Misbehaving Microsoft Teams ad brings down the entire Windows 11 desktop(arstechnica.com)
arstechnica.com
Misbehaving Microsoft Teams ad brings down the entire Windows 11 desktop
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/09/misbehaving-microsoft-teams-ad-brings-down-the-entire-windows-11-desktop
204 comments
This is in a pre-release build. I'm not happy to hear about it, but in reality Windows 10 has been incredibly reliable. Can't remember the last time I saw a crash to be honest, and I use it for 8-10 hours a day most of the time.
You mean the same windows 10 that I never bother to boot into because every time I do various services decide to do so many indexing and updating tasks that it pegs the hard drive at 100% for hours?
I should be able to launch windows every couple of months without having to wait so long to do anything that I forget why I even booted into windows in the first place.
I should be able to launch windows every couple of months without having to wait so long to do anything that I forget why I even booted into windows in the first place.
This drives me insane. I try to boot up and play a game, only to find my FPS cut in half due to some background d operation that Windows has determined critical. But not critical enough to tell me beforehand.
Not to mention the fake fullscreen mode that is actually windowed borderless with the compositor disabled.
You used to be able to "disable fullscreen optimizations" in properties to get real exclusive fullscreen mode, but now you have to edit a registry entry for that binary, and even that doesn't work most of the time.
I have this beautiful 144hz monitor for a reason: latency sucks.
You used to be able to "disable fullscreen optimizations" in properties to get real exclusive fullscreen mode, but now you have to edit a registry entry for that binary, and even that doesn't work most of the time.
I have this beautiful 144hz monitor for a reason: latency sucks.
Same. Windows is literally just a Fortnite OS, and it manages to mess up often enough to be a problem.
All mainstream games targetting a reliable OS (Linux?) will be coming soon if they continue this way.
No, I think they mean the stable Windows 10 that pushes Xbox, Skype, Microsoft Office, SkyDrive, and Candy Crush onto you.
The one that "helpfully" resets default applications and privacy settings to the ones Microsoft wants you to use, and then whines at you (or gives vague threats) when you do choose something else.
The one that turned logging in from pretty much an instant thing to a random wait while you get a "We're just setting things up for you" message on a pulsing background, and not-at-all-reassuring messages that "All your files are right where you left them".
The one that "helpfully" resets default applications and privacy settings to the ones Microsoft wants you to use, and then whines at you (or gives vague threats) when you do choose something else.
The one that turned logging in from pretty much an instant thing to a random wait while you get a "We're just setting things up for you" message on a pulsing background, and not-at-all-reassuring messages that "All your files are right where you left them".
windows education edition doesn't have ads, or candy crush.
That's of limited help.
It doesn't apply to anyone who's not eligible for that edition, isn't aware of it's existence, is just using the version that came with their device, or needs some specific feature in the 'Pro' variants (or whatever it's called now).
I remember having to bump up an edition from Home to get Bitlocker support for full-disk-encryption and something else.
e: While I've now migrated off Windows for a few years now, I still occasionally have to help family members who're wondering why X or Y no longer works, because MS decided to reset preferences.
It doesn't apply to anyone who's not eligible for that edition, isn't aware of it's existence, is just using the version that came with their device, or needs some specific feature in the 'Pro' variants (or whatever it's called now).
I remember having to bump up an edition from Home to get Bitlocker support for full-disk-encryption and something else.
e: While I've now migrated off Windows for a few years now, I still occasionally have to help family members who're wondering why X or Y no longer works, because MS decided to reset preferences.
There is an education variant of every windows version. Home education, pro education etc.
Fine, okay, but what's the eligibility criteria?
As far as I can tell you have to go through an Academic Licensing service, which would immediately tell me to go away since I'm not a school/university/whatever.
It's simply not available to most people.
As far as I can tell you have to go through an Academic Licensing service, which would immediately tell me to go away since I'm not a school/university/whatever.
It's simply not available to most people.
My spider senses are detecting sarcasm.
No, it's not your computer if you run Windows on it.
The only way for you to get control over your computer is to run Linux, and today that's very easy.
The only way for you to get control over your computer is to run Linux, and today that's very easy.
> but in reality Windows 10 has been incredibly reliable
True, but it depends on which component. For a year it couldn't sort and move symbols on the desktop without bugs.
On some systems there is a "Microsoft Compatibility Telemetry" process that will take all your CPU. Don't know, MS could farm bitcoins for all we know.
There are a lot of small issues, but yes, overall it got more dependent, although I think Win7 was stable as well.
Still, overall it doesn't really improve, it mostly gets worse. The infestation with ads shouldn't be allowed in any operating system. These are ideas from guys Steve Jobs warned us about.
True, but it depends on which component. For a year it couldn't sort and move symbols on the desktop without bugs.
On some systems there is a "Microsoft Compatibility Telemetry" process that will take all your CPU. Don't know, MS could farm bitcoins for all we know.
There are a lot of small issues, but yes, overall it got more dependent, although I think Win7 was stable as well.
Still, overall it doesn't really improve, it mostly gets worse. The infestation with ads shouldn't be allowed in any operating system. These are ideas from guys Steve Jobs warned us about.
> ... we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day.
I'm not included in this "we". And I definitely pay a price for that by sacrificing some convenience. I'm sure the price would be lower if more people were willing to make the same sacrifices.
I can understand most end users being okay with that. Most are not educated to know the problems or alternatives. But developers should consider how contributions in code or money could improve competition and encourage development of better software for everyone.
I'm not included in this "we". And I definitely pay a price for that by sacrificing some convenience. I'm sure the price would be lower if more people were willing to make the same sacrifices.
I can understand most end users being okay with that. Most are not educated to know the problems or alternatives. But developers should consider how contributions in code or money could improve competition and encourage development of better software for everyone.
I, on the other hand, would need to sacrifice a lot of convenience to be included in this "we"
Isn't it true for a lot of things we rely on every day ?
Remembering the days of commuting by train, wether the train will come on time or not was a lottery. Traveling by car, accidents, jams, not being able to park etc. are mundane.
Elevator/escalators being in maintenance was also a common sight.
Things being broken feels part of life, and we learn to plan ahead, have alternatives or deal with it when there is nothing to help.
I think computers and remote services entering our everyday lives is part of that.
Remembering the days of commuting by train, wether the train will come on time or not was a lottery. Traveling by car, accidents, jams, not being able to park etc. are mundane.
Elevator/escalators being in maintenance was also a common sight.
Things being broken feels part of life, and we learn to plan ahead, have alternatives or deal with it when there is nothing to help.
I think computers and remote services entering our everyday lives is part of that.
A computer is a tool. You buy it to perform what it is advertised to do, just like a socket wrench set. But unlike a socket wrench set, the manufacturer could break into your home in the night and replace your rachet and make it incompatible with your old sockets that still work.
Microsoft Teams is a service, so more like trains or taxis in the physical world. Tomorrow train operators could all be on strike and we'd just be SOL.
I think the change that people haven't completely caught on with is a lot of digital tools becoming services. A bit like how enterprises used to own printers, and those are now rented appliances paid by month or by printed page.
I think the change that people haven't completely caught on with is a lot of digital tools becoming services. A bit like how enterprises used to own printers, and those are now rented appliances paid by month or by printed page.
Microsoft teams is two things:
1. An online service with a private API endpoint.
2. A client program that communicates over that API endpoint.
So this is more like having a car (client program) that the company owns parked in your driveway (your OS), and you can't drive on the company's private roads (the service API) without using that specific car, oh and the company is allowed to repave your driveway whenever they like.
I would much rather have my own car and my own driveway, thank-you-very-much.
1. An online service with a private API endpoint.
2. A client program that communicates over that API endpoint.
So this is more like having a car (client program) that the company owns parked in your driveway (your OS), and you can't drive on the company's private roads (the service API) without using that specific car, oh and the company is allowed to repave your driveway whenever they like.
I would much rather have my own car and my own driveway, thank-you-very-much.
Teams is not a service. Is a program used to talk to other people, like buying tickets for the train or talking with the passengers. Teams has to run in an environment when it is not alone. You need to get on the train, search for a place etc.
TBH teams behaves more like a service than like a program. Using teams is like talking to somebody at the other end of the train.
> It's so mind boggling to me that we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day.
