I sent over 10k personal thank you videos to my customers(marshallhaas.com)
marshallhaas.com
I sent over 10k personal thank you videos to my customers
https://www.marshallhaas.com/post/how-i-sent-over-10-000-personal-thank-you-videos-to-my-customers-in-2-months
93 comments
From one perspective that's quite thoughtful. From another that's going to significant lengths to deceive your customers into thinking it's much more thoughtful than it is.
Expect it's not personal at all... it's just a lie that fools a good number of people. I absolutely hate these types of letters because it's easy to see them for what they really are, a trick to invoke a completely un-earned emotional response.
I've received thank you cards like this (I volunteer for certain well-regarded organizations). While the thank you card is very nice, the fake "handwritten" part is obvious - the strokes of the pen are a little too clean, too precise to be a human. A human tends to smudge some characters, or some characters will be squeezed in - the robotic handwriting never does that, so it's an obvious giveaway.
Don't get me wrong, receiving a personalized letter is very much appreciated and I appreciate it more because they put extra thought in it, but very few would think of it as actually handwritten by a human.
Don't get me wrong, receiving a personalized letter is very much appreciated and I appreciate it more because they put extra thought in it, but very few would think of it as actually handwritten by a human.
Maybe something more along the lines of this AI handwriting generator?
https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~graves/handwriting.html
https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~graves/handwriting.html
This stuff is terrible. I'm paying charities to do good work, no do deceptive marketing stunts.
My mom made extra money in the '90s doing the manual version of that. She'd pick up a stack of pages with som company's letterhead, a template, and a list of names, and then proceed to hand-write hundreds of nearly identical letters.
This is cool technology, but I think this misses the value of the thank you card in the first place - that you gave the time and attention to each card (and by proxy, person). I guess I wonder without that expense to you, what is the value of the card to them (it's not the literal message, or the card stock)?
Then again, I often aspire to send cards and don't, so this is definitely better than nothing, especially if you personalized the messages.
Then again, I often aspire to send cards and don't, so this is definitely better than nothing, especially if you personalized the messages.
Why not just type the letters and print them normally? Do you think you gain something when recipients mistakenly believe you wrote them by hand?
They have Jefferson's polygraph at the Smithsonian, an idea before its time!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph_(duplicating_device)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph_(duplicating_device)
This is just Mail Merge 2.0 and it feels just as gross as companies trying to pretend they send "personalized" emails when it's all automated. I half-expected this to be a story about a new approach to support/outreach but no, it's just the newer version of "Hey $firstName!".
It's astounding to me that the founder not only did this but then wrote a blog article bragging about it as if this was good idea. Clearly the customers thought this was real (as seen in their replies), I can't imagine most of them would feel the same way if they knew it wasn't personalized at all and was just a deepfake.
The bit about "I would clone myself to greet people so I could work in the back", is super cringe. I'm not even going to open that can of worms... I don't believe this is ethical at all unless there was a clear disclaimer (which it appears there was not). Lastly "the genie is out of the bottle" is a terrible justification.
It's astounding to me that the founder not only did this but then wrote a blog article bragging about it as if this was good idea. Clearly the customers thought this was real (as seen in their replies), I can't imagine most of them would feel the same way if they knew it wasn't personalized at all and was just a deepfake.
The bit about "I would clone myself to greet people so I could work in the back", is super cringe. I'm not even going to open that can of worms... I don't believe this is ethical at all unless there was a clear disclaimer (which it appears there was not). Lastly "the genie is out of the bottle" is a terrible justification.
I agree, he is just enlarging the "Uncanny Valley" now to include fake personal videos. The effect will be to devalue any video greeting in the same way that email is now suspect.
I'm a big fan of Marshall but this is just so clueless. People appreciate the video *because of the cost* that... that's the thing! This is not genuine, at. all.
>If I was a retail store owner greeting customers at the entrance and someone came to me and offered to place a clone to do the same job, so I could be productive in the back, would I take that offer? Yes.
No you wouldn't. Because a creepy clone at the entrance that is unable to reply to customers or interact with them in a genuinely dynamic way would be terrible. Which is what this is.
I don't like being negative but this, this just sucks. You're tricking people in believing you paid a higher cost for that video than you did and thus about the amount of fucks you give about them. Furthermore once more companies start doing this, this format will lose it value because it no longer demonstrates anything even from actual genuine people.
>If I was a retail store owner greeting customers at the entrance and someone came to me and offered to place a clone to do the same job, so I could be productive in the back, would I take that offer? Yes.
No you wouldn't. Because a creepy clone at the entrance that is unable to reply to customers or interact with them in a genuinely dynamic way would be terrible. Which is what this is.
I don't like being negative but this, this just sucks. You're tricking people in believing you paid a higher cost for that video than you did and thus about the amount of fucks you give about them. Furthermore once more companies start doing this, this format will lose it value because it no longer demonstrates anything even from actual genuine people.
I agree. If I was a retail store owner, I would absolutely not want a clone to greet people. It betrays my customers trust, one of the last things you want to do in retail customer service.
Instead I would probably hire someone to greet people, if I felt that was what I needed to make my customers feel welcome. (Or maybe I'd have a sign with my name and picture on it and a message to customers, or maybe I'd train existing employees to greet customers while working. Normal retail customer service.)
