Europeans' trust in US as world leader collapses during pandemic(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
Europeans' trust in US as world leader collapses during pandemic
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/29/europeans-trust-in-us-as-world-leader-collapses-during-pandemic
26 comments
How did it take that long after everything the US has done in the last 20 years. In what exactly is/was the US a world leader? Making money? It sure wasn't justice, Healthcare, infrastructure, human rights, poverty, homelessness etc. List goes on and on.
Hollywood is an extremely powerful marketing tool, exporting the American patriotism around the world. Movies that involve the military also tend to paint a very positive picture of the US military. And those movies and series is what kids and teenagers around the world grow up with.
Whereas to see poverty, homelessness or infrastructure problems you actually have to travel to the US.
Whereas to see poverty, homelessness or infrastructure problems you actually have to travel to the US.
Obama gave us some hope.
Also, most of the issues you mention are domestic issues, so many Europeans don't really see how badly the US handles them. But internationally, the US has strongly supported Europe over the past 75 years, and also acted as a kind of world police in a way that rarely hurt European countries, and when it did, it was on an issue where the US was correct.
Until the Iraq war. That was the big betrayal. But then Obama was elected, and Europeans felt like Bush was just a fluke, and things would be normal again from then on.
And then Trump was elected.
Maybe Europeans are a bit slow in accepting inconvenient reality, but it's finally hit home.
Also, most of the issues you mention are domestic issues, so many Europeans don't really see how badly the US handles them. But internationally, the US has strongly supported Europe over the past 75 years, and also acted as a kind of world police in a way that rarely hurt European countries, and when it did, it was on an issue where the US was correct.
Until the Iraq war. That was the big betrayal. But then Obama was elected, and Europeans felt like Bush was just a fluke, and things would be normal again from then on.
And then Trump was elected.
Maybe Europeans are a bit slow in accepting inconvenient reality, but it's finally hit home.
You’re clearly not following USA network news. I cringe every time I hear (on center left leaning MSNBC) “American exceptionalism”, “leader of the free world”, “the most powerful man/country in the world”, or “the greatest nation in the world”. They clearly don’t get how far their idea of the USA is from that of the rest of the world of them. If it wasn’t for Hollywood propaganda, it’d be even worse.
I’ll bet that the news in the USSR was uniformly optimistic right up to the end. When it all falls apart, it will happen quickly. I don’t watch network tv but it sounds like there are going to be a lot of very surprised boomers out there.
I think it’s the clash with reality that might be transformative. For good or bad.
Reminds me of a cult classic Polish dark comedy filmed under the iron curtain, 1981 Mis. It had a scene involving a sport team visiting west for the first time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk2SqlL3Vt0&feature=youtu.be... Sports club President monologue goes like this:
"You are going to the capital of a capitalist country. This country may have its plusses. The point is, however, that the plusses shouldn't blind you to the minusses!"
(„Jedziecie do stolicy kraju kapitalistycznego, który to kraj ma być może nawet tam i swoje plusy. Rozchodzi się jednak o to, żeby te plusy nie przesłoniły wam minusów!”)
Iron curtain fell 8 years after making this movie.
"You are going to the capital of a capitalist country. This country may have its plusses. The point is, however, that the plusses shouldn't blind you to the minusses!"
(„Jedziecie do stolicy kraju kapitalistycznego, który to kraj ma być może nawet tam i swoje plusy. Rozchodzi się jednak o to, żeby te plusy nie przesłoniły wam minusów!”)
Iron curtain fell 8 years after making this movie.
Being able to observe my own boomer parents firsthand, they really want to buy whatever story makes the country look good. They look online but only within
a certain set of conservative commentators and more recently a bit of foreign news(Sky Australia). But they have a definite kind of answer they're seeking.
They regularly spend over an hour discussing news with the goal of, in essence, being upset about whatever story is making the US look bad today. They normally split Democrat and Republican, but as of now they want to rally behind Trump, because they really want to believe he did the right thing in the pandemic - despite also being worried to death over the virus, keeping up with the science, and avoiding as much contact as they can. They blame the news for trying far too hard to make Trump look bad. The BLM protesters are likewise characterized as "violent looters" with whatever the newspaper reports being swallowed up(despite also not trusting the paper with respect to discussing Trump). The comparisons to "Russia and China"(essentially one word) are immediate when it comes to toppling monuments - "next antifa will start saying they are in power" etc. In essence, they started working overtime to excuse the system rather than try to move with the times. They're feeling marginalized and foreign with many of these topics and that scares them even more.
I mostly stay quiet because otherwise it would be a 2v1 discussion and the time and energy they spend on this stuff vastly exceeds what I'm going to bother with. I don't think they are healthy with it, but I can't drag them away from it either. Hopefully things go well and they simply have to change their outlook to a puzzled "who ever would have known that it might get better after this?"
