America is not made for people who pee(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
America is not made for people who pee
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/06/opinion/sunday/public-toilets-united-states.html
63 comments
The availability of public restrooms in Japan makes travelling there so much easier and less stress. Not only is it possible to go to the toilet, it's a good experience because they keep them so clean. This sends a message that is bigger than just the restroom itself. It tells a tourist (or a resident) they are in a civilised place which acknowledges their humanity.
Not all the restrooms in here in Japan are squeaky clean. Some of the busy Tokyo train station ones are stinky and sticky from urine that splashed on the floor. I have seen some restrooms where the cleaning crew just comes in with a hose and a brush because there is so much urine on the floor. However, 7-11s and the like tend to have really clean restrooms because you're likely to buy something if you can use the restroom and not leave it in haste.
The first time I went to the US (around the year 2000), I was surprised by how difficult it was to find a public restroom. Even malls used to have just a couple of restrooms near the food court.
Also, the restrooms didn't match the expected number of people on the building. As if there's no building code in terms of a public place and number of restrooms that must be available.
I was expecting something similar to an airport which is what most countries do in terms of density of public restrooms, but it was much less (I went to Texas, so other states might have been different)
Also, the restrooms didn't match the expected number of people on the building. As if there's no building code in terms of a public place and number of restrooms that must be available.
I was expecting something similar to an airport which is what most countries do in terms of density of public restrooms, but it was much less (I went to Texas, so other states might have been different)
People have been talking about an uptick in human feces found on sidewalks and alleyways in San Francisco recently as though the pandemic is causing more people to choose to go on the street or as a signal of increased homelessness. I think what the article is talking about is a much bigger cause.
If you're in SF, try finding a bathroom to use even if you do have money to spend somewhere. Everyone has closed their bathrooms because of COVID protocols -- I have no idea if this something mandated by law, or something that businesses are doing, but it's nearly impossible to find a place to relieve yourself unless you're near a park with a public restroom.
I don't have a lot of confidence that the local government in SF is ready to solve this on their own, but just like homelessness, it's much larger than a one-city problem and hopefully more attention on things like this will help everyone chip away at the issues.
If you're in SF, try finding a bathroom to use even if you do have money to spend somewhere. Everyone has closed their bathrooms because of COVID protocols -- I have no idea if this something mandated by law, or something that businesses are doing, but it's nearly impossible to find a place to relieve yourself unless you're near a park with a public restroom.
I don't have a lot of confidence that the local government in SF is ready to solve this on their own, but just like homelessness, it's much larger than a one-city problem and hopefully more attention on things like this will help everyone chip away at the issues.
edit: I lived in SF & Oakland from 2013-2019 and Manhattan from late 2019 - now.
The feces problem in SF is exacerbated by opiates. Heavy opiate use causes extreme constipation and opiate withdrawal causes the opposite. Housing and drugs are the top of funnel problems in SF contributing to everything else. New York City seems to not have anywhere near the level of public feces as SOMA / Downtown SF even throughout the pandemic.
The feces problem in SF is exacerbated by opiates. Heavy opiate use causes extreme constipation and opiate withdrawal causes the opposite. Housing and drugs are the top of funnel problems in SF contributing to everything else. New York City seems to not have anywhere near the level of public feces as SOMA / Downtown SF even throughout the pandemic.
It's not exactly like for like, but compare these maps of available public restrooms in SF and NYC:
- NYC: http://m3.mappler.net/nyrestroom/
- SF: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/viewer?mid=1xRGER_GLPdRdOA...
No disagreement as to the opiate issues in SF exacerbating the problem, but it seems reasonable to think that anyone (drug problem or not) would prefer to use a bathroom than squat on a sidewalk.
- NYC: http://m3.mappler.net/nyrestroom/
- SF: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/viewer?mid=1xRGER_GLPdRdOA...
No disagreement as to the opiate issues in SF exacerbating the problem, but it seems reasonable to think that anyone (drug problem or not) would prefer to use a bathroom than squat on a sidewalk.
Yea I wasn't saying it was the only cause but holy shit I did not know there were that many bathrooms in Manhattan =)
Yes. And just to be clear, this was a problem in SF well before the pandemic.
Success of public restroom infrastructure hinges more on how people think of themselves and their fellow humans, and less about actual pee and poop needs. America lucks the requisite social contracts.
Lots of places would like to have public restrooms but the people passing out in them leaving needles all over and wrecking them ruin it for everyone else.
That's another symptom of America's lack of the social contract. If the persons who are charged with governing had any semblance of respect for the human dignity, they not only would build public toilets, but also centres staffed with social workers where the addicted have a place away from the public to inject and where the syringes are safely deposed of.
