Are Covid Restrictions the New TSA?(richardhanania.substack.com)
richardhanania.substack.com
Are Covid Restrictions the New TSA?
https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/are-covid-restrictions-the-new-tsa
36 comments
Once there is enough of a buffer in vaccination doses to suggest that everyone who wants one has got one, there isn't a lot of justification for serious COVID countermeasures.
Otherwise what is the endgame? Hermetically sealing every man, woman, child and dog? Life is risky and we all have a lot more medical problems than is commonly acknowledged.
EDIT And until airline travel is basically banned, it isn't like the powers-that-be are truly serious about stopping the spread. The delta variant wasn't unexpected and can't teleport, it crossed borders in a travelling host.
Otherwise what is the endgame? Hermetically sealing every man, woman, child and dog? Life is risky and we all have a lot more medical problems than is commonly acknowledged.
EDIT And until airline travel is basically banned, it isn't like the powers-that-be are truly serious about stopping the spread. The delta variant wasn't unexpected and can't teleport, it crossed borders in a travelling host.
I agree. I had thought the plan was, "have heavy countermeasures in place until we get a vaccine or a cure, to minimize the amount of deaths and burden on our hospitals". We did that. One "bonus objective" was getting enough people vaccinated to make Covid extinct, but that was a longshot. And we failed, miserably, at the attempt.
So Covid is here, we will all get it at some point, there's nothing we can do about that anymore. Countermeasures will not stop that. The only point to some countermeasures is in specific locations where the unvaccinated are getting hit hard an putting a burden on healthcare systems. But that should be targeted and brief, and only to protect other people that need healthcare services. The unvaccinated that have the option to be vaccinated have made their choice.
I'd much rather be in the "herd immunity" timeline, but here we are.
So Covid is here, we will all get it at some point, there's nothing we can do about that anymore. Countermeasures will not stop that. The only point to some countermeasures is in specific locations where the unvaccinated are getting hit hard an putting a burden on healthcare systems. But that should be targeted and brief, and only to protect other people that need healthcare services. The unvaccinated that have the option to be vaccinated have made their choice.
I'd much rather be in the "herd immunity" timeline, but here we are.
It is no different than the "temporary measures" of the Patriot Act.
It boggles my mind how people think governments will ever give back power, once acquired. It doesn't work that way.
It boggles my mind how people think governments will ever give back power, once acquired. It doesn't work that way.
It boggles my mind how people think governments get anything out of covid restrictions.
[deleted]
> everyone who wants one has got one
If too many don't want to, this unfortunately isn't enough. Unvaccinated are a danger to others who can't be vaccinated (children under current rules, people with weak immune system) and where it for whatever reason failed (happend with other vaccines, not sure how likely with mRNA) Thus "vaccine sceptics" don't impact only themselves but can cause effects on others (and yeah, "children aren't hospitLized" but suffer from LongCovid ...)
If too many don't want to, this unfortunately isn't enough. Unvaccinated are a danger to others who can't be vaccinated (children under current rules, people with weak immune system) and where it for whatever reason failed (happend with other vaccines, not sure how likely with mRNA) Thus "vaccine sceptics" don't impact only themselves but can cause effects on others (and yeah, "children aren't hospitLized" but suffer from LongCovid ...)
How is this different from any other behavior?
Being obese makes you more susceptible to most communicable diseases, colds, and flus, yet I don't see anyone calling for Doritos to be banned and those with a BMI over 30 to be restricted from participating in society.
At some point, you have to take personal responsibility. You cannot offload every single one of your personal health concerns on to the rest of the population.
Being obese makes you more susceptible to most communicable diseases, colds, and flus, yet I don't see anyone calling for Doritos to be banned and those with a BMI over 30 to be restricted from participating in society.
At some point, you have to take personal responsibility. You cannot offload every single one of your personal health concerns on to the rest of the population.
>You cannot offload every single one of your personal health concerns on to the rest of the population.
I'm not from the US but this also a very good sum up why the US will never ever have universal health care
I'm not from the US but this also a very good sum up why the US will never ever have universal health care
You being obese doesn't infect my child of being obese. You not being vaccinated can infect my child and cause LongCovid
How far to enforce this and where the limit is and how to balance the different rights is a big debate happening on which I didn't make any claim.
