Chipmaker Analog Devices to acquire Maxim Integrated for $21B(reuters.com)
reuters.com
Chipmaker Analog Devices to acquire Maxim Integrated for $21B
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-maxim-intg-m-a-analog-devices/chipmaker-analog-devices-to-buy-rival-maxim-for-about-21-billion-idUSKCN24E14B
135 comments
How did you come to the conclusion AD is hugely profitable ?
Thier ROIC is 6.7% https://www.gurufocus.com/term/ROIC/NAS:ADI/Return%2Bon%2BIn...
This is below the SP500 ROIC.
Visa / Mastercard ROIC is >20%
Thier ROIC is 6.7% https://www.gurufocus.com/term/ROIC/NAS:ADI/Return%2Bon%2BIn...
This is below the SP500 ROIC.
Visa / Mastercard ROIC is >20%
Even with Lime Microsystems, their chip barely functions compared to the equivalent ADI part. Sure, it's nameplate specs are nice but it the dynamic range is crap and the EVM barely passes the LTE spec.
Even worse is that basically the only product using the chip is Lime themselves so trying to spin your own product would be a nightmare. ADI has a nice eval board and reference design for their chips and you can control it using the lib-iio framework which is built into mainline linux.
Even worse is that basically the only product using the chip is Lime themselves so trying to spin your own product would be a nightmare. ADI has a nice eval board and reference design for their chips and you can control it using the lib-iio framework which is built into mainline linux.
I really wanted Lime to succeed here, because we could all use the competition, but man, that Lime chip really is absolute crap. It has dead zones all over the spectrum where the LO PLL won't lock, even within the temperature spec. [1]
I returned my LimeSDR Mini after a frustrating weekend and bought a USRP instead, which uses the AD chip, and there's really no comparison.
This is one reason why I said in another comment that I thought it'd be difficult for a fabless upstart to complete on a complex / high-performance design like an ADC. The chip Lime designed is an absolute monster -- it has multiple ADCs, DACs, filter banks, switches, oscillators, PLLs. If any one of them isn't perfect, the whole design is shot. I'd still like for them to succeed, but when you're selling a hundred dollar IC, it really does need to be flawless.
[1] https://discourse.myriadrf.org/t/new-limesdr-mini-loopback-t...
I returned my LimeSDR Mini after a frustrating weekend and bought a USRP instead, which uses the AD chip, and there's really no comparison.
This is one reason why I said in another comment that I thought it'd be difficult for a fabless upstart to complete on a complex / high-performance design like an ADC. The chip Lime designed is an absolute monster -- it has multiple ADCs, DACs, filter banks, switches, oscillators, PLLs. If any one of them isn't perfect, the whole design is shot. I'd still like for them to succeed, but when you're selling a hundred dollar IC, it really does need to be flawless.
[1] https://discourse.myriadrf.org/t/new-limesdr-mini-loopback-t...
Those deadzones are horrible. Also, the calibration routine is absolutely broken.
For example, when userspace requests a certain TX gain, the chip does some calibration black box magic to determine the best way to distribute that gain across the internal amplifies. Nothing special here, the AD9361 does the same thing. The Lime chip will inexplicably fail the calibration but __will continue to operate__. If the PLL didn't lock, the chip sees something dumb like the loopback being down at -45dBFS so it cranks the gain on all of its internal amplifiers to __correct__ the loss. This results in one or more of the internal amplifiers saturating and you end up with horrible intermod. I was seeing -10dBC ACPR on a simple 1MHz QPSK signal. Sure, you can save off good calibrations or do it by hand, but if the simple loopback cal doesn't work and won't tell the user, the chip is irremediably broken.
For example, when userspace requests a certain TX gain, the chip does some calibration black box magic to determine the best way to distribute that gain across the internal amplifies. Nothing special here, the AD9361 does the same thing. The Lime chip will inexplicably fail the calibration but __will continue to operate__. If the PLL didn't lock, the chip sees something dumb like the loopback being down at -45dBFS so it cranks the gain on all of its internal amplifiers to __correct__ the loss. This results in one or more of the internal amplifiers saturating and you end up with horrible intermod. I was seeing -10dBC ACPR on a simple 1MHz QPSK signal. Sure, you can save off good calibrations or do it by hand, but if the simple loopback cal doesn't work and won't tell the user, the chip is irremediably broken.
>using the lib-iio framework
You say this like it's a good thing. It's one of the most generic, do everything gigantic overhead drivers I've heard of. On the pluto it limits things to 4 MS/s when without that libiio overhead it can push double that over the USB interface. I suppose things might be different with top of the line AD transceivers.
You say this like it's a good thing. It's one of the most generic, do everything gigantic overhead drivers I've heard of. On the pluto it limits things to 4 MS/s when without that libiio overhead it can push double that over the USB interface. I suppose things might be different with top of the line AD transceivers.
You're right, it's not great for actual products. I was talking more about prototyping and debugging. It's super nice to be able to just do a "cat /sys/bus/iio/.../.../out_voltage1" or build a simple tool that does that for you.
AMEN! I thought it was good for prototyping and on-off devices but I’ve been appalled at how many products ship with it
[deleted]
Latest in a trend of silicon industry consolidation.
A few other major moves in the embedded market over the last five years:
NXP + Freescale in 2015
Microchip + Atmel in 2016
ON Semi + Fairchild in 2016
Infineon + Cypress in 2020
NXP + Freescale in 2015
Microchip + Atmel in 2016
ON Semi + Fairchild in 2016
Infineon + Cypress in 2020
It's interesting to note that none of the merged companies are fabless.
Analog and low-to-mid complexity digital designs don't usually use the smallest, newest, most expensive silicon processes that you need for processors, GPUs, and FPGAs. You generally need capacitors, precision resistors, and wider voltage ranges more than you do billions of transistors.
Maybe now that these older fabs are being forced to run as actual businesses rather than as bleeding-edge science projects, semiconductor design companies are able to bring them back into the fold to avoid dealing with the headaches of being fabless.
It's too bad though, because this adds a huge capital cost to what would otherwise be a really ripe opportunity for a new competitor. This consolidation has definitely brought higher prices and reduced the diversity of available parts.
The unit economics of analog ICs should be very good -- a product that needs 1/100th the silicon surface area and sells for 1/10th the price, using a much cheaper node than a modern digital IC. There should be plenty of room for a company to compete with Analog Devices on price while still making a killing.
Analog and low-to-mid complexity digital designs don't usually use the smallest, newest, most expensive silicon processes that you need for processors, GPUs, and FPGAs. You generally need capacitors, precision resistors, and wider voltage ranges more than you do billions of transistors.
Maybe now that these older fabs are being forced to run as actual businesses rather than as bleeding-edge science projects, semiconductor design companies are able to bring them back into the fold to avoid dealing with the headaches of being fabless.
It's too bad though, because this adds a huge capital cost to what would otherwise be a really ripe opportunity for a new competitor. This consolidation has definitely brought higher prices and reduced the diversity of available parts.
The unit economics of analog ICs should be very good -- a product that needs 1/100th the silicon surface area and sells for 1/10th the price, using a much cheaper node than a modern digital IC. There should be plenty of room for a company to compete with Analog Devices on price while still making a killing.
