Ask HN: What are some good keyboards?
I want to buy a new keyboard because the one that I use is bad. Do you have any recommendations?
100 comments
If you just want a great keyboard and don't want to learn a new layout or form factor and don't want to build your own I present the best mechanical keyboard.
[1] FILCO Majestouch Ninja - Cherry MX Browns
Make it yours with a nice pack of keycaps.[2]
If you're not sure which Cherry MX switches to get read more about them here [3] and search for comparisons. I hate reds. I love blues. My wife's ears hate my blues. Now I use browns.
I have owned many many keyboards and built a couple too and I honestly believe that FILCO is the best consumer mechanical board or at the very least my favorite :)
[1] https://www.amazon.com/FILCO-Majestouch-Ninja-Cherry-Keyboar...
[2] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=cherry+mx+keycaps
[3] https://www.cherrymx.de/en/blog/cherry-mx-switches-at-a-glan...
EDIT: You notice I picked a TKL (10 key less) unless your an accountant or mathematician num pads are highly overrated and take up valuable desk real estate.
EDIT: Check our https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ for inspiration ... but beware ... it can turn into a bit of an addiction.
Good Luck!
[1] FILCO Majestouch Ninja - Cherry MX Browns
Make it yours with a nice pack of keycaps.[2]
If you're not sure which Cherry MX switches to get read more about them here [3] and search for comparisons. I hate reds. I love blues. My wife's ears hate my blues. Now I use browns.
I have owned many many keyboards and built a couple too and I honestly believe that FILCO is the best consumer mechanical board or at the very least my favorite :)
[1] https://www.amazon.com/FILCO-Majestouch-Ninja-Cherry-Keyboar...
[2] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=cherry+mx+keycaps
[3] https://www.cherrymx.de/en/blog/cherry-mx-switches-at-a-glan...
EDIT: You notice I picked a TKL (10 key less) unless your an accountant or mathematician num pads are highly overrated and take up valuable desk real estate.
EDIT: Check our https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ for inspiration ... but beware ... it can turn into a bit of an addiction.
Good Luck!
> EDIT: You notice I picked a TKL (10 key less) unless your an accountant or mathematician num pads are highly overrated and take up valuable desk real estate.
And if you're right-handed they move the mouse further away, which is terrible for RSI.
The Filco is a fine keyboard indeed. Good recommendation.
And if you're right-handed they move the mouse further away, which is terrible for RSI.
The Filco is a fine keyboard indeed. Good recommendation.
I like the 96% layouts (100 keys) - similar size to a TKL, but still has the option of using the number pad. I much prefer typing lots of numbers with the number pad, and I'm no accountant or mathematician.
Note that for people who are used to and prefer the short travel of laptop keyboards, they should check out mechanical keyboards with choc switches rather than the much longer travel MX switches.
MX Blue with rubber bumpers to prevent the bottom-out sound are a pretty good compromise between blue and brown.
+1 to FILCO, just want to add: Pick one with the letters printed on the sides of keycaps, not on top. This way they last longer. (BTW, my favorite switches are black, then red, I hate browns).
Short answer:
If you wanna play games, consider a mechanical keyboard, else consider a flat laptop-like keyboard.
Long answer:
I used to believe that mechanical keyboards have to be better because most people praise them and they are more expensive, but it really is a matter of preference and use case. I bought myself a corsair mechanical keyboard and I really didn't like it besides for playing specific games. A laptop keyboard always felt the best to me. They are flat, so your wrist is always in a correct position while with mechanical keyboards i'd find myself having to bend my wrist backwards despite having a small pad. They are extremely responsive, you get instant feedback from the keys, and I mean instant because it takes less effort and distance to trigger each key. As a result they also make typing faster in my experience. So unless you're in for gaming or have a good pad, i'd say you really don't need it.
If you wanna play games, consider a mechanical keyboard, else consider a flat laptop-like keyboard.
Long answer:
I used to believe that mechanical keyboards have to be better because most people praise them and they are more expensive, but it really is a matter of preference and use case. I bought myself a corsair mechanical keyboard and I really didn't like it besides for playing specific games. A laptop keyboard always felt the best to me. They are flat, so your wrist is always in a correct position while with mechanical keyboards i'd find myself having to bend my wrist backwards despite having a small pad. They are extremely responsive, you get instant feedback from the keys, and I mean instant because it takes less effort and distance to trigger each key. As a result they also make typing faster in my experience. So unless you're in for gaming or have a good pad, i'd say you really don't need it.
Your experience is like saying "I bought a Prius and decided I don't like electric cars". A Corsair gaming keyboard is far from the best the mechanical keyboard world can offer.
I strongly recommend split hands, ortholinear layout and thumb clusters too, as well as a programmable firmware so you can setup your own layers.
I’ve been using corne (40% ortho split) for software development for over a year now. It is most definitely the way to go. Having common symbols ()<>{} be on a layer on the home row is so fantastic for typing speed.
3 months on Corne and Colemak. Dont attempt if you just started a new job, dont ask me how I know.
The only benefit for me is I started to appreciate keyboard macros (built in/QMK, or AHK), IDE custom snippets, and gaming mouse macros (navigation mainly eg: goto implementation/definition, booarks, etc).
It made me a slightly better dev because I now take advantage of these features
The only benefit for me is I started to appreciate keyboard macros (built in/QMK, or AHK), IDE custom snippets, and gaming mouse macros (navigation mainly eg: goto implementation/definition, booarks, etc).
It made me a slightly better dev because I now take advantage of these features
That makes sense. I recently got a keyboard with configurable layers, but I'm using mostly standard qwerty to start out, adding custom bindings one at a time. I think I'll try out your suggestion, would you mind sharing more details of your configuration?
Same, the corne (and generally 40s with layers) are great for programming.
I had to learn touch typing, but it was well invested time.
I had to learn touch typing, but it was well invested time.
Ortho makes sense if you touch type. I sort of hover above the keys using 3 digits on each hand to do most of the typing (with supplemental pinky usage, but never ring finger). It isn't Mavis Beacon approved, but I can bang out about 70wpms this way.
