Real-world stories of how we’ve compromised CI/CD pipelines(research.nccgroup.com)
research.nccgroup.com
Real-world stories of how we’ve compromised CI/CD pipelines
https://research.nccgroup.com/2022/01/13/10-real-world-stories-of-how-weve-compromised-ci-cd-pipelines/
119 comments
> Environment variables are a dangerous place to store secrets - they're global to the process and therefor easy to leak.
The two real problems with environment variables are:
1. Environment variables are traditionally readable by any other process in the system. There are settings you can do on modern kernels to turn this off, but how do you know that you will always run on such a system?
2. Environment variables are inherited to all subprocesses by default, unless you either unset them after you fork() (but before you exec()), or if you take special care to use execve() (or similar) function to provide your own custom-made environment for the new process.
The two real problems with environment variables are:
1. Environment variables are traditionally readable by any other process in the system. There are settings you can do on modern kernels to turn this off, but how do you know that you will always run on such a system?
2. Environment variables are inherited to all subprocesses by default, unless you either unset them after you fork() (but before you exec()), or if you take special care to use execve() (or similar) function to provide your own custom-made environment for the new process.
> 1. Environment variables are traditionally readable by any other process in the system. There are settings you can do on modern kernels to turn this off, but how do you know that you will always run on such a system?
I think that this would require being the same user as the process you're trying to read. Access to proc/pid/environ should require that iirc. You can very easily go further by restricting procfs using hidepid.
And ptrace restrictions are pretty commonplace now I think? So the attacker has to be a parent process or root.
> 2. Environment variables are inherited to all subprocesses by default, unless you either unset them after you fork() (but before you exec()), or if you take special care to use execve() (or similar) function to provide your own custom-made environment for the new process.
Yeah, this goes to my "easy to leak" point.
Either way though you're talking about "attacker has remote code execution", which is definitely worth considering, but I don't think it matters with regards to env vs anything else.
Files suffer from (1), except generally worse. File handles suffer from (2) afaik.
Embedding the private key into the binary doesn't help too much if the attacker is executing with the ability to ptrace you, but it does make leaking much harder ie: you can't trick a process into dumping cleartext credentials from the env just by crashing it.
I think that this would require being the same user as the process you're trying to read. Access to proc/pid/environ should require that iirc. You can very easily go further by restricting procfs using hidepid.
And ptrace restrictions are pretty commonplace now I think? So the attacker has to be a parent process or root.
> 2. Environment variables are inherited to all subprocesses by default, unless you either unset them after you fork() (but before you exec()), or if you take special care to use execve() (or similar) function to provide your own custom-made environment for the new process.
Yeah, this goes to my "easy to leak" point.
Either way though you're talking about "attacker has remote code execution", which is definitely worth considering, but I don't think it matters with regards to env vs anything else.
Files suffer from (1), except generally worse. File handles suffer from (2) afaik.
Embedding the private key into the binary doesn't help too much if the attacker is executing with the ability to ptrace you, but it does make leaking much harder ie: you can't trick a process into dumping cleartext credentials from the env just by crashing it.
> I think that this would require being the same user as the process you're trying to read.
IIRC, this was not always the case. But fair enough, this might not be a relevant issue for any modern system.
IIRC, this was not always the case. But fair enough, this might not be a relevant issue for any modern system.
I think your agent idea is good. I'd want to add in a way for the agent to detect when a key is used twice (to catch other processes using the key) or when the code you wrote didn't get the key directly (to catch proxies), and then a way to kill or suspend the process for review. Would be pretty sweet.
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When you start doing security this way you end up chasing your tail. There are so many ways to mess it up.
There is a really good article that explains a different way of securing these systems though sets of attestations.
https://grepory.substack.com/p/der-softwareherkunft-software...
There is a really good article that explains a different way of securing these systems though sets of attestations.
https://grepory.substack.com/p/der-softwareherkunft-software...
Start doing security what way, exactly? I defined a threat model and a mitigation. And it's pretty straightforward - a single keypair that ties environment variables to their deployment.
The article you linked to is about signing. It doesn't solve "I need to put an AWS key into the environment of a process".
The article you linked to is about signing. It doesn't solve "I need to put an AWS key into the environment of a process".
Interesting to learn that credentials in environment variables are frowned upon. I mean, makes sense if your threat model includes people pushing malicious code to CI, but aren't you more or less done for at that point anyway? If "legitimate" code can do a certain thing, then malicious code can do too. I guess you'll want to limit the blast radius, but drawing these boundaries seems like a nightmare for everyone...
> makes sense if your threat model includes people pushing malicious code to CI, but aren't you more or less done for at that point anyway? If "legitimate" code can do a certain thing, then malicious code can do too.
The answer is very much, 'it depends'. For oen thing, developers can run whatever code in CI before it's benn reviewed. I could just nab the env vars and post them wherever. If there are no sensitive env vars for me to nab and you have enforced code review, then I need a co-conspirator, and my change is probably going to leave a lot more of a paper trail.
Another risk is accidental disclosure - I have on at least two occasions accidentally logged sensitive environment variables in our CI environment. Now your threat model is not just a malicious developer pushing code - it's a developer making a mistake, plus anyone with read access to the CI system.
I don't know about your org, but at my job, the set of people who have read access to CI is a lot larger than the set who can push code, which is again a lot larger than the set of people who can merge code without a reviewer signing off.
> but drawing these boundaries seems like a nightmare for everyone...
As someone currently struggling with how to draw them, yup.
The answer is very much, 'it depends'. For oen thing, developers can run whatever code in CI before it's benn reviewed. I could just nab the env vars and post them wherever. If there are no sensitive env vars for me to nab and you have enforced code review, then I need a co-conspirator, and my change is probably going to leave a lot more of a paper trail.
Another risk is accidental disclosure - I have on at least two occasions accidentally logged sensitive environment variables in our CI environment. Now your threat model is not just a malicious developer pushing code - it's a developer making a mistake, plus anyone with read access to the CI system.
I don't know about your org, but at my job, the set of people who have read access to CI is a lot larger than the set who can push code, which is again a lot larger than the set of people who can merge code without a reviewer signing off.
> but drawing these boundaries seems like a nightmare for everyone...
As someone currently struggling with how to draw them, yup.
> For one thing, developers can run whatever code in CI before it's been reviewed.
Yeah I don't think this gets talked about enough.
If you're talking about private repos in an organization then CI often runs on any pull request. That means a developer is able to make CI run in an unreviewed PR. Of course for it to make its way into a protected branch (main, etc.) it'll likely need a code review but nothing is stopping that developer who opened the unreviewed PR to modify the CI yaml file in a commit to make that PR's pipeline do something different.
Requiring a team lead or someone to allow every individual PR's pipeline to run (what GitHub does by default in public repos) would add too much friction and not all major git hosts support the idea of locking down the pipelines file by decoupling it from the code repo.
Edit: Depending on which CI provider you use, this situation is mostly preventable -- "mostly" in the sense that you can control how much damage can be done. Check out this comment later in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29967077
Yeah I don't think this gets talked about enough.
If you're talking about private repos in an organization then CI often runs on any pull request. That means a developer is able to make CI run in an unreviewed PR. Of course for it to make its way into a protected branch (main, etc.) it'll likely need a code review but nothing is stopping that developer who opened the unreviewed PR to modify the CI yaml file in a commit to make that PR's pipeline do something different.
Requiring a team lead or someone to allow every individual PR's pipeline to run (what GitHub does by default in public repos) would add too much friction and not all major git hosts support the idea of locking down the pipelines file by decoupling it from the code repo.
Edit: Depending on which CI provider you use, this situation is mostly preventable -- "mostly" in the sense that you can control how much damage can be done. Check out this comment later in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29967077
Yeah but I mean... that's why CI and CD are separate things. CI should not need any privileges. CI builds should be hermetic (no network access, no persistence, ideally fully reproducible from what's going in). CI should not talk to servers on your network, let alone have credentials, especially for production systems.
CI for me has to access repositories. Eg. downloading libraries from PyPI, Maven, NPM, etc...
For private repositories, that means access to credentials. Probably read-only credentials, but it requires network access.
Would you be suggesting that everyone should commit all dependencies?
For private repositories, that means access to credentials. Probably read-only credentials, but it requires network access.
Would you be suggesting that everyone should commit all dependencies?
That's a fair point. I think for many projects which only consume dependencies the answer can be "yes, just commit all your dependencies" in many instances. Pulling from internal repos shouldn't be critical though as long as the read-only tokens you're using can only access what the developers can read anyway; pulling "unintended" code in a CI should never be able to escalate because we're running anything a dev pushed.
I've heard of doing this, although not worked on such a project. Committing node_modules seems wild to me and I foresee issues with committing all the Python wheels necessary for different platforms on some projects.
I'm a proponent of lock-file approaches, which gain 99% of the benefits with far less pain. It requires network access, though.
I'm a proponent of lock-file approaches, which gain 99% of the benefits with far less pain. It requires network access, though.
Yarn v2 is much better for committing dependencies than committing node_modules.
However, it's problematic. Only use it if you're certain it will solve a specific problem you have.
Consider using Docker to build images that include a snapshot of node_modules.
However, it's problematic. Only use it if you're certain it will solve a specific problem you have.
Consider using Docker to build images that include a snapshot of node_modules.
You could "just"
1. stand up a private package mirror that you control, that uses a whitelist for what packages it is willing to mirror;
2. configure your project's dependency-fetching logic to fetch from said mirror;
3. configure CI to only allow outbound network access to your package mirror's IP.
The disadvantage — but also the point — of this, is that it is then a release manager's responsibility, not a developer's responsibility, to give the final say-so for adding a dependency to the project (because only the release manager has the permissions to add packages to the mirror.)
1. stand up a private package mirror that you control, that uses a whitelist for what packages it is willing to mirror;
2. configure your project's dependency-fetching logic to fetch from said mirror;
3. configure CI to only allow outbound network access to your package mirror's IP.
