Is Anyone Else Just Done?
57 comments
I'm done too after 20 years. I already moved on. First by still doing web and it stuff but for an non-profit. That meant cutting my revenues by 2. I deliberately chose a job in a smaller and cheaper city, so my way of life was not too much affected. As that non-profit could not afford me anymore because of Covid 19, I had time to reflect and recently decided to go further. I'm single without children (nor by choice, nor a problem, just my life as it went). It's easier. But having a spouse keeping his/her job with a regular revenue could also be quite helpful.
My new projet is to built a non-profit and seek funds to buy a large farm or a large piece of land. Preferably fields exploited for a long time through intensive exploitation (not bio, plenty of pesticides etc) e.g. some large place o heavily damaged nature. My goal is to repair the Nature within that property. Make it a natural paradise of biodiversity. The more diverse, the more resilient it becomes. Choose the right species so they'll be fine in 20, 30, 50 years from now with climate change.
This project require a team. I imagine tiny houses spread around so we can all have a private life too. But many things in common. I'd like the place to be a sort of lab, a hack-space where experiment new way of life and working. One part of the economic model will be a camping and a training center. First paying course: how to yourself a ecological tiny-house, thermically passive so no need for heating or AC. People will learn by doing so the end, there will be a new tiny house available on the property.
I still like tech. It'll just be low tech. Free software, Linux etc, so technology is an empowering tool, not a drug you are addicted to. A shop to repair and learn to repair computers, using only second-hand parts. This will be a paying course as well, for anybody interested. I imagine teenagers not that thrilled by their parents' camping idea but happy to learn and repair to build a pc.
This a long adventure. From bare fields to a forest totally bio with species that provide food, ten years. But it requires less and less work as it becomes a self-sustainable ecosystem. We'll take a part for us humans, fruits, making and selling high-quality jam, honey. Some wood but most of it need to rote on the ground. we'll also need to grow vegetables, poultry for meat and eggs, a few pigs leaving freely (well, until we catch one from time to time for meat).
I don't want a closed community. Rather a small starting team, with many people staying a week or a month for intelligent vacation in a beautiful nature and learning DIY stuff for a sustainable world. Maybe the permanent community will extend with visitors willing to join. After some time, some will want to join another project or back to the city. That's good. I think I'll meet more people whom I may befriend by attracting them in this unusual place that I do living in the city. Maybe these new friends will come only a few weekends per year. Fine. That's more cumulated time than what We achieve to spend with my friends in the city (overbusy, children, ...). And we'll have parties around a fire, drinking homemade beer, trekking around or working on some free software. Or building a solar oven to dry fruits.
Nothing ideologically radical, like: - NOT 100% vegetarian or vegan. I like meat and think that our body needs it (my opinion) but we will eat less meat than many, because we eat too much of animal proteins for a good health. Less.carbo-hydrates and more vegetables. No autarcy, we'll buy what we can't grow, sell some to neighbors and locals. - NOT a closed community. A place where many people visit, are accepted by vote if they want to stay and free to move on. Or free to go and come back. - NOT a religious place. People are free to follow any religion and be respected, as long as it doesn't impose rules onto others. My religion is atheism. - Diversity encouraged. All colors, all origins, all sexual orientations, genres. This must be 100% safe and comfortable for every body. No tasks assigned by genre. - NO TV. Movies and series on demand but reading of press and books encouraged. -
My new projet is to built a non-profit and seek funds to buy a large farm or a large piece of land. Preferably fields exploited for a long time through intensive exploitation (not bio, plenty of pesticides etc) e.g. some large place o heavily damaged nature. My goal is to repair the Nature within that property. Make it a natural paradise of biodiversity. The more diverse, the more resilient it becomes. Choose the right species so they'll be fine in 20, 30, 50 years from now with climate change.
This project require a team. I imagine tiny houses spread around so we can all have a private life too. But many things in common. I'd like the place to be a sort of lab, a hack-space where experiment new way of life and working. One part of the economic model will be a camping and a training center. First paying course: how to yourself a ecological tiny-house, thermically passive so no need for heating or AC. People will learn by doing so the end, there will be a new tiny house available on the property.
I still like tech. It'll just be low tech. Free software, Linux etc, so technology is an empowering tool, not a drug you are addicted to. A shop to repair and learn to repair computers, using only second-hand parts. This will be a paying course as well, for anybody interested. I imagine teenagers not that thrilled by their parents' camping idea but happy to learn and repair to build a pc.
This a long adventure. From bare fields to a forest totally bio with species that provide food, ten years. But it requires less and less work as it becomes a self-sustainable ecosystem. We'll take a part for us humans, fruits, making and selling high-quality jam, honey. Some wood but most of it need to rote on the ground. we'll also need to grow vegetables, poultry for meat and eggs, a few pigs leaving freely (well, until we catch one from time to time for meat).