None of these companies are pushing the process side and are able to run on old, well-depreciated fabs. Their business is uninteresting to the fabless giants. Why? After all they have old fabs too. But most of the embedded suppliers are forced to be low margin providers (often commodity or quasi-commodity parts only a couple of steps up the food chain from passives). They don’t have any margin to give away to the fabless guys.
Analog is a bit different in that “node” doesn’t really apply, but they are also not in the high value part of the value chain for the most part.
Analog is a bit different in that “node” doesn’t really apply, but they are also not in the high value part of the value chain for the most part.
could you kindly elaborate on some of the headaches of being fabless?
The design cycle time is longer. Every prototype requires a formal agreement with one of the fabs you work with, and usually involves a few million dollars changing hands. A few months is usually the minimum.
Even if it's expensive, owning a fab means you have the option to make prototypes of a design, or of parts of a design. You will never, ever do this if you're fabless.
We're good at simulating digital logic, but simulating analog designs is more difficult, and each process tends to have unique quirks. You want your designers to be familiar with these quirks, which is easier to do when everybody designing and using a process is under the same roof.
If you're making a chip that has exotic needs (voltage ranges, threshold voltages, RF performance, noise, thermal properties, bipolar + cmos, etc.) you will have more ability to tweak the process. Foundry type fabs typically offer a smaller "menu" of options that they're comfortable they can support. For example, I think you might have a hard time competing with some of AD's more expensive ADCs as a fabless semiconductor company.
Don't get me wrong... there are plenty of headaches to owning and operating a fab too.
Even if it's expensive, owning a fab means you have the option to make prototypes of a design, or of parts of a design. You will never, ever do this if you're fabless.
We're good at simulating digital logic, but simulating analog designs is more difficult, and each process tends to have unique quirks. You want your designers to be familiar with these quirks, which is easier to do when everybody designing and using a process is under the same roof.
If you're making a chip that has exotic needs (voltage ranges, threshold voltages, RF performance, noise, thermal properties, bipolar + cmos, etc.) you will have more ability to tweak the process. Foundry type fabs typically offer a smaller "menu" of options that they're comfortable they can support. For example, I think you might have a hard time competing with some of AD's more expensive ADCs as a fabless semiconductor company.
Don't get me wrong... there are plenty of headaches to owning and operating a fab too.
Did everyone with an interest here see the post here [0] a week ago about free fabbing for 130nm open-source chips?
There's certainly the possibility to do analog chips here, but it would take a big team effort.
(have only dabbled a bit with FPGAs with soft-cores, last project I used one for was ~2009: running Linux on an Altera NIOS core, where we sampled at 100 Msps from an input until we filled up the RAM, then more slowly dumped it over Ethernet to a PC)
[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23755693
There's certainly the possibility to do analog chips here, but it would take a big team effort.
(have only dabbled a bit with FPGAs with soft-cores, last project I used one for was ~2009: running Linux on an Altera NIOS core, where we sampled at 100 Msps from an input until we filled up the RAM, then more slowly dumped it over Ethernet to a PC)
[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23755693
is a fab the only way to make prototypes or parts of a design? for instance, could 3D printers one day solve this part of the stack?
thanks for the detailed explanation!
thanks for the detailed explanation!
Being fabless has quite a few advantages too, the cost of building / running a fab is huge, so can only be afforded by major player, or folks who can live on very old process nodes. Most startups, and even ADI themselves use the later nodes like 16nm with external fabs like TSMC.
The early age of the semiconductor industry was definitely much more interesting than today's world of oligopolies and company consolidation. It's quite disappointing to see the big names in the industry have all vanished.
* Motorola => Freescale & ON Semiconductor
* Fairchild Semiconductor => ON Semiconductor
* Dallas Semiconductor => Maxim
* Signetics => Philips Semiconductors => NXP
* Freescale => NXP
* National Semiconductor => Texas Instruments
* Linear Technology => Analog Devices
* Atheros => Qualcomm
* Intersil => Renesas
* Atmel => Microchip
* Motorola => Freescale & ON Semiconductor
* Fairchild Semiconductor => ON Semiconductor
* Dallas Semiconductor => Maxim
* Signetics => Philips Semiconductors => NXP
* Freescale => NXP
* National Semiconductor => Texas Instruments
* Linear Technology => Analog Devices
* Atheros => Qualcomm
* Intersil => Renesas
* Atmel => Microchip
> today's world of oligopolies and company consolidation
How long until we have to sign a license agreement before we can use an OpAmp? Oh, and the license is only valid for consumer applications. Want to use the OpAmp for enterprise applications? That'll cost you more.
That's if we're lucky. In a darker scenario, all OpAmp designs have been bought by Apple, and you can't even use one if you opened your iPhone because the function has been integrated into the CPU.
How long until we have to sign a license agreement before we can use an OpAmp? Oh, and the license is only valid for consumer applications. Want to use the OpAmp for enterprise applications? That'll cost you more.
That's if we're lucky. In a darker scenario, all OpAmp designs have been bought by Apple, and you can't even use one if you opened your iPhone because the function has been integrated into the CPU.
Fortunately so far we don't need to sign a license agreement to use an Intel CPU, yet. OpAmp EULA doesn't look like something currently on the horizon. But if an EULAed CPU ever became true, so will an EULAed OpAmp...
> In a darker scenario, all OpAmp designs have been bought by Apple, and you can't even use one if you opened your iPhone because the function has been integrated into the CPU.
Scary, because many microcontrollers already have OpAmps built into them...
> In a darker scenario, all OpAmp designs have been bought by Apple, and you can't even use one if you opened your iPhone because the function has been integrated into the CPU.
Scary, because many microcontrollers already have OpAmps built into them...
Making hardware hasn't gotten any easier except at the edges where open source has taken a hold, but it seems like the only reason you'd want to design hardware anymore is to have more vertical control. Tesla, Apple, Google are all prime examples.
The margins on an OK product just aren't worth it, and to be competitive you have to build the whole thing and provide a reference design that's within 20% of the best out there to even break even. No surprise the market is all oligopolies. If there wasn't open source and affordable fab services coming up, there would really be no hope.
The margins on an OK product just aren't worth it, and to be competitive you have to build the whole thing and provide a reference design that's within 20% of the best out there to even break even. No surprise the market is all oligopolies. If there wasn't open source and affordable fab services coming up, there would really be no hope.
Can't say I like the prospects of all these companies consolidating and throwing out "redundant parts".
+1. This can be terrible. When Avago acquired Broadcom (and kept Broadcom's name), initially they continued selling existing components for a while, then suddenly discontinued hundreds of discrete RF/microwave parts (some were inherited from Agilent and even Hewlett-Packard's days) because they are "legacy parts". No! It was a huge pain. Many of those, despite their old age, are still good and useful, it's just because the demand and profit from discrete parts are low, and the new management decided it's not worth keeping them.