Going a step farther, if I had that employee pretend to be me, and then customers found out they were not, I would at the very least lose some customers and probably get the reputation that I try to trick people. This is a really neat trick (for now) with the new technology, but like handwriting fonts on junk mail it doesn't play well once people figure it out.
Instead I would probably hire someone to greet people, if I felt that was what I needed to make my customers feel welcome. (Or maybe I'd have a sign with my name and picture on it and a message to customers, or maybe I'd train existing employees to greet customers while working. Normal retail customer service.)
Going a step farther, if I had that employee pretend to be me, and then customers found out they were not, I would at the very least lose some customers and probably get the reputation that I try to trick people. This is a really neat trick (for now) with the new technology, but like handwriting fonts on junk mail it doesn't play well once people figure it out.
I saw another startup doing this few days before and from the looks of it I'm guessing many more are coming.
I'm guessing soon it will be like the automatic emails which address you like "Hello {{first}} {{last}}!" and anytime I see anyone using my name in subject line it generally has quite the opposite effect on me.
I'm guessing same is gonna happen to videos. As the saying goes, fool me once...
I'm guessing soon it will be like the automatic emails which address you like "Hello {{first}} {{last}}!" and anytime I see anyone using my name in subject line it generally has quite the opposite effect on me.
I'm guessing same is gonna happen to videos. As the saying goes, fool me once...
This seems at least a little unethical. At the very least, I would think worse of a company that sent a video to me that seemed personalized, but later turned out to be mass-produced. He has an ethics section in the article, but doesn't doesn't go very deep and (unsurprisingly) concludes that his own actions were perfectly fine.
The root of the problem is why customers respond well to these videos: they're surprised and impressed that the CEO of the company would take time out of his day to record a thank you video just for them. And the fact is: the CEO did not. It's deception, plain and simple. Not big, evil, Theranos-level deception, but deception still.
To put it another way, how do you think customers would respond if, along with each email, you included some text saying "this video was automatically generated"? I'd assume pretty poorly. The difference between that response and the actual response is the value of the deception here. I think that "if we were honest about this, customers wouldn't like it" is a good litmus test for whether you're doing an ethical thing or not.
Really, I think this is doing a sort of trust arbitrage. The tech exists to fake personal videos now, but customers aren't widely aware of it. You can take advantage of that difference with stunts like this. In a few years, people will know this can easily be done and the value of personal videos will drop. At some point it'll be no different to the average customer than an email with "Hi <name here>!" or a letter with faux-handwriting on it.
The root of the problem is why customers respond well to these videos: they're surprised and impressed that the CEO of the company would take time out of his day to record a thank you video just for them. And the fact is: the CEO did not. It's deception, plain and simple. Not big, evil, Theranos-level deception, but deception still.
To put it another way, how do you think customers would respond if, along with each email, you included some text saying "this video was automatically generated"? I'd assume pretty poorly. The difference between that response and the actual response is the value of the deception here. I think that "if we were honest about this, customers wouldn't like it" is a good litmus test for whether you're doing an ethical thing or not.
Really, I think this is doing a sort of trust arbitrage. The tech exists to fake personal videos now, but customers aren't widely aware of it. You can take advantage of that difference with stunts like this. In a few years, people will know this can easily be done and the value of personal videos will drop. At some point it'll be no different to the average customer than an email with "Hi <name here>!" or a letter with faux-handwriting on it.
> And the fact is: the CEO did not. It's deception, plain and simple. Not big, evil, Theranos-level deception, but deception still.
If you think the blog post is bad, just watch the video on windsor's website: https://www.windsor.io/#video
The CEO plainly says he has time to work on other important things. Jesus, even creating the video in the first place, requires you to say Hey First Name
If you think the blog post is bad, just watch the video on windsor's website: https://www.windsor.io/#video
The CEO plainly says he has time to work on other important things. Jesus, even creating the video in the first place, requires you to say Hey First Name
That video is one of the scariest things I've witnessed in less than 60 seconds. The future of communication will be opt-in, I suppose.
I don't find it that scary. It's a gimmick. It will maybe work once or twice, but how many of these "hey firstname" videos do you think people will watch before catching on?
Sure, it's going to improve a lot, but since the first iteration of automated, personalized video messaging is so low-effort, I actually think people will just be inoculated against the whole idea. As in, don't watch the videos at all.
Sure, it's going to improve a lot, but since the first iteration of automated, personalized video messaging is so low-effort, I actually think people will just be inoculated against the whole idea. As in, don't watch the videos at all.
Hey $HN_NICKNAME,
Your opinion is very important to me and I would like to take a moment to tell you personally how much I care about whatever you say.
I'd be available for a call between 1am and 11pm if you want to discuss one amazing opportunity.
Lisa - VP of Deceptive Marketing.
Your opinion is very important to me and I would like to take a moment to tell you personally how much I care about whatever you say.
I'd be available for a call between 1am and 11pm if you want to discuss one amazing opportunity.
Lisa - VP of Deceptive Marketing.
Attn: rebuilder
Hey rebuilder,
Sorry for spelling up your name incorrectly, we probably had a computer problem over here.
