Mobile Carrier To Sell Service for $19/mo; Android Handsets For $99 Until Nov 27(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Mobile Carrier To Sell Service for $19/mo; Android Handsets For $99 Until Nov 27
http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/07/disruptive-mobile-carrier-republic-wireless-to-sell-handsets-for-99-until-november-27/
61 comments
RepublicWireless.com just went live with all the details. Here's the catch (they're quite transparent about it):
The phone monitors how much data you're sending over Wifi vs cellular, and if you're using a disproportionate amount of cell data compared to the rest of the community, they can boot you.
"The best way to know how you're doing is by checking out your Cellular Usage Index (CUI). If it's too high, we'll let you know and give you tips to bring it down. You have plenty of time. But meanwhile, you still pay a flat fee of $19/month no matter what."
The phone monitors how much data you're sending over Wifi vs cellular, and if you're using a disproportionate amount of cell data compared to the rest of the community, they can boot you.
"The best way to know how you're doing is by checking out your Cellular Usage Index (CUI). If it's too high, we'll let you know and give you tips to bring it down. You have plenty of time. But meanwhile, you still pay a flat fee of $19/month no matter what."
> if you're using a disproportionate amount of cell data compared to the rest of the community, they can boot you.
Sounds like a simple prisoner's dilemma, with the "selfish" incentive driving people to lower the total consumption. Of course, the prisoner's dilemma only has the optima it does because of a lack of shared information; people can cooperate when they can strategize in some out-of-band way.
For this service, the "cooperation" strategy would entail everyone conspiring to drive the average up, so that the service provides more to everyone without anyone in particular having a "disproportionate" usage.
Sounds like a simple prisoner's dilemma, with the "selfish" incentive driving people to lower the total consumption. Of course, the prisoner's dilemma only has the optima it does because of a lack of shared information; people can cooperate when they can strategize in some out-of-band way.
For this service, the "cooperation" strategy would entail everyone conspiring to drive the average up, so that the service provides more to everyone without anyone in particular having a "disproportionate" usage.
At $19/month for unlimited, they're probably operating at a loss unless they can build up a significant customer base.
I imagine we'll see an incentive program soon..."Refer 5 friends and this month's bill is free." If you refer the 5 friends you talk to most, the company will save much more than $19.
VoIP is cool, but traditional phone calls and text messages are not always ideal. I think innovation on the communication channels themselves would go a long way for this company. Think http://voxer.com
Facebook is in a particularly good position to pull this off correctly. They already have a "cool" factor, and if they could come up with a communication tool that people really like, so much that you're jealous your friend has it but you don't, the people will come. Blackberry pulled this off for years with BBM, but lost its "cool" somewhat recently.
I imagine we'll see an incentive program soon..."Refer 5 friends and this month's bill is free." If you refer the 5 friends you talk to most, the company will save much more than $19.
VoIP is cool, but traditional phone calls and text messages are not always ideal. I think innovation on the communication channels themselves would go a long way for this company. Think http://voxer.com
Facebook is in a particularly good position to pull this off correctly. They already have a "cool" factor, and if they could come up with a communication tool that people really like, so much that you're jealous your friend has it but you don't, the people will come. Blackberry pulled this off for years with BBM, but lost its "cool" somewhat recently.
You are dead on about Facebook. Imagine if the conversation shifts from whats your phone number to whats your identity. A persons phone number is becoming increasingly less important.
> At $19/month for unlimited, they're probably operating at a loss unless they can build up a significant customer base.
that's a pretty bold statement. Care to elaborate?
Seems pretty expensive when i pay exactly that to AT&T to have 6mbps at my home. we're talking about 1mbps maximum here right?
that's a pretty bold statement. Care to elaborate?
Seems pretty expensive when i pay exactly that to AT&T to have 6mbps at my home. we're talking about 1mbps maximum here right?
Unlimited Voice and SMS to other carriers is expensive. Look at Twilio's pricing or Skype's pricing, or any other voip provider. Text and calling to your own network is essentially free, but off network gets expensive. Granted, I don't know how big of a cut these voip providers take, but I can't imagine it's that high.
Put it together with usage data, you quickly get over $19: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/online_mobile/u-s-teen-m...
Edit: Just want to point out, I'm not saying this is a bad bet to make. They can attract a ton of consumers with a super low cost, and if those consumers do most of their communication in-network, eventually they'll be in the green.