On the other hand, after Analog purchased Linear, many of the high-performance Linear parts are still sold side-by-side with competing Analog parts today, Analog even created a "Powered by Linear" product line for selling Linear power converter chips. It was a wise decision, apparently the management knew those parts from Linear are of great value. I hope Analog will adopt a similar solution for these Maxim parts.
On the other hand, after Analog purchased Linear, many of the high-performance Linear parts are still sold side-by-side with competing Analog parts today, Analog even created a "Powered by Linear" product line for selling Linear power converter chips. It was a wise decision, apparently the management knew those parts from Linear are of great value. I hope Analog will adopt a similar solution for these Maxim parts.
Yeah, I was using a 30 dBm, L-band part that they discontinued, and had to redesign a PA section. Didn't HP acquire Avantek back in the 90's? I used to use a bunch of ATF-xxx parts.
I see, it's mergers all the way down!
Discontinued parts also included passive parts originally made by the HP Components subsidiary from the 1980s, such as special Schottky diodes and PIN diodes for RF/microwave applications, up to 10 GHz, still perfectly working today. For example, HP's jelly-bean HSMS‑282x series 6 GHz Schottky diodes was the go-to choice in RF circuits (even at lower frequencies like VHF and UHF) for three decades and still in production as of 2016 - you can find their datasheets with an HP logo, another with an Agilent logo, another with an Avago logo, and the last one with a Broadcom logo - and they eventually came to an end when Broadcom killed them in 2017 after Avago's acquisition.
I was hit by this. On a recent weekend I was tinkering with a DIY software-defined amateur radio receiver design and needed some RF diodes, only to find all of them have been killed, and similar parts from NXP were not stocked by the local distributor, 10-day shipping... A friend told me that they have switched to Skyworks diodes since then. The legendary life and unfortunate death of HP diodes.
Discontinued parts also included passive parts originally made by the HP Components subsidiary from the 1980s, such as special Schottky diodes and PIN diodes for RF/microwave applications, up to 10 GHz, still perfectly working today. For example, HP's jelly-bean HSMS‑282x series 6 GHz Schottky diodes was the go-to choice in RF circuits (even at lower frequencies like VHF and UHF) for three decades and still in production as of 2016 - you can find their datasheets with an HP logo, another with an Agilent logo, another with an Avago logo, and the last one with a Broadcom logo - and they eventually came to an end when Broadcom killed them in 2017 after Avago's acquisition.
I was hit by this. On a recent weekend I was tinkering with a DIY software-defined amateur radio receiver design and needed some RF diodes, only to find all of them have been killed, and similar parts from NXP were not stocked by the local distributor, 10-day shipping... A friend told me that they have switched to Skyworks diodes since then. The legendary life and unfortunate death of HP diodes.
Gonna be left with just 2-3 major players soon...
In this same market: Analog bought Linear Tech, TI bought National.
I'm waiting for them to buy Vicor
What are the good reports/journals to read if you want to learn more about the competitive landscape here?
eetimes.com[0] is usually a decent place for general electronic industry news.
Tip: scroll down to pass the sponsored content to see the full news section below the fold.
[0] https://eetimes.com/
Tip: scroll down to pass the sponsored content to see the full news section below the fold.
[0] https://eetimes.com/
Good recommendation.
That being said, I was disappointed with EE Times’s vacuous take on this merger this morning. They have changed hands, and managed to survive, but like most of the vertical literature are a shadow of their former selves.
Here’s the editorial, written by the publisher: https://www.eetimes.com/maxim-is-a-pit-stop-wheres-adi-heade...
That being said, I was disappointed with EE Times’s vacuous take on this merger this morning. They have changed hands, and managed to survive, but like most of the vertical literature are a shadow of their former selves.
Here’s the editorial, written by the publisher: https://www.eetimes.com/maxim-is-a-pit-stop-wheres-adi-heade...
Intel + Altera 2015
And, not in your scope, but AMD acquires ATI, 2006, still has some echos. Also, Atheros/Qualcomm 2011.
And, not in your scope, but AMD acquires ATI, 2006, still has some echos. Also, Atheros/Qualcomm 2011.
ADI + Linear in 2017 is more relevant to this transaction.
Couldn’t you say the same for most industries?
Broadcom and Avago and a bunch of others.
I've actually liked Analog Device's documentation as a hobbyist. Their chips are a bit of a premium compared to others, but Analog Devices often have LTSpice and PSpice models that I can play with in a simulator before buying.
I guess Analog Devices makes LTSpice, so it makes sense that they'd be all in for that kind of support.
I guess Analog Devices makes LTSpice, so it makes sense that they'd be all in for that kind of support.
Analog have one of the greatest "app notes" ever by one of the great engineers. It's practically an EE course module on its own, a huge volume of useful information with examples and scope traces to prove points.
https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/appl...
"High Speed Amplifier Techniques
A Designer’s Companion for Wideband Circuitry
Jim Williams
This publication represents the largest LTC commitmentto an application note to date. No other application noteabsorbed as much effort, took so long or cost so much."
https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/appl...
"High Speed Amplifier Techniques
A Designer’s Companion for Wideband Circuitry
Jim Williams
This publication represents the largest LTC commitmentto an application note to date. No other application noteabsorbed as much effort, took so long or cost so much."
‘Bought’ one of. I’m still bitter about TI buying BB tbh.
More of his app notes for the curious: http://readingjimwilliams.blogspot.com/
More of his app notes for the curious: http://readingjimwilliams.blogspot.com/
If you like this stuff you should check out the work of the gifted and funny Bob Pease both in EDN for many years and at National. Here’s a lovely bio from autodeskmof all places: https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/whats-all-this-...
While Analog Device's datasheets are surely good, on the other hand, many of Analog's excellent datasheets are inherited from Linear Technology, which was also known for its excellent documentation. Linear's engineer Jim Williams had a huge reputation of writing the best datasheets and application notes in the industry, see [0].
[0] http://web.mit.edu/klund/www/jw/jwbib.pdf
[0] http://web.mit.edu/klund/www/jw/jwbib.pdf
> I've actually liked Analog Device's documentation as a hobbyist
Even reading their datasheets, I often felt like I was being taught a full lesson on the topic, which is great when you're an amateur and lack some of the foundational knowledge.
Even reading their datasheets, I often felt like I was being taught a full lesson on the topic, which is great when you're an amateur and lack some of the foundational knowledge.
Linear Technologies makes LTSpice - Analog bought Linear in 2016.
"Analog Dialogue" contains an approximation of all human knowledge. Download the archives today.
Here's a trivial python script to download them, for the lazy among us.
https://gist.github.com/dantler/f26d75f1051db13649aaedf73f7d...
https://gist.github.com/dantler/f26d75f1051db13649aaedf73f7d...
Awesome sauce. Even runs on Windows, as long as wget is in the path.
Thanks - this is very useful. Any idea how I can adapt this to download articles behind paywalls? For instance for bookmark archival?
Perhaps adapt something like https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome to run in a scripted headless environment?
Thanks for pointing this publication out, looks pretty interesting!
https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/archives.html
https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/archives.html
You would also love Xilinx Xcell journal.
https://www.xilinx.com/about/xcell-publications/xcell-journa...
https://www.xilinx.com/about/xcell-publications/xcell-journa...