I don't want a closed community. Rather a small starting team, with many people staying a week or a month for intelligent vacation in a beautiful nature and learning DIY stuff for a sustainable world. Maybe the permanent community will extend with visitors willing to join. After some time, some will want to join another project or back to the city. That's good. I think I'll meet more people whom I may befriend by attracting them in this unusual place that I do living in the city. Maybe these new friends will come only a few weekends per year. Fine. That's more cumulated time than what We achieve to spend with my friends in the city (overbusy, children, ...). And we'll have parties around a fire, drinking homemade beer, trekking around or working on some free software. Or building a solar oven to dry fruits.
Nothing ideologically radical, like: - NOT 100% vegetarian or vegan. I like meat and think that our body needs it (my opinion) but we will eat less meat than many, because we eat too much of animal proteins for a good health. Less.carbo-hydrates and more vegetables. No autarcy, we'll buy what we can't grow, sell some to neighbors and locals. - NOT a closed community. A place where many people visit, are accepted by vote if they want to stay and free to move on. Or free to go and come back. - NOT a religious place. People are free to follow any religion and be respected, as long as it doesn't impose rules onto others. My religion is atheism. - Diversity encouraged. All colors, all origins, all sexual orientations, genres. This must be 100% safe and comfortable for every body. No tasks assigned by genre. - NO TV. Movies and series on demand but reading of press and books encouraged. -
Is there a link to learn more about your project? I have similar dream - I want to create a small space where living space, food and healthcare is taken care of. The idea is to let people create things without having to worry about basic needs. They could write books, software, make music ...
People can take a break for a year or two and work on something they truly care about.
At least, that is my dream
People can take a break for a year or two and work on something they truly care about.
At least, that is my dream
Hi, I'm not there yet. I'm learning for now all the regulations to follow in order to build such a place and there are many ; I live in France, so regulations are rampant (the US lack regulations - my opinion as someone with a double citizenship).
There will be a collaborative website, where people can follow the project and provide feedback or help. It will be in French though. The idea is to share as much as possible, including financial details so that it can help other analogue projects to emerge.
The vision is to have strongholds of biodiversity every ten miles. Ideally, they would be interconnected by large enough corridors so that animals can move safely from one to another. That would require a mouvement, not just my project. But first things first, just sharing the very long term vision/dream.
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This is not too far off from what I'm working towards.
I'm less worried about the community aspect and more so the sustainability and open spaces. Allowing birds, native animals, and everything else we can bring to allow room to roam.
If you're going down this route and would like some input, I'd be happy to talk. We've spent the last 4+ years traveling and living in a vintage bus and van.
I'm less worried about the community aspect and more so the sustainability and open spaces. Allowing birds, native animals, and everything else we can bring to allow room to roam.
If you're going down this route and would like some input, I'd be happy to talk. We've spent the last 4+ years traveling and living in a vintage bus and van.
If you stumble(d) onto projects from which I could learn, I'd be very glad if you share them. There are many initiatives and that's good but I'm afraid of reinventing the wheel.
There is to much work ahead to repair the Earth to feel proud of finding ourselves an already found good solution.
There is to much work ahead to repair the Earth to feel proud of finding ourselves an already found good solution.
This sounds very interesting to me. I have thinking about, researching similar projects - would love to know more and contribute.
Thank you for sharing your interest for the projet: it's encouraging to hear, really. You know, just knowing that my project does not appear non-sensical.
As indicated, the collaborative website will be in French. But if it reaches a real milestone such as land acquired and first installation, I plan to release a newsletter in English, let's say every 4 months or so.
If you stumble onto projects that share aspects with mine, it'd be super helpful to send me a link. I'll add it as a ressource in the public collaborative website and learn as much as possible from it.
Thank you again for your interest! :-)
As indicated, the collaborative website will be in French. But if it reaches a real milestone such as land acquired and first installation, I plan to release a newsletter in English, let's say every 4 months or so.
If you stumble onto projects that share aspects with mine, it'd be super helpful to send me a link. I'll add it as a ressource in the public collaborative website and learn as much as possible from it.
Thank you again for your interest! :-)
I do feel like it's work. It's not a passion. I have little influence. Just code monkey whatever we have in mind, thank you very much, we don't need anything else from you, here's your slightly above average payday, see you tomorrow
I left technology behind almost completely a year or two ago. What I've realised is that most technology doesn't improve our lives, it complicates it and makes it measurably worse. I still check HN, which is probably the last remaining symptom of my link to the tech world.
The world needs less software and less technology, not more. The further down this rabbit hole we go the worse everything gets. Physical health, mental health, social health and the broader links that bind society together all suffer.
