Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal(sevendaysvt.com)
sevendaysvt.com
Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal
https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/some-vermonters-turn-to-ayahuasca-as-a-last-resort-to-heal-their-bodies-and-minds/Content?oid=32812290
82 comments
I've tried every psy except Ayahuasca: DMT, LSD, Bromo-DragonFLY, RC's from the 2c family, ketamine, MDMA, and so on. In each case, I had "profound" realizations during the experience that lasted a day or two, then I reverted back to my normal ways of being depressed in a messy apartment and slacking at my job. In this article, I see descriptors of Ayahuasca similar to those of other psychedelics (years of therapy in 1 day etc.); is it really more profound than what the other drugs do?
What comes after the trip is often called “integration” and it’s even more important than the trip.
The medicine (and any other form of support like therapists, etc.) can only show you the path to healing yourself, the actual work of healing yourself can only be done by you.
The idea that the lessons seem profound, is rooted in the idea of ego death and listening to your higher self. As the medicine wears off the ego returns.
Your intention makes a huge difference too. If you take the medicine with the intention of healing, or with a healing guide like a shaman or medicine worker they can help support you through the integration.
The medicine (and any other form of support like therapists, etc.) can only show you the path to healing yourself, the actual work of healing yourself can only be done by you.
The idea that the lessons seem profound, is rooted in the idea of ego death and listening to your higher self. As the medicine wears off the ego returns.
Your intention makes a huge difference too. If you take the medicine with the intention of healing, or with a healing guide like a shaman or medicine worker they can help support you through the integration.
Can you give an example of how the path is shown during the ego death and how one does the work of going down that path after the ego returns? Isn’t the ego the barrier to the path?
From what friends have described, it is very different. I’ve seen it transform a number of lives, including one guy who started out with a single visit to Peru to do it and the decided to live there permenantly. I think context matters as well — these people were all doing it as a group to accomplish something with a shaman, and not just for fun at a rave or whatever.
Did he move there to continue the use? How is that different from an addiction?
You don’t need to go to Peru to get it (there’s plenty of drugs in the Bay Area). He moved there to fundamentally change his life.
Ok. Does he consume it regulary?
Even if you want you can't!
Tolerance to hallucinogens grows exponentially. If one take a blotter of LSD, wait 24h, then take another blotter, it will feel like [¼,½] of the original dose. If one wait another 24h and take another dose it will feel like [⅛,¼] and so on. With LSD one must wait a few day between doses to feel the full effects.
With psilocybin, the period of abstinence required to feel the full effect is measured in weeks.
I have no personal experience with Ayahuasca, but administered daily it is probably not too different from medical treatment with Isocarboxazid as the psychedelic component should dissapear and the MAO inhibition should persist.
Tolerance to hallucinogens grows exponentially. If one take a blotter of LSD, wait 24h, then take another blotter, it will feel like [¼,½] of the original dose. If one wait another 24h and take another dose it will feel like [⅛,¼] and so on. With LSD one must wait a few day between doses to feel the full effects.
With psilocybin, the period of abstinence required to feel the full effect is measured in weeks.
I have no personal experience with Ayahuasca, but administered daily it is probably not too different from medical treatment with Isocarboxazid as the psychedelic component should dissapear and the MAO inhibition should persist.
Ayahuasca actually is different. There is no noticeable tolerance, unlike most other psychedelics.
I can't tell you as this particular example was a colleague that I didn't know that well, but from talking to him I don't think it's what you think it is. These kinds of drugs aren't really fun party drugs. They're deep, introspective, intense things that aren't fun at all. And literature shows hallucinogens generally aren't addictive.
Most people take these substances at most a few times a year, similar to going on a travel vacation. You need time to reset and you don't feel like doing it again for a while. This is far less often than the most addictive drug many of us use, caffeine. Would this mean going on vacations is an addiction? Maybe.
I have heard tales that the Andes are full of Westerners, mostly young men, who blew out their modern brains and now wander forever..
source: psy-friendly people who have been there
source: psy-friendly people who have been there
I have not tried any; but I'just curious -- if you write your epiphanies down do they hold their values or turn into gobbledygook when you sober up?
I've tried mushrooms (both dried and natural) and LSD. In my case, "epiphanies" were basically the same as what you get when you smoke a lot of pot or drink a lot of beer: "the world is in 3d", "time is only a construct", "everything in the universe is connected", "our bodies can't physically touch due to the space between atoms", etc. I've written them down in journals, but it's all "gobbledygook" as you mention.
They may seem trite, but these are fundamental truths that 98% of the population will never know. You remember the feelings of subjective profound realization. This is what is important.
