Fourth journalist killed in Mexico this year(axios.com)
axios.com
Fourth journalist killed in Mexico this year
https://www.axios.com/fourth-journalist-killed-mexico-january-2022-f71e872d-ddee-452e-9ed4-e7ba5c13a86e.html
52 comments
Mexico is a scary place. Violence and or the threat of violence reigns supreme. People are afraid to be outside at night. Every scalable wall is covered either with broken glass or razor wire.
When I lived on the border I was at a family gathering once and was mingling with some folks who used to do business in Mexico. These are all legal and normal businesses run by people with ties to Mexico -- friends or family on both sides, completely bilingual, etc. One by one they were recounting their "The time I decided to close shop and stop going to Mexico..." and I was impressed -- every single story was effectively "Fear local police will kill me". My friend's dad was held at gunpoint, forced to go to an ATM and withdrawl cash, then driven out to middle of nowhere where they pretended they were going to kill him for fun. Like -- super petty lawlessness stuff. Not high brow "send a message" cartel activity. Totally nuts.
These kinds of stories aren't hard to find in people that immigrate from border towns on the Mexican side to the other -- they are everywhere. It made me so sad to live on the border for multiple years and feel too unsafe to ever venture over.
These kinds of stories aren't hard to find in people that immigrate from border towns on the Mexican side to the other -- they are everywhere. It made me so sad to live on the border for multiple years and feel too unsafe to ever venture over.
Uh like the United States is too right? [0],[1],[2],[3]?
0, https://www.dailynews.com/2021/12/28/parents-of-girl-14-kill...
1, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/matthew-wi...
2, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th...
3, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_S...
0, https://www.dailynews.com/2021/12/28/parents-of-girl-14-kill...
1, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/matthew-wi...
2, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th...
3, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_S...
If by "like" you mean "1/6th as much", then yes. Homicides per year per 100.000 inhabitants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...):
Mexico: 29.1
United States: 5.0
Czech Republic: 0.6Homicide is a local phenomenon that national statistics don't really convey.
The homicide rate (per 100,000) for a few cities in the US:
The homicide rate (per 100,000) for a few cities in the US:
New Orleans, LA - 30.5
Detroit, MI - 41.5
St Louis, MO - 64.5> The homicide rate (per 100,000) for a few cities in the US
And a few in México, for comparison:
Tijuana, B.C.: 134.2
Ciudad Juárez, Chih: 104.5
Uruapan, Mich.: 85.5
(These are also the top 3 in the world for cities not notionally at war, and the next 3, plus one more of the top 10, are also in México.)
And a few in México, for comparison:
Tijuana, B.C.: 134.2
Ciudad Juárez, Chih: 104.5
Uruapan, Mich.: 85.5
(These are also the top 3 in the world for cities not notionally at war, and the next 3, plus one more of the top 10, are also in México.)
The obvious retort is don't go to those cities. I've never heard anyone pitch a relaxing holiday in Juarez.
On the other hand, there are plenty of cities in Mexico with lower rates than major cities in the US. I've had perfectly lovely times in New Orleans and St Louis, despite the murder rate. I've also had perfectly lovely times in:
If you're comfortable in Baltimore or Detroit, you should be vastly more comfortable with most of the cities in Mexico.
"Country XYZ has more murder hotspots" is a useless metric. One of the parent comments said "Mexico is a scary place. Violence and or the threat of violence reigns supreme. People are afraid to be outside at night. Every scalable wall is covered either with broken glass or razor wire." That is nonsense, it's a huge country and very little of it looks like Juarez.
On the other hand, there are plenty of cities in Mexico with lower rates than major cities in the US. I've had perfectly lovely times in New Orleans and St Louis, despite the murder rate. I've also had perfectly lovely times in:
Zacatecas 43.0
Morelia 39.7
Guadalajara 38.07If you're comfortable in Baltimore or Detroit, you should be vastly more comfortable with most of the cities in Mexico.
"Country XYZ has more murder hotspots" is a useless metric. One of the parent comments said "Mexico is a scary place. Violence and or the threat of violence reigns supreme. People are afraid to be outside at night. Every scalable wall is covered either with broken glass or razor wire." That is nonsense, it's a huge country and very little of it looks like Juarez.
Wouldn’t it make sense then to also provide the rates for the worst cities in Mexico?
No, because the vast majority of the country doesn't look like the worst cities.
If I said "St Louis is a scary place. Violence and or the threat of violence reigns supreme. People are afraid to be outside at night. Every scalable wall is covered either with broken glass or razor wire." you'd rightfully call bullshit.
If I said "St Louis is a scary place. Violence and or the threat of violence reigns supreme. People are afraid to be outside at night. Every scalable wall is covered either with broken glass or razor wire." you'd rightfully call bullshit.
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Weird comment. Your first two links are of accidental and out-of-the-ordinary homicides, which are not really 'scary' or an indication of violent society.
