Ask HN: Founder to Employee
10 comments
I have been a founder, and a employee at a big tech. Although the company did not brought fame / recognition, as a founder, it was really good financial outcome (about 8x of what I would have earned as a employee.)
As an employee at big tech, I think being a founder made me a really good employee. I was able to communicate much better for my level, and had developed pretty good business sense which comes quite handy when prioritizing.
In general though, it's not a easy switch from a long term career prespective. Corporate world is notorious bad at lateral hiring, and much worse at promoting high performing employees. If you really want to scale the corporate ladder then it's best to play the singular game and start as early as possible.
I don't think either of them is better or worse, I find it more like a treasure hunt. When I was a founder, my dating life was near non-existent, my productivity was short lived and heavy on administrative work. As an employee in a big company, you can meet potential mates at work/outside, although you are not doing a lot of work, it's generally quite focussed and productive in your speciality. Both of them are good, what you make out of them is upto you!
As an employee at big tech, I think being a founder made me a really good employee. I was able to communicate much better for my level, and had developed pretty good business sense which comes quite handy when prioritizing.
In general though, it's not a easy switch from a long term career prespective. Corporate world is notorious bad at lateral hiring, and much worse at promoting high performing employees. If you really want to scale the corporate ladder then it's best to play the singular game and start as early as possible.
I don't think either of them is better or worse, I find it more like a treasure hunt. When I was a founder, my dating life was near non-existent, my productivity was short lived and heavy on administrative work. As an employee in a big company, you can meet potential mates at work/outside, although you are not doing a lot of work, it's generally quite focussed and productive in your speciality. Both of them are good, what you make out of them is upto you!
Thanks for the perspective. Given the relative success financially of being a founder, combined with what seems like a period of sacrificing life outside of work, do you regret the being a founder? i.e. looking back would you do the same thing again?
I don't regret, and I did leave the big tech after a few years to build another company with some of my colleagues that I met. Since I started the company quite early in my career (about 12 months out of college), I think building the company gave me focus in my early 20s which would have otherwise spent with video games / internet / counter productive things. The added advantage was that I committed fairly costly mistakes but the cost was discounted since they occurred pretty early on in life. I do have slight regrets around how I treated some of my co-workers, including people who were more powerful than me, and I think being a founder early on without the right level of maturity was rather depressing, so yes, I would start a company after a year of employment and some built up savings but do it with more maturity and self awareness.
I've never actually been in a corporate gig, only worked for small businesses, usually directly for the owner(s). But after running my own web dev company for awhile, I was recruited to work for a small finance company.
I enjoyed being on my own, and the pay was fine, but I really like this job. I have one boss to worry about (and he's awesome) instead of 5-10+ clients at any given time, my coworkers are nice and friendly (but not too much), and I'm getting paid really, really well.
This job is way better, but I think the biggest reason is because of the culture here, plus the pay.
- I don't typically work outside of 9 to 5 - I get paid every week no matter how much work I do (hello paid vacations, it's been awhile) - My boss usually has an idea for a thing to do, and then I do it - If I have an idea, boss will let me run with it unless there's a good reason not to - There's very little back and forth with picky clients who don't know how to tell me what they're looking for - I don't have to worry about finding revenue and keeping expenses in check
While I do sometimes think about work stuff all the time (how many times has the solution to a problem materialized when I'm in the shower after I've been thinking about it for 3 days?!), I don't feel guilty and I'll just send myself an email and tackle it on Monday.
I enjoyed being on my own, and the pay was fine, but I really like this job. I have one boss to worry about (and he's awesome) instead of 5-10+ clients at any given time, my coworkers are nice and friendly (but not too much), and I'm getting paid really, really well.
This job is way better, but I think the biggest reason is because of the culture here, plus the pay.
- I don't typically work outside of 9 to 5 - I get paid every week no matter how much work I do (hello paid vacations, it's been awhile) - My boss usually has an idea for a thing to do, and then I do it - If I have an idea, boss will let me run with it unless there's a good reason not to - There's very little back and forth with picky clients who don't know how to tell me what they're looking for - I don't have to worry about finding revenue and keeping expenses in check
While I do sometimes think about work stuff all the time (how many times has the solution to a problem materialized when I'm in the shower after I've been thinking about it for 3 days?!), I don't feel guilty and I'll just send myself an email and tackle it on Monday.
For my small bootstrapped SAAS company, I would love to have ex-founders as employees. Because I want entrepreneurial people who know how to look at the big picture. I am not in a situation where I have to go back to being an employee myself but if I ever do, I am sure there will be small companies like mine where that experience is respected and is considered a plus.
Really great question about founder vs. being an employee and what it means going back to being an individual contributor.
In Europe, I see that it is hardly possible; if you have been a founder, firms think you aren't loyal.
In Europe, I see that it is hardly possible; if you have been a founder, firms think you aren't loyal.
Interesting. So once you're a founder you're pretty much stuck with entrepreneurship? Do companies just filter out resumes for entrepreneurs?
As a founder, I got to do everything -- sales, design, development. This cultivated a very wide interest and general proficiency in a lot of things. My startups failed though, and I felt I needed to learn from others before trying again. Also, my savings were running dry, but that was a secondary motivator.