When I got an Ortho keyboard, I tried to learn to touch type, but it was quite slow. Eventually I learned to hover-type on that too. I love the look and sound, but not much more than that.
The biggest problem with using an ortholinear keyboard is that sometimes I want to just work on my laptop and for a while My typing speed on a regular qwerty keyboard slowed way down and had a lot more typos. Now I can mostly go back and forth.
When I got an Ortho keyboard, I tried to learn to touch type, but it was quite slow. Eventually I learned to hover-type on that too. I love the look and sound, but not much more than that.
The biggest problem with using an ortholinear keyboard is that sometimes I want to just work on my laptop and for a while My typing speed on a regular qwerty keyboard slowed way down and had a lot more typos. Now I can mostly go back and forth.
This is my suggestion too. I had a Kinesis, switched to keyboardio and am really happy with it. There is a learning curve, and you feel quite unproductive at first, but you learn quickly and once comfortable, they are better than anything else I've tried.
edit: meant Kinesis
edit: meant Kinesis
100% this, I have a zsa moonlander and it was one of the best purchases I ever made. The adaptation period was really frustrating, but I can’t see myself ever going back to a traditional keyboard.
Good entry point for people coming from the "traditional" keyboard world -- particularly those who don't expect to invest a lot of time in things like learning radically different layouts, heavy use & customization of layers, etc.
I love the HHKB Pro 2 Type-S (topre) https://youtu.be/CmvB7FOgyxk not for everyone. I like torpe switches. Reminds me of the old apple iie keyboard (alps switch); probably my favorite keyboard ever https://youtu.be/zwgas6McpoQ
I highly recommend Xah Lee's site (recommended on a previous HN keyboard thread). [0]
I personally have the X-Bows, and like it quite a bit as a starter ergo keyboard. [1][2]
I've also backed the Glove80 on Kickstarter (after learning about it on HN!) as a deeper dive into ergo. [3][4]
[0] http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboarding.html
[1] http://xahlee.info/kbd/xbows_keyboard_review.html
[2] https://x-bows.com/collections/keyboards
[3] http://xahlee.info/kbd/glove80_keyboard.html
[4] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/moergo/glove80-the-incr...
I personally have the X-Bows, and like it quite a bit as a starter ergo keyboard. [1][2]
I've also backed the Glove80 on Kickstarter (after learning about it on HN!) as a deeper dive into ergo. [3][4]
[0] http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboarding.html
[1] http://xahlee.info/kbd/xbows_keyboard_review.html
[2] https://x-bows.com/collections/keyboards
[3] http://xahlee.info/kbd/glove80_keyboard.html
[4] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/moergo/glove80-the-incr...
X-Bows is a great keyboard. It's the cheapest one that has multiple keys for thumbs. But it is very wide for my hands. Reaching = and | keys are very difficult. I'm looking for a more compact alternative. [0] is a great resource for comparing sizes of keyboards.
[0] https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/
[0] https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/
I've been using a CODE keyboard [0] for the last five years or so. Been pretty happy overall, the only complaint I could have is that some of the paint is wearing off on well used keys.
It is a traditional layout, no split, nothing like that. But I have personally found that I only get sore wrists and fingers when I let the room temperature get too low, so I keep it warm and my keyboard choice seems to have no effect.
[0] https://codekeyboards.com/
It is a traditional layout, no split, nothing like that. But I have personally found that I only get sore wrists and fingers when I let the room temperature get too low, so I keep it warm and my keyboard choice seems to have no effect.
[0] https://codekeyboards.com/
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/mx-keys-wi...
This is a problem I was struggling with until recently.
Specifically, I prefer low profile keyboards like the Apple magic keyboards. The problem I was having is that I wanted a low profile keyboard and mouse that I could easily switch between my Mac laptop and windows desktop.
I looked for a kvm for months that would address my specific needs for mouse/keyboard and 2 monitor setup (1440p gaming displayport / 4K uhd usb-c).
I finally found the Logitech MX keys and mouse combo. It's low profile and feels good for me. Plus it specifically has built in device switching. For monitor switching I just manually change the inputs as needed.
This is a problem I was struggling with until recently.
Specifically, I prefer low profile keyboards like the Apple magic keyboards. The problem I was having is that I wanted a low profile keyboard and mouse that I could easily switch between my Mac laptop and windows desktop.
I looked for a kvm for months that would address my specific needs for mouse/keyboard and 2 monitor setup (1440p gaming displayport / 4K uhd usb-c).
I finally found the Logitech MX keys and mouse combo. It's low profile and feels good for me. Plus it specifically has built in device switching. For monitor switching I just manually change the inputs as needed.
I've had my Leopold FC660C for I think 5 years now, it was very expensive but completely worth it IMHO. Capacitive sensing is just so much better than electrical contacts, due to the programmed in hysteresis, chattering just isn't a thing with Topre. I put the Hasu controller in it too and made my own custom layout with QMK.
If I was looking at getting a new keyboard I would also consider hall effect and optical key switch design keyboards.
If I was looking at getting a new keyboard I would also consider hall effect and optical key switch design keyboards.
I'm about 11 years into a variable-weighted white-gray Topre Realforce, and I don't think about keyboards anymore. I'd get either a variable-weighted or 45g Topre.
I can recommend the Kinesis Advantage too, but I later sold mine -- weight lifting did an even better job of eliminating ergonomic problems, as did piano practice once before, and I think it's generally a better strategy to not need ergonomic devices.
I can recommend the Kinesis Advantage too, but I later sold mine -- weight lifting did an even better job of eliminating ergonomic problems, as did piano practice once before, and I think it's generally a better strategy to not need ergonomic devices.
Excercising your wrists and arms is absolutely one of the best ways to avoid RSI in my experience. I think the advantages of using ergonomic layouts are perhaps overstated in some cases, I find that if I allow my hands to 'float' a little and move around more freely my fingers find the keys easily, and I don't need to worry about planting my wrists in a fixed position and having them at an uncomfortable angle.
I imagine ergonomic designs probably makes the most sense for people that do large volumes of typing with high WPM. For me I just really like the compact layout of my FC660C, small boards allow me to have a mouse either side, swapping mouse hands is another great way to avoid RSI.
