Wandering Robots in the Wild(spectrum.ieee.org)
spectrum.ieee.org
Wandering Robots in the Wild
https://spectrum.ieee.org/wandering-robots-in-the-wild
35 comments
I'm imagining this feels like the first time you let your kid walk to a friends house - so curious, young, naïve, just wandering as you watch anxiously from the sidelines.
I would like to see one of those things wandering around my work office.
One word comes to mind when I think of free roaming robots - Jawas.
As a kid, a slightly distressing part of Star Wars was R2D2 getting zapped by a band of cute but spooky-eyed scavengers who kidnap and sell robots for spare parts!
Robots may survive in well lit, surveilled streets of Earth's cities, but they won't need to wander as far as outer-rim desert world of Tatooine to get into trouble.
A situation much like the early days of network hacking, but in the real physical world is latent. Despite benevolent anthropomorphism, robots aren't much loved by humans. They're packed with valuable electronics. But much more fun... they can be captured, hacked to perform the bidding of a new master and released back into circulation. Iran capturing the RQ-170 stealth drone in 2011 was almost inevitable but portends a new frontier in digital defence in physical space. Ultimately this leads to robots that can "defend themselves", and so to the obvious escalation of force between humans and machines.
For this reason I predict that, like domesticated dogs, robots have limited room to rove, close to protective masters.
As a kid, a slightly distressing part of Star Wars was R2D2 getting zapped by a band of cute but spooky-eyed scavengers who kidnap and sell robots for spare parts!
Robots may survive in well lit, surveilled streets of Earth's cities, but they won't need to wander as far as outer-rim desert world of Tatooine to get into trouble.
A situation much like the early days of network hacking, but in the real physical world is latent. Despite benevolent anthropomorphism, robots aren't much loved by humans. They're packed with valuable electronics. But much more fun... they can be captured, hacked to perform the bidding of a new master and released back into circulation. Iran capturing the RQ-170 stealth drone in 2011 was almost inevitable but portends a new frontier in digital defence in physical space. Ultimately this leads to robots that can "defend themselves", and so to the obvious escalation of force between humans and machines.
For this reason I predict that, like domesticated dogs, robots have limited room to rove, close to protective masters.
> Despite benevolent anthropomorphism, robots aren't much loved by humans.
That brings to mind the hitchBOT [1] experiment from 2013 to 2015. It did well - helped by media attention - in parts of Europe and Canada, but later came to grief in Philadelphia [2].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HitchBOT
[2] HN comment thread on HitchBOT destroyed in Philadelphia, ending U.S. tour
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9990881
That brings to mind the hitchBOT [1] experiment from 2013 to 2015. It did well - helped by media attention - in parts of Europe and Canada, but later came to grief in Philadelphia [2].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HitchBOT
[2] HN comment thread on HitchBOT destroyed in Philadelphia, ending U.S. tour
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9990881
Not the type of machine that can wander but...
Brazil has some experience with people being nasty to machines.
1. Robotic bank tellers (atm): we had a huge crime wave where people would literally blow them up to steal contents. It got so violent that some places refused to have one nearby, some explosions demolished buildings, and gun battles sometimes happened, one of them even involved people using anti-material sniper rifles and left the surroundings completely demolished and several corpses destroyed in gory ways (like people cut in half by bullets)
2. Only places where you can play arcade games are very secure (like airports), I asked a manufacturer about it, and he said any arcade game in a bar for example invariably get destroyed as people steal its components (chips, cables, etc... people steal the valuable silicon parts for sale, and the metallic ones like cables and connectors to melt down)
Brazil has some experience with people being nasty to machines.
1. Robotic bank tellers (atm): we had a huge crime wave where people would literally blow them up to steal contents. It got so violent that some places refused to have one nearby, some explosions demolished buildings, and gun battles sometimes happened, one of them even involved people using anti-material sniper rifles and left the surroundings completely demolished and several corpses destroyed in gory ways (like people cut in half by bullets)
2. Only places where you can play arcade games are very secure (like airports), I asked a manufacturer about it, and he said any arcade game in a bar for example invariably get destroyed as people steal its components (chips, cables, etc... people steal the valuable silicon parts for sale, and the metallic ones like cables and connectors to melt down)
> Robotic bank tellers (atm): we had a huge crime wave where people would literally blow them up to steal contents.
The method of choice in my part of the world is to use a JCB (or other brand of digger). Just a cursory search will show examples such as [1] and [2] in England and [3] in Ireland.
From [2] (with my apologies for it being the Daily Mail): There have also been a spate of similar robberies elsewhere in the country.
