Does the Tuskegee experiment explain black vaccination rates?(mattbruenig.com)
mattbruenig.com
Does the Tuskegee experiment explain black vaccination rates?
https://mattbruenig.com/2021/08/04/does-the-tuskegee-experiment-really-explain-black-vaccination-rates/
73 comments
Has anyone tried actually surveying the black community for an explanation?
Stay out of our communities, please. Chip and Karen coming around with a clipboard being nosy will not help you understand what you are obviously not capable of grasping.
Remember the tshirt : "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."
Remember the tshirt : "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."
I'm not sure that would give an accurate answer.
If you were to ask the other big demographic, they'll tend to come up with all kinds of reasons such as "the vaccine is new and hasn't been tested enough" and the like. But at the end of the day, they are biased against it because others in their peer group are against it (or because they feel pressured by "the other side"). This is obvious due to the strong correlation to political leanings.
But they try to intellectualize it to be some other reason. They may not be lying, but they may not understand why they had a tendency to be averse to vaccination.
If you were to ask the other big demographic, they'll tend to come up with all kinds of reasons such as "the vaccine is new and hasn't been tested enough" and the like. But at the end of the day, they are biased against it because others in their peer group are against it (or because they feel pressured by "the other side"). This is obvious due to the strong correlation to political leanings.
But they try to intellectualize it to be some other reason. They may not be lying, but they may not understand why they had a tendency to be averse to vaccination.
It is not the black community that has to be surveyed, it is about asking those black people who don't want to take it why they don't want to take it.
It is not about surveying everyone.
It is not about surveying everyone.
I am a "black person who doesn't want to take it."
So I can help you: NO.
I am also a teeny tiny bit Cherokee.
So I can Help you: NO.
I don't to explain anything to you because you are not my mother, father or tribal chief.
NO.
Why??? Because I said so.
So I can help you: NO.
I am also a teeny tiny bit Cherokee.
So I can Help you: NO.
I don't to explain anything to you because you are not my mother, father or tribal chief.
NO.
Why??? Because I said so.
> I would guess that awareness of the Tuskegee Experiment and black history more generally is greater among those with higher education than those with lower education. If this guess is right, then knowledge of historical racist medical abuses is actually strongly correlated with getting the vaccine.
This correlation appears meaningless in light of the previous paragraph.
> As with the population in general and every other racial group, black vaccination rates climb in lockstep with educational attainment.
Unless the education/vaccination curve has a different shape, then it would seem that the correlation is unrelated to awareness of the Tuskegee Experiment. The conclusion seems to acknowledge that the two are not causally linked. But then why include the correlation from the first quote above?
This correlation appears meaningless in light of the previous paragraph.
> As with the population in general and every other racial group, black vaccination rates climb in lockstep with educational attainment.
Unless the education/vaccination curve has a different shape, then it would seem that the correlation is unrelated to awareness of the Tuskegee Experiment. The conclusion seems to acknowledge that the two are not causally linked. But then why include the correlation from the first quote above?
To show that awareness of Tuskegee is, if anything, negatively correlated with vaccination rate, and therefore unlikely to be the driver of lower vaccination rates among Blacks.
Edit: Correction: As crackercrews pointed out, I wrote "negatively correlated", when I should have written "positively correlated".
Edit: Correction: As crackercrews pointed out, I wrote "negatively correlated", when I should have written "positively correlated".
Doesn't it show a positive correlation?
Maybe if you showed awareness of the incident you could then draw a correlation. I don't know how many people in the black community or otherwise are aware of it
This also conflates institutionalized schooling with knowledge of Tuskegee (as well as education == institutionalized schooling, but this is typical among many)
The article would be more useful if, along with the table of black vaccination rates vs educational level, it had the tables for other racial groups.
On the other hand, it's a single guy challenging the conventional wisdom we hear pervasively from the prestige media with some very simple, obvious reasoning and basic data. He deserves some credit for that.
I have not seen this reported anywhere in the media, could you share some links?