I imagine ergonomic designs probably makes the most sense for people that do large volumes of typing with high WPM. For me I just really like the compact layout of my FC660C, small boards allow me to have a mouse either side, swapping mouse hands is another great way to avoid RSI.
I think I would have liked the FC660C. I once had an HHKB2, but using the Fn modifier for arrows was too much.
I have to say, I found the Kinesis Advantage to be fantastic. It really did work, solving my ergonomic problems, wonderfully and very quickly. The need for it did depend on the volume of typing -- back when I used it, I switched off of it, but then had to switch back after some days with more typing.
I have to say, I found the Kinesis Advantage to be fantastic. It really did work, solving my ergonomic problems, wonderfully and very quickly. The need for it did depend on the volume of typing -- back when I used it, I switched off of it, but then had to switch back after some days with more typing.
Logitech K380. I can type faster on that thing than any mechanical keyboard. It feels like the old gen MacBook Pro keyboards to me, but more crisp. (The gen before they started doing weird Touch Bar stuff.) It has 3 bluetooth channels so I switch between my work laptop, personal laptop, and desktop with it. Works great between macOS and Windows, too. And I’ve had it for a year and haven’t had to change the batteries yet.
Mechanical keyboards are cool but turns out they aren’t for everybody. I spent a lot of money on them and ultimately discovered I don’t really like any of them. They’re clunky to type on for me. I tried Cherry red, blue, brown, and also Topre, and I still just like my dumb $30 keyboard more.
Mechanical keyboards are cool but turns out they aren’t for everybody. I spent a lot of money on them and ultimately discovered I don’t really like any of them. They’re clunky to type on for me. I tried Cherry red, blue, brown, and also Topre, and I still just like my dumb $30 keyboard more.
I switched from mechanical keyboards to a Matias for the same reason, I was always faster on a macbook keyboard.
The Matias comes close.... very close... but not quite.
I never would have guessed that quirky looking circular thing could be worth it, but maybe it's not a bad swing I guess :)
The Matias comes close.... very close... but not quite.
I never would have guessed that quirky looking circular thing could be worth it, but maybe it's not a bad swing I guess :)
Apple Magic Keyboard.
Glue 4 cut-in-half ear plugs to the bottom as feet/shock absorbers.
The minimal key travel is very efficient for fast typing and the added feet absorb shock when you bottom out if you bang hard.
I've been doing this for about 10 years -- works great.
The minimal key travel is very efficient for fast typing and the added feet absorb shock when you bottom out if you bang hard.
I've been doing this for about 10 years -- works great.
I'd recommend:
- Chiclet Keyboard
- Inexpensive
- Wired
- Full QUERTY layout (inc. number pad).
- Maybe a dedicated calculator button.
- No LEDs/special features/special software.
Advantage including:
- Lower compression depth/lower pressure per key press.
- Lower noise.
- Lower cost.
- Increased reliability.
- Plug and play.
Amazon Basics and Dell both make good keyboards in this category but Amazon Basics' keyboard no longer has the dedicated Calculator button. I buy these keyboards on purpose and legitimately don't understand people who WANT a Model-M clone, I typed on those for years, terrible keyboards. Just loud, attract grime, and cause hand fatigue.
PS - Although the trendy tide could be turning with MX LOW PROFILE gaining some interest.
edit: Maybe check out the CHERRY Stream Keyboard for $30 on Amazon (US).
- Chiclet Keyboard
- Inexpensive
- Wired
- Full QUERTY layout (inc. number pad).
- Maybe a dedicated calculator button.
- No LEDs/special features/special software.
Advantage including:
- Lower compression depth/lower pressure per key press.
- Lower noise.
- Lower cost.
- Increased reliability.
- Plug and play.
Amazon Basics and Dell both make good keyboards in this category but Amazon Basics' keyboard no longer has the dedicated Calculator button. I buy these keyboards on purpose and legitimately don't understand people who WANT a Model-M clone, I typed on those for years, terrible keyboards. Just loud, attract grime, and cause hand fatigue.
PS - Although the trendy tide could be turning with MX LOW PROFILE gaining some interest.
edit: Maybe check out the CHERRY Stream Keyboard for $30 on Amazon (US).
I've really enjoyed using my Ultimate Hacking Keyboard. It's helped me get over a lot of wrist pain, and I love how customizable it is (every key can be customized to send any scancode, macro, mouse, etc.). I also have the touchpad and extra key modules.
Not cheap, but I use it for ~8 hours every workday.
https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/
Not cheap, but I use it for ~8 hours every workday.
https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/
I am quite curious about using this keyboard without a mouse (in the demo video there seems to be a key called mouse, just above the left shift) - maybe someone who uses it as a mouse can chime in? Alternatively would be interested as well about the trackpoint module - does somebody use it? How precise is it to use it with a thumb, compared with the usage of an original ThinkPad trackpoint or is the TEX Shinobi [1].
The TEX Shinobi TrackPoint is for me much easier and better to use than on modern ThinkPad keyboard, was quite a surprise.
[1] https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi?variant=16969883648090
The TEX Shinobi TrackPoint is for me much easier and better to use than on modern ThinkPad keyboard, was quite a surprise.
[1] https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi?variant=16969883648090
The mouse layer maps keys to mouse movements, buttons and scrolling: hold down the mouse key (or lock it on if you have that mapped) and you can use the arrow keys (JIKL by default) for mouse movements, and other keys for buttons. From a USB HID perspective it behaves identically to a regular mouse.
I haven't used the trackpoint module, but they've put a ton of thought into every other module, so I expect it would be quite good.
I'm a bit of a pointing device hoarder (I have at least four different trackballs and a couple of ergonomic mice), so I always have a few close at hand. I find myself using a regular trackball/mouse (alternating between my favorites to reduce RSI) for my primary pointing device, but the mouse layer is very handy for when I just need to move the mouse a bit and don't want to move my hands from the keyboard.
I haven't used the trackpoint module, but they've put a ton of thought into every other module, so I expect it would be quite good.