It's all noise and its supposed benefits are, for the most part, an illusion.
There's definitely a role for tech to play in our lives, but a limited, balanced role. We're living in a world saturated with it, overdosing daily.
Give it all up, move on, and in time you will recover. Even if it takes years.
Good luck.
(It's unlikely that I will return to read any replies to this comment.)
The world needs less software and less technology, not more. The further down this rabbit hole we go the worse everything gets. Physical health, mental health, social health and the broader links that bind society together all suffer.
It's all noise and its supposed benefits are, for the most part, an illusion.
There's definitely a role for tech to play in our lives, but a limited, balanced role. We're living in a world saturated with it, overdosing daily.
Give it all up, move on, and in time you will recover. Even if it takes years.
Good luck.
(It's unlikely that I will return to read any replies to this comment.)
I think it's too late. We are too far down the rabbit hole in that sense. What does it bode for mankind? I don't know, but I suspect that the future won't be bright. It's frightening.
I sometimes feel like everything is burning around me, as in, on this planet. Everything is burning and yet we pretend it isn't because we are frightened of the possible consequences of acknowledging things aren't doing too great. We are frightened of real change because it might cause everything to come down. So instead we let our lives spin out of control and hope for the best. At this point I'm not even speaking about technology, but this troubles me deeply.
I sometimes feel like everything is burning around me, as in, on this planet. Everything is burning and yet we pretend it isn't because we are frightened of the possible consequences of acknowledging things aren't doing too great. We are frightened of real change because it might cause everything to come down. So instead we let our lives spin out of control and hope for the best. At this point I'm not even speaking about technology, but this troubles me deeply.
It's only in these last few years that I've realised how naive I was about getting into tech to 'empower community' and 'change the world'.
Now I look at what the benevolent masters of the universe at Davos are envisioning (1) for our collective future and it makes me feel sick.
Thankfully I now work on technology that seeks to decentralise power away from these kinds of parasites.
(1) http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_Digital_Transformation_Powe...
Now I look at what the benevolent masters of the universe at Davos are envisioning (1) for our collective future and it makes me feel sick.
Thankfully I now work on technology that seeks to decentralise power away from these kinds of parasites.
(1) http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_Digital_Transformation_Powe...
I feel this is a very biased outlook. I feel we should direct this energy towards the mental health systems of our culture to help guide people how to manage their stressors and escapes.
If I were to replace the word `technology` in your passage with `alcohol` it makes sense to me that `technology` has mutated into more of a substance rather than lifestyle improvement. But, such is most things that can be abused.
Mental health has not been addressed in the past decades at the same pace as other things in the world have periodically been updated.
If I were to replace the word `technology` in your passage with `alcohol` it makes sense to me that `technology` has mutated into more of a substance rather than lifestyle improvement. But, such is most things that can be abused.
Mental health has not been addressed in the past decades at the same pace as other things in the world have periodically been updated.
I don't understand. You say you're done with and "hating on the industry," but the things you list -- "mock-woke" companies, "frat-boy" companies, changing the world or disrupting companies, rent-seeking behemoths, ad tech companies -- are only a tiny, tiny fraction of the tech industry.
Can you give some examples of the bigger part of the tech industry without supporting legacy systems, government IT and academia? I feel companies are having very similar business models because all get from the same pool of money.
I don't know why you want to exclude government IT and academia —- there are tons of good and interesting tech jobs in government and academia -- but anyway, nearly every industry on earth has tech jobs, including IT, hardware, and software, and I could easily spend a month listing hardware and software companies that don't fall into any of the categories the OP finds sickening.
Neither I nor anyone else I personally know who works in tech has ever worked for the "mock-woke" companies, "frat-boy" companies, changing the world or disrupting companies, rent-seeking behemoths, or ad tech companies. Those types of companies are not at all the bulk of the tech industry.
Neither I nor anyone else I personally know who works in tech has ever worked for the "mock-woke" companies, "frat-boy" companies, changing the world or disrupting companies, rent-seeking behemoths, or ad tech companies. Those types of companies are not at all the bulk of the tech industry.
How do you get a job in academia without going through a soul-shattering PhD program though?
All my college friends who took an academic path are miserable.
All my college friends who took an academic path are miserable.
I wasn't thinking about being a professor, I was thinking of all the IT and academic computing jobs, and all the programming jobs developing software for research and development projects in various disciplines, and hardware engineering in many disciplines, etc. Only a small percentage of people working in those jobs have a PhD; I'd guess the majority hold only a bachelor's degree or less.
I would LOVE to work in that capacity. Didn't know it was possible. I thought everyone working in academia was either a professor or a PhD candidate, or students working as TAs and RAs.
How does one go about finding that kind of job?
