CNC Fabric Cutting(neufeld.newton.ks.us)
neufeld.newton.ks.us
CNC Fabric Cutting
http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=1827
58 comments
I can think of only one other CNC-themed pop video, and that requires thinking of string-trio Rammstein covers as pop.
Interesting. Author describes a few methods for cutting fabric on a hypothetical fabric CNC. Lasers are out because of the impact to the material, so they investigate a few cutting options:
Blade - Cuts well, but drags material
Roller - Cuts well, but needs heavy downforce and overcuts the fabric border
Scissors - A mechanical nightmare
The author suggests a reciprocating blade might solve the issue, but introduces other complexities (it destroys the material underneath.
A reciprocating blade seems like a much more complex solution than trying to solve a fabric rigidity issue or heaviness issue from a rolling blade. Like, if you are already considering a sacrificial material, why not sandwich the fabric between two rigid, high friction materials, and have the knife cut through all three?
I think about this a lot, as the partner does a lot of sewing, and a significant amount of time is spent on cutting pattern pieces. It seems like such a solvable problem, but also, such a challenging problem.
Blade - Cuts well, but drags material
Roller - Cuts well, but needs heavy downforce and overcuts the fabric border
Scissors - A mechanical nightmare
The author suggests a reciprocating blade might solve the issue, but introduces other complexities (it destroys the material underneath.
A reciprocating blade seems like a much more complex solution than trying to solve a fabric rigidity issue or heaviness issue from a rolling blade. Like, if you are already considering a sacrificial material, why not sandwich the fabric between two rigid, high friction materials, and have the knife cut through all three?
I think about this a lot, as the partner does a lot of sewing, and a significant amount of time is spent on cutting pattern pieces. It seems like such a solvable problem, but also, such a challenging problem.
If my memory can be trusted, then it can be done with a high-pressure water jet. As a kid, my class took a field trip to a factory that did this. I remember being fascinated by the idea that water could cut.
EDIT: No need to trust my memory:
https://wardjet.com/waterjets/water-only
https://textilelearner.blogspot.com/2015/07/fabric-cutting-b...
---
Incidentally, this was a long time ago (~1980?), and another thing we saw was a computer whose operator explained that to boot it up, they had to go through a sequence involving toggle switches on the front panel. Someone commented that it sounds impossible, and the operator said it gets easy after a while.
They also had some stations for design work with basically a drafting table and a mouse-like device with a ~12 key keypad on it and I think a glass with a reticle, presumably for aligning with points on a blueprint or something like that.
EDIT: No need to trust my memory:
https://wardjet.com/waterjets/water-only
https://textilelearner.blogspot.com/2015/07/fabric-cutting-b...
---
Incidentally, this was a long time ago (~1980?), and another thing we saw was a computer whose operator explained that to boot it up, they had to go through a sequence involving toggle switches on the front panel. Someone commented that it sounds impossible, and the operator said it gets easy after a while.
They also had some stations for design work with basically a drafting table and a mouse-like device with a ~12 key keypad on it and I think a glass with a reticle, presumably for aligning with points on a blueprint or something like that.
We had a waterjet at the granite shop we worked at for cutting stone slabs. Even after years of working there, I'd still just sit and stare at it sometimes fascinated.
That thing was always a hassle with maintenance though and sometimes things on the intensifier would explode....
Programming it was pretty cool. Different than the routers I programmed. We had a camera system rigged up that could take photos of the slab. The cad files were then loaded in and dropped and arranged on the stone.
The guy that did it at our shop was really good at matching everything. Connecting the veins for pieces that needed to be joined or mitered.
That thing was always a hassle with maintenance though and sometimes things on the intensifier would explode....
Programming it was pretty cool. Different than the routers I programmed. We had a camera system rigged up that could take photos of the slab. The cad files were then loaded in and dropped and arranged on the stone.
The guy that did it at our shop was really good at matching everything. Connecting the veins for pieces that needed to be joined or mitered.
A friend operates one at a granite shop. They use a software that maps the surface and then uploads it to a webapp that lets the customer choose the pattern layout.