The disadvantage — but also the point — of this, is that it is then a release manager's responsibility, not a developer's responsibility, to give the final say-so for adding a dependency to the project (because only the release manager has the permissions to add packages to the mirror.)
That's an interesting approach. I'm not keen on the bureaucratic aspect, which leads to more friction than it's worth in my experience.
I guess that's beside the point if your goal is only to reduce risk of compromised CI/CD.
I guess that's beside the point if your goal is only to reduce risk of compromised CI/CD.
You can compromise and give the developers the ability to add dependencies as well. In a separate “dependency mirror” package. But those have to be code reviewed like anything else. So you have a paper trail but adding a dependency is lower friction. And you still can’t accidentally (or maliciously!) pull in an evil dependency without at least two people involved.
Sure, but that's a completely different scenario than the one the OP/TFA is talking about. We're talking about disclosing privileged information or access tokens that a single developer on their own shouldn't be able to handle without code review, like being able to use your CI system to access production accounts. Software libraries don't fall under this category, since the developer would already need to have accessed them to write the code in the first place!
I was focused on the "no network access" aspect of formerly_proven's comment. "no network access" would make CI nearly pointless from my perspective.
I agree that there are tokens and variables that are dangerous to expose via CI, but throwing the baby out with the bathwater confused me.
I agree that there are tokens and variables that are dangerous to expose via CI, but throwing the baby out with the bathwater confused me.
Based on what?
Every CI system I've ever seem has pulled dependencies in from the network.
Every CI system I've ever seem has pulled dependencies in from the network.
git clone --recursive --branch "$commitid" "$repourl" "$repodir"
img="$(docker build --network=none -f "$dockerfile" "$repodir")"
docker run --rm -ti --network=none "$img"
Now try this with eg. OpenCV, or ONNX, or tflite, or a million other packages that try to download additional information at compile time.
Well there's you're problem; you're using packages written and maintained in an unsustainably insecure way.
It's been my experience that usually pull requests which make a library capable of being built offline are welcome. Usually. So get off your duff and get to fixing the problems in the free packages you use.
It's been my experience that usually pull requests which make a library capable of being built offline are welcome. Usually. So get off your duff and get to fixing the problems in the free packages you use.
Can you explain wtf is happening here?
After the CI system (with network access) pulls down the code, including submodules, this code is then placed into a container with no network access to perform the actual build.
I'd assumed some familiarity with common CI systems (and assumed the commands would be tailored to your use case). Let me walk it into some more depth.
First:
> git clone --recursive --branch "$commitid" "$repourl" "$repodir"
The `git clone` will take your git repository URL as the $repourl variable. It will also take your commit id (commit hash or tagged version which a pull request points to) as the $commitid variable (`--branch $commitid`). It will also take a $repodir variable which points to the directory that will contain the contents of the cloned git repository and already checked out at the commit id specified. It will do so recursively (`--recursive`): if there are submodules then they will also automatically be cloned.
This of course assumes that you're cloning a public repository and/or that any credentials required have already been set up (see `man git-config`).
Then:
> img="$(docker build --network=none -f "$dockerfile" "$repodir")"
Okay so this is sort've broken: you'd need a few more parameters to `docker build` to get it to work "right". But as-is, `docker build` usually has network access so `--network=none` will specify that the build process will not have access to the network. I hope your build system doesn't automatically download dependencies because that will fail (and also suggests that the build system may be susceptible to attack). You specify a dockerfile to build using `-f "$dockerfile"`. Finally, you specify the build context using "$repodir" -- and that assumes that your whole git repository should be available to the dockerfile.
However, `docker build` will write a lot more than just the image name to standard output and so this is where some customization would need to occur. Suffice to say that you can use `--quiet` if that's all you want; I do prefer to see the output because it normally contains intermediate image names useful for debugging the dockerfile.
Finally:
> docker run --rm -ti --network=none "$img"
Finally, it runs the built image in a new container with an auto-generated name. `-ti` here is wrong: it will attach a standard input/output terminal and so if it drops you into an interactive program (such as bash) then it could hang the CI process. But you can remove that. It also assumes that your dockerfile correctly specifies ENTRYPOINT and/or CMD. When the container has exited then the container will automatically be removed (--rm) -- usually they linger around and pollute your docker host. Finally, the --network=none also ensures that your container does not have network access so your unit tests should also be capable of running without the network or else they will fail. You could use `--volume` to specify a volume with data files if you need them. You might also want to look at `--user` if you don't want your container to have root privileges...
And of course if you want integration tests with other containers then you should create a dedicated docker network and specify its alias with `--network`: see `man docker-network-create`; you can use `docker network create -d internal` to create a network which shouldn't let containers out.
Does that answer your question?
First:
> git clone --recursive --branch "$commitid" "$repourl" "$repodir"
The `git clone` will take your git repository URL as the $repourl variable. It will also take your commit id (commit hash or tagged version which a pull request points to) as the $commitid variable (`--branch $commitid`). It will also take a $repodir variable which points to the directory that will contain the contents of the cloned git repository and already checked out at the commit id specified. It will do so recursively (`--recursive`): if there are submodules then they will also automatically be cloned.
This of course assumes that you're cloning a public repository and/or that any credentials required have already been set up (see `man git-config`).
Then:
> img="$(docker build --network=none -f "$dockerfile" "$repodir")"
Okay so this is sort've broken: you'd need a few more parameters to `docker build` to get it to work "right". But as-is, `docker build` usually has network access so `--network=none` will specify that the build process will not have access to the network. I hope your build system doesn't automatically download dependencies because that will fail (and also suggests that the build system may be susceptible to attack). You specify a dockerfile to build using `-f "$dockerfile"`. Finally, you specify the build context using "$repodir" -- and that assumes that your whole git repository should be available to the dockerfile.
However, `docker build` will write a lot more than just the image name to standard output and so this is where some customization would need to occur. Suffice to say that you can use `--quiet` if that's all you want; I do prefer to see the output because it normally contains intermediate image names useful for debugging the dockerfile.
Finally:
> docker run --rm -ti --network=none "$img"
Finally, it runs the built image in a new container with an auto-generated name. `-ti` here is wrong: it will attach a standard input/output terminal and so if it drops you into an interactive program (such as bash) then it could hang the CI process. But you can remove that. It also assumes that your dockerfile correctly specifies ENTRYPOINT and/or CMD. When the container has exited then the container will automatically be removed (--rm) -- usually they linger around and pollute your docker host. Finally, the --network=none also ensures that your container does not have network access so your unit tests should also be capable of running without the network or else they will fail. You could use `--volume` to specify a volume with data files if you need them. You might also want to look at `--user` if you don't want your container to have root privileges...
And of course if you want integration tests with other containers then you should create a dedicated docker network and specify its alias with `--network`: see `man docker-network-create`; you can use `docker network create -d internal` to create a network which shouldn't let containers out.
Does that answer your question?
Yes, thank you for the detailed explanation.
Oy, when I was starting we had it rough. Nexus filtering on every dependency repo, and that was if the proxy was up!
Luxury! When I were a youngun our devnet was airgapped and we had to sneakernet dependencies to it. Using vhs tape on a 9track spool. Because real tape was too expensive.
More seriously I've seen jenkins and gitlab pipelines with only access to sneakernet maintained mirrors.
Luxury! When I were a youngun our devnet was airgapped and we had to sneakernet dependencies to it. Using vhs tape on a 9track spool. Because real tape was too expensive.
More seriously I've seen jenkins and gitlab pipelines with only access to sneakernet maintained mirrors.
Our CI systems have read access to the data definition store (which is a sql database right now), because we don't store interop data definitions in code. So fully hermetic no, because our code (repository) is not fully self-contained. The definition store has its own audits and change tracking, but it's separate from the interface code.
That seems fine, in the same way that e.g. an XML library fetching DTDs from a known public URL is fine.
However, it'd probably be better if you could have the CI framework collect and inject that information into the build using some hard-coded deterministic logic, rather than giving the build itself (developer-driven Arbitrary Code Execution) access to that capability.
Same idea as e.g. injecting Kubernetes Secrets into Pods as env-vars at the controller level, rather than giving the Pod itself the permission to query Secrets out of the controller through its API.
However, it'd probably be better if you could have the CI framework collect and inject that information into the build using some hard-coded deterministic logic, rather than giving the build itself (developer-driven Arbitrary Code Execution) access to that capability.
Same idea as e.g. injecting Kubernetes Secrets into Pods as env-vars at the controller level, rather than giving the Pod itself the permission to query Secrets out of the controller through its API.
It is also possible to segment the build pipelines into separate CI and PR builds, where only CI builds have access to any secrets. The PR pipeline just builds and tests, and all of the other tasks only happen in CI once a change has been merged into the main branch. That mitigates the “random person creating a malicious PR” problem because it has to be accepted and merged before it can do anything bad.
Each environment should have its own keys for the services it is talking to so ideally this would restrict the scope of damage.
If you're using AWS you should just create separate accounts for each environment. This doesn't solve the issue of a compromised release orchestrator deploying malicious code to production. But it is helpful for other reasons: it reduces single points of failure, IAM policies becomes harder to over-scope, etc.
> Each environment should have its own keys for the services it is talking to so ideally this would restrict the scope of damage.
If a developer changes the CI pipeline file to make their PR's code run in `deployment: "production"` instead of `deployment: "test"` doesn't that bypass this?
Edit:
I'll leave my original question here because I think it's an important one but I answered this myself. It depends on which CI provider you're using but some of them do let you restrict specific deployments from being run only on specific branches or by specific folks (such as repo admins).
In the above case if the production deployment was only allowed to run on the main branch and the only way code makes its way into the main branch is after at least 1 person reviewed + merged it (or whatever policy your company wants) then a rogue developer can't edit the pipeline in an unreviewed PR to make something run in production.