How does one go about finding that kind of job?
Most colleges and universities have employment listings on their web sites, so if there are specific places you're interested in, go directly to their sites to start. You could also search more generally for "academic computing" jobs. If there's a specific field you have expertise in, or just a strong interest in, you could also email the heads of departments or labs to ask them if they might have a need you could fulfill (often they don't even list such openings, especially if they're temporary or part-time); those folks are not exactly inundated with emails from interested job-seekers, so your email will stand out and is unlikely to perturb them.
Whoa, that's really cool. I had no idea. Thanks for this!
I think you’ll find a lot of sympathy for your criticisms of the industry. Perhaps this has been building for a long time and now it is time for a change for you, but perhaps it’s all being made orders of magnitude worse by timing. COVID, contentious elections, right down to midlife crises can all collude to make life seem more dreary and negative than otherwise they’d appear. If you’re not already, I’d recommend talking to a good counselor or therapist who can help you put things in perspective, and possibly plan your future outside of tech, or not. Good luck!
I feel it. It's only been 8 years for me. I hate my job, mostly for the types of reasons you stated. I try to ignore it because I need the money to support my family.
Quit that soul-sucking craft two decades ago, and although I think about contracting every now and then for some coin, I haven't regretted the decision. Of course, as a massage therapist during Covid, things are pretty ugly right now.
I do not know you.
But maybe accept tech is part of the world now, and is not something set aside for us techies.
So I think you can fall back to standard wisdoms.
Be the change you want to see in life. And you cannot rush time, so don’t expect your vision to become reality in your life.
I stepped out of tech two years ago. But to be hones I stepped out being “a microsoft employee” while not working for microsoft.
And guess what. I now doing more tech than ever. Unless society collapses - tech skill will keep on earning bread so think twice before leaving your skills behind. Just do it your way an * the rest. :)
Be the change you want to see in life. And you cannot rush time, so don’t expect your vision to become reality in your life.
I stepped out of tech two years ago. But to be hones I stepped out being “a microsoft employee” while not working for microsoft.
And guess what. I now doing more tech than ever. Unless society collapses - tech skill will keep on earning bread so think twice before leaving your skills behind. Just do it your way an * the rest. :)
Tech is moving behind the scenes. Stop thinking tech first. Maybe you still thinking in the “old” ways or being distracted by those who live in the past.
Maybe that is creating an disconnect for you?
Tech should follow, not lead.
Maybe that is creating an disconnect for you?
Tech should follow, not lead.
I've been in tech and academia for 25+ years combined, with tech being a larger portion of that time frame. On one hand, I understand your stance. On the other hand, I think that you are overreacting and, more importantly, looking at tech through your "custom" lens (i.e., from several specific perspectives). The issues that you have mentioned are, indeed, real, however, so are many other things that are certainly positive. Plus, it seems that you are conflating (mostly Silicon Valley-based) VC-backed startups' culture and other aspects with a much larger and more diverse tech ecosystem. You just need to zoom out from your current viewpoint and look at the bigger picture. Despite all negative effects, tech and science play an overwhelmingly positive role in improving people's lives on this planet. Consider just a couple of the following examples. Drones that enable delivery of medical supplies to remote locations, helping firefighters to improve their situational awareness and enabling safe and accurate maintenance of large infrastructure objects (buildings, bridges, etc.). Robots that replace people in highly physical-intensive and dangerous industrial and other environments. Medical equipment that improves accuracy of diagnostics, improves treatment outcomes and saves lives. Advances in chemistry and relevant technologies as well as materials science and engineering* provide us with much improved and new advanced materials that improve practically every aspect of our lives. Computational drug development, genetic therapies, green energy technologies, automated transportation. The list goes on and on ... So, I encourage you to reconsider your stance and look at tech from a higher vantage point. Best wishes!
*) Currently I'm working on (bootstrapping) a frontier tech startup in this domain, which I'm very passionate about.
*) Currently I'm working on (bootstrapping) a frontier tech startup in this domain, which I'm very passionate about.
> [I]t seems that you are conflating (mostly Silicon Valley-based) VC-backed startups' culture and other aspects with a much larger and more diverse tech ecosystem.
This.
And even if you exclude the entire academic, government, and private sectors (not just VC-fueled SV), there is still a huge non-profit / NGO sector left over.
This.
And even if you exclude the entire academic, government, and private sectors (not just VC-fueled SV), there is still a huge non-profit / NGO sector left over.
Go see a therapist, you have issues. The issue is with you. Not every company out there is bad, some are bad, some are good. They will of course have their challenges, and you can find one to be a member and figure out how to make them better or you can dip out and be on the sideline complaining about how everything sucks. Go see a therapist, if you can afford to take some time off to decompress and find yourself, so so do. Best of luck.