Data from Feb. 2021: [1] Note that the sample is from Los Angeles County, CA only.
Later data from US Census Bureau surveys.[2] While the Census Bureau did not summarize vaccine hesitation, race, and educational level, they offer downloads of the entire data set of poll replies. (192MB, CSV format), so you can do that yourself. Next data set available August 11th. Good project for big data people.
[1] https://news.usc.edu/182848/education-covid-19-vaccine-safet...
[2] https://public.tableau.com/views/HouseholdPulseSurveyCovid-1...
Later data from US Census Bureau surveys.[2] While the Census Bureau did not summarize vaccine hesitation, race, and educational level, they offer downloads of the entire data set of poll replies. (192MB, CSV format), so you can do that yourself. Next data set available August 11th. Good project for big data people.
[1] https://news.usc.edu/182848/education-covid-19-vaccine-safet...
[2] https://public.tableau.com/views/HouseholdPulseSurveyCovid-1...
> I would guess that awareness of the Tuskegee Experiment and black history more generally is greater among those with higher education than those with lower education. If this guess is right...
He's starting with an assumption that disregards any factors that could make the hypothesis he's trying to disprove correct, and so of course the statistics come out in his favor.
He's starting with an assumption that disregards any factors that could make the hypothesis he's trying to disprove correct, and so of course the statistics come out in his favor.
If you read the post, he actually starts with a couple simple observations that show why the theory is ridiculous.
It's a very short post. About a two minute read. No guesswork needed about assumptions he's making, you can just read the post for yourself.
It's a very short post. About a two minute read. No guesswork needed about assumptions he's making, you can just read the post for yourself.
I've read the post. I'm not guessing at the assumptions he's making, I'm saying they're ridiculous. He had six paragraphs, and somehow completely lost the thread halfway through.
Agreed. Although the article does state that it is the same for other racial groups.
It would also be helpful if he didn't limit it to people aged 30-50. What do the rates look like outside of this band?
It would also be helpful if he didn't limit it to people aged 30-50. What do the rates look like outside of this band?
> This theory checks off certain boxes that make it resonate well within current discourse frameworks, but it doesn’t really make a lot of sense. If the coronavirus vaccines were only being given to black people, then you could see how someone might reason that it is a trick. But they are being given to everyone, including over 100 million white people. Are we meant to think that black people who aren’t getting the vaccine believe that the government is poisoning 100 million white people because the government has a racist history of poisoning black people? The racial analysis here would tell you that there is no way the white supremacist government would do such a thing and so the vaccine must be safe!
Yes, this theory was always ridiculous. Like many other things we hear from the prestige media, it barely merits an eye-roll, let alone a full refutation. Nevertheless, I appreciate Bruenig taking the time.
Sadly, our cultural-professional-managerial elites live in a weird echo chamber where such things must be said. I wonder if they themselves even believe what is coming out of their mouths.
Yes, this theory was always ridiculous. Like many other things we hear from the prestige media, it barely merits an eye-roll, let alone a full refutation. Nevertheless, I appreciate Bruenig taking the time.
Sadly, our cultural-professional-managerial elites live in a weird echo chamber where such things must be said. I wonder if they themselves even believe what is coming out of their mouths.
Dude is trying too hard. The rationale is simple “the govt is clearly willing to harm a group of people so why should I trust them?”
It’s not that the vaccine is another example of minorities being targeted, it’s an example of where the govt say “trust us” and minority groups have a bit more historical awareness where the govt said that and lied.
It’s not that the vaccine is another example of minorities being targeted, it’s an example of where the govt say “trust us” and minority groups have a bit more historical awareness where the govt said that and lied.
> I would guess that awareness of the Tuskegee Experiment and black history more generally is greater among those with higher education than those with lower education. If this guess is right, then knowledge of historical racist medical abuses is actually strongly correlated with getting the vaccine.
That's way too big of a hypothetical to make any of the statistics derived from it worth anything.
Bruenig is just being humorously understated here. Obviously more educated people are more likely to know history. Come on.