I tried MDMA many years ago. It gave me a different perspective of the world: one of wonder and extreme beauty. I don't carry it with me in daily life, but it's very easy for me to turn that perspective on at will, and at times when I come across extreme ugliness or extreme beauty, I do turn on that perspective. It's almost a spiritual thing, where you see with amazement that this world even exists as organized chaos despite all the random collisions of atoms in the universe.
Like most things with the mind, it's what you put into it. I wouldn't expect a magic pill to take that just fixes everything. I found this part of the article quite shocking:
> "I walked out of that office feeling hopelessly depressed," he said. "That was a real turning point. I realized for the first time that, if I was going to overcome my depression, it would have to be self-driven."
Uhh, ya it's going to have to be self-driven. If you're expecting to just take a pill and do no actual work yourself, then you're totally unrealistic about taking control of your own mind and life. This goes for any area of life, weight, depression, happiness, etc. That culture/pharma/whomever sells this idea of an easy out to Americans is quite sad.
Like most things with the mind, it's what you put into it. I wouldn't expect a magic pill to take that just fixes everything. I found this part of the article quite shocking:
> "I walked out of that office feeling hopelessly depressed," he said. "That was a real turning point. I realized for the first time that, if I was going to overcome my depression, it would have to be self-driven."
Uhh, ya it's going to have to be self-driven. If you're expecting to just take a pill and do no actual work yourself, then you're totally unrealistic about taking control of your own mind and life. This goes for any area of life, weight, depression, happiness, etc. That culture/pharma/whomever sells this idea of an easy out to Americans is quite sad.
I've not tried Ayahuasca but I doubt it. The real trick is to hold on to the memory of your profound realizations and meditate on those lessons every now and then, without needing the psychedelics.
Netflix has show about some stuff like that and one episode is about Ayahuasca. My TL;DR from that episode: it helped for at least one person, but some people do to get anything from that.
Yeah that relief only works in the long term with actively changing how you think and feel about “all this”, I imagine that’s why it’s applied in the context of therapy rather than a one-and-done panacea that I feel is being pushed popularly. Don’t get me wrong, regardless of the tool used therapy takes a lot of work, and for me personally it took a lot of years and requires constant vigilance for me to keep it together. Eating some caps on its own isn’t going to fix anything.
Ayahuasca is a much longer, heavier application (drink vs smoke) of DMT + MAOI, so you have had a taste. I have also had everything in your list too.
D is one of the few drugs I deeply deeply fear/respect, and folks should not take this lightly. The spirit molecule is nothing to be trifled with.
D is one of the few drugs I deeply deeply fear/respect, and folks should not take this lightly. The spirit molecule is nothing to be trifled with.
I’ve never heard of “D” but I know from experience actual proper LSD is not to be taken lightly either.
D = DMT
For sure, One should respect LSD also. It is not a 'party drug'. But DMT is something quite different. LSD will warp reality for a day. D will rip you right out of reality for 5 mins.
For sure, One should respect LSD also. It is not a 'party drug'. But DMT is something quite different. LSD will warp reality for a day. D will rip you right out of reality for 5 mins.
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Comedy Central runs a Youtube series where comedians talk about their drug trips, and the DMT ones always seem INTENSE. It seems like if you take enough you basically check out of reality for a while, wondering if that's true/what your experience was?
Literally ripped out of reality. Teleported to another time and place. It totally disrupts your senses from reality, and substitutes something else. One time I recall seeing the walls growing with vines like snakes, and being transported to a place with purple light.
When you emerge, you feel refreshed and renewed.
Do you remember deep dream? When i first saw it, I thought we might have some kind of ML model of the human experience of D.
When you emerge, you feel refreshed and renewed.
Do you remember deep dream? When i first saw it, I thought we might have some kind of ML model of the human experience of D.
I also had that purple light vision. Curious if it was the same? Mine was our in space, purple and white lights all over the place, some kind of universal womb with souls.
I wonder if that connects at all to the pink beam of light that Philip K. Dick wrote about in VALIS, etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valis_(novel)
It can be useful just to remember that it is possible to feel those profound experiences. That you have access to them, and that your normal, depressed experience is subjective too.
What are you doing during these experiences?
What are your moments leading up to them?
What are your weeks after it?
Are you doing them for fun or are you intentionally doing them to improve and analyze your life?
Psychedelics have had an incredibly positive impact on my life and have led to prolonged and drastic changes.
I've healed relationships, changed life long habits and truly feel as though I am on the continual path of self improvement and being a better person. Those were all seeds that were sewn during a psychedelic experience.
These compounds may change your life overnight (but only for a week or so) what they mainly do is plant seeds in very fertile soil. It is on you to recognize the seeds and water them in your normal, daily life.
Are you doing them for fun or are you intentionally doing them to improve and analyze your life?
Psychedelics have had an incredibly positive impact on my life and have led to prolonged and drastic changes.