I'm not OK with it. It's one of the many reasons why I stopped using Windows on my own machines a decade or so ago. Sadly, though, I still have to use it at work, and every workday, I'm reminded why I stopped using Windows.
I'm not OK with it. It's one of the many reasons why I stopped using Windows on my own machines a decade or so ago. Sadly, though, I still have to use it at work, and every workday, I'm reminded why I stopped using Windows.
Not being glib, but have you ever tried just getting rid of your laptop, smartphone, internet, TV, etc?
They certainly add the occasional convenience, but it's actually really easy to go a week or three at a time without any of it.
That's always an option, and it's a fairly good one if it's making you feel how you describe.
They certainly add the occasional convenience, but it's actually really easy to go a week or three at a time without any of it.
That's always an option, and it's a fairly good one if it's making you feel how you describe.
Getting rid of my laptop and internet for a few weeks and I expect to make a living how?
This is part of the problem. People feel trapped in their ecosystems. Despite the value added, the technology is suffocating a lot of people (think broader than just "Tech Workers" too).
i've got a desktop computer at my office. it's still "having a computer", but i find there's a good difference between having a computer that you think of as "yours" versus a computer that's just a work tool.
i've also got a laptop right now, but i've gone years at a time without having a personal computer at home. it's perfectly doable.
i've also got a laptop right now, but i've gone years at a time without having a personal computer at home. it's perfectly doable.
Um, oh how I've dreamt of this reality... despite all the problems they have caused, computers are just too damn useful to give up on. We just need to learn to control the larger system that produces them better.
So your advice is to throw up your hands, back off from technology entirely, cede all territory to bigcos, and just sit back and watch them run rampant right over everyone else too. Stepping away is not stepping "out", there is no "out" anymore.
I'm gonna come camp out on your front porch, it's fine ok? Not to be glib but if this bothers you have you considered just moving out of your house? Maybe house living is just not for you man, just walk away.
I'm gonna come camp out on your front porch, it's fine ok? Not to be glib but if this bothers you have you considered just moving out of your house? Maybe house living is just not for you man, just walk away.
I have spent many a summer at a cabin with no internet, potable water or plumbing. I love it, it's a beautiful time. It's one of my favorite places to be in the whole wide world.
That being said I also love technology. It's fucking magic and I'm a mage. I have immense power over one of the most effective forces in the world and I spend a depressing amount of it to circumvent annoyances forced upon me by people trying to part me from my money. It's so frustrating because I love what technology is and what it can enable for people, and I hate how trash the baseline is, and I especially hate most people don't even know how good things could be if we y'know had open standards and shit. I know that there isn't an easy fix, but my frustration is none the less valid. So much of humanity's effort in tech is spent on bullshit that doesn't add value at best, and is actively detrimental to all but a few humans on average.
That being said I also love technology. It's fucking magic and I'm a mage. I have immense power over one of the most effective forces in the world and I spend a depressing amount of it to circumvent annoyances forced upon me by people trying to part me from my money. It's so frustrating because I love what technology is and what it can enable for people, and I hate how trash the baseline is, and I especially hate most people don't even know how good things could be if we y'know had open standards and shit. I know that there isn't an easy fix, but my frustration is none the less valid. So much of humanity's effort in tech is spent on bullshit that doesn't add value at best, and is actively detrimental to all but a few humans on average.
> we're okay with this level of uncertainty
no, you are not the customer.. executive management, legal and finance are the target customer
no, you are not the customer.. executive management, legal and finance are the target customer
I sometimes like to joke that seeing a company push for Windows / Teams, and, more generally, software that fights against you instead of helping you do your job must be some kind of signaling. "Look how well-off we are, we can afford to pay our employees full-time while they only work half the time".
Which linux phone?
I’m not ok with it. Nothing in my house runs Windows and even my phone runs Linux with a fairly normal X11 DE at this point.
At work all the coorperate crapware makes the machine so unstable anyway Microsoft’s malware would just be one more thing. It’s a broken window (heh) situation.
At work all the coorperate crapware makes the machine so unstable anyway Microsoft’s malware would just be one more thing. It’s a broken window (heh) situation.
I installed OpenBSD about 10 years ago and have used nothing else on my personal computers since then. It does occasionally have breaking changes in its updates, but they never happen without you taking action to initiate them.
The idea that we're OK with random popups, feature promotions, nags to use this or that or enable some setting, and outright advertising on our computers is just mind-boggling.
The idea that we're OK with random popups, feature promotions, nags to use this or that or enable some setting, and outright advertising on our computers is just mind-boggling.
Why did you choose this very OS? Considering there are many of BSDs and Linux as well.
HERE BE DRAGONS.
From the article comes this nugget of knowledge.
quote This problem combines two of latter-day Windows' most annoying tendencies. First, the operating system relentlessly promotes and prioritizes Microsoft's first-party apps and services. Second, the operating system talks to Microsoft's servers in the background to report diagnostic data, fetch advertisements, and even download Windows Store apps without asking. As Aleksandersen correctly points out, these non-essential background processes shouldn't be capable of breaking core functionality. unquote
From the article comes this nugget of knowledge.
quote This problem combines two of latter-day Windows' most annoying tendencies. First, the operating system relentlessly promotes and prioritizes Microsoft's first-party apps and services. Second, the operating system talks to Microsoft's servers in the background to report diagnostic data, fetch advertisements, and even download Windows Store apps without asking. As Aleksandersen correctly points out, these non-essential background processes shouldn't be capable of breaking core functionality. unquote
> Second, the operating system talks to Microsoft's servers in the background to report diagnostic data, fetch advertisements, and even download Windows Store apps without asking.
Microsoft has learned nothing from Solar Winds. Time for some popcorn. It's funny how the concept of security has slipped from "no open ports and no default services" to "backdoors (automatic download and install) and telemetry (data exfiltration without permission -also backdoor).
Microsoft has learned nothing from Solar Winds. Time for some popcorn. It's funny how the concept of security has slipped from "no open ports and no default services" to "backdoors (automatic download and install) and telemetry (data exfiltration without permission -also backdoor).
To clarify, though, this is just an issue for people who are deliberately getting preview builds (aka beta testers), correct? The article feels pretty click-baity with that critical detail not part of the title.
This is like driving some prototype car and having the brakes go out when your tail light burns out. It's a serious concern because it's not something that should be able to happen, with a sane design. Sure, it's click-baity, but it's also insanity.
I've been on insider edition beta versions of windows for years and while I don't mind occasional hiccups stuff like this made me get rid of it. It was fine for a while but ever since the 20202H update it's been one major issue after another.
Correct, this is a beta build.
With that said, I get that things go bad in betas - this is the point of a beta release - but this still feels egregiously bad. It also highlights the direction Windows is going, which is cause for criticism even if this worked perfectly.
With that said, I get that things go bad in betas - this is the point of a beta release - but this still feels egregiously bad. It also highlights the direction Windows is going, which is cause for criticism even if this worked perfectly.
It is yes, but it shows deeper issues where the way they're designing the OS allows things that don't matter at all to break core systems.
> Windows 11 desktop
It's right there.
Sure, it relies on the surrounding context that Windows 11 is in beta, but that's pretty common knowledge.
It's right there.
Sure, it relies on the surrounding context that Windows 11 is in beta, but that's pretty common knowledge.
internet downloaded ads shouldn't be able to break your computers.
like, even in a buggy system, it shouldn't happened, and there is clearly not enough isolation, something that isn't gonna get fixed in a release candidate and be prepared for this to somehow turn into a ring0 exploit later down the line.
like, even in a buggy system, it shouldn't happened, and there is clearly not enough isolation, something that isn't gonna get fixed in a release candidate and be prepared for this to somehow turn into a ring0 exploit later down the line.
Even more than that, your OS should not be showing you ads at all, let alone downloading them. The problem here isn't that the facility went wrong, it's that the facility exists.
One bug I've been hitting for a couple of years on Windows 10:
If the computer starts with a working Internet connection, but then you lose Internet, Start Menu search just stops working during net downtime. Meaning I type some app name like "calc" in the Start Menu search box and nothing appears! Which is absolutely ridiculous, I can't search for locally installed apps, or Windows settings. Even if I disabled Cortana and Internet search in the Statt Menu (or maybe because of it?)
And I failed to Google the problem since all the keywords combinations I tried inevitably lead to some article on how to disable Internet search in the Start Menu, so I have no idea if I'm the only one with this bug.