AD is my benchmark for datasheets.
I personally like TIs datasheets the best. They always have the same layout and has the right amount of detail.
As a hobbyist, I'm blown away by datasheets in general. Can you imagine if the software world woke up and hired a few technical writers from the Electrical Engineering world to document our APIs and other various systems?
Software has long tried to copy the EE model of selling "components", but the market has never really worked - most libraries are either written on zero budget by volunteers, or are forced on you by the platform.
A bit of a premium? I'd say their prices are an insult to their customers. It's not even new chips where you'd expect this as they need to recoup NRE. Oh no, they price gouge on designs that are decades old.
Avoid them at all cost.
Avoid them at all cost.
Yes, they are expensive, but their products are generally of really high performance. In some cases, there are no actual competitors. Just take a look at the AD936x-class of RF ICs. What is the alternative to a part like that?
ADI's documentation--relative to many chip makers--is outstanding. They have EVBs for almost all of their parts, open source hardware designs as well as firmware--and support that does not require you to tell them you'll order 100,000 pieces next year.
I wish as much as anyone else that they sold their products for less, but the market clearly supports their existing prices.
ADI's documentation--relative to many chip makers--is outstanding. They have EVBs for almost all of their parts, open source hardware designs as well as firmware--and support that does not require you to tell them you'll order 100,000 pieces next year.
I wish as much as anyone else that they sold their products for less, but the market clearly supports their existing prices.
Yeah, AD (and LTC, before AD bought them) had the best documentation. And for low volume hobby production the added BOM cost isn't a big deal, it's definitely worth the time saved in reverse-engineering the part due to incomplete documentation. Due to that it sometimes even saves money, since you're less likely to destroy the part when trying to figure out how to use it.
They really are.
$5 for a $2 op-amp or a regulator is one thing, but when you need something slightly special, it goes to $10 or $20, just because TI doesn't have a comparable part. If you need more than a handful in your design, you're screwed.
Yeah, their parts generally are very good, but the industry isn't healthy if they're the only company with good designs.
All this consolidation has left a lot of room for a good competitor. We're not seeing one here in the US, because students today think analog stuff is terrifying black magic and avoid it like the plague, but I'm a little surprised we haven't seen any serious competitors out of China, since analog designs don't usually need the crazy expensive silicon processes that digital designs do.
Also, for the same $20, would you rather sell a 0.5 cm^2 microprocessor at 45 nm, or a 0.1 cm^2 analog to digital converter at 130 nm? Analog ICs should be a really good business.
$5 for a $2 op-amp or a regulator is one thing, but when you need something slightly special, it goes to $10 or $20, just because TI doesn't have a comparable part. If you need more than a handful in your design, you're screwed.
Yeah, their parts generally are very good, but the industry isn't healthy if they're the only company with good designs.
All this consolidation has left a lot of room for a good competitor. We're not seeing one here in the US, because students today think analog stuff is terrifying black magic and avoid it like the plague, but I'm a little surprised we haven't seen any serious competitors out of China, since analog designs don't usually need the crazy expensive silicon processes that digital designs do.
Also, for the same $20, would you rather sell a 0.5 cm^2 microprocessor at 45 nm, or a 0.1 cm^2 analog to digital converter at 130 nm? Analog ICs should be a really good business.
Students don't avoid it because analog is black magic, they avoid it because there's only a handful of places you can work at with that skill set.
In the United States, today, an RF design engineer's job prospects are mostly limited to military contractors.
In the United States, today, an RF design engineer's job prospects are mostly limited to military contractors.
>> Yeah, their parts generally are very good, but the industry isn't healthy if they're the only company with good designs.
>> All this consolidation has left a lot of room for a good competitor.
Which will come from Asia. US companies seem to avoid competition as much as possible. The rather obvious outcome of that is they end up uncompetitive. The thing is, new stuff has to be developed while you are still profitable, not after someone is winning away your business.
>> All this consolidation has left a lot of room for a good competitor.
Which will come from Asia. US companies seem to avoid competition as much as possible. The rather obvious outcome of that is they end up uncompetitive. The thing is, new stuff has to be developed while you are still profitable, not after someone is winning away your business.
AD's opamps are like $5 instead of $2.
Since my home electronics projects are one-off things... the 250% increase for better documentation and better LTSpice models is well worth the $3 cost increase.
Since my home electronics projects are one-off things... the 250% increase for better documentation and better LTSpice models is well worth the $3 cost increase.
Every single time this happens it's because there isn't much money to be made due to the low volume of sales, therefore no competition and no economies of scale.
They make very exotic and state-of-the-art products. Where else would you get stuff like LTZ1000 or AD797?
They make very exotic and state-of-the-art products. Where else would you get stuff like LTZ1000 or AD797?
Better that something is expensive than that it is not for sale, and I'd rather pay up front than be shoehorned into some subscription model a-la software. Keep in mind that this stuff is physical and that software economies of scale do not apply. Not all of AD's chips are sold by the billion.
They're expensive until your application require that level of performance.
The idea that prices should depend in any way of costs is ridiculous.
The idea that prices should depend in any way of costs is ridiculous.
Are there good and cheap alternatives? (Asking out of curiosity, I know almost nothing about this kind of hardware.)
Chip costs are pretty low, all else considered. Yeah, AD is more expensive but I spend way less time reading documentation.
If you're a hobbyist like me, you don't really care about spending $5 on a chip instead of $2 on a chip... especially when you're paying multiples of that for the PCB and other parts of the equation.
If you're a hobbyist like me, you don't really care about spending $5 on a chip instead of $2 on a chip... especially when you're paying multiples of that for the PCB and other parts of the equation.
Part of the fun of hobby building is you can design your stuff any way you want. Maybe nobody will mass-produce an audio preamp with $20 opamps inside, but you can DIY one if you feel like it.
I built a digital audio interface with an ADI ultra-low-noise clock generator. It was a $20 part. That's a ridiculous price but it's also only $20.
I built a digital audio interface with an ADI ultra-low-noise clock generator. It was a $20 part. That's a ridiculous price but it's also only $20.
Also especially for audio stuff it's not like all op amps have to be high spec. At the edge (input/output) components matter much more than inside the circuit, where levels and impedances can be designed in. A low-noise BiFET op amp makes a ton of sense for pre-amp, but as a generic buffer or whatever amplifier between stages, not so much. Even in 2020 a NE5532 is a fine choice in those places.
In general, you can always substitute a high-quality, expensive op-amp for a cheap op-amp.
From the perspective of a hobbyist with limited space: you want to minimize the SKUs that you stock in your personal shelves. Buying a higher-end op-amp and spamming it everywhere (even when its specs aren't needed) is far simpler than buying 10x different op-amps at the $0.50, $1, $1.50, $2, $3, $4, and $5 price points.
Just keep a supply of higher-quality $5 rail-to-rail low-bias op-amps at the voltage-level (3.3V for most Arduino projects).
Yeah, there's probably a $0.50 op-amp that does the job. But do you really want to keep another SKU on your shelf and keep track of it? There's simplicity in just buying over-specced parts for personal hobby projects.