I have recorded a video just for you to apologize.
https://share.synthesia.io/e07bf638-1385-4c92-9970-940a0ebe7...
Lisa - VP of mass-emailing.
Hey rebuilder,
Sorry for spelling up your name incorrectly, we probably had a computer problem over here.
I have recorded a video just for you to apologize.
https://share.synthesia.io/e07bf638-1385-4c92-9970-940a0ebe7...
Lisa - VP of mass-emailing.
That is so cringe. It's shit like this that will really make the masses hate tech companies. Years and years of education, tons and tons of computational resources, engineer months, years, cloud storage, MASSIVE SCALE, billion-dollar valuations (!?) and it's a crummy Ovaltine commercial with a clumsily edited in "Hey Ralphie!"
Actually, it kind of reminds me of those silly commercials you hear on the radio for some real estate seminar... "The Bay Area is a perfect place for our system," or something like that. The cadence is off just enough to notice and kick it over into uncanny valley territory.
Well said, especially this line:
> I think that "if we were honest about this, customers wouldn't like it" is a good litmus test for whether you're doing an ethical thing or not.
> I think that "if we were honest about this, customers wouldn't like it" is a good litmus test for whether you're doing an ethical thing or not.
> In a few years, people will know this can easily be done and the value of personal videos will drop.
Or put another way, people will have to do different things (which aren't easily automated) to earn that value.
Or put another way, people will have to do different things (which aren't easily automated) to earn that value.
Simply add increasingly unlikely and absurd elements to each new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzEVRappRC0
Mostly this is just creepy and weird. I bet all those text blocks from people responding positively to it are from people who don't have any practice or previous context experience in distinguishing AI/generated content from authentic content.
It’s Boomer bait.
As with all new ad technology this works incredibly well.
However the ethics and morals of this is quite questionable.
Recipients take time to respond to what is in essence a spam email. If anyone sends this stuff to me, they'll go on the block list - but if it gets widespread enough then its the 'future' - an inbox full of 'personal' video /audio messages..
Quick someone make a spamfilter for AI videos :)
Recipients take time to respond to what is in essence a spam email. If anyone sends this stuff to me, they'll go on the block list - but if it gets widespread enough then its the 'future' - an inbox full of 'personal' video /audio messages..
Quick someone make a spamfilter for AI videos :)
I used Deepfakes to trick 10k people into thinking I cared
Hey $HN_NICKNAME,
Your opinion is very important to me and I would like to take a moment to tell you personally how much I care about whatever you say.
I'd be available for a call between 1am and 11pm if you want to discuss one amazing opportunity.
Lisa - VP of Deceptive Marketing.
Your opinion is very important to me and I would like to take a moment to tell you personally how much I care about whatever you say.
I'd be available for a call between 1am and 11pm if you want to discuss one amazing opportunity.
Lisa - VP of Deceptive Marketing.
Re: URGENT
Hello $HN_NICKNAME,
Are you still reading HackerNews ? I have this amazing opportunity, lifetime opportunity.
It is the end of Q2, and my boss marshallhaas.com has agreed to make an exceptional discount just for you.
Are you available for a call tonight between 4 am and 6 am ?
Lisa.
Hello $HN_NICKNAME,
Are you still reading HackerNews ? I have this amazing opportunity, lifetime opportunity.
It is the end of Q2, and my boss marshallhaas.com has agreed to make an exceptional discount just for you.
Are you available for a call tonight between 4 am and 6 am ?
Lisa.
we are cyborgs, some of us are ahead of the curve.
I should dress as the Joker for Halloween
EDIT: Let me elaborate. in the 90s, remembering someones birthday with a card was meaningful because you REMEMBER their birthday and took action on it. today, people use Google Calendar to remind themselves to send that 'Happy Birthday' texts, and its not dishonest or deceptive.
In this case its taking that concept of using tech to enhance your abilities to the Nth degree.
now I have that song stuck in my head. M O, M O R
I should dress as the Joker for Halloween
EDIT: Let me elaborate. in the 90s, remembering someones birthday with a card was meaningful because you REMEMBER their birthday and took action on it. today, people use Google Calendar to remind themselves to send that 'Happy Birthday' texts, and its not dishonest or deceptive.
In this case its taking that concept of using tech to enhance your abilities to the Nth degree.
now I have that song stuck in my head. M O, M O R
Devils advocate on
Since all advertising is the practice of psychological manipulation how is this particularly different? Is all advertising unethical?
Even if the process is automated, if the end result is to evoke a nice sentiment in someone, is that really a bad thing? Wouldn't the ethics really come into play in using such tech to rip people off in a variety of ways rather than to merely say thank you for your purchase?
Devils advocate off
I think there's a strong argument to be made that the efficacy of this approach is more tied to the visual senses and novelty of it. It's not just the personalization since as you've pointed out it's no different than a personalized email.
Ultimately it's just a tool, and how people choose to use those tools is all that really matters.
A friend of mine ran a ecommerce company where for years they would physically record at least a couple hundred personalized thank you videos for people each day. While they were quite successful and people really dug them, I can tell you for a fact that such messages may as well have been automated because there's very little you actually know about your customers beyond their purchase/purchase history that you can truly personalize your message to them with.
Since all advertising is the practice of psychological manipulation how is this particularly different? Is all advertising unethical?