If the computer starts with a working Internet connection, but then you lose Internet, Start Menu search just stops working during net downtime. Meaning I type some app name like "calc" in the Start Menu search box and nothing appears! Which is absolutely ridiculous, I can't search for locally installed apps, or Windows settings. Even if I disabled Cortana and Internet search in the Statt Menu (or maybe because of it?)
And I failed to Google the problem since all the keywords combinations I tried inevitably lead to some article on how to disable Internet search in the Start Menu, so I have no idea if I'm the only one with this bug.
Can't be sure, and forgive me if this is already what you mean by disabling "Internet Search", but I suspect you are experiencing this because of Bing's involvement in the start menu search. To fix it, you have to regedit some stuff:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/f09184/how_to_bl...
I had to use the registry key as well because MS broke the GPO (I would say on purpose but anyone who is in a position to mess with GPOs knows how to edit registry keys with it as well) but it really does get rid of it for good.
For me, in Windows 10, I can type "calc" into the search menu and it will recommend and open the calendar app instead of the calculator app 2 out of 5 times.
I will search for an app that I have installed and instead of opening the app it will open a bing search for the app that I have installed.
It's so infuriating that if there were a M$ rep within arm reach I might be tempted to do violence towards them.
I will search for an app that I have installed and instead of opening the app it will open a bing search for the app that I have installed.
It's so infuriating that if there were a M$ rep within arm reach I might be tempted to do violence towards them.
The search function in Windows 10 is pathetic. It almost seems like an April fool's joke that was left in place for too long. What is double stupid is that MS already had a working search built into the shell in Windows 7. It's like they don't understand that no one ever woke up one day and thought to themselves, "I hope I could search the web using the start menu in Windows".
I would suspect that someone on the Bing team woke up one day and thought to themself "I know exactly how to increase our search metrics"
From a command prompt (you shouldn't need admin rights), run "REG ADD HKCU\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Explorer /v DisableSearchBoxSuggestions /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f", which disables the web search suggestions in the registry. After restarting Windows Explorer (or logging off and back on), you should have search work how you'd expect.
Nice. That's super helpful!
Old school people use Win + R -> calc -> enter
[deleted]
Haven't happened to me on my desktop. Maybe try updating? File a bug report?
The start menu web search is actually really good for quickly searching for things.
The start menu web search is actually really good for quickly searching for things.
> Haven't happened to me on my desktop. Maybe try updating? File a bug report?
You funny. Have you ever encounted a Win 10 bug ? Did you find any fix ? For example: mouse clicks extra when the mouse button is pressed (drag) or double clicks when you single click. Or Title bar and menubar/ribbon dissapears in multimonitor environment.
You funny. Have you ever encounted a Win 10 bug ? Did you find any fix ? For example: mouse clicks extra when the mouse button is pressed (drag) or double clicks when you single click. Or Title bar and menubar/ribbon dissapears in multimonitor environment.
Never encountered any of these, but there was a bug in the taskbar search box. I reported it and it stopped happening (I forgot to disable automatic updates)
i have hit this and it drives me nuts. not in a while though, maybe i havent tried when net down lately
There used to be the "Windows tax" that the rest of Microsoft had to pay[1], now I guess that there is the "Rest-of-Microsoft tax" that Windows has to pay.
[1] https://www.ft.com/content/9e09d082-b5d3-11e3-a1bd-00144feab...
[1] https://www.ft.com/content/9e09d082-b5d3-11e3-a1bd-00144feab...
That’s funny considering Microsoft is so tax averse when it comes to its own finances.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-irs-decided-to-get-to...
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-irs-decided-to-get-to...
This is the achilles heel of Microsoft. They will cannibalize a successful part of their business in order to subsidize/bootstrap/launch or even straight-up force the adoption of new service.
Every Windows release gets progressively worse when it comes to Microsoft's integrated services and how obtrusive they are.
The cherry on top is the fact that Windows 10 Pro is $199 and yet you'll still feel like you are flying Sprit airlines when you boot it up.
Every Windows release gets progressively worse when it comes to Microsoft's integrated services and how obtrusive they are.
The cherry on top is the fact that Windows 10 Pro is $199 and yet you'll still feel like you are flying Sprit airlines when you boot it up.
It's such a shame too. Windows 10 is a great modern OS that everyone expected to last and be built upon, but they just had to go and push out a new "modernized" version and fill it up with ads.
I wonder what you pay to be in the Windows 10 Pro start menu and if it's really worth selling out their professional userbase.
I wonder what you pay to be in the Windows 10 Pro start menu and if it's really worth selling out their professional userbase.
I really wish people would stop using the word "modern" in marketing rhetoric as if it was a good thing, because more often than not they're using it and other buzzwords because they don't have any better compelling reasons to convince you to use their product.
No, I do not care that the newer version is more "modern", "stylish", "sleek", "clean", or any other number of useless buzzwordy adjectives. Tell me concretely what's actually better about it and how it will improve my (my, not your!) "experience". An OS should not be a fashion statement nor an advertising platform. It's a tool people use to get real work done.
No, I do not care that the newer version is more "modern", "stylish", "sleek", "clean", or any other number of useless buzzwordy adjectives. Tell me concretely what's actually better about it and how it will improve my (my, not your!) "experience". An OS should not be a fashion statement nor an advertising platform. It's a tool people use to get real work done.
monkey paw curls
Introducing Windows 12, the worlds most powerful post-modern computing experience.
Introducing Windows 12, the worlds most powerful post-modern computing experience.
If you think Microsoft Bob was whimsical, hold on to your seat.
Is Windows 10 really that good?
It's been some time now, but I still remember the first time I upgraded away from Windows 7 and feeling disappointed.
Since then my hardware is massively more powerful, but I'm still to be convinced my current Windows 10 setup is better than that older Windows 7 setup.
It's been some time now, but I still remember the first time I upgraded away from Windows 7 and feeling disappointed.
Since then my hardware is massively more powerful, but I'm still to be convinced my current Windows 10 setup is better than that older Windows 7 setup.
I know two people who bought similar new but low specced laptops that came from factory with windows 10 about 10 months ago.
Their laptops got visibly progressively slower. Considering what I read here, I asked them if they installed many software. They said they use the laptops for work only and haven't installed anything beyond office and antivirus. I asked them to take a look. After minutes after turning on, windows said it was installing updates... we waited... the battery went kapuft... we plugged the powerbrick, turned it on again and waited... windows said it was installing updates... after a new reboot and 40 minutes total of waiting I just gave up.
Now, this is not how an EXPENSIVE OS should behave. An expensive OS that behaves like this and still has ads is definitely something I'd only use if there was no other choice.
Their laptops got visibly progressively slower. Considering what I read here, I asked them if they installed many software. They said they use the laptops for work only and haven't installed anything beyond office and antivirus. I asked them to take a look. After minutes after turning on, windows said it was installing updates... we waited... the battery went kapuft... we plugged the powerbrick, turned it on again and waited... windows said it was installing updates... after a new reboot and 40 minutes total of waiting I just gave up.
Now, this is not how an EXPENSIVE OS should behave. An expensive OS that behaves like this and still has ads is definitely something I'd only use if there was no other choice.
The first thing you do with a laptop (or any pre-built PC for that matter) is wipe it clean and install a fresh OS.
The most likely culprit for the slow-downs is OEM crap pushed on the device, not Windows itself.
In my personal experience (I'm running 6 Windows PCs in the house for the family and myself) I never had any issue with Windows 10 becoming slower or updates getting in the way or any ads for that matter (except when they switched to the new Edge where a notification of sorts showed up once after boot and was easily dismissed).
For full disclosure, I am running PiHole on my network so it's possible that's somehow blocking some ad-related activity (though I'm yet to see any evidence of actual advertisement being shown in the OS except for stuff about integrated software like Edge and now Teams - hoping this doesn't change with Windows 11). I'm also running fairly powerful machines (nothing older than 4 years, even the kids have beefier laptops), so don't have experience with old / slow machines.
The most likely culprit for the slow-downs is OEM crap pushed on the device, not Windows itself.
In my personal experience (I'm running 6 Windows PCs in the house for the family and myself) I never had any issue with Windows 10 becoming slower or updates getting in the way or any ads for that matter (except when they switched to the new Edge where a notification of sorts showed up once after boot and was easily dismissed).
