NYC Mayor demands CEOs end work from home as economy struggles(forbes.com)
forbes.com
NYC Mayor demands CEOs end work from home as economy struggles
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/02/17/new-york-city-mayor-eric-adams-calls-for-companies-to-quickly-bring-workers-back-to-the-office/
76 comments
What a great example of pulling back the curtain just a little to reveal how much of our lives are manufactured and what they could be like if we didn't bend to these pressures.
Another, more sustainable, option is to make it more pleasant to live in downtown areas. NYC probably doesn’t have this issue as much as others, but plenty of smaller cities were completely dead on the weekends because few actually live downtown. It’s way more sustainable to have neighborhoods built on many small businesses and hundreds of families. If a small business shuts down or someone moves out, it doesn’t have a huge impact on the overall neighborhood. Compare to huge businesses employing thousands. If they move, it is obviously devastating to the local economy because this one entity was the bedrock of the town. (Especially a thing in lots of smaller towns and cities!)
NYC doesn’t have that problem maybe, but many cities will have to deal with this shift, and the solution isn’t to be regressive but to start finding new ways to make these places vibrant.
NYC doesn’t have that problem maybe, but many cities will have to deal with this shift, and the solution isn’t to be regressive but to start finding new ways to make these places vibrant.
The square mile in London is deserted at the weekend (despite presumably most of the offices having some occupants). I’d say this is more about businesses having to adapt to what people want rather than forcing people to behave in certain ways.
My wife and I live in smaller cities for her job. Well we will in the suburbs.
We've always found it odd how we see these news stories of the local downtown dying yet, they all offer nothing of value to many on the evenings and weekends.
We've always found it odd how we see these news stories of the local downtown dying yet, they all offer nothing of value to many on the evenings and weekends.
Districts in Manhattan have that problem, and are indeed dead after 9 to 5 hours.
Makes no sense. Plenty of folks live in Manhattan.
They're probably mainly thinking about Midtown East, which is almost purely an office hub and indeed pretty empty on weekends. It's kinda nice being there and feeling eerily alone.
It used to be FiDi was the same, but it's become pretty residential. Still, I know many restaurants there that only open M-F, especially on the eastern side where fewer tourists venture.
Everywhere else in Manhattan is sufficiently residential enough (or in the case of Midtown, touristy enough) to be lively on nights and weekends.
It used to be FiDi was the same, but it's become pretty residential. Still, I know many restaurants there that only open M-F, especially on the eastern side where fewer tourists venture.
Everywhere else in Manhattan is sufficiently residential enough (or in the case of Midtown, touristy enough) to be lively on nights and weekends.
Though NYC is expensive.
NYC is rare among American cities in that they impose their own income tax separately from state and federal income taxes. And it applies not just to residents but also to workers who commute in from outside the city. If those employees keep working from home in Connecticut or New Jersey then they no longer have to pay the NYC tax. So I suspect the Mayor is starting to panic about his budget deficit.
Philadelphia recently changed their enforcement of the "City Wage Tax" to protect against such things. If you were hired for a position in the city you must pay the tax if your WFH is 40 miles from city limits. They're currently threatening all business small and large with an audit if they don't comply. We've been through four different accounting firms who all told us the same thing.
It's unfortunate but it's still better than paying the tax and making the commute.
It's unfortunate but it's still better than paying the tax and making the commute.
They’ll just move that “position” out of the city (what does that even mean) or be outcompeted by a company that does.
I highly suspect that New York City and other cities who take a massive tax hit due to a lack of office workers will promptly introduce new tax laws to remedy that.
San Francisco is having the same issue - they are taking a major hit in taxes due to a lack of commutors.
San Francisco is having the same issue - they are taking a major hit in taxes due to a lack of commutors.
The NYC income tax does not apply to non-residents: https://www.tax.ny.gov/pit/file/nonresident-faqs.htm#nonresi... (edit: linked to clearer section in the FAQ)
This is mostly correct. Prior to 1999 individuals who worked in NYC were required to pay the ~2% income tax regardless of residency. This included people from NJ and CT. They're no longer subject to the tax (the reverse is untrue; I live in NYC and work in NJ, but I'm still required to pay NYC income tax). Historically this was known as the "commuter tax."
Since 2009 residents of NY who live in counties adjacent to NYC are subject to a 0.34% tax if they work in NYC. I believe this tax does not go toward general NYC operations, but rather helps fund the mass-transit that supports their commute. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_tax
Since 2009 residents of NY who live in counties adjacent to NYC are subject to a 0.34% tax if they work in NYC. I believe this tax does not go toward general NYC operations, but rather helps fund the mass-transit that supports their commute. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_tax
So wait, you basically get taxed extra for working in NYC. I didn't know that.