I'm not sure how that's obvious? School isn't where I learned about the Tuskegee experiment, so why would I assume that's the primary way people learn about it? That's a claim that actually needs some data to back it up.
I think this is pretty straightforwardly what any social scientist would expect, but if we must have data, see Figure 4 of https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3221924/#!po=29...
>I think this is pretty straightforwardly what any social scientist would expect
And statements like that are why I don't trust any social science without digging a few layers deeper than the data that's initially presented.
And statements like that are why I don't trust any social science without digging a few layers deeper than the data that's initially presented.
I think you're overlooking the fact that black people are much more likely to know about it than white people, and that it's not a function of educational level alone.
No, I'm not overlooking that supposed fact, which also isn't a fact. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3221924/#!po=29...
Interesting link! But FYI it does look like general awareness of the experiments is higher in the Black population.
> With approximately 75% of Blacks and 60% of Whites in this study self-reporting awareness of TSS (i.e., they self-reported having heard of the TSS)
What isn't higher is accurate information about what was actually done in the experiments. This is interesting to know. But mere awareness of the experiments may be driving attitudes regardless of whether the specifics that people believe to be true are actually false.
> With approximately 75% of Blacks and 60% of Whites in this study self-reporting awareness of TSS (i.e., they self-reported having heard of the TSS)
What isn't higher is accurate information about what was actually done in the experiments. This is interesting to know. But mere awareness of the experiments may be driving attitudes regardless of whether the specifics that people believe to be true are actually false.
That's a big if and amusingly detached. Consider the oral history of the Tulsa massacre and how many "educated" people didn't know about it.
There's is a lot of weight coming from a grand parent telling you "hey, this bad stuff happened back in my day so you can't trust these folks" vs reading it in a book and that's hard to quantify.
Fwiw I do think there are other factors at play more related to general socioeconomic issues. They just might also correlate strongly with race, zip code and a bunch of stuff.
There's is a lot of weight coming from a grand parent telling you "hey, this bad stuff happened back in my day so you can't trust these folks" vs reading it in a book and that's hard to quantify.
Fwiw I do think there are other factors at play more related to general socioeconomic issues. They just might also correlate strongly with race, zip code and a bunch of stuff.
How do you know that the government is giving the same vaccines to whites and non-whites?
I mean, I'm white, and I'm pretty sure that they are, but I could forgive a black person for not being so sure.
I mean, I'm white, and I'm pretty sure that they are, but I could forgive a black person for not being so sure.
How do we know that Hillary Clinton isn't harvesting adrenochrome from children?
Conspiracy theories don't even make sense within their own universe any more. At a mass vaccination clinic, there is no "black line" or ""white line", people just randomly get in line, and since a vial has multiple doses in it, it's obvious the same vial serves all races of people in the line.
Favorite recent meme I saw "People who believe in conspiracy theories have never been project managers." That is, when you know how much of a herculean task it is to organize a group of say 20 people with a relatively small project, you understand how impossible it would be to have some mass, global conspiracy where everyone managed to keep their mouth shut.
Favorite recent meme I saw "People who believe in conspiracy theories have never been project managers." That is, when you know how much of a herculean task it is to organize a group of say 20 people with a relatively small project, you understand how impossible it would be to have some mass, global conspiracy where everyone managed to keep their mouth shut.
I dont mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but there is also only a single line at school, at colleges, at jobs, and at the courthouse -- yet outcomes are very, very different between different groups.
It's not about how ridiculous the conspiracy theory is when considering the full context. Obviously it's not the case that the US is using the COVID vaccines to experiment on certain races while excluding others.
It's about why someone might believe such a thing and what you can to do to try to convince them otherwise.
"They use the same vials" isn't a great argument to give to a skeptic. Unless you manage to get in the back rooms and observe the full chain of custody of every syringe, you can't know for sure you're getting the same thing as someone else.
If your existing prior is that you are likely being deceived and tricked into receiving something that may harm you, it's rational to think they'll use techniques to make it seem like you aren't receiving any special treatment.