I've healed relationships, changed life long habits and truly feel as though I am on the continual path of self improvement and being a better person. Those were all seeds that were sewn during a psychedelic experience.
These compounds may change your life overnight (but only for a week or so) what they mainly do is plant seeds in very fertile soil. It is on you to recognize the seeds and water them in your normal, daily life.
Heh maybe stop doing so many drugs?
Yes
You're not doing the hard integration work, so the window of opportunity closes and you haven't healed.
Ayahuasca is DMT + some maoi to prologue the effect (and make you puke). Beyond the longer trip the only more 'profound' thing is the rituals which presumably put you in a more spiritual setting. If you've done DMT and so many other psychedelics there's little reason to think you'll get that much more from Ayahuasca.
Much like if you read a good book, as time goes on you will lose the details and only recall the main gist unless you reread the book occasionally. There is concrete work to do beyond just getting in the right state of mind. It sounds like you're doing the surgery but ignoring the post-surgical physical therapy required to fully heal. I'd suggest a guide to help with the 2nd part. If you'd really like to learn some things about yourself and the experience that you'll likely forget soon after, record your entire session and rewatch it while sober. Listening to your words/questions and watching yourself will retrigger some of those experiences/lessons in much higher clarity.
I happy for you, that you've been able to access so many psychedelics that many others will never come close to, but how much therapy have you had? How many different types of therapy have you tried? How many mainstream pharmaceuticals have you tried?
By your own admission, you're depressed and are slacking at work, have you tried looking into an ADHD diagnosis?
By your own admission, you're depressed and are slacking at work, have you tried looking into an ADHD diagnosis?
> is it really more profound than what the other drugs do?
I suspect the drug itself is only part of the equation. A common theme among these newsworthy success stories is that the people had extremely high expectations going into their experiences. They weren't just seeking a recreational experience. They were convinced that this was the cure for all of their problems after reading a lot of glowing reports.
Some of them even paid thousands of dollars, traveled long distances, and participated in elaborate ceremonies with strong religious overtones:
> In February 2020, Whalen spent $3,000 to attend a seven-day ayahuasca retreat at the Soltara Healing Center in Costa Rica. On four of the seven nights, she participated in ayahuasca ceremonies with 16 other participants and two shamans.
> As each drank the brew, Whalen said, the healers sang icaros, or healing songs, meant to pull them deeper into the medicine.
> The woman pressed her lips against Whalen's head and inhaled deeply. "And just like that, I stopped crying ... and I knew it was over," Whalen said. "I could think of the people who hurt me; I could think of those times, all of the mistakes that I've made, and there was no longer that surge of shame and pain.
It seems the psychedelics may not be directly exerting an anti-depressant effect, but they may be pushing the right buttons in the brain to open the door for pseudo-profound experiences. Surround the psychedelic with enough high expectations and rituals and maybe it can help convince people that something amazing has happened.
But FWIW, I think most psychedelic experiences don't live up to the hyperbole in these articles or Michael Pollan books. I have a few friends who tried the Ayahuasca retreat thing. They said a lot of the people there were repeat customers back for their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th experience, hoping that maybe this time would be the magical time where they received the amazing benefits they had been primed to expect.
I suspect the drug itself is only part of the equation. A common theme among these newsworthy success stories is that the people had extremely high expectations going into their experiences. They weren't just seeking a recreational experience. They were convinced that this was the cure for all of their problems after reading a lot of glowing reports.
Some of them even paid thousands of dollars, traveled long distances, and participated in elaborate ceremonies with strong religious overtones:
> In February 2020, Whalen spent $3,000 to attend a seven-day ayahuasca retreat at the Soltara Healing Center in Costa Rica. On four of the seven nights, she participated in ayahuasca ceremonies with 16 other participants and two shamans.
> As each drank the brew, Whalen said, the healers sang icaros, or healing songs, meant to pull them deeper into the medicine.
> The woman pressed her lips against Whalen's head and inhaled deeply. "And just like that, I stopped crying ... and I knew it was over," Whalen said. "I could think of the people who hurt me; I could think of those times, all of the mistakes that I've made, and there was no longer that surge of shame and pain.
It seems the psychedelics may not be directly exerting an anti-depressant effect, but they may be pushing the right buttons in the brain to open the door for pseudo-profound experiences. Surround the psychedelic with enough high expectations and rituals and maybe it can help convince people that something amazing has happened.
But FWIW, I think most psychedelic experiences don't live up to the hyperbole in these articles or Michael Pollan books. I have a few friends who tried the Ayahuasca retreat thing. They said a lot of the people there were repeat customers back for their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th experience, hoping that maybe this time would be the magical time where they received the amazing benefits they had been primed to expect.
+1 to everyone talking about the importance of integration after a psychedelic experience. Talking with someone else can help distill the important insights from the trip and separate wheat from chaff. Once you have that as a base, you can start to think about and plan longer term larger changes to your life, in whatever direction you want to change.