Even if the process is automated, if the end result is to evoke a nice sentiment in someone, is that really a bad thing? Wouldn't the ethics really come into play in using such tech to rip people off in a variety of ways rather than to merely say thank you for your purchase?
Devils advocate off
I think there's a strong argument to be made that the efficacy of this approach is more tied to the visual senses and novelty of it. It's not just the personalization since as you've pointed out it's no different than a personalized email.
Ultimately it's just a tool, and how people choose to use those tools is all that really matters.
A friend of mine ran a ecommerce company where for years they would physically record at least a couple hundred personalized thank you videos for people each day. While they were quite successful and people really dug them, I can tell you for a fact that such messages may as well have been automated because there's very little you actually know about your customers beyond their purchase/purchase history that you can truly personalize your message to them with.
> Even if the process is automated, if the end result is to evoke a nice sentiment in someone, is that really a bad thing?
Yes, because it only evokes a nice sentiment if you lie about how it was made. Magic tricks are still fun even if you know they're tricks. This is not at all fun once you know it's a trick.
Yes, because it only evokes a nice sentiment if you lie about how it was made. Magic tricks are still fun even if you know they're tricks. This is not at all fun once you know it's a trick.
The fun is in the novelty, not in the <insert first name>.
Even if it's inherently considered dishonest by some, the same should be vigorously argued for all email/snail mail you have received for decades and frankly I can't remember the last time I've seen someone complain about a personalized email being dishonest.
Even if it's inherently considered dishonest by some, the same should be vigorously argued for all email/snail mail you have received for decades and frankly I can't remember the last time I've seen someone complain about a personalized email being dishonest.
Look at all the responses this guy got from his videos. Reading them, do you really think those people understood how the video was made and just enjoyed the novelty?
"I am amazed by the customer service...It makes me very happy that the team is so invested"
"I can't imagine how much effort must go into doing this"
"This is the first time in my life that I receive a personalized video from the founder of a company"
"This means a lot to me"
"I really appreciated the personal attention"
"I don't know how you have the time!"
"I am amazed by the customer service...It makes me very happy that the team is so invested"
"I can't imagine how much effort must go into doing this"
"This is the first time in my life that I receive a personalized video from the founder of a company"
"This means a lot to me"
"I really appreciated the personal attention"
"I don't know how you have the time!"
While I also recognize the valid argument that this is deceptive, I have to agree with you:
1. In no world would I ever believe that a cold email was significantly personalized/targeted, except if the overall content were highly specific to me. This might be wrong a good portion of the time, but it is what it is.
2. Even if I were 100% unaware of the existence of AI/ML, a video wouldn't change my mind about #1. I would be more inclined to think that they'd recorded themselves rattling off a list of customer names and then stitched that into the main video, or just rerecorded the same video hundreds or thousands of times. The latter would take some dedication, and be a pretty big waste of time, but it wouldn't convince me that the sender knows or cares more about me personally.
3. Including a video message in an email in itself is uncommon in and of itself, personalized or not. If the technique increases conversions, this alone could be a sufficient explanation. To the extent that the personalization does further increase conversions, it's equally valid to hypothesize that a novel tech demo catches their attention as it is to hypothesize that people are being deceived. Personally, I would lean toward the former.
As an aside, even in the promotional video on Windsor's home page, the videos are kind of uncanny valley. May not be a big deal if the recipient doesn't think too much of one word being slightly garbled because the remaining speech sounds natural, but I'd be concerned about it completely butchering some names (particularly longer ones).
1. In no world would I ever believe that a cold email was significantly personalized/targeted, except if the overall content were highly specific to me. This might be wrong a good portion of the time, but it is what it is.
2. Even if I were 100% unaware of the existence of AI/ML, a video wouldn't change my mind about #1. I would be more inclined to think that they'd recorded themselves rattling off a list of customer names and then stitched that into the main video, or just rerecorded the same video hundreds or thousands of times. The latter would take some dedication, and be a pretty big waste of time, but it wouldn't convince me that the sender knows or cares more about me personally.
3. Including a video message in an email in itself is uncommon in and of itself, personalized or not. If the technique increases conversions, this alone could be a sufficient explanation. To the extent that the personalization does further increase conversions, it's equally valid to hypothesize that a novel tech demo catches their attention as it is to hypothesize that people are being deceived. Personally, I would lean toward the former.
As an aside, even in the promotional video on Windsor's home page, the videos are kind of uncanny valley. May not be a big deal if the recipient doesn't think too much of one word being slightly garbled because the remaining speech sounds natural, but I'd be concerned about it completely butchering some names (particularly longer ones).
> Since all advertising is the practice of psychological manipulation how is this particularly different? Is all advertising unethical?
Do you mean "is psychologically manipulating people to buy shit they neither need nor want" ethical? Because that's largely how modern advertising operates.
Do you mean "is psychologically manipulating people to buy shit they neither need nor want" ethical? Because that's largely how modern advertising operates.
Yes, that indeed was more or less my point.
>Really, I think this is doing a sort of trust arbitrage. The tech exists to fake personal videos now, but customers aren't widely aware of it. You can take advantage of that difference with stunts like this. In a few years, people will know this can easily be done and the value of personal videos will drop. At some point it'll be no different to the average customer than an email with "Hi <name here>!" or a letter with faux-handwriting on it.
