Singing is the most accessible stress reliever(bbc.com)
bbc.com
Singing is the most accessible stress reliever
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200518-why-singing-can-make-you-feel-better-in-lockdown
82 comments
Terrence McKenna believed stress relief is the reason that so many shamanic rituals include singing and steady drum beats. The anxiety surrounding communication with the dead or the gods is released through the music. He also pointed out rightly that singing requires deep, slow breathing, which prevents hyperventilation and its attendant stress. More practically, his recommendation for bad drug trips is to sing or hum a low and slow tune. I can unfortunately attest to the effectiveness of this technique.
"He also pointed out rightly that singing requires deep, slow breathing"
I would generalize that "breathing is the most accessible stress reliever".
Breathing consciously is the single thing you can do always to relieve stress and get your hormons in balance again.
Singing and chanting and drumming can be even more powerful obviously, but you cannot always do that, but you can (and should) always breathe the right way.
I would generalize that "breathing is the most accessible stress reliever".
Breathing consciously is the single thing you can do always to relieve stress and get your hormons in balance again.
Singing and chanting and drumming can be even more powerful obviously, but you cannot always do that, but you can (and should) always breathe the right way.
Agreed, I believe in the absence of a scientific explanation in terms of increased blood flow or nitric oxide breaching the blood brain barrier, the solution had simply been codified in pre-scientific cultures as "one weird trick" for combating anxiety.
It's all about focus. Whether it's painting or rock climbing or play violin.
+1 for singings your way out of a bad trip. To paraphrase McKenna, If you find yourself in hell start singing. It will take you all the way to heaven.
what happens in a bad drug trip?
It feels like a combination of a visceral nightmare and a panic attack, if you've had one of those.
It depends on the trip/person but typically paranoia and panic attack type feelings. Toss in some bad/scary hallucinations as well.
depends on the substance, but usually stuff like paranoia and in general being stuck [seeing / thinking about] unpleasant things
I wish there was a good way to sing together over videochat. The lag makes it impossible--if you've tried singing Happy birthday to someone over Zoom, you've probably noticed that it's the worst! Everyone tries to adjust to everyone else's lag and it just makes everyone even more and more out of time with each other.
It is incredible how even minuscule delays can be heard. I first laughed about calibrating sound systems with microphones to compensate for different cable lengths until a sound engineer let me listen to the differences.
He could hear if a box had a delay about 2-3ms. Quite hard requirements.
He could hear if a box had a delay about 2-3ms. Quite hard requirements.
Note that delays can also be an issue when singing in real life. In a large church choir, people in the back have to start singing a tiny bit earlier than people in the front because of the speed of sound in air. And then there is the pipe organist too, often at an ever greater distance.
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/30454/how-does-a-p...
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/30454/how-does-a-p...
You also see this in marching band, where playing in time with the conductor's hands results in messy sound for the audience, because of how far apart different band members might be. The conductor also can't listen to the sound and hear if the band is in time - so you have to watch their feet instead. There's some good videos about these effects on the Drum Major Academy website: https://drummajor.org/marching-band-sound-delay
> I first laughed about calibrating sound systems with microphones to compensate for different cable lengths until a sound engineer let me listen to the differences.
Seriously? Even if electricity has a drift velocity of 50% the speed of light, that's still 150,000 meters in 1 ms - how long is this cable???? There must be something else at play.
Seriously? Even if electricity has a drift velocity of 50% the speed of light, that's still 150,000 meters in 1 ms - how long is this cable???? There must be something else at play.
It's not the transmission through the cable that matters, it's the fact that you're using a long cable to put things far enough apart that the speed of sound matters.
There's something weird here though. I reckon more 4 or 5 ms of latenecy is enough to put me off playing something in time (this is about what you aim for using DAWs to record music) and yet if you just think about playing a piano, the player's ear is about 1m from where the sound is generated. The speed of sound in air is ~300m/s so there's 3 ms of delay right there, even if the hammer mechanism is instantaneous, and I've never heard a pianist complain about delay.