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Well... maybe keep a stock of the $0.50 stuff too (EDIT: Ah right, LMV358. That's the cheap part I keep around). But I think you get my gist. Personal-supply closet management is certainly a problem for the personal hobbyist.
From the perspective of a hobbyist with limited space: you want to minimize the SKUs that you stock in your personal shelves. Buying a higher-end op-amp and spamming it everywhere (even when its specs aren't needed) is far simpler than buying 10x different op-amps at the $0.50, $1, $1.50, $2, $3, $4, and $5 price points.
Just keep a supply of higher-quality $5 rail-to-rail low-bias op-amps at the voltage-level (3.3V for most Arduino projects).
Yeah, there's probably a $0.50 op-amp that does the job. But do you really want to keep another SKU on your shelf and keep track of it? There's simplicity in just buying over-specced parts for personal hobby projects.
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Well... maybe keep a stock of the $0.50 stuff too (EDIT: Ah right, LMV358. That's the cheap part I keep around). But I think you get my gist. Personal-supply closet management is certainly a problem for the personal hobbyist.
> In general, you can always substitute a high-quality, expensive op-amp for a cheap op-amp.
Yes, it will work in general. Unless the expensive opamp has a significantly wider bandwidth, then one must use with caution. Switching from a low bandwidth opamp to a high bandwidth opamp is especially problematic, the loop characteristics are different and it may need additional frequency compensation or bandwidth limiting, the original layout may become inadequate, etc. More often than not, a blind replacement make it oscillate like crazy.
Sometimes having a bunch of cheap opamps makes life easier.
And financially - your heart and wallet won't start bleeding when your $0.5 opamp is unexpectedly zapped by ESD, cooked in soldering, or fried in an overload. Killing a $10 ASIC is a big deal (just did that last week while prototyping an ASIC controller, but there isn't anything cheaper on the market).
Yes, it will work in general. Unless the expensive opamp has a significantly wider bandwidth, then one must use with caution. Switching from a low bandwidth opamp to a high bandwidth opamp is especially problematic, the loop characteristics are different and it may need additional frequency compensation or bandwidth limiting, the original layout may become inadequate, etc. More often than not, a blind replacement make it oscillate like crazy.
Sometimes having a bunch of cheap opamps makes life easier.
And financially - your heart and wallet won't start bleeding when your $0.5 opamp is unexpectedly zapped by ESD, cooked in soldering, or fried in an overload. Killing a $10 ASIC is a big deal (just did that last week while prototyping an ASIC controller, but there isn't anything cheaper on the market).
Do you have any information on your digial audio interface you can share? Seems like an interesting project.
Not that exciting really. I built an instrument that could measure very small levels of harmonic distortion induced by converter phase noise. Then, being so equipped, I made a converter with immeasurable phase noise. The instrumentation was the exciting part, in all honesty. $1000 off-the-shelf pro converters now exceed its performance.
I feel like "Not that exciting really" is underselling it given that your hobby project is matching current $1000 pro equipment, but that could just be my own ignorance with the subject matter.
It's nice of you to say so. That's the nature of DIY. A hobbyist has some aesthetic or objective performance goals, but they have no economic goals, so the range of things that hobbyists build greatly exceeds the range of commercially available equipment.
I'm working on a pretty expensive piece of measurement equipment and the $12 AD7193 I'm using seems expensive until you see how crazy accurate this thing is. It's worth every penny.
Hobbyists don't make up even a tiny sliver of their revenue. And if you're a hobbyist and paying any money at all for Analog Devices (or other semiconductor manufacturer's parts) then you're kinda doing it wrong - most of them have free samples:
https://www.analog.com/en/support/customer-service-resources...
https://www.analog.com/en/support/customer-service-resources...
If you'd told me in, say, 2005 that old-line semiconductor businesses like TI and ADI would be trading at all-time highs in 2020, I would have said you were nuts.
Someone's gotta make IGBTs to support all those fancy new electric stuff, be it batteries, cars, transformers, etc. etc. IGBTs have had incredible process gains, leading to improved efficiencies (and therefore: less waste heat / waste power) in many applications.
The march of progress continues forward. Its not computer tech per se... but power-tech and analog-tech is incredibly important still.
I'd argue that without modern IGBTs, it'd be impossible to make an electric car today. Its probably one of the most major sources of efficiency in the modern electric vehicle. The power-switch that controls "on" vs "off" needs to be incredibly efficient when you're shoving 200+ kW of energy through it!!
Case in point: lets say 200kW of power is being used by the motor at 375V. That's 500+ Amps of current. A resistance of 0.1 Ohms would waste 25,000 Watts of energy (power == current^2 * resistance)... in the switch / transistor itself before the motors even got the energy.
The march of progress continues forward. Its not computer tech per se... but power-tech and analog-tech is incredibly important still.
I'd argue that without modern IGBTs, it'd be impossible to make an electric car today. Its probably one of the most major sources of efficiency in the modern electric vehicle. The power-switch that controls "on" vs "off" needs to be incredibly efficient when you're shoving 200+ kW of energy through it!!
Case in point: lets say 200kW of power is being used by the motor at 375V. That's 500+ Amps of current. A resistance of 0.1 Ohms would waste 25,000 Watts of energy (power == current^2 * resistance)... in the switch / transistor itself before the motors even got the energy.
The power-switch that controls "on" vs "off" needs to be incredibly efficient when you're shoving 200+ kW of energy through it!!
Yeah, when I was working in EVs everything was about reducing losses. Not just for efficiency but because a few percent loss is a LOT of heat.
I ran an inverter at 200kW that was not rated for that. The weak point was actually the DC connector. I didn't find that out the hard way, just looked it up as I was closing in on 600 Amps DC.
BTW I just needed to find 2 values empirically and was unable to because of that DC current. Strange enough I figured running at a lower voltage would reduce max power and I could get my values. Unfortunately half the voltage is half the power but still the same current. Higher speed had similar issues. Project got cancelled before I found that motors limits.
Yeah, when I was working in EVs everything was about reducing losses. Not just for efficiency but because a few percent loss is a LOT of heat.
I ran an inverter at 200kW that was not rated for that. The weak point was actually the DC connector. I didn't find that out the hard way, just looked it up as I was closing in on 600 Amps DC.
BTW I just needed to find 2 values empirically and was unable to because of that DC current. Strange enough I figured running at a lower voltage would reduce max power and I could get my values. Unfortunately half the voltage is half the power but still the same current. Higher speed had similar issues. Project got cancelled before I found that motors limits.
> I'd argue that without modern IGBTs, it'd be impossible to make an electric car today.
Er, everybody switched to SiC MOSFETs, so... definitely not.
> The power-switch that controls "on" vs "off" needs to be incredibly efficient when you're shoving 200+ kW of energy through it!!
Even before SiC became economical, FETs were edging out IGBTs in most applications. The voltage drop across IGBTs is just too high.
In fact SiCs have worse on/off efficiency, but are still preferred because they can switch more quickly and in the end that makes them more efficient, overall.
> Its probably one of the most major sources of efficiency in the modern electric vehicle.