It's about why someone might believe such a thing and what you can to do to try to convince them otherwise.
"They use the same vials" isn't a great argument to give to a skeptic. Unless you manage to get in the back rooms and observe the full chain of custody of every syringe, you can't know for sure you're getting the same thing as someone else.
If your existing prior is that you are likely being deceived and tricked into receiving something that may harm you, it's rational to think they'll use techniques to make it seem like you aren't receiving any special treatment.
"Back rooms"?? Where I got vaccinated was on a big basketball court where there were rows and rows of vaccination stations. It was all literally out in the open where you could simply watch who was getting vaccinated.
Presumably they're using different syringes for different people in any one sitting, right? If there were a plan to inject some people with something different, the people administering the vaccine could hypothetically decide which syringe to use based on some tiny, subtle marking or alteration that the public wouldn't notice.
If you could see that every syringe used was filled from the same "output port" (don't know the actual term) on the same storage device, then it'd be a lot harder to accuse them of anything.
If you could see that every syringe used was filled from the same "output port" (don't know the actual term) on the same storage device, then it'd be a lot harder to accuse them of anything.
If you're that concerned about getting the "wrong" vaccine, you could just lie about your race when you sign up (of course, that would only deepen the racial divide in vaccination statistics)
Hold up, you have to state your "race" (whatever that means) when you sign up for the vaccine in the US?
Yeah, presumably that's how they gather these stats on vaccination rates across race/age/gender
It might depend on how you get the vaccine. I went to a mass vaccination clinic and was never asked to identify my race, but a family doctor presumably has that information on file and might report statistics to local health authorities?
I did. Almost all government adjacent forms ask you to specify your race. There's even a standard one when you get hired somewhere. There is almost always a 'decline' option, for whatever that is worth.
A better line of reasoning would be based on power symmetry rather than just race.
The Tuskegee experiment happened because the black population was essentially powerless to fight back, perhaps coupled with a feeling of contempt from the ruling class towards them as a people group. Power preys on weakness.
Fast forward to the current day, and although white populations have more power than black populations on average, the ruling elite has a total asymmetrical power advantage over both populations. Therefore, they are able to experiment upon the entire population without much repercussion.
Black people understand powerlessness from their history, and therefore they know to be on guard (more hesitant). White people are less familiar with powerlessness, and can be caught off guard (less hesitant).
The Tuskegee experiment happened because the black population was essentially powerless to fight back, perhaps coupled with a feeling of contempt from the ruling class towards them as a people group. Power preys on weakness.
Fast forward to the current day, and although white populations have more power than black populations on average, the ruling elite has a total asymmetrical power advantage over both populations. Therefore, they are able to experiment upon the entire population without much repercussion.
Black people understand powerlessness from their history, and therefore they know to be on guard (more hesitant). White people are less familiar with powerlessness, and can be caught off guard (less hesitant).
The replies are so typical of these discussions. The media float a narrative without bothering to support it with any evidence. When someone actually looks and finds the easily available evidence says the exact opposite, that evidence is attacked and nitpicked as not rigorous enough to overturn the completely unsupported narrative. Where was all this skepticism before?
> Yes, this theory was always ridiculous. Like many other things we hear from the prestige media, it barely merits an eye-roll, let alone a full refutation. Nevertheless, I appreciate Bruenig taking the time.
I don't think that's fair. I find Bruenig's analysis reductive. It doesn't even look at Black vaccine hesitancy over time, which a halfway decent analysis would have done. What you see is that there is high hesitancy early on, and that hesitancy drops faster than many other groups as time progresses. It could be the case that skepticism, given the history of healthcare and the Black community, drove initial hesitancy, and then that waned as people saw millions of others do just fine. Bruenig's analysis would entirely miss that.
