Ask HN: Which country is going in the right direction recently?
Are there any countries that HNers think have been making all the right moves as of late and growing?
11 comments
I find this to be a fascinating question that can be answered in about 1,000 different ways depending on what you subjectively value.
I just think it's really hard to objectively answer this because the biggest power-plays when it comes to national health and power on the global stage may involve things like oil pipelines and energy politics that most people understand very little about and other extremely complicated things like demographics that have a big impact on how the culture evolves. The long-term and second-order effects of so many geopolitical moves can't really be obvious to most people until far later, and what's often popular and celebrated on the Internet can often be a short-term oriented win that doesn't create a lasting system or long-term prosperity.
Ironically, I think it's sometimes the case that those countries that seem to be doing the worst in the short-term might be the closest to achieving some of the biggest conceivable long-term wins.
I just think it's really hard to objectively answer this because the biggest power-plays when it comes to national health and power on the global stage may involve things like oil pipelines and energy politics that most people understand very little about and other extremely complicated things like demographics that have a big impact on how the culture evolves. The long-term and second-order effects of so many geopolitical moves can't really be obvious to most people until far later, and what's often popular and celebrated on the Internet can often be a short-term oriented win that doesn't create a lasting system or long-term prosperity.
Ironically, I think it's sometimes the case that those countries that seem to be doing the worst in the short-term might be the closest to achieving some of the biggest conceivable long-term wins.
There are places which on paper look entirely dysfunctional. Institutions are highly corrupt and development metrics will never happen. The silver lining isn't national level institutions making the right move. It is the defacto live and let live atmosphere created when the state cannot get involved in the minutiae of your daily life.
I would tell you, but I don't want to give the US Government any ideas.
My country is very clearly not. Myriad of human rights are right now being violated. Protesting the government is basically illegal. Personally as an 'elite' or 'laptop class' I'm not the one targeted generally speaking but eventually they come for you. So I have been looking at where I would go.
Caribbean islands certainly have an appeal, but those aside. Same with any countries which im not welcome like the middle east.
Low tax rates and low government debt in lithuania is appealing but 15% inflation? Ouch. Also how about your neighbours building nuclear bombs? Basically the same problem for estonia and such. Lots to like with several of these countries but their neighbour(s) are a bit nutbar.
Czech republic is looking interesting. Good unemployment, good gdp, low government debt, good inflation, good taxes. Probably a disaster population decline issue incoming. Prusa3d is there. Language is probably a problem. Sudetenland a problem still? Probably far enough away from Russia. Certainly curious.
Switzerland, italy, and germany are probably much of the same as well with good situation. That balanced budget amendment is such a huge value, but you have to sit on a cushion during tax season. Otherwise they seem like good destinations. The problem though, language. I suck with language.
Australia has a ton going right. I love so much of Aussie culture; language isnt a barrier for me. Family live in the perth area. I would love to meet ajahn brahm. I absolutely abhor their terrible driving laws and mostly eliminate the idea of moving there because of that alone. Then covid happened and omg human right violations that strike fear in anyone. Sure it's mostly east coast big cities and not perth. Flipside, I could own a holden ute maloo... in slipstream blue. Ya but the reason to leave my current country is human rights violations... not going to be moving to australia where they have human rights violations.
Caribbean islands certainly have an appeal, but those aside. Same with any countries which im not welcome like the middle east.
Low tax rates and low government debt in lithuania is appealing but 15% inflation? Ouch. Also how about your neighbours building nuclear bombs? Basically the same problem for estonia and such. Lots to like with several of these countries but their neighbour(s) are a bit nutbar.
Czech republic is looking interesting. Good unemployment, good gdp, low government debt, good inflation, good taxes. Probably a disaster population decline issue incoming. Prusa3d is there. Language is probably a problem. Sudetenland a problem still? Probably far enough away from Russia. Certainly curious.
Switzerland, italy, and germany are probably much of the same as well with good situation. That balanced budget amendment is such a huge value, but you have to sit on a cushion during tax season. Otherwise they seem like good destinations. The problem though, language. I suck with language.