I'm a bit of a pointing device hoarder (I have at least four different trackballs and a couple of ergonomic mice), so I always have a few close at hand. I find myself using a regular trackball/mouse (alternating between my favorites to reduce RSI) for my primary pointing device, but the mouse layer is very handy for when I just need to move the mouse a bit and don't want to move my hands from the keyboard.
I cannot agree more.
I have purchased the wrist rest, the trackball and the extra key module, after ~5 months of daily usage (9-10 hrs per day) of the "basic" UHK v2.
It's a fantastic keyboard and it is totally worth the expense.
I have purchased the wrist rest, the trackball and the extra key module, after ~5 months of daily usage (9-10 hrs per day) of the "basic" UHK v2.
It's a fantastic keyboard and it is totally worth the expense.
For me, the angle matters, but also the softness of the touch. For this reason I have loved the Kinesis Freestyle 2. I really tried hard for some weeks, and much customization, to like the Kinesis Advantage, which is programmable, but the keys were just too stiff for my hands' comfort.
Maybe someday I'll have to try more of the other kinds, that people discuss. Time/$/priorities...
Edit: I've tried multiple MS split keyboards but they were also a bit stiff. The nearest other I've liked was a Belkin that I found somehow at work, but I forget which model.
(Ps: if someone seriously wants to try my Advantage enough to make it super-easy for me to mail it to them, it's just sitting here in the box...)
Maybe someday I'll have to try more of the other kinds, that people discuss. Time/$/priorities...
Edit: I've tried multiple MS split keyboards but they were also a bit stiff. The nearest other I've liked was a Belkin that I found somehow at work, but I forget which model.
(Ps: if someone seriously wants to try my Advantage enough to make it super-easy for me to mail it to them, it's just sitting here in the box...)
If you are willing to part with the keyboard I would buy it from you. My Microsoft 4000 keyboard finally stopped working and I’m looking for replacement.
I hope I'm not too late in replying. If you will send me a shipping label, paid, especially if set up for a porch pick-up, you can have it. In my profile -> my site -> my email address, we can discuss details if you like.
I should probably reset the key mappings to factory default before sending it to you, unless you want to try my layout for some reason (I can send you rough notes). I didn't like theirs (made my thumbs push sideways too much). But the user manual says how to reset it.
I hope the inner box is good enough for shipping -- cardboard, not especially thin, but originally it had a bigger shipping box around it. I'm thinking, I add tape, shipping label, put outside on the right day. We can also drop it at the post office or FedEx office, but you might have to wait longer that way, until we happen to be near there (edit: health slows me down currently).
If you still prefer to pay, you can do it by reviewing my web site and providing suggestions (but not required). I don't plan to add pictures or visual design, but I do plan to consider a sans serif font later, and I hope it can be useful for some people, for some things, so suggestions welcome. Especially when considering the first link "how to read content at this site...". Another payment is if the keyboard is useful to you, after some months, I'd be glad to hear it. Or persuade DanG (dang) here to un-shadow-ban any comments that include a direct link to my site. I'll try not to post so many as when he did (oops -- I thought at the time they could be useful, but probably overdone); I think he does a good job really for the site.
I should probably reset the key mappings to factory default before sending it to you, unless you want to try my layout for some reason (I can send you rough notes). I didn't like theirs (made my thumbs push sideways too much). But the user manual says how to reset it.
I hope the inner box is good enough for shipping -- cardboard, not especially thin, but originally it had a bigger shipping box around it. I'm thinking, I add tape, shipping label, put outside on the right day. We can also drop it at the post office or FedEx office, but you might have to wait longer that way, until we happen to be near there (edit: health slows me down currently).
If you still prefer to pay, you can do it by reviewing my web site and providing suggestions (but not required). I don't plan to add pictures or visual design, but I do plan to consider a sans serif font later, and I hope it can be useful for some people, for some things, so suggestions welcome. Especially when considering the first link "how to read content at this site...". Another payment is if the keyboard is useful to you, after some months, I'd be glad to hear it. Or persuade DanG (dang) here to un-shadow-ban any comments that include a direct link to my site. I'll try not to post so many as when he did (oops -- I thought at the time they could be useful, but probably overdone); I think he does a good job really for the site.
Another fan of the freestyle here (although I have the pro)
If you’re in the market for an ergo keyboard, I’ve used and liked the Kinesis Freestyle for years now. It’s a fully split keyboard with a staggered layout - I use it in a tented setup, and the ergonomics have been good while it’s similar enough to regular keyboards to not make switching back and forth too difficult.
I’ve tried the mechanical (red switch) version, but actually prefer their membrane version because it’s quieter and I like the tactile feedback better (I haven’t tried the brown/blue switch models though).
I’ve tried the mechanical (red switch) version, but actually prefer their membrane version because it’s quieter and I like the tactile feedback better (I haven’t tried the brown/blue switch models though).
This is what I have used for a couple years now. I switched after experiencing wrist pain which has ceased completely after going for the split.
I am using a Matias Tactile Pro, which is similar to that old mechanical IBM keyboard with an layout with a lot of symbols (which might be nice if you do math and data science). It is heavy, big, and super loud but I really like the sound, and it feels just good. I have good experiences with it, using it since about eight years. Has also two USB ports which is useful for charging stuff and gadgets.
I have to warn about the Matias Quiet versions though - they are not durable and keys are failing quickly. Unbelievable the difference in quality.
Many people make a fuss about ergonomic keyboard layouts. I just do not understand why. My recommendation is this:
1. Chose a layout which is useful for your language(s) and programming - best layouts for this are often from multi-lingual countries like UK International (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#United_Kingdom_(Extende...), or Canadian, or such. (Some national layouts like German are horrible because keys like '{' or '}' cannot be reached in an ergonomic way. It might therefore be better to put rarely-used regional characters on dead-keys, which is exactly what UK International, for example, does.)
2. Learn to touch-type on that one layout, and stick to it.
Anything else is very unlikely to ever give any return in time you invest. Especially when you are coding - the key that is used most often for code is empirically the "Delete" key, and that's for a reason.
I have to warn about the Matias Quiet versions though - they are not durable and keys are failing quickly. Unbelievable the difference in quality.