He also takes a huge leap in equating skepticism of healthcare more broadly in the Black community with skepticism of the vaccine in particular. There are so, so many assumptions he is just completely skating past here. E.g., it could entirely be the case that there is broad skepticism of healthcare in the Black community at all educational levels because of issues that persist to this very day (e.g. it's pretty well known that many people working in healthcare believe Black people are less susceptible to physical pain than white people). So, it's entirely plausible that you can start with a higher level of skepticism with respect to anything healthcare related within the Black community (e.g. because of both historical and/or current problems), but see decreasing vaccine hesitancy as education levels increase (e.g. because that correlates with better understanding of the vaccines and the trials it goes through). All of this would be entirely consistent with the data Bruenig presents, but would be entirely inconsistent with his conclusions.
What I am fundamentally getting at is that his analysis is reductive, and could potentially be explained by scenarios that are 100% counter to his conclusion.
I don't think that's fair. I find Bruenig's analysis reductive. It doesn't even look at Black vaccine hesitancy over time, which a halfway decent analysis would have done. What you see is that there is high hesitancy early on, and that hesitancy drops faster than many other groups as time progresses. It could be the case that skepticism, given the history of healthcare and the Black community, drove initial hesitancy, and then that waned as people saw millions of others do just fine. Bruenig's analysis would entirely miss that.
He also takes a huge leap in equating skepticism of healthcare more broadly in the Black community with skepticism of the vaccine in particular. There are so, so many assumptions he is just completely skating past here. E.g., it could entirely be the case that there is broad skepticism of healthcare in the Black community at all educational levels because of issues that persist to this very day (e.g. it's pretty well known that many people working in healthcare believe Black people are less susceptible to physical pain than white people). So, it's entirely plausible that you can start with a higher level of skepticism with respect to anything healthcare related within the Black community (e.g. because of both historical and/or current problems), but see decreasing vaccine hesitancy as education levels increase (e.g. because that correlates with better understanding of the vaccines and the trials it goes through). All of this would be entirely consistent with the data Bruenig presents, but would be entirely inconsistent with his conclusions.
What I am fundamentally getting at is that his analysis is reductive, and could potentially be explained by scenarios that are 100% counter to his conclusion.
I'm not sure what you are saying. But there are black people who are refusing the vaccine because of what the government has done to blacks in the past.
It seems like the Tuskegee narrative could have been correct when vaccines were first rolled out. At that time, front-line and medical workers were being urged to get vaccinated. These populations have a disproportionate share of minorities, so it would have been plausible that they would have felt like guinea pigs.
But now that people of all races are being vaccinated, this idea doesn't make sense anymore.
But now that people of all races are being vaccinated, this idea doesn't make sense anymore.
> These populations have a disproportionate share of minorities, so it would have been plausible that they would have felt like guinea pigs.
That's grossly overstating it.
Whites make up 78% of all employed people, and 72.5% of all healthcare and social assistance workers. They also make up more than 62% of workers in every single subcategory of "healthcare and human assistance". That does not strike me as even remotely under-represented enough that vaccination of healthcare workers could be seen as "whites experimenting on minorities" - not when most healthcare workers are white.
Let me put it this way: 17.4% of healthcare and social assistance workers are black. Meaning that for every one black worker that got vaccinated, more than four white workers would be vaccinated. In what way is it reasonable to see that as "whites treating minorities as guinea pigs"?
Source for employment figures: https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat18.htm
Edit: If we also look at the "front-line worker who works at target, walmart, grocery stores, etc.", that would correspond to the "Supermarkets and other grocery (except convenience) stores" and "Convenience stores" categories, which are 78.4% and 72.1% white, respectively.
That's grossly overstating it.
Whites make up 78% of all employed people, and 72.5% of all healthcare and social assistance workers. They also make up more than 62% of workers in every single subcategory of "healthcare and human assistance". That does not strike me as even remotely under-represented enough that vaccination of healthcare workers could be seen as "whites experimenting on minorities" - not when most healthcare workers are white.
Let me put it this way: 17.4% of healthcare and social assistance workers are black. Meaning that for every one black worker that got vaccinated, more than four white workers would be vaccinated. In what way is it reasonable to see that as "whites treating minorities as guinea pigs"?
