMw
Awesome mission, wishing you guys all the best.
But Ameelio sounds like Emilio. Using latino men's names is probably not the most appropriate idea for this
But Ameelio sounds like Emilio. Using latino men's names is probably not the most appropriate idea for this
Seems like a worthy goal. Hoping for your success.
Some sour negativity for good balance, from someone unfamiliar with criminal systems :
Are there mechanisms in place for verification of the sender and some potential criminal misuse of your platform?
Some sour negativity for good balance, from someone unfamiliar with criminal systems :
Are there mechanisms in place for verification of the sender and some potential criminal misuse of your platform?
[deleted]
I'm Jenny, and I am currently the Growth and Social Media Manager in Ameelio. We've been working hard to reach out to different organizations that work with incarcerated people and immigration detention centers to further spread the influence we can have, alleviating burdens - financial, emotional, and physical - that family members feel.
The Ameelio Ambassadors has been a great help towards spreading the word. They are a group of people who are passionate about bringing a change to the current communication system in prisons and detention centers, volunteering to increase awareness about the service we provide. Together with their help and the support we are receiving from organizations that responded to our outreach, I believe that Ameelio will able to bring tangible changes to the current communication system, envisioning a legislative change in the future that would provide the people with their basic needs: communicating with their loved ones with no burden.
The Ameelio Ambassadors has been a great help towards spreading the word. They are a group of people who are passionate about bringing a change to the current communication system in prisons and detention centers, volunteering to increase awareness about the service we provide. Together with their help and the support we are receiving from organizations that responded to our outreach, I believe that Ameelio will able to bring tangible changes to the current communication system, envisioning a legislative change in the future that would provide the people with their basic needs: communicating with their loved ones with no burden.
You should get in touch with Unloop in Seattle - they teach programming in prison and have a small freelance dev shop staffed by people who went through their program. https://www.un-loop.org/
Zo (co-founder). Thanks for sharing, we will definitely reach out to them.
Awesome work, looking forward to seeing this really take hold. This can be such a blessing to families and the mental health of inmates. Too many times have friends and family in lockup gone long times without hearing from loved ones because of the costs involved. Keep up the great work for a great cause.
This is truly an amazing cause! Incarcerated people and their families deserve better, and Ameelio's organization and outreach is going to provide an incredible impact. I cannot wait to watch this organization grow!
Thanks so much! Really appreciate it.
I read this headline as "Making Prison Communication-Free" and thought it was some sort of cruel experiment
If there's a better wording, we can change it.
Edit: I've changed it to the HTML doc title for now.
Edit: I've changed it to the HTML doc title for now.
Just a tip upon first glance...
You might want to make the homepage a bit more politically correct by changing up the first (and only?) two incarcerated ethnicities from being Black and Hispanic.
I am aware they make up the majority of the American prison population, but they really shouldn't.
Seems like a worthwhile project though. Good luck!
You might want to make the homepage a bit more politically correct by changing up the first (and only?) two incarcerated ethnicities from being Black and Hispanic.
I am aware they make up the majority of the American prison population, but they really shouldn't.
Seems like a worthwhile project though. Good luck!
twomoretime(4)
is Gil Amelio involved in this?
Nope! The name is inspired from the word "Ameliorate", meaning "to make better".
This is just Zoom. The partners and sponsors almost all conspicuously mention Zoom meetings and Zoom Celebrations on their websites. Especially because of the major WSJ story today on Zoom and the origins of the Coronavirus, it seems very implausible that anyone mentions Zoom anymore overtly without having an agenda.
The co-founders are all from Yale, and have the best of intentions, but don't realize they have to some extent been manipulated.
I think this phrase was a little concerning as well. There is a decent historical record that has been built up over the last 10 years of stuff like this being abused: "We also use machine learning tools to make predictions". What are they trying to forecast? When did talking and letter writing necessarily need machine learning? I'm not at all saying it is dumb...but we should approach all of this with caution and hesitancy.
The co-founders are all from Yale, and have the best of intentions, but don't realize they have to some extent been manipulated.
I think this phrase was a little concerning as well. There is a decent historical record that has been built up over the last 10 years of stuff like this being abused: "We also use machine learning tools to make predictions". What are they trying to forecast? When did talking and letter writing necessarily need machine learning? I'm not at all saying it is dumb...but we should approach all of this with caution and hesitancy.
Hi, I'm Zo (co-founder). We have no affiliation with Zoom. But given the fortune they’ve made recently, we would certainly appreciate it if they donated (https://bit.ly/2z7J4CP).
While many of us are Yale students, we come varying backgrounds. I'm a Nigerian-American (born in Chicago, spent my early childhood in Nigeria, and now live in CT). Gabe is Brazilian, Jesse is from Iowa, etc. We all connected on this project because we are committed to social innovation and want to do all we can to stop the exploitation of loved ones of incarcerated people, who are disproportionately low-income.
Re data and prediction: scholars of incarceration lament the dearth of data on the criminal justice system.