Many people make a fuss about ergonomic keyboard layouts. I just do not understand why. My recommendation is this:
1. Chose a layout which is useful for your language(s) and programming - best layouts for this are often from multi-lingual countries like UK International (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#United_Kingdom_(Extende...), or Canadian, or such. (Some national layouts like German are horrible because keys like '{' or '}' cannot be reached in an ergonomic way. It might therefore be better to put rarely-used regional characters on dead-keys, which is exactly what UK International, for example, does.)
2. Learn to touch-type on that one layout, and stick to it.
Anything else is very unlikely to ever give any return in time you invest. Especially when you are coding - the key that is used most often for code is empirically the "Delete" key, and that's for a reason.
I've spent a lot of time finding the perfect keyboard. I started with a Das Keyboard Model S with CherryMx Blue [1], then got the Code Keyboard with CherryMx Brown [2]. I stuck with this keyboard for years. Then I found Ten-Keyless keyboards, and this is where I got very picky. I wanted:
- RGB Backlight
- Dedicated Media Keys(or Knob)
- TKL
After some time I found Drevo BladeMaster with CherryMx Silent Red, this was it, small, RGB backlight, media Knob. The software is kinda janky, but I was really happy with this... Then I realized I had another requirement: I prefer 75% keyboard, this is a TKL, but smaller, with the "delete, page up, page down.." keys closer to the rest of the keyboard, and still have all the Function keys. I had to sacrifice the dedicated media keys for the size, but I'm extremely happy with my Keychron K2 with Gateron Red
[1] https://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/
[2] https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/code-v3-104-key-mechanical-key...
[3] https://www.drevo.net/product/keyboard/blademaster-pro
[4] https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k2-wireless-mecha...
After some time I found Drevo BladeMaster with CherryMx Silent Red, this was it, small, RGB backlight, media Knob. The software is kinda janky, but I was really happy with this... Then I realized I had another requirement: I prefer 75% keyboard, this is a TKL, but smaller, with the "delete, page up, page down.." keys closer to the rest of the keyboard, and still have all the Function keys. I had to sacrifice the dedicated media keys for the size, but I'm extremely happy with my Keychron K2 with Gateron Red
[1] https://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/
[2] https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/code-v3-104-key-mechanical-key...
[3] https://www.drevo.net/product/keyboard/blademaster-pro
[4] https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k2-wireless-mecha...
Warning: you're about to jump down a massive rabbit hole!
If you want a standard keyboard, DAS and WASD offer some good options.
If Ergonomics are important and you don't mind the learning curve, go for split. The Ergodox EZ is a great option here. I have 2, one for my work desk and one for home, been using them for a few years now and haven't looked back.
Whatever you do, go with a mechanical keyboard. Purely subjective, but you really can't beat the tactility of it.
If you want a standard keyboard, DAS and WASD offer some good options.
If Ergonomics are important and you don't mind the learning curve, go for split. The Ergodox EZ is a great option here. I have 2, one for my work desk and one for home, been using them for a few years now and haven't looked back.
Whatever you do, go with a mechanical keyboard. Purely subjective, but you really can't beat the tactility of it.
If you need a keyboard NOW, take a severe look at the Kinesis Advantage 2. It has a learning curve, but it's a small price to pay to have a very comfortable typing experience AND incredible customizability it offers (e.g., macros & hardware-defined key re-mapping). However, don't bother downloading the software as it's not great.
BUT, if you can wait a few months... they have a modern version slated to release this summer.
https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/
IMO it fixes most if not all issues I have with it.
BUT, if you can wait a few months... they have a modern version slated to release this summer.
https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/
IMO it fixes most if not all issues I have with it.
- Wireless via Bluetooth
- Ditching USB-A for USB-C
- Split keyboard while retaining its finger ergonomics
- Update styling, which will (hopefully) be much easier to
transport and less of an eye-sore
- Ability to change 'tenting' which should increase
ergonomicsI've worn out multiple of them over many many years of using the Kinesis Advantage (and then Advantage 2) (before I went down the splergo rabbit hole).
One thing to note is that people with large hands and/or long finger lengths can find the fixed size hand wells too cramped.
Another thing to note is that they are loud.
One thing to note is that people with large hands and/or long finger lengths can find the fixed size hand wells too cramped.
Another thing to note is that they are loud.
The version with MX Silent switches is considerably quieter than the standard MX Red version. I'm hoping the Kinesis 360 coming out this year will be even quieter.
What sort of keyboard are you looking for, for what use? It might help by sharing your favorite keyboard, and what you like about it.
Some of the features to consider (by no means exhaustive):
1. Width: 60%, TKL, or full-size
2. Height: Normal or low-profile
3. Key layout: Ergonomic, ortho, staggered
4. OS-friendly layout: Mac or Windows
5. Switches: clicky, tactile, linear
6. Misc: RGB, programmable keys, wireless
Personally I like 60% low-profile clicky keyboards. I use a Keychron K7 at home and MX Keys Mini at work.
Some of the features to consider (by no means exhaustive):
1. Width: 60%, TKL, or full-size
2. Height: Normal or low-profile
3. Key layout: Ergonomic, ortho, staggered
4. OS-friendly layout: Mac or Windows
5. Switches: clicky, tactile, linear
6. Misc: RGB, programmable keys, wireless
Personally I like 60% low-profile clicky keyboards. I use a Keychron K7 at home and MX Keys Mini at work.
I very much like my Lenovo thinkpad laptop keyboard. I like the compact layout, proportion and sturdiness of it. Do you think I’d be happy with the Keychron?
That is indeed very compact. I like compact keyboards too. You didn't mention gaming so I'm going to assume you don't care too much about that.
If you live near a Best Buy, pay one a visit, they usually have keyboards on display which you can type on. I suggest trying at least the following:
1. Logitech MX Keys Mini. This provides a very nice laptop-like typing experience.
2. Logitech G815/915. This is a "gaming" keyboard with low profile mechanical clicky ("blue") switches.
Based on that, you can decide if you care about mechanical switches or not. If you really like the low-profile clicky feeling, the Logitech are great, but wide compared to your Thinkpad, and also expensive (>$200). Keychron has narrower versions with lots of customizability. There's some other vendors too, here's a list [1].