Reeks of desperation. Companies that offer a fully remote option will be able to better attract top talent. Ridiculous how the argument is basically “Even though you are capable of working wherever you like, we will force you to live and work in a particular location because the powerful want your money and time outside of work as well.” Hopefully some leaders will see beyond the absurdity.
Louis Rossmann, who pay $13,000 per month for his place, has posted MULTIPLE videos where he goes around looking at shops in NYC which are tiny, and how, despite demand being down and supply being up, have actually INCREASED their asking rate, which makes no sense.
The local govt is asking people back because they run on NYC property taxes, but both them and the property needs to learn that rates needs to come back to reality.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkVbIsAWN2lvV4KY2Ag7r...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkVbIsAWN2lt_n88l7WC2...
The local govt is asking people back because they run on NYC property taxes, but both them and the property needs to learn that rates needs to come back to reality.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkVbIsAWN2lvV4KY2Ag7r...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkVbIsAWN2lt_n88l7WC2...
NYC real estate is really overrated. There are literally fourteen coats of paint on my kitchen going back to the 1950s - it’s been white, beige, red, yellow, green, and sky blue at various times in its existence. I found I had a dedicated circuit for a window air conditioner - the socket had been filled with putty and painted over at least four times, I hired an electrician to dig it out and now I no longer blow a fuse when my refrigerator and air conditioner both run on a hot day. I did say fuses - until two years ago I still had a fuse panel and a box of spare Edison S-type fuses standing by in case one blew at night. Getting a circuit breaker panel was the best day ever - ironically just two weeks after I found a vendor on Amazon that sold breakers that fit the S-type fuse sockets. A luxury apartment in NYC is one where the baseboard molding meets the floor instead of leaving quarter inch gap for all the vermin to crawl out of the walls at night. My solution was to fill all the gaps with silicon bathtub sealant, still allows for movement but keeps out stuff with more then two legs. It really bothers me that my doctor and dentist have offices with the same gaps - I can only guess what crawls around at night.
The internet was more than a way to shop or a way to read what people had to say or video calls with grandma. The internet can restructure the way people organize and interact, and if it can, it will. Cities are built on the premise that people must live in close proximity to interact with one another. A whole cottage industry of rent seekers has sprung up around this necessity, some business models with centuries of history. Whole cities have built their structure on a necessity that no longer exists.
I expect a wave of deurbanization in the coming century, where humans spread through the unsettled landscape in smaller, less densely populated communities, and most professional, information heavy work being done remotely. Most of these cities will become ruins.
I expect a wave of deurbanization in the coming century, where humans spread through the unsettled landscape in smaller, less densely populated communities, and most professional, information heavy work being done remotely. Most of these cities will become ruins.
> I expect a wave of deurbanization in the coming century, where humans spread through the unsettled landscape in smaller, less densely populated communities, and most professional, information heavy work being done remotely. Most of these cities will become ruins.
Sounds great. As someone who deeply dislikes large, noisy polluted cities I think a move back to smaller communities whereby everyone knows each other is a positive thing.
Sounds great. As someone who deeply dislikes large, noisy polluted cities I think a move back to smaller communities whereby everyone knows each other is a positive thing.
I very much doubt this will occur. cities have many lifestyle benefits. whats going to happen is a whole class of employment is going to die out sure. but it'll be replaced with more interesting things like entertainment focused markets.
and some people will definitely move. but cities will only be getting better moving forward.
and some people will definitely move. but cities will only be getting better moving forward.
Many resort areas which are livable full-time are experiencing remote workers moving in. Seaside areas and ski towns are having demographic change.
Agreed. I thought cottage industry meant small.. Landlording is by no means a small industry.
As much as I hate commuting to the office, I'm seeing a ton of bigger companies push for this .
This is easily worth 50k to me. I see no point in to riding the train for hours per day, at the same time I understand that without business commuters many bigger cities will just collapse.
This is easily worth 50k to me. I see no point in to riding the train for hours per day, at the same time I understand that without business commuters many bigger cities will just collapse.
I think very few would actually collapse in a seriously negative way. The majority would evolve and adapt.
oh the financial institutions that gave big loans for overpriced buildings will definitely not adapt well
Sure they will. The government will roll in and bail them out.