In November thieves used a digger to smash through the brick wall of Warner's Budgens in Moreton-in-Marsh, Gloucestershire, before fleeing the scene with the ATM.
In the same month, thieves pulled away bricks leaving a gaping hole in the side of a Co-op supermarket in Sapcote, Leicestershire, which took just 20 seconds.
Similar to the robbery in York, the digger was left at the scene.
Thieves also ploughed a stolen JCB digger in to a Marks & Spencer store before stealing the cash machine at Malvern Retail Park in Worcestershire.
[1] (England) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/jcb-thieves-ram-raid-b...
[2] (England) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2921779/Now-s-hole-...
[3] (Ireland) https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2022/0304/1284407-atm/
The method of choice in my part of the world is to use a JCB (or other brand of digger). Just a cursory search will show examples such as [1] and [2] in England and [3] in Ireland.
From [2] (with my apologies for it being the Daily Mail): There have also been a spate of similar robberies elsewhere in the country.
In November thieves used a digger to smash through the brick wall of Warner's Budgens in Moreton-in-Marsh, Gloucestershire, before fleeing the scene with the ATM.
In the same month, thieves pulled away bricks leaving a gaping hole in the side of a Co-op supermarket in Sapcote, Leicestershire, which took just 20 seconds.
Similar to the robbery in York, the digger was left at the scene.
Thieves also ploughed a stolen JCB digger in to a Marks & Spencer store before stealing the cash machine at Malvern Retail Park in Worcestershire.
[1] (England) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/jcb-thieves-ram-raid-b...
[2] (England) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2921779/Now-s-hole-...
[3] (Ireland) https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2022/0304/1284407-atm/
>For this reason I predict that, like domesticated dogs, robots have limited room to rove, close to protective masters.
Maybe, but robots will have something that domesticated dogs, and their wild counterparts, don't have - the ability to communicate and effectively (perfectly?) share information. Just like a driver would ask a gas station attendant for directions, a lost robot could ask a local one for information on its surroundings and use that to plot a course. My Roomba may not need to leave my house, but it could tell a passing delivery bot when it has arrived at what I consider my front door.
Maybe, but robots will have something that domesticated dogs, and their wild counterparts, don't have - the ability to communicate and effectively (perfectly?) share information. Just like a driver would ask a gas station attendant for directions, a lost robot could ask a local one for information on its surroundings and use that to plot a course. My Roomba may not need to leave my house, but it could tell a passing delivery bot when it has arrived at what I consider my front door.
> They're packed with valuable electronics ... they can be captured
Why people fuel this fantasy of roaming robots being stolen?
Of all valuable things that can be stolen, old cars are the easiest choice for a thief and robots are the worst.
An AI device filled to the brim with sensors, cameras, GPS and with remote connectivity is the perfect go-to-prison card.
> Ultimately this leads to robots that can "defend themselves", and so to the obvious escalation of force between humans and machines.
Is this scifi worldbuilding or reality? No, your new car is not going to incinerate thieves like in Robocop 2.
Why people fuel this fantasy of roaming robots being stolen?
Of all valuable things that can be stolen, old cars are the easiest choice for a thief and robots are the worst.
An AI device filled to the brim with sensors, cameras, GPS and with remote connectivity is the perfect go-to-prison card.
> Ultimately this leads to robots that can "defend themselves", and so to the obvious escalation of force between humans and machines.
Is this scifi worldbuilding or reality? No, your new car is not going to incinerate thieves like in Robocop 2.
> An AI device filled to the brim with sensors, cameras, GPS and with remote connectivity
Is therefore filled to the brim with valuables that an old car doesn't have.
Take for example the ZiGGY [1]. I predict that within 24 hours of it being in service, someone will lift one of them into a van, drive away with it to an abandoned shed, and tear it down for the batteries inside, before the owner can do anything about it.
[1] https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220614005357/en/EV-...
Is therefore filled to the brim with valuables that an old car doesn't have.
Take for example the ZiGGY [1]. I predict that within 24 hours of it being in service, someone will lift one of them into a van, drive away with it to an abandoned shed, and tear it down for the batteries inside, before the owner can do anything about it.
[1] https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220614005357/en/EV-...
>> An AI device filled to the brim with sensors, cameras, GPS and with remote connectivity
>Is therefore filled to the brim with valuables that an old car doesn't have.
Because cameras and GPSes are expensive now? Is a phone more expensive than car from 20 years ago then?
>Is therefore filled to the brim with valuables that an old car doesn't have.