Also with deployment specific environment variables then a rogue developer is also not able to edit a pipeline file to try and run commands that may affect production such as doing a `terraform apply` or pushing an unreviewed Docker image to your production registry.
If a developer changes the CI pipeline file to make their PR's code run in `deployment: "production"` instead of `deployment: "test"` doesn't that bypass this?
Edit:
I'll leave my original question here because I think it's an important one but I answered this myself. It depends on which CI provider you're using but some of them do let you restrict specific deployments from being run only on specific branches or by specific folks (such as repo admins).
In the above case if the production deployment was only allowed to run on the main branch and the only way code makes its way into the main branch is after at least 1 person reviewed + merged it (or whatever policy your company wants) then a rogue developer can't edit the pipeline in an unreviewed PR to make something run in production.
Also with deployment specific environment variables then a rogue developer is also not able to edit a pipeline file to try and run commands that may affect production such as doing a `terraform apply` or pushing an unreviewed Docker image to your production registry.
> If a developer changes the CI pipeline file to make their PR's code run in `deployment: "production"` instead of `deployment: "test"` doesn't that bypass this?
As a concrete example, GitLab has the concept of protected branches and code owners, both of which allow you to restrict access to the corresponding environments’ credentials to a smaller group of people who have permission to touch the sensitive branches. That allows you to say things like “anyone can run in development but only our release engineers can merge to staging/production” or “changes to the CI configuration must be approved by the DevOps team”, respectively.
That does, of course, not prevent someone from running a Bitcoin miner in whatever environment you use to run untrusted merge requests but that’s better than access to your production data.
As a concrete example, GitLab has the concept of protected branches and code owners, both of which allow you to restrict access to the corresponding environments’ credentials to a smaller group of people who have permission to touch the sensitive branches. That allows you to say things like “anyone can run in development but only our release engineers can merge to staging/production” or “changes to the CI configuration must be approved by the DevOps team”, respectively.
That does, of course, not prevent someone from running a Bitcoin miner in whatever environment you use to run untrusted merge requests but that’s better than access to your production data.
CI should only have environment variables needed for testing. For building/deploying to production, it just has to push the code/package/container image, not run it, meaning it has no need for production-level credentials.
CI should never ever have access to anything related to production; not just for security but also to prevent potentially bad code being run in tests from trashing production data.
CI should never ever have access to anything related to production; not just for security but also to prevent potentially bad code being run in tests from trashing production data.
The solution to that is simple: do not do any tests with production secrets :)
Wait. Isn't any CI step done before review expected to be configured for a test environment?
I'm failing to understand how that procedure even works. How do you run the tests?
I'm failing to understand how that procedure even works. How do you run the tests?
If there's malicious code already excepting with that level of privilege then, yes, you're pwn'd. However, I don't think that's what the main threat is. Probably the main threat is totally legitimate code, that has access to those variables, and now it may do something bad on accident.
It's sort of like how I tell my mom, "Even you don't want to know your passwords", when explaining that she should use a password manager. The reason in this case is because she may get fished and redirected to a fake website. If there's a password manager, and she doesn't even know her own password, then it won't recognize the certificate and she's safe. However, if she does know it, then she has the ability to leak it.
This is the same with environment variables, and a reason why secret storage is preferred over them. Think of environment variable as your mom knowing her password, and secret storage to her using a password manager. More or less haha.
It's sort of like how I tell my mom, "Even you don't want to know your passwords", when explaining that she should use a password manager. The reason in this case is because she may get fished and redirected to a fake website. If there's a password manager, and she doesn't even know her own password, then it won't recognize the certificate and she's safe. However, if she does know it, then she has the ability to leak it.
This is the same with environment variables, and a reason why secret storage is preferred over them. Think of environment variable as your mom knowing her password, and secret storage to her using a password manager. More or less haha.
Some CI systems like GitLab can protected against this. It allows that only maintainers can run highly privileged pipelines that expose secretes as env vars. Many systems mask or remove passwords (Gitlab, Rundeck etc.)
The article is more specific than that: They shouldn't be shared with code run by people/jobs who shouldn't have access to it. I.e. don't have secrets used for deploys in the environment that runs automatically on every PR if deploys are gated behind review by a more limited list of users.
> I mean, makes sense if your threat model includes people pushing malicious code to CI, but aren't you more or less done for at that point anyway?
Maybe. Back in the old days if you had the commit bit your badge didn’t get you into the server room. I get the impression a lot of shops are effectively giving their devs root but in the cloud this time, which isn’t necessary.
Maybe. Back in the old days if you had the commit bit your badge didn’t get you into the server room. I get the impression a lot of shops are effectively giving their devs root but in the cloud this time, which isn’t necessary.
say from everbody to all sec teams
We’ve been using Sysbox (https://github.com/nestybox/sysbox) for our Buildkite based CI/CD setup, allows docker-in-docker without privileged containers. Paired with careful IAM/STS design we’ve ended up with isolated job containers with their own IAM roles limited to least-privilege.
Never head of Sysbox before. At a first glance, the comparison table in their GitHub repo and on their website[1] has a number of inaccuracies which makes me question the quality of their engineering:
— They claim that their solution has the same isolation level ("4 stars") than gVisor, unlike "standard containers", which are "2 stars" only (with Firecracker and Kubevirt being "5 stars). This is very wrong - as far as I can tell, they use regular Linux namespaces with some light eBPF-based filesystem emulation, while the vast majority of syscalls is still handled by the host kernel. Sorry, but this is still "2 stars" and far away from the isolation guarantees provided by gVisor (fully emulating the kernel in userspace, which is at the same level or even better than Firecracker) and nowhere close to a VM.
— Somehow, regular VMs (Kubevirt) get a "speed" rating of only "2 stars" - worse than gVisor ("3 stars") and Firecracker ("4 stars"), even though they both rely on virtually the same virtualization technology. If anything, gVisor is the slowest but most efficient solution while QEMU maintains some performance advantage over Firecracker[2]. These are basically random scores, it's not a good first impression–if you do a detailed comparison like that, at least do a proper evaluation before giving your own product the best score!
— They claim that "standard containers" cannot run a full OS. This isn't true - while it's typically a bad idea, this works just fine with rootless podman and, more recently, rootless docker. Allowing this is the whole point of user namespaces, after all! Maybe their custom procfs does a better job of pretending to be a VM - but it's simply false that you can't do these things without. You can certainly run a full OS inside Kata/Firecracker, too, I've actually done that.
Nitpicking over rating scales aside, the claim that their solution offers large security improvements over any other solution with user namespaces isn't true and the whole thing seems very marketing-driven. The isolation offered by user namespaces is still very weak and not comparable to gVisor or Firecracker (both in production use by Google/AWS for untrusted workloads!). False marketing is a big red flag, especially for something as critical as a container runtime.
Anyone who wants unprivileged system containers might want to look into rootless docker or podman rather than this.
[1]: https://www.nestybox.com
[2]: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/nsdi20-paper-agache.pdf
— They claim that their solution has the same isolation level ("4 stars") than gVisor, unlike "standard containers", which are "2 stars" only (with Firecracker and Kubevirt being "5 stars). This is very wrong - as far as I can tell, they use regular Linux namespaces with some light eBPF-based filesystem emulation, while the vast majority of syscalls is still handled by the host kernel. Sorry, but this is still "2 stars" and far away from the isolation guarantees provided by gVisor (fully emulating the kernel in userspace, which is at the same level or even better than Firecracker) and nowhere close to a VM.
— Somehow, regular VMs (Kubevirt) get a "speed" rating of only "2 stars" - worse than gVisor ("3 stars") and Firecracker ("4 stars"), even though they both rely on virtually the same virtualization technology. If anything, gVisor is the slowest but most efficient solution while QEMU maintains some performance advantage over Firecracker[2]. These are basically random scores, it's not a good first impression–if you do a detailed comparison like that, at least do a proper evaluation before giving your own product the best score!
— They claim that "standard containers" cannot run a full OS. This isn't true - while it's typically a bad idea, this works just fine with rootless podman and, more recently, rootless docker. Allowing this is the whole point of user namespaces, after all! Maybe their custom procfs does a better job of pretending to be a VM - but it's simply false that you can't do these things without. You can certainly run a full OS inside Kata/Firecracker, too, I've actually done that.
Nitpicking over rating scales aside, the claim that their solution offers large security improvements over any other solution with user namespaces isn't true and the whole thing seems very marketing-driven. The isolation offered by user namespaces is still very weak and not comparable to gVisor or Firecracker (both in production use by Google/AWS for untrusted workloads!). False marketing is a big red flag, especially for something as critical as a container runtime.
Anyone who wants unprivileged system containers might want to look into rootless docker or podman rather than this.
[1]: https://www.nestybox.com
[2]: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/nsdi20-paper-agache.pdf
I don't spend a lot of time on those comparison-style charts if I'm honest, but that is good (and valid) feedback for them. I also hadn't heard of it, I discovered sysbox via jpettazo's updated post at https://jpetazzo.github.io/2015/09/03/do-not-use-docker-in-d..., he's an advisor of nestybox the company that develops sysbox.
For the CI/CD usecase on AWS, sysbox presented the right balance of trade-offs between something like Firecracker (which would require bare metal hosts on AWS) and the docker containers that already existed. We specifically need to run privileged containers so that we could run docker-in-docker for CI workloads, so rootless docker or podman wouldn't have helped. Sysbox lets us do that with a significant improvement in security to just running privileged docker containers as most CI environments end up doing.
Just switching their docker-in-docker CI job containers to sysbox would have mitigated 4 of the compromises from the article with nearly zero other configuration changes.
For the CI/CD usecase on AWS, sysbox presented the right balance of trade-offs between something like Firecracker (which would require bare metal hosts on AWS) and the docker containers that already existed. We specifically need to run privileged containers so that we could run docker-in-docker for CI workloads, so rootless docker or podman wouldn't have helped. Sysbox lets us do that with a significant improvement in security to just running privileged docker containers as most CI environments end up doing.
