Bitcoin Is the First New Religion of the 21st Century(twitter.com)
twitter.com
Bitcoin Is the First New Religion of the 21st Century
https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1346064023637385216
37 comments
>describe people that disagree about the efficacy of Bitcoin
That's not what most people mean when they use the term.
It specifically means: people who do not own Bitcoin and are very sour to have missed a once in a lifetime opportunity and will attack it out of pure spite.
That's not what most people mean when they use the term.
It specifically means: people who do not own Bitcoin and are very sour to have missed a once in a lifetime opportunity and will attack it out of pure spite.
That's not quite true. it's the mentality of "The only _possible_ reason why this person doesn't like bitcoin is that they are very sour to have missed a once in a lifetime opportunity etc."
Using that kind of pejorative term for anyone who's not in the inside, is very much cult-like thinking.
it's the same framing device as if I referred to "People who have turned their back on Jesus" instead of "atheists".
Using that kind of pejorative term for anyone who's not in the inside, is very much cult-like thinking.
it's the same framing device as if I referred to "People who have turned their back on Jesus" instead of "atheists".
I've seen multiple bitcoin advocates make comments using that trope to counter any criticism of bitcoin no matter how sound the critique was.
While I don't doubt the term started as a pejorative, there was a recent post by a self-proclaimed "nocoiner" who apparently took ownership of the term: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25626184
That jumped out at me as well. I'd never heard the term, but it was instantly understandable. I'm not sure I'd dismiss someone for using it. From a communication standpoint, it does a pretty good job at concisely expressing an idea.
I was into Bitcoin all the way back in the days, when they were free (I believe I read about it here on HN) and we had faucets and all that up until they were worth around $300. I had great hopes for the technology and was mostly just following stuff on r/bitcoin while also trying to built little proof of concept projects on the side, that could maybe turn into some useful gadget like a payment processing device or similar things.
I got out because it turned into exactly a religion. There was no room for questioning the technology or considerations about whether this was really as useful as we thought it would be.
I got out because it turned into exactly a religion. There was no room for questioning the technology or considerations about whether this was really as useful as we thought it would be.
Even worse is the term "precoiner" (i.e., someone who hasn't "found the light" yet or whatever) which strikes me as about as insulting as saying to someone, "oh, you're not gay, you just haven't found the right woman yet"
I saw that. I happen to know what "nocoiner" means, and immediately stopped reading.
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The list gets more and more absurd as you go down the list. Halving/10,000BTC pizza being celebrated as a holiday? I guess it gets brought up every year but calling it a holiday is a stretch. Also, bitcoiners only eat meat? wtf?
I’ve held Bitcoin for over 7 years and haven’t eaten meat for 10 of those. I’m pretty sure this person, like many others, are trying to capitalize on Bitcoin being in the news to increase their follower count.
They are asking for subscribers.
They are asking for subscribers.
The internet is a meme machine. These are just examples of what internet in-groups do to delineate themselves. Making unironic comparisons to religion is more than a little absurd.
What an opportunity. A group of people emotionally tied to a financial asset is a shark's dream. Any thoughts on how to capitalize on this?
It is no worse/different than people worshiping the US dollar. Anyone that understands Bitcoin and at least has read the White Paper know that Bitcoin (now called Bitcoin Cash) is nothing more that a digital cash replacement for government back currency.
The Bitcoin Core (BTC) crowd co-opted that project into some sick Ponzi scheme but digital peer-to-peer cash lives on in projects like Monero and Bitcoin Cash.
The Bitcoin Core (BTC) crowd co-opted that project into some sick Ponzi scheme but digital peer-to-peer cash lives on in projects like Monero and Bitcoin Cash.
Nobody "worships the US dollar". If you think anyone does, you're in a serious ideological flytrap and should seriously reconsider who you're hanging out with.
Asserting that 'nobody "worships the US dollar' is an astonishing claim.
Loads of people do in fact 'worship the US dollar'.
Perhaps there is a semantic disagreement at hand.
But I have no idea what you are getting at when lob advice like: 'should seriously reconsider who you're hanging out with'.
That type of comment does not help move the conversation forward.
Loads of people do in fact 'worship the US dollar'.
Perhaps there is a semantic disagreement at hand.
But I have no idea what you are getting at when lob advice like: 'should seriously reconsider who you're hanging out with'.