I would give that to the battery or the motors before the controller. Controller have been >97% efficient for ages and ages, but motors are another thing entirely and better computers, salient rotors and permanent magnets, and better characterization have led to bigger gains than the switching elements have seen.
Neither hold a candle to batteries though. The resistance of switches is <10 milliohms, and motor resistance isn't much higher. The resistance of a 400 volt, 250 Ah NiMH battery is around 180 milliohms. The same battery built with venerable NCR18650Bs (original model S) is 68 milliohms. That's a full 7x improvement, or an 86% reduction in loss, and by far the biggest inefficiency besides aerodynamics and rolling friction.
Er, everybody switched to SiC MOSFETs, so... definitely not.
> The power-switch that controls "on" vs "off" needs to be incredibly efficient when you're shoving 200+ kW of energy through it!!
Even before SiC became economical, FETs were edging out IGBTs in most applications. The voltage drop across IGBTs is just too high.
In fact SiCs have worse on/off efficiency, but are still preferred because they can switch more quickly and in the end that makes them more efficient, overall.
> Its probably one of the most major sources of efficiency in the modern electric vehicle.
I would give that to the battery or the motors before the controller. Controller have been >97% efficient for ages and ages, but motors are another thing entirely and better computers, salient rotors and permanent magnets, and better characterization have led to bigger gains than the switching elements have seen.
Neither hold a candle to batteries though. The resistance of switches is <10 milliohms, and motor resistance isn't much higher. The resistance of a 400 volt, 250 Ah NiMH battery is around 180 milliohms. The same battery built with venerable NCR18650Bs (original model S) is 68 milliohms. That's a full 7x improvement, or an 86% reduction in loss, and by far the biggest inefficiency besides aerodynamics and rolling friction.
> The resistance of a 400 volt, 250 Ah NiMH battery is around 180 milliohms. The same battery built with venerable NCR18650Bs (original model S) is 68 milliohms. That's a full 7x improvement
Power dissipated by resistance is only linearly (not quadratically) related to resistance when current is relatively fixed: P=(I^2)R. So reducing the parasitic resistance from 180mΩ to 68mΩ is only a 2.6x improvement, albeit still quite significant.
Power dissipated by resistance is only linearly (not quadratically) related to resistance when current is relatively fixed: P=(I^2)R. So reducing the parasitic resistance from 180mΩ to 68mΩ is only a 2.6x improvement, albeit still quite significant.
> Er, everybody switched to SiC MOSFETs, so... definitely not.
Definitely not everybody are on SiC parts, let alone MOSFET only designs. Though, the trends is for at least some hybrid SiC parts as they are getting cheaper.
When switching speeds are low enough (as is in EVs,) you don't need that much switching performance. Current Si IGBTs are quite viable in EVs, if you switch high enough voltage.
There is a reason why rail is still preferring high voltage AC for traction. That's because Si IGBTs for that are cheap, and efficient enough.
Definitely not everybody are on SiC parts, let alone MOSFET only designs. Though, the trends is for at least some hybrid SiC parts as they are getting cheaper.
When switching speeds are low enough (as is in EVs,) you don't need that much switching performance. Current Si IGBTs are quite viable in EVs, if you switch high enough voltage.
There is a reason why rail is still preferring high voltage AC for traction. That's because Si IGBTs for that are cheap, and efficient enough.
My bull case on CREE was their silicon-carbide rectifier tech was important for power supplies, but I can tell you without even glancing at the chart that CREE is not trading at an all-time high :=)
I always thought of ADI as a company with ASICs like PLLs and MEMS and whatever. Are IGBT drivers an important line of business for them (I don't follow the company closely).
If you look at another company that makes a shitload of power semiconductors, like Infineon, they are struggling.
I always thought of ADI as a company with ASICs like PLLs and MEMS and whatever. Are IGBT drivers an important line of business for them (I don't follow the company closely).
If you look at another company that makes a shitload of power semiconductors, like Infineon, they are struggling.
You should look again. CREE is very near all time highs actually (especially if you ignore the 2000 bubble).
CREE is a large but shrinking LED business tied to a small but growing SiC business. At some point the SiC part will overshadow the LED part and CREE will be seen as a growing successful tech company again.
CREE is a large but shrinking LED business tied to a small but growing SiC business. At some point the SiC part will overshadow the LED part and CREE will be seen as a growing successful tech company again.
> I always thought of ADI as a company with ASICs like PLLs and MEMS and whatever. Are IGBT drivers an important line of business for them (I don't follow the company closely).
IGBTs were more of a TI-comment. I see TI as more of the power-company.
I like talking about IGBTs because its superficially a simple subject. It just a switch: power turns on, power turns off. But when you really consider the shear level of efficiency being developed today, its mind-boggling.
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You're right that I don't see ADI as an IGBT (or similar) company. But I just sorta went on a tangent, hooking into your TI-comment more so than ADI.
IGBTs were more of a TI-comment. I see TI as more of the power-company.
I like talking about IGBTs because its superficially a simple subject. It just a switch: power turns on, power turns off. But when you really consider the shear level of efficiency being developed today, its mind-boggling.
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You're right that I don't see ADI as an IGBT (or similar) company. But I just sorta went on a tangent, hooking into your TI-comment more so than ADI.
I think it's AD/DA conversion product lines that are really driving profitability - and I suspect mainly the RF stuff.
It seems ADI still hasn't surpassed its all-time high of 108 $ (which it reached in 2000), though it's awfully close. Then again if we add the inflation we are still nowhere close the earlier valuation.
It closed at $124.50 last week.
Seems I overlooked that, you're absolutely right. Still with the inflation I think the stock isn't worth as much as on its historic high, though it seems to gain good momentum again.
Do we actually know where we're at in terms of inflation after the $2T were pumped into a lame economy earlier this year?
Downvoted by anonymous cowards yet again. Is it because
- the idea of injecting money into a lame economy causing inflation is preposterous
- comparing historic stock market prices w/o inflation data is perfectly sensible
or
- that inflation data is readily available to everyone and doesn't need to be dragged into the discussion here?
Well, I'm afraid, we'll never know.
- the idea of injecting money into a lame economy causing inflation is preposterous
- comparing historic stock market prices w/o inflation data is perfectly sensible
or
- that inflation data is readily available to everyone and doesn't need to be dragged into the discussion here?
Well, I'm afraid, we'll never know.
Part of my job (scientific researcher) involves designing high bandwidth circuits with analog electronics (op-amps, transistors, LCR filters, etc.). I really enjoy this part but it's not really my core responsibility. Thinking of potential (long in the future) career changes, does anyone know if this sort of stuff is still done commercially in more than just a few niche fields? Or is it all FPGAs/ASICs these days? And are there any tech companies employing people to mix this sort of thing with software and firmware development too? A sort of "full stack" developer where the stack also includes the hardware side.
It's definitely done commercially. It's "niche", in the sense that you'll have to go where the jobs are, but those niches can be huge. Audio, power, and RF electronics all need analog design.
Look into software-defined radio. An opportunity for you to learn something about FPGAs and ASICs, but good analog design skills are vitally important to make it all work in the end!
