Inside the Irish Republican Army (1994)(spin.com)
spin.com
Inside the Irish Republican Army (1994)
https://www.spin.com/2015/08/inside-the-ira-spins-1994-feature/
125 comments
It’s kind of unclear from the article where this claim even comes from.
Was this something the journalist claimed to somehow know or was it something that the PIRA had told him?
Neither of them would be in a position to know especially at the time it was written, but it has all the hallmarks of the kind of “the enemy is 10ft tall” stories that tend to turn up in the fog of war.
The next part of that quote (in the article) though certainly suggests that the PIRA had perfectly good evidence to suggest that SOMETHING like this was happening based on their experience of actively manipulating it to their advantage.
It sounds reasonable as a concept without having to back up the specific technical claims of how the monitoring itself actually worked or it’s particular capabilities.
I could for example see it as something much closer to a manual operation IRL that just targeted the phones of know and suspected members along with payphones in certain areas and it would have appeared the same way to them.
They weren’t actually a particularly large organisation IRL and those passing operational messages over a public phone network was even smaller.
I’d hazard a guess that it’s not actually THAT difficult to put together a target list for surveillance that would narrow the scope down to something fairly reasonable. You aren’t actually looking for full coverage in this scenario you’re looking for a good signal to noise ratio and it ends up becoming a question of which calls are “unusual” and you could get a long way to answering with metadata alone, long before you ever thought to pass the actual contents of the call to an analyst.
Was this something the journalist claimed to somehow know or was it something that the PIRA had told him?
Neither of them would be in a position to know especially at the time it was written, but it has all the hallmarks of the kind of “the enemy is 10ft tall” stories that tend to turn up in the fog of war.
The next part of that quote (in the article) though certainly suggests that the PIRA had perfectly good evidence to suggest that SOMETHING like this was happening based on their experience of actively manipulating it to their advantage.
It sounds reasonable as a concept without having to back up the specific technical claims of how the monitoring itself actually worked or it’s particular capabilities.
I could for example see it as something much closer to a manual operation IRL that just targeted the phones of know and suspected members along with payphones in certain areas and it would have appeared the same way to them.
They weren’t actually a particularly large organisation IRL and those passing operational messages over a public phone network was even smaller.
I’d hazard a guess that it’s not actually THAT difficult to put together a target list for surveillance that would narrow the scope down to something fairly reasonable. You aren’t actually looking for full coverage in this scenario you’re looking for a good signal to noise ratio and it ends up becoming a question of which calls are “unusual” and you could get a long way to answering with metadata alone, long before you ever thought to pass the actual contents of the call to an analyst.
> How plausible was that in 1993?
Keyword detection was alleged in 1980s, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON & https://techcrunch.com/2015/08/03/uncovering-echelon-the-top...
Keyword detection was alleged in 1980s, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON & https://techcrunch.com/2015/08/03/uncovering-echelon-the-top...
The most surprising part is that the technology could understand a Belfast accent. Even in 2022 Siri says "Hello" back to me when I begin a question with the word "How..."
It almost certainly did not operate in any way similar to how it was described in the article. See my other comment but I highly suspect this was a much simpler solution in real life. I don't think there was any monitoring of "code words" at all or even any automated voice detection. It just seemed that way to outsiders because all they ever saw was the correlation without actually understanding the capabilities behind the scenes.
The ECHELON keyword searches were against faxes and cables (and even then, the reporting breathlessly noted the tens of keywords they could search for at a time, and the carefully managed dictionaries). Against a whole country's voice phone traffic?
AI pioneer Oliver Selfridge was a source for Duncan Campbell's 1980s reporting, so there was at least one competent scientist involved, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Selfridge. If it's still an open question after three decades, perhaps we'll never know.
AT&T deployed a speaker independent keyword based system called VRCP in 1992 that automated some operator assisted calls. So keyword recognition at utility scale was plausible but there is a difference in scale between some fancy IVR tech and scanning millions of phone calls.
There were ICs in 80s consumer electronics that could do primitive recognition of prerecorded words. These could have been adapted to monitor all calls and flag them for human monitoring.
Looking for a short list (closed vocab) of words is far easier than going for the tens of thousands of words that something like transcription requires. Also you can accept quite high false positives. A HMM is adequate.
Dragon dictate was released in 1990.
Wasn't there something around it where it didn't make it to market after, or got bought and suppressed? I worked for someone who worked on it, and I remember his view was it got sabotaged somehow.
1993 was peak ECHELON conspiracy theory and really, that was an era of fax machines and mostly rare 300-1200baud modems. Commercially available hardware included the Cray EL90, and the Sun SPARC lines. Knowing what we do now, as a capability, even just trolling through basic fax OCR, aided by some traffic analysis, and a reduced list of potential targets (early social graph analysis), it seems plausible that a probabilistic and unreliable fishing expedition version of this existed - and then after some "limited hangout" leaks, there was also plausibly something on the traffic analysis side that detected anyone exercising any opsec capabilities at all in response to it, and then they focus workflows on those people.
It's as simple as getting phone records into a Sun workstation, sending an asset into the area to a pub to spread the rumor calls are being monitored, looking for a change in behavior in the data, then focusing on whoevers records change after your asset is sent in. Not saying this happened, but if you're in the threat hunting business, it seems like a pretty obvious low cost win within the capabilities of the tech at the time.
1993 was peak ECHELON conspiracy theory and really, that was an era of fax machines and mostly rare 300-1200baud modems. Commercially available hardware included the Cray EL90, and the Sun SPARC lines. Knowing what we do now, as a capability, even just trolling through basic fax OCR, aided by some traffic analysis, and a reduced list of potential targets (early social graph analysis), it seems plausible that a probabilistic and unreliable fishing expedition version of this existed - and then after some "limited hangout" leaks, there was also plausibly something on the traffic analysis side that detected anyone exercising any opsec capabilities at all in response to it, and then they focus workflows on those people.