For full disclosure, I am running PiHole on my network so it's possible that's somehow blocking some ad-related activity (though I'm yet to see any evidence of actual advertisement being shown in the OS except for stuff about integrated software like Edge and now Teams - hoping this doesn't change with Windows 11). I'm also running fairly powerful machines (nothing older than 4 years, even the kids have beefier laptops), so don't have experience with old / slow machines.
Windows 10 is a really great OS marred by unfortunate business choices: ads, telemetry, settings scattered to the four winds, everything being so frickin' bloated you need 8 GiB and an SSD just to run Word acceptably.
It's funny because Windows went from "too unstable to be relied upon for anything" in the 9x era to "death by a thousand papercuts" today. It's like it's ruled by a law of conservation of awesome: for every feature there must be an equal and opposite misfeature.
It's funny because Windows went from "too unstable to be relied upon for anything" in the 9x era to "death by a thousand papercuts" today. It's like it's ruled by a law of conservation of awesome: for every feature there must be an equal and opposite misfeature.
Windows 10 is better at HiDPI support, and worse at performance on low-spec hardware (from what I hear on HN, and my experience with a 5 year old laptop which I don't know if it's my machine and drivers, or Windows 10 itself).
Windows Terminal is arguably the only feature worth upgrading for in the last decade. I'm tempted to say two, but there were a number of important security improvements to go along with the UI regressions in that era.
> Is Windows 10 really that good?
Compared to Windows 8, yes. Compared to most anything else, no.
Compared to Windows 8, yes. Compared to most anything else, no.
They launched it at -90/10 and it's up to 7/10.
Like flutter?
Edit: Seriously, they fixed 5000 flaming bugs in 2.2 release. God knows how many more are there.
Edit: Seriously, they fixed 5000 flaming bugs in 2.2 release. God knows how many more are there.
It has its pros and cons.
Pros:
It's generally stable and in my experience works at least as well as windows 7.
DPI scaling is quite reliable and performant.
Vendor drivers are installed automagically by windows update's background process. It's a bit annoying that you can't disable or pause this process without killing it, so waiting for AMD's 300mb video driver to download over a slow connection is a bit confusing, but it's nice you can skip the usual install step and set a decent resolution without browsing to a webpage in 640x480 first. I would rather have an explicit user-controlled package manager, but this is a step in the right direction.
Cons:
They deprecated control panel in favor of the settings app, but the settings app is missing several important settings, so you still occasionally need to dig through control panel, which is a frustratingly fragmented experience.
"Fast boot" (a minimal hibernation mode) is enabled by default, which locks all of your ntfs partitions on shutdown, so you can't mount them read/write in Linux until you leave windows via reboot or disable fast boot.
The bootloader installs in the first EFI system partition it finds, even if it's on another disk and doesn't have room.
If you have a working internet connection during install, you are forced to create a system user that is linked to and named the same as your Microsoft account. Disconnecting from the network during that install phase gives you the option, though.
Exclusive fullscreen mode has been quietly replaced with an optimized windowed borderless mode. It's nice until you want to cut out that tiny extra latency, and then it's a nightmare. You used to be able to check "disable fullscreen optimizations" in properties for your binary, but that doesn't work anymore. You can add some registry entries for the binary, but that only works sometimes.
You can't shut down without installing updates anymore. Not even via the alt-f4 from the desktop modal like you could in 7.
You can delay updates for a limited period of time, and you can set "active hours" when updates won't be forced. Assuming everyone follows a fixed schedule and wants updates installed ASAP is frustratingly authoritative.
Updates try and fail to install when you don't have enough free storage. Is it that hard to just check first? It's this just a passive-aggressive way to remind users to free space? All I know is that it sucks.
There is a lot of bundled garbage, mostly links to app listings like candy crush on the Microsoft store. Just more clutter no one wants.
You can't opt out of all telemetry, which is a frustrating privacy violation.
Pros:
It's generally stable and in my experience works at least as well as windows 7.
DPI scaling is quite reliable and performant.
Vendor drivers are installed automagically by windows update's background process. It's a bit annoying that you can't disable or pause this process without killing it, so waiting for AMD's 300mb video driver to download over a slow connection is a bit confusing, but it's nice you can skip the usual install step and set a decent resolution without browsing to a webpage in 640x480 first. I would rather have an explicit user-controlled package manager, but this is a step in the right direction.
Cons:
They deprecated control panel in favor of the settings app, but the settings app is missing several important settings, so you still occasionally need to dig through control panel, which is a frustratingly fragmented experience.
"Fast boot" (a minimal hibernation mode) is enabled by default, which locks all of your ntfs partitions on shutdown, so you can't mount them read/write in Linux until you leave windows via reboot or disable fast boot.
The bootloader installs in the first EFI system partition it finds, even if it's on another disk and doesn't have room.
If you have a working internet connection during install, you are forced to create a system user that is linked to and named the same as your Microsoft account. Disconnecting from the network during that install phase gives you the option, though.
Exclusive fullscreen mode has been quietly replaced with an optimized windowed borderless mode. It's nice until you want to cut out that tiny extra latency, and then it's a nightmare. You used to be able to check "disable fullscreen optimizations" in properties for your binary, but that doesn't work anymore. You can add some registry entries for the binary, but that only works sometimes.
You can't shut down without installing updates anymore. Not even via the alt-f4 from the desktop modal like you could in 7.
You can delay updates for a limited period of time, and you can set "active hours" when updates won't be forced. Assuming everyone follows a fixed schedule and wants updates installed ASAP is frustratingly authoritative.
Updates try and fail to install when you don't have enough free storage. Is it that hard to just check first? It's this just a passive-aggressive way to remind users to free space? All I know is that it sucks.
There is a lot of bundled garbage, mostly links to app listings like candy crush on the Microsoft store. Just more clutter no one wants.
You can't opt out of all telemetry, which is a frustrating privacy violation.
> Windows 10 is a great modern OS that everyone expected to last and be built upon
Possibly related to Microsoft explicitly saying "there will be no further versions of Windows after Windows 10".
Possibly related to Microsoft explicitly saying "there will be no further versions of Windows after Windows 10".
I semi-seriously wonder if they did it because Apple finally decided to increment their number to Mac OS 11.
I also wonder if Apple went to 11 because Microsoft got to 10.
I also wonder if Apple went to 11 because Microsoft got to 10.
> Windows 10 is a great modern OS
I’m an infrequent user of it but have a starkly different opinion. It feels like a layer on top archeology and the number of places you have to go to find settings and controls is unhelpful.
I’m an infrequent user of it but have a starkly different opinion. It feels like a layer on top archeology and the number of places you have to go to find settings and controls is unhelpful.
I’m convinced that 80% of the hatred of modern Windows could easily have been avoided if they just made both settings areas have, you know, all settings.
I'm not convinced that's a thing they can do.
Too many settings are in 3p apps
Too many settings are in 3p apps
Yeah but Windows itself has two control panels for its own settings, no 3P installed at all.
Left over from the half-hearted touch Renaissance.
Left over from the half-hearted touch Renaissance.
I hate how the File menu in all the office apps turned into some weird thing with no text on it. And when I do remember that's where it went and click it, not a menu but a whole fricking nother version of control panel slides out covering what I was doing...
Perhaps there's a version of Moore's Law concerning the amount of innovation left at the OS level, and we're only starting to run out of it just now.
What legitimately useful features can we expect out of the release of iOS five major versions down the line? Will there be any new features that change the status quo, and that we'd be practically unable to live without? The significant features like the app store and multitasking have already been done long ago. As for macOS, it seems that the new security controls and notifications are significantly impacting some people's user experience, but they're still "improvements" from Apple's standpoint.
And yet Apple and Microsoft are still somehow compelled to keep releasing new versions of their operating systems on a fairly regular basis. It's hard to imagine there will be a "final" or even long-term-support version of iOS. But those companies aren't going to market their new OS versions as changing nothing, so something has to change.
I'm honestly very curious to see what will happen ten years from now when the vendors will struggle to meet their own arbitrary standards for innovation with each new OS version when, by nature, there are not many more significant breakthroughs left to be had.
What legitimately useful features can we expect out of the release of iOS five major versions down the line? Will there be any new features that change the status quo, and that we'd be practically unable to live without? The significant features like the app store and multitasking have already been done long ago. As for macOS, it seems that the new security controls and notifications are significantly impacting some people's user experience, but they're still "improvements" from Apple's standpoint.