One thing I found interesting about water jets is that you absolutely do not want to be cut by one. The force is strong enough that it can inject the abrasive garnet into your bloodstream. The machine I actually came with instructional tags to pin to the shirt of anyone headed to the ER.
One thing I found interesting about water jets is that you absolutely do not want to be cut by one. The force is strong enough that it can inject the abrasive garnet into your bloodstream. The machine I actually came with instructional tags to pin to the shirt of anyone headed to the ER.
>A friend operates one at a granite shop. They use a software that maps the surface and then uploads it to a webapp that lets the customer choose the pattern layout.
That would have been pretty cool. One of the biggest holdups to our schedule used to be waiting for customers to confirm layouts before cutting. They always come into the shop to verify.
We used old unsupported software called stonecam from Park Industries. Only one guy still working there had any experience with the software. We ended up having to recalibrate the camera on the machine while I was there. It involved manually configuring variables in text files with variable names written in a mix of German and English. Apparently the software was written by one German guy who vanished some time ago who never told anyone else how it all worked completely.
They'd switched to officially supporting AlphaCam a while ago. We had licenses for our two routers for alpha cam but they were ten grand a piece and the boss was holding out as long as possible before switching the waterjet over.
>The force is strong enough that it can inject the abrasive garnet into your bloodstream
Oh wow had no idea about that. I figured you absolutely did not want to get your body into the flow, but never heard that.
That would have been pretty cool. One of the biggest holdups to our schedule used to be waiting for customers to confirm layouts before cutting. They always come into the shop to verify.
We used old unsupported software called stonecam from Park Industries. Only one guy still working there had any experience with the software. We ended up having to recalibrate the camera on the machine while I was there. It involved manually configuring variables in text files with variable names written in a mix of German and English. Apparently the software was written by one German guy who vanished some time ago who never told anyone else how it all worked completely.
They'd switched to officially supporting AlphaCam a while ago. We had licenses for our two routers for alpha cam but they were ten grand a piece and the boss was holding out as long as possible before switching the waterjet over.
>The force is strong enough that it can inject the abrasive garnet into your bloodstream
Oh wow had no idea about that. I figured you absolutely did not want to get your body into the flow, but never heard that.
>I remember being fascinated by the idea that water could cut.
It doesn't. Water is a really poor cutting agent. The water is just used to propel abrasive garnet at high pressures. If there was a cheaper and better way to move the garnet then someone would have already done so without water.
It doesn't. Water is a really poor cutting agent. The water is just used to propel abrasive garnet at high pressures. If there was a cheaper and better way to move the garnet then someone would have already done so without water.
Not entirely accurate. Certainly for metals, stone, and other hard materials the entrained abrasive is doing the cutting, but water-only waterjet cutting is used for a lot of things: foams, rubbers, plastics, fibrous materials, food, sensitive items like diapers and medical materials (because the pressurized water is inherently sterilized, and there's no blade to gum up and hold bacteria).
And what's really going to bake your noodle is there is an additive called...wait for it...SUPER-WATER that helps maintain stream coherence out of a high-pressure waterjet nozzle, allowing even more effective water-only cutting.
And what's really going to bake your noodle is there is an additive called...wait for it...SUPER-WATER that helps maintain stream coherence out of a high-pressure waterjet nozzle, allowing even more effective water-only cutting.
A person who worked on early PDPs for UNIX said he had memorized the toggle switches positions to enter the bootloader.
"Toggle these programs in at location 10000", literally there would be toggles to enter the machine location 10000 and the series of instructions that would be pasted into it.
"Toggle these programs in at location 10000", literally there would be toggles to enter the machine location 10000 and the series of instructions that would be pasted into it.