But it would be a *major* hit for the commuter-support businesses. They're going to scream.
Doesn't mean society should listen, though.
Doesn't mean society should listen, though.
>many bigger cities will just collapse.
Enough about the pros, are there any cons?
Enough about the pros, are there any cons?
I think that ship has sailed for good. Thanks to Covid I now know that remote work is the perk I never knew I wanted. I think a lot of other people are in the same situation. If they want to bring people back to the city they might consider converting those offices to housing. NYC would also do well to tax unoccupied stores and businesses. Even before the pandemic you could spot buildings with multiple unfinished or unoccupied floors at dusk, the landlords just write off the depreciation and let them sit empty while hoping for a Saudi prince or Russian tycoon to drop them a large payday down the road. Covid isn’t going away, they are never going to be able to pack people in as the was the norm in NYC, the NYC economics need to adjust for a world where you need to see daylight between people and have proper airflow.
Jobs are not good in themselves, they need to serve a purpose. The reality is that the coffee you brew at home is just as good as the coffee you buy at ten 20 times the price. These are jobs that should not exist
“ He buys a hot dog on our streets—I hope a vegan hot dog—but he participates in the economy."
Vegan hotdog economics. Love how out of touch this seems. Has to be satire.
Vegan hotdog economics. Love how out of touch this seems. Has to be satire.
If only it was satire. I would highly recommend watching this now classic PSA video he did a decade ago when he was a senator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk2Wc4Y5CxE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk2Wc4Y5CxE
He does seem utterly clueless.
However, is he better than de Blasio? Is he better than Sliwa?
That's all that matters.
However, is he better than de Blasio? Is he better than Sliwa?
That's all that matters.
I'm curious what evidence do you have that he is any better? Case in point the article being discussed here, awarding his brother the top NYPD job, awarding his good friend who retired in 2014 because of a federal corruption scandal a plum job. And those two were just his first two weeks in office.
That's quite a sad statement if you really believe "all that matters" is being just slightly less incompetent than the most incompetent. And even the jury on that is still out as he's only been in office six weeks.
That's quite a sad statement if you really believe "all that matters" is being just slightly less incompetent than the most incompetent. And even the jury on that is still out as he's only been in office six weeks.
I'm curious what evidence do you have that he is any better?
I don't have any such evidence. I don't think the way I phrased my question implied I did.
awarding his brother the top NYPD job
There's a long history of nepotism in politics. Here's a famous case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kennedy#Attorney_Genera... I think there are now laws against that at the federal level.
"all that matters" is being just slightly less incompetent
Many are upset about that reality. But I've been observing politics for many decades and I haven't seen anything better. NY doesn't do recalls (or didn't when I lived there, maybe it changed). California does allow them but that seems to result in an altogether different clown show.
I don't have any such evidence. I don't think the way I phrased my question implied I did.
awarding his brother the top NYPD job
There's a long history of nepotism in politics. Here's a famous case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kennedy#Attorney_Genera... I think there are now laws against that at the federal level.
"all that matters" is being just slightly less incompetent
Many are upset about that reality. But I've been observing politics for many decades and I haven't seen anything better. NY doesn't do recalls (or didn't when I lived there, maybe it changed). California does allow them but that seems to result in an altogether different clown show.
During this period is tech workers have the power and we need to make sure we use to the maximum. I’ve flat out told my bosses I will quit if they try to get me back into the office. They were begging me to stay and we’re still fully remote!
i am literally never going back to office not even hybrid... ill take 100k cut if i had to.. my passion for coding as a job is already on its last legs. this reflects purely on the new mayor shows incompetence social psychology, economics and policy making. if worlds problem could be fixed just by forcing people to in perfect way, world would an utopia. how about not artificially divide city into residential/office/commercial areas?
"this reflects purely on the new mayor shows incompetence social psychology, economics and policy making" Eh, I mean, seems like he is more so trying to get work for all of the people that live there in the quickest way he knows how. Cleaners, hotels, police, hospitality, etc.
Cities are networks effects in the physical world, if they start to unravel then most people will be out of a job. That's totally your right to want to never come back to the office, I'm sure you will have no problem doing just that. On the contrary, it's actually the mayor's JOB to keep those network effects (i.e. the city) going.
So yeah, we could reconfigure New York, and maybe we should, but that will cause a lot of pain to a lot of people who can't do what you are doing and who don't make 100k+ in the comfort of their own home.