And yet Apple and Microsoft are still somehow compelled to keep releasing new versions of their operating systems on a fairly regular basis. It's hard to imagine there will be a "final" or even long-term-support version of iOS. But those companies aren't going to market their new OS versions as changing nothing, so something has to change.
I'm honestly very curious to see what will happen ten years from now when the vendors will struggle to meet their own arbitrary standards for innovation with each new OS version when, by nature, there are not many more significant breakthroughs left to be had.
There are a lot of simple usability changes that could still be added to Windows.
Off the top of my head, I'd like to be able to drag or minimize a parent window when it has a modal dialog open. This is especially frustrating when using an application that uses nested modals and you need to reference the grandparent window to fill in some information on the current modal.
They should buy the code for the file search utility named "Everything" and build that into the OS.
Also, the Amiga had multi-character drive names and path mappings/assignments in 1985. It was nice to type DOCS: or GAMES: into a file dialog to go directly to where I organized those resources. Sure, I could do this with single-letter drives but that requires me to remember what each letter maps to.
Off the top of my head, I'd like to be able to drag or minimize a parent window when it has a modal dialog open. This is especially frustrating when using an application that uses nested modals and you need to reference the grandparent window to fill in some information on the current modal.
They should buy the code for the file search utility named "Everything" and build that into the OS.
Also, the Amiga had multi-character drive names and path mappings/assignments in 1985. It was nice to type DOCS: or GAMES: into a file dialog to go directly to where I organized those resources. Sure, I could do this with single-letter drives but that requires me to remember what each letter maps to.
There is plenty of innovation to be done on security and performance. But very little that is a great 'sales pitch'.
Perhaps much better interface for multi desktop and other multitasking.
Perhaps much better interface for multi desktop and other multitasking.
Just get feature parity with the average Linux distro, and I'll be happy.
Windows is so behind, and every step they take in the right direction is an authoritative foot-gun.
Most of its problems are, at their heart, symptoms of Microsoft's proprietary closed-source design style.
Apple made huge strides in the right direction by basing OS X on BSD, then proceeded to make every step from then on in the wrong one. Walled gardens are pretty, not functional.
Windows is so behind, and every step they take in the right direction is an authoritative foot-gun.
Most of its problems are, at their heart, symptoms of Microsoft's proprietary closed-source design style.
Apple made huge strides in the right direction by basing OS X on BSD, then proceeded to make every step from then on in the wrong one. Walled gardens are pretty, not functional.
I get so sick of Apple reshuffling their interface around just to make it "new" and "modern" every major release that I can almost seriously see myself using Serenity OS as a daily driver one day. I have no idea what's going on over there, but it's like they adopted all the worst design trends from web (things changing on hover, hamburger menus hiding everything to look "clean") to pulled it into macOS.
How is it a "great modern OS?" Internally?
Because its UI and user experience are a shitshow. Settings are scattered everywhere. Windows have no toolbars, title bars, or borders to distinguish them from the one they're overlapping. Menu bars are missing. There are access-prohibited shadows of user directories all over the place in Explorer. The color-scheme editor is simply gone. It's still full of peek-a-boo and Easter-egg UI, with controls disguised as text or simply invisible unless you accidentally roll over them.
And my favorite: Microsoft has disabled remote desktop access except in its "pro" version. Gee, Microsoft: Your contention is that a PROFESSIONAL is the most likely customer to need someone else to log in and help him remotely? Retarded.
When my parents have an issue that I could log in and solve, guess what? I can't. And no, Microsoft, I'm not "upgrading" them to a "pro" version of your broken shit. I'm going to buy them a Mac, and that's the end of Windows in any of my family's homes. And this is coming from a former Windows enthusiast / professional developer / Mac scorner.
You don't realize how unusable Windows has become until you try to set someone up on it. Its E-mail program is absymal, defective in design and function. Outlook isn't included anymore. If you do make the mistake of installing another glorified spam conduit, Office 365, you'll be treated to defects that literally render it unusable to some people: I increased the system-wide font size for my parents, but Outlook didn't honor it. E-mail subjects in the In box remained microscopic and illegible.
And of course there's the endless goddamned harangue to log in with your Microsoft account. A huge portion of the population is laden with an ever-growing pile of accounts and passwords. An account to log into your computer. Another for E-mail. Another for Apple products. Another for your cable provider. ENOUGH. They have no idea which one I'm asking for when I need to get their password to help them with something.
It's easy for the Hacker News demographic to forget that PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS MESS. And so they are writing down their IDs and passwords on Post-Its and putting them on their computers. They are using the same password on every site that demands that they use an E-mail address as a user ID, because they think that this is required.
Then the users feel dumb and blame themselves for problems, which pisses me off even more. They're being TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY MICROSOFT and others, rendering their computers essentially unusable and their security at risk. It's disgraceful.
Because its UI and user experience are a shitshow. Settings are scattered everywhere. Windows have no toolbars, title bars, or borders to distinguish them from the one they're overlapping. Menu bars are missing. There are access-prohibited shadows of user directories all over the place in Explorer. The color-scheme editor is simply gone. It's still full of peek-a-boo and Easter-egg UI, with controls disguised as text or simply invisible unless you accidentally roll over them.
And my favorite: Microsoft has disabled remote desktop access except in its "pro" version. Gee, Microsoft: Your contention is that a PROFESSIONAL is the most likely customer to need someone else to log in and help him remotely? Retarded.
When my parents have an issue that I could log in and solve, guess what? I can't. And no, Microsoft, I'm not "upgrading" them to a "pro" version of your broken shit. I'm going to buy them a Mac, and that's the end of Windows in any of my family's homes. And this is coming from a former Windows enthusiast / professional developer / Mac scorner.
You don't realize how unusable Windows has become until you try to set someone up on it. Its E-mail program is absymal, defective in design and function. Outlook isn't included anymore. If you do make the mistake of installing another glorified spam conduit, Office 365, you'll be treated to defects that literally render it unusable to some people: I increased the system-wide font size for my parents, but Outlook didn't honor it. E-mail subjects in the In box remained microscopic and illegible.
And of course there's the endless goddamned harangue to log in with your Microsoft account. A huge portion of the population is laden with an ever-growing pile of accounts and passwords. An account to log into your computer. Another for E-mail. Another for Apple products. Another for your cable provider. ENOUGH. They have no idea which one I'm asking for when I need to get their password to help them with something.
It's easy for the Hacker News demographic to forget that PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS MESS. And so they are writing down their IDs and passwords on Post-Its and putting them on their computers. They are using the same password on every site that demands that they use an E-mail address as a user ID, because they think that this is required.
Then the users feel dumb and blame themselves for problems, which pisses me off even more. They're being TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY MICROSOFT and others, rendering their computers essentially unusable and their security at risk. It's disgraceful.
Windows have no toolbars, title bars, or borders to distinguish them from the one they're overlapping.
...and let's not forget removing color from the active window's titlebar, so it was eye-searingly white like all the others, then reluctantly adding it back as an optional setting in an "update" later.
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/how-to-resto...
When stuff like that seems to happen almost regularly, I really wonder who's running the show at MS. Destroying two decades of UI refinement takes active (and IMHO almost malicious) effort, not mere ignorance.
...and let's not forget removing color from the active window's titlebar, so it was eye-searingly white like all the others, then reluctantly adding it back as an optional setting in an "update" later.
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/how-to-resto...
When stuff like that seems to happen almost regularly, I really wonder who's running the show at MS. Destroying two decades of UI refinement takes active (and IMHO almost malicious) effort, not mere ignorance.
They won't change until they have competition.
Bleach white minimalism is the thing I lament the most about 21st century design. And, when designers reluctantly put color and contrast back in, they tend to just give you light grays.
I'm looking forward to the return of baroque UX. It's been a few hundred years, but what the hay.
I use a custom active window title bar color but frustratingly Google Chrome is about the only application I notice that doesn't respect it.
Well, regarding the color thing, I figured it was a taste thing, and mine might be outdated or something.
But I particularly like it when I open a new window, it appears on top of the old ones, it looks like it's accepting input (the cursor blinks) but when I type, nothing happens. I have to actually click inside it for it to actually gain actual focus.
I'm thinking in particular of new Edge windows.