Source for employment figures: https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat18.htm
Edit: If we also look at the "front-line worker who works at target, walmart, grocery stores, etc.", that would correspond to the "Supermarkets and other grocery (except convenience) stores" and "Convenience stores" categories, which are 78.4% and 72.1% white, respectively.
In some places, the front-line worker category included people who work at target, walmart, grocery stores, etc.
Everywhere I've lived, these people skew minority. There are probably more of them than there are front line health care workers.
I appreciate your taking the time to run the numbers on health care workers though.
Everywhere I've lived, these people skew minority. There are probably more of them than there are front line health care workers.
I appreciate your taking the time to run the numbers on health care workers though.
ISTR some states are asking people for their insurance details - and while refusing to give details or being uninsured won’t preclude you from getting the vaccine, I could understand how that would could act as a disincentive to poorer folk to getting vaccinated.
That was because most insurance plans cover the vaccine, and the states wanted to save some money; if insurance covers your vaccine, why not bill the insurance company, eh?
This doesn't seem like a hard question to answer. Black americans are underserved by the health care system in basically all other ways. They see fewer doctors, have fewer clinics in neighborhoods where they make up majorities, get fewer referrals from the same doctors, get discharged faster and receive less treatment for the same conditions... I don't have links, but studies like this are everywhere.
So, to me the question is just "Are black americans actually responding differently to the vaccine campaign at all, or are we just measuring an effect that's been there forever?"
So, to me the question is just "Are black americans actually responding differently to the vaccine campaign at all, or are we just measuring an effect that's been there forever?"
Access to clinics is not the limiting factor here. One can get a vaccine in 10 minutes by walking into any Walmart, Walgreens, or CVS. Even barbershops are giving them.
In urban areas you're right but I wonder about those who live in rural areas. Having spent part of my youth in a rural area that was majority black, my first instinct would be to set up clinics at churches. Not everyone has a way to get to the county seat during business hours when the county health department is open but one way or another, pretty much everyone found a way to get to church on Sunday.
1 - https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/chart-gallery/gallery...
Blacks made up 7.8 percent of the rural and 13.1 percent of the urban population.
2 - https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/guidance/g... US population is urban: 249,253,271, rural: 59,492,276
Doing some math, ~12% of the black population is rural, and moreover, other ethnic groups represent a larger share of the rural pop. For the sake of this analysis, rural lack of access to vaccines does not explain low vaccination rates among blacks as a whole.
2 - https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/guidance/g... US population is urban: 249,253,271, rural: 59,492,276
Doing some math, ~12% of the black population is rural, and moreover, other ethnic groups represent a larger share of the rural pop. For the sake of this analysis, rural lack of access to vaccines does not explain low vaccination rates among blacks as a whole.
Either the government should have swiftly mandated total lockdown and vaccination, or they should not have said a tweet about covid response and delegated to medical professionals and scientists. The real tragedy is that covid and vaccines have even entered the political sphere of discourse in the first place. Act swiftly with the best interest of your people at heart and face consequences later, or let the virus win while we bicker over mask mandates. All we have now is a bureaucratic mess.. truly a tragedy of the commons.
I mean come on dude, which world were you living in the last 18 months?
Trump and the GOP have heavily pushed covid into the political sphere. The right wing has worked relentlessly to frame the pandemic in the most political frame possible.
To try to pull some kind of 'well its really all sides' or 'all politicians <whatever>' that is doing a disservice to the truth of history.
There's a major difference between 'not wanting to cause a panic' and the total lies and abdication that characterize the early messages out of the Trump admin - think circa Feb/March 2020.
Trump and the GOP have heavily pushed covid into the political sphere. The right wing has worked relentlessly to frame the pandemic in the most political frame possible.
To try to pull some kind of 'well its really all sides' or 'all politicians <whatever>' that is doing a disservice to the truth of history.
There's a major difference between 'not wanting to cause a panic' and the total lies and abdication that characterize the early messages out of the Trump admin - think circa Feb/March 2020.
‘They would like to have the people come off. I’d rather have the people stay [on the ship]. But I’d go with them. I told them to make the final decision. I would rather — because I like the numbers being where they are. I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault.’