If you prefer the laptop-like typing experience, the MX Keys and the new Mini variant are very popular, for a good reason.
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hotiws...
If you live near a Best Buy, pay one a visit, they usually have keyboards on display which you can type on. I suggest trying at least the following:
1. Logitech MX Keys Mini. This provides a very nice laptop-like typing experience.
2. Logitech G815/915. This is a "gaming" keyboard with low profile mechanical clicky ("blue") switches.
Based on that, you can decide if you care about mechanical switches or not. If you really like the low-profile clicky feeling, the Logitech are great, but wide compared to your Thinkpad, and also expensive (>$200). Keychron has narrower versions with lots of customizability. There's some other vendors too, here's a list [1].
If you prefer the laptop-like typing experience, the MX Keys and the new Mini variant are very popular, for a good reason.
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hotiws...
You’re in luck! There are a number of USB Lenovo thinkpad keyboards with track points, and sometimes trackpads in full and ten key-less formats. (I believe it’s also fairly straightforward to convert a ‘replacement’ x220/x230 keyboard to USB).
Here’s a couple of model numbers to get started:
FRU 0B47221
FRU 40K9427
This is a very extreme and stupid suggestion, but... https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi?variant=16969883648090
I also have a Lenovo laptop, it’s an Ideapad. And am very happy with how it is for coding - which is what I use it for.
I have a few Vortex Pok3rs (60% with brown, red, and clear cherry switches) and love them.
It’s not as important now, but one thing I really like about them is how portable they are. If I have to travel to work at a client site or visit an office, a Pok3r is trivial to bring along.
Once you’re really used to a semi-exotic keyboard, it’s really frustrating when they’re not available.
It’s not as important now, but one thing I really like about them is how portable they are. If I have to travel to work at a client site or visit an office, a Pok3r is trivial to bring along.
Once you’re really used to a semi-exotic keyboard, it’s really frustrating when they’re not available.
I really like the Vortex Race 3 as a gaming keyboard with some Kailh Speed Silver linear switches. It has almost no bezels and the layout has everything but a numpad, I love boards that don't take up more desk space than is absolutely needed.
I second the Vortex keyboards, I have a couple!
I'm firmly in the Logitech camp - I have a bunch of dongles that pair to multiple mice and keyboards across a number of devices. My favourite Logitech keyboard is the K580 (https://www.logitech.com/en-nz/products/keyboards/k580-multi...) which is small and thin, can connect to two devices, and supports both Bluetooth and dongle connections. I use this with the MX Master 3 mouse, which also supports both Bluetooth and dongles. I do have a couple of nice mechanical keyboards too, but I find that most mechanical keyboards sit way too high off the desk so require an additional wrist rest to be comfy.
All of these fancy mech keyboards miss one key problem - the mouse still needs to be clicked and therein lies the source of numerous strains and injuries. I’ve tried several mech keyboards and my last one was a KeyChron 3, but recently I got tired of issues with my ultra wide monitor and returned to working on my 16”
MacBook Pro and realized what a relief it is not have to deal with a mouse, because the built in trackpad feels so great, and I find myself looking not as much for keyboard shortcuts.
Anyway I wonder if there’s a set up that combines the benefits of a mech keyboard with a trackpad conveniently placed right below and feel as “natural” as when using a MacBook Pro (or similar laptop with built in trackpad).
Anyway I wonder if there’s a set up that combines the benefits of a mech keyboard with a trackpad conveniently placed right below and feel as “natural” as when using a MacBook Pro (or similar laptop with built in trackpad).
I use Corne(-ish Zen) that is a split-ergo on top of my MBP keyboard. It's low profile (uses choc switches).
I have an additional touch pad that I use with the same keyboard on my desk.
I have an additional touch pad that I use with the same keyboard on my desk.
Corvair K63: I have three - one in the office, one at home and one at my other half's house. I grew up with IBM Model M as the ideal keyboard, and the K63 is the closest I've found. Cherry MX switches, and super robust, with that clickety clackety feel.
Just yesterday I bought the Maestro FL listed here: https://archisite.co.jp/products/archiss/maestro/
I recommend you go to a shop that has a bunch of keyboards and try them all out. Then you should be able to figure out what kind of switches you like and which ones you don't like. I bought my keyboard with "Cherry Red" switches. The switches are "linear" and don't make a clicky sound, i.e. they are perfect :) Feels like some 80s/90s keyboards. The final version of the Apple II is very close I think.
I recommend you go to a shop that has a bunch of keyboards and try them all out. Then you should be able to figure out what kind of switches you like and which ones you don't like. I bought my keyboard with "Cherry Red" switches. The switches are "linear" and don't make a clicky sound, i.e. they are perfect :) Feels like some 80s/90s keyboards. The final version of the Apple II is very close I think.
I use Ergodox Infinity keyboard and I'd suggest: separate left and right hand boards, columnar or ortholinear layout, thumb clusters, mechanical keys and profiled keycaps.
Maybe a good question to start with is "how much are you planning to spend"?
Maybe a good question to start with is "how much are you planning to spend"?
I use Mistel Barocco 770 with brown Cherry MX. It is a split keyboard
My only experience before this is a pre-owned Cherry MX Blue. I am quite comfortable with the feedback I am getting from Mistel.
Regarding comfort, I enjoy it more than my Thinkpad t470s keyboard.
I also find that I no longer have the occasional mild pain I have in my wrists and forearms.
There is also a bluetooth version though I have not used that model.
https://www.amazon.com/Mistel-Mechanical-Keyboard-Ergonomic-...
My only experience before this is a pre-owned Cherry MX Blue. I am quite comfortable with the feedback I am getting from Mistel.
Regarding comfort, I enjoy it more than my Thinkpad t470s keyboard.
I also find that I no longer have the occasional mild pain I have in my wrists and forearms.
There is also a bluetooth version though I have not used that model.
https://www.amazon.com/Mistel-Mechanical-Keyboard-Ergonomic-...
Been using my ErgodoxEZ for the last 6 years. Fantastic keyboard, great ergonomics, rock solid build quality. Pricy but very worth imo.