If you're ever need someone to talk to either during a trip or afterwards for integration, please check out Fireside Project[0] at 62-FIRESIDE. I'm a volunteer on the line there, it's a great group of people building culture and support to help everyone interested in self-transformation using these powerful tools.
[0] https://firesideproject.org/
If you're ever need someone to talk to either during a trip or afterwards for integration, please check out Fireside Project[0] at 62-FIRESIDE. I'm a volunteer on the line there, it's a great group of people building culture and support to help everyone interested in self-transformation using these powerful tools.
[0] https://firesideproject.org/
I have tried both everything from your list and Ayahuasca (multiple sessions in a jungle retreat in Peru). From my experience nothing comes close to LSD. Ayahuasca is definitely an intense experience - both physically and mentally - but the “effect” did not last much longer compared to other substances.
Not with that mindset, no. The shamans in Peru consider ayahuasca to be medicine for the soul. It will bring up your worst fears and problems as visions, so you can face them.
I did ayahuasca 6 times and I'm not a drug user at all. Never even tried pot! But for me it was a life altering experience, and I think every single person on the planet should try it. It will change who you are.
I did ayahuasca 6 times and I'm not a drug user at all. Never even tried pot! But for me it was a life altering experience, and I think every single person on the planet should try it. It will change who you are.
Almost the same experience with most psychedelic drugs here except I wouldn’t say I had any profound realizations, more so that things I knew and understood in my subconscious I was more more open to myself about.
Ofc a few days later and I’m back on my bullshit.
Ofc a few days later and I’m back on my bullshit.
Ayahuasca is usually tied to a complex ritual involving fasting and guidance by a shaman. Taking the drug is only part of it.
It is not like with recreative drugs where is is more like "take a dose and see what happens".
I think it is the real difference, there is a lot of conditioning happening, both when sober and under influence. In the same way, dropping mescaline and participating in a Native American ritual involving Peyote can be a totally difference experience even though the chemical is the same, and in psychedelic therapies the therapy is the important part, the drug is just an assistance.
It is not like with recreative drugs where is is more like "take a dose and see what happens".
I think it is the real difference, there is a lot of conditioning happening, both when sober and under influence. In the same way, dropping mescaline and participating in a Native American ritual involving Peyote can be a totally difference experience even though the chemical is the same, and in psychedelic therapies the therapy is the important part, the drug is just an assistance.
fridif(5)
I can't help but wonder what kind of world we exist in, if people are driven to drugs (not specifically ayahuasca, but also prescribed ones) just to live.
The spike in mental health diagnoses and drug use ... it feels like there's something seriously wrong with the world and environment in which these people exist. The system is broken, as it were.
The spike in mental health diagnoses and drug use ... it feels like there's something seriously wrong with the world and environment in which these people exist. The system is broken, as it were.
Many, if not most, of the pre-modern civilizations of the world were to some degree or another vision-seeking. Ayahuasca is a psychedelic. If people were never at all seeking altered states of consciousness, that would be surprising.
Though I do agree. I read some study somewhere about the absurd proposition that the Nordic countries are the happiest on earth--when they also have the highest use of SSRIs in the world. What kind of world is it wherein people are driven to lame pharmaceuticals to maintain their lives?
Though I do agree. I read some study somewhere about the absurd proposition that the Nordic countries are the happiest on earth--when they also have the highest use of SSRIs in the world. What kind of world is it wherein people are driven to lame pharmaceuticals to maintain their lives?
A lot of human history was influenced by drugs, tobacco, alcohol, marijuana, even wheat fungus (ergot)... the list is very long.
I'm almost willing to bet that that evolutionary crucial awakening of the "human" consciousness, that pivotal moment when our ancestors split from their apelike predecessors, was likely from the clash of normal consciousness and some drug or hallucinogen.
I am not a drug enthusiast or user outside of caffeine really, but I can empathize with people that want to do more, to go farther, to make the next evolutionary step in their own lifetimes, you know?
Why not let them see where they can reach?
I'm almost willing to bet that that evolutionary crucial awakening of the "human" consciousness, that pivotal moment when our ancestors split from their apelike predecessors, was likely from the clash of normal consciousness and some drug or hallucinogen.
I am not a drug enthusiast or user outside of caffeine really, but I can empathize with people that want to do more, to go farther, to make the next evolutionary step in their own lifetimes, you know?
Why not let them see where they can reach?
Caveat: I'm not a medical professional. But it's something I've spent tons of time wondering about myself. Personally, I think isolation is what kicked it off widespread. Humans are social creatures, always have been. And now we go to work, come home to our AC, watch TV alone or at best with a family member. And many of us don't even get the social interaction of work anymore.