This was my exact thought as I read this article. The other part to this is that it comes at a societal cost: it will add another layer of distrust and cynicism in how we communicate, all at the expense of a short-term value to a handful of companies that race to maximize the value of this technology over the coming years.
This was my exact thought as I read this article. The other part to this is that it comes at a societal cost: it will add another layer of distrust and cynicism in how we communicate, all at the expense of a short-term value to a handful of companies that race to maximize the value of this technology over the coming years.
Agreed.
That said, I would argue that this specific practice will become more ethical over time (as the arbitrage opportunity disappears). Once customers are aware of the practice, the trust difference fades, and the deception goes away. 10 years from now, this practice will be equivalent to claiming "Famous Fishtoaster's has the best fish toast in the world": it's a lie, but one that all parties know is false so no one is being deceived. Just like no one really believes personalized text in an email implies that that email was handwritten anymore, no one will believe these videos are personalized and the problem goes away.
But yeah, it will be a societal cost: one less thing we can trust. Just like "photos don't lie" went out the window with widespread photoshopping, so will trust in personalized videos.
That said, I would argue that this specific practice will become more ethical over time (as the arbitrage opportunity disappears). Once customers are aware of the practice, the trust difference fades, and the deception goes away. 10 years from now, this practice will be equivalent to claiming "Famous Fishtoaster's has the best fish toast in the world": it's a lie, but one that all parties know is false so no one is being deceived. Just like no one really believes personalized text in an email implies that that email was handwritten anymore, no one will believe these videos are personalized and the problem goes away.
But yeah, it will be a societal cost: one less thing we can trust. Just like "photos don't lie" went out the window with widespread photoshopping, so will trust in personalized videos.
> But yeah, it will be a societal cost: one less thing we can trust. Just like "photos don't lie" went out the window with widespread photoshopping, so will trust in personalized videos.
But video is the final frontier of digital trust. Once photos, video, and audio can no longer be trusted, what will people trust?
Digital cynicism will become total.
But video is the final frontier of digital trust. Once photos, video, and audio can no longer be trusted, what will people trust?
Digital cynicism will become total.
I absolutely agree - same thing like when I get from some co-workers a reply to an email and after the body's reply I see each time the same thing (e.g. "Thank you. John"), identical to all other replies that I got previously from the same person during the last weeks => that always makes me feel a little bit sad (thinking "damn, s/he couldn't even spend literally 2 seconds to write it for real"), [sigh].
You're throwing him under the bus because this is a pretty recent phenomenon. Before email became so "personalized" I'd never get an email mentioning me by name and if I did it was from people who I knew personally. This all changed once marketers starting using "Hey $firstname," now I have no idea if this is from someone who knows me personally or from someone has my name in a massive db.
The fact that there is no disclaimer on this video shouldn't be worse than the fact that there is no disclaimer on emails saying "this email was automatically generated."
This gives me the same warm fuzzy feeling that I'd get when I read an email with my name in it even though 99% of times I'm sure it's not really sent just to me and is auto-generated.
Over time auto-generated videos will become as common as auto generated emails.
The fact that there is no disclaimer on this video shouldn't be worse than the fact that there is no disclaimer on emails saying "this email was automatically generated."
This gives me the same warm fuzzy feeling that I'd get when I read an email with my name in it even though 99% of times I'm sure it's not really sent just to me and is auto-generated.
Over time auto-generated videos will become as common as auto generated emails.
This makes me feel the same way that those "on purpose casual" marketing emails make me feel.
"Tired of your awful insurance. Like ugh, us too! Insurance can be like, so heckin lame sometimes. Let me let you know about [INSURANCE BRAND] ... "
That stuff is absolutely psychotic and is an instant red flag. Just say "Buy this insurance, it's cheap and has features x y z w" and be done with it. I'm not your bff.
This is kind of an aside, but I feel like fast food companies have really taken over this area. Wendy's posting on twitter like "feelin heckin smol right now. normalize self care." NO! Give me McDonalds -- they show a huge picture of the burger with big text that says "Eat This Burger Now" or whatever. That's all I want from you people!
/rant
"Tired of your awful insurance. Like ugh, us too! Insurance can be like, so heckin lame sometimes. Let me let you know about [INSURANCE BRAND] ... "
That stuff is absolutely psychotic and is an instant red flag. Just say "Buy this insurance, it's cheap and has features x y z w" and be done with it. I'm not your bff.
This is kind of an aside, but I feel like fast food companies have really taken over this area. Wendy's posting on twitter like "feelin heckin smol right now. normalize self care." NO! Give me McDonalds -- they show a huge picture of the burger with big text that says "Eat This Burger Now" or whatever. That's all I want from you people!
/rant
Good rant. I agree.
I was just re-watching "Westworld" recently, and there's a moment when Aaron Paul's character Caleb is having a telephone conversation with a sympathetic HR employee who tells him that he didn't get the job.
"Listen, Caleb. Your application was very strong. Unfortunately, our strategy group just hasn't found an opening for you."
Caleb sighs, and says nothing.
The HR employee gently asks, "Caleb, are you still with me?"
"Ok, thank you. Is there anything I should be working on to make myself a better candidate?"