Put it together with usage data, you quickly get over $19: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/online_mobile/u-s-teen-m...
Edit: Just want to point out, I'm not saying this is a bad bet to make. They can attract a ton of consumers with a super low cost, and if those consumers do most of their communication in-network, eventually they'll be in the green.
I don't know the financial breakdown, but it's worth noting that Bandwidth.com — the company behind Republic Wireless — actually runs the VoIP backbone that powers Twilio, Google Voice, and other services. So I'd imagine they get a better rate :)
Very interesting, I had no idea. A little more digging brings me here:
http://bandwidth.com/about/read/verizonAgreement.html
"Bandwidth.com, Inc., a privately held telecommunications company in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, announced today that it has signed a commercial deal with the Verizon wireline companies under which the parties agree to terminate each other's VoIP traffic at a rate of $0.0007 per minute."
This is for landlines, but still a much lower number than I was expecting to see.
"Bandwidth.com, Inc., a privately held telecommunications company in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, announced today that it has signed a commercial deal with the Verizon wireline companies under which the parties agree to terminate each other's VoIP traffic at a rate of $0.0007 per minute."
This is for landlines, but still a much lower number than I was expecting to see.
Twilio and skype are not even to considered if your concerns are costs.
Other companies turn a profit with 1/10 to 1/100 of their prices.
Other companies turn a profit with 1/10 to 1/100 of their prices.
This isn't terribly amazing. I paid $130 for my Android phone, and pay $25/month through Virgin Mobile.
Is your $25/mo plan unlimited? Is Virgin Mobile's coverage as good as Sprint's (the network this will fall back to)?
What's amazing here is they are offering a Voip phone with a $19/mo plan (cheaper than, say Vonage at $25) plus fallback to a large mobile network. That is a pretty good price point.
What's amazing here is they are offering a Voip phone with a $19/mo plan (cheaper than, say Vonage at $25) plus fallback to a large mobile network. That is a pretty good price point.
The $25 plan from Virgin Mobile offers 300 minutes of talktime.
I use Google Voice and GrooveIP on my Optimus V on Virgin Mobile on the 300 minute/$25 month plan to get significantly more than 300 minutes of talk time, since data is "unlimited" (I'm sure it isn't really unlimited, but I've yet to hit any caps that I've noticed).
I agree with GP post though. This deal is good, but not quite as amazing as the article makes it seem. Even if you have to go with the newer pricing ($35 vs $25), Virgin Mobile has plans in this general range and their phones are a known quantity (and pretty well supported by CM7 ports).
I agree with GP post though. This deal is good, but not quite as amazing as the article makes it seem. Even if you have to go with the newer pricing ($35 vs $25), Virgin Mobile has plans in this general range and their phones are a known quantity (and pretty well supported by CM7 ports).
Virgin mobile uses Sprint's network.
virgin mobile is sprint. the network is the same. as is boost mobile. also, you're an idiot.
I did not realize Virgin Mobile used Sprint, or I would not have asked that question. The fact still remains that the proposed plan is unlimited and less expensive. Plus they intend to branch out to other mobile networks as well, so they could achieve better coverage.
Sprint bought Virgin out of Virgin Mobile USA a couple of years ago, so more than using Sprint, Virgin Mobile is simply a Sprint brand.
The "Sprint" Sprint brand has better coverage than the Virgin Mobile Sprint brand, presumably because of roaming agreements with Verizon.
The "Sprint" Sprint brand has better coverage than the Virgin Mobile Sprint brand, presumably because of roaming agreements with Verizon.
There's that and there's also the fact that Virgin is only allowed to use iDEN towers and not CDMA towers.
Virgin Mobile USA is CDMA.
Sprint operates two nationwide networks. Depending on the device and the services it provides you could be using the CDMA network or the iDEN network that is mostly used for prepaid phones and direct connect.
Sprint itself also has a CDMA voice and data roaming agreement with Verizon, which MVNOs and subsidiary brands do not benefit from.
Sprint itself also has a CDMA voice and data roaming agreement with Verizon, which MVNOs and subsidiary brands do not benefit from.
Virgin Mobile uses Sprint's CDMA network. Sprint has very good coverage in most major cities and along most interstate highways. That covers most of most peoples' lives, except the relatively small percentage of Americans in rural areas.
Virgin only uses iDEN. That's why their coverage is ass. You could be standing in line sight of a tower and have zero connectivity because that tower isn't supported.
Wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Mobile_USA "wireless voice, messaging and broadband data services to subscribers throughout the United States via the Sprint Nextel CDMA PCS network"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_Mobile "Boost Nationwide Unlimited (AKA Monthly Unlimited Plan), which differs from their previous UNLTD plans, is offered for iDEN handsets as of January 22, 2009 and CDMA as of January 2010"
The reason you have sucky coverage is the PRL list is much more limited for Virgin phones and they don't allow roaming. Update the list and get better signal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Mobile_USA "wireless voice, messaging and broadband data services to subscribers throughout the United States via the Sprint Nextel CDMA PCS network"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_Mobile "Boost Nationwide Unlimited (AKA Monthly Unlimited Plan), which differs from their previous UNLTD plans, is offered for iDEN handsets as of January 22, 2009 and CDMA as of January 2010"
The reason you have sucky coverage is the PRL list is much more limited for Virgin phones and they don't allow roaming. Update the list and get better signal.
that isn't true, they are on the sprint cdma towers. Boost is their pre-paid brand that's on iden. Virgin won't roam on to verizon, though, which sprint handsets will.
I have that too. The speed sucks dick but it's cheap.
Thoughts:
Thoughts:
1. I really hope it knows to just use cell while driving instead of trying to connect to random passing APs.
2. Am I the only person in America constantly surrounded by secured/non-free Wifi?
3. Why wouldn't I just pay less for my phone and $10 more a month for Virgin Mobile?Indirectly answering your point #3 above, this would appeal to inter-country travellers. More specifically, there is probably a sizeable segment of customers who travel back and forth between Canada and the US where this would be a hit.
At $19/month, it's also cheap enough to be a work/travel phone that is assigned to you. Although there is a growing trend for IT-consumerization and multi-SIMs, there are still plenty of people who prefer to keep physically separate personal and work mobile devices. This could easily appeal to them and organizations.
For a smaller (but very lucrative segment) of roaming subscribers, being able to use a single phone number accessible over WiFi no matter what country you're in is a compelling value prop; no more need to worry about data/voice add-on packages.
It's like being able to take your voip line with you on your phone, accessible through one number. Surprisingly, nobody else can offer that right now. The closest we've got is FaceTime (cellular network for voice; free voice calling if you're on wifi and reaching out to another iOS device), and even that doesn't quite provide the same convenience.
And with declining voice revenues, carriers are fighting a losing battle knowing their margins are being squeezed. They are deathly afraid of voip cannabilizing their voice revenues.
This is a good move by Sprint. I wonder if they have any equity in Republic Wireless.
At $19/month, it's also cheap enough to be a work/travel phone that is assigned to you. Although there is a growing trend for IT-consumerization and multi-SIMs, there are still plenty of people who prefer to keep physically separate personal and work mobile devices. This could easily appeal to them and organizations.
For a smaller (but very lucrative segment) of roaming subscribers, being able to use a single phone number accessible over WiFi no matter what country you're in is a compelling value prop; no more need to worry about data/voice add-on packages.
It's like being able to take your voip line with you on your phone, accessible through one number. Surprisingly, nobody else can offer that right now. The closest we've got is FaceTime (cellular network for voice; free voice calling if you're on wifi and reaching out to another iOS device), and even that doesn't quite provide the same convenience.
And with declining voice revenues, carriers are fighting a losing battle knowing their margins are being squeezed. They are deathly afraid of voip cannabilizing their voice revenues.
This is a good move by Sprint. I wonder if they have any equity in Republic Wireless.
It's a nice idea in theory, but if it gets popular it'll just become more expensive as it eats into the bottom line of the bigger carriers. It's like POTS/DSL: you can't cut out the middle man when they own the equipment. Even Virgin upped their fees.
The fact of the matter is, if there was stable free wifi everywhere many of us wouldn't be using cell networks. But it's not going to happen. Europe is even worse; better hope there's a McDonalds near you when you want to make a call.
I'm going to bet that most people are just suckers for the brand-new expensive-yet-crappy smartphone and getting locked into another phone on another untested carrier isn't going to sway many of them. And Wifi on all the time? There goes your battery life.
(p.s. I don't know what kind of phone they're offering first, but that disassembled phone on their front page is identical to my LG Optimus V - from Virgin)
The fact of the matter is, if there was stable free wifi everywhere many of us wouldn't be using cell networks. But it's not going to happen. Europe is even worse; better hope there's a McDonalds near you when you want to make a call.