More as background to ADI's acquisition of Linear Tech, but often these acquisitions come down to one chipmaker's desire to offer a full system. Take for instance Analog Devices' RF converters: https://www.analog.com/en/applications/technology/rf-convert...
These chips cost hundreds or thousands of dollars and are meant for base stations. Analog Devices wants to get a contract with Nokia or anyone else and then also be able to sell the LDOs, PLLs, and clock devices that go along with it (https://www.analog.com/en/products/AD9213.html#product-tools). Linear Tech was the leader in power and the name is still used for new power products under the "Power by Linear" name with ADI. Hittite offers a number of RF chips. If you're paying $1k for a data converter, what's an extra $50 for all the analog/RF support circuitry? They may even throw it in for free. If you have a complex system with analog/RF/digital circuitry, offering a full reference design with other parts from your own catalog is a great way to ensure that those parts are used.
These chips cost hundreds or thousands of dollars and are meant for base stations. Analog Devices wants to get a contract with Nokia or anyone else and then also be able to sell the LDOs, PLLs, and clock devices that go along with it (https://www.analog.com/en/products/AD9213.html#product-tools). Linear Tech was the leader in power and the name is still used for new power products under the "Power by Linear" name with ADI. Hittite offers a number of RF chips. If you're paying $1k for a data converter, what's an extra $50 for all the analog/RF support circuitry? They may even throw it in for free. If you have a complex system with analog/RF/digital circuitry, offering a full reference design with other parts from your own catalog is a great way to ensure that those parts are used.
Does this mean that Maxim will finally have reasonable lead times and availability?
If so, that's a pretty big change to the industry.
If so, that's a pretty big change to the industry.
Good chance of that. As a 'smaller' (compared to the giants) player Maxim was doing everything they could to not pay a premium for fab capacity and this has at times hampered their ability to supply product. Overall though I'd say they were quite good and one of the effects of them being a bit unreliable at times was that companies would stock up by buying larger batches which in turn worsened their ability to supply product.
I must admit I’m not familiar with these companies. Is anyone willing to explain the significance of this merger?
I guess they're companies you might not hear a lot about if you don't deal with designing electronics but if you do they're all over the place. You probably have at least a dozen components made by these companies within one meter of you as you're reading this message.
If you want practical examples of what they do, go to digikey.com, search for the company names and click randomly on one of the thousands of hits.
Here's a microcontroller: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/maxim-integrated/M...
Here's an I2C temperature sensor: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/maxim-integrated/M...
Here's an RF amplifier: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/maxim-integrated/M...
Here's a 3v3 DC-DC: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/linear-technology-...
If you want practical examples of what they do, go to digikey.com, search for the company names and click randomly on one of the thousands of hits.
Here's a microcontroller: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/maxim-integrated/M...
Here's an I2C temperature sensor: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/maxim-integrated/M...
Here's an RF amplifier: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/maxim-integrated/M...
Here's a 3v3 DC-DC: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/linear-technology-...
I know a lot of people like to search Digikey (or Mouser) for new parts... but please just use the manufacturer website. Digikey doesn't always carry every part, and their categorization is usually a bit messed up.
As an aside, AD has a large number of parts which are non-public. You will not find the part numbers (or any information about them) without an NDA and personal assistance from an AD rep.
As an aside, AD has a large number of parts which are non-public. You will not find the part numbers (or any information about them) without an NDA and personal assistance from an AD rep.
Fair enough, but often I'm looking for a part not by manufacturer but by functionality. Skimming through all the vendor's websites to find what I'm looking for and comparing the various products is a bit of a pain.
I agree that the categorization can be a bit tricky at times, but once you're used to it it's not terrible.
I agree that the categorization can be a bit tricky at times, but once you're used to it it's not terrible.
This exactly. I'm looking for commodity parts, I don't want to preemptively narrow that search.
Also often times you'll find some great component on e.g. Maxim's website, only to find no one distributes it, so it's effectively useless in the immediate sense.
Also often times you'll find some great component on e.g. Maxim's website, only to find no one distributes it, so it's effectively useless in the immediate sense.
> You will not find the part numbers (or any information about them) without an NDA and personal assistance from an AD rep.
As a hobbyist, this sucks so much. With PCB manufacturing reliable enough for high speed signalling being affordable and hackerspaces with soldering ovens in every major cities (and there was some startup - in NYC I believe - that you could give Eagle files and a product order list and they would buy you the components at Digikey and manufacture the board for you... anyone remember their name?!), it really really sucks that all the interesting stuff is hidden beyond such obscure walls.
You won't even find Intel Thunderbolt datasheets on obscure Chinese sites. Wtf? And then Intel complains about why people aren't adopting it?
As a hobbyist, this sucks so much. With PCB manufacturing reliable enough for high speed signalling being affordable and hackerspaces with soldering ovens in every major cities (and there was some startup - in NYC I believe - that you could give Eagle files and a product order list and they would buy you the components at Digikey and manufacture the board for you... anyone remember their name?!), it really really sucks that all the interesting stuff is hidden beyond such obscure walls.
You won't even find Intel Thunderbolt datasheets on obscure Chinese sites. Wtf? And then Intel complains about why people aren't adopting it?
> (and there was some startup - in NYC I believe - that you could give Eagle files and a product order list and they would buy you the components at Digikey and manufacture the board for you... anyone remember their name?!)
Are you thinking of MacroFab (https://macrofab.com/) located in Houston? I believe they have been featured here before.
Are you thinking of MacroFab (https://macrofab.com/) located in Houston? I believe they have been featured here before.
The unlisted AD parts are not ones that you'd be likely to use as a hobbyist. Everything that you're likely to know how to use is public. I wish I could be more specific.
Was more of a general rant, sorry if it came across personal :/
Do those unlisted parts constitute the majority of Analog Devices products?
> and there was some startup - in NYC I believe - that you could give Eagle files and a product order list and they would buy you the components at Digikey and manufacture the board for you... anyone remember their name?!
I don't know about that specific startup, but there are tons of firms in China which will manufacture and assemble PCBs for you. Most of the big hobbyist firms, like JLCPCB, Elecrow, and PCBWay, offer some form of PCBA service. JLCPCB in particular is closely integrated with LCSC, and will source parts directly from them.
I don't know about that specific startup, but there are tons of firms in China which will manufacture and assemble PCBs for you. Most of the big hobbyist firms, like JLCPCB, Elecrow, and PCBWay, offer some form of PCBA service. JLCPCB in particular is closely integrated with LCSC, and will source parts directly from them.
JLC/LCSC isn't exactly aiming to be a hobbyist firm, they have over $30M USD from Sequoia China and other VCs.
Whether they're aiming to or not, they are very hobbyist-friendly and popular.
I believe you are thinking of PCB:NG
> Here's a microcontroller: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/maxim-integrated/M...
Not a microcontroller.
Not a microcontroller.
You're right of course, I opened a bunch of tabs with random components and got confused. It's actually an "RS-485/RS-422 Transceiver".
They focus on slightly different markets. Analog devices produces passives and semiconductors as well as processors and ASICs targeted at data acquisition and digital signal processing as well as power electronics. Maxim tends to produce special purpose devices and processors that are analog front ends with some minor forays into the other areas.