Australia has a ton going right. I love so much of Aussie culture; language isnt a barrier for me. Family live in the perth area. I would love to meet ajahn brahm. I absolutely abhor their terrible driving laws and mostly eliminate the idea of moving there because of that alone. Then covid happened and omg human right violations that strike fear in anyone. Sure it's mostly east coast big cities and not perth. Flipside, I could own a holden ute maloo... in slipstream blue. Ya but the reason to leave my current country is human rights violations... not going to be moving to australia where they have human rights violations.
> My country is very clearly not. Myriad of human rights are right now being violated. Protesting the government is basically illegal.
LOL. Folks, buddy here lives in Canada.
Where it’s so illegal to protest the government that the anti-vax shitheels have been holding weekend protests every goddamn weekend in every city for the past year or more, where anti-logging protesters blockaded a highway last week, and fucking anarchists held a somewhat violent protest in Montreal only two days ago. “BaSiCaLlY iLlEgAl!!!eleventyone”
Don’t let the door slam you in the ass when you leave, pal. Be quick.
LOL. Folks, buddy here lives in Canada.
Where it’s so illegal to protest the government that the anti-vax shitheels have been holding weekend protests every goddamn weekend in every city for the past year or more, where anti-logging protesters blockaded a highway last week, and fucking anarchists held a somewhat violent protest in Montreal only two days ago. “BaSiCaLlY iLlEgAl!!!eleventyone”
Don’t let the door slam you in the ass when you leave, pal. Be quick.
Czech republic is a solid choice, but beware there has been a massive Russian propaganda/disinformation campaign going on for decades (not as strong as in Donetsk, but recently growing rapidly). There is also a sizeable opposition against this disinformation pandemic. A couple of years ago a Russian sabotage got an ammunition house exploded and that was when people started talking more about Russians agents in Europe.
Sudetenland, on the other hand, I have never heard to be a big problem post WWII and Velvet Revolution.
Language will definitely be a problem, even in Prague.
Sudetenland, on the other hand, I have never heard to be a big problem post WWII and Velvet Revolution.
Language will definitely be a problem, even in Prague.
>Czech republic is a solid choice, but beware there has been a massive Russian propaganda/disinformation campaign going on for decades (not as strong as in Donetsk, but recently growing rapidly).
Russia is Canada's neighbour. Russia has operatives here as well.
>Language will definitely be a problem, even in Prague.
Like I tried learning french and non j'etais merde. Cant imagine how much effort would be needed to learn a slavic language from scratch. This might be one of the key factors. If my government doesn't start returning our rights and freedom, it's being compared against the main of moving across the globe to a new country and integrating.
Russia is Canada's neighbour. Russia has operatives here as well.
>Language will definitely be a problem, even in Prague.
Like I tried learning french and non j'etais merde. Cant imagine how much effort would be needed to learn a slavic language from scratch. This might be one of the key factors. If my government doesn't start returning our rights and freedom, it's being compared against the main of moving across the globe to a new country and integrating.
>Russia is Canada's neighbour. Russia has operatives here as well.
I am not very familiar with Russian operations in Canada, but my guess would be they are different from those in the post-Soviet countries. I did not give Donetsk as an example randomly. Russia would like take over post-Soviet countries again. Although they would like to avoid armed conflict if possible (for a good reason, as they apparently suck at it), so they influence politicians and journalists and instill anti-Western and sometimes pro-Russian propaganda. There are multiple politicians in Czech republic that have been serving Putin in this way for a long time.
> If my government doesn't start returning our rights and freedom
I first thought you were from Russia or China. On the grand scheme of things, Canada is a very free country. You will not find much more freedom elsewhere, and if so, then it's going to cost you freedom in another way.
I am not very familiar with Russian operations in Canada, but my guess would be they are different from those in the post-Soviet countries. I did not give Donetsk as an example randomly. Russia would like take over post-Soviet countries again. Although they would like to avoid armed conflict if possible (for a good reason, as they apparently suck at it), so they influence politicians and journalists and instill anti-Western and sometimes pro-Russian propaganda. There are multiple politicians in Czech republic that have been serving Putin in this way for a long time.