If I were buying today, I'd buy a Moonlander, the newer version of the Ergodox.
If I were buying today, I'd buy a Moonlander, the newer version of the Ergodox.
Unicomp Model M. When IBM discontinued production of buckling spring keyboards the employees at the plant in Kentucky bought the factory, the tooling, and the rights to the (now expired) patents and kept on making the Model M the same as in 1985. It's a bit like how they kept making the original air cooled VW Beetle in Mexico years after everyone else moved on.
They're nearly not as well known as they should be because they don't do any marketing at all. And at $104 they're not expensive by premium keyboard standards.
They're nearly not as well known as they should be because they don't do any marketing at all. And at $104 they're not expensive by premium keyboard standards.
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For people already heading towards (or already down :-) ) the split ergo road, the IC is open for round 3 of the Corne-ish Zen keyboard (3x6+3 or 3x5+3, wireless, zmk firmware, chocs): https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdCpc0rmRWP4NqA0ee0...
Keychron seems to be the current best value, just choose a model based on whether you like low profile laptop-style keys or taller desktop keyboard keys.
Keychron send non-standard scan codes, either Windows or Apple. I couldn’t successfully get it to work with Linux. IMHO look elsewhere if you’re planning to use keychron keyboards with Linux.
Also the brown keys of the K3 had production issues and in my case more than 10 of them broke, more than the number of spare keys delivered. Reportedly efforts to have Keychron ship replacement keys under warranty have failed.
Also the brown keys of the K3 had production issues and in my case more than 10 of them broke, more than the number of spare keys delivered. Reportedly efforts to have Keychron ship replacement keys under warranty have failed.
I use my Keychain K8 with all 3 of those OSes, but especially Linux (primary daily OS) and I’ve had zero issues.
You might get some suggestions for the Kinesis Advantage 2. It's a great keyboard, but keep in mind it's very different from other keyboards and could take a couple weeks to get used to before you're back up to your full productivity. I think the best approach for the Advantage is to just stick with it and fight the urge to even temporarily switch back to a regular keyboard.
As an owner of an Advantage 2, I wholeheartedly agree. I was worried that I'd lose my ability to type on a normal keyboard after I became accustomed to the ortholinear layout of the Kinesis (as some posts online suggested), but I'm typing this message on my MacBook Pro's keyboard.
That said, there's nothing more comfortable and pleasant to type on for the whole day than my Kinesis keyboard. Well worth the $350 price tag and the learning curve.
That said, there's nothing more comfortable and pleasant to type on for the whole day than my Kinesis keyboard. Well worth the $350 price tag and the learning curve.
If you can return to full productivity two weeks after switching to an Advantage 2 then you are way more skilled than I am :) I'd say I hit about oh 80% proficiency after a couple weeks. It took me many months for the keyboard to be fully second nature for me.
I recommend a TKL from Aliexpress. Gateron Yellows are fine switches.
(For example - recently I tested a Keydous NJ80 - didn't get used to the layout - but loved the quality. Most mech keyboards are great unless you try the really high end stuff first... I'd say you get what you pay for and around 80-100 USD you can get a good enough keyboard)
(For example - recently I tested a Keydous NJ80 - didn't get used to the layout - but loved the quality. Most mech keyboards are great unless you try the really high end stuff first... I'd say you get what you pay for and around 80-100 USD you can get a good enough keyboard)
IF you're not gaming, I really like the Logitech MX keys. Its super low profile, you can attach 3 devices to it (Computer, tablet, phone for me). And its wireless. Some people hate the low profile keys, so try one out if you can. Pair it with your favorite wireless mouse-. Also, I use it on Linux, important for me.
I am using Chonchow for $16 from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BFD9NQH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...
It is a tenkeyless backlit keyboard.
It is a tenkeyless backlit keyboard.
I have this one with my MacBook pro and it works really good https://www.amazon.com/Satechi-Aluminum-Bluetooth-Keyboard-3...
Toore is highly overrated, build quality is not there with most common implementations (looking st you HHKB)
Get a Keychron hot swappable, buy some Boba U4/U4T (U4 is silent, U4T is thocky) and install them. and for under $120 and 0 soldering you have a world class typing experience
Get a Keychron hot swappable, buy some Boba U4/U4T (U4 is silent, U4T is thocky) and install them. and for under $120 and 0 soldering you have a world class typing experience
I have a couple of HHKB's (hybrid type s) and I find the build quality to be excellent.
Granted, they feel lighter than i'd expected for a ~$300 keyboard, but they've been rock solid for me for the past few years.
Maybe you got one made on a Friday afternoon?
Granted, they feel lighter than i'd expected for a ~$300 keyboard, but they've been rock solid for me for the past few years.
Maybe you got one made on a Friday afternoon?
Boba U4's are fantastic MX style switches. They've beaten out all of the others that I've tried on my hot-swappable Corne.
Kinesics Freestyle if you need configurability, Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic if you don’t
Like smoyer said, I strongly suggest split hands. Way more ergonomical. I have two Mistel MD770's, one or work and one for home. I really like the keyboards but I think as long you get something that splits you'll be fine.
I have NEVER been more excited to spend 22 hours a day coding than on this keyboard: Code V3 87-Key Illuminated Mechanical Keyboard - White LED Backlighting, Black Case (Cherry MX Green)
Good luck in your hunting (and in my case pecking)
Good luck in your hunting (and in my case pecking)
There's a lot of expensive suggestions, but one great work keyboard is the Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000, it's becoming hard to find at is original price, but you can find a good used one for 20 bucks
I use the Microsoft sculpt [0]
It is a membrane keyboard, not mechanical, but it works well for me. The numpad is separate from the main keyboard, so that works well too.
It is wireless - which is a good thing and a bad thing. Good because it is convenient, bad because unlike the logitech M series, if you lose the usb radio, I don’t think you can order a replacement, so the keyboard becomes useless.
[0] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/microsoft-sculpt-ergonomic...
It is a membrane keyboard, not mechanical, but it works well for me. The numpad is separate from the main keyboard, so that works well too.