But I particularly like it when I open a new window, it appears on top of the old ones, it looks like it's accepting input (the cursor blinks) but when I type, nothing happens. I have to actually click inside it for it to actually gain actual focus.
I'm thinking in particular of new Edge windows.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/solve-pc-problem...
Nice things are that it doesn't disable the ability of the remote end to see what's happening and that it requires active input from both ends to make the connection so the machine isn't open to a fully remote takeover.
Nice things are that it doesn't disable the ability of the remote end to see what's happening and that it requires active input from both ends to make the connection so the machine isn't open to a fully remote takeover.
>And my favorite: Microsoft has disabled remote desktop access except in its "pro" version. Gee, Microsoft: Your contention is that a PROFESSIONAL is the most likely customer to need someone else to log in and help him remotely? Retarded.
Before calling someone the hard R word maybe first know about what you're talking about.
https://superuser.com/a/1302011
https://rktechstudio.com/enable-disable-remote-assistance/
Before calling someone the hard R word maybe first know about what you're talking about.
https://superuser.com/a/1302011
https://rktechstudio.com/enable-disable-remote-assistance/
You can use "Quick Assist" app on non-Pro to support other's PC, rather than remote desktop. It can connect to PC under NAT. RDP don't support NAT traversal by default so not suitable for support use case. Even WinXP supports "Remote Assistance" (I don't remember how it work). Did you tried RDP to PC in other house past? Please don't expose RDP port in the wild.
For user id claim, it's not only due to MS but all services. MS and others improving situation by supporting FIDO and password manager.
For user id claim, it's not only due to MS but all services. MS and others improving situation by supporting FIDO and password manager.
Hasn't this behaviour been the case since at least Windows 98? I'd say Windows has improved a lot since then! Remember Active Desktop, the Channel Bar and MSNBC?
I may have misgivings about certain things in modern desktops but Windows 10, OneDrive, Teams, Edge absolutely deliver a better experience for an average user compared to XP, Microsoft Briefcase, Windows Messenger and IE6 - and XP was one of the good ones!
I may have misgivings about certain things in modern desktops but Windows 10, OneDrive, Teams, Edge absolutely deliver a better experience for an average user compared to XP, Microsoft Briefcase, Windows Messenger and IE6 - and XP was one of the good ones!
>> but Windows 10, OneDrive, Teams, Edge...
My company issued laptop came with all that. After installing some important software (embedded compiler and IDE, wsl, etc) my one drive complained it was full, which needs to be addressed or it will keep complaining. The recommended solution is to upgrade to a paid onedrive with more then 5GB. I didnt know I was using onedrive, so I turned it off. All my important files created over that last few months disappeared. I could buy more onedrive space to restore them or they did show them all in some folder so dragged them back to various places. This was 100 percent wasted time since the machine came with something on the order of 100 times the 5GB onedrive freebie limit.
Now months after having turned off onedrive, it's full again. Must have got turned on again, but not by me.
Teams is another one I dont even want to get started on. And edge is just chrome with MS corruption and starting at Bing.
My company issued laptop came with all that. After installing some important software (embedded compiler and IDE, wsl, etc) my one drive complained it was full, which needs to be addressed or it will keep complaining. The recommended solution is to upgrade to a paid onedrive with more then 5GB. I didnt know I was using onedrive, so I turned it off. All my important files created over that last few months disappeared. I could buy more onedrive space to restore them or they did show them all in some folder so dragged them back to various places. This was 100 percent wasted time since the machine came with something on the order of 100 times the 5GB onedrive freebie limit.
Now months after having turned off onedrive, it's full again. Must have got turned on again, but not by me.
Teams is another one I dont even want to get started on. And edge is just chrome with MS corruption and starting at Bing.
>Teams is another one I don't even want to get started on.
At least this one is actively used by most companies (at least outside of IT/devs firms) and they generally find it acceptable.
OneDrive on the other hand... Even when I was an IT consultant, I haven't met a single person who has tried it and didn't absolutely hate it. I have seen employees playing out of pocket for dropbox or gDrive even when OneDrive came for free with the MS Office subscriptions provided by their employer because of how frustrating it was to use and work mysteriously disappeared or got corrupted on a regular basis.
At least this one is actively used by most companies (at least outside of IT/devs firms) and they generally find it acceptable.
OneDrive on the other hand... Even when I was an IT consultant, I haven't met a single person who has tried it and didn't absolutely hate it. I have seen employees playing out of pocket for dropbox or gDrive even when OneDrive came for free with the MS Office subscriptions provided by their employer because of how frustrating it was to use and work mysteriously disappeared or got corrupted on a regular basis.
> >Teams is another one I don't even want to get started on.
> At least this one is actively used by most companies (at least outside of IT/devs firms) and they generally find it acceptable.
Yes they find it acceptable in the way a slave prostitute finds the client acceptable. I have to use Teams because it is company policy. On my computer such a parody of a program has no place. Using it is an exercise in masochism.
> At least this one is actively used by most companies (at least outside of IT/devs firms) and they generally find it acceptable.
Yes they find it acceptable in the way a slave prostitute finds the client acceptable. I have to use Teams because it is company policy. On my computer such a parody of a program has no place. Using it is an exercise in masochism.
Teams is a strong contender for most aggravating software ever written.
It's written horribly, butstillbetter than Skype for business
> I may have misgivings about certain things in modern desktops but Windows 10, OneDrive, Teams, Edge absolutely deliver a better experience for an average user compared to XP, Microsoft Briefcase, Windows Messenger and IE6 - and XP was one of the good ones!
I'm not familiar with Briefcase (never knew what it did) and I'll give you Edge vs IE6.
But Teams vs Windows Messenger? No way. I'm running Teams on a computer orders of magnitute more powerful than what I had at the time of XP, and it STILL lags. I'm not a particularly fast typer, but it STILL can't keep up with me. This is, hands down, the worst piece of software I have to use today.
And I bet if it wasn't pushed "free" by MS to companies already using their stuff, no one would know about it.
I'm not familiar with Briefcase (never knew what it did) and I'll give you Edge vs IE6.
But Teams vs Windows Messenger? No way. I'm running Teams on a computer orders of magnitute more powerful than what I had at the time of XP, and it STILL lags. I'm not a particularly fast typer, but it STILL can't keep up with me. This is, hands down, the worst piece of software I have to use today.
And I bet if it wasn't pushed "free" by MS to companies already using their stuff, no one would know about it.
Apple has done this for a long time too. I used to be an ipod believer, but then I tried to put music onto one using anything other than itunes. Obviously, that was a long time.
But woe be unto the apple user who wants to interoperate with a non-apple thing.
But woe be unto the apple user who wants to interoperate with a non-apple thing.
Say what you will about the walled garden, at least there is one working way to do the thing.
The LTSC enterprise/MSDN-only versions are almost perfect. All the crap is ripped out, it's fantastic. It's what Windows should be.
It's sort of amazing to me that most people through word of mouth don't already know this. Your work or university has probably already paid for a license dozens of times over.
don't even get a hevc license with windows 10 pro..
But who else will save us from the tyrannical Apple cultists!?
[deleted]
Correct title: "ad brings down the entire Windows 11 desktop". There's no "well behaving ad".
Just remove all ads. That should fix the bug.
I will begrudgingly use windows 11 at some point because of the games you can play on it. But for anything else I'm so glad Linux and its ecosystem exists, and is only getting more stable lately.
Windows gives me heartburn.
Windows gives me heartburn.
If you're playing games through Steam and haven't checked out Proton in a while, give it another try! The only game I haven't been able to get work on Ubuntu 16/18/20 is Fallout 3.
Don't feel bad - Fallout 3 (atleast from Steam) no longer works on Windows 10 either! Installed it the other day, googled after it failed to launch, and saw there's a few community efforts and hacks you can try to get it up and running. I gave up.
I completed Fallout 3 a few months ago on Ubuntu 20 under Proton (and Fallout: New Vegas). Try using Lutris's implementation of wine ± proton -- my GOG copy "just worked", much to my surprise. Including the mods, and mod managers!
If you continue to have trouble, drop me an email and I'll give you my configuration.
I very much second your sentiment about proton being "good enough". It's amazing! I have a less than stellar GPU -- a Radeon 570 -- and haven't found a single game that I can't play on 'ultra' settings at 1080p, including the in-development BG3.
After Apple's CSAM awfulness, my next laptop will be linux, ideally with a Zen processor, quite possibly running Manjaro and either KDE or i3.