Might be interesting to look at how the industrial machines do it: https://www.cticutting.com/tools/
I believe the hobby machines just use rotary cutters but the industrial space is more interesting: - vibratory blade - ultrasonic blade - heated (sealing) blade
BTW laser cutting (non-synthetic) fabric is totally possible and is used in industry, the "hobby" type laser cutters do need some tweaking to get good results: https://www.troteclaser.com/en-gb/knowledge/tips-for-laser-u... Leather does produce a smell that may raise objections ;)
I believe the hobby machines just use rotary cutters but the industrial space is more interesting: - vibratory blade - ultrasonic blade - heated (sealing) blade
BTW laser cutting (non-synthetic) fabric is totally possible and is used in industry, the "hobby" type laser cutters do need some tweaking to get good results: https://www.troteclaser.com/en-gb/knowledge/tips-for-laser-u... Leather does produce a smell that may raise objections ;)
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The article does not load for me (database error) but I have cut several types of fabric successfully with a laser. What is the impact to the material? I found it works well for natural fabrics but polyester and nylon can be a bit fiddly to get the settings right. Normally too high power will melt the edge a bit, and you can't cut several layers at once as they will stick together but otherwise it does work ok. Oh, and some wispy fabrics (which are likely plastic based) have a tendency to waft away if the extraction is too strong.
Ditto, laser-cut fabric is amazing. You can get fine detailed slashes and swirls that make for incredible effects, that would be incredibly painstaking to do by hand.
Doesn't it discolor the edges of the fabric?
I suppose if you were cutting white cotton it may? But synthetics generally just.... vanish. It's like cutting with a hot knife but there's no blade.
I can't read the article, because the blog is now down, but it seems somewhat strange to talk about a hypothetical fabric CNC when such machines are readily available and used in industry, including these options and more, as handy modules that you can use for cutting all kinds of fabrics: https://www.zund.com/en/cutting-systems/modules-and-tools
Those machines are probably a bit expensive for private use, but theoretically this seems like it is a solved problem.
Those machines are probably a bit expensive for private use, but theoretically this seems like it is a solved problem.
The idea was that a home user cannot afford an industrial machine.
You should still learn from the industrial solutions.
Industrial users have real problems that they are highly incentivized to solve. If they solve it a different way from you, you should ask "Why?" and "Can I adapt their solution?".
Industrial users have real problems that they are highly incentivized to solve. If they solve it a different way from you, you should ask "Why?" and "Can I adapt their solution?".
I can't get to the site either, but there are digital die-cutting machines which use a vacuum bed and very precisely controlled knives to cut all kinds of thin flat materials, including textiles and leather. These machines are not cheap, but they are super useful for softgoods, fashion, packaging, etc.
https://www.zund.com/en
How would a vacuum bed work on porous cloth? I guess there would be some kinds of fabric that just wouldn't work.
There’s a continuous flow of air through a permeable felt mat. The fabric (or cardboard, or plastic or whatever) doesn’t get stuck like with a suction cup, it’s more like how a vacuum cleaner will pull fabric and it’s difficult to remove. The machine makes a lot of noise when it’s running, due to this suction.
A sacrificial layer of plastic film above would probably work.
Can't access the page, but one solution I would explore (and suspect has already been explored in depth) would be use of a stiffening treatment (heavy starching) rather than sacrificial sandwich materials. Many fabrics can be starched to be rigid enough to cut with a blade without dragging being a significant issue, and the starch can then be simply washed out.
There was a post in here a while ago on this, I think it was this guys company: https://www.google.com/amp/s/singularityhub.com/2017/02/03/t... . Not sure if it ever went anywhere.
Doesn't look like it, his company website doesn't appear to have been updated since the initial press release:
https://www.sewbo.com/
https://www.sewbo.com/
[deleted]
Site is down, so I'm winging this comment until I can check again later or find an archive, but I wanted to note that my company has cut all kinds of fabric (and also food!) using a "water-only" (ie, no entrained abrasive) method with an ultra-high-pressure CNC waterjet.
Depending on the material and tolerances, you can cut through significant stacks simultaneously to save time, and with the correct settings and setup you get very little splashback or other wetting.
Since the 60,000+ PSI stream is coming out of the nozzle at something like mach 2, the water is travelling too fast to make the edge wet!
Depending on the material and tolerances, you can cut through significant stacks simultaneously to save time, and with the correct settings and setup you get very little splashback or other wetting.