Maybe it's just familiarity but even that feels too simple an explanation
Maybe it's just familiarity but even that feels too simple an explanation
I'm an organist. The organ console is often placed quite some distance from the pipes—especially in the instance of remote divisions such as antiphonal stops (placed at the back of the sanctuary). In addition to distance, the mechanism of the instrument itself introduces a bit of lag. It's something that you just get used to. Choral and orchestral musicians also often deal with these sorts of issues: sometimes they have to play entirely on sight (watching the conductor's baton) rather than listening to the (delayed) sound.
I used to play Dance Dance Revolution quite regularly. One of our controllers had a lag that made it unplayable for most people. But I found my brain adjusting to it extremely quickly, and I think it's because I was accustomed to doing that already during organ playing.
I used to play Dance Dance Revolution quite regularly. One of our controllers had a lag that made it unplayable for most people. But I found my brain adjusting to it extremely quickly, and I think it's because I was accustomed to doing that already during organ playing.
Somehow the audience also manages to adjust too, trained or not. The violins and cellos are several metres apart yet I think the audience would agree whether they come off together or not, regardless of where they're sitting in the auditorium
I wonder if actually it's the delays plus reverb we manage to adjust to. I remember playing church organ too, a while back, and I found the delays much easier to get used to than say a 4 or 5 ms delay in a DAW, even though the delay was probably much bigger. It's like it's training + room acoustics that we use to adjust, rather than the raw numbers of the physical delay
I wonder if actually it's the delays plus reverb we manage to adjust to. I remember playing church organ too, a while back, and I found the delays much easier to get used to than say a 4 or 5 ms delay in a DAW, even though the delay was probably much bigger. It's like it's training + room acoustics that we use to adjust, rather than the raw numbers of the physical delay
My wife is a musician and sang in a highschool/college choir. She hated when they combined with the orchestra and the orchestra conductor conducted a song. Said it felt like the conductor was off a bit because he compensates for different delays.
"Maybe it's just familiarity but even that feels too simple an explanation"
I think it is. Because it has always been like this for anyone since he played the first time. You press the key and (a bit later) music comes. I doubt anyone consciously notice that it is not instant, but your mind notices and adjusts to it.
I think it is. Because it has always been like this for anyone since he played the first time. You press the key and (a bit later) music comes. I doubt anyone consciously notice that it is not instant, but your mind notices and adjusts to it.
But I could play either Jerry Lee Lewis style, arms length from the keyboard with my head back, or Glenn Gould style, hunched over the keyboard and my head moves a metre between the two. So that's around the 3ms threshold where I (and the sound engineer above) claim to be able to detect delays, and yet I don't think I'd notice a delay between those two playing positions
Your brain is very good at compensating for noise and delay in a feedback loop it controls so it's hard to say one way or another. Maybe it feels like a difference in expression instead of a change in delay? A better experiment would be to, like, hm...
let's say you're standing a few meters from a metronome and a musician playing to it. If the musician is close to the metronome, you will hear their playing on beat. The further the musician plays from the metronome, the more delay between you hearing the metronome and their playing, unless the musician stands between you and the metronome. When would you notice the delay?
let's say you're standing a few meters from a metronome and a musician playing to it. If the musician is close to the metronome, you will hear their playing on beat. The further the musician plays from the metronome, the more delay between you hearing the metronome and their playing, unless the musician stands between you and the metronome. When would you notice the delay?
Yes, something like that. As I mentioned elsewhere, I wonder if the result might be affected by the acoustics of the room as well as the physical proximity of the sound sources
It depends on what scenario you're talking about. One scenario where delay is often used is when you have speakers at different locations to provide even coverage for a crowd.
For example, at a really large outdoor concert, you might have speakers near the stage, and another set of speakers further back. If you don't add any delay, then the people sitting far back will hear the signal once from the speakers closest to them, and then they will hear it again from the speakers that are further away (by the stage). The effect will sound like an echo.
So you delay the sound coming out of the further back speakers just enough so that as sound arrives from the stage, the speakers further back produce it at the same time.
And it's not just large venues. in small venues, you sometimes cannot cover the whole area evenly with one set of speakers, so you might have small "fill" speakers to deal with coverage gaps.