"You all can get vaccinated" however isn't enough, if nobody is being vaccinated. On a vaccination rate of 95% restrictions can't be upheld anymore as well. Where the point is between those I don't know.
How far to enforce this and where the limit is and how to balance the different rights is a big debate happening on which I didn't make any claim.
"You all can get vaccinated" however isn't enough, if nobody is being vaccinated. On a vaccination rate of 95% restrictions can't be upheld anymore as well. Where the point is between those I don't know.
> You being obese doesn't infect my child of being obese.
I wrote:
> Being obese makes you more susceptible to most communicable diseases, colds, and flus
I didn't say an obese person can infect others with obesity. I said they make it more likely that others will get infected with communicable diseases, colds, and flus.
Exactly the same situation with the vaccinated and COVID.
I wrote:
> Being obese makes you more susceptible to most communicable diseases, colds, and flus
I didn't say an obese person can infect others with obesity. I said they make it more likely that others will get infected with communicable diseases, colds, and flus.
Exactly the same situation with the vaccinated and COVID.
Yes, but that's irrelevant for a discussion on restrictions for society. (One might argue how well a insurance of whatever kind should cover for obesity etc.)
The discussion here was about COVID and need for restrictions and restrictions come from the infectious nature.
The discussion here was about COVID and need for restrictions and restrictions come from the infectious nature.
No, it isn't irrelevant. You seem to have missed my point entirely.
An obese individual poses more risks to others than a non-obese individual. They are more susceptible to every disease, which means that if you interact with them in a public place, you are placed more at risk. Obesity itself is also starting to be deemed socially contagious.
> TUESDAY, Jan. 23, 2018 (HealthDay News) -- Living in a neighborhood with a high rate of obesity might raise the odds that you and your children will become plus-sized, too.
https://www.webmd.com/diet/obesity/news/20180123/is-obesity-...
An obese individual poses more risks to others than a non-obese individual. They are more susceptible to every disease, which means that if you interact with them in a public place, you are placed more at risk. Obesity itself is also starting to be deemed socially contagious.
> TUESDAY, Jan. 23, 2018 (HealthDay News) -- Living in a neighborhood with a high rate of obesity might raise the odds that you and your children will become plus-sized, too.
https://www.webmd.com/diet/obesity/news/20180123/is-obesity-...
Even in a society with lots of obese people I can make a choice to live healthy.
For a child, which can't be vaccinated currently, a single contact with a single infected person can cause an infection and consequences.
Quite different for me.
And yes, obesity is bad and we need ways to delay with it (while for the article, i wonder a bit about cause and effect, but I don't wa t to debate this in this thread)
For a child, which can't be vaccinated currently, a single contact with a single infected person can cause an infection and consequences.
Quite different for me.
And yes, obesity is bad and we need ways to delay with it (while for the article, i wonder a bit about cause and effect, but I don't wa t to debate this in this thread)
Again, you are not understanding the point I am making. It has nothing to do with living healthily.
An obese person is more likely to have a communicable disease. Coming into contact with them can cause an infection. This is no different than COVID.
Are you for banning obese people from public spaces? I fail to see the difference.
An obese person is more likely to have a communicable disease. Coming into contact with them can cause an infection. This is no different than COVID.
Are you for banning obese people from public spaces? I fail to see the difference.
you understns dthe difference between social influence (seeing many obese people makes thst "normal", obese people often have unhealthy nutrition habits leading to corresponding offerings, ...) and a virus infection.
And yes, I am for encouraging healthy lifestyle (while that alone isn't enough as there are genetical predeterminations etc.)
And yes, I am for encouraging healthy lifestyle (while that alone isn't enough as there are genetical predeterminations etc.)
@ceilingcorner's main point is that, no matter how healthy you live, an obese person is more likely to infect you. I don't know if I buy that, but I agree none of your answers seem to be on point.
> A group of Italian researchers recommends that obese individuals double their self-isolation time to 28 days, using research from influenza epidemics to argue that such individuals are more susceptible to infections similar to COVID-19 and can be contagious for longer periods of time.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandrasternlicht/2020/05/11/...