The first two are symptoms, the two last are national statistics. I don't see this as weird, but I will take it, I love being weird!
Your claim and links are the classic example of using scary specific cases and anecdotes to extrapolate an argument while ignoring statistical and general tendencies. Mexico's homicide rate is several times higher than that of the U.S. as a whole and the two countries simply don't compare in terms of insecurity, at all. Nor do they compare in sheer crappiness of police response. People may complain about U.S police having their major flaws (and rightly so in many cases) but the police in Mexico are a whole different story of ineptitude, corruption, danger and in the least case, simply not showing up to do their most basic job. Also, there are many, many mass shootings in Mexico, almost weekly, sometimes even daily in fact, it's just that they garner little or no major media attention and that they happen under different contexts.
While I can agree that it is several order magnitude higher in Mexico. That does not change my point. Also the links from Wikipedia are statistics on a national level, so I am not cherry picking data. Let's remind of what my point is: it is bad in Mexico, AND it is bad in the United States.
I disagree. Generally it is not terrible in the U.S. and it's much, much worse in Mexico. Truly you miss the basic point on the differences between violence down here and what happens up north. There are certain U.S. cities with abysmal murder rates due to certain parts of them, granted, but most people living in most of the country are incredibly safe and can can count on remarkably effective justice/police institutions from their government compared to the majority of what's the case in Mexico. For much of the U.S. murder rates by area or state are at western European levels. Your comparison is off base enough to be a case of whatsaboutism.
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I lived in Mexico for a few years but decided to leave last year after getting married and having a child. It's an awful place if you value things like safety, health, education, infrastructure, and most importantly, the rule of law.
For me all the news reports of kidnappings and violence were just background noise until it hit close to home. My wife's sister-in-laws family was kidnapped and badly beaten to the point where her brother developed a permanent mental handicap. They were released and are now scrambling to immigrate to the US.
In a separate incident, the person who organized our wedding was also kidnapped but never found.
These types of cases are so common here that they don't even make the news, whether local or national.
For me all the news reports of kidnappings and violence were just background noise until it hit close to home. My wife's sister-in-laws family was kidnapped and badly beaten to the point where her brother developed a permanent mental handicap. They were released and are now scrambling to immigrate to the US.
In a separate incident, the person who organized our wedding was also kidnapped but never found.
These types of cases are so common here that they don't even make the news, whether local or national.
What city was this in?
Every state and city in Mexico can be a different story, but it seems to change every year. Guadalajara seemed safe a few years ago and is now considered dangerous, for example. Yucatan seems like it has been safe for a decade.
Every state and city in Mexico can be a different story, but it seems to change every year. Guadalajara seemed safe a few years ago and is now considered dangerous, for example. Yucatan seems like it has been safe for a decade.
Both kidnapping cases were in towns in Jalisco, not too far from Lake Chapala.
Interesting. Chapala is a major gringo enclave and it’s got a rep for being safe.
I happen to live here. The degree of danger depends enormously on where you live and what you do. Not everywhere is this dangerous and not everything is covered in razor wire and broken glass. This is not at all to downplay the grotesque degree of violence that permeates much of Mexico, but a bit of perspective on specifics helps. I do night street photography as a hobby, for example, and in many years of that, wandering the streets of several Mexican cities during late night hours (carefully but not with utter paranoia) I've never once been assaulted or physically threatened so far.
USA has a country with a de-facto slow going civil war on its border, and it doesn't seem to even notice.
[deleted]
It does. Trump even offered to send marines. But was rejected
What a nice guy.
When has letting US Soldiers in ever helped a country?
The "Defense Department" doesn't care about freedom. The State Department doesn't care about freedom.
They are extensions of US Corporations, the State Department leaks showed that loud and clear. Corporations only care about control and extraction. If you let US Soldiers into your country, you are ceding control of it to multinational corporations.
And you do realize that the worst of the modern cartels were trained by the US Military and US Intelligence in the "School of the Americas" in espionage, counterespionage, guerilla warfare, asymmetric warfare?
The cherry on top: US Soldiers in another country can rape and murder with impunity. They are immune to prosecution, legally and practically.
And even if you bring in the soldiers... Look at Afghanistan and it's poppy fields. Our little puppet government was producing opiates for the entire world, controlled by Karzai's family. We setup a Narco state. And you think we'll waltz into Mexico and fix things with M-16s and F-35s?
What Mexico needs is decriminalization of drugs in the USA. I used to be opposed to any degrees of legalization because the most abused drugs are the legal ones. But the US needs to deal with its addiction problems itself, without causing a civil war in Mexico and Central America and everywhere else it sources its drugs.
It's what makes the anti-immigrant stance of the right wing so infuriating. How much illegal immigration is the creation of the right wing war on drugs? You think people are traveling the length of Mexico from Central America because it is an easy and safe trip?
When has letting US Soldiers in ever helped a country?