— President Trump
Not sure how great of a source this is - but black people at all education levels seem to be about ~8% less likely than the general population to get vaccinated [1].
However, black people at most education levels are poorer than the average population (unfortunately) - and according to this chart - poor people are also much more likely to not be vaccinated [2].
You can't really make any conclusions from the two charts - but I would guess a lot of this is because black people are disproportionately poorer than average.
[1] https://www.shadac.org/news/HPSVax-06.21#:~:text=47.0%25)%20....
[2] https://www.axios.com/covid-vaccines-low-income-poor-workers...
However, black people at most education levels are poorer than the average population (unfortunately) - and according to this chart - poor people are also much more likely to not be vaccinated [2].
You can't really make any conclusions from the two charts - but I would guess a lot of this is because black people are disproportionately poorer than average.
[1] https://www.shadac.org/news/HPSVax-06.21#:~:text=47.0%25)%20....
[2] https://www.axios.com/covid-vaccines-low-income-poor-workers...
Re: poorer - my partner needed the car on the day I had scheduled a jab, so I had to walk/train. The appointment, as a whole, cost an entire morning. I can work around that, but the practical issues are obvious.
A friend's anecdotal evidence was that skepticism was U-shaped as a function of age - there were older black people much more likely to have close experience of mistreatment. For reference I'm not in the US and some still bring up tuskegee, but also more typical things that do apply locally - "oh some skinheads beat you up? What a shame. Might be nasty if you made an issue of it" type stuff. Younger generations have had less mistreatment - not none, but less - and, like everyone else, are divided between pragmatic decision makers and conspiracy theorists.
Of course, if you're from certain regions of Pakistan, there is much more recent evidence of vaccines specifically being misused, and was also discussed recently on HN (as a point of pedantry, the people in question did get real vaccines. Still pretty awful). I don't believe this has had as much impact as certain sections of the media with a fetish for diaspora narratives and a poor grasp of geography would like.
A friend's anecdotal evidence was that skepticism was U-shaped as a function of age - there were older black people much more likely to have close experience of mistreatment. For reference I'm not in the US and some still bring up tuskegee, but also more typical things that do apply locally - "oh some skinheads beat you up? What a shame. Might be nasty if you made an issue of it" type stuff. Younger generations have had less mistreatment - not none, but less - and, like everyone else, are divided between pragmatic decision makers and conspiracy theorists.
Of course, if you're from certain regions of Pakistan, there is much more recent evidence of vaccines specifically being misused, and was also discussed recently on HN (as a point of pedantry, the people in question did get real vaccines. Still pretty awful). I don't believe this has had as much impact as certain sections of the media with a fetish for diaspora narratives and a poor grasp of geography would like.
In case you're interested, here's a recent preprint that breaks down the demographics of vaccine hesitancy: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v...
>If the coronavirus vaccines were only being given to black people, then you could see how someone might reason that it is a trick. But they are being given to everyone, including over 100 million white people.
You could still give the whites the real vaccine and experiment with the blacks.
You could still give the whites the real vaccine and experiment with the blacks.
> The experts I’ve talked to say issues like accessibility, a lack of investment in Black communities and overall health inequities are the biggest barriers for Black people to get the coronavirus vaccine.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fewer-black-america...
> Barriers to vaccine access faced in many Hispanic communities — alongside the structural limitations communities of color generally face — stand in the way of higher vaccination rates, even as the vaccine becomes more widely available, according to public health experts and community health organizers.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/03/29/us/hispanic-v...
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fewer-black-america...
> Barriers to vaccine access faced in many Hispanic communities — alongside the structural limitations communities of color generally face — stand in the way of higher vaccination rates, even as the vaccine becomes more widely available, according to public health experts and community health organizers.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/03/29/us/hispanic-v...
Post was pretty weak.
To start, it's not only the US government but also big pharma that have experimented on African(American)s[1][2], including Pfizer[3]. In Africa, Incidents like these have contributed to a distrust against Western medicine and vaccines[4].