Since the 60,000+ PSI stream is coming out of the nozzle at something like mach 2, the water is travelling too fast to make the edge wet!
This is really interesting since waterjet often doesn't work well for non-rigid materials. Do you have to add a backer to keep the fabric stiff/in place or are you able to just rely on the thickness of a stack to keep it properly placed and non-moving?
For floppy materials we use a few approaches: first, instead of putting the material on the standard "metal slat" bed, we use a product called Rhino Board, which is essentially a whole bunch of plastic straws glued together into a rigid mat. It provides more granular support. For materials still needing more support, we put a sacrificial board (either OSB or plastic sheeting) underneath. And for materials that we can't glue down, or are even more problematic, we also put a sacrificial sheet on top.
Interesting! So you have a site I can see?
A competitor to me (offering laser services) has started offering water-cut plywood, which boggled my mind - I would have expected that to be a terrible idea!
A competitor to me (offering laser services) has started offering water-cut plywood, which boggled my mind - I would have expected that to be a terrible idea!
Sure - we're a startup (MODICA Microindustries) working on a related problem (modular manufacturing equipment), and we spun up a subsidiary (Harbor Island Waterjet) offering waterjet cutting services as a job shop since we had excess capacity on our three machines.
There are pros and cons to waterjet cutting but for what it's worth, it can cut virtually anything. There are a lot of techniques for reducing splashback and other wetting/soiling from the tank. We cut wood fairly often. Some people like how laser singes the edges better, but to each their own!
There are pros and cons to waterjet cutting but for what it's worth, it can cut virtually anything. There are a lot of techniques for reducing splashback and other wetting/soiling from the tank. We cut wood fairly often. Some people like how laser singes the edges better, but to each their own!
Hey, thanks for getting back to me - I realised this morning I should've just checked your profile, which I did!
I'm very impressed with what you're doing - particularly as I actually had a similar idea a couple of years back, rooted in a plan to perhaps move country (within EU) and so was wondering how I'd a) move my equipment and b) set up shop when there. That sort of spawned a lot of thought about modular container-based systems, and how I'd fit various sizes and types of CNC machines in them. Then I wondered about the use of on-site CNC services for large construction developments - I could imagine the benefit of having a few accurate machining shops in containers that can quickly turn around finished interior elements straight from site measurements, etc.
As we know though, an idea's worth precisely nowt if unrealised, so I'm super-glad to see that someone has!
Best of luck to you!
I'm very impressed with what you're doing - particularly as I actually had a similar idea a couple of years back, rooted in a plan to perhaps move country (within EU) and so was wondering how I'd a) move my equipment and b) set up shop when there. That sort of spawned a lot of thought about modular container-based systems, and how I'd fit various sizes and types of CNC machines in them. Then I wondered about the use of on-site CNC services for large construction developments - I could imagine the benefit of having a few accurate machining shops in containers that can quickly turn around finished interior elements straight from site measurements, etc.
As we know though, an idea's worth precisely nowt if unrealised, so I'm super-glad to see that someone has!
Best of luck to you!
Here's a datasheet for an industrial fabric cutter:
http://www.ruk-tech.com/uploads/137f9456.pdf
http://www.ruk-tech.com/uploads/137f9456.pdf
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Site is down, but from the cache link posted, this looks like an exploration into DIY CNC fabric cutting, recognizing that higher volume/higher price alternatives already exist in the market.
Basic CNC control seems to mostly be a solved problem these days, there are lots of options that product reasonably good precision using stepper motors, lead screws, and some open-source software.
The challenge for CNC cutting fabric for low cost/low volume applications seems to revolve around what to use to make the actual cut. In this segment, there does not appear to be a clear option for something that works reliably, without a lot of material waste, and within the budget of a bespoke garment producer.
Basic CNC control seems to mostly be a solved problem these days, there are lots of options that product reasonably good precision using stepper motors, lead screws, and some open-source software.