Just switching their docker-in-docker CI job containers to sysbox would have mitigated 4 of the compromises from the article with nearly zero other configuration changes.
> We specifically need to run privileged containers so that we could run docker-in-docker for CI workloads, so rootless docker or podman wouldn't have helped.
rootless docker works inside an unprivileged container (that's how our CI works).
rootless docker works inside an unprivileged container (that's how our CI works).
How do you run rootless docker in unprivileged container ? Here it says that the privilege is still a must.
https://docs.docker.com/engine/security/rootless/#rootless-d...
https://docs.docker.com/engine/security/rootless/#rootless-d...
> They claim that "standard containers" cannot run a full OS. ... this works just fine with rootless podman and, more recently, rootless docker.
> Anyone who wants unprivileged system containers might want to look into rootless docker or podman rather than this.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I have been running full OS userlands using "standard containers" in production for years, via LXD[1].
[1]: https://linuxcontainers.org/
> Anyone who wants unprivileged system containers might want to look into rootless docker or podman rather than this.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I have been running full OS userlands using "standard containers" in production for years, via LXD[1].
[1]: https://linuxcontainers.org/
LXD is great, but one nice feature of Sysbox is that it's an OCI-based runtime, and therefore integrates with Docker, K8s, etc. In a way, Sysbox turns Docker containers or Kubernetes pods into LXD-like containers, although there are differences.
LXD uses privileged containers, though - this exposes a lot more attack surface, since uid 0 inside the container equals uid 0 outside.
That’s not true:
> By default containers are unprivileged […]
https://linuxcontainers.org/lxd/docs/master/security/#contai...
As for LXC:
> LXC containers can be of two kinds:
> - Privileged containers
> - Unprivileged containers
> […]
> The latter has been introduced back in LXC 1.0 (February 2014) […]
https://linuxcontainers.org/lxc/security/
> By default containers are unprivileged […]
https://linuxcontainers.org/lxd/docs/master/security/#contai...
As for LXC:
> LXC containers can be of two kinds:
> - Privileged containers
> - Unprivileged containers
> […]
> The latter has been introduced back in LXC 1.0 (February 2014) […]
https://linuxcontainers.org/lxc/security/
It can do both. https://linuxcontainers.org/lxc/security/
I have always used it for unprivileged containers, and I remember using it as such in 2016. IIRC both podman and rootless docker are much more recent.
Thanks for the feedback; I am one of the developers of Sysbox. Some answers to the above comments:
- Regarding the container isolation, Sysbox uses a combination of Linux user-namespace + partial procfs & sysfs emulation + intercepting some sensitive syscalls in the container (using seccomp-bpf). It's fair to say that gVisor performs better isolation on syscalls, but it's also fair to say that by adding Linux user-ns and procfs & sysfs emulation, Sysbox isolates the container in ways that gVisor does not. This is why we felt it was fair to put Sysbox at a similar isolation rating as gVisor, although if you view it from purely a syscall isolation perspective it's fair to say that gVisor offers better isolation. Also, note that Sysbox is not meant to isolate workloads in multi-tenant environments (for that we think VM-based approaches are better). But in single-tenant environments, Sysbox does void the need for privileged containers in many scenarios because it allows well isolated containers/pods to run system workloads such as Docker and even K8s (which is why it's often used in CI infra).
- Regarding the speed rating, we gave Firecracker a higher speed rating than KubeVirt because while they both use hardware virtualization, the latter run microVMs that are highly optimized and have much less overhead that full VMs that typically run on KubeVirt. While QEMU may be faster than Firecracker in some metrics in a one-instance comparison, when you start running dozens of instances per host, the overhead of the full VM (particularly memory overhead) hurts its performance (which is the reason Firecracker was designed).
- Regarding gVisor performance, we didn't do a full performance comparison vs. KubeVirt, so we may stand corrected if gVisor is in fact slower than KubeVirt when running multiple instances on the same host (would appreciate any more info you may have on such a comparison, we could not find one).
- Regarding the claim that standard containers cannot run a full OS, what the table in the GH repo is indicating is that Sysbox allows you to create unprivileged containers (or pods) that can run system software such as Docker, Kubernetes, k3s, etc. with good isolation and seamlessly (no privileged container, no changes in the software inside the container, and no tricky container entrypoints). To the best of our knowledge, it's not possible to run say Kubernetes inside a regular container unless it's a privileged container with a custom entrypoint. Or inside a Firecracker VM. If you know otherwise, please let us know.
- Regarding "The claim that their solution offers large security improvements over any other solution with user namespaces isn't true". Where do you see that claim? The table explicitly states that there are solutions that provide stronger isolation.
- Regarding "The isolation offered by user namespaces is still very weak and not comparable to gVisor or Firecracker". User namespaces by itself mitigates several recent CVEs for containers, so it's a valuable feature. It may not offer VM-level isolation, but that's not what we are claiming. Furthermore, Sysbox uses the user-ns as a baseline, but adds syscall interception and procfs & sysfs emulation to further harden the isolation.
- "False marketing is a big red flag, especially for something as critical as a container runtime." That's not what we are doing.
- Rootless Docker/Podman are great, but they work at a different level than Sysbox. Sysbox is an enhanced "runc", and while Sysbox itself runs as true root on the host (i.e., Sysbox is not rootless), the containers or pods it creates are well isolated and void the need for privileged containers in many scenarios. This is why several companies use it in production too.
- Regarding the container isolation, Sysbox uses a combination of Linux user-namespace + partial procfs & sysfs emulation + intercepting some sensitive syscalls in the container (using seccomp-bpf). It's fair to say that gVisor performs better isolation on syscalls, but it's also fair to say that by adding Linux user-ns and procfs & sysfs emulation, Sysbox isolates the container in ways that gVisor does not. This is why we felt it was fair to put Sysbox at a similar isolation rating as gVisor, although if you view it from purely a syscall isolation perspective it's fair to say that gVisor offers better isolation. Also, note that Sysbox is not meant to isolate workloads in multi-tenant environments (for that we think VM-based approaches are better). But in single-tenant environments, Sysbox does void the need for privileged containers in many scenarios because it allows well isolated containers/pods to run system workloads such as Docker and even K8s (which is why it's often used in CI infra).
- Regarding the speed rating, we gave Firecracker a higher speed rating than KubeVirt because while they both use hardware virtualization, the latter run microVMs that are highly optimized and have much less overhead that full VMs that typically run on KubeVirt. While QEMU may be faster than Firecracker in some metrics in a one-instance comparison, when you start running dozens of instances per host, the overhead of the full VM (particularly memory overhead) hurts its performance (which is the reason Firecracker was designed).
- Regarding gVisor performance, we didn't do a full performance comparison vs. KubeVirt, so we may stand corrected if gVisor is in fact slower than KubeVirt when running multiple instances on the same host (would appreciate any more info you may have on such a comparison, we could not find one).
- Regarding the claim that standard containers cannot run a full OS, what the table in the GH repo is indicating is that Sysbox allows you to create unprivileged containers (or pods) that can run system software such as Docker, Kubernetes, k3s, etc. with good isolation and seamlessly (no privileged container, no changes in the software inside the container, and no tricky container entrypoints). To the best of our knowledge, it's not possible to run say Kubernetes inside a regular container unless it's a privileged container with a custom entrypoint. Or inside a Firecracker VM. If you know otherwise, please let us know.
- Regarding "The claim that their solution offers large security improvements over any other solution with user namespaces isn't true". Where do you see that claim? The table explicitly states that there are solutions that provide stronger isolation.
- Regarding "The isolation offered by user namespaces is still very weak and not comparable to gVisor or Firecracker". User namespaces by itself mitigates several recent CVEs for containers, so it's a valuable feature. It may not offer VM-level isolation, but that's not what we are claiming. Furthermore, Sysbox uses the user-ns as a baseline, but adds syscall interception and procfs & sysfs emulation to further harden the isolation.
- "False marketing is a big red flag, especially for something as critical as a container runtime." That's not what we are doing.
- Rootless Docker/Podman are great, but they work at a different level than Sysbox. Sysbox is an enhanced "runc", and while Sysbox itself runs as true root on the host (i.e., Sysbox is not rootless), the containers or pods it creates are well isolated and void the need for privileged containers in many scenarios. This is why several companies use it in production too.
Thank you for taking the time to reply - happy to discuss this! :)
> It's fair to say that gVisor performs better isolation on syscalls, but it's also fair to say that by adding Linux user-ns and procfs & sysfs emulation, Sysbox isolates the container in ways that gVisor does not.
Have a look at what gVisor actually does: https://gvisor.dev/docs/architecture_guide/security
It fully implements a subset of the Linux kernel ABI in userspace, including procfs and sysfs and even memory and process management. No untrusted code ever interacts with the host kernel. Filesystem and network access goes through an IPC protocol and is handled by the gVisor processes on the host, which in turns runs inside a user namespace and a seccomp sandbox for defense in depth.
This is a much, much stronger level of isolation than your approach or, arguably, even VMs (the trade-off is performance). "Sysbox isolates the container in ways that gVisor does not" just isn't true.
The sysbox approach is one kernel bug away from host system compromise, same as using regular containers. Emulating procfs and sysfs and using user namespaces takes away some of the attack surface and is great defense in depth, but does not provide isolation from the host kernel.
> Also, note that Sysbox is not meant to isolate workloads in multi-tenant environments (for that we think VM-based approaches are better)
I've read numerous claims that sysbox is suitable for untrusted workloads, for instance in [1] and [2].
It's a nice product and certainly much, much better than running docker-in-docker using privileged containers, but given the significant remaining attack surface, this claim could put your customers at risk and should come with a big disclaimer.