I've been in tech for far longer, I love it. We really live in the future, when I see the advances that have been made and stop and really contrast with 20yrs or even 10yrs ago, I'm very humbled. We can definitely get better, but things ain't as bad as you make it out to be.
I've been in tech for far longer, I love it. We really live in the future, when I see the advances that have been made and stop and really contrast with 20yrs or even 10yrs ago, I'm very humbled. We can definitely get better, but things ain't as bad as you make it out to be.
Your post is just doubling down on a few memes that are unnecessary stressors leading to burnout.
>Go see a therapist, you have issues. The issue is with you.
The idea that having a negative outlook about the tech workplace is cause for professional intervention to tinker around in someones brain is exactly the kind of lopsided conventional wisdom that doesn't do anyone any good. It's OK to hate your job. Lots of jobs suck. Even jobs some people find a way to like can be miserable. Industries where it's normal for people to expect work to not be fun but have to do it anyway, they have better collective coping mechanisms than tech does. People don't feel wrong for hating their job, and don't have to be afraid to admit it when looking for support.
Pedantically, yes someone suffering from burnout would benefit from talking with a therapist. But in a practical sense going after someone with "The issue is with you" for trying to have a casual talk about burnout among peers is a brutal over-reaction.
>I've been in tech for far longer, I love it. We really live in the future, when I see the advances that have been made and stop and really contrast with 20yrs or even 10yrs ago, I'm very humbled.
The idea that technology and/or progress in and of themselves could or should offset any of the negatives in the workplace is not only bullshit, but a really dumb thing to say to someone dealing with the stressors that lead to burnout.
>Go see a therapist, you have issues. The issue is with you.
The idea that having a negative outlook about the tech workplace is cause for professional intervention to tinker around in someones brain is exactly the kind of lopsided conventional wisdom that doesn't do anyone any good. It's OK to hate your job. Lots of jobs suck. Even jobs some people find a way to like can be miserable. Industries where it's normal for people to expect work to not be fun but have to do it anyway, they have better collective coping mechanisms than tech does. People don't feel wrong for hating their job, and don't have to be afraid to admit it when looking for support.
Pedantically, yes someone suffering from burnout would benefit from talking with a therapist. But in a practical sense going after someone with "The issue is with you" for trying to have a casual talk about burnout among peers is a brutal over-reaction.
>I've been in tech for far longer, I love it. We really live in the future, when I see the advances that have been made and stop and really contrast with 20yrs or even 10yrs ago, I'm very humbled.
The idea that technology and/or progress in and of themselves could or should offset any of the negatives in the workplace is not only bullshit, but a really dumb thing to say to someone dealing with the stressors that lead to burnout.
I think it's pretty good to talk to a therapist when switching careers, I know people who benefited greatly from talking it through.
But, I don't think a dislike of tech work today would need to be an internal issue. Tech had other issues before that are kind of resolved and at the same time new problems have evolved that might not be apparent to all frogs in the water.
The biggest overall problem I see for a life in tech is that constant information has created constant competition to integrate popular ideas into the work place. There are therefore a lot of places that have exactly the same things, and popular things rarely live up to the label, which can be fine, but some can be major irritants.
Of course, there are some places that make a point of being stubborn about keeping a difference, but I'm less likely to estimate in years or decades when an organization claims it is sticking to an unpopular direction than I was in say 2000.
So increasingly, I think there is less choice about many of the factors that go into an office job in a place that prides itself on tech. For all the talk of diversity, there's a lot more one size fits all.
But, I don't think a dislike of tech work today would need to be an internal issue. Tech had other issues before that are kind of resolved and at the same time new problems have evolved that might not be apparent to all frogs in the water.
The biggest overall problem I see for a life in tech is that constant information has created constant competition to integrate popular ideas into the work place. There are therefore a lot of places that have exactly the same things, and popular things rarely live up to the label, which can be fine, but some can be major irritants.
Of course, there are some places that make a point of being stubborn about keeping a difference, but I'm less likely to estimate in years or decades when an organization claims it is sticking to an unpopular direction than I was in say 2000.
So increasingly, I think there is less choice about many of the factors that go into an office job in a place that prides itself on tech. For all the talk of diversity, there's a lot more one size fits all.
I work for a large public tech company that is run by passive-aggressive dickheads who have no clue on how to motivate and retain top talent.
They basically pay you to stay if you are critical.
I've resigned twice, and the result is my salary was doubled to sign another 2 year stay on bonus. Salary is now 4x what it was.
But instead of fixing some really simple issues that would make people happy they are completely clueless.
Either you decide to find what you love, or you continue to trade your soul and happiness for $$$$$
Your call. Choose wisely.
They basically pay you to stay if you are critical.