Over the past few years I've been an employee, either at startups or mid-sized stable organizations. When negotiating the job description, I've always requested from the founders/managers to chip in in various ways -- PM, design, engineering, etc. They always were enthusiastic to have employees with diverse interests, but reality sometimes proved otherwise:
- Some startups gave the flexibility, but it just felt worse than working on my own. I had the same long hours and work pressure, but a fraction of the ownership and was working on someone else's vision - Other startups really just needed engineering muscle. I was evaluated on pure engineering output, and any other mechanisms I had of contributing were viewed as distractions from my core responsibilities and were actively shut down. Doing one thing with my life wasn't very pleasurable after wearing all the hats, and I wasn't rewarded for being a generalist - The one mid-sized org I work for tends to value me more; they needed engineering work, but also had growing pains and needed existing employees to step up and fill in the gaps. Having a willingness to do that was eagerly accepted
Some general impressions that I currently hold loosely: - having a stable income is nice and I can afford most everything I want, but it's not enough. I miss having the startup belief that my reward is proportional to my output - company perks (food, learning reimbursement, commuter benefits, etc) are usually deterrents for me now. Colleagues feel more sedated than energized when life is too good. I miss working with hungry (figuratively) people. - I care a lot about the mission. I have the good fortune of working at an org that actively seeks empathetic, passionate people out. I don't think I can go back to normal jobs where I just need to do a thing. This includes even my own startups (which had, in hindsight, little value-add to society) - the slower pacing actually feels more conducive to personal growth, but to a point. It helps now to be on a team where we constantly try to improve and iterate, as opposed to just being a resource-strapped feature shop. I'd avoid teams that move too slowly though, or don't have the pressure to introduce something new. - both startups and large companies can have diverse employees, or can have monocultures. Turns out I like the former infinitely more; didn't get that at most startups I've worked at - leaving silicon valley for a job actually gave me a lot more perspective on the world than struggling as a founder in SF. Turns out there are a lot of big problems people are trying to solve that don't get talked about in silicon valley, and the diversity of people trying to solve it seems a lot larger.
All these impressions, however, are loosely held because I've come to think of my career as consisting of phases in no particular order: take chances, invest in personal growth, make money, hustle, have predictability and work-life balance, give back, etc.
Over the past few years I've been an employee, either at startups or mid-sized stable organizations. When negotiating the job description, I've always requested from the founders/managers to chip in in various ways -- PM, design, engineering, etc. They always were enthusiastic to have employees with diverse interests, but reality sometimes proved otherwise:
- Some startups gave the flexibility, but it just felt worse than working on my own. I had the same long hours and work pressure, but a fraction of the ownership and was working on someone else's vision - Other startups really just needed engineering muscle. I was evaluated on pure engineering output, and any other mechanisms I had of contributing were viewed as distractions from my core responsibilities and were actively shut down. Doing one thing with my life wasn't very pleasurable after wearing all the hats, and I wasn't rewarded for being a generalist - The one mid-sized org I work for tends to value me more; they needed engineering work, but also had growing pains and needed existing employees to step up and fill in the gaps. Having a willingness to do that was eagerly accepted
Some general impressions that I currently hold loosely: - having a stable income is nice and I can afford most everything I want, but it's not enough. I miss having the startup belief that my reward is proportional to my output - company perks (food, learning reimbursement, commuter benefits, etc) are usually deterrents for me now. Colleagues feel more sedated than energized when life is too good. I miss working with hungry (figuratively) people. - I care a lot about the mission. I have the good fortune of working at an org that actively seeks empathetic, passionate people out. I don't think I can go back to normal jobs where I just need to do a thing. This includes even my own startups (which had, in hindsight, little value-add to society) - the slower pacing actually feels more conducive to personal growth, but to a point. It helps now to be on a team where we constantly try to improve and iterate, as opposed to just being a resource-strapped feature shop. I'd avoid teams that move too slowly though, or don't have the pressure to introduce something new. - both startups and large companies can have diverse employees, or can have monocultures. Turns out I like the former infinitely more; didn't get that at most startups I've worked at - leaving silicon valley for a job actually gave me a lot more perspective on the world than struggling as a founder in SF. Turns out there are a lot of big problems people are trying to solve that don't get talked about in silicon valley, and the diversity of people trying to solve it seems a lot larger.
All these impressions, however, are loosely held because I've come to think of my career as consisting of phases in no particular order: take chances, invest in personal growth, make money, hustle, have predictability and work-life balance, give back, etc.
The pace. It's like going from Formula 1 engineering team to classic Sunday rides in some backwater suburb. Started a web design business first few weeks out of uni and spent a good few years struggling, worked ourselves to the teeth, finally got a product out and bootstrapped until we got acquired. Don't get me wrong, not everyone wants to go that route but after a year of not doing anything particularly useful I opted to go work instead of start something new. The pay was nice, but everything else was just painful.
After being a founder you learn to communicate, adjust to situation and more importantly, always keep an eye on the big picture. My job only evaluated the particular development skill and were thoroughly uninterested in anything else I had to offer. This wasn't helped by my fellow employees lack of urgency and as you so well put it "sedated" feeling and sort of going with the flow in easy fashion. So off the cliff manifested itself into a minor depression/anxiety. I remember reading a book years ago where the author said "nothing feels right". My family and friends said I looked healthier ,with the irony of-course, I was dying inside.
After being a founder you learn to communicate, adjust to situation and more importantly, always keep an eye on the big picture. My job only evaluated the particular development skill and were thoroughly uninterested in anything else I had to offer. This wasn't helped by my fellow employees lack of urgency and as you so well put it "sedated" feeling and sort of going with the flow in easy fashion. So off the cliff manifested itself into a minor depression/anxiety. I remember reading a book years ago where the author said "nothing feels right". My family and friends said I looked healthier ,with the irony of-course, I was dying inside.
Do you think it's a matter of personality or just habit? Founders I would assume have the sense of urgency because it's their baby and there is much more skin in the game. As an employee you're paid to do a job, but a former founder carries that sense of ownership over. What if you just treated the job as a job, would that give a healthier balance?
The perspective I don't hear often are founders (successful or not) that decide to go back to corporate life. What made you go back to being an employee and which "life" has been better?