It's called harm prevention and this is cheaper (both in monetary and human capital) than just ignoring the problems.
It's called harm prevention and this is cheaper (both in monetary and human capital) than just ignoring the problems.
Or America lacks the requisite janitorial contracts. Can't UberCleans solve this?
[deleted]
IMO he nails it on the head with the Buchwald anecdote.
America has binned the medieval Roman Catholic notion that we are moral agents, which gave rise to the enlightenment, for the older “church knows best” construct.
The church being “free market fiscal economics” manipulated by elites who think they know best. Just like the kings, priests, and barons of old.
If someone with wealth hasn’t decided you are “privy lege” given fiscal trade rules, you don’t get to piss.
America has binned the medieval Roman Catholic notion that we are moral agents, which gave rise to the enlightenment, for the older “church knows best” construct.
The church being “free market fiscal economics” manipulated by elites who think they know best. Just like the kings, priests, and barons of old.
If someone with wealth hasn’t decided you are “privy lege” given fiscal trade rules, you don’t get to piss.
> The church being “free market fiscal economics” manipulated by elites who think they know best
This is so wildly fantastic given the size of modern US government and the size of the national debt. We're passing so-called stimulus/relief packages of unprecedented size, expanding the money supply, etc.
The idea that "free market fiscal economics" weighs on US policy at any level is a complete farce. There's no evidence and it's a certainty that liberals and big-government types hold the most power by far in US government and this has been the case for decades.
Limited government and free market ideology has a caucus of maybe 10 people in Congress. All significant legislation is voted firmly against their favor.
This is so wildly fantastic given the size of modern US government and the size of the national debt. We're passing so-called stimulus/relief packages of unprecedented size, expanding the money supply, etc.
The idea that "free market fiscal economics" weighs on US policy at any level is a complete farce. There's no evidence and it's a certainty that liberals and big-government types hold the most power by far in US government and this has been the case for decades.
Limited government and free market ideology has a caucus of maybe 10 people in Congress. All significant legislation is voted firmly against their favor.
So, a cop was fired in Oklahoma for citing a 3-year old with a $2500 fine for public urination. Sounds kinda harsh given that you can't get cops fired even for killing unarmed law-abiding civilians. Wonder what happened there (did he piss off the wrong people?).
splaytreemap(6)
Were the child and his parents white by any chance?
It’s because the target was a three year old.
Also, your comparison is way off. Not all police departments are the same. Unarmed doesn’t mean “not a threat” or “can in no way be a threat”. I can simply approach you in an angry manner and be a threat. Does it justify death? No, but a three year old?
Also, your comparison is way off. Not all police departments are the same. Unarmed doesn’t mean “not a threat” or “can in no way be a threat”. I can simply approach you in an angry manner and be a threat. Does it justify death? No, but a three year old?
> Unarmed doesn’t mean “not a threat”
How much of a threat are the "unarmed law-abiding civilians" in the comment you replied to?
How much of a threat are the "unarmed law-abiding civilians" in the comment you replied to?
An officer from a well functioning and well trained policeforce would not even shoot to kill a knife wielding attacker. They would at most first shoot a warning shot and then maybe a single shot in the leg if they couldn't stop him with pepperspray or a tazer. An unarmed civilian is most definitely not a threat in any way to a real cop (US police doesn't count as a real cop. They are an embarrassment to police everywhere.)
Warning shots, single shots to the leg, and all less lethal short of 40mm grenade to the head/neck has proven wildly inconsistent at stopping an attacker. Remember the Tueller drill, there is no time for reaction, only action - that means to shoot until the aggressor is incapacitated. This is the time proven way of preventing dead or injured police officers (and civilians!).
It's just that police in Europe and Asia don't really face dangerous and determined criminals.
It's just that police in Europe and Asia don't really face dangerous and determined criminals.
>It's just that police in Europe and Asia don't really face dangerous and determined criminals.
That's just laughable. People in the US are not more dangerous than people in Europe or Asia. Lots of dangerous individuals get stopped by police without killing them with 41 bullets. What is more dangerous is the police's behaviour, behaving like an occupying force. US police would also rather kill someone trying to escape from s minor offence than let them get away. Different way of thinking. One values lives above killcount.
That's just laughable. People in the US are not more dangerous than people in Europe or Asia. Lots of dangerous individuals get stopped by police without killing them with 41 bullets. What is more dangerous is the police's behaviour, behaving like an occupying force. US police would also rather kill someone trying to escape from s minor offence than let them get away. Different way of thinking. One values lives above killcount.
People in the US are far more likely to be armed than people in Europe or Asia. That in fact makes them more dangerous.
All good points, but I don't understand the title.
“ But the United States is simply not made for people who pee.”
That’s in the 4th or 5th paragraph. That’s the human anatomy the title is referring to.