That type of comment does not help move the conversation forward.
Any of those points could be applied to nationhood... except the part about Bitcoiners eating only meat?
And I doubt it's the first since 2000... I hear about stupid new cults trying to recruit members and cash every week.
And I doubt it's the first since 2000... I hear about stupid new cults trying to recruit members and cash every week.
>Any of those points could be applied to nationhood... except the part about Bitcoiners eating only meat?
Yep.
prophet: george washington
genesis: declaration of independence (doesn't have "genesis" in its name though)
sacred text: the constitution
saints and apostles: the founding fathers
holidays: july 4th, president's day
dietary customs: ???
schisms: american civil war
disputed claims to the crown: 2020 elections, if you count the presidency as "the crown"
fury and apostasy: "unamerican", "traitor", "russian asset", etc.
saying and incantations: "freedom", "democracy", "in god we trust", etc.
Yep.
prophet: george washington
genesis: declaration of independence (doesn't have "genesis" in its name though)
sacred text: the constitution
saints and apostles: the founding fathers
holidays: july 4th, president's day
dietary customs: ???
schisms: american civil war
disputed claims to the crown: 2020 elections, if you count the presidency as "the crown"
fury and apostasy: "unamerican", "traitor", "russian asset", etc.
saying and incantations: "freedom", "democracy", "in god we trust", etc.
It's just a classic financial bubble. Once it pops then the fun will be over.
Indeed [1]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
Bitcoin being a bubble and/or crashing is a meme nowadays - and a very uninformed one, since it has crashed at least 4/5 times by now, and none of the crashes was permanent.
Everything has an end, but at this stage, there isn't any more indication that the end will be soon (or even not-so-soon).
Everything has an end, but at this stage, there isn't any more indication that the end will be soon (or even not-so-soon).
> it has crashed at least 4/5 times by now, and none of the crashes was permanent
What do you think a bubble is?
What do you think a bubble is?
I think the implication with many of the "it's just a bubble" comments is that "it's just a bubble [...and after it crashes it will fade into irrelevancy (eg. tulips or beanie babies)]". In that respect the prediction has yet come to fruition. However, if you're talking about it being a bubble in the same way that the stock market or the economy has bubbles[1] you wouldn't be wrong. The GP mentioned "Once it pops then the fun will be over", which makes me think he's closer to the first camp than the second camp.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_cycle
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_cycle
Well, while I disagree with Bitcoin being called a religion, if true, religions are (very unfortunately) forces to be reckoned with socially.
Church of Bitcoin.[1]
[1] https://churchofbitcoin.org/
[1] https://churchofbitcoin.org/
I really like to get 'lifetime membership' you have to send them one satoshi of bitcoin but if you send more you might get a t-shirt.
>To join Church of Bitcoin, simply email [email protected]. To be listed as a verified contributing member, send one satoshi or more to 17YbRoH4kU9gZNPo7SyEp3G3qrLvPun5UB and then email your transaction ID and your real name to [email protected] -- this guarantees lifetime membership in the Church of Bitcoin and will ensure that you are listed on our members page as a verified donor.
>Members making larger contributions may receive a t-shirt or other benefits.
>To join Church of Bitcoin, simply email [email protected]. To be listed as a verified contributing member, send one satoshi or more to 17YbRoH4kU9gZNPo7SyEp3G3qrLvPun5UB and then email your transaction ID and your real name to [email protected] -- this guarantees lifetime membership in the Church of Bitcoin and will ensure that you are listed on our members page as a verified donor.
>Members making larger contributions may receive a t-shirt or other benefits.
Kind of like with Bitcoin itself. Buying one satoshi gets you lifetime membership in the meme cult of mammon, but keep buying more and you might lose your shirt.
Well, don't leave us hanging. You omitted the [0] link preceding the Church of Bitcoin link!
Oops. Here it is![0]
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeroth_law
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeroth_law
Bitcoin is a denomination. Currency is a religion. The value is based on faith.
The meat thing is an absurd claim that I think is meant to indicate that the tweet is a joke. Not sure how seriously it should be considered.
I actually think people are fairly wrong about bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
If you approach some notion of valuing bitcoin, the clearest store of value reasoning is that it can act as an intermediary between different fiat currencies without being beholden to any source currency.