NYTimes- “Missing: Criminal Justice Data” (https://nyti.ms/2FUEkDq)— “Criminal justice data in this country is hard to come by. It can be messy and difficult to understand. And in many cases, the data doesn’t exist at all...Missing data is at the core of a national crisis.”
John Pfaff- Locked In (https://amzn.to/3aZYB5X)— “Perhaps even more troubling, there are some issues where we simply have no data, where almost nothing at all is gathered.”
Elected officials are creating criminal justice policies, that impact millions, with limited information. We want to inform better policymaking using data analytics. The folks are Measure of Justice (https://measuresforjustice.org/about/overview) are leading way, and we want to help where we can.
Scholars of algorithmic bias have convinced me that algorithmic risk assessment has disparate impact on minority groups, so I’m personally not in favor of these tools (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/1/eaao5580; https://ssrn.com/abstract=3257004). We will not be doing any risk assessment etc. Using past data to better understand and predict how the state prison populations might change in the future could yield insightful information.
In my home state of CT, “between 2008 and 2018, the state prison population has fallen by 30 percent, and the minority prison population has dropped by 32 percent” (https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2019/02/13/ct-prison-populati...). The article also notes:
“Marc Pelka, undersecretary of the Connecticut Office of Policy and Management’s Criminal Justice Policy and Planning Division, told the News that while it is “hard to pinpoint a single policy or trend,” he named a few reasons for the decline in state prison population.”
Understanding why states like CT have been effective in reducing their prison population could help other states do the same. I really appreciate the feedback, we will make our language around data analytics more clear. Please keep the comments coming!
Zo
While many of us are Yale students, we come varying backgrounds. I'm a Nigerian-American (born in Chicago, spent my early childhood in Nigeria, and now live in CT). Gabe is Brazilian, Jesse is from Iowa, etc. We all connected on this project because we are committed to social innovation and want to do all we can to stop the exploitation of loved ones of incarcerated people, who are disproportionately low-income.
Re data and prediction: scholars of incarceration lament the dearth of data on the criminal justice system.
NYTimes- “Missing: Criminal Justice Data” (https://nyti.ms/2FUEkDq)— “Criminal justice data in this country is hard to come by. It can be messy and difficult to understand. And in many cases, the data doesn’t exist at all...Missing data is at the core of a national crisis.”
John Pfaff- Locked In (https://amzn.to/3aZYB5X)— “Perhaps even more troubling, there are some issues where we simply have no data, where almost nothing at all is gathered.”
Elected officials are creating criminal justice policies, that impact millions, with limited information. We want to inform better policymaking using data analytics. The folks are Measure of Justice (https://measuresforjustice.org/about/overview) are leading way, and we want to help where we can.
Scholars of algorithmic bias have convinced me that algorithmic risk assessment has disparate impact on minority groups, so I’m personally not in favor of these tools (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/1/eaao5580; https://ssrn.com/abstract=3257004). We will not be doing any risk assessment etc. Using past data to better understand and predict how the state prison populations might change in the future could yield insightful information.
In my home state of CT, “between 2008 and 2018, the state prison population has fallen by 30 percent, and the minority prison population has dropped by 32 percent” (https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2019/02/13/ct-prison-populati...). The article also notes:
“Marc Pelka, undersecretary of the Connecticut Office of Policy and Management’s Criminal Justice Policy and Planning Division, told the News that while it is “hard to pinpoint a single policy or trend,” he named a few reasons for the decline in state prison population.”
Understanding why states like CT have been effective in reducing their prison population could help other states do the same. I really appreciate the feedback, we will make our language around data analytics more clear. Please keep the comments coming!
Zo
I actually discovered Ameelio last year through a Hacker News post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21129557) that didn't gain much attention. Zo, the founder, had reached out looking for support and contributors through a hiring post. When I read the post, I decided to look more into the project. My first thought was just "Wow!". I really vibed with the concept because it's something that hits really close to home.
I've had friends and family that were incarcerated before so I know exactly what it's like dealing with the struggles that come from that experience. When someone is incarcerated, it's not just a punishment for them. It's an attack on their families, as well. In my experience, poverty is oftentimes a direct cause for incarceration. Mistakes are made and you get put into a situation, a system, that doesn't value reformation, but instead looks to profit. To communicate with a loved-one on the inside means spending money that you don't have. If your family is struggling financially, it means that you're out of luck. This shouldn't be the case.
I believe that a system focused on reformation would be much better for our society than a system based on profit. Why should a corporation be able to take control of communication between an incarcerated individual and their loved-ones meahwhile charging high prices knowing that it's their only option? Why have we allowed that to happen? Being a part of this project is my way of stepping up and making sure we can deliver an alternative option for those families that are struggling.
I've received amazing support from this community before and thanks to you guys I've been able to focus my efforts on projects like this. Any and all feedback is welcome. If you're interested in using our app then feel free to check it out. It's free and we'll do all that we can to keep it that way.