I've resigned twice, and the result is my salary was doubled to sign another 2 year stay on bonus. Salary is now 4x what it was.
But instead of fixing some really simple issues that would make people happy they are completely clueless.
Either you decide to find what you love, or you continue to trade your soul and happiness for $$$$$
Your call. Choose wisely.
The problem is that we are taught to care too much. And this is a side-effect of a domain that obsesses with optimisation. The higher-ups simply do not understand this. Take sanguy's advice. My own advice would be to quit the profession but continue to use your talents to build something of your own. If you still do not want to do that, take the first exit.
This is why I solely work in government contracting nowadays. Yes, the bureaucracy is awful and yes a majority of the people just sit at their desk to pass time. But the work I pick actually solves problems society has. I don't care about the politics or whatever and I'm not judging whatever policies or solutions I'm engineering but at least it's helping society in automating tasks and making the systems for those policies more resilient. Is it avant-garde tech or AppGoFaNet-abbreviation like pay? No. Often just CRUD, some rule engines and making sure information systems are stitched together. But money wise I'll retire from this before I'm 40-45 and can basically do whatever I want at that point.
Money is freedom. Don't underestimate that. This industry can give you a lot of it in a relatively short time and with the advance of remote working, you don't have to live in high-cost centers to earn high-cost income anymore. Just make sure you're valuable and don't lifestyle-creep your way into being dependent on soul crushing work because the pay is high.
Money is freedom. Don't underestimate that. This industry can give you a lot of it in a relatively short time and with the advance of remote working, you don't have to live in high-cost centers to earn high-cost income anymore. Just make sure you're valuable and don't lifestyle-creep your way into being dependent on soul crushing work because the pay is high.
I've been in tech for 15 years and am starting to become cynical. For me, I no longer want to work on what others want me to work on. I want to use my skills to do things that interest me and provides something back to society. Find something that engages you and checks all of your boxes.
I've seen most people fall into one of two categories: 1. Live to work 2. Work to live
A lot of my friends who are in the "work to live" category find joy in their hobbies. I fall along the first, so without hobbies, I put everything into work. If it's not fulfilling, I get bored and want to move onto something new. Do some soul searching and rediscover your passions and interests.
I've seen most people fall into one of two categories: 1. Live to work 2. Work to live
A lot of my friends who are in the "work to live" category find joy in their hobbies. I fall along the first, so without hobbies, I put everything into work. If it's not fulfilling, I get bored and want to move onto something new. Do some soul searching and rediscover your passions and interests.
I spent a fairly short period of time in "tech."
At some point I decided that's now how I want to spend my life. I've spent the last year's in manufacturing. Mainly building software/hardware stacks to become more efficient. Understand where they are currently. How they can increase capacity and ideally jobs. Plus work on helping to train workers using 21st century techniques.
Much of it is an uphill battle within the industry or companies.
The ability to be part of something that helps to physically make food/beverage/products is more fulfilling.
At some point I decided that's now how I want to spend my life. I've spent the last year's in manufacturing. Mainly building software/hardware stacks to become more efficient. Understand where they are currently. How they can increase capacity and ideally jobs. Plus work on helping to train workers using 21st century techniques.
Much of it is an uphill battle within the industry or companies.
The ability to be part of something that helps to physically make food/beverage/products is more fulfilling.
Wait? It sounds like you work in tech to me?
I don't consider what I'm currently doing "tech". I think of that much more in the startup game, VC funding, and FAANG.
Generally I'm filling a consulting role. Mainly in the product development/launch phases. I will do a small number of Project Roadmapping/Architecture's every year and then PM those.
I find big problems and then help solve them. As my career has progressed, I worry less about the buckets that it falls into.
Generally I'm filling a consulting role. Mainly in the product development/launch phases. I will do a small number of Project Roadmapping/Architecture's every year and then PM those.
I find big problems and then help solve them. As my career has progressed, I worry less about the buckets that it falls into.
Move out of Silicon Valley.
IMO if you aren't world weary, cynical and misanthropic by 40 you are lying to yourself or blissfully ignorant.
I've been there buddy. Things have turned around for me, but I'm living life as if the industry will crash or computers will learn to program themselves. Moved to NV to avoid taxes, only buy what is on sale at Costco, use pay for-what-you-use services (Ting for phone and Metromile for insurance), use Libby App for digital ebooks and audiobooks. I could go on. It's really quite fun to live a frugal lifestyle.
I've been there buddy. Things have turned around for me, but I'm living life as if the industry will crash or computers will learn to program themselves. Moved to NV to avoid taxes, only buy what is on sale at Costco, use pay for-what-you-use services (Ting for phone and Metromile for insurance), use Libby App for digital ebooks and audiobooks. I could go on. It's really quite fun to live a frugal lifestyle.