"Like I said, your application was very strong. We just don't have anything that would be a great fit for you right now."
"If I'm not a good fit, is there a different shape I could squeeze myself into?"
There is a pause.
Caleb asks, "Hey, no offense but... are you human?"
"I'm Shaun," the voice says. "I can help you with all kinds of resources... anything else I can do for you today, Caleb?"
This feels a lot like that.
"Listen, Caleb. Your application was very strong. Unfortunately, our strategy group just hasn't found an opening for you."
Caleb sighs, and says nothing.
The HR employee gently asks, "Caleb, are you still with me?"
"Ok, thank you. Is there anything I should be working on to make myself a better candidate?"
"Like I said, your application was very strong. We just don't have anything that would be a great fit for you right now."
"If I'm not a good fit, is there a different shape I could squeeze myself into?"
There is a pause.
Caleb asks, "Hey, no offense but... are you human?"
"I'm Shaun," the voice says. "I can help you with all kinds of resources... anything else I can do for you today, Caleb?"
This feels a lot like that.
I recently received a telemarketing robocall that had a convincingly human voice.
It did polite social chitchat quite well.
But there were a few tell-tale signs: the bot would never interrupt or overlap my talking. It would always wait until I finished speaking to parse my speech, and its pauses were very consistent and slightly longer than what was natural.
When I asked it if it were a robot, it replied, "(giggle) why, do I sound like a robot?"
When I threw it a few unconventional questions, it quickly became clear that there was a script.
It did polite social chitchat quite well.
But there were a few tell-tale signs: the bot would never interrupt or overlap my talking. It would always wait until I finished speaking to parse my speech, and its pauses were very consistent and slightly longer than what was natural.
When I asked it if it were a robot, it replied, "(giggle) why, do I sound like a robot?"
When I threw it a few unconventional questions, it quickly became clear that there was a script.
This is the inevitable next level of marketing/customer service bullshitery.
The lack of self-awareness these people show and even brag about when they manipulate, fake and scam every single aspect and gesture where it still might exist any real connection between humans is astonishing.
This is yet another scorched-earth marketing tactic, it might be "good" for those doing it first ( which is what matters in this damn tech war-economy ) but the price of broken trust, cynicism and apathy that follows is something that affects the whole.
The lack of self-awareness these people show and even brag about when they manipulate, fake and scam every single aspect and gesture where it still might exist any real connection between humans is astonishing.
This is yet another scorched-earth marketing tactic, it might be "good" for those doing it first ( which is what matters in this damn tech war-economy ) but the price of broken trust, cynicism and apathy that follows is something that affects the whole.
> but the price of broken trust, cynicism and apathy that follows is something that affects the whole.
Very well said.
Very well said.
I just got a similar video from my car salesman a couple weeks back, and wondered if it was truly personalized. I just went back and watched it, and I think it is, because his lips are clearly saying my name. Not like the sample video on this post, where it's obvious he's not saying "Andrew" if you look closely. Even still, now I wonder if maybe it was just a better version of this technology.
This will lose its efficacy very quickly once people catch on to the trick, just like everything else in B2C marketing.
Marketing has always been an arms race of sorts.
The idea of a video mail merge is interesting. Not sure I have time to review thank you videos from all of my vendors. The video time crunch cuts both ways whether its making videos or watching them.
I think this is no different than a photocopied signature from the CEO in a personalized letter. We have a Microsoft Certified Partner plaque with a Bill Gates signature that is a reproduction. I'm not losing sleep over it.
This is why we're desensitized to such signatures. Do we really want to be desensitized to videos that look like a recording of a human saying your name?
Next level is having that signature in blue printer ink. The next level above that is automating a pen to write the copied signature onto paper. The next level above that is to use a mechanical hand to grasp a pen and apply the same Bill Gates movements for the signature. The final level is cyborg Bill Gates itself.
I have done this. I hand wrote a letter, figured out how to match what was printed to the colour of the pen after it dried, and then just hand wrote in the names. I used blue so that it looked like it was handwritten.
This is soon going to become mass market technology and people will know it's automated and will just disregard it like any other message / email that has your name trying to make it personal.
I sent paper Christmas cards to people who registered an account on my link aggregator platform. The website is free to use. I wrote about 50 cards by hand. The addresses were provided by the users as a response to my “who wants a Christmas card from me” post.
What this guy did is appalling…
What this guy did is appalling…
So this is basically an ad for https://www.windsor.io/, I guess. Wonder what sort of deal they worked out?
Shame it leaves such a sense of disgust in most people here, to judge by the comments so far. They may have picked the wrong crowd.
Shame it leaves such a sense of disgust in most people here, to judge by the comments so far. They may have picked the wrong crowd.
https://angel.co/company/windsor-2/funding
He's an investor.
He's an investor.
Incredible. "I want to address the ethics of this head on, but without acknowledging my financial stake in this nightmare technology."
Exactly, and this was post was submitted by the founder of windsor.io.
OP is the CEO of windsor.. seems like a #fullDisclosure moment
The developer of oh-my-zsh did something like this when a coworker bought me one of their branded mugs. It's very odd to get as a customer. Not bad, just not expected.