> If my government doesn't start returning our rights and freedom
I first thought you were from Russia or China. On the grand scheme of things, Canada is a very free country. You will not find much more freedom elsewhere, and if so, then it's going to cost you freedom in another way.
>I first thought you were from Russia or China. On the grand scheme of things, Canada is a very free country. You will not find much more freedom elsewhere, and if so, then it's going to cost you freedom in another way.
Canada was fantastic to live in if you had asked me in 2019; easily one of the best countries in the world. I never considered for a second leaving Canada. I consider the USA and depending on state some were more restrictive than others. Canada on the otherhand was next level totalitarian compared to everyone.
I got fully vax very early on and as I said, 'laptop class' so I am not personally affected to great degree. Canada changed big time, you can't even argue this has been done for the greater good. Which is what has been argued all all along, these changes weren't for covid. These far exceed anything reasonable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_issues_related_to...
It's offensive to me that Canada was excluded from this wiki page.
Azerbaijan arrested at least 6 activists... Canada arrested hundreds. Declared national emergency and is still holding some of these people in prison for being apart of a legitimate protest. Months later without charge... They are still adding charges to some. Bank accounts seized. It's coming out right now that the military is actively tracking all Canadians.
Here's some pastor: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-pastor-artur-...
He was charged and arrested because of organizing an outdoor protest? There was literally judge ordered compelled speech where you cannot criticize covid response in any way. Another judge stayed the order.
Justice Jo'Anne Strekaf of the Alberta Court of Appeals temporarily blocked sanctions issued by Court of Queen's Bench Justice Adam Germain against Polish-Canadian pastor Artur Pawlowski, according to a written ruling published Wednesday.
>In China, many patients had to be turned away from hospitals after hours of queuing due to the high number of ill people
So the queues were long?
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-s-10-p-m-curfew-will-be-l...
Quebec had a 10pm curfew up to january 2022...
At 10:30pm you were no longer legally allowed to leave wherever you were, no excpetions. The virus is more dangerous at 10:30pm then at 9:30pm. https://twitter.com/gharperkelley/status/1477067682533027842
Note no exceptions, you break your arm... you aren't going to the hospital. You arrive at the hospital and you're going to be arrested. Many people were arrested. Hell each time they tried to protest against it, they were all arrested and fined.
Those Quebec Nurses are literally enslaved by the government, they are going to comply and call the police on you: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/nurses-union-submits...
Let's not forget that if you are unvaccinated... you cannot legally go to the hospital. My coworker's mom was in the hospital on her deathbed for a couple months and he could not legally go see her and say good bye.
I am fully vaccinated and I couldnt go see my grandma before she passed in the hospital. She was in there over a month. There was a possibility but I had to get pre-approval from the hospital administration to go see her. Which I never got approved in time before she passed away.
>Suppression of information
Medicine requires informed consent but the government suppressed any opposing information. They absolutely said the vaccine prevents infection. That vaccination will get us out of the pandemic... etc etc lies.
>Several countries have unlawfully and arbitrarily held migrants, refugees and asylum-seekers in detention, constituting a violation of international law and human rights. Amnesty International criticized the governments of the United States, Mexico, Canada, Curaçao, and Trinidad and Tobago for continuing to "collectively detain tens of thousands of adults, families, and children in immigration detention facilities" amid COVID-19.[
Canada is in the list, but it wasn't just migrants. It was literally everyone. You were arbitrarily detained for 2 weeks for 'quarantine'. You didn't get free food or accommodations neither. You were forced to be there and you were forced to pay for everything in these detention centers. Some people got bills over $1000. If you refused to pay, they didn't even charge you... they literally took it out of your bank account without your consent. No judge order nothing like that.
>Freedom of movement
This is still a problem today. If you're unvaccinated... you can't leave the country. You can't reasonably move around the country even. I violated the 'only essential travel' laws multiple times during covid. I knew how to avoid the few checkpoints.
>Lockdown restrictions in certain countries imposed a limit of practitioners attending a religious ceremony.
That's what got my coworker to be an antivaxxer. They were arresting priests and pastors like mad. Arthur above is but 1 example.