Also saying that because the vaccines are being given to everyone they can't disproportionally affect certain demographics doesn't really fly either. Systemic racism is nearly synonymous with things that are on their face applied equally but don't end up being fair in the end. You could for example distribute certain drugs to certain neighborhood (pop up vaccination or other demographically targeted events). Lastly, racial differences in both disease and pharmacological response to drugs aren't uncommon. [5].
>Approximately one-fifth of new drugs approved in the past 6 years demonstrated differences in exposure and/or response across racial/ethnic groups, translating to population-specific prescribing recommendations in a few cases.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_experimentation_in_A...
[2] https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2007/12/102785/scholar-speaks-abou...
[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullahi_v._Pfizer,_Inc.
[4] https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/opinion/31washington.html
[5] https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cpt.61
To start, it's not only the US government but also big pharma that have experimented on African(American)s[1][2], including Pfizer[3]. In Africa, Incidents like these have contributed to a distrust against Western medicine and vaccines[4].
Also saying that because the vaccines are being given to everyone they can't disproportionally affect certain demographics doesn't really fly either. Systemic racism is nearly synonymous with things that are on their face applied equally but don't end up being fair in the end. You could for example distribute certain drugs to certain neighborhood (pop up vaccination or other demographically targeted events). Lastly, racial differences in both disease and pharmacological response to drugs aren't uncommon. [5].
>Approximately one-fifth of new drugs approved in the past 6 years demonstrated differences in exposure and/or response across racial/ethnic groups, translating to population-specific prescribing recommendations in a few cases.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_experimentation_in_A...
[2] https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2007/12/102785/scholar-speaks-abou...
[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullahi_v._Pfizer,_Inc.
[4] https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/opinion/31washington.html
[5] https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cpt.61
I'd say it's because the unemployment rate among blacks is high, so they don't have to get it for their jobs at the same rate. They are also poorer, so they don't get it to travel, or go do other rich people stuff. It's probably as simple as that.
Also, from what I've seen, anti-vax videos are popular on WorldstarHipHop.com and other black culture venues. They often have very little censorship compared to YouTube.
Also, from what I've seen, anti-vax videos are popular on WorldstarHipHop.com and other black culture venues. They often have very little censorship compared to YouTube.
No because probably most African Americans haven't heard of it.
Why don't those who are interested simply ask the black people who don't want to be vaccinated why they don't want to be vaccinated and stop all this speculative wankery?
TL;DR summary: No, but "Tuskegee experiment" is a convenient story and easy excuse.
More interesting would be a comparison of COVID vaccination rates (among American blacks) with their acceptance rates of routine childhood vaccinations, tetanus or rabies vaccines following an injury or wild animal bite, and similar.
More interesting would be a comparison of COVID vaccination rates (among American blacks) with their acceptance rates of routine childhood vaccinations, tetanus or rabies vaccines following an injury or wild animal bite, and similar.
Many black people's view of healthcare in America is already negative, https://theundefeated.com/features/new-poll-shows-black-amer... and negative experiences are often communicated first and second-hand.
Black americans are also more willing than other groups to believe in genocidal conspiracy theories,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2569474/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16009745/
There is an ongoing awareness of the Tuskegee experiment in the black community because in every group discussion (among just black people) of the covid vaccines I've observed someone will bring it up.
That said, I'd say it is just one piece of America's extensive history of race-targeted abuse that black Americans are hyper aware of and fuels belief in nonsense conpsiracies.
It does receive quite a lot of outsized attention in media like NPR and academia, to which the original article appears to be responding.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2569474/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16009745/
There is an ongoing awareness of the Tuskegee experiment in the black community because in every group discussion (among just black people) of the covid vaccines I've observed someone will bring it up.
That said, I'd say it is just one piece of America's extensive history of race-targeted abuse that black Americans are hyper aware of and fuels belief in nonsense conpsiracies.
It does receive quite a lot of outsized attention in media like NPR and academia, to which the original article appears to be responding.