That’s in the 4th or 5th paragraph. That’s the human anatomy the title is referring to.
Shouldn’t the title of the submission match the title of the article? Anatomically correct suggests something very different.
Yes, it should. The submitted title ('America Is Not Made for Anatomically Correct People') broke the site guidelines: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Perhaps the submitter thought the title was linkbait, but I don't see it that way and have reverted it now. Generally we try to avoid euphemisms and Bowdlerisms here. It's better to assume that readers are smart enough to handle things for themselves.
Perhaps the submitter thought the title was linkbait, but I don't see it that way and have reverted it now. Generally we try to avoid euphemisms and Bowdlerisms here. It's better to assume that readers are smart enough to handle things for themselves.
I agree the title is a bit strange (or misleading) but I think it makes sense after reading the article. I originally thought it would be about overweight people or something along the lines of body image.
anatomically correct: having body parts like those of actual people.
So they are basically saying that America is not made for people who have actual human bodies, that need to pee and poop.
So they are basically saying that America is not made for people who have actual human bodies, that need to pee and poop.
But a person could be "anatomically incorrect" due to an accident or birth defect, and they'd still need to pee and poop.
I'd love to open up our bathroom to 99% of the public - most of them would leave the bathroom in better condition than they found it.
It's the jerks that ruin the idea.
It's the jerks that ruin the idea.
Wayback machine link: https://web.archive.org/web/20210306195504/https://www.nytim...
There is a very simple explanation for this not mentioned in this article: well meaning people have pressured legislators to ban for-pay restrooms, and since not many people feel joy when maintaining a free public restroom, not many restroom remained operating.
[1] https://fee.org/articles/why-is-there-a-shortage-in-public-r...
[1] https://fee.org/articles/why-is-there-a-shortage-in-public-r...
Pay restrooms won't stop street defecation due to poverty.
I've traveled in europe, asia and africa and the americas and the US by far has the best public restroom infrastructure.
I’ve traveled extensively in the US since the 70s, and with my wife throughout Western Europe between 1999 and 2006, and back in the US since 2006.
During that time, I found no such public restroom facilities in the US. Paid facilities at gas stations, fast food places, restaurants, and various other businesses, yes. But one way or the other, you always paid for those.
I did see a little bit of public restroom facilities in Europe, and they were okay for what you paid for them. But the paid facilities, especially in France and Belgium near the highways, could be little more than holes in the ground with places to put your feet on the sides. We quickly learned to spot trustworthy businesses like McDonalds and other US companies that would have better paid facilities.
Hotels, conference centers, and the like had better paid restroom facilities than any other places I’ve ever seen before or since, but even movie theaters had Madame Pissoir at the door who could be quite rude and offensive if you were in dire need and would be happy to pay once you were done, but you couldn’t wait.
Even here in the US, we continued to carefully look for McDonalds or Starbucks as a sign that here would be good restroom facilities, and that we would be happy to purchase something there so that we could use their restrooms. At least they were never as rude and offensive as Madame Pissoir.
During that time, I found no such public restroom facilities in the US. Paid facilities at gas stations, fast food places, restaurants, and various other businesses, yes. But one way or the other, you always paid for those.
I did see a little bit of public restroom facilities in Europe, and they were okay for what you paid for them. But the paid facilities, especially in France and Belgium near the highways, could be little more than holes in the ground with places to put your feet on the sides. We quickly learned to spot trustworthy businesses like McDonalds and other US companies that would have better paid facilities.
Hotels, conference centers, and the like had better paid restroom facilities than any other places I’ve ever seen before or since, but even movie theaters had Madame Pissoir at the door who could be quite rude and offensive if you were in dire need and would be happy to pay once you were done, but you couldn’t wait.
Even here in the US, we continued to carefully look for McDonalds or Starbucks as a sign that here would be good restroom facilities, and that we would be happy to purchase something there so that we could use their restrooms. At least they were never as rude and offensive as Madame Pissoir.
I have traveled a lot and I agree completely. As an american I was raised to always expect public facilities but it's very rare.
I don't know where you have traveled but it is the norm to have free public bathrooms and bathrooms in pretty much all businesses open to the public everywhere in Europe I have visited and they were all free and clean.
Where in Europe? Polen maybe, Scandinavia? Not a chance. Their public restrooms are like their prisons: five star luxury hotels compared to what is in the US. And they are free!
Where did you travel in the US?
If you went to San Francisco or New York, how did you manage your requirements for restroom infrastructure?
If you went to San Francisco or New York, how did you manage your requirements for restroom infrastructure?
To be fair, SF public parks almost all have very decent public bathrooms that are actually maintained. I have been impressed with the ones in GG, Dolores, Holly parks.