I'm going to bet that most people are just suckers for the brand-new expensive-yet-crappy smartphone and getting locked into another phone on another untested carrier isn't going to sway many of them. And Wifi on all the time? There goes your battery life.
(p.s. I don't know what kind of phone they're offering first, but that disassembled phone on their front page is identical to my LG Optimus V - from Virgin)
I think the idea is that you spend most of your time at home, work, or school. Places which you generally have full access to the wifi network.
I haven't had any issues with the speed recently. Maybe that's because I'm in an area with pretty good Sprint service. There were significant network issues back when they first introduced the Optimius V, but those seem pretty well fixed by now.
Virgin's coverage is ass.
It really depends on where you are. I've only ever had issues with coverage in one place, and everyone else (on other carries) had the same issues.
[deleted]
Agreed. So imagine what this other company's coverage will be like - and they aren't owned by Sprint like Virgin Mobile US is. (incidentally, if you update your PRL on your Virgin phone to a Sprint list you get better service...)
How would I update my PRL? And what would I update it to? I had no idea that these caveats existed on Sprint's network, I had just (naviely?) assumed all Sprint-based service was "the same"
If you google usually you can find a guide for your phone on HTC or other developer/modder/hacker forums for smartphones. It involves getting codes specific to your phone and using some software and a USB data cable to upload new settings to the phone. It's similar to firmware flashing.
Oh yeah, and they really really don't like you to do it because you're basically using parts of the network they don't want you to use. So whatever you do, don't tell Sprint customer service.
Oh yeah, and they really really don't like you to do it because you're basically using parts of the network they don't want you to use. So whatever you do, don't tell Sprint customer service.
same here and my speeds are excellent. I rarely have any complaints. I use GrooveIP for free GV voip, and the phones have great dev communities around them. I'm running cm 7.1 on my phone and for $100 phone it performs better than my old 3GS.
my biggest concerns would be-
Would loading custom roms effect their application/script?
Is it compatible with google voice?
my biggest concerns would be-
Would loading custom roms effect their application/script?
Is it compatible with google voice?
Just to capitalize on some of the VM love: if you have an android phone, you should give my Minutes Checker app a whirl! (It is free. And open source too. And very very useful.) https://market.android.com/details?id=com.jaygoel.virginminu...
I use it, and thank you, good app!
Thank you for not spamming anymore.
I have the same $25/month plan, but they upped it to $30/month ($35?) for new subscribers. Still best deal on a smartphone/data plan.
If this uses Sprint's network as well, then I suppose it comes down to minutes/MBs. I don't use enough of either so for me the math is simple: $19 < $25.
If this uses Sprint's network as well, then I suppose it comes down to minutes/MBs. I don't use enough of either so for me the math is simple: $19 < $25.
I wonder if they have any kind of soft/hard limits on how many minutes / how much data you can actually consume over the cellular network.
Theoretically, couldn't one could not join WiFi any networks and use Sprint most or all the time?
Theoretically, couldn't one could not join WiFi any networks and use Sprint most or all the time?
From their "What's the Catch" Page 550 minutes, 150 texts, and 300 MB of data using the cell (non wifi) network is what they refer to as their "fair use threshold" and they say that you will get a few warnings to use less cell data and more wifi. If you continue to go over, your plan will be cancelled. Or in their more polite phrasing "they'll help you find a traditional cell provider that is better suited for your needs"
They'll probably try to make it so that WiFi must always be on. Then again, it'll have to be locked on the device, so it wouldn't be very hard to get pass it once the phone was rooted (the devices will run Android [according to the article]).
Then, they would probably check to see who was using the majority of minutes/data on Sprint, and then have a talk with them (or throttle their data).
I'm curious as to what they would do with people who sign up and don't live in cities. If you live in rural areas, it's doubtful you'll have WiFi the majority of places you go. They would probably end up losing money on rural subscribers, then try to make profits from urban subscribers.
There might be a problem with a strategy like that though, because it doesn't seem their profit margins would be too high. I'm not sure how much it costs them to buy data in bulk from Sprint, but doing unlimited data for $19 isn't going to result in amazing profit margins. I'm also assuming that they won't be buying voice minutes, because if these devices can use multiple networks, the only way to keep a single phone number would be using VoIP. Of course, there's no way they would be buying text messages, because text messages can easily be sent over e-mail.
Then, they would probably check to see who was using the majority of minutes/data on Sprint, and then have a talk with them (or throttle their data).