Anyway this is long and could be much longer. Canada has a great reputation for being a free place. That changed in the last 2 years. Covid was only an excuse. Sure there's some places that are worse in the world but I don't want to wait and see how much worse it gets.
Canada was fantastic to live in if you had asked me in 2019; easily one of the best countries in the world. I never considered for a second leaving Canada. I consider the USA and depending on state some were more restrictive than others. Canada on the otherhand was next level totalitarian compared to everyone.
I got fully vax very early on and as I said, 'laptop class' so I am not personally affected to great degree. Canada changed big time, you can't even argue this has been done for the greater good. Which is what has been argued all all along, these changes weren't for covid. These far exceed anything reasonable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_issues_related_to...
It's offensive to me that Canada was excluded from this wiki page.
Azerbaijan arrested at least 6 activists... Canada arrested hundreds. Declared national emergency and is still holding some of these people in prison for being apart of a legitimate protest. Months later without charge... They are still adding charges to some. Bank accounts seized. It's coming out right now that the military is actively tracking all Canadians.
Here's some pastor: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-pastor-artur-...
He was charged and arrested because of organizing an outdoor protest? There was literally judge ordered compelled speech where you cannot criticize covid response in any way. Another judge stayed the order.
Justice Jo'Anne Strekaf of the Alberta Court of Appeals temporarily blocked sanctions issued by Court of Queen's Bench Justice Adam Germain against Polish-Canadian pastor Artur Pawlowski, according to a written ruling published Wednesday.
>In China, many patients had to be turned away from hospitals after hours of queuing due to the high number of ill people
So the queues were long?
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-s-10-p-m-curfew-will-be-l...
Quebec had a 10pm curfew up to january 2022...
At 10:30pm you were no longer legally allowed to leave wherever you were, no excpetions. The virus is more dangerous at 10:30pm then at 9:30pm. https://twitter.com/gharperkelley/status/1477067682533027842
Note no exceptions, you break your arm... you aren't going to the hospital. You arrive at the hospital and you're going to be arrested. Many people were arrested. Hell each time they tried to protest against it, they were all arrested and fined.
Those Quebec Nurses are literally enslaved by the government, they are going to comply and call the police on you: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/nurses-union-submits...
Let's not forget that if you are unvaccinated... you cannot legally go to the hospital. My coworker's mom was in the hospital on her deathbed for a couple months and he could not legally go see her and say good bye.
I am fully vaccinated and I couldnt go see my grandma before she passed in the hospital. She was in there over a month. There was a possibility but I had to get pre-approval from the hospital administration to go see her. Which I never got approved in time before she passed away.
>Suppression of information
Medicine requires informed consent but the government suppressed any opposing information. They absolutely said the vaccine prevents infection. That vaccination will get us out of the pandemic... etc etc lies.
>Several countries have unlawfully and arbitrarily held migrants, refugees and asylum-seekers in detention, constituting a violation of international law and human rights. Amnesty International criticized the governments of the United States, Mexico, Canada, Curaçao, and Trinidad and Tobago for continuing to "collectively detain tens of thousands of adults, families, and children in immigration detention facilities" amid COVID-19.[
Canada is in the list, but it wasn't just migrants. It was literally everyone. You were arbitrarily detained for 2 weeks for 'quarantine'. You didn't get free food or accommodations neither. You were forced to be there and you were forced to pay for everything in these detention centers. Some people got bills over $1000. If you refused to pay, they didn't even charge you... they literally took it out of your bank account without your consent. No judge order nothing like that.
>Freedom of movement
This is still a problem today. If you're unvaccinated... you can't leave the country. You can't reasonably move around the country even. I violated the 'only essential travel' laws multiple times during covid. I knew how to avoid the few checkpoints.
>Lockdown restrictions in certain countries imposed a limit of practitioners attending a religious ceremony.
That's what got my coworker to be an antivaxxer. They were arresting priests and pastors like mad. Arthur above is but 1 example.
Anyway this is long and could be much longer. Canada has a great reputation for being a free place. That changed in the last 2 years. Covid was only an excuse. Sure there's some places that are worse in the world but I don't want to wait and see how much worse it gets.
Bolivia, Peru.