If you continue to have trouble, drop me an email and I'll give you my configuration.
I very much second your sentiment about proton being "good enough". It's amazing! I have a less than stellar GPU -- a Radeon 570 -- and haven't found a single game that I can't play on 'ultra' settings at 1080p, including the in-development BG3.
After Apple's CSAM awfulness, my next laptop will be linux, ideally with a Zen processor, quite possibly running Manjaro and either KDE or i3.
There's only one ThinkPad with Ryzen that comes preloaded with Linux last I checked, but I'm hoping more come out soon since I really like ThinkPads. Either way, ThinkPads are worth a look since they play well with Linux, whether they come with Linux preloaded or not.
I'm also in the market (to replace my MacBook-esque XPS 13 Developer Edition), so if someone wants to suggest me a (other than ThinkPads) 13-14 inch laptop that will play well with Linux [not necessarily preloaded], let me know.
I'm also in the market (to replace my MacBook-esque XPS 13 Developer Edition), so if someone wants to suggest me a (other than ThinkPads) 13-14 inch laptop that will play well with Linux [not necessarily preloaded], let me know.
The moves towards getting Ubuntu onto an M1 appear to be moving along quite nicely if you are patient and Apple hardware is of interest.
Not interested. I'm not patient, and I don't want a laptop with just USB-C ports since I find it extremely limiting.
Plus, x86 and mainstream aarch64 hardware feels like it will always be ahead since it isn't a reverse engineered effort.
Plus, x86 and mainstream aarch64 hardware feels like it will always be ahead since it isn't a reverse engineered effort.
You've checked out system76's offerings? They're not 4k, but otherwise they seem nice.
Don't like their rebadged Clevo hardware (I know they put a lot more effort than that, and I appreciate it, but the look is not for me). Other than that, IIRC they just came out with a Ryzen laptop and it's too big for my taste.
They don't offer any choice in keyboard layout -- and I don't use en-us. Would love to support them, but until that changes...
I would like to but the performance is a dealbreaker. If I'm on windows, I can expect to run latest titles at 60 fps on my 4 year old rig. That isn't possible on wine/proton.
Provided some garbage from either Microsoft or your hardware vendor isn’t sucking up all the I/O or CPU which has consistently been my experience the last few times I’ve suffered Windows.
This has never happened to me.
Yes I am aware. Even before Proton I was one of those geeks with one Radeon for a Windows VM and one cheap GPU for the host system.
But it's just too much hassle. I'd rather just boot up my big Windows gaming rig. I view it as a modular Xbox that I build myself.
So no matter how far we come in Linux, most people will still have a "Wintendo" PC console for gaming.
But it's just too much hassle. I'd rather just boot up my big Windows gaming rig. I view it as a modular Xbox that I build myself.
So no matter how far we come in Linux, most people will still have a "Wintendo" PC console for gaming.
What games specifically? Because I've been doing 100% of my gaming on Linux lately and it works quite nice.
Something like half of the top 10 games on Steam can't even start due to anti cheat and Steam is what's pushing gaming on Linux. To be fair to them if they weren't that number would be a lot worse, many of their own games are in that list. Of the ones that can they generally work alright but a few have intermittent crashes or things you have to workaround.
If you play older/smaller single player games though it generally does the job pretty darn well.
If you play older/smaller single player games though it generally does the job pretty darn well.
What ever happened to simple, light weight, free standing OSes? Why does everything have to be networked, with "like share subscribe" buttons, bundled with crap and always online?
It's profitable to do so. If I had to point a finger it is because individuals (and companies, made up of individuals) do not take responsibility for their part in supporting institutions that corrode the commons for personal gain.
If you work for a place that is largely just about shuffling money to yourself by exploiting info asymmetry sabotage it or quit. You most likely have a skillset that can earn you a living wage somewhere that's a net positive for society.
If you work for a place that is largely just about shuffling money to yourself by exploiting info asymmetry sabotage it or quit. You most likely have a skillset that can earn you a living wage somewhere that's a net positive for society.
Looks like the tradition of skipping a terrible windows release will continue
Me.. Vista.. 8.. 11
Me.. Vista.. 8.. 11
And this is why I ditched Windows when the preview edition installed v11, and moved to Fedora.
For what it’s worth, the web has figured out ad serving. With stuff like SafeFrame there is decent sandboxing and exception handling. I’ve really not seen any ad serving outside of web and app sdks that doesn’t fail miserably on a technical level.
Has the web figured out ad serving? I was under the impression that malvertising was still very much an issue and even best-in-class security doesn't outright stop things like cryptominers, but instead simply prevents them from consuming too many resources. It's better than wherever MS used here, but I'm definitely not comfortable using the web without an adblocker.
It’s not a solved issue to be certain, but sites that use a service like CleanCreative rarely have issues, as do any publishers that whitelist ads and advertisers.
It would really be a shame if something were to happen to the files that contain the code that implements these "features".
This also creates trust issues in a lot of applications like Point of Sale, Machine Control Devices, Security and Automation Solutions, Motion Control Solutions, Etc.
I miss Balmer a little bit. Developers hate this shit. Have trust that if you support developers, they will advocate your OS.
I miss Balmer a little bit. Developers hate this shit. Have trust that if you support developers, they will advocate your OS.
Actually I think windows became much better for developers after ballmer. VSCode, github, wsl, wsl2... It seems to me that ballmer was much more about windows-only everywhere than developers.
Microsoft stopped using real hardware for Windows Update testing and instead now rely on virtual machines. Ever since then Windows Update has been the most incompetent, half-assed major software project in the world, bar none. Java has a better track record.
Teams, that application that is notoriously slow, unstable and crashy AF...will soon be 100% baked in and inseparable from the rest of the OS.
[cue hyper-emotional MSFT spokesperson reaction GIF]
[cue hyper-emotional MSFT spokesperson reaction GIF]
Looks like Windows is the Smart TV of home computers since Win10
Maybe Haiku with a good web browser will save us :)
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It just keeps getting worse and worse.
And this wonderful webpage starts playing a video with. I thing to do with the story. What a joke.
An ad can take down your computer... sigh. Microsoft you have learned nothing... :(
Windows 11 hasn't been released yet right?
It's not so much the fact that an issue occurred, but rather the fact that this type of issue can occur at all. They have coupled nagware into the core of the OS.
Will be released to GA next month.
I used to doubt power of ads. No longer.
Sounds like a feature, not a bug.
Windows is probably the most important piece of software in the entire world, yet Microsoft does not treat it like the most important piece of software in the entire world. They have no sense of responsibility about foisting this garbage onto billions of users.
I've been a lifelong Windows user, but I've come to feel that Windows needs to be completely replaced. We simply cannot trust Microsoft with mission-critical software any longer.
I've been a lifelong Windows user, but I've come to feel that Windows needs to be completely replaced. We simply cannot trust Microsoft with mission-critical software any longer.
You do realize this issue was on Windows 11, an unreleased operating system correct? I'm not saying Windows 10 hasn't had its share of critical issues, but I can't remember the last time Microsoft released widely a show-stopping bug to the LTS branch of Windows (that is, the branch you'd be using for "mission-critical" applications).
The existence of ads as a "core" part of the Windows experience speaks otherwise.
Why are there ads in paid software? Why is Microsoft content having a separation of "serious" Windows and consumer Windows, delineated by ads and spyware?
Why are there ads in paid software? Why is Microsoft content having a separation of "serious" Windows and consumer Windows, delineated by ads and spyware?
It is not any unreleased OS though. It is a major release of the most widely used desktop OS in the world, that presumably got through many layers of testing and was released to a small set of outside users before the final rollout less than 1 month away. One would expect a pretty solid state by then.
Yeah, but I'm thinking this is a repeat of Windows Vista and I'll be able to stay on 10 for a while before they create Windows 12 which will be a much better release.
You do realize that this isn’t about this one ad bringing down Windows 11 but rather the very architecture that allowed for an ad to integrate itself into the system to such an extent? That is not something you can fix before RTM release, only patch around.
It's not just defects, it's ridiculous design choices. Why does almost every single Windows user on the planet have their attention occasionally taken by something utterly pointless to them like "3D Objects" or "Onedrive" when they look for a file, or choosing between "Edit with Photos", "Edit with Paint 3D", and "Edit"? And choose between "Settings" and "Control Panel" which seem like different skins of the same thing, except one has slightly more icons in it than the other, so does that mean it's more functional? Who knows? User has to decide. And why is it that with multiple monitors, if one goes to sleep, the windows all move around, so for anything you keep open, you're regularly manually re-positioning the window every day?