Because cameras and GPSes are expensive now? Is a phone more expensive than car from 20 years ago then?
I'm not sure you can compare military drones flying in hostile airspace* to robo dogs in your neighbourhood.
After all real dogs and cats usually aren't in danger of kidnapping even though you could sell them or eat them or something. Indeed if they're anything like real animals, the biggest danger will be inattentive drivers.
* Have you considered not flying your military drones over other countries?
After all real dogs and cats usually aren't in danger of kidnapping even though you could sell them or eat them or something. Indeed if they're anything like real animals, the biggest danger will be inattentive drivers.
* Have you considered not flying your military drones over other countries?
> the biggest danger will be inattentive drivers.
I suspect the bigger danger will be vandalism. I will admit that the robots that wander my local grocery store looking for messes to clean up (or at least to alert humans to) make me irrationally angry. They get in my way and distract my attention, and it makes me want to just kick the *$%# out of them. I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way, and the more robots get 'out in the environment' without anybody watching out for them, the more people will damage them on purpose.
I suspect the bigger danger will be vandalism. I will admit that the robots that wander my local grocery store looking for messes to clean up (or at least to alert humans to) make me irrationally angry. They get in my way and distract my attention, and it makes me want to just kick the *$%# out of them. I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way, and the more robots get 'out in the environment' without anybody watching out for them, the more people will damage them on purpose.
This gives me the heebie-jeebies. I repair machines for a living, and the idea of smashing a complex mechanical system just to vent seems so alien.
I’ve had my self-whatever vacuum and mop for awhile now and I still look at it proudly as it mops the house.
I do feel a sort of spirit in the machine for these new AI gadgets, even though I am aware of the reality of it.
I do feel a sort of spirit in the machine for these new AI gadgets, even though I am aware of the reality of it.
I wonder why don't they just program them to ask and follow directions from people. It has served humanity well for almost all of its existence.
Of course, it goes against the current trend in technology, which is all about giving individuals complete independence from other individuals, so they can ignore them as much as they want... but hell, wouldn't it make a robot look _way_ more trustworthy and friendly, if you see first that they trust _you_, by asking for your help?
Natural language processing just isn't far enough along to understand human direction giving.
source: For my masters degree I wrote a paper on the grounding problem (linking words said to physical objects), specifically the spatial reasoning component ("please give me the book on the table in the corner). We were able to get very simple commands to work, but anything remotely complicated, especially with a temporal aspect or things that can't immediately be seen (keep going until you see the red building, then turn left) is the realm of future research
source: For my masters degree I wrote a paper on the grounding problem (linking words said to physical objects), specifically the spatial reasoning component ("please give me the book on the table in the corner). We were able to get very simple commands to work, but anything remotely complicated, especially with a temporal aspect or things that can't immediately be seen (keep going until you see the red building, then turn left) is the realm of future research
> Natural language processing just isn't far enough along to understand human direction giving.
https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.04429 https://arxiv.org/abs/2204.01691#google https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.05608#google https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.05608#google https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.01115 etc
https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.04429 https://arxiv.org/abs/2204.01691#google https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.05608#google https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.05608#google https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.01115 etc
Did you see Google's robocall demo?
That's disappointing! SHRDLU was such an impressive demo, all the way back in 1970 - was that research a dead end, then? You'd think we'd have progressed.
A large part invoves the transition between a simulation world, in which the properties of objects is known for certain (size, location, properties like colour) to a world where these properties have to be ascertained from computer vision.
Relative size, position, etc can be tricky to determine as they aren't just classification problems but require segmentation and spatial reasoning. Especially taking into account any difference in perspective between the user and the robot, as well as context (what does "above" mean on a map vs in a tower of blocks, or what does "left" mean if you are facing me)
Relative size, position, etc can be tricky to determine as they aren't just classification problems but require segmentation and spatial reasoning. Especially taking into account any difference in perspective between the user and the robot, as well as context (what does "above" mean on a map vs in a tower of blocks, or what does "left" mean if you are facing me)
Doesn't have to be natural language to get assistance - it could be as simple as 'Can you point to the direction on my screen'.
Starship Robotics has a pilot in Milton Keynes in the UK for their delivery robots, and came across the problem of pedestrian crossings where you need to push a button to change the traffic lights & cross. Rather than engineering a solution that required changing the crossings or putting some complex robot-arm on to push the button, they just play a pre-recorded message begging humans to press the button for it.
It's easy to devise complex solutions which you can't implement - but it sometimes involves a bit more creativity when you constrain yourself to simple and implementable solutions!
