Four submerged villages found in Noordoostpolder(nltimes.nl)
nltimes.nl
Four submerged villages found in Noordoostpolder
https://nltimes.nl/2020/10/26/four-submerged-villages-found-noordoostpolder
35 comments
What sorts of things might one do prior to submerging that would be interesting/useful to explorers who came later?
Distributing several modern equivalents of the Rosetta Stone comes to mind. E.g. build one into the spire of a highrise.
But I'd bet that in Manhattan's case, it would take a really long time for the tallest buildings to become invisible, even if they collapse.
Distributing several modern equivalents of the Rosetta Stone comes to mind. E.g. build one into the spire of a highrise.
But I'd bet that in Manhattan's case, it would take a really long time for the tallest buildings to become invisible, even if they collapse.
I would have thought that putting anything you want found at a low level or in the basement was a safer bet.
Probably true. My thinking was that maybe there is a really deep layer of coral and detritus on the submerged streets, so a high monument built to somewhat withstand falling hundreds of feet in a building collapse would end up in a shallower layer and be found more easily.
You'd probably want more than one strategy for sending a message to the future. The historic plans for nuclear waste repositories can be interesting in that regard.
You'd probably want more than one strategy for sending a message to the future. The historic plans for nuclear waste repositories can be interesting in that regard.
Sea level rise will not erase Manhattan. Only some significant geological event (or extra-terrestrial impact) could conceivably erase Manhattan to the degree that it would not be easily discoverable (or partially visible) to future generations.
Documenting and distributing one's history is not especially difficult to do with today's technology. The easiest solution I can think of would be to scatter mineral etched documentation into orbit around the planet, along with some very long lasting vertical markers on the land.
But really, one most ask what the point of documenting anything is if all humanity is expected to be eliminated. It is likely that our waste will document our existence more accurately that our intentional efforts, and the later (more advanced) visitors will recognize our primitive collective mentality, choices, and demise.
Documenting and distributing one's history is not especially difficult to do with today's technology. The easiest solution I can think of would be to scatter mineral etched documentation into orbit around the planet, along with some very long lasting vertical markers on the land.
But really, one most ask what the point of documenting anything is if all humanity is expected to be eliminated. It is likely that our waste will document our existence more accurately that our intentional efforts, and the later (more advanced) visitors will recognize our primitive collective mentality, choices, and demise.
I'm interested to know how long high-rise building are expected to stay upright when they're standing in ankle deep water.
(No political reason, just interested)
(No political reason, just interested)
While not high rises, Venice IT provides a glimpse at how well buildings do submerged in ankle deep water.
That said many steel + cladding high rises built on silt rely on deeply buried steel pilons that reach below the water line and into granite, so there is that.
That said many steel + cladding high rises built on silt rely on deeply buried steel pilons that reach below the water line and into granite, so there is that.
[deleted]
Doggerland.
Messinian Salinity Crisis.
> Maritime archaeologist Yftinus van Popta of the University of Groningen
A name that could've come straight out of a Discworld novel, wonderful!
A name that could've come straight out of a Discworld novel, wonderful!
There seem to be less than 5 people in The Netherlands with that first name.
It appears to be a classic name from Friesland/Groningen, the very north (or north east rather) of The Netherlands.
> A name that could've come straight out of a Discworld novel
You'll be pleased to know that there's a beautiful old house on the Amsterdam canals with the inscription on the front quanti canicula ille in fenestra.
You'll be pleased to know that there's a beautiful old house on the Amsterdam canals with the inscription on the front quanti canicula ille in fenestra.
Wait, how did they determine names of these villages if nobody knew of their existence before? (at least that's what the article seems to sugges)
They appear to have been named after the modern villages currently on or near their locations
The existence of the villages was known; their location wasn’t. The modern villages were named after the medieval ones, but aren’t necessarily in the same location.
This research combined sources to find locations with above-average levels of bricks, pottery, and animal bones to locate likely locations of the villages (thought to be impossible thus far as the sea has dispersed all remains and ship wrecks add noise), and combined that with literature search to put names on each of them.
This research combined sources to find locations with above-average levels of bricks, pottery, and animal bones to locate likely locations of the villages (thought to be impossible thus far as the sea has dispersed all remains and ship wrecks add noise), and combined that with literature search to put names on each of them.
> The existence of the villages was known; their location wasn’t. The modern villages were named after the medieval ones, but aren’t necessarily in the same location.