They regularly spend over an hour discussing news with the goal of, in essence, being upset about whatever story is making the US look bad today. They normally split Democrat and Republican, but as of now they want to rally behind Trump, because they really want to believe he did the right thing in the pandemic - despite also being worried to death over the virus, keeping up with the science, and avoiding as much contact as they can. They blame the news for trying far too hard to make Trump look bad. The BLM protesters are likewise characterized as "violent looters" with whatever the newspaper reports being swallowed up(despite also not trusting the paper with respect to discussing Trump). The comparisons to "Russia and China"(essentially one word) are immediate when it comes to toppling monuments - "next antifa will start saying they are in power" etc. In essence, they started working overtime to excuse the system rather than try to move with the times. They're feeling marginalized and foreign with many of these topics and that scares them even more.
I mostly stay quiet because otherwise it would be a 2v1 discussion and the time and energy they spend on this stuff vastly exceeds what I'm going to bother with. I don't think they are healthy with it, but I can't drag them away from it either. Hopefully things go well and they simply have to change their outlook to a puzzled "who ever would have known that it might get better after this?"
Thanks for writing this. Really helps understanding, but also very familiar. Also shows what social justice reform would never happen unless these people go out to the streets.
This is like an entry in a journal found many years after some catastrophe...
I'm not an American. Many of us foreigners watching the US think that what's killing you people isn't Trump himself, but the obsession that "progressives" have with that man.
Democrats have spent years hating on Trump instead of building a good case for the 2020 election.
Why have a solid candidate and a solid policy package when instead you can have a senile corpse that can't put a sentence together, partnering with quasi-marxists that want to dismantle the rule of law.
The democrats achieved what nobody thought possible. They made Trump look sane.
Democrats have spent years hating on Trump instead of building a good case for the 2020 election.
Why have a solid candidate and a solid policy package when instead you can have a senile corpse that can't put a sentence together, partnering with quasi-marxists that want to dismantle the rule of law.
The democrats achieved what nobody thought possible. They made Trump look sane.
I guess you haven’t been watching much TV during Obama’s time in the White House. The GOP post-policy strategy is just about opposing and nothing else. This was the case since the democrats made it clear with Obama that Republicans got nothing to offer to the American people other than destroying the economy Democrats built.
Also, you might be European but trump is loathed here (Western Europe) probably more than he is in the USA.
Also, you might be European but trump is loathed here (Western Europe) probably more than he is in the USA.
Disclaimer: I'm not a big fan of Trump
The job of the political opposition is to oppose. What the democrats have done in the last 3 years is a whole new level of bitching. And they haven't learned anything, they seem to be following the same strategy as in 2016. Believe me that insulting the electorate to their face isn't a very good tactic. The polling situation isn't very different from 2016, but the arrogance blinds them.
I'm from an Italian-Spanish family that emigrated to South America during World War II. I lived in Europe for 5 years, in Sweden (study abroad), and I'm a European citizen.
I'm very aware of how much Europeans despise Trump. I'm also aware of how much time and energy Europeans dedicate to American politics that should be dedicated to European politics.
In a way, the Trump obsession is also destroying Europe.
Here's a list of things that Europe needs to address urgently and that the European press doesn't discuss because it's either too ignorant or too "politically correct".
- Intra-eurozone balance of payments
- Bank leverage and household debt in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Netherlands
- Debt mutualization, also known as "Eurobond"
- Uncoordinated fiscal policy that makes Luxembourg and Ireland suck up all the capital
- Runaway government deficits in the south
- Dollar-denominated debt and shortage of dollar liquidity
- Border security of the outer borders of Schengen (Frontex)
- Energy dependency, especially from Russia
- Chinese corporate takeovers
- Need to get real about defense spending, NATO won't babysit Europe forever (unless you PAY)
- Corruption in Eastern Europe, especially Ukraine
The job of the political opposition is to oppose. What the democrats have done in the last 3 years is a whole new level of bitching. And they haven't learned anything, they seem to be following the same strategy as in 2016. Believe me that insulting the electorate to their face isn't a very good tactic. The polling situation isn't very different from 2016, but the arrogance blinds them.
I'm from an Italian-Spanish family that emigrated to South America during World War II. I lived in Europe for 5 years, in Sweden (study abroad), and I'm a European citizen.
I'm very aware of how much Europeans despise Trump. I'm also aware of how much time and energy Europeans dedicate to American politics that should be dedicated to European politics.
In a way, the Trump obsession is also destroying Europe.
Here's a list of things that Europe needs to address urgently and that the European press doesn't discuss because it's either too ignorant or too "politically correct".
