Ask HN: Is This Normal?
I find myself truly interested in a lot of programming concepts, but invariably when I start investing serious effort into them (whether at work or in side projects), I'm quickly (over a couple of weeks max) becoming less energetic and can barely keep up with the effort, while vegging out in misery for the remainder of the day. In other words, the 4-5 hours of logical thinking per day is enough to completely drain me. I'm 39, in ok-ish shape, been in tech since college (took a lot of breaks between jobs because of exhaustion), don't have kids. I wonder if this is how grownup life feels to a lot of people or I am just unlucky to have a low energy constitution?
7 comments
> In other words, the 4-5 hours of logical thinking per day is enough to completely drain me.
Sounds normal to me! I spent years composing classical music hours every day, which was great fun, but after about 3 hours writing in the morning I'd be utterly, totally exhausted. Sometimes much later in the day I'd do more, but not usually. I've heard from various places that that's not uncommon, being worn out after a few hours of totally focused work.
I read somewhere recently that Michael Phelps (I think it was) swam for a few hours each morning then had a sleep, doing more later in the day. I never thought of doing that, not being a napper, although I like the idea of napping, but maybe I should've. I imagine relaxing by reading online or chatting or something doesn't have the same restorative effect napping does.
I get a lot of ideas when I go out the back and stare at the trees while having a smoke. Most of my good ideas. I think it's the sitting there, letting your mind do what it wants, absorbing whatever you were just working on. If that was a problem, often the solution just comes to mind. But that doesn't happen unless you have breaks like that.
Sounds normal to me! I spent years composing classical music hours every day, which was great fun, but after about 3 hours writing in the morning I'd be utterly, totally exhausted. Sometimes much later in the day I'd do more, but not usually. I've heard from various places that that's not uncommon, being worn out after a few hours of totally focused work.
I read somewhere recently that Michael Phelps (I think it was) swam for a few hours each morning then had a sleep, doing more later in the day. I never thought of doing that, not being a napper, although I like the idea of napping, but maybe I should've. I imagine relaxing by reading online or chatting or something doesn't have the same restorative effect napping does.
I get a lot of ideas when I go out the back and stare at the trees while having a smoke. Most of my good ideas. I think it's the sitting there, letting your mind do what it wants, absorbing whatever you were just working on. If that was a problem, often the solution just comes to mind. But that doesn't happen unless you have breaks like that.
This sounds like a great idea. Effectively fitting in two "days" in each 24 hours. Then you're swimming every other "day" and the days in between you can do your other activities.
The question that first springs to mind is, do you have a goal to learning new programming stuff (either a real intellectual goal, or something professional)? Is it helping you?
Maybe you really like learning but need to pick up something else, to give your brain a break. Maybe you need to do something with your body instead of your mind. Burnout is real, and people need to change in order to grow. (We're close in age.)
Maybe you really like learning but need to pick up something else, to give your brain a break. Maybe you need to do something with your body instead of your mind. Burnout is real, and people need to change in order to grow. (We're close in age.)
> The question that first springs to mind is, do you have a goal to learning new programming stuff (either a real intellectual goal, or something professional)? Is it helping you?
Yes, definitely. In job, I was just thrown in a project that uses a lot of hot new tech that I do not know - learning it allows me to not be fired (job pays way above market, so it makes sense) and is also keeping me in the loop tech-wise. Between jobs, I studied more math-based, quite intense areas of programming with an intention of switching from what i'm doing right now to that field (hasn't happened yet).
> Maybe you really like learning but need to pick up something else, to give your brain a break. Maybe you need to do something with your body instead of your mind. Burnout is real, and people need to change in order to grow
I'm close to FIRE in terms of money, so I'll be able to take as many breaks as I want soon. I'm just trying to find a way to both enjoy tech work (something that happens naturally for me) without exhausting myself and feeling miserable, so that I can stay in tech even after FI. Right now, I feel like I some kind of mental invalid, where the work leaves me too tired mentally to even go outside for a walk... That is no way to live long-term.
Also, people who know me tell me I need to learn to relax. Maybe if I could learn to turn off my brain for a couple hours a day, I wouldn't burn myself out. Right now I'm trying to do that with moderate alcohol usage lol, but obviously it's not a solution. The problem is, my brain always wants more stimulation. Perhaps I need to do some meditation or dopamine detox (I'm on a screen for 80-90% of my waking hours). The problem with that is that sounds like misery as well... I guess the eastern wisdom that life is unavoidable suffering no matter what you do is right on the money.
Yes, definitely. In job, I was just thrown in a project that uses a lot of hot new tech that I do not know - learning it allows me to not be fired (job pays way above market, so it makes sense) and is also keeping me in the loop tech-wise. Between jobs, I studied more math-based, quite intense areas of programming with an intention of switching from what i'm doing right now to that field (hasn't happened yet).
> Maybe you really like learning but need to pick up something else, to give your brain a break. Maybe you need to do something with your body instead of your mind. Burnout is real, and people need to change in order to grow
I'm close to FIRE in terms of money, so I'll be able to take as many breaks as I want soon. I'm just trying to find a way to both enjoy tech work (something that happens naturally for me) without exhausting myself and feeling miserable, so that I can stay in tech even after FI. Right now, I feel like I some kind of mental invalid, where the work leaves me too tired mentally to even go outside for a walk... That is no way to live long-term.
Also, people who know me tell me I need to learn to relax. Maybe if I could learn to turn off my brain for a couple hours a day, I wouldn't burn myself out. Right now I'm trying to do that with moderate alcohol usage lol, but obviously it's not a solution. The problem is, my brain always wants more stimulation. Perhaps I need to do some meditation or dopamine detox (I'm on a screen for 80-90% of my waking hours). The problem with that is that sounds like misery as well... I guess the eastern wisdom that life is unavoidable suffering no matter what you do is right on the money.
"I'm on a screen for 80-90% of my waking hours" — I've been there and it can be really destructive to mental health and also basic thinking.
That's a good place to be in your career. Learning complex subjects is much more about quality than quantity (there was a recent HN article about effortful repetition, rather than mere repeated exposure, being the trick). So even if you want to really learn this stuff, learning to give your brain a break might be just what you need to both process the information and find pleasure in it.
Meditation is for real. But you might also be in danger of approaching it as "a task"—I did. What I do when I sense that my body just needs to relax, now, is I lay on a yoga mat on the floor and sort of stretch without trying and gradually feel my breath and slow down. Sometimes it becomes a real work out, but I never do it with that intention. Just a suggestion.
That's a good place to be in your career. Learning complex subjects is much more about quality than quantity (there was a recent HN article about effortful repetition, rather than mere repeated exposure, being the trick). So even if you want to really learn this stuff, learning to give your brain a break might be just what you need to both process the information and find pleasure in it.
Meditation is for real. But you might also be in danger of approaching it as "a task"—I did. What I do when I sense that my body just needs to relax, now, is I lay on a yoga mat on the floor and sort of stretch without trying and gradually feel my breath and slow down. Sometimes it becomes a real work out, but I never do it with that intention. Just a suggestion.
I don't have too much advice to offer unfortunately, but concentrating for 4-5 hours should be enough to wear many if not most people out. If that doesn't include breaks and maybe some less intense tasks, I wouldn't be too concerned about being tired after that. If it does, I guess it depends a bit on how much of those 4-5h are in concentration, but it sounds like you can still get serious work done.
4-5 hours of quality thinking time sounds about the right limit to me. if anything, it's impressive. I can churn out 10 hour days but about 7 hours will be mostly "operational" stuff i don't need to think deeply about.