For example, at a really large outdoor concert, you might have speakers near the stage, and another set of speakers further back. If you don't add any delay, then the people sitting far back will hear the signal once from the speakers closest to them, and then they will hear it again from the speakers that are further away (by the stage). The effect will sound like an echo.
So you delay the sound coming out of the further back speakers just enough so that as sound arrives from the stage, the speakers further back produce it at the same time.
And it's not just large venues. in small venues, you sometimes cannot cover the whole area evenly with one set of speakers, so you might have small "fill" speakers to deal with coverage gaps.
That’s not as bad as the nerve conduction latency.
Also, on a grand piano, the hammer generally strikes before bottoming out, unless you play sufficiently loud, the timing dependent on how loud you’re playing. You have to begin moving your fingers or hands downward into the keys farther in advance when playing quietly, which is a whole thing when your hands are at different volumes. The mass and mechanical advantage of the finger affect the timing and volume, too.
Also, on a grand piano, the hammer generally strikes before bottoming out, unless you play sufficiently loud, the timing dependent on how loud you’re playing. You have to begin moving your fingers or hands downward into the keys farther in advance when playing quietly, which is a whole thing when your hands are at different volumes. The mass and mechanical advantage of the finger affect the timing and volume, too.
Yeah, that's correct, but saying "cable length" and not "acoustic time distance cause by microphone placement" seems like it would confuse folks who might not have tried to solve phase alignment problems into thinking that the difference is wholly in the "cable length".
But that could just be my reading of the thread.
But that could just be my reading of the thread.
Ah, so it's the soundstage, not the mic that's the problem?
Absolutely minuscule delays due to the distance between your ears are a guide to your stereo perception.
Human hearing is quite extraordinary.
Human hearing is quite extraordinary.
Electricity travels at a big fraction of the speed of light, he couldn't hear a cable length delay. Sound travels about a meter at 3ms in air, that's more likely what microphone calibration was for.
You're right you can't all hear each other. Some choirs use instructions like https://www.makingmusic.org.uk/resource/zoom-online-rehearsa... where everyone is on mute and can just hear themselves and the choirmaster.
I think a technological solution would exist: A and B hears choirmaster, A and B's sound is sent back to server which syncs it with the choirmasters sound before sending to C, D, E and F. C, D, E and F's sound is sent back to the server which syncs it and sends to G, H, I... etc.
So most people can sing along hearing some of the choir and the latency overall shouldn't be too bad. Scales with log(n) * max(latency)
I think a technological solution would exist: A and B hears choirmaster, A and B's sound is sent back to server which syncs it with the choirmasters sound before sending to C, D, E and F. C, D, E and F's sound is sent back to the server which syncs it and sends to G, H, I... etc.
So most people can sing along hearing some of the choir and the latency overall shouldn't be too bad. Scales with log(n) * max(latency)
I've found that the lag impacts even day to day speech. Turn taking cues are all out of whack, and I notice that e.g. my teammates interrupt each other significantly more. It makes conversations in groups larger than 4-5 people very awkward.
https://endlesss.fm/ gives you a shared loop pedal. It's not real time, but just as social and the looping means you don't have to worry about lag.
I saw someone on a facebook group for choral directors who got 10ms latency over 30km. It can be done but requires somewhat specialized hardware (ethernet cable to the router, external audio interface and mic), network setup and software
ninjam should work, although I have not tried it myself, anyone else?
https://www.cockos.com/ninjam/
https://www.cockos.com/ninjam/
I haven't tried it, but maybe singing a round would work? The whole point there is the delay.
In a round, the delay is under your control. If you start singing the first line when you hear me sing the second one, you're actually starting to sing at (second line ts + $latency). And then I hear it another $latency later. A round could work if your call software compensates for this and delays your singing for me until the next round "entry point".
That is, you hear my "Gently" and join in with "Row," but it's not played back for me until I start singing "Merrily." This could work, but as you can see, it would need some clever delay management.
That is, you hear my "Gently" and join in with "Row," but it's not played back for me until I start singing "Merrily." This could work, but as you can see, it would need some clever delay management.