> it has been clearly illustrated that obese patients are potentially more vulnerable to COVID-19 and more contagious than lean patients
https://www.rcpjournals.org/content/clinmedicine/20/4/e109
> Due to prolonged viral shedding, quarantine in obese subjects should likely be longer than normal weight individuals.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7130453/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandrasternlicht/2020/05/11/...
> it has been clearly illustrated that obese patients are potentially more vulnerable to COVID-19 and more contagious than lean patients
https://www.rcpjournals.org/content/clinmedicine/20/4/e109
> Due to prolonged viral shedding, quarantine in obese subjects should likely be longer than normal weight individuals.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7130453/
Haven't there been campaigns to ban sugary drinks?
By certain over-zealous governments, yes. Michael Bloomberg, I'm looking at you.
There is also a big difference between making sugary drinks expensive/banned and locking people that consume sugary drinks into their houses.
There is also a big difference between making sugary drinks expensive/banned and locking people that consume sugary drinks into their houses.
There is but I'm glad that there is not enough support for it. It sucks if sugary drink is banned.
In the end its always battle between two sides. The winer get to decide the rules.
In the end its always battle between two sides. The winer get to decide the rules.
>How is this different from any other behavior?
Other behaviour does not cost any business money. People being obese makes businesses money, so why would they fund propoganda to stop it?
Leave obesity, what about water pollution? Do we still remember the events portrayed in movies like Darkwater and documentries like "What lies upstream"? How CDC just stood by while an entire area of human population were being subject to toxic water and produce getting cancer and other serious health issues..
After nearly 5 decades after the events shown in the movie DarkWaters, PFOA is still unregulated in many developing countries.
Where is the health agencies that so want to "save lives", doing something about it. F*k the whole lot of them!
Unvaccinated are a huge risk to the perception that being vaccinated is better option. Bret Weinstein talks about it in their podcast. If most people are vaccinated, then the vaccinated cannot be easily compared against the unvaccinated. So if just in case the vaccine didn't work as expected, it would be very clear by comparing these two populations. Which could be why the push to vaccinate everyone.
Other behaviour does not cost any business money. People being obese makes businesses money, so why would they fund propoganda to stop it?
Leave obesity, what about water pollution? Do we still remember the events portrayed in movies like Darkwater and documentries like "What lies upstream"? How CDC just stood by while an entire area of human population were being subject to toxic water and produce getting cancer and other serious health issues..
After nearly 5 decades after the events shown in the movie DarkWaters, PFOA is still unregulated in many developing countries.
Where is the health agencies that so want to "save lives", doing something about it. F*k the whole lot of them!
Unvaccinated are a huge risk to the perception that being vaccinated is better option. Bret Weinstein talks about it in their podcast. If most people are vaccinated, then the vaccinated cannot be easily compared against the unvaccinated. So if just in case the vaccine didn't work as expected, it would be very clear by comparing these two populations. Which could be why the push to vaccinate everyone.
Virtually everyone that owns stock or an online business has made a killing during the lockdowns. If we lived in the United States of Amazon, I have no doubt that President Bezos would initiate permanent lockdowns.
Otherwise yeah those are good points.
Otherwise yeah those are good points.
I dunno, what's new? There are people out there who advocate war. That is even worse than being unvaccinated, and yet such people often end up in positions of power.
And people with weak immune systems are living in constant danger anyway. They have weak immune systems.
And people with weak immune systems are living in constant danger anyway. They have weak immune systems.
As far as I know there isn’t any serious scientific evidence for long covid, especially in previously healthy persons.
>Thus "vaccine sceptics" don't impact only themselves but can cause effects on others
It goes both way, mandatary vaccine don't impact only themselves but can cause effects on others.
It certainly impact people who do not want to be vaccinated.
It goes both way, mandatary vaccine don't impact only themselves but can cause effects on others.
It certainly impact people who do not want to be vaccinated.
>Children at band practice ... long after it was known COVID-19 poses almost no risk to children
I wish articles wouldn't start out right away by broadcasting their black-and-white side-taking (the evidence here being the implication that there is no reason to control the spread of COVID among children if they have less severe symptoms on average).