Starship Robotics has a pilot in Milton Keynes in the UK for their delivery robots, and came across the problem of pedestrian crossings where you need to push a button to change the traffic lights & cross. Rather than engineering a solution that required changing the crossings or putting some complex robot-arm on to push the button, they just play a pre-recorded message begging humans to press the button for it.
It's easy to devise complex solutions which you can't implement - but it sometimes involves a bit more creativity when you constrain yourself to simple and implementable solutions!
"You only have to go this way over there, over there where the shop of the old... what was his name?... you know, i can guarantee you he makes the best chillie... ah, where was i? Yeah, now, go this way..." (etc, etc)
This is a fairly accurate description of a "guide" i got from a nice guy after asking him where my hotel may be... and now imagine the software that must be involved to decode THIS...
This is a fairly accurate description of a "guide" i got from a nice guy after asking him where my hotel may be... and now imagine the software that must be involved to decode THIS...
I'm sure this would result in a lot of robots being told where to go.
I used to own an early-generation Roomba. I believe, the entirety of its sensors were:
- microswitches that trigger if it ran into something
- a set of photodiodes for detecting "cliffs", i.e. keep it from falling down the stairs
- another photodiode for sensing the dock's IR beacon
- something that looked like a step counter (but it kept getting gunked up, yet never impacted the robot's behaviour - which makes me believe it wasn't actually used for anything)
No cameras, LIDARs or internet connection, and I'm pretty sure no local mapmaking either.
Movement was essentially random, with a small set of heuristics and preprogrammed patterns. When you were actually watching the robot, the random movement was kind of ennerving - it would frequently clean the same spot over and over again, while completely missing another spot right next to it.
However, when setting the robot on a daily cleaning schedule, the random movements would even out and the room would be cleaned pretty well in the end.
- microswitches that trigger if it ran into something
- a set of photodiodes for detecting "cliffs", i.e. keep it from falling down the stairs
- another photodiode for sensing the dock's IR beacon
- something that looked like a step counter (but it kept getting gunked up, yet never impacted the robot's behaviour - which makes me believe it wasn't actually used for anything)
No cameras, LIDARs or internet connection, and I'm pretty sure no local mapmaking either.
Movement was essentially random, with a small set of heuristics and preprogrammed patterns. When you were actually watching the robot, the random movement was kind of ennerving - it would frequently clean the same spot over and over again, while completely missing another spot right next to it.
However, when setting the robot on a daily cleaning schedule, the random movements would even out and the room would be cleaned pretty well in the end.
I had one of those, and I think the cliff detector was even more basic - a sensor that brushed against the floor and tripped when it no longer was pressed. I remember being disappointed when I learned that it's approach to sweeping was "do it for a long time and eventually you'll get everything." Maybe, but I had higher expectations. Mine also regularly blew through the IR "walls" and got stuck under a dresser, waiting for me to return home with it's familiar "help" beeps.
Then you had a different model. The one bit I know for certain about mine was that the cliff detector was optical.
How? By noticing one day that the black areas of my striped carpet were inexplicably accumulating more dirt than the rest of it. Took me some time to find out that the robot treated black floor as "hole in the ground" and made an active effort not to drive over it...
> Mine also regularly blew through the IR "walls" and got stuck under a dresser, waiting for me to return home with it's familiar "help" beeps.
Yup, got those often enough as well...
How? By noticing one day that the black areas of my striped carpet were inexplicably accumulating more dirt than the rest of it. Took me some time to find out that the robot treated black floor as "hole in the ground" and made an active effort not to drive over it...
> Mine also regularly blew through the IR "walls" and got stuck under a dresser, waiting for me to return home with it's familiar "help" beeps.
Yup, got those often enough as well...
Ah, the old Looney Tune hole in the floor trick.
I know it's cynical but having lived in rough areas I get a chuckle out of sheltered engineers designing these and not expecting teenagers to absolutely destroy them in the wild. The poor Estonians can't grok what it's like in East Palo Alto.
It wouldn't survive a day in Baltimore.
Just like that pile of junk, AKA "hitchbot", in Philly.
I find it funny that those who call others sheltered in Silicon Valley (and they're right), think that East Palo Alto is the rough neighborhood. They should spend some time in the really bad slums and crime spots around the world with dozens of murders a day, rampant violence, and lack of security.
Ah, does this mean that, robot-wise, we should focus efforts on developing something along the lines of ED-209 [1]?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ED-209
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ED-209
Come to Baltimore and find out - nothing like prototyping in the field