The challenge for CNC cutting fabric for low cost/low volume applications seems to revolve around what to use to make the actual cut. In this segment, there does not appear to be a clear option for something that works reliably, without a lot of material waste, and within the budget of a bespoke garment producer.
If you take a Backstage Magic Tour at Walt Disney World, the costuming department has some kind of [magical] CNC fabric cutter that does a single layer of fabric quickly and cleanly, apparently cookie-cutter style. You see the design on an LCD screen, the operator places the fabric, the machine closes on the fabric, it makes quiet slapping sounds for a few seconds, and it opens revealing the perfectly cut piece.
You're not permitted to take photos of the machine. Textile cutting isn't my thing, so I don't know how it works, but I found it mildly interesting.
You're not permitted to take photos of the machine. Textile cutting isn't my thing, so I don't know how it works, but I found it mildly interesting.
Related question: any good recommendations for garment/fabric specific CAD software out there?
As purely a passing interest I recall trying to find a platform years ago but being disappointed with what I found.
I've always wanted to design the 'perfect' (for me) laptop bag but found the task daunting. This is coming from someone whose worked with Lasers/CNC Mills/CNC Routers/3D Printers/traditional mechanical & electrical CAD enough to be comfortable with the concepts of computer aided design and machine operation.
As purely a passing interest I recall trying to find a platform years ago but being disappointed with what I found.
I've always wanted to design the 'perfect' (for me) laptop bag but found the task daunting. This is coming from someone whose worked with Lasers/CNC Mills/CNC Routers/3D Printers/traditional mechanical & electrical CAD enough to be comfortable with the concepts of computer aided design and machine operation.
Unfortunately most of the standard stuff (Optitex, Gerber) is industrial software with "contact us" pricing.
What I've found works best for me is:
- Seamly2D (https://seamly.net/) and Valentina (https://gitlab.com/smart-pattern/valentina) - these are two forks of an open-source project. They do pretty much everything I want them to do.
- Clo3D: https://www.clo3d.com/ - horrendously expensive subscription software ($50/month or $450/yr) but there are.. Uh... Less legal options available online. My favourite aspect of this particular software is that it lets you view the constructed object (usually a garment) in 3D and run physics simulations on it.
I've tried Optitex and Gerber as well but despite being the standard in industry, I don't find them to be great pieces of software. Of the two, Optitex is much better than Gerber but both are really hard to use.
I think Clo3D is probably the most approachable option but it does cost. Seamly2D/Valentina have a steeper learning curve than Clo3D but they're also much more capable when it comes to design and in particular, parametric design.
What I've found works best for me is:
- Seamly2D (https://seamly.net/) and Valentina (https://gitlab.com/smart-pattern/valentina) - these are two forks of an open-source project. They do pretty much everything I want them to do.
- Clo3D: https://www.clo3d.com/ - horrendously expensive subscription software ($50/month or $450/yr) but there are.. Uh... Less legal options available online. My favourite aspect of this particular software is that it lets you view the constructed object (usually a garment) in 3D and run physics simulations on it.
I've tried Optitex and Gerber as well but despite being the standard in industry, I don't find them to be great pieces of software. Of the two, Optitex is much better than Gerber but both are really hard to use.
I think Clo3D is probably the most approachable option but it does cost. Seamly2D/Valentina have a steeper learning curve than Clo3D but they're also much more capable when it comes to design and in particular, parametric design.
Okay, I'll bite. This is an interesting idea, but "Why?"
The hypothetical use case "Made to measure suits for women" is one that a human with scissors does just fine. I suspect a single person with scissors can do this in less than an hour. The tailoring and sewing is FAR more time consuming.
The point of CNC is either to 1) enable repeatable volume or 2) enable something that couldn't be done before. This falls into neither category.
The hypothetical use case "Made to measure suits for women" is one that a human with scissors does just fine. I suspect a single person with scissors can do this in less than an hour. The tailoring and sewing is FAR more time consuming.
The point of CNC is either to 1) enable repeatable volume or 2) enable something that couldn't be done before. This falls into neither category.