How does that happen, though? What had happened that they had no records of but they have records of the names of the villages it rendered inaccessible?
How does that happen, though? What had happened that they had no records of but they have records of the names of the villages it rendered inaccessible?
If you have records that <name> of <village> married <name> of <other village> on <date>, the record is of a marriage, but you can infer the existence of two villages, a church, and an indication that the date was considered suitable for a wedding in that area at that time.
All it takes is a diary of somebody making a voyage through these villages, and that surviving for centuries for them to be ‘known’ without, necessarily, having a good idea about where they were located (could be something like “two days east of x”, where the precise location of x isn’t known, ‘east’ is anything from north-east to south-east, and travel speed has to be guessed)
Alternatively, a tax record may just list names of villages. All you would know then is that they fell under a certain jurisdiction, whose borders may not have been clear even then.
Alternatively, a tax record may just list names of villages. All you would know then is that they fell under a certain jurisdiction, whose borders may not have been clear even then.
Something interesting happens to the place I live in and it’s reached Hackernews!
How does living underwater affects your daily life?
It’s fine I suppose. My neighbor keeps playing the clarinet (and it sounds awfully loud underwater) and my other neighbor lives under a literal rock.
Given Dutch rains, it almost always feels like living under water.
You say that but we've had a 3-4 month drought two years ago.
So it appears sea level rise is nothing new? Who would have thought.
The sea levels have been rising for thousands of years, since the last ice age. You would be able to walk to the UK from the EU.
The sea levels have been rising for thousands of years, since the last ice age. You would be able to walk to the UK from the EU.
Nowhere does the article mention anything about sea levels, so maybe don't jump to those conclusions. The land itself can also rise or sink, and that is more likely to be the case when it comes to the history of this region. The villages in the Netherlands (and northern Germany, and Denmark) always were already perilously close to being below sea level to begin with. We're talking about a flat former river delta with extremely wet soil. Remove water from it for agricultural activities through drains and pumps and the land sinks. That is why the villages existed on artificial mounds to protect them from floodwaters (known as a "terp"). So villages like these were more likely to be abandoned due to agricultural activities making the land sink so much that they flooded all the time, which would make the villages themselves not worth living in.
Tangent: The website linked in your profile suggests that you're Dutch like me. If so, honest question: did they not mention this in your high school history classes? I grew up in Friesland and it would be interesting if that turned out to be more like a part of the "regional" than the "national" history curriculum.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terp
Tangent: The website linked in your profile suggests that you're Dutch like me. If so, honest question: did they not mention this in your high school history classes? I grew up in Friesland and it would be interesting if that turned out to be more like a part of the "regional" than the "national" history curriculum.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terp
Oh, they sure did mention the sea level rise since the ice age, the suspected habitats in Doggerland ( 050, Praedinius ).
And the Romans, them too.
And the Romans, them too.
That's relevant information, but answering a different question than I asked.
(Also, the Romans would not be able to distinguish sea levels rising from land sinking)
(Also, the Romans would not be able to distinguish sea levels rising from land sinking)
Sure about that? Their long aquaducts suggests they might have.
I'm from The Netherlands. In geography class (some 25 years ago) I learned there is a geographical border going from approx south west Netherlands to north east Netherlands. Imagine from Zeeland to Nijmegen to Groningen, approx. Above that border, everything gets lower. Under that border, everything goes higher. I don't remember the cause of it. I remember rivers bringing a lot of mud with them over time but not sure if related.
Also Zuiderzee (after Afsluitdijk remade into IJsselmeer) had floods which is why Afsluitdijk as part of the Zuiderzeewerken was build in the first place. Also look up Mr. Cornelis Lely, the architect if interested.
The other massive anti flood system is called Deltawerken, in Zeeland and Zuid-Holland due to the Watersnoodramp 1953.
Also Zuiderzee (after Afsluitdijk remade into IJsselmeer) had floods which is why Afsluitdijk as part of the Zuiderzeewerken was build in the first place. Also look up Mr. Cornelis Lely, the architect if interested.
The other massive anti flood system is called Deltawerken, in Zeeland and Zuid-Holland due to the Watersnoodramp 1953.
That said, I am always interested in "sunken" civilizations. Whether they are submerged in the jungle (such as the Inca and Olmec), under sand such as the Egyptian, or under the seas (Norse, Greek, Arabian). In many ways it seems that this will inevitably Manhattan's fate as well.
What sorts of things might one do prior to submerging that would be interesting/useful to explorers who came later?