There is overlap, but the portfolios are complementary. It seems to be a good acquisition save the sticker price seems too high.
There is overlap, but the portfolios are complementary. It seems to be a good acquisition save the sticker price seems too high.
Analog Devices tends towards making specialty integrated circuits, often used in very demanding, high-heat, high-accuracy, high-efficiency applications. Many AD parts are analog interfaces or power-management related, and very expensive, often used in military or space applications.
Maxim tends to make a bunch of almost generic odds and ends, are middle-to-low prices, with fairly large volumes. They compete directly against Texas Instruments for a lot of interface products.
This acquisition is especially interesting in light of AD's (relatively) recent acquisition of Linear Tech, which was basically a consolidation of the high-performance low-volume integrated circuit market.
Maxim tends to make a bunch of almost generic odds and ends, are middle-to-low prices, with fairly large volumes. They compete directly against Texas Instruments for a lot of interface products.
This acquisition is especially interesting in light of AD's (relatively) recent acquisition of Linear Tech, which was basically a consolidation of the high-performance low-volume integrated circuit market.
Recent HN post about counterfeiting of Maxim Integrated DS18B20 temperature sensor
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23815839
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23815839
Chips in hardware is like programming languages and libraries in software, chips make the world turn around.
Does your hardware need power? It needs power controller and converter chips, such as a MOSFET driver, a DC-DC converter, a charge pump, a linear regulator, a voltage monitor, or a power multiplexer (if it has multiple power sources). Does it have a battery? It needs a battery charging controller, or a battery gauge. Does it need to communicate via a data interface or a cable? It needs interfacing chips, such as I2C chip, SPI chip, IIO chip, RS-232/RS-485/RS-422 chips, CANbus chipss, LVDS chips, voltage level translation chips, and I/O extending chips. Does it have USB? It may need a USB multiplexer chips to switch between different signal sources (for example, USB Type-C can be an audio port or a data port), or a USB charging controller chip. Does it need wireless communication? It needs RF front-end chips, RF amplifier chips, RF frequency synthesizers, and SoCs for Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, GPS, etc. Does it need data acquisition capabilities? It needs ADC chips, DAC chips, amplifier chips, and signal conditioning chips. Does it need NFC/RFID? It needs NFC and RFID chips. Does it have a screen or a LED light, like a screen backlight or a flashlight? It needs LED controller chips and power chips. Does it need any kind of software control? It needs a microcontroller. The list goes on.
And Maxim's products cover almost all of these applications.
So does Analog Devices' products, but with an emphasize on high-precision, high-performance components.
Does your hardware need power? It needs power controller and converter chips, such as a MOSFET driver, a DC-DC converter, a charge pump, a linear regulator, a voltage monitor, or a power multiplexer (if it has multiple power sources). Does it have a battery? It needs a battery charging controller, or a battery gauge. Does it need to communicate via a data interface or a cable? It needs interfacing chips, such as I2C chip, SPI chip, IIO chip, RS-232/RS-485/RS-422 chips, CANbus chipss, LVDS chips, voltage level translation chips, and I/O extending chips. Does it have USB? It may need a USB multiplexer chips to switch between different signal sources (for example, USB Type-C can be an audio port or a data port), or a USB charging controller chip. Does it need wireless communication? It needs RF front-end chips, RF amplifier chips, RF frequency synthesizers, and SoCs for Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, GPS, etc. Does it need data acquisition capabilities? It needs ADC chips, DAC chips, amplifier chips, and signal conditioning chips. Does it need NFC/RFID? It needs NFC and RFID chips. Does it have a screen or a LED light, like a screen backlight or a flashlight? It needs LED controller chips and power chips. Does it need any kind of software control? It needs a microcontroller. The list goes on.
And Maxim's products cover almost all of these applications.
So does Analog Devices' products, but with an emphasize on high-precision, high-performance components.
AD sells chips at quite a premium.. Really hoping they don't drive up Maxim prices.
They actually drove down prices on some LTC SKUs, and there's the 800-pound gorilla that is TI to contend with, so I think pricing will be fine through this merger.
(The caveat to the above is that LTC pricing was previously absurd.)
(The caveat to the above is that LTC pricing was previously absurd.)
Not good. If you want high performance analog now there are basically two big players: ADI and TI. On Semi has a bit.
I guess inevitable. The high-performance business is getting smaller in volume and consolidation allows prices to go up.
I guess inevitable. The high-performance business is getting smaller in volume and consolidation allows prices to go up.
Maxim always was an interesting company. They started out iirc with the lowly MAX232, an all-in-one single supply level converter for RS232 applications, then went on to crank out one neat package after another. Good to see such innovation deliver a payday of this magnitude, and Analog Devices is another top of the line company so for once I'm not afraid that the acquired company will be mismanaged or the product lines killed.
AD got Linear and Hittite. Now Maxim.
Who does that leave for high performance ADC/DACs? Texas Instruments. Microchip has a limited selection. That's about it.
Lovely.
Who does that leave for high performance ADC/DACs? Texas Instruments. Microchip has a limited selection. That's about it.
Lovely.
Back in the early/mid 2000's I used to basis trade LLTC against MXIM and now and then ADI. Always thought TI would be the buyer of LLTC or MXIM.
Wait, but this morning the speculation was $17Bi
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/chip-maker-analog-poised-t...
Crazy values nonetheless
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/chip-maker-analog-poised-t...
Crazy values nonetheless
A prayer: please bring back the MAX038. That chip was discontinued ages ago and never replaced, although it would still be handy today in places where DDS or PLL are too noisy and/or complicated.
How many do you need? I might have a handful.
Thanks for the offer. I don't need them actually, although if they became mass produced again, their availability at decent prices (now they're way overpriced as every rare chip) could spark some ideas.
I don't understand why they never replaced them; the glorious MC1648 itself was upgraded as MC12148 and MC100EL1648.
I don't understand why they never replaced them; the glorious MC1648 itself was upgraded as MC12148 and MC100EL1648.
Well, even a cheap 8-bit MCU can do pretty much everything they did in firmware using DDS, so I'm guessing that had a lot to do with it.
Joke aside, AD is probably one of the most profitable companies with unprecedented monopoly on analog components and circuits business. Last week somebody mentioned about Visa and Mastercard duopoly in HN, but with this Maxim acquisition, AD is now the Visa and Mastercard combined while TI is the American Express.
To see how profitable AD is please check this article on the AD's 3rd generation transceiver chip and if you are not reading it, basically it's more profitable than drug [1]!
I am using every single versions of this AD's transceiver chip for my work, now it is in the latest 6th gen. Suffice to say if you're building 5G transceiver you will need AD's 5th gen transceiver. It's probably not an exxaggeration to say that ITU radio/wireless cellular standards' bandwidth actually following the AD's transceiver chips generations since 5G system can be built by the 5th gen chip but not the 4th gen chip (it's for 4G). The closest competitors are transceivers from LT (already acquired by AD) and the Lime Microsystems from Cambridge, UK.
[1]https://zeptobars.com/en/read/AD9361-SDR-Analog-Devices-DAC-...