As a hobbyist, once I have a pattern, cutting out the fabric is by far the most tedious aspect of making a garment. It's just lots of precise handwork. Typically, when I'm making something, it's ~80% cutting, 20% sewing.
By removing that cutting, I'd cut 3h of work down to ~40 minutes.
By removing that cutting, I'd cut 3h of work down to ~40 minutes.
The variability of clothing isn't great. You can buy 4 pairs of the same pants and they'll all fit differently. When you're ordering online this is even worse as you can't try before you buy.
Having consistent fabric pieces would go a long way to reducing that variability.
Having consistent fabric pieces would go a long way to reducing that variability.
For industry it already exists, for hobbyists it's a neat challenge that can remove a remove a boring part and for small scale companies it lets more people be on sewing machines instead of pattern cutting.
> ...enable something that couldn't be done before.
They want to take critical measurements and automagically generate the pattern for the suit.
Kind of like the custom bra manufacturer that was making the rounds a while back I suppose.
They want to take critical measurements and automagically generate the pattern for the suit.
Kind of like the custom bra manufacturer that was making the rounds a while back I suppose.
Erm ... she did a post mortem on that bra manufacturer.
Something like "cutting the fabric" didn't even rank on why the business failed.
Something like "cutting the fabric" didn't even rank on why the business failed.
I actually went down the laser route but I'm mostly interested in synthetic fabrics. To address the TFA's concerns:
- You don't need a whole lot of power for the kinds of synthetic fabrics you'd want to wear. I use a 20W laser from AliExpress that outputs ~7.5W of actual energy.
- Safety is definitely a big concern. The biggest problem is that a lot of synthetic fabrics produce lethally toxic gases when cut with a laser. However if you build an enclosure, you can filter the exhaust to ensure that it's safe.
- Don't know why liability is a problem, not American.
- It won't scorch most synthetic fabrics, it will melt them. However this is often a good thing, as it seals the edges so that they won't fray.
They also have a huge advantage: they're cheap and easy. My 1000x1000mm laser cutter cost me ~$120 from AliExpress. Just had to screw it together and it worked out of the box.
At the very least, you can use it to cut out paper patterns for you or put cut marks onto the fabric.
- You don't need a whole lot of power for the kinds of synthetic fabrics you'd want to wear. I use a 20W laser from AliExpress that outputs ~7.5W of actual energy.
- Safety is definitely a big concern. The biggest problem is that a lot of synthetic fabrics produce lethally toxic gases when cut with a laser. However if you build an enclosure, you can filter the exhaust to ensure that it's safe.
- Don't know why liability is a problem, not American.
- It won't scorch most synthetic fabrics, it will melt them. However this is often a good thing, as it seals the edges so that they won't fray.
They also have a huge advantage: they're cheap and easy. My 1000x1000mm laser cutter cost me ~$120 from AliExpress. Just had to screw it together and it worked out of the box.
At the very least, you can use it to cut out paper patterns for you or put cut marks onto the fabric.
What model of laser cutter do you have? $120 is very cheap - is it any good?
It's AliExpress, they typically don't have model numbers.
It's nothing life changing but it does what it says it does.
It doesn't need to be expensive for a job like this. It's just:
- An Aluminium profile frame
- Stepper + belt driven axes
- A laser module
- Probably <$10 worth of control electronics (an Arduino and some cheap stepper drivers)
- A cheap DC power supply
I'm pretty sure the most expensive part is the laser module but those go for ~$30-40 on their own.
It's nothing life changing but it does what it says it does.
It doesn't need to be expensive for a job like this. It's just:
- An Aluminium profile frame
- Stepper + belt driven axes
- A laser module
- Probably <$10 worth of control electronics (an Arduino and some cheap stepper drivers)
- A cheap DC power supply
I'm pretty sure the most expensive part is the laser module but those go for ~$30-40 on their own.
I'm really confused. What this person is looking for is a "oscillating tangential knife". Lots of hobby CNC machine manufacturers offer it as an option. A medium sized CNC machine + knife will probably cost around $5k. Smaller machines are cheaper but you get less value per dollar.
I can't read about CNC's without whistling the tune.