Add to that the stress of work. Then the stress of politics, then the stress of social media, and now, lockdowns and doom/gloom news. It's no wonder people are at wits end.
Isolation is what media and tech companies want, as it means you'll spend more time 'engaging.' Keep checking your feed while watching the 24h news cycle. And in doing so further alienating people from one another.
I have no idea how this is resolved, but it certainly doesn't seem sustainable.
Add to that the stress of work. Then the stress of politics, then the stress of social media, and now, lockdowns and doom/gloom news. It's no wonder people are at wits end.
Isolation is what media and tech companies want, as it means you'll spend more time 'engaging.' Keep checking your feed while watching the 24h news cycle. And in doing so further alienating people from one another.
I have no idea how this is resolved, but it certainly doesn't seem sustainable.
I think that's a key reason for the rise of the wellness industry, the commercialisation of mindfulness and stoicism, as they provide a less chemicall dependent means of dealing with stress.
If I did not need to live in the modern world, I would not take drugs for my mental health. Unfortunately we’ve developed a world where at best nuerodivergent people face discrimination to at worst imprisonment in mental facilities and potentially even death (I have a family member who died from electro shock therapy in a mental hospital.)
Well, yes!
I feel you are an alternative-perception deprived individual.
It is an essential component of the human experience that we must at least try to understand the nature of perception, and experiment with our consciousness. There is nothing seriously wrong with this, except societies (and the State) condemnation of human nature.
I feel you are an alternative-perception deprived individual.
It is an essential component of the human experience that we must at least try to understand the nature of perception, and experiment with our consciousness. There is nothing seriously wrong with this, except societies (and the State) condemnation of human nature.
I can't help but wonder what kind of world we exist in, if people are driven to oversimplify situations, draw faulty conclusions due to the oversimplification on top of misunderstanding. It feels as if something is seriously wrong with education and society these days. People can no longer grasp involved, complex topics and engage with nuance and subtlety, as it were.
Heroin's not the same thing as asprin, nor the same as caffeinated coffee, for that matter. Lumping them all together and trying to draw conclusions thats society is fucked from that, when there are much louder, specific signals that could be addressed (but are more difficult), is questionable.
Approx what year would you characterize this "spike" as having started?
Heroin's not the same thing as asprin, nor the same as caffeinated coffee, for that matter. Lumping them all together and trying to draw conclusions thats society is fucked from that, when there are much louder, specific signals that could be addressed (but are more difficult), is questionable.
Approx what year would you characterize this "spike" as having started?
On the other hand, there are people who thrive in such a world.
In a Gaussian world, where suffering and thriving are the result of more or less independent random factors, this is fine.
As systemic interdependencies increase, the situation shifts to a Paretian world, a power law distribution that emerges from feedback loops.
In the end, there are few who thrive and many who suffer. Often because of the thriving of the former.
And just to depress the mood a bit and abandon all hope:
The Paretian world may be even more stable, as long as sufficient resources are available.
In a Gaussian world, where suffering and thriving are the result of more or less independent random factors, this is fine.
As systemic interdependencies increase, the situation shifts to a Paretian world, a power law distribution that emerges from feedback loops.
In the end, there are few who thrive and many who suffer. Often because of the thriving of the former.
And just to depress the mood a bit and abandon all hope:
The Paretian world may be even more stable, as long as sufficient resources are available.
Or people have been taking these drugs (especially stuff like ayahuasca) for thousand of years anyway, and the rise in diagnoses is because we diagnose more now (and also have more people, live longer etc.). Most of humanity throughout history lived very stressful lives, and those with severe problems mostly just died or suffered undiagnosed rather than getting help.
People have sought to change alter their consciousness through psychoactive substances for millenia, so I don't think the world we currently live in has too much to do with it.
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I don't think much about the human condition has changed. Rather, people are becoming more open about mental health issues, and we are developing ways to treat them. In the past, you'd just suffer in silence by yourself, or hope it got better on its own. I remember as a kid I had strep throat a lot. If I were born 200 years earlier, it would be accepted that sometimes you go blind or die from that. Every episode would have been a nail-biter for my parents. But in the age of antibiotics and 5 minute rapid tests, you go to the doctor and they cure it. Are we overreliant on drugs? Nope, we're just dying less from childhood diseases. I look at mental health issues through the same lens -- we're better at recognizing them and treating them now, so what looks like more people with mental health issues is actually the medical system helping more people.
(The same is true of pretty much anything. In the 1700s, there weren't a lot of people with Internet streams driving around looking for tornados. In the 2020s, there are, and as a result there are a lot more tornado reports. Does that mean the frequency of tornadoes is increasing? Nope. It just means the one that touches down in a field in the middle of nowhere is live-streamed from 20 separate angles, instead of going unnoticed by humanity as it would have many years ago.)