I genuinely cannot believe someone wrote this entire article about how efficiently they lied to 10,000 people without having a single second of self awareness. The only thing I can think of is that Windsor is paying them for promotion, but of course that still doesn't explain it.
"Is this genuine? Of course, it's just as genuine as if I had a clone replace me in all personal interactions so I could get on with stuff I actually care about." How is this not a parody?
Edit: From another comment, he's an investor (https://angel.co/company/windsor-2/funding). Must have slipped his mind when he was writing the "Ethics" section.
"Is this genuine? Of course, it's just as genuine as if I had a clone replace me in all personal interactions so I could get on with stuff I actually care about." How is this not a parody?
Edit: From another comment, he's an investor (https://angel.co/company/windsor-2/funding). Must have slipped his mind when he was writing the "Ethics" section.
This would not be horribly hard to do without the deep fake stuff. 1000 names covers ~72% of the population. Change the video a bit so you have a cut just after the name (One that looks like it fits and you could record just the hello name part and have the other 90% be the same.
Then you send the 237 Mikes the same video but now it is not a deepfake. Once a week or month you sit down and record any new names for half an hour or so.
Longer time sure but not 10k videos long like he implies.
Then you send the 237 Mikes the same video but now it is not a deepfake. Once a week or month you sit down and record any new names for half an hour or so.
Longer time sure but not 10k videos long like he implies.
Just to be clear most of your customers are not as excited or invested in your phone screen protectors as you are. This is weird.
And... now it's ruined for everyone. When someone does bother to sit down and write a personal email or compose a personal video or record a personal audio greeting, it will be difficult to distinguish it from the faked kind. Fake sincerity has taken over from reality, and now we're left worse off than before.
The engineering that went into this is insane
On the one hand, as a work of technology this is pretty neat, and I'm having fun with the fact that this even happened at all in a "wow the future really is now" sort of way, but holy lord who lives in heaven, HOW did this happen without anyone telling him off for this obviously horrible idea.
This is an ad.
https://angel.co/company/windsor-2/funding
There's zero reason to believe any of the data is true.
https://angel.co/company/windsor-2/funding
There's zero reason to believe any of the data is true.
An ad submitted by the CEO of windsor
Thanks! now I know that if someone from a business sends me a recording thanking me, its probably just a rouse.
This post might have been less profoundly slimy had it not proudly reeled off emails from customers who actually did take time out of their day to write their replies, thinking that some form of person-to-person communication had already been established.
Look at all these suckers who took the bait! Just think what automatic catfishing could do for your business!
Now, if only you could automate the second layer and keep that Awesome Customer Engagement going, all without the pesky time sink of human involvement. Just do a sentiment analysis on the email the customer sent and send them the appropriate response video -- either "Wow Andrew, thanks so much for your reply Andrew! It's always great to hear from our favorite customers like you Andrew!" or "Andrew, I'm so sorry to hear that you aren't completely satisfied. Andrew, I'm putting you directly in touch with Jen, who leads our Andrew Satisfaction department. Just give her a call at 555-123-4567 and follow the prompts to indicate whether this is about a return, a new order, or the status of an existing order."
Look at all these suckers who took the bait! Just think what automatic catfishing could do for your business!
Now, if only you could automate the second layer and keep that Awesome Customer Engagement going, all without the pesky time sink of human involvement. Just do a sentiment analysis on the email the customer sent and send them the appropriate response video -- either "Wow Andrew, thanks so much for your reply Andrew! It's always great to hear from our favorite customers like you Andrew!" or "Andrew, I'm so sorry to hear that you aren't completely satisfied. Andrew, I'm putting you directly in touch with Jen, who leads our Andrew Satisfaction department. Just give her a call at 555-123-4567 and follow the prompts to indicate whether this is about a return, a new order, or the status of an existing order."
Next week on Show HN: a subscription service that allows consumers to send "convincingly" "personal" automatic replies to fool companies into thinking this s** actually works.
I like it. With advanced enough technology we may be able to completely automate the process of driving customer engagement and the process of being an engaged customer. That writhing ouroboros could generate trillions of dollars in pretend value.
This seems similar to Tavus, as discussed (70+ comments) just over a week ago in Launch HN: Tavus (YC S21) – AI-generated personalized videos for sales outreach:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28037322
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28037322
> During our 60 day experiment, inside that window of time we had a split of customers that received a video, and those that didn't.
>* - Of those that didn't receive a personalized video from me, only 3.75% purchased from us again in those 60 days.*
>* - Of those that received a personalized video from me, 7.02% purchased from us again in those 60 days.*
On one hand this is in my opinion a bit narrow-minded/short-term. Let's see what happens once people understand that the video wasn't personal (that they were tricked to think that it was?) + once a few more companies start doing the same thing.
On the other hand, I can believe that having videos which mention your name (let's be a visionary: let's imagine that e.g. Facebook's user profiles or similar stuff can be used, therefore that even some funny/happy comments can be added to the video mentioning e.g. some of your favourite things like stuff you like to eat/read/do or your favourite color etc...) can be somehow more entertaining or at least more "engaging" (as it's currently one of the most favourite buzzwords used in the Internet) compared to plain old-style videos.