> Singing is the most accessible stress reliever
Not where I live in an apartment in a crowded city where the culture is to not bother others. Neighbors would not be happy to hear me sing no matter how good am, any more then they are happy to hear my stereo.
When I commuted to work in a car I had 30 to 60 minutes of singing time each way. Now I have karaoke box 3 - 4 times a year.
Not where I live in an apartment in a crowded city where the culture is to not bother others. Neighbors would not be happy to hear me sing no matter how good am, any more then they are happy to hear my stereo.
When I commuted to work in a car I had 30 to 60 minutes of singing time each way. Now I have karaoke box 3 - 4 times a year.
yeah, in apt setting it doesn't reduce stress, it just transfers it to your nextdoor neighbor
human voice relatively patterned, esp if the computer knows the song you're singing / you've sang it before. I wonder if there's room for a custom noise cancelation algo that can dampen my neighbor's opera practice?
human voice relatively patterned, esp if the computer knows the song you're singing / you've sang it before. I wonder if there's room for a custom noise cancelation algo that can dampen my neighbor's opera practice?
I don't consider it reasonable to expect such level of silence from neighbors that normal singing volume levels would exceed it.
Sound isolation in older or cheaply designed apartments really sucks.
Plus, therapeutic levels for singing probably require something louder than mezzo piano.
Plus, therapeutic levels for singing probably require something louder than mezzo piano.
Singing is loud - about the same as a trumpet (80 db).
Some singing is loud. Do you consider this too loud for apartment? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKGJyVWRdJM
yes, that is too loud for all but one of the 20 or so apartments I've lived in.
I once lived in an apartment where the manager told me don't worry about sound including running the washing machine late at night because the walls are double concrete with a gap between to be sound dampening. That's the only apartment that's been quiet. All others it was easy to hear conversations from neighboring apartments including the one I'm in now (T_T)
I once lived in an apartment where the manager told me don't worry about sound including running the washing machine late at night because the walls are double concrete with a gap between to be sound dampening. That's the only apartment that's been quiet. All others it was easy to hear conversations from neighboring apartments including the one I'm in now (T_T)
Yes, but having poor sound isolation comes with reduced expectation of quietness (during daytime), not expectation of neighbors being whisper quiet.
It's not for those who have to listen to me.
Then sing alone wearing earplugs.
I don't know the song "alone wearing earplugs". Who's it by?
The In the Showers. Most know them for their hit “Along with the Radio (Alone in a Car)”
Shame poorer inner city dwellers all live in close proximity with thin walls or shared accommodation. Singing is almost impossible in those circumstances without annoying a neighbor.
My last tenancy agreement had specific references to playing any music instruments / singing practice.
My last tenancy agreement had specific references to playing any music instruments / singing practice.
Singing at a normal indoor volume is fine even in apartments. Maybe you can't belt music out at the top of your lungs but despite the lease agreement no city will allow the enforcement of a rule that no singing at all is allowed in apartments.
It probably depends on the city, but in general the legal noise limits allowing for "quiet enjoyment" seem to be pretty high. I lived above loud college students for awhile in SF, and was curious whether they were technically breaking the limits, so I downloaded a decibel meter app to check. Even with the phone sitting on the floor, they would only break the limits when someone yelled at the top of their lungs or they played extremely loud music. That was despite being able to hear pretty much all their (loud but not shouting) conversations, (loud but not usually extreme) music, etc. very clearly in our apartment.
So I think singing should be fine legally speaking unless you live somewhere with a lot stricter limits, especially during the day. It's a good idea to check with neighbors though. Often they won't mind if you do it as long as you avoid certain times or certain rooms. That's how we (sort of) resolved things with our student friends... and thankfully we moved out of there pre-quarantine :)
So I think singing should be fine legally speaking unless you live somewhere with a lot stricter limits, especially during the day. It's a good idea to check with neighbors though. Often they won't mind if you do it as long as you avoid certain times or certain rooms. That's how we (sort of) resolved things with our student friends... and thankfully we moved out of there pre-quarantine :)
> Singing at a normal indoor volume is fine even in apartments
That really depends on what kind of music you like to sing
That really depends on what kind of music you like to sing
It doesn't depend on the type of music. It depends on the volume.