(The same is true of pretty much anything. In the 1700s, there weren't a lot of people with Internet streams driving around looking for tornados. In the 2020s, there are, and as a result there are a lot more tornado reports. Does that mean the frequency of tornadoes is increasing? Nope. It just means the one that touches down in a field in the middle of nowhere is live-streamed from 20 separate angles, instead of going unnoticed by humanity as it would have many years ago.)
It's quite popular in Washington as well.
I simultaneously believe two things are likely true:
1. Psychedelic research holds some interesting possibilities for advancing the fields of psychiatry and drug development.
2. Psychedelics are currently at near the "Peak of Inflated Expectations" in the Gartner hype cycle.
I've seen a lot of these glowing articles about Ayahuasca, LSD, and Mushrooms lately. The claims within are, frankly, out of control and verging on anti-psychiatry babble. Does anyone really believe that a single dose of Ayahuasca is "Like 10 Years of Therapy in One Evening" as stated in this article? Or that all of the people taking LSD, mushrooms, and other psychedelics before the current hype wave simply forgot to notice that these drugs were miracle cures?
I get the impression that many of these psychedelic success stories are deeply intertwined with the placebo effect. When people spend months or even years reading stories about psychedelics are miracle cures they build an anticipation that they, too, will be cured just as soon as they receive that psychedelic experience. Many of the people interviewed are investing thousands of dollars in these psychedelic retreats. They travel to distant locations where a shaman confirms their expectations that they are about to be cured. They then take a psychedelic and have a wild mental experience that confirms their expectations of something dramatic happening. For some time afterward, they are convinced they have been cured and proceed as if they are living a new life.
And hey, maybe it's working for some of them for a while! Maybe showering people in high expectations for a long time and then shocking their system with a psychedelic punch can cement those placebo effects for a while and kick-start their new look on life. But I think the hyperbole is also a strong filtering mechanism to select for those most susceptible to the placebo effect, similar to how Nigerian Prince scam e-mails are so over-the-top as to only select for the most gullible.
This would explain why past recreational users didn't notice the same idyllic cure-all psychiatric effects: They weren't primed to expect them. It also helps that many of these people are spending thousands of dollars to do this and being encouraged by people posing as professionals:
> In February 2020, Whalen spent $3,000 to attend a seven-day ayahuasca retreat at the Soltara Healing Center in Costa Rica. On four of the seven nights, she participated in ayahuasca ceremonies with 16 other participants and two shamans.
The expectations surrounding this psychedelic hype are so deep into hyperbole that they seem to self-select for people who are believers. For example:
> But Craig had read about a 2004 Johns Hopkins study on psilocybin, which is chemically similar to DMT. He found it "truly fascinating" that people could take a single psychedelic dose and rate it years later as among the most profound experiences of their lives, on par with getting married and having children.
Again, we're detached from reality. Estimates of lifetime psychedelic use in the United States approach 10% of the population. Does 10% of the population really rank their past psychedelic experiences as being on par with getting married or having children? I seriously doubt it. These sound bites are starting to feel like weird pro-drug propaganda that has latched on to a thread of hope that drugs can have positive effect.
If this is anything like past hype cycle topics, we're in for a "trough of disillusionment" where the media takes the other side and starts demonizing psychedelics. Instead of glowing stories of people being cured, we'll be getting stories about the sketchy Ayahuasca retreat operations charging people $3K and making them sick, or the people who tried psychedelics that ended up triggering extended depressive or anxiety episodes (which is a thing that happens, no matter how much anyone insists these are perfectly safe).
Take these stories with a grain of salt.
1. Psychedelic research holds some interesting possibilities for advancing the fields of psychiatry and drug development.
2. Psychedelics are currently at near the "Peak of Inflated Expectations" in the Gartner hype cycle.
I've seen a lot of these glowing articles about Ayahuasca, LSD, and Mushrooms lately. The claims within are, frankly, out of control and verging on anti-psychiatry babble. Does anyone really believe that a single dose of Ayahuasca is "Like 10 Years of Therapy in One Evening" as stated in this article? Or that all of the people taking LSD, mushrooms, and other psychedelics before the current hype wave simply forgot to notice that these drugs were miracle cures?
I get the impression that many of these psychedelic success stories are deeply intertwined with the placebo effect. When people spend months or even years reading stories about psychedelics are miracle cures they build an anticipation that they, too, will be cured just as soon as they receive that psychedelic experience. Many of the people interviewed are investing thousands of dollars in these psychedelic retreats. They travel to distant locations where a shaman confirms their expectations that they are about to be cured. They then take a psychedelic and have a wild mental experience that confirms their expectations of something dramatic happening. For some time afterward, they are convinced they have been cured and proceed as if they are living a new life.