It is wireless - which is a good thing and a bad thing. Good because it is convenient, bad because unlike the logitech M series, if you lose the usb radio, I don’t think you can order a replacement, so the keyboard becomes useless.
[0] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/microsoft-sculpt-ergonomic...
I’m another supporter of split keyboards. I used to get terrible shoulder pain before switching. I’m using the kinesis gaming keyboard, which has been great aside from some minor firmware wonkiness.
Has anyone tried to extract the Touch ID module from a magic keyboard so that it can be used with another keyboard? I can’t imagine not having Touch ID when laptop closed.
I've been using Logitech K760 for a long time. Haven't felt the need to update a new one yet. Unfortunately, the keyboard is discontinued.
The Niz electro-capacitive keyboard is great.
I am a fan of the cloudnine mechanical split ergo. It is as close as you can get to the Microsoft ergo 4000
I am using logi K580.
It can connect 2 devices and support both Bluetooth and Unifying.
Most important it has numpad with a compact size.
It can connect 2 devices and support both Bluetooth and Unifying.
Most important it has numpad with a compact size.
Logitech MX for mac it is awesome, it’s like the mx mouse. Wireless for weeks without charging.
Huge fan of my Kinesis Freestyle Mechanical. You can split it and customize it to no tomorrow.
Huge fan of the Keychron K2.
Also like the K3, but not nearly as much.
I have the medium-clicky keys on the K2.
Also like the K3, but not nearly as much.
I have the medium-clicky keys on the K2.
[deleted]
I have a mechanical Keychron C1 wired, no backlight. $50
> the one that I use is bad
What’s bad about it?
What’s bad about it?
It really depends on what you want to use it for. I have multiple different keyboards for different tasks.
Mechanical keyboards is a huge rabbit hole (reddit.com/r/mechanicalKeyboards).
I split my keyboards up in three categories: writing, programming, gaming.
For gaming i like to have a smaller keyboard with easy reach for all the essential keys. Here i often use a split keyboard or a 60% keyboard.
For programming i dont like too small keyboards (less than 60% is frustrating) and i don't enjoy programming using split keyboards.
For writing i often use 40% or split keyboards.
Currently at my home office i use an Alice-style keyboard from Switch Couture [1]. Here i have silent linear switches (Rosélios [2]). I like the alice-style for my general work, as i both write a lot of emails and do a bit of programming. From time to time i switch to one of my split keyboards, if i have a lot of writing to do. I currently don't have a favorite split board, but i use both Kyria [3] and Lily58 [4]. The stagger is a bit different and i'm not sure which i like more. I have an unbuild Corne [5] that i'm gonna try soon.
I don't often go to the office, but when i do, i take a small 40% board with me. It's a simple AMJ40 [6] that doesn't take up much space. At the office, most days go with in-person meetings anyway, so not much typing is done.
When i'm off work, i usually switch to either a Space65 or Think6.5 V2. Both are 65% from Graystudio [7]. The Space65 uses Holy Panda switches, which are louder tactile switches on an aluminium plate, whereas the Think6.5 V2 uses Gateron Milky Yellows on a FR4 plate, which are much more quiet. If i decide to do some gaming, i usually pull out one half of my Kyria and switch to one of my gaming layers. I have layers for WoW, Diablo, LoL, HotS etc.
I have other boards too, but they rarely see use, as these 6 boards seems to cover my needs.
As i said to start with, this is a rabbit hole. I've spend $3000 on keyboards in 2020, as i needed a covid hobby. I stopped buying new boards and accessories in the start of 2021, as the spending and FOMO got out of hand. Had to go cold turkey.
[1] https://switchcouture.com/products/switch-couture-acrylic-al...
[2] https://zealpc.net/products/sakurio-roselio
[3] https://splitkb.com/
[4] https://keyhive.xyz/shop/lily58
[5] https://keyhive.xyz/shop/corne-v3
[6] https://flashquark.com/product/amj40-40-mechanical-keyboard-...
[7] https://graystudio.club/
Mechanical keyboards is a huge rabbit hole (reddit.com/r/mechanicalKeyboards).
I split my keyboards up in three categories: writing, programming, gaming.
For gaming i like to have a smaller keyboard with easy reach for all the essential keys. Here i often use a split keyboard or a 60% keyboard.
For programming i dont like too small keyboards (less than 60% is frustrating) and i don't enjoy programming using split keyboards.
For writing i often use 40% or split keyboards.
Currently at my home office i use an Alice-style keyboard from Switch Couture [1]. Here i have silent linear switches (Rosélios [2]). I like the alice-style for my general work, as i both write a lot of emails and do a bit of programming. From time to time i switch to one of my split keyboards, if i have a lot of writing to do. I currently don't have a favorite split board, but i use both Kyria [3] and Lily58 [4]. The stagger is a bit different and i'm not sure which i like more. I have an unbuild Corne [5] that i'm gonna try soon.
I don't often go to the office, but when i do, i take a small 40% board with me. It's a simple AMJ40 [6] that doesn't take up much space. At the office, most days go with in-person meetings anyway, so not much typing is done.
When i'm off work, i usually switch to either a Space65 or Think6.5 V2. Both are 65% from Graystudio [7]. The Space65 uses Holy Panda switches, which are louder tactile switches on an aluminium plate, whereas the Think6.5 V2 uses Gateron Milky Yellows on a FR4 plate, which are much more quiet. If i decide to do some gaming, i usually pull out one half of my Kyria and switch to one of my gaming layers. I have layers for WoW, Diablo, LoL, HotS etc.
I have other boards too, but they rarely see use, as these 6 boards seems to cover my needs.
As i said to start with, this is a rabbit hole. I've spend $3000 on keyboards in 2020, as i needed a covid hobby. I stopped buying new boards and accessories in the start of 2021, as the spending and FOMO got out of hand. Had to go cold turkey.
[1] https://switchcouture.com/products/switch-couture-acrylic-al...
[2] https://zealpc.net/products/sakurio-roselio
[3] https://splitkb.com/
[4] https://keyhive.xyz/shop/lily58
[5] https://keyhive.xyz/shop/corne-v3
[6] https://flashquark.com/product/amj40-40-mechanical-keyboard-...
[7] https://graystudio.club/