> While QEMU may be faster than Firecracker in some metrics in a one-instance comparison, when you start running dozens of instances per host, the overhead of the full VM (particularly memory overhead) hurts its performance (which is the reason Firecracker was designed)
Firecracker was designed for memory efficiency, faster cold start times and security (by virtue of being written in a memory-safe language). It means you can run more containers per host, but the actual workload performance overhead is identical to "normal" VMs and, in some cases, even slightly higher since Firecracker lacks some of the optimization that has gone into QEMU.
> Regarding gVisor performance, we didn't do a full performance comparison vs. KubeVirt, so we may stand corrected if gVisor is in fact slower than KubeVirt when running multiple instances on the same host (would appreciate any more info you may have on such a comparison, we could not find one).
KubeVirt is just plain QEMU VMs using libvirt, which have been compared to gVisor quite extensively[3][4]. There's almost no overhead for memory/CPU and quite a lot of overhead for syscalls (but with big improvements recently with the introduction of VFS2 and soon LisaFS[5]). It's a classic trade-off - gVisor is more secure and efficient than QEMU, allowing a much larger number of instances to run on a host by virtue of better cooperation with the host kernel scheduler and memory management, but for raw performance, a QEMU VM always wins.
> Regarding the claim that standard containers cannot run a full OS, what the table in the GH repo is indicating is that Sysbox allows you to create unprivileged containers (or pods) that can run system software such as Docker, Kubernetes, k3s, etc. with good isolation and seamlessly (no privileged container, no changes in the software inside the container, and no tricky container entrypoints). To the best of our knowledge, it's not possible to run say Kubernetes inside a regular container unless it's a privileged container with a custom entrypoint. Or inside a Firecracker VM. If you know otherwise, please let us know.
Firecracker runs a full Linux kernel inside the VM, so it could always run regular Docker, Kubernetes or anything else. See [6] for a practical example.
For containers, this used to be the case, but the situation improved in recent kernel releases.
For podman, almost every combination works - running systemd unprivileged, running podman inside podman, or even running rootless-podman-in-rootless-podman[7] and so does Kubernetes-in-rootless-{podman,docker}[8] (requiring very recent kernel features, though - notably cgroupsv2 and unprivileged overlayfs).
Running docker:dind-rootless inside unprivileged Docker containers also works, however, it requires "--security-opt seccomp=unconfined".
Sysbox definitely got to that point earlier and has better usability.
> - Regarding "The claim that their solution offers large security improvements over any other solution with user namespaces isn't true". Where do you see that claim? The table explicitly states that there are solutions that provide stronger isolation.
Apologies, then, for misinterpreting that.
[1]: https://blog.nestybox.com/2020/10/06/related-tech-comparison...
[2]: https://github.com/nestybox/sysbox/issues/120#issuecomment-9...
[3]: https://object-storage-ca-ymq-1.vexxhost.net/swift/v1/6e4619...
[4]: https://www.scitepress.org/Papers/2021/104405/104405.pdf
[5]: https://gvisor.dev/blog/2021/12/02/running-gvisor-in-product...
[6]: https://github.com/innobead/kubefire
[7]: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/podman-inside-container
[8]: https://kind.sigs.k8s.io/docs/user/rootless
> It's fair to say that gVisor performs better isolation on syscalls, but it's also fair to say that by adding Linux user-ns and procfs & sysfs emulation, Sysbox isolates the container in ways that gVisor does not.
Have a look at what gVisor actually does: https://gvisor.dev/docs/architecture_guide/security
It fully implements a subset of the Linux kernel ABI in userspace, including procfs and sysfs and even memory and process management. No untrusted code ever interacts with the host kernel. Filesystem and network access goes through an IPC protocol and is handled by the gVisor processes on the host, which in turns runs inside a user namespace and a seccomp sandbox for defense in depth.
This is a much, much stronger level of isolation than your approach or, arguably, even VMs (the trade-off is performance). "Sysbox isolates the container in ways that gVisor does not" just isn't true.
The sysbox approach is one kernel bug away from host system compromise, same as using regular containers. Emulating procfs and sysfs and using user namespaces takes away some of the attack surface and is great defense in depth, but does not provide isolation from the host kernel.
> Also, note that Sysbox is not meant to isolate workloads in multi-tenant environments (for that we think VM-based approaches are better)
I've read numerous claims that sysbox is suitable for untrusted workloads, for instance in [1] and [2].
It's a nice product and certainly much, much better than running docker-in-docker using privileged containers, but given the significant remaining attack surface, this claim could put your customers at risk and should come with a big disclaimer.
> While QEMU may be faster than Firecracker in some metrics in a one-instance comparison, when you start running dozens of instances per host, the overhead of the full VM (particularly memory overhead) hurts its performance (which is the reason Firecracker was designed)
Firecracker was designed for memory efficiency, faster cold start times and security (by virtue of being written in a memory-safe language). It means you can run more containers per host, but the actual workload performance overhead is identical to "normal" VMs and, in some cases, even slightly higher since Firecracker lacks some of the optimization that has gone into QEMU.
> Regarding gVisor performance, we didn't do a full performance comparison vs. KubeVirt, so we may stand corrected if gVisor is in fact slower than KubeVirt when running multiple instances on the same host (would appreciate any more info you may have on such a comparison, we could not find one).
KubeVirt is just plain QEMU VMs using libvirt, which have been compared to gVisor quite extensively[3][4]. There's almost no overhead for memory/CPU and quite a lot of overhead for syscalls (but with big improvements recently with the introduction of VFS2 and soon LisaFS[5]). It's a classic trade-off - gVisor is more secure and efficient than QEMU, allowing a much larger number of instances to run on a host by virtue of better cooperation with the host kernel scheduler and memory management, but for raw performance, a QEMU VM always wins.
> Regarding the claim that standard containers cannot run a full OS, what the table in the GH repo is indicating is that Sysbox allows you to create unprivileged containers (or pods) that can run system software such as Docker, Kubernetes, k3s, etc. with good isolation and seamlessly (no privileged container, no changes in the software inside the container, and no tricky container entrypoints). To the best of our knowledge, it's not possible to run say Kubernetes inside a regular container unless it's a privileged container with a custom entrypoint. Or inside a Firecracker VM. If you know otherwise, please let us know.
Firecracker runs a full Linux kernel inside the VM, so it could always run regular Docker, Kubernetes or anything else. See [6] for a practical example.
For containers, this used to be the case, but the situation improved in recent kernel releases.
For podman, almost every combination works - running systemd unprivileged, running podman inside podman, or even running rootless-podman-in-rootless-podman[7] and so does Kubernetes-in-rootless-{podman,docker}[8] (requiring very recent kernel features, though - notably cgroupsv2 and unprivileged overlayfs).
Running docker:dind-rootless inside unprivileged Docker containers also works, however, it requires "--security-opt seccomp=unconfined".
Sysbox definitely got to that point earlier and has better usability.
> - Regarding "The claim that their solution offers large security improvements over any other solution with user namespaces isn't true". Where do you see that claim? The table explicitly states that there are solutions that provide stronger isolation.
Apologies, then, for misinterpreting that.
[1]: https://blog.nestybox.com/2020/10/06/related-tech-comparison...
[2]: https://github.com/nestybox/sysbox/issues/120#issuecomment-9...
[3]: https://object-storage-ca-ymq-1.vexxhost.net/swift/v1/6e4619...
[4]: https://www.scitepress.org/Papers/2021/104405/104405.pdf
[5]: https://gvisor.dev/blog/2021/12/02/running-gvisor-in-product...
[6]: https://github.com/innobead/kubefire
[7]: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/podman-inside-container
[8]: https://kind.sigs.k8s.io/docs/user/rootless
Thanks again for the detailed response.
> Have a look at what gVisor actually does
I am aware of what it does, though I had missed the fact that the Sentry and/or Gopher run within a user-ns (could not find this in the docs). Had also missed the fact that it does perform procfs/sysfs emulation (makes sense), so I stand corrected on that. In light of this, I'll modify the Sysbox GH table to show gVisor as having a stronger isolation rating (in fact, our Sysbox blog comparing technologies [1] did give gVisor a stronger isolation rating).
> the sysbox approach is one kernel bug away from host system compromise
All approaches are one bug away from host system compromise (gVisor, VMs, etc.), though I agree that approaches like gVisor and VMs have a reduced attack surface.
> I've read numerous claims that sysbox is suitable for untrusted workloads
It's not a black or white determination in my view. Users choose based on their environments & needs. We always make it clear to our users that VM-based approaches provide stronger isolation, per the Sysbox GH repo:
"Isolation wise, it's fair to say that Sysbox containers provide stronger isolation than regular Docker containers (by virtue of using the Linux user-namespace and light-weight OS shim), but weaker isolation than VMs (by sharing the Linux kernel among containers)."
> Firecracker runs a full Linux kernel inside the VM, so it could always run regular Docker, Kubernetes or anything else
That's good to know (thanks), though the table in the Sysbox GH repo meant to compare Sysbox against Kata + Firecracker (since Kata is a container runtime). To the best of my knowledge running Docker, K8s, k3s, etc. inside a Kata container is not easy (see [1] and [2]).
> For containers, this used to be the case, but the situation improved in recent kernel releases.
It's correct that rootless docker/podman approaches are improving as far as what workloads they can run inside containers, although they still have several limitations [3], [4].
With Sysbox, most of these limitations don't apply because the solution works at the more basic "runc" level, Sysbox itself is rootful, and it uses some of the techniques I mentioned before (user-ns, procfs & sysfs virtualization, syscall trapping, UID-shifting, etc.) to make the container resemble a "real host" while providing good isolation.
Good discussion, please let me know of any more feedback.