I wish articles wouldn't start out right away by broadcasting their black-and-white side-taking (the evidence here being the implication that there is no reason to control the spread of COVID among children if they have less severe symptoms on average).
To me the implication was "look how dystopian these kids look wearing COVID body suits" and not that there no reason to control COVID among children.
Good analogy; even today it's hard to have a "cost vs benefits" discussion on the "War On [Terror,Drugs,Poverty]" or whatever you care to name, really.
"Covid theater" is as apt a description of so much of public policy this last year as "security theater" was of so much post 9-11 horseshit. It's all kabuki meant to show how well you dance with your tribe.
"Covid theater" is as apt a description of so much of public policy this last year as "security theater" was of so much post 9-11 horseshit. It's all kabuki meant to show how well you dance with your tribe.
He keeps talking about cost-benefit analysis. He never explores the fact you can't have a cost-benefit analysis when you have information that is A) untrustworthy, B) constantly changing, or C) conflicting. In that situation, people are going to be either too safe or not safe enough, depending on what "team" you're on relative to them. Nobody can be right. We can spend all our time reading criticisms such as this one all day long and never get anywhere.
Somehow I missed the point in time when it became mandatory for employees to share their health conditions with employer. Do HIV (virus no less deadly for immunocompromised) positive person also has to report their status and current medication plan?
Not unless their job involves activities which could spread HIV.
This is true for jobs where there’s a meaningful risk: when I worked a research institute, I had mandatory vaccines which they provided for anyone with access to the labs, even the IT people. They aren’t allowed to ask for your medical history in most cases (military pilots, etc. have exemptions where it’s a job requirement) but they can require proof of vaccination as long as it doesn’t include medical details.
This is true for jobs where there’s a meaningful risk: when I worked a research institute, I had mandatory vaccines which they provided for anyone with access to the labs, even the IT people. They aren’t allowed to ask for your medical history in most cases (military pilots, etc. have exemptions where it’s a job requirement) but they can require proof of vaccination as long as it doesn’t include medical details.
I assume transmissibility in the workplace affects decisions.
Unvaccinated are the troublemakers here. They enable mutations to occur and spread. If everyone is vaccinated then this can't happen.
We cared enough about 3,000 dying in NY that we slashed and burned our civil liberties.
We kinda-sorta care about 600,000 deaths and counting around the country... enough to ruin small businesses, but little enough to eventually relent and spread COVID more... and I guess see-saw periodically while people bitch and moan about wearing a mask. :D
We kinda-sorta care about 600,000 deaths and counting around the country... enough to ruin small businesses, but little enough to eventually relent and spread COVID more... and I guess see-saw periodically while people bitch and moan about wearing a mask. :D
This is drivel. The idea that we'll eventually worry too much about Covid and other similar viruses that we'll have a new infrastructure which'll be as useless and ineffective as the TSA is just plainly disingenuous.
Anyhow, anyone who advocates for defunding schools instead of advocating for fixing them thinks that capitalism works, so it shouldn't surprise us that the author would suggest that the logical consequence of A is Q.
Anyhow, anyone who advocates for defunding schools instead of advocating for fixing them thinks that capitalism works, so it shouldn't surprise us that the author would suggest that the logical consequence of A is Q.
In contrast, we’re in the middle of a pandemic which has claimed millions of lives, and measures like masks and vaccination are cheap and have minimal downsides. There is no credible reason to believe anyone will continue restrictions when the pandemic is finally over. Vaccination gives us a clear exit path and a robust treatment will only accelerate that.
The author’s argument for children is a similar bit of emotion pretending to be reason. Children die less frequently, although Delta is hitting harder, but long-term complications are nothing to be cavalier about simply because the scientific evidence doesn’t support your lifestyle preferences. Going by the published stats and 50M under 12, letting COVID run rampant still means thousands of dead children (just in the United States), hundreds of thousands of kids with cases severe enough to require hospitalization, and at least an equal number with long-term effects we’re just starting to study. Wearing a mask and only dining outdoors for a few months longer seems like a much better option.