I'm curious as to what they would do with people who sign up and don't live in cities. If you live in rural areas, it's doubtful you'll have WiFi the majority of places you go. They would probably end up losing money on rural subscribers, then try to make profits from urban subscribers.
There might be a problem with a strategy like that though, because it doesn't seem their profit margins would be too high. I'm not sure how much it costs them to buy data in bulk from Sprint, but doing unlimited data for $19 isn't going to result in amazing profit margins. I'm also assuming that they won't be buying voice minutes, because if these devices can use multiple networks, the only way to keep a single phone number would be using VoIP. Of course, there's no way they would be buying text messages, because text messages can easily be sent over e-mail.
> I'm curious as to what they would do with people who sign up and don't live in cities.
I'm guessing they'll offer it in one or two cities, call it a revolution, fail to generate revenue and fade quietly into tax write-off oblivion.
I'm guessing they'll offer it in one or two cities, call it a revolution, fail to generate revenue and fade quietly into tax write-off oblivion.
I hope this is just the beginning of a larger trend. I will check them out and I definitely wish them the best of luck. This is a market that desperately needs disruption.
Does anyone know of any comparable deals like this?
Does anyone know of any comparable deals like this?
In the US, Virgin Mobile (Sprint MVNO) offers 300 minutes/2.5gb/unlimited for $35 (used to be $25) and T-mobile offers 100 minutes/5gb/unlimited for $30.
Well they're not really disrupting anything, they're reselling Sprint, so they're actually helping Big Carrier.
Yea, they just tackled on Wi-Fi onto it. Thinking about it, I wonder if (maybe together with Tucows etc.) they could lobby the FCC and Congress to solve the problem, for example. Of course, it would not be that simple, but...
[deleted]
I think I am going to get one just for the few trips I make to the USA every year (Canadian). I have an address in the USA so I doubt it would be a problem.
This could be just the thing I have been looking for to check my emails and servers (religiously) at a decent cost compared to hotel and internet cafe prices. Not to mention the added convenience value. Some places charge almost $19/day for short term access so paying $140/year would be a steal.
This could be just the thing I have been looking for to check my emails and servers (religiously) at a decent cost compared to hotel and internet cafe prices. Not to mention the added convenience value. Some places charge almost $19/day for short term access so paying $140/year would be a steal.
The idea I had originally went out the door when I read about their "Cellular Usage Index" aka "their solution to their freeloader problem".
Basically if you use more than "$19 worth" of cellular service per month... they boot you off of their networks.
Basically if you use more than "$19 worth" of cellular service per month... they boot you off of their networks.
This is the future, and it is time that it happen. I was talking about this to a friend on the weekend - that cell phone companies are enjoying the last years of being able to confuse consumers to profit.
Deciding on a cell phone provider should be no different to internet providers - pay $20, $30 a month for a connection (unlimited) and that is that.
Deciding on a cell phone provider should be no different to internet providers - pay $20, $30 a month for a connection (unlimited) and that is that.
[deleted]
Any idea how much bandwidth this sort of voip uses? I'm wondering if it'll affect PC online FPS gaming or netflix streaming.
From http://republicwireless.com/how:
I have DSL at home. Will it work on that or will I have to upgrade to
something faster?
You need about 80kbps both ways to hold a call. The more bandwidth the better
for improved call quality. Don’t forget that streaming video or downloading
large files all use bandwidth, so your mileage may vary if you are trying to
make or receive calls and watch Netflix at the same time.
the monthly deal sounds great, but I'd like to know what phones we are allowed to use on the service. Is it going to be a low end barely useable phone or a nice smart phone?
ha! an LG phone. no thanks.
still interested on the plan if they provide an android image I can use with their wifi network.
still interested on the plan if they provide an android image I can use with their wifi network.
That phone is the LG Optimus.
Bandwidth.com has built up a whole country-wide internet backbone system of their own to carry VOIP traffic (they carry Google Voice, for example), with lots of connectivity to the local area terminal points (I forget the jargon for that).
We're really happy with Phonebooth.com (another Bandwidth initiative), who provide unlimited VOIP service (with a full virtual business PBX) to North America at $20/user/month. (And who apparently don't charge for calls to Europe (at least Ireland), as I found out recently.) It's perfect for our little 4-man distributed company; we each have a VOIP phone on our desks and can pretend we're all in the same office with extensions, etc.
Bandwidth.com seems like a company to watch...