And hey, maybe it's working for some of them for a while! Maybe showering people in high expectations for a long time and then shocking their system with a psychedelic punch can cement those placebo effects for a while and kick-start their new look on life. But I think the hyperbole is also a strong filtering mechanism to select for those most susceptible to the placebo effect, similar to how Nigerian Prince scam e-mails are so over-the-top as to only select for the most gullible.
This would explain why past recreational users didn't notice the same idyllic cure-all psychiatric effects: They weren't primed to expect them. It also helps that many of these people are spending thousands of dollars to do this and being encouraged by people posing as professionals:
> In February 2020, Whalen spent $3,000 to attend a seven-day ayahuasca retreat at the Soltara Healing Center in Costa Rica. On four of the seven nights, she participated in ayahuasca ceremonies with 16 other participants and two shamans.
The expectations surrounding this psychedelic hype are so deep into hyperbole that they seem to self-select for people who are believers. For example:
> But Craig had read about a 2004 Johns Hopkins study on psilocybin, which is chemically similar to DMT. He found it "truly fascinating" that people could take a single psychedelic dose and rate it years later as among the most profound experiences of their lives, on par with getting married and having children.
Again, we're detached from reality. Estimates of lifetime psychedelic use in the United States approach 10% of the population. Does 10% of the population really rank their past psychedelic experiences as being on par with getting married or having children? I seriously doubt it. These sound bites are starting to feel like weird pro-drug propaganda that has latched on to a thread of hope that drugs can have positive effect.
If this is anything like past hype cycle topics, we're in for a "trough of disillusionment" where the media takes the other side and starts demonizing psychedelics. Instead of glowing stories of people being cured, we'll be getting stories about the sketchy Ayahuasca retreat operations charging people $3K and making them sick, or the people who tried psychedelics that ended up triggering extended depressive or anxiety episodes (which is a thing that happens, no matter how much anyone insists these are perfectly safe).
Take these stories with a grain of salt.
One of the things that psychedelics teach you, is that what your mind perceives to be reality, is your reality at that point in time. In other words, as conscious beings experiencing the world through qualia, the phrase "it's all in your mind" is deeply true. The world as experienced during a trip does not match the cold, concrete day-to-day external world, but these psychedelic experiences do not interact with that world, they interact with the soft, malleable, subjective internal world.
If these people have built up an expectation that psychedelic use will trigger a revelatory change in perspective, and it does - whether by placebo or neurochemical means - then isn't it fair to say that they are working as intended?
If these people have built up an expectation that psychedelic use will trigger a revelatory change in perspective, and it does - whether by placebo or neurochemical means - then isn't it fair to say that they are working as intended?
"Does anyone really believe that a single dose of Ayahuasca is "Like 10 Years of Therapy in One Evening" as stated in this article?"
"Does 10% of the population really rank their past psychedelic experiences as being on par with getting married or having children? I seriously doubt it."
Yes, for some people
"Does 10% of the population really rank their past psychedelic experiences as being on par with getting married or having children? I seriously doubt it."
Yes, for some people
Man, I remember doing shrooms in Amsterdam, it was such a great time. At some point I had this feeling as if all of my worries were “figured out” and all that was left was a sense of calm optimism about the future. Great experience, would recommend. Maybe this is something that I should do once per year as a ritual: go up there, eat a bag of mushrooms, wander around, feel grateful for existing and at peace with the world.
I definitely think it should be a ritual, instead of merely recreational (for the fun of it). I think of shrooms like an intentional reset button.
I don't do crazy amounts and use the experience as a way to explore my life and my emotions, often with my wife.
I don't do crazy amounts and use the experience as a way to explore my life and my emotions, often with my wife.
It’s nice that you can do it with your wife, having a trusted close person to keep you company probably enriches the experience.
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Focusing only in the substance w/ pharmaceutical interest, with a reductionist view, may be missing the point IMO.
In the Amazon basin you'll find different tribes, with different ceremonies, where ayahuasca may be administered in different ways and associated with other things (e.g. "rapé"), not to mention how the particular shaman (or "pajé") conducts the ceremony and the overall setting (being in the middle of the jungle, at night, is an experience in itself if you're not used to it).
In the Amazon basin you'll find different tribes, with different ceremonies, where ayahuasca may be administered in different ways and associated with other things (e.g. "rapé"), not to mention how the particular shaman (or "pajé") conducts the ceremony and the overall setting (being in the middle of the jungle, at night, is an experience in itself if you're not used to it).
> Today, the Van Tuinens said, they're healthy, sober and doing much better. They live together in their family's Waterbury home, where they have a Sunday ritual of hiking in the woods, meditating and discussing their emotions. Last year they founded a nonprofit, Cultivating Connections, to help other Vermonters struggling with addiction, mental illness and past trauma.