For example, gold has the advantage over bitcoin of being a physical tether - you can make stuff out of gold, people like pretty gold things, etc. But to deal with gold you typically are tied to some source fiat currency. I don’t just mean at the time of purchase when you buy gold in dollars or yen or whatever, but the entire process. Unless you yourself take physical possession of the gold and interface to the exchange, then gold as a store of value can only be retrieved by selling in the source currency you bought it, that is used by whatever custodian is holding it for you. Maybe they would agree some exchange rate to give you the proceeds of your sale in a different currency, but it would amount to the same transaction as selling it in the custodian’s original currency then paying an exchange fee to switch to another fiat currency. Most people, even large investors, won’t bother. Gold purchased in dollars is basically just a store of dollars with transaction costs to get to anything else.
Cryptocurrency has significant potential to be different. I could buy bitcoin in dollars, but open a French bank account and realize the proceeds (without transaction costs) in Euro if I want.
For most stable world currencies, it’s not a big deal (though hedging away from fiat currency for some small amount of cash could be valuable for some). But for people truly exposed to hardship due to devalued currency, poor regional governments or fiscal policy, decline of undiversified sources of GDP, this ability to store value without going through the friction of a volatile fiat currency is a huge value.
So then valuing bitcoin overall would be a function of estimating what total asset level across the globe represents the market demand for this decoupling from fiat currency.
I don’t see bitcoin ever growing to the monetary totals of stable world currencies, it will never grow to the size of precious metal markets, but does that mean its current total asset level is right? I doubt it. There’s lots of room for it to grow just based on this minor usage as a shield from fiat currency for store of value.
The biggest risk in my eyes is whether governments will development ways to regulate bitcoin such that it loses any of this benefit of decoupling from fiat currency, and it becomes like modern gold markets where it’s entirely fronted by a particular source fiat currency depending on geography where you want to transact.
A big risk of course, but the point is that it’s not trivial to dismiss actual tangible benefits of crypto as a value store over alternatives.
You could compare it to fine art markets and freeport holdings in that sense, just without requirement of custodians and more accessible to average people.
If you approach some notion of valuing bitcoin, the clearest store of value reasoning is that it can act as an intermediary between different fiat currencies without being beholden to any source currency.
For example, gold has the advantage over bitcoin of being a physical tether - you can make stuff out of gold, people like pretty gold things, etc. But to deal with gold you typically are tied to some source fiat currency. I don’t just mean at the time of purchase when you buy gold in dollars or yen or whatever, but the entire process. Unless you yourself take physical possession of the gold and interface to the exchange, then gold as a store of value can only be retrieved by selling in the source currency you bought it, that is used by whatever custodian is holding it for you. Maybe they would agree some exchange rate to give you the proceeds of your sale in a different currency, but it would amount to the same transaction as selling it in the custodian’s original currency then paying an exchange fee to switch to another fiat currency. Most people, even large investors, won’t bother. Gold purchased in dollars is basically just a store of dollars with transaction costs to get to anything else.
Cryptocurrency has significant potential to be different. I could buy bitcoin in dollars, but open a French bank account and realize the proceeds (without transaction costs) in Euro if I want.
For most stable world currencies, it’s not a big deal (though hedging away from fiat currency for some small amount of cash could be valuable for some). But for people truly exposed to hardship due to devalued currency, poor regional governments or fiscal policy, decline of undiversified sources of GDP, this ability to store value without going through the friction of a volatile fiat currency is a huge value.
So then valuing bitcoin overall would be a function of estimating what total asset level across the globe represents the market demand for this decoupling from fiat currency.
I don’t see bitcoin ever growing to the monetary totals of stable world currencies, it will never grow to the size of precious metal markets, but does that mean its current total asset level is right? I doubt it. There’s lots of room for it to grow just based on this minor usage as a shield from fiat currency for store of value.
The biggest risk in my eyes is whether governments will development ways to regulate bitcoin such that it loses any of this benefit of decoupling from fiat currency, and it becomes like modern gold markets where it’s entirely fronted by a particular source fiat currency depending on geography where you want to transact.
A big risk of course, but the point is that it’s not trivial to dismiss actual tangible benefits of crypto as a value store over alternatives.
You could compare it to fine art markets and freeport holdings in that sense, just without requirement of custodians and more accessible to average people.
I think it does parallel a religion to some extent, in that it's like being called a heretic by a religion of which you are not a member. It's just hard to take seriously.