[1] https://github.com/kata-containers/kata-containers/issues/20... [2] https://github.com/daniel-noland/docker-in-kata [3] https://docs.docker.com/engine/security/rootless/#known-limi... [4] https://github.com/containers/podman/blob/main/rootless.md
> Have a look at what gVisor actually does
I am aware of what it does, though I had missed the fact that the Sentry and/or Gopher run within a user-ns (could not find this in the docs). Had also missed the fact that it does perform procfs/sysfs emulation (makes sense), so I stand corrected on that. In light of this, I'll modify the Sysbox GH table to show gVisor as having a stronger isolation rating (in fact, our Sysbox blog comparing technologies [1] did give gVisor a stronger isolation rating).
> the sysbox approach is one kernel bug away from host system compromise
All approaches are one bug away from host system compromise (gVisor, VMs, etc.), though I agree that approaches like gVisor and VMs have a reduced attack surface.
> I've read numerous claims that sysbox is suitable for untrusted workloads
It's not a black or white determination in my view. Users choose based on their environments & needs. We always make it clear to our users that VM-based approaches provide stronger isolation, per the Sysbox GH repo:
"Isolation wise, it's fair to say that Sysbox containers provide stronger isolation than regular Docker containers (by virtue of using the Linux user-namespace and light-weight OS shim), but weaker isolation than VMs (by sharing the Linux kernel among containers)."
> Firecracker runs a full Linux kernel inside the VM, so it could always run regular Docker, Kubernetes or anything else
That's good to know (thanks), though the table in the Sysbox GH repo meant to compare Sysbox against Kata + Firecracker (since Kata is a container runtime). To the best of my knowledge running Docker, K8s, k3s, etc. inside a Kata container is not easy (see [1] and [2]).
> For containers, this used to be the case, but the situation improved in recent kernel releases.
It's correct that rootless docker/podman approaches are improving as far as what workloads they can run inside containers, although they still have several limitations [3], [4].
With Sysbox, most of these limitations don't apply because the solution works at the more basic "runc" level, Sysbox itself is rootful, and it uses some of the techniques I mentioned before (user-ns, procfs & sysfs virtualization, syscall trapping, UID-shifting, etc.) to make the container resemble a "real host" while providing good isolation.
Good discussion, please let me know of any more feedback.
[1] https://github.com/kata-containers/kata-containers/issues/20... [2] https://github.com/daniel-noland/docker-in-kata [3] https://docs.docker.com/engine/security/rootless/#known-limi... [4] https://github.com/containers/podman/blob/main/rootless.md
Could you elaborate a bit more how you get the containers into their own IAM roles?
Yup, we have a sidecar process/container that runs for each job and assumes an AWS IAM Role for that specific pipeline (with constraints like whether it’s an approved PR as well). The credentials are provided to the job container via a volume mount. This allows us to have shared agents with very granular roles per-pipeline and job.
Not sure if this applies to the parent, but one way this Buildkite
Queues map pipelines to agents. Agents can be assigned IAM roles. If you want a certain build to run as an IAM role, you give it a queue where the agents have that role. For AWS, Buildkite has as a Cloud Formation stack that sets up auto scaling groups and some other resources for your agents to run.
Queues map pipelines to agents. Agents can be assigned IAM roles. If you want a certain build to run as an IAM role, you give it a queue where the agents have that role. For AWS, Buildkite has as a Cloud Formation stack that sets up auto scaling groups and some other resources for your agents to run.
Most CI systems will have some way of assigning builds to groups of agents. But it would in some cases be useful to grant different privileges to different containers running on the same agent, which is what I understood OP to have.
AWS has IAM service accounts for containers. Comes for free with EKS, not sure how you’d do it without EKS.
Basically it adds a signed web identity file into the container which can be used to assume roles.
Basically it adds a signed web identity file into the container which can be used to assume roles.
Amazon ECS also offers task roles which do the same thing: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonECS/latest/developerguide/...
Many of these points are about running pipelines in privileged containers. Something I actually took extra time to resolve for my team. That's when I discovered kaniko first, and shortly after podman/buildah.
After that podman and buildah have gotten a lot of great reviews from people so I think they're awesome.
For an old time Unix sysadmin it just doesn't make sense to run something as root unless you absolutely have to.
Which also makes the client excuse in the article so strange, they had to run the container privileged to run static code analysis. wtf. Doesn't that just mean they run a tool against a binary artefact from a previous job? I fail to see how that requires privileges.
After that podman and buildah have gotten a lot of great reviews from people so I think they're awesome.
For an old time Unix sysadmin it just doesn't make sense to run something as root unless you absolutely have to.
Which also makes the client excuse in the article so strange, they had to run the container privileged to run static code analysis. wtf. Doesn't that just mean they run a tool against a binary artefact from a previous job? I fail to see how that requires privileges.
If you start fresh would you use Kaniko or Podman? Trying to find out the best way to avoid docker —privileged on custom Gitlab runner
This is a great resource. I'd love to see more reports like it published. CI/CD pipelines often run with highly elevated permissions (access to source code, artifact repositories, and production environments), but they are traditionally neglected.
I suspect this is also an under considered area even in organizations with lots of attention to security. So would be good to also get more mindshare, as after we discovered some of our own CI/CD related vulnerabilities[1], it feels like most approaches we looked at had similar problems, and it took alot of research to find the rare solution that we could be confident in.
[1] - https://goteleport.com/blog/hack-via-pull-request/
[1] - https://goteleport.com/blog/hack-via-pull-request/
Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt....
We had this "deploy" Jenkins box set up with limited access for devs, because it had assume-role privs to an IAM role to manage AWS infra with Terraform. The devs run their tests on a different Jenkins box, and when they pass, they upload artifacts to a repo and trigger this "deploy" Jenkins box to promote the new build to prod. The devs can do their own CI, but CD is on a box they don't have access to, hence less chance for accidental credential leakage. Me being Mr. Devops-play-nice-with-the-devs, I let them issue PRs against the CD box's repo. Commits to PRs get run on the deploy Jenkins in a stage environment to validate the changes.
This one dev wanted to change something in AWS. But for whatever reason, they didn't ask me (maybe because they knew I'd say no, or at least ask them about it?). So instead the dev opens a PR against the CD jobs, proposing some syntax change. Then the dev modifies a script which was being included as part of the CD jobs, and makes the script download some binaries and make AWS API calls (I found out via CloudTrail). Once they've made the calls, they rewrite Git history to remove the AWS API commits and force-push to the PR branch, erasing evidence that the code was ever issued. Then close the PR with "need to refactor".
In the morning I'm looking through my e-mail, and see all these GitHub commits with code that looks like it's doing something in AWS... and I go look at the PR, and the code in my e-mails isn't anyware in any of the commits. He actually tried to cover it up. And I would never have known about any of this if I hadn't enabled 'watching' on all commits to the repo.
Who'd have thought e-mail would be the best append-only security log?
We had this "deploy" Jenkins box set up with limited access for devs, because it had assume-role privs to an IAM role to manage AWS infra with Terraform. The devs run their tests on a different Jenkins box, and when they pass, they upload artifacts to a repo and trigger this "deploy" Jenkins box to promote the new build to prod. The devs can do their own CI, but CD is on a box they don't have access to, hence less chance for accidental credential leakage. Me being Mr. Devops-play-nice-with-the-devs, I let them issue PRs against the CD box's repo. Commits to PRs get run on the deploy Jenkins in a stage environment to validate the changes.
This one dev wanted to change something in AWS. But for whatever reason, they didn't ask me (maybe because they knew I'd say no, or at least ask them about it?). So instead the dev opens a PR against the CD jobs, proposing some syntax change. Then the dev modifies a script which was being included as part of the CD jobs, and makes the script download some binaries and make AWS API calls (I found out via CloudTrail). Once they've made the calls, they rewrite Git history to remove the AWS API commits and force-push to the PR branch, erasing evidence that the code was ever issued. Then close the PR with "need to refactor".
In the morning I'm looking through my e-mail, and see all these GitHub commits with code that looks like it's doing something in AWS... and I go look at the PR, and the code in my e-mails isn't anyware in any of the commits. He actually tried to cover it up. And I would never have known about any of this if I hadn't enabled 'watching' on all commits to the repo.
Who'd have thought e-mail would be the best append-only security log?
Our deploy scripts make a call to a separate box that actually does the deployment, ostensibly to avoid this sort of problem and have some more control over simultaneous deployments. But it is very hard to explain to anyone how to diagnose a deployment failure on such a system, and once in a while the log piping gets gummed up and you don't get any status reports until the job completes.
I've maybe managed to explain this process to one other extant employee, so pretty much everybody bugs me or one of the operations people any time there's an issue. That could be a liability in an outage situation, but I don't have a concrete suggestion how to avoid this sort of thing.
I've maybe managed to explain this process to one other extant employee, so pretty much everybody bugs me or one of the operations people any time there's an issue. That could be a liability in an outage situation, but I don't have a concrete suggestion how to avoid this sort of thing.
Can you enable just enough access on the deploy box so people can go view the logs there, and do nothing else? As opposed to shipping logs off the box, which I assume is what's getting gummed up
I'm very curious at to what happened next. How did the conversation go with the dev and did they get to keep their job?
I didn't tell his boss. I did tell my boss, in an e-mail with evidence. We both had a little chat with the dev where we made it clear that if this happened under slightly different circumstances (if he was trying to access data/systems he wasn't supposed to, if it was one of the HIPAA accounts, etc) he'd not only be shitcanned, he'd be facing serious legal consequences. We were satisfied by his reaction and didn't push it further.
I was actually fired early in my career as a contractor when an over-zealous security big-wig decided to go over my boss's boss's head. I had punched a hole in the firewall to look at Reddit, and because I also had a lot of access, this meant I wasn't trustworthy and had to go. People (like me) make stupid mistakes; we should give them a second chance.
I was actually fired early in my career as a contractor when an over-zealous security big-wig decided to go over my boss's boss's head. I had punched a hole in the firewall to look at Reddit, and because I also had a lot of access, this meant I wasn't trustworthy and had to go. People (like me) make stupid mistakes; we should give them a second chance.
Thanks for sharing, i think how you handled it was quite compassionate. if i ever run into this situation, i have a playbook.