Actually the 2 sets of settings is understandable. They probably had to give it the "modern look" but for compatibility and how users were used to the old "control panel" they had to keep it too. And now you have both!
That would be more believable if they let you do the same things. It would probably be more accurate to say they had to keep the old one because the new one is (still!) missing half the settings.
The different settings apps that claim to manage the same thing don't cover the same settings. The old apps are not still there to support users who don't like the new look, they're there because the new apps are insufficient and cover an overlapping but different set of configuration. It's thoroughly confusing and frankly a terrible design choice.
Another reason why old control panes still alive is that new settings app isn't customizable by 3rd parties. Some 3rd party drivers added custom configuration panel on control panel and old drivers remain forever on windows world.
I think it was back in 2018, there was a bugged mandatory Windows Update package that was corrupted for weeks.
The system would ask you to reboot the computer, at which point it would try to install the update. That failed with a bluescreen, requiring an automatic restore. This process took around 30 minutes on an SSD.
So far seems innocuous, but the thing is, as this was a mandatory update, after one or two days it would display an un-dismissable popup over the entire screen demanding a restart, which would repeat the process above.
This caused data loss in applications if the user didn't have the opportunity to save whatever data was in memory. Remember, the popup is undismissable, there were no ahead of time warnings, and the timing varied (so you couldn't even rely on "the computer will fuck up at 16:03" or whatever).
The system would ask you to reboot the computer, at which point it would try to install the update. That failed with a bluescreen, requiring an automatic restore. This process took around 30 minutes on an SSD.
So far seems innocuous, but the thing is, as this was a mandatory update, after one or two days it would display an un-dismissable popup over the entire screen demanding a restart, which would repeat the process above.
This caused data loss in applications if the user didn't have the opportunity to save whatever data was in memory. Remember, the popup is undismissable, there were no ahead of time warnings, and the timing varied (so you couldn't even rely on "the computer will fuck up at 16:03" or whatever).
> We simply cannot trust Microsoft with mission-critical software any longer.
We generally don't, most servers and mission critical infrastructure runs Linux or a BSD. What scares me is that many medical devices do run on Windows and that is a future Therac-25 like incident waiting to happen ( https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Therac-25 )
We generally don't, most servers and mission critical infrastructure runs Linux or a BSD. What scares me is that many medical devices do run on Windows and that is a future Therac-25 like incident waiting to happen ( https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Therac-25 )
Some years ago I went to the dentist and had to get x-rays done on my teeth. After a fair bit of time going through all of the different angles, the technician apologized to me and said that we have to do it all again.
The computer tied to the x-ray machine did a forced restart for Windows update, this is back in the days of Windows 7, and I had to get my teeth x-rayed all over again after we sat and waited for 20 minutes.
The computer tied to the x-ray machine did a forced restart for Windows update, this is back in the days of Windows 7, and I had to get my teeth x-rayed all over again after we sat and waited for 20 minutes.
This is why yeah computers for controlling machines should not be allowed to indiscriminately access the internet.
> Windows is probably the most important piece of software in the entire world
It's absolutely not. The amount of things that use the Linux kernel for critical network and infrastructure projects, that are mostly hidden to the public... Or that are built on a foundation of something with a clear Linux heritage.
Windows is probably the most visible important piece of software with a GUI.
It's absolutely not. The amount of things that use the Linux kernel for critical network and infrastructure projects, that are mostly hidden to the public... Or that are built on a foundation of something with a clear Linux heritage.
Windows is probably the most visible important piece of software with a GUI.
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I don’t see how the GUI makes Windows less important. Windows is everywhere.
> Windows is everywhere.
Not on the cellphone, smartv, router, supercomputer, webserver or tablet I use. Actually, they all run the same (with some customization) kernel.
Not on the cellphone, smartv, router, supercomputer, webserver or tablet I use. Actually, they all run the same (with some customization) kernel.
The comment was about importance, not popularity. Those aren't mainly used for important work. If people are paying you to use the software, it's probably important to them.
> Those aren't mainly used for important work.
Tablets, smartphones and smart tvs have been of increasing importance on education activities, specially after the pandemic. My router is used for ALL my internet traffic, important or not. Webservers... basically most of what most things people do online. And supercomputers are right now doing high relevancy tasks like running climate models, simulating protein folding, drug interactions and improving vehicle's safety.
I'd disagree those aren't mainly used for important work.
Tablets, smartphones and smart tvs have been of increasing importance on education activities, specially after the pandemic. My router is used for ALL my internet traffic, important or not. Webservers... basically most of what most things people do online. And supercomputers are right now doing high relevancy tasks like running climate models, simulating protein folding, drug interactions and improving vehicle's safety.
I'd disagree those aren't mainly used for important work.
Are schools that use Windows tablets doing important work?
That’s a very small, and biased, sample size.
That very same kernel runs on the majority of smartphones, tablets, smart tvs, servers, routers and 100% of the biggest super computers out there. This very same kernel literally flies on Mars. Although my sample size is small it is not biased neither are the referred market segments.
And while Mars and supercomputers are cool and important for society and humanity in general, there is also no denying of the immediate impact that Windows has in most human-interfacing applications.
Supermarket checkouts, public services, small-scale logistics, health, just plain old office workers, and so on.
An undeniably large slice of companies and public sectors that do not have a dedicated IT staff rely on Windows-based computers to organize and operate their activities. Outages to those probably have more direct impact on actual everyday people going about their lives than an outage in a Mars rover or lack of WiFi access.
Just to be clear I'm not playing teams here, *nix-based systems are ridiculously important too, but the open-source base is arguably a more - democratic? healthy? stable? I lack of a better word - development process, and its importance does not lessen the importance of other systems.
Supermarket checkouts, public services, small-scale logistics, health, just plain old office workers, and so on.
An undeniably large slice of companies and public sectors that do not have a dedicated IT staff rely on Windows-based computers to organize and operate their activities. Outages to those probably have more direct impact on actual everyday people going about their lives than an outage in a Mars rover or lack of WiFi access.
Just to be clear I'm not playing teams here, *nix-based systems are ridiculously important too, but the open-source base is arguably a more - democratic? healthy? stable? I lack of a better word - development process, and its importance does not lessen the importance of other systems.
The only place windows is competitive is desktop - a small and shrinking piece of the market.
This! People must stop acting like computer = desktop.
This is such an incredibly pedantic HN answer.
Let's just say they're both insanely important to our continued functioning digital existence. Without working Linux or Windows we are quite fucked.
Let's just say they're both insanely important to our continued functioning digital existence. Without working Linux or Windows we are quite fucked.
95% of what I see many ordinary users do with a computer these days is mediated from within a browser window (Chrome, Edge, Safari, Firefox). Those browsers seem to work just fine on MacOS or a Linux desktop.
The point isn't what's possible, it's about the way things are now. Most people with a desktop or laptop machine run Windows on it. Could Linux do everything they want from a computer? Sure, almost. Are they actually using Linux? No - ergo, Windows is still massively important. Not to mention the countless organisations whose IT departments are heavily invested in Windows desktops and all the related supporting infrastructure. Of course they could all change, but they're not going to do it any time soon. Yes Linux is awesome and everywhere but, for example, just a few weeks ago one of my (software developer!) colleagues scoffed when I mentioned Linux and asked if anyone still uses it - while Linux silently runs almost everything around us, Windows is still much more visibly present in most peoples' lives.
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Microsoft has no threat on the desktop. Apple has a respectable slice but still small compared to Microsoft. With regard to linux... well, if ME, Vista and 8 couldn't bring it into a good position, I don't know what would.
Sometimes I feel like microsoft bribes people in free desktop project.
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I'm also a big fan of the weather widget they tried to force on everyone's start bar.
I'm also a big fan of how "one drive" is now critical functionality, and windows needs to persistently notify me if I'm not logged into it.
I'm also a big fan of how it's 2021, and their bloated OS still takes like ten minutes to truly boot up all the way.
I hate how my relationship with Microsoft/Google etc is essentially one where they're constantly pushing the boundaries of what I'm willing to put up with. It's fucking abusive.