- Intra-eurozone balance of payments
- Bank leverage and household debt in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Netherlands
- Debt mutualization, also known as "Eurobond"
- Uncoordinated fiscal policy that makes Luxembourg and Ireland suck up all the capital
- Runaway government deficits in the south
- Dollar-denominated debt and shortage of dollar liquidity
- Border security of the outer borders of Schengen (Frontex)
- Energy dependency, especially from Russia
- Chinese corporate takeovers
- Need to get real about defense spending, NATO won't babysit Europe forever (unless you PAY)
- Corruption in Eastern Europe, especially Ukraine
>> The job of the political opposition is to oppose.
If that were the case than there’s no point in having a political system, is there?
Regardless, we’re back in the false equivalences territory. The GOP doesn’t have any policies. It’s a block of resentment that’s not even trying anymore to pretend.
The democrats have policies and as you say, they do their job and oppose (based on their policies). They don’t oppose for the sake of opposition like you’re suggesting. They have policies they seem to be able to articulate and stand behind.
Republicans don’t. Not any more at least not since they’ve lost two election cycles to Obama.
Your problems and complaints about the EU are not relevant to the discussion. Opposition to trump is based on his action, or inaction mostly and deliberate policies written by lobbyists and white supremacists. I’d say that’s a reason to be busy opposing him.
Ps you’re. Unless your talking genetics, how does this qualify you as a “European”?
If that were the case than there’s no point in having a political system, is there?
Regardless, we’re back in the false equivalences territory. The GOP doesn’t have any policies. It’s a block of resentment that’s not even trying anymore to pretend.
The democrats have policies and as you say, they do their job and oppose (based on their policies). They don’t oppose for the sake of opposition like you’re suggesting. They have policies they seem to be able to articulate and stand behind.
Republicans don’t. Not any more at least not since they’ve lost two election cycles to Obama.
Your problems and complaints about the EU are not relevant to the discussion. Opposition to trump is based on his action, or inaction mostly and deliberate policies written by lobbyists and white supremacists. I’d say that’s a reason to be busy opposing him.
Ps you’re. Unless your talking genetics, how does this qualify you as a “European”?
>> If that were the case than there’s no point in having a political system, is there?
Yes there is. It’s like court, you have prosecution and defense.
>> They don’t oppose for the sake of opposition like you’re suggesting.
I didn’t suggest that they “oppose for the sake of opposition”. I said they oppose because that’s their job, to keep the current government “in check”.
>> Your problems and complaints about the EU are not relevant to the discussion.
They’re not complaints, they’re observations. Some of the items, not all, like defense and dollar liquidity are very relevant because of the geopolitical interplay.
>> Unless your talking genetics, how does this qualify you as a “European”?
I didn’t say I was European. I said I was a European citizen. You see, holding a European citizenship makes you a European citizen. I even voted in the last EU parliament elections.
Yes there is. It’s like court, you have prosecution and defense.
>> They don’t oppose for the sake of opposition like you’re suggesting.
I didn’t suggest that they “oppose for the sake of opposition”. I said they oppose because that’s their job, to keep the current government “in check”.
>> Your problems and complaints about the EU are not relevant to the discussion.
They’re not complaints, they’re observations. Some of the items, not all, like defense and dollar liquidity are very relevant because of the geopolitical interplay.
>> Unless your talking genetics, how does this qualify you as a “European”?
I didn’t say I was European. I said I was a European citizen. You see, holding a European citizenship makes you a European citizen. I even voted in the last EU parliament elections.
The EU should put on their big boy pants and forge their own path independent of the US .. WW2 and the cold war are relics of the past.
The EU can't even keep itself together. Think about that for a second.
I think it would be better to compare opinions now to already-surveyed opinions before the pandemic; it's easy to say that you lost trust during the pandemic even if you had low trust before it started.
Before coronavirus I thought that the dominance of the United States internationally would last another 20 or 30 years, but now it seems that it might all fall apart much sooner. It wouldn’t surprise me if the US dollar lost its position as the world reserve currency as the result of all this, especially given that the fed is directly propping up the whole financial system with trillions of dollars out of thin air. That can’t continue forever. Plus, the whole world has gotten a look behind the curtain, and they can now see how corrupt and useless our political system has become, how desperate and angry the populace is. Our failure to deal with coronavirus wasn’t because the government didn’t want to deal with the issue. The failure happened because it is unable to. Most declining empires follow the same path.
I'm from an Italian-Spanish family from South America (grandparents emigrated to the New World during World War II), and I lived in Europe for 5 years (studying abroad).
When people think of currency, they tend to focus on the supply side (monetary policy) and forget to look at the demand side (necessary liquidity).
There is as much dollar-denominated debt outside the US as there is within. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, the crisis is creating more demand for US dollars, not less. This is why the Fed expanded the "dollar swap line" program. The "eurodollar" system is often overlooked, yet one of the most important drivers of the global economy.