I wouldn't say they are traditionally neglected, precisely. CI/CD systems are often treated as a place where devs hold infinite power with developer convenience prioritized above all else. Developers, who are generally not security experts, often expect to wholly own their build and deployment processes.
I've seen few things get engineer pushback quite like trying to tell engineers that they need to rework how they build and deploy because someone outside their team said so. It's just dev, not production, so why should they be so paranoid about it? Sheesh, stop screwing up their perfectly good workflows...
I've seen few things get engineer pushback quite like trying to tell engineers that they need to rework how they build and deploy because someone outside their team said so. It's just dev, not production, so why should they be so paranoid about it? Sheesh, stop screwing up their perfectly good workflows...
Is it just my impression or security in Jenkins seems much more challenging and more time-consuming than in GitLab?
This post gives many examples where GitLab was attacked, so of course bad practices like privileged containers can lead to the compromise of a server independently by the technology used, but from my experience with Jenkins, I've seen using passwords in plaintext so many times, even in big companies.
Jenkins is security game over if you overlook a small crucial configuration option or if you install any plugin (and it's unusable without some plugins), as plugin development is a free-for-all and dependencies between plugins are many. We basically decided that one instance of Jenkins plus slaves was unfixable and unconfigurable to use securely across multiple teams with developers of differing trust levels (external contributors vs normal in-house devs) and started fresh with a different CI design.
Jenkins is a batteries excluded pattern in one of its worst possible incarnations.
Jenkins is basically a CI framework for trusted users only. Untrusted workloads must not have access to anything Jenkins.
Jenkins is a batteries excluded pattern in one of its worst possible incarnations.
Jenkins is basically a CI framework for trusted users only. Untrusted workloads must not have access to anything Jenkins.
I don’t really like either. Both have traditionally been bad & related to on-prem legacy workloads. Building for SVN apps or teams new to git. It’s usually a mess.
As someone adjacently interested in the field: care to elaborate on what systems you do like? It's always interesting to get new perspectives.
We've been happy with buildkite and hashicorp vault. One nice feature we've leveraged in our CI is that vault lets us revoke tokens after use, so we have very short lived tokens and they're made that much shorter by having the jobs clean up after themselves.
going cloud native (AWS/GCP/Asure) & using their build tools makes things simple for things like container management and integrated development.
GitHub because it’s better UX. It’s even quite simple to setup good automation around a codebase.
Platform teams are using Argo, dev teams not really doing too much ci/cd which I like.
& to be honest CI/CD requires continuous investment as things continuously change. Not that it isn’t necessary… but in an enterprise environment you I’ve seen teams become more successful on their own rather than trying to fulfill any “reciprocity” bs.
GitHub because it’s better UX. It’s even quite simple to setup good automation around a codebase.
Platform teams are using Argo, dev teams not really doing too much ci/cd which I like.
& to be honest CI/CD requires continuous investment as things continuously change. Not that it isn’t necessary… but in an enterprise environment you I’ve seen teams become more successful on their own rather than trying to fulfill any “reciprocity” bs.
Jenkins was also affected by numerous Java serialization vulnerabilities. It also used to be that any worker could escalate to the main Jenkins server pretty much by design, not sure what the current situation is.
> but from my experience with Jenkins, I've seen using passwords in plaintext so many times, even in big companies
I reckon this has to do with how the CI tools are configured.
Everyone knows you shouldn't commit a secret to Git, so tools like GitLab CI which require all their config be in git naturally will see less of this specific issue.
I reckon this has to do with how the CI tools are configured.
Everyone knows you shouldn't commit a secret to Git, so tools like GitLab CI which require all their config be in git naturally will see less of this specific issue.
Jenkins is a tire fire, and security is just one of their tires on fire. Every aspect of it encourages bad practices.
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You would think by now we would have better credential methods. I still see username and passwords for system credentials. I see tokens created by three legged auths. I don’t get how that is an improvement. The problem is that most deployed code doesn’t have just one credential but a dozen. Multiply that with several environments and you get security fatigue and apathy.
The company I currently do contract work for, decided it would be best to have one large team in Azure DevOps and subdivide all teams in repositories etc with prefixes and homegrown "Governer" scripts, which are enforced in all pipelines.
Global find on some terms like "key", "password" etc were great fun. It really showed most people, our team included, struggled with getting the pipeline to work at all. Let alone doing it in a secure manner.
This is a 50k+ employee financial institute. I am honestly surprised these kind of attacks are not much more widespread.
Global find on some terms like "key", "password" etc were great fun. It really showed most people, our team included, struggled with getting the pipeline to work at all. Let alone doing it in a secure manner.
This is a 50k+ employee financial institute. I am honestly surprised these kind of attacks are not much more widespread.
A recurring theme is that they obtain secret credentials from a service which needs to verify credentials, and then turn around and use those to impersonate the entity providing those credentials. For example getting Jenkins to run some Groovy discovers credentials Jenkins uses to verify who is accessing it, and then you can just use those credentials yourself.
To fix this - almost anywhere - stop using shared secrets. Every time you visit a (HTTPS) web site, you are provided with the credentials to verify its identity. But, you don't gain the ability to impersonate the site because they're not secret credentials, they're public. You can and should use this in a few places in typical CI / CD type infrastructure today, and we should be encouraging other services to enable it too ASAP.
In a few places they mention MFA. Again, most MFA involves secrets, for example TOTP Relying Parties need to know what code you should be typing in, so, they need the seed from which to generate that code, and attackers can steal that seed. WebAuthn doesn't involve secrets, so, attackers who steal WebAuthn credentials don't achieve anything. Unfortunately chances are you enabled one or more vulnerable credential types "just in case"...
To fix this - almost anywhere - stop using shared secrets. Every time you visit a (HTTPS) web site, you are provided with the credentials to verify its identity. But, you don't gain the ability to impersonate the site because they're not secret credentials, they're public. You can and should use this in a few places in typical CI / CD type infrastructure today, and we should be encouraging other services to enable it too ASAP.
In a few places they mention MFA. Again, most MFA involves secrets, for example TOTP Relying Parties need to know what code you should be typing in, so, they need the seed from which to generate that code, and attackers can steal that seed. WebAuthn doesn't involve secrets, so, attackers who steal WebAuthn credentials don't achieve anything. Unfortunately chances are you enabled one or more vulnerable credential types "just in case"...
A weakness of modern secret management is that it isn’t.
A secret value ought to be very carefully guarded even from the host machine itself.
.NET for example has SecureString, which is a good start — it can’t be accidentally printed or serialised insecurely. If it is serialised, then it is automatically encrypted by the host OS data protection API.
Windows even has TPM-hosted certificates! They’re essentially a smart card plugged into the motherboard.
A running app can use a TPM credential to sign requests but it can’t read or copy it.
These advancements are just completely ignored in the UNIX world, where everything is blindly copied into easily accessible locations in plain text…
A secret value ought to be very carefully guarded even from the host machine itself.
.NET for example has SecureString, which is a good start — it can’t be accidentally printed or serialised insecurely. If it is serialised, then it is automatically encrypted by the host OS data protection API.
Windows even has TPM-hosted certificates! They’re essentially a smart card plugged into the motherboard.
A running app can use a TPM credential to sign requests but it can’t read or copy it.
These advancements are just completely ignored in the UNIX world, where everything is blindly copied into easily accessible locations in plain text…
Except afaict SecureString doesn't reliably do that and shouldn't be used. https://github.com/dotnet/platform-compat/blob/master/docs/D...
“It’s not perfectly secure so use a totally insecure alternative instead” seems like terrible advice.
No it's "don't use this thing which doesn't do what it says on the tin and is therefore a foot gun." Something that is obviously insecure will be treated with more caution / put on the correct side of the authorization boundary compared to something that claims to be.
> "obviously insecure will be treated with more caution"
What planet are you from and can I go there?
SecureString provides one layer in the "defence in depth". If someone accidentally logs it, then it won't leak. If it is used as a script parameter, then the prompt will use password input characters automatically.
Seriously, I want you to try this PowerShell snippet right now. (You can even run it on Linux too with pwsh v7, so no excuses!):
There's even low-level protection built-in, such zeroing out the memory when it is garbage collected (unlike normal strings).
Why is this a bad thing!?
Do you like secrets leaking everywhere unless everyone is always hyper vigilant? Or do you prefer to roll your own half-baked secret storage type that nothing else is compatible with?
PS: The page with that advice is based on an "archived" read-only repo with a bunch of open issues of people befuddled as to why this bad, BAD, BAD advice is being published there.
What planet are you from and can I go there?
SecureString provides one layer in the "defence in depth". If someone accidentally logs it, then it won't leak. If it is used as a script parameter, then the prompt will use password input characters automatically.
Seriously, I want you to try this PowerShell snippet right now. (You can even run it on Linux too with pwsh v7, so no excuses!):
PARAM(
[parameter(Mandatory=$true)]
[securestring]$Secret
)
Write-Warning "Oops I didn't mean to log this: $Secret"
$Secret | ConvertTo-Json -Compress
$Secret | Export-Clixml 'accidental serialisation.xml'
Get-Content 'accidental serialisation.xml'
There's even low-level protection built-in, such zeroing out the memory when it is garbage collected (unlike normal strings).
Why is this a bad thing!?
Do you like secrets leaking everywhere unless everyone is always hyper vigilant? Or do you prefer to roll your own half-baked secret storage type that nothing else is compatible with?
PS: The page with that advice is based on an "archived" read-only repo with a bunch of open issues of people befuddled as to why this bad, BAD, BAD advice is being published there.
Absolutely.
Secrets are awesome part of pwsh. You also have `Get-Secret` and friends for full blown pass-like solution.
Secrets are awesome part of pwsh. You also have `Get-Secret` and friends for full blown pass-like solution.
They're not really a part of "pwsh", the SecureString type is built in to the .NET Framework, and has been before PowerShell existed.