Cities are networks effects in the physical world, if they start to unravel then most people will be out of a job. That's totally your right to want to never come back to the office, I'm sure you will have no problem doing just that. On the contrary, it's actually the mayor's JOB to keep those network effects (i.e. the city) going.
So yeah, we could reconfigure New York, and maybe we should, but that will cause a lot of pain to a lot of people who can't do what you are doing and who don't make 100k+ in the comfort of their own home.
It's not the mayor's job to do this. This is such a hamfisted approach to re-homing tax dollars. Instead of thinking innovatively, he's an old man arguing with the waves.
It reeks of ugly desperation and parental overreach. The people have spoken. Now it's time to learn to surf.
It reeks of ugly desperation and parental overreach. The people have spoken. Now it's time to learn to surf.
Man, I'm the exact opposite. At this point I would take a paycut to find a decent company that is exclusively back in the office.
As someone who's worked remote since long before the pandemic, I often wonder if this attitude will eventually become a significant portion of the chunk of people who are saying "remote only forever!" now.
In my case, sometimes - about 50% of the time roughly - I want an office to work out of. I want to separate home and work life for a multitude of reasons, most notably, just to get some damn peace when I'm done with work.
The emotional toll of "walk into your living room, there's work. Wake up, there's work. Done with work? Go chill in your living room an-nope, there's work." can be a pain in the ass after so many years.
So I wonder if I'm somewhat unique in that and maybe it's all in my head, or if eventually, once they've had a substantial remote experience for a few years, more people will be in a place similar to me: they like the benefits of remote, but man that constant work presence thing takes a hell of a toll after a while.
Guess we'll see in a few years if people eventually change their points of view. I don't expect it to be the majority opinion by a long shot, probably not ever, but eventually it may rise to a non-negligible number.
Personally I'd prefer a flexible "come to the office when you want and for very rare special occasions" (critical client meetings once or twice a year, etc.) policy. I think success here is going to break the simplistic "everybody must do x" one-size-fits-all-whether-you-like-it-or-not typical corporate narrowminded oversimplicity, and instead be enabled by flexibility and control on the employee's part, effectively managed by a good manager.
That'll be rare.
In my case, sometimes - about 50% of the time roughly - I want an office to work out of. I want to separate home and work life for a multitude of reasons, most notably, just to get some damn peace when I'm done with work.
The emotional toll of "walk into your living room, there's work. Wake up, there's work. Done with work? Go chill in your living room an-nope, there's work." can be a pain in the ass after so many years.
So I wonder if I'm somewhat unique in that and maybe it's all in my head, or if eventually, once they've had a substantial remote experience for a few years, more people will be in a place similar to me: they like the benefits of remote, but man that constant work presence thing takes a hell of a toll after a while.
Guess we'll see in a few years if people eventually change their points of view. I don't expect it to be the majority opinion by a long shot, probably not ever, but eventually it may rise to a non-negligible number.
Personally I'd prefer a flexible "come to the office when you want and for very rare special occasions" (critical client meetings once or twice a year, etc.) policy. I think success here is going to break the simplistic "everybody must do x" one-size-fits-all-whether-you-like-it-or-not typical corporate narrowminded oversimplicity, and instead be enabled by flexibility and control on the employee's part, effectively managed by a good manager.
That'll be rare.
I have worked remotely for almost 30 years. I know e feeling of net being able to leave work, but the solution for me was simple. At some point, I moved my office into its own room. Now I can leave work at the end of the day and close the door behind me.
It takes some conditioning to break a workaholic mindset. For me, I filled my time with playing music and then farming. Hobbies became a necessary distraction to maintain a work-life balance. But once the habit was formed, I couldn’t imagine going back.
It takes some conditioning to break a workaholic mindset. For me, I filled my time with playing music and then farming. Hobbies became a necessary distraction to maintain a work-life balance. But once the habit was formed, I couldn’t imagine going back.
I tried this myself once upon a time, but I failed the "discipline" part :-) I suspect that's going to be true of most people. And with the cost of housing being out of control, rising exponentially faster than income and inflation, I suspect getting another bedroom (be it via purchasing a larger house or moving to a bigger apartment) is going to be out of reach for most people for quite a while.
Still, I agree with your approach here entirely, this is the way to handle it. Co-working space also could work, but then you have a commute, so you might as well just go into the office at that point! Glad you were able to make it work for you!
Still, I agree with your approach here entirely, this is the way to handle it. Co-working space also could work, but then you have a commute, so you might as well just go into the office at that point! Glad you were able to make it work for you!
I’m firmly in the “sometimes it’s nice to work in an office with other coworkers” camp. Sometimes.