The city might not but my neighbours... they might haha.
Seriously though. How would singing be relaxing if you had to deal with angry neighbours every few times you sung?
Seriously though. How would singing be relaxing if you had to deal with angry neighbours every few times you sung?
Ask HN: any hackerlike ways to train your singing when alone with no feedback?
I will try to search algolia and come back to you with my research
I will try to search algolia and come back to you with my research
Well, after singing for a while with a teacher I kinda understood how to produce a good steady voice. However, it's a bit difficult to explain in text.
But okay, this at least was the revelation for me: try to blow air like blowing out a candle. Meaning a directed, focused blowing that comes with a good strength. This is basically how you want your breathing to be when singing. A steady air flow, without muscular tensions. Then, you just slowly add voice to that air flow. With a humming voice first, trying to utilize as much of your vocal cords as possible. Then you can try singing louder, and seeing if you can keep the same steadiness. What you are trying to get the hang of, is a certain "bite" where your voice resonates with a good clarity and has strength to it, without really trying too hard. (Go watch John Denver singing to know what I mean)
An issue I, and probably many others, face is an inefficient breathing that generates friction in your vocal cords, causing your voice to quickly fall apart becoming weak and crackly.
So avoid "pushing" your voice as much as necessary. It will just cause bad muscle memory, like doing deadlifts with a bad technique. You have to build up the nervous system and the muscle memory slowly, never extending it too far. It might feel annoying singing with "half-volume", when all you want to do is to sing along with your favourite singer with full power. Yet once you build up the technique the whole thing becomes significantly easier. Hard to explain, but you shouldn't be feeling like you have to expend a lot of effort to get a strong voice.
Well, I hope that's something. I would be curious to know if it helped.
But okay, this at least was the revelation for me: try to blow air like blowing out a candle. Meaning a directed, focused blowing that comes with a good strength. This is basically how you want your breathing to be when singing. A steady air flow, without muscular tensions. Then, you just slowly add voice to that air flow. With a humming voice first, trying to utilize as much of your vocal cords as possible. Then you can try singing louder, and seeing if you can keep the same steadiness. What you are trying to get the hang of, is a certain "bite" where your voice resonates with a good clarity and has strength to it, without really trying too hard. (Go watch John Denver singing to know what I mean)
An issue I, and probably many others, face is an inefficient breathing that generates friction in your vocal cords, causing your voice to quickly fall apart becoming weak and crackly.
So avoid "pushing" your voice as much as necessary. It will just cause bad muscle memory, like doing deadlifts with a bad technique. You have to build up the nervous system and the muscle memory slowly, never extending it too far. It might feel annoying singing with "half-volume", when all you want to do is to sing along with your favourite singer with full power. Yet once you build up the technique the whole thing becomes significantly easier. Hard to explain, but you shouldn't be feeling like you have to expend a lot of effort to get a strong voice.
Well, I hope that's something. I would be curious to know if it helped.
Or even not alone - is it possible to get better at singing, or is it mostly just natural? I can kind of "hold a note", but only about 8 of them! Can you meaningfully extend your range, or is your range your range?
You can find videos of people’s improvement with practice on YouTube.
This is one example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eTX9LxZ9YUQ
Definite improvement
This is one example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eTX9LxZ9YUQ
Definite improvement
Rock Band, SingStar etc will tell you when your pitch is off. It won't help you with anything beyond that, but it's a start.