But: that reminds me of the few times when I was sitting in a room (or I was in a conference call) and there was another person that had the same name as mine => each-single-time that that person's name was mentioned (same as mine) I got stressed (suddenly having to pay attention) and after 1-2 hours I was tired even if I actually didn't have to interact at all => I can think that such strategy, involving ~personalized videos, might have the same effect, meaning that people can only focus on few things that try to get their attention before starting to feel tired.
BTW.: I noticed just now, for the first time since years, that the comments-window can be resized :P I now do feel quite stupid, but I still feel like celebrating, hehe. Until today I wrote all my comments in the window having its default size, which is quite tiny... :D
>* - Of those that didn't receive a personalized video from me, only 3.75% purchased from us again in those 60 days.*
>* - Of those that received a personalized video from me, 7.02% purchased from us again in those 60 days.*
On one hand this is in my opinion a bit narrow-minded/short-term. Let's see what happens once people understand that the video wasn't personal (that they were tricked to think that it was?) + once a few more companies start doing the same thing.
On the other hand, I can believe that having videos which mention your name (let's be a visionary: let's imagine that e.g. Facebook's user profiles or similar stuff can be used, therefore that even some funny/happy comments can be added to the video mentioning e.g. some of your favourite things like stuff you like to eat/read/do or your favourite color etc...) can be somehow more entertaining or at least more "engaging" (as it's currently one of the most favourite buzzwords used in the Internet) compared to plain old-style videos.
But: that reminds me of the few times when I was sitting in a room (or I was in a conference call) and there was another person that had the same name as mine => each-single-time that that person's name was mentioned (same as mine) I got stressed (suddenly having to pay attention) and after 1-2 hours I was tired even if I actually didn't have to interact at all => I can think that such strategy, involving ~personalized videos, might have the same effect, meaning that people can only focus on few things that try to get their attention before starting to feel tired.
BTW.: I noticed just now, for the first time since years, that the comments-window can be resized :P I now do feel quite stupid, but I still feel like celebrating, hehe. Until today I wrote all my comments in the window having its default size, which is quite tiny... :D
The videos were generated using Windsor a YC startup [0].
[0] https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/windsor
[0] https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/windsor
Personal and social bounds on the ethics of sincerity are interesting to explore.
Does a deep-faked video thank-you from the CEO feel more or less sincere than other long-established gestures?
1. Flowers organised by assistants with a card signed “by the CEO” without their knowledge or involvement. (“Thank you for the flowers!” “The flowers? Oh, yes. The flowers.”)
2. An assistant PMing everyone individually on a company Slack channel from the CEO's account to say how _deeply valued_ they are as a SincereApp employee.
3. Thank-yous ghost-written by professional writers bearing another's signature. (Freelance letter writing exists already, although not to the extent that it's portrayed in _Her_ where lovers, family members and professional colleagues hire Joaquin Phoenix as Theodore Twombly to write their personal correspondence and love notes for 20 years straight.)
4. Professional actors or celebrities congratulating strangers they don't know. (Already exists at https://www.cameo.com/.)
5. Handwritten notes from company employees thanking you for your belief in their company, when handwriting a note is a to-do on a packing and shipping checklist.
6. Mailmerged printed marketing proclaiming, “You're our favourite customer, [name]!”
All of these feign sincerity to some degree.
The difference with the deepfaked video thankery linked here is that it's not well-known to be fake yet.
There will be an initial period where people are impressed by it (they sent flowers!), then disappointed, betrayed, and tricked to learn that the gesture was automated.
Does a deep-faked video thank-you from the CEO feel more or less sincere than other long-established gestures?
1. Flowers organised by assistants with a card signed “by the CEO” without their knowledge or involvement. (“Thank you for the flowers!” “The flowers? Oh, yes. The flowers.”)
2. An assistant PMing everyone individually on a company Slack channel from the CEO's account to say how _deeply valued_ they are as a SincereApp employee.
3. Thank-yous ghost-written by professional writers bearing another's signature. (Freelance letter writing exists already, although not to the extent that it's portrayed in _Her_ where lovers, family members and professional colleagues hire Joaquin Phoenix as Theodore Twombly to write their personal correspondence and love notes for 20 years straight.)
4. Professional actors or celebrities congratulating strangers they don't know. (Already exists at https://www.cameo.com/.)
5. Handwritten notes from company employees thanking you for your belief in their company, when handwriting a note is a to-do on a packing and shipping checklist.
6. Mailmerged printed marketing proclaiming, “You're our favourite customer, [name]!”
All of these feign sincerity to some degree.
The difference with the deepfaked video thankery linked here is that it's not well-known to be fake yet.
There will be an initial period where people are impressed by it (they sent flowers!), then disappointed, betrayed, and tricked to learn that the gesture was automated.
One day we'll be opening “personal messages” from CEOs and feeling no more special or warm inside than we do from the “happy birthday!” phpBB emails we get from long-forgotten forums on the day we pretended was our birthday for security reasons.
And, let's be real, that day is probably tomorrow now that we all know the SaaS [Sincerity As A Service] industry 2.0 exists.
And, let's be real, that day is probably tomorrow now that we all know the SaaS [Sincerity As A Service] industry 2.0 exists.
For a list of all the ways technology has improved your life, please press one…
I keep up with hundreds of people in my job and something personal like this really goes a long way.
https://www.handwrytten.com/