Hiking in the woods should not be underestimated. Every positive outcome described in the article can flow from peeling oneself away from a screen, leaving an artificial environment, getting lost every once in a while, and moving one's body toward a goal.
Hiking in the woods should not be underestimated. Every positive outcome described in the article can flow from peeling oneself away from a screen, leaving an artificial environment, getting lost every once in a while, and moving one's body toward a goal.
Be sure to read to the end, the conclusion takes some wind out of the sails of the ayuhuasca cure all argument.
> 'Most Proficient Mind' Neither Rory nor Ryan Van Tuinen took a straight and unwavering path to recovery after his ayahuasca experience. Since Seven Days first interviewed them in January 2020, Rory quit methadone treatments. He relapsed, overdosed twice and nearly died before checking himself into rehab. Despite those setbacks, he's been off opioids and methadone again since April 2020, and he credits ayahuasca with saving his life.
Ryan has quit alcohol and all prescription pharmaceuticals; he said he barely even drinks coffee anymore.
"My habits with substances are healthier than they've ever been," he said. "For the first time in my life, I feel like my sober mind is the most proficient mind to handle life."
Such reports are powerful — and, of course, anecdotal. Despite his belief in the potential benefits of psychedelics, Johnson, the Johns Hopkins professor and researcher, warned of "selling some snake oil" based on limited data. He believes that any therapeutic use of psychedelics should be "solidly based in empirical science."
> 'Most Proficient Mind' Neither Rory nor Ryan Van Tuinen took a straight and unwavering path to recovery after his ayahuasca experience. Since Seven Days first interviewed them in January 2020, Rory quit methadone treatments. He relapsed, overdosed twice and nearly died before checking himself into rehab. Despite those setbacks, he's been off opioids and methadone again since April 2020, and he credits ayahuasca with saving his life.
Ryan has quit alcohol and all prescription pharmaceuticals; he said he barely even drinks coffee anymore.
"My habits with substances are healthier than they've ever been," he said. "For the first time in my life, I feel like my sober mind is the most proficient mind to handle life."
Such reports are powerful — and, of course, anecdotal. Despite his belief in the potential benefits of psychedelics, Johnson, the Johns Hopkins professor and researcher, warned of "selling some snake oil" based on limited data. He believes that any therapeutic use of psychedelics should be "solidly based in empirical science."
That might feel like ayahuasca wasn't the cure-all, but hear me out.
I was an absolute alcoholic in beginning of 2018 (and for 10+ yeas before that). I knew I was probably going to die really early from drinking, but I had no motivation to stop. I did not see it happening at all.
Then I had few psychedelic trips with friend on mountains, and everything changed. I was still an alcoholic, I still drank way too much. But suddenly I had all the motivation needed, I knew I had to stop, I wanted to stop, I knew I will stop. If I could explain the experience, I had seen far in the future the ways my life could go, and at that point I made the easiest choice ever, that I'll have to pick the sober route.
It didn't happen instantly, I was still addicted, I had a lot of setbacks, alcohol is powerful drug. It took me few years, but now I've limited my alcohol use to tiny tiny percentage of what it used to be.
I know it was the psychedelics, because how my thinking changed in that special time, a complete 180 turn, biggest part being the night of the best LSD trip I had. If you were to ask my friends, they would not attribute it to psychedelics. In their mind I was alcoholic, went to mountains, came back alcoholic, and then few years later wasn't really drinking anymore. They'd be wrong, but I can understand how they feel that way.
I was an absolute alcoholic in beginning of 2018 (and for 10+ yeas before that). I knew I was probably going to die really early from drinking, but I had no motivation to stop. I did not see it happening at all.
Then I had few psychedelic trips with friend on mountains, and everything changed. I was still an alcoholic, I still drank way too much. But suddenly I had all the motivation needed, I knew I had to stop, I wanted to stop, I knew I will stop. If I could explain the experience, I had seen far in the future the ways my life could go, and at that point I made the easiest choice ever, that I'll have to pick the sober route.
It didn't happen instantly, I was still addicted, I had a lot of setbacks, alcohol is powerful drug. It took me few years, but now I've limited my alcohol use to tiny tiny percentage of what it used to be.
I know it was the psychedelics, because how my thinking changed in that special time, a complete 180 turn, biggest part being the night of the best LSD trip I had. If you were to ask my friends, they would not attribute it to psychedelics. In their mind I was alcoholic, went to mountains, came back alcoholic, and then few years later wasn't really drinking anymore. They'd be wrong, but I can understand how they feel that way.
Taking a psychedelic can lead to understandings that might otherwise not be available in other ways (in your time/culture/location) for many reasons. A single experience that 'transcends human understanding' may unlock long-lasting solutions.
Getting out of Plato's cave is not soon forgotten.
Getting out of Plato's cave is not soon forgotten.