Yeah, so I feel burned but for different reasons. Mainly the amount of thinking required, and where that thinking involves thinking about the code, what was intended by the legacy code, who do I talk to, are they an asshole, should I bother talking to them or just do something to get the job done, what don't I know, do I refactor, or not, etc. etc. None of the stuff you do at work is simple. It's either complicated, or if you are lucky just complex. Making code and UI's simple seem to be low down on priority lists, and a lot of developers like making coding fun at the expense of making it easy to understand. So yeah I'm a bit over it all.
Yeah. I feel a lot like this too. I left my most recent job in May and don’t have plans to return to tech anytime soon. To fill my time and to try to do something actually useful, I decided to start writing about learning more and thinking better.
that's why i work on Free Software.
i serve customers to pay the bills, but my focus is on supporting FOSS in whichever way i can. it is probably the only area in tech that genuinly contributes to the advancement of civilization. all other tech will eventually die, only FOSS will survive.
Even FOSS seems to be being slowly eaten up by corporate interests these days.
I felt this way about tech a year ago. Everything you said is true, to a degree, but you're only seeing the negatives. Ask yourself why are you only seeing the negatives? Cause there are definitely positives too.
What I found is whenever I can only see the negatives, something is off with me. I'm not taking care of myself. I'm not sleeping enough, I'm not eating right, or something! I found it's really hard to be jaded/bitter when you're active and healthy.
My guess is because you have the energy to tackle all the flaws you see, turning them into opportunities.
What I found is whenever I can only see the negatives, something is off with me. I'm not taking care of myself. I'm not sleeping enough, I'm not eating right, or something! I found it's really hard to be jaded/bitter when you're active and healthy.
My guess is because you have the energy to tackle all the flaws you see, turning them into opportunities.
Agreed. I would say to set aside a little time and see if you can think of anything within the realm of tech that you still find interesting. Regardless of how irrelevant you might think it is at first glance, as you will be biased towards what you think are the 'valuable' roles right now.
For me, while I might be losing a little love for web dev and corporate IT, I realised that I still really enjoyed learning about Linux, using Vim, and doing game development in C (all of which are very different from what I do now, but still within the realm of tech). Reconnect with what made you passionate about technology to begin with, and let that fire guide your choices in the future.
For me, while I might be losing a little love for web dev and corporate IT, I realised that I still really enjoyed learning about Linux, using Vim, and doing game development in C (all of which are very different from what I do now, but still within the realm of tech). Reconnect with what made you passionate about technology to begin with, and let that fire guide your choices in the future.
If you are recognizing that the "change the world", "disrupt ABC", etc. mission statements are total bullshit then you are doing well.
Look for companies that operate in business sectors that are more agreeable to your ethics. There are tons of companies that need qualified software people to help them with their business. They are just businesses doing a needful service and make profit.
It helps if you are just a little interested in the product but you don't have to buy into their mission statements. Exchange your hours for some high amounts of dollars. For example, if one works at Tesla you could safely ignore the "change the world" mission statement crap and just work there cuz you like cars.
Do you think electricians or plumbers care about the philosophy of whatever business/person uses them?
Its okay if work feels like work. Find passion or interests elsewhere.
Look for companies that operate in business sectors that are more agreeable to your ethics. There are tons of companies that need qualified software people to help them with their business. They are just businesses doing a needful service and make profit.
It helps if you are just a little interested in the product but you don't have to buy into their mission statements. Exchange your hours for some high amounts of dollars. For example, if one works at Tesla you could safely ignore the "change the world" mission statement crap and just work there cuz you like cars.
Do you think electricians or plumbers care about the philosophy of whatever business/person uses them?
Its okay if work feels like work. Find passion or interests elsewhere.
I think that approach is great in theory, but in my personal experience I have never been able to put it in practice.
Not caring much about the business and "just doing work" is predicated upon being given the tools you need and clear tasks.
The problem is most companies just throw vague requirements at you, don't give you all the access you need to tools and infra, but expect you to care and "show initiative" and go after things. Also, often times things are gated by other people and you have to convince them to help you (e.g. you can't touch infra and depend on the graces of someone in ops to make the changes you need).
Not caring much about the business and "just doing work" is predicated upon being given the tools you need and clear tasks.
The problem is most companies just throw vague requirements at you, don't give you all the access you need to tools and infra, but expect you to care and "show initiative" and go after things. Also, often times things are gated by other people and you have to convince them to help you (e.g. you can't touch infra and depend on the graces of someone in ops to make the changes you need).
I'm not saying don't care or don't take initiative in your job. Care about the software engineering and your craft and don't hang all of your mental health on a company's mission statement.