As someone who's been learning to sing mostly on my own (though I've taken a few local workshops that have helped a lot), here are the things I've found most helpful:
* commit to the notes you're singing: singing tentatively makes it harder to evaluate yourself
* sing along with a recording and emulate the singer--every ornament, every nuance in timing--you can find your own voice (so to speak) once you know what you're doing
* repeat a song or even chorus or line over and over, especially singing along with a recording
* record yourself: everyone hates doing this, but again, it's much easier to evaluate what you're doing
* if you're having trouble with a specific line, find the notes on an instrument and sing along (though make sure you're not just locked in to fixed pitches--a lot of the beauty of great singing is exploiting the marvelous glissando capabilities of the human voice)
* drink water and don't hurt yourself
* commit to the notes you're singing: singing tentatively makes it harder to evaluate yourself
* sing along with a recording and emulate the singer--every ornament, every nuance in timing--you can find your own voice (so to speak) once you know what you're doing
* repeat a song or even chorus or line over and over, especially singing along with a recording
* record yourself: everyone hates doing this, but again, it's much easier to evaluate what you're doing
* if you're having trouble with a specific line, find the notes on an instrument and sing along (though make sure you're not just locked in to fixed pitches--a lot of the beauty of great singing is exploiting the marvelous glissando capabilities of the human voice)
* drink water and don't hurt yourself
Here:
Then play back your voice, from the recording, and find out what you'd like to change about your voice, and what you can get better at. It's harder to sing, than what I thought!
And, juts like running or table tennis or whatever, everyone is going to be not-good at it, in the beginning, I think.
sudo apt install audacity
Then play back your voice, from the recording, and find out what you'd like to change about your voice, and what you can get better at. It's harder to sing, than what I thought!
And, juts like running or table tennis or whatever, everyone is going to be not-good at it, in the beginning, I think.
Unfortunately, singing is pretty hard to learn alone. Correct technique is somewhat unintuitive and it's hard to actually see what other singers are doing (internally, with their muscles, throat, larynx) and compare it to what you're doing.
When taking lessons is not an option, I've seen this course get recommended at /r/singing a lot: https://singingsuccess.com/
Don't have first hand experience with it, though.
When taking lessons is not an option, I've seen this course get recommended at /r/singing a lot: https://singingsuccess.com/
Don't have first hand experience with it, though.
You really need a voice coach, because you really can't hear yourself sing. Crazy but little known fact-- even professional soloists hire voice coaches. A former coach of mine works over Skype, though I never tried that.
[deleted]
I used Rock Band for this for a while.
Singing is really good. I learnt guitar and to sing a few years ago now. I taught myself to play guitar using online videos (mainly JustinGuitar). I took singing lessons for about a year which helped me to sing properly. I also sung in a choir (SATB) or a little while but I didn't really get on with that. I prefer singing pop songs. I'm good at singing them but I don't have a good singing voice. I could be a backing vocalist in a band, but not a lead singer. But still, it's fun to sing with friends and family!
There's evidence it may also reduce snoring and sleep apnea by strengthening the pharyngeal muscles[1].
[1] https://file.scirp.org/Html/5-2460085_31850.htm
[1] https://file.scirp.org/Html/5-2460085_31850.htm
There is a VR application called SoundSelf, which makes interesting visualizations derived from your voice and singing to put you into meditative state. It seems like intriguing take on using biofeedback to achieve specific mind states.
Heh, nothing stresses me out more than singing. Mainly because I'm a really bad singer. But, I also have an issue where music does nothing for me - I have no emotional response to songs, music, etc. So I don't really have an incentive to improve my singing. It is sort of a catch-22.
Singing to reduce stress is a great exercise because it feels like your voice comes straight from your heart. Find a song that speaks to you, sing it, and see what emotions come up. It can help to uncover some unconscious emotions you've been holding on to.
Big time.. I started singing 4 years ago after going through some heartbreak. It soon became an obsession to sing everyday and I can always count on it to lift me up if I'm feeling down.
I sing so much randomly around the house my wife has to tell me "GET A NEW SONG". Just about once a day. Songs are usually some weird mix of jams that daddy likes, and the theme songs from my 1.5yr old daughters disney junior cartoons. Fuck those little songs get stuck in your head. Currently on one from 'mira royal detective'.
I have a terrible voice and a very limited range, so I whistle
Camelot did it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiJvAcbxKlU#t=3m10s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiJvAcbxKlU#t=3m10s
I sing best in the morning. After work, stress has usually built up so much that it's difficult to get my voice back into a relaxed state.
Try a different genre, or just something with more presence and power. At a time in my life when I had daily intense emotional stress, I sang stuff by Chris Cornell (Soundgarden, Audioslave) and channeling that raw unbridled energy in his music felt immensely cathartic.
I absolutely hate singing and listening to music that I don't like is like torture.