The "Defense Department" doesn't care about freedom. The State Department doesn't care about freedom.
They are extensions of US Corporations, the State Department leaks showed that loud and clear. Corporations only care about control and extraction. If you let US Soldiers into your country, you are ceding control of it to multinational corporations.
And you do realize that the worst of the modern cartels were trained by the US Military and US Intelligence in the "School of the Americas" in espionage, counterespionage, guerilla warfare, asymmetric warfare?
The cherry on top: US Soldiers in another country can rape and murder with impunity. They are immune to prosecution, legally and practically.
And even if you bring in the soldiers... Look at Afghanistan and it's poppy fields. Our little puppet government was producing opiates for the entire world, controlled by Karzai's family. We setup a Narco state. And you think we'll waltz into Mexico and fix things with M-16s and F-35s?
What Mexico needs is decriminalization of drugs in the USA. I used to be opposed to any degrees of legalization because the most abused drugs are the legal ones. But the US needs to deal with its addiction problems itself, without causing a civil war in Mexico and Central America and everywhere else it sources its drugs.
It's what makes the anti-immigrant stance of the right wing so infuriating. How much illegal immigration is the creation of the right wing war on drugs? You think people are traveling the length of Mexico from Central America because it is an easy and safe trip?
I agree with most of what you said, United States doesn't care about happiness or peace of foreign countries, only power and influence.
But anti immigration has nothing right wing. Bernie fucking Sanders called it Koch brothers policy. Obama and Biden campaign against it. Obama built the cages. If you want to be treated seriously stop being partisan otherwise you just come across as a cnn watcher with no real grasp on things.
But anti immigration has nothing right wing. Bernie fucking Sanders called it Koch brothers policy. Obama and Biden campaign against it. Obama built the cages. If you want to be treated seriously stop being partisan otherwise you just come across as a cnn watcher with no real grasp on things.
These stories should be accompanied by whatever the journalist was researching that made them a target. I've never heard of Roberto Toledo until now, and my only knowledge of him shouldn't be that he's dead.
Searching his name says that he was a cameraman and his employer was "reporting on corrupt administration and corrupt officials" but surely this is the time to be specific.
Searching his name says that he was a cameraman and his employer was "reporting on corrupt administration and corrupt officials" but surely this is the time to be specific.
Per the Reuters article linked in this one[1], the outlet he worked at "had been receiving threats, which it reported to local authorities, as a result of its sustained reporting on corruption in local government."
[1]: https://www.reuters.com/article/mexico-violence/mexican-medi...
[1]: https://www.reuters.com/article/mexico-violence/mexican-medi...
Oh man, reporting to _local authorities_ on _local authorities_ corruption, what do you do?
Great idea on surfacing reports that was worked on of killed journalists.
Great idea on surfacing reports that was worked on of killed journalists.
I know movies and books make many reporter's into these individuals going at things alone; Cavalier and protected by brawn or a history.
I agree with the parent comment. It just worries me because, how many sources, scared insiders have also been taken out? What is the full homicide rate for 2022 in Mexico? Not just the 'reporters?' If research breaks and it's not sound enough, what are the addition casualties?
I agree with the parent comment. It just worries me because, how many sources, scared insiders have also been taken out? What is the full homicide rate for 2022 in Mexico? Not just the 'reporters?' If research breaks and it's not sound enough, what are the addition casualties?
What tremendous courage reporters such as these must have to do their work.
Yeah, that was the same PR statement my quote was from. "Somewhere in Michoacan there's corruption" isn't very specific.
Perhaps they simply don't dare to be more specific ...
It's possible, and I wouldn't blame them if that's their reason. My issue with that is that they then didn't take the death threats seriously, and still put some tacit blame on the local administration.
So they willingly risked their employees lives, and after someone got killed they protect their own neck but still sort of hint their employees will continue the actions.
So they willingly risked their employees lives, and after someone got killed they protect their own neck but still sort of hint their employees will continue the actions.
U.S. journalists don’t have the courage to do journalism anymore. They wouldn’t dare go against the grain, let alone be specific on corruption.
Mexican journalists should migrate, and report on both U.S. and Mexican government corruption without the threat of overt assassination.
Mexican journalists should migrate, and report on both U.S. and Mexican government corruption without the threat of overt assassination.
This is a ridiculous comment thread, the linked article is what 150 words? Why the fuss about the level of detail? That’s best left to other publications.
Because they're unlikely to ever have this level of coverage again. I've never heard of this paper, and probably will never hear more details about this murder.
Torifyme12(3)
I'm wondering if this is intentionally 1 per week.
Wow, I completely forgot that the year just switched over. 4 in a month is even worse :(
They don't seem to include "missing", they say there are 15 missing journalists.
I'd like to see bravery of this sort be more wide-spread.
How are the cartels not designated as terrorist organizations?
Mexican drug cartels are not terrorists because their goal is to maximize profit, not fundamentally change society and politics.