One of the many reasons I detest stringly-typed programming is that many small things become difficult, including (but not limited to) the handling of secrets.
One of the many reasons I detest stringly-typed programming is that many small things become difficult, including (but not limited to) the handling of secrets.
> The credentials gave the NCC Group consultant access as a limited user to the Jenkins Master web login UI which was only accessible internally and not from the Internet. After a couple of clicks and looking around in the cluster they were able to switch to an administrator account.
These kinds of statements are giving major "draw the rest of the owl" vibes.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/572/078/d6d...
These kinds of statements are giving major "draw the rest of the owl" vibes.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/572/078/d6d...
This is exactly why I both love and hate CI/CD.
Ultimately most CI/CD setups are basically systems administrators with privileged access to everything, network connected and running 24/7. It's pretty dangerous stuff.
I don't have an answer though, expect maybe to keep the CI and CD in separate, isolated instances that require manual intervention to bridge the gap on a case by case basis. That doesn't scale very well though.
Ultimately most CI/CD setups are basically systems administrators with privileged access to everything, network connected and running 24/7. It's pretty dangerous stuff.
I don't have an answer though, expect maybe to keep the CI and CD in separate, isolated instances that require manual intervention to bridge the gap on a case by case basis. That doesn't scale very well though.
I think in general we put too much logic into our CI/CD configurations.
There is an argument to be made for a minimalist CI/CD implementation that can handle task scheduling and dependencies, understands how to fetch and tag version control, count version numbers and not much else. Even extracting test result summaries, while handy, maybe should be handled another way.
For many of us, if CI is down you can't deploy anything to production, not even roll back to a previous build. Everything but the credentials should be under version control, and the right people should be able to fire off a one-liner from a runbook that has two to four sanity checked arguments in order to trigger a deployment.
There is an argument to be made for a minimalist CI/CD implementation that can handle task scheduling and dependencies, understands how to fetch and tag version control, count version numbers and not much else. Even extracting test result summaries, while handy, maybe should be handled another way.
For many of us, if CI is down you can't deploy anything to production, not even roll back to a previous build. Everything but the credentials should be under version control, and the right people should be able to fire off a one-liner from a runbook that has two to four sanity checked arguments in order to trigger a deployment.
A place I was at recently used makefiles in each project containing entries for "build", "deploy", "test" etc. All the CI did was use shared generic jobs to call the relevant makefile command.
These could just as easily be run from a developers machine with the right credentials.
These could just as easily be run from a developers machine with the right credentials.
I strongly recommend this. Put all the CICD machinery inside the dev repos, letting all the devs see, understand, and modify the pipeline.
With carefully chosen creds, Devs can run the CICD things directly, thus making feedback loops much faster in certain circumstances. Maybe don't let them delete databases, or run expensive VMs, but other than that go for it.
In my experience if the pipeline is even slightly different Devs will treat it as a foreign object and will whine about it not working the way they want... they don't feel like they can change the pipeline, which is odd. Dude, it's code, just change it, I'm happy to approve your PR and/or help you make a change.
With carefully chosen creds, Devs can run the CICD things directly, thus making feedback loops much faster in certain circumstances. Maybe don't let them delete databases, or run expensive VMs, but other than that go for it.
In my experience if the pipeline is even slightly different Devs will treat it as a foreign object and will whine about it not working the way they want... they don't feel like they can change the pipeline, which is odd. Dude, it's code, just change it, I'm happy to approve your PR and/or help you make a change.
> I strongly recommend this. Put all the CICD machinery inside the dev repos, letting all the devs see, understand, and modify the pipeline.
I disagree with this 1,000%. This is a massive security risk.
From an InfoSec perspective it's a massive security risk because it implies the developers have access to AWS API's directly, otherwise how could they modify the pipeline or even engage it, when it manipulates infrastructure?
And that's not even to mention all the other security implications that come with allowing developers to edit a pipeline... holy s-... I don't even want to imagine the chaos brought about by a quick edit to the `.gitlab-ci.yml` file that runs `terraform destroy -auto-approve` an hour before handing in one's notice.
And no, code reviews aren't a sufficient barrier on their own.
This is just such a bad idea on so many levels.
> In my experience if the pipeline is even slightly different Devs will treat it as a foreign object and will whine about it not working the way they want...
Who cares? That's not how DevOps works. It's not how a business works. Everyone has a part to play and it's not always going to be comfortable. Operations specialists are just that: specialists at handling the operations. Let them do it, just as they let developers use the tools they want or handle things the way they see best.
Comfort doesn't apply.
I disagree with this 1,000%. This is a massive security risk.
From an InfoSec perspective it's a massive security risk because it implies the developers have access to AWS API's directly, otherwise how could they modify the pipeline or even engage it, when it manipulates infrastructure?
And that's not even to mention all the other security implications that come with allowing developers to edit a pipeline... holy s-... I don't even want to imagine the chaos brought about by a quick edit to the `.gitlab-ci.yml` file that runs `terraform destroy -auto-approve` an hour before handing in one's notice.
And no, code reviews aren't a sufficient barrier on their own.
This is just such a bad idea on so many levels.
> In my experience if the pipeline is even slightly different Devs will treat it as a foreign object and will whine about it not working the way they want...
Who cares? That's not how DevOps works. It's not how a business works. Everyone has a part to play and it's not always going to be comfortable. Operations specialists are just that: specialists at handling the operations. Let them do it, just as they let developers use the tools they want or handle things the way they see best.
Comfort doesn't apply.
We're talking about putting all the code except credentials (or with revocable credentials) where developers can see it.
IMO, the worst CI/CD tool on the market is Bamboo, and I've been using CI since you had to edit an XML file and restart.
And the reason for that is information hiding. The Bamboo UI is completely undiscoverable. All of the things you can do with it are buried in the docs. Anything you don't have permission to do is eliminated from the UI, so unless you RTFM you don't even know what tools you have available to solve problems.
IMO, the worst CI/CD tool on the market is Bamboo, and I've been using CI since you had to edit an XML file and restart.
And the reason for that is information hiding. The Bamboo UI is completely undiscoverable. All of the things you can do with it are buried in the docs. Anything you don't have permission to do is eliminated from the UI, so unless you RTFM you don't even know what tools you have available to solve problems.
A distributed system is one where the failure of a machine you've never heard of stops you from getting any work done. - Leslie Lamport
... via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
... via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
>>In our final scenario, the NCC Group consultant got booked on a scenario-based assessment:
>>“Pretend you have compromised a developer’s laptop.”
Most companies will fail right here. Especially outside of the tech world security hygiene with developer's laptops is very bad from what I have seen.
>>“Pretend you have compromised a developer’s laptop.”
Most companies will fail right here. Especially outside of the tech world security hygiene with developer's laptops is very bad from what I have seen.
> a hardcoded git command with a credential was revealed
cries in security
cries in security
reminds me of tons docker tutorials, where all of them are doing default password in plaintext in docker-compose file
I put devonly: as part of every placeholder secret in docker-compose.yml or similar config that is committed to Git. The goal is a developer who has just cloned the repo should be able to run the setup script and have the whole system running with random seed data without futzing with copying secrets from coworkers.
> I put devonly: as part of every placeholder secret in docker-compose.yml or similar config that is committed to Git. The goal is a developer who has just cloned the repo should be able to run the setup script and have the whole system running with random seed data without futzing with copying secrets from coworkers.
This problem is solvable without hard coding env variables into your docker-compose.yml file.
You can commit an .env.example file to version control which has non-secret defaults set so that all a developer has to do is run `cp .env.example .env` before `docker-compose up --build` and they're good to go.
There's examples of this in all of my Docker example apps for Flask, Rails, Django, Phoenix, Node and Play at: https://github.com/nickjj?tab=repositories&q=docker-*-exampl...
It's nice because it also means the same docker-compose.yml file can be used in dev vs prod. The only thing that changes are a few environment variables.
This problem is solvable without hard coding env variables into your docker-compose.yml file.
You can commit an .env.example file to version control which has non-secret defaults set so that all a developer has to do is run `cp .env.example .env` before `docker-compose up --build` and they're good to go.
There's examples of this in all of my Docker example apps for Flask, Rails, Django, Phoenix, Node and Play at: https://github.com/nickjj?tab=repositories&q=docker-*-exampl...
It's nice because it also means the same docker-compose.yml file can be used in dev vs prod. The only thing that changes are a few environment variables.
> *I put devonly: as part of every placeholder secret in docker-compose.yml or similar config that is committed to Git.&
I put it `insecure`. I think it makes it clear that the password, and file, aren't secure by default and should be treated as such.
I put it `insecure`. I think it makes it clear that the password, and file, aren't secure by default and should be treated as such.
With buildkit Docker now has support for secrets natively with `--secret`. This mounts a file that will only be exposed during build.
Some thoughts:
1. Hardcoded credentials are a plague. You should consider tagging all of your secrets so that they're easier to scan for. Github automatically scans for secrets, which is great.
2. Jenkins is particularly bad for security. I've seen it owned a million and one times.
3. Containers are overused as a security boundary and footguns like `--privileged` completely eliminate any boundary.
4. Environment variables are a dangerous place to store secrets - they're global to the process and therefor easy to leak. I've thought about this a lot lately, especially after log4j. I think one pattern that may help is clearing the variables after you've loaded them into memory.
Another I've considered is encrypting the variables. A lot of the time what you have is something like this:
Secret Store -> Control Plane Agent -> Container -> Process
Where secrets flow from left to right. The control plane agent and container have full access to the credentials and they're "plaintext" in the Process's environment.
In theory you should be able to pin the secrets to that process with a key. During your CD phase you would embed a private key into the process's binary (or a file on the container) and then tell your Secret Manager to use the associated public key to transmit the secrets. The process could decrypt those secrets with its private key but they're E2E encrypted across any hops between the Secret Store and Process and they can't be leaked without explicitly decrypting them first.