Compare the policy of the Federal Reserve with the ECB (Eurozone) and the PBOC (China). And you will see why not only will the US dollar not collapse, in the coming years it may get so strong it could lead to a new Plaza Accord.
The Central Bank of Norway had to restart intervention in foreign exchange markets for the first time in decades. Norway, the #1 most developed nation in the world, experienced a dose of monetary reality on the 22nd of March (look up NOKUSD).
The so-called "rising power" of China is as marketable as it is absurd. Every other quarter there is a story of the PBOC injecting liquidity and lowering the capitalization requirement for banks. Needless to say, the Yuan still pegs to the US dollar for a reason.
Public opinion and mainstream media are divorced from financial reality, and we don't know if this is due to hysteria or sheer incompetence.
The surprise comes with the realization that the noisy political infighting of the American political class is orthogonal to almost everything.
The US may be a disaster, and simultaneously be the best in the world. Trump may be an idiot, and simultaneously be the smartest in DC.
Moral posturing isn't a substitute for good banking.
When people think of currency, they tend to focus on the supply side (monetary policy) and forget to look at the demand side (necessary liquidity).
There is as much dollar-denominated debt outside the US as there is within. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, the crisis is creating more demand for US dollars, not less. This is why the Fed expanded the "dollar swap line" program. The "eurodollar" system is often overlooked, yet one of the most important drivers of the global economy.
Compare the policy of the Federal Reserve with the ECB (Eurozone) and the PBOC (China). And you will see why not only will the US dollar not collapse, in the coming years it may get so strong it could lead to a new Plaza Accord.
The Central Bank of Norway had to restart intervention in foreign exchange markets for the first time in decades. Norway, the #1 most developed nation in the world, experienced a dose of monetary reality on the 22nd of March (look up NOKUSD).
The so-called "rising power" of China is as marketable as it is absurd. Every other quarter there is a story of the PBOC injecting liquidity and lowering the capitalization requirement for banks. Needless to say, the Yuan still pegs to the US dollar for a reason.
Public opinion and mainstream media are divorced from financial reality, and we don't know if this is due to hysteria or sheer incompetence.
The surprise comes with the realization that the noisy political infighting of the American political class is orthogonal to almost everything.
The US may be a disaster, and simultaneously be the best in the world. Trump may be an idiot, and simultaneously be the smartest in DC.
Moral posturing isn't a substitute for good banking.
> Our failure to deal with coronavirus wasn’t because the government didn’t want to deal with the issue.
Technically it was directly the result of our government not wanting to deal with the issue and making it political rather than scientific. Trump could have easily said wear a mask, follow the guidelines, let's take our time to reopen, let's make sure that we pump additional money into the system sooner rather than later, because if we will end up pumping it anyway, but this way we avoid foreclosures, rent evictions, homelessness, and all of that will lead to poverty and increased lawlessness.
There's plenty that could have been done to contain the virus. Yes America is much larger in geography and population than Europe, but Italy, Spain, Germany, all have shown that you can contain the virus.
If our leadership actually united around what was best for America rather than fighting each other, we could have certainly improved where we are today. By the end of this week we will be hitting 75k new cases and we are full bore into the second wave.
Yet, the President still won't put on a mask in public, won't call people out on it, it's gotten so bad that even his lackey VP Pence has finally said it's a good idea to put the mask on.
America has become extremely divided and it is because of the media. On both sides. You have FoxNews that paints a narrative that ignores all science, and you have the left media that is all too happy to jump on any little issue that makes Trump look bad and heighten it out of proportion and then as a result the right fights back even harder.
Technically it was directly the result of our government not wanting to deal with the issue and making it political rather than scientific. Trump could have easily said wear a mask, follow the guidelines, let's take our time to reopen, let's make sure that we pump additional money into the system sooner rather than later, because if we will end up pumping it anyway, but this way we avoid foreclosures, rent evictions, homelessness, and all of that will lead to poverty and increased lawlessness.
There's plenty that could have been done to contain the virus. Yes America is much larger in geography and population than Europe, but Italy, Spain, Germany, all have shown that you can contain the virus.
If our leadership actually united around what was best for America rather than fighting each other, we could have certainly improved where we are today. By the end of this week we will be hitting 75k new cases and we are full bore into the second wave.
Yet, the President still won't put on a mask in public, won't call people out on it, it's gotten so bad that even his lackey VP Pence has finally said it's a good idea to put the mask on.
America has become extremely divided and it is because of the media. On both sides. You have FoxNews that paints a narrative that ignores all science, and you have the left media that is all too happy to jump on any little issue that makes Trump look bad and heighten it out of proportion and then as a result the right fights back even harder.
Europe has 400 camps and 47 000 refugees (pg 106 Necropolitics A. Mbembe) so they need to activate the imaginary split between themselves and the failing Empire in hopes they can recuperate enough power to step into it and take charge.