If you aren't given the tools you need to get the work done, bring that up with you manager, if that can't be resolved then those are the constraints you have to work with.
If you aren't given the tools you need to get the work done, bring that up with you manager, if that can't be resolved then those are the constraints you have to work with.
You're done with capitalism, not tech. People today confuse the framework with the subject too often.
I agree with this point of view. I often get tired of the relentlessly competitive society that is continually pushed upon us.
The reality is, there are endevours out there which are not predicated on dehumanising zero-sum transactions. For example, non-profits (e.g. Mozilla, Free Software Foundation) and the education sector. Even just receiving education (e.g. part-time post-graduate degrees) can also add a nice flavour and richness to a life otherwise occupied in the rat race.
The reality is, there are endevours out there which are not predicated on dehumanising zero-sum transactions. For example, non-profits (e.g. Mozilla, Free Software Foundation) and the education sector. Even just receiving education (e.g. part-time post-graduate degrees) can also add a nice flavour and richness to a life otherwise occupied in the rat race.
If anything, technical interviews will probably be the thing that makes me throw in the towel and exit the industry. My #1 goal in life at the moment is get into what I would call an "endgame company" and stay there as long as possible, enjoy the work (I genuinely do), and extract the maximum amount of $$$ while at it, then prepare for something else. Maybe help my wife out with her shop while contracting on the side for giggles and extra pocket change.
But while currently working at a non-tech company that pays poorly compared to many mid to upper tier tech companies, the money is still good - arguably better than anything else I could possibly be doing short of having become a medical doctor or hedge fundie.
But while currently working at a non-tech company that pays poorly compared to many mid to upper tier tech companies, the money is still good - arguably better than anything else I could possibly be doing short of having become a medical doctor or hedge fundie.
Not sure why you were downvoted for pretty much having your priorities in life clear.
I've felt this a few times, but ended up not making the jump to a different field because of my lack of expertise compared to tech, and the pay downgrade that would incur.
Something I've realised is that I will often jump to the conclusion of being 'done with tech', predicated on a fairly narrow band of experience. Whilst I may not get my jollies from the 'cloud' and ever-changing landscape of web technologies, I am still genuinely interested in low-level programming, data structures and Linux (I'm a Windows dev). I use these interests to broaden my days beyond just working in my narrow, specialised scope, creating interest and stimulation which otherwise would not exist. Who knows, maybe that can create a realistic diverse career branch out of where I currently am?
Something I've realised is that I will often jump to the conclusion of being 'done with tech', predicated on a fairly narrow band of experience. Whilst I may not get my jollies from the 'cloud' and ever-changing landscape of web technologies, I am still genuinely interested in low-level programming, data structures and Linux (I'm a Windows dev). I use these interests to broaden my days beyond just working in my narrow, specialised scope, creating interest and stimulation which otherwise would not exist. Who knows, maybe that can create a realistic diverse career branch out of where I currently am?
I'm exactly the same as you, but I just don't see how I could get a job doing the low-level stuff that really "clicks" with me. I'm 15 years into my career and it feels like it's impossible to make such a change.
For a short while, 14 years into my own career, I managed to shift from my Windows-oriented .NET development role into an organisation which did PHP against a strong Linux environment. I got the job after demonstrating my expertise at a local programming meetup, by doing a presentation on design patterns (a transferrable skill), and convincing the employer I was keen to learn PHP, how my existing skills could be related to it, and recently-introduced aspects of the language that resonated with me (i.e. PHP with strong object-oriented style, using constructs that were recently-introduced at the time).
If I had stuck it out there, it's possible I could have built up my skillset further in that direction and transitioned into another area that was more low-level and appealing.
The lesson from that is, I think, that you can do a 'stepping stone' approach that is only a few degrees removed from what you do already, each time you transition jobs. Do that a few times, build up some contacts within the new network of people you will meet during that in order to broaden further opportunities, and you may well succeed in a meaningful transition in the medium-term.
If I had stuck it out there, it's possible I could have built up my skillset further in that direction and transitioned into another area that was more low-level and appealing.
The lesson from that is, I think, that you can do a 'stepping stone' approach that is only a few degrees removed from what you do already, each time you transition jobs. Do that a few times, build up some contacts within the new network of people you will meet during that in order to broaden further opportunities, and you may well succeed in a meaningful transition in the medium-term.
I'm not with the mock-woke companies that lie to themselves. I'm done with the frat-boy companies. I'm done with people changing the world by making XYZ obsolete, or disrupting ABC. I'm done with companies pretending to do good or well, while in reality just being rent-seeking behemoths. I'm sick of watching our brightest pollute the world with ad tech. I'm just done.
Does anyone else feel this? Did you get out? What do you do now, and how do you reconcile the sheer difference in dollars?