Looking forward to the next couple of months where our company is going to have 2/3 office/remote weeks
Looking forward to the next couple of months where our company is going to have 2/3 office/remote weeks
You'll have a virtually unlimited number of choices as some companies start to force people back in the coming months.
> By avoiding dressing too fancy, wearing expensive jewelry and watches or prominently displaying the bank’s logo, they may go undetected and not catch the eye of a possible assailant. There have been horrendous acts of senseless violence perpetrated in the train stations, as well as the streets of the Big Apple.
This seems like a big part of the problem that remote work has solved.
This seems like a big part of the problem that remote work has solved.
I see that hiring body guard should be part of expense of living in such location.
Another politician who doesn't get it.
His real estate investments require that you commute.
Apparently he gets bitcoin though =/ https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/01/eric-adams-paycheck-...
I think he does. NYC is very dependent on property taxes, and if people stay away, the city budget will be affected.
More people would be willing to commute if the subway wasn't a complete shithole.
Nah. I've been 100% remote since 2015 and while I miss in-person work at times, and it's much easier to learn new things in a tight office, but the benefits from being remote are just too big to say no to.
Way less carbon emissions, far cheaper for me, more work-life balance, no commutes eating up my day and driving me nuts. No crappy work lunches where I snag McD's cuz it's close by; I can whip up something in a slowcooker during my "lunchbreak" and have good food all day. I'm happy to run errands during rush hour since traffic is still reasonably light.
Hell, I even get to pet my dog during the work day for occasional and immediate stress relief; at the office I'd just sulk in a cube somewhere.
I'll concede that the COVID lock down made it hard to be remote since I couldn't hit a gym, bar, or hang with friends, but now that it's looking like we're reopening again those are viable.
But screw going back. If the cities can't handle it, good -- let the free market it do it's thing.
Way less carbon emissions, far cheaper for me, more work-life balance, no commutes eating up my day and driving me nuts. No crappy work lunches where I snag McD's cuz it's close by; I can whip up something in a slowcooker during my "lunchbreak" and have good food all day. I'm happy to run errands during rush hour since traffic is still reasonably light.
Hell, I even get to pet my dog during the work day for occasional and immediate stress relief; at the office I'd just sulk in a cube somewhere.
I'll concede that the COVID lock down made it hard to be remote since I couldn't hit a gym, bar, or hang with friends, but now that it's looking like we're reopening again those are viable.
But screw going back. If the cities can't handle it, good -- let the free market it do it's thing.
With fewer people to police, perhaps it's time the city consider sizing down their gargantuan PD. Eleven billion dollars does seem a little much, no?
That’s not how capitalism works. If there are less people commuting into NYC the retail/restaurant businesses will have to adapt (probably already have), so the Mayors budget deficit from less people paying taxes for working there should also adapt.
archive link - https://archive.is/fythn
will be interesting to see what happens. But from an efficiency perspective I can't see any reason companies would comply. There are almost no benefits but a lot of costs to requiring in person work
will be interesting to see what happens. But from an efficiency perspective I can't see any reason companies would comply. There are almost no benefits but a lot of costs to requiring in person work
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Many companies have extensive office infrastructure built or leased. It could take a decade or two to get out of that setup. Meanwhile the buildings sit empty...
Sunk cost. It's not going to cost less if the facilities aren't occupied.
True, but they are a redundant expense then.
"Those jobs aren't coming back"
Maybe rent and wages will become livable and accessible to the layman in nyc now?
Nah those buildings are owned by folks who need margins to go up -- often cuz they're publicly traded companies.
NYC is such a hostile place to young families and those with mobile disabilities. It might benefit everyone if it was 20% smaller and they used the space savings to make the city more human friendly.
Weird... I get the tourist traps but for the regular Jane seems irrelevant. I guess what you need is a revamp of commercial real estate into housing w/ shops on the first level .
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If that’s what he wants then he should lift his vaccine mandates for in person work.
They somehow managed to twist this in such a way that the burden was shifted on the workers-consumers themselves. Instead of saying that all these businesses that relied on a social arrangement whereby the workers were forced to consume overpriced services and products - thus, an arrangement that was more disadvantageous to the workers than any other party - will now need to find new ways to make money, the suggested solution is instead to continue to force workers to consume there, so those businesses not close down.
One could argue that forcing consumers to support certain geographic areas or businesses in order for these not to close down is as far as possible from the free market that is supposedly at play, considering that the consumers will obviously spend their money elsewhere.