It's as simple as getting phone records into a Sun workstation, sending an asset into the area to a pub to spread the rumor calls are being monitored, looking for a change in behavior in the data, then focusing on whoevers records change after your asset is sent in. Not saying this happened, but if you're in the threat hunting business, it seems like a pretty obvious low cost win within the capabilities of the tech at the time.
There was a huge financial fraud involving a Belgian company, Lernout & Hauspie, which acquired many of the other startups doing voice recognition and then went bust. The guy who built Dragon NaturallySpeaking and owned Dragon Systems was paid in ultimately completely worthless shares of L&H.
The technology was bought out of bankruptcy and successfully commercialized. One of the two guys involved in the fraud claimed he was a victim of a CIA conspiracy, although the other one admitted the fraud.
The technology was bought out of bankruptcy and successfully commercialized. One of the two guys involved in the fraud claimed he was a victim of a CIA conspiracy, although the other one admitted the fraud.
Technology wasn't quite that primitive. 9600+ baud was common in the early 90s. The USR HST modem launched in 1986.
Hmm.. Analog "Vocoder" technology was invented in 1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocoder
So I'd imagine that by 1993 it would have been possible to do analog voice coding, digitize the codes, and then a mainframe could scan through the codes which are just "envelopes of the bandpass filters". (Just a guess)
So I'd imagine that by 1993 it would have been possible to do analog voice coding, digitize the codes, and then a mainframe could scan through the codes which are just "envelopes of the bandpass filters". (Just a guess)
Maybe tens of hundreds of officers listening to multiple calls?
Thanks for this. I'm currently reading We Don't Know Ourselves [1] and this is a great sidebar.
There were over 10000 bombings during the Troubles [2]. Hard to imagine now.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/sep/20/we-dont-know-o...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bombings_during_the_Tr...
There were over 10000 bombings during the Troubles [2]. Hard to imagine now.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/sep/20/we-dont-know-o...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bombings_during_the_Tr...
Ah, yes, the IRA. Two special things about them, for me...
Decades ago, I knew a very nice, educated Irish-American gentleman, who'd grown up over there. Deep knowledge of European history, fascinating to listen to for hours, etc. But if he had a drink or two, he'd re-tell the story of the Proudest Moment of his life: Back in Ireland, when (thanks to his Sherlock Holmes knowledge and insight) he had managed to "out" several Protestants as such - in circumstances rough enough that being outed immediately lead to their being murdered. IANAL, but he showed nothing resembling regret, and never asked anyone to keep quiet about it. For me, he was a pretty visceral education in just how nice and educated someone can be...and yet still be so malicious as to boast of murdering complete strangers.
Talking about the War on Terror(tm) with folks (say, 99% of modern Americans) who really don't know squat about European history, the IRA can be extremely useful as a real-world example - where both sides are white Christians. When folks who claim to educated, unprejudiced, etc. make moralistic statements about government policies or situations involving Arabs, Islamic extremists, etc. - just re-cast the situation with the IRA, in the UK, during the Troubles. Are they comfortable with what they said, in that context? Generally no. Their reactions can be pretty educational.
Decades ago, I knew a very nice, educated Irish-American gentleman, who'd grown up over there. Deep knowledge of European history, fascinating to listen to for hours, etc. But if he had a drink or two, he'd re-tell the story of the Proudest Moment of his life: Back in Ireland, when (thanks to his Sherlock Holmes knowledge and insight) he had managed to "out" several Protestants as such - in circumstances rough enough that being outed immediately lead to their being murdered. IANAL, but he showed nothing resembling regret, and never asked anyone to keep quiet about it. For me, he was a pretty visceral education in just how nice and educated someone can be...and yet still be so malicious as to boast of murdering complete strangers.
Talking about the War on Terror(tm) with folks (say, 99% of modern Americans) who really don't know squat about European history, the IRA can be extremely useful as a real-world example - where both sides are white Christians. When folks who claim to educated, unprejudiced, etc. make moralistic statements about government policies or situations involving Arabs, Islamic extremists, etc. - just re-cast the situation with the IRA, in the UK, during the Troubles. Are they comfortable with what they said, in that context? Generally no. Their reactions can be pretty educational.
This is very common in the Balkans. The Hague was full of lawyers, doctors, poets, playwrights, psychiatrists and historians accused of vicious war crimes
I don’t know why you are being downvoted. My parents grew up during a similar ethno-religious insurgency and the scars of growing up not knowing whether your parents or siblings would get back home safe because of sociopathic individuals on a powertrip continue to haunt them and our entire family to this day. When exclusive affiliations consumes your entire identity, this can become a dangerous combination
Also, a meta commentary @dang - why are a number of comments against the IRA being downvoted? There were no saints in the Troubles and it’s startling to see comments opposing an actual sectarian terrorist group being downvoted to oblivion.
Also, a meta commentary @dang - why are a number of comments against the IRA being downvoted? There were no saints in the Troubles and it’s startling to see comments opposing an actual sectarian terrorist group being downvoted to oblivion.
> I don't know why you are being downvoted.
Ditto, though I'm more inclined to suspect my War on Terror comment. "Terrorist" - similar to "witch", "*igger", "atheist", "commie", "homosexual", and a number of other terms which change over time - seems mostly a label to stick on a person or group in order to proclaim that it is "okay" to hate, dehumanize, commit atrocities against, etc. them. For all too many folks, their "Licence to Hate" is one of their most precious possessions.
Ditto, though I'm more inclined to suspect my War on Terror comment. "Terrorist" - similar to "witch", "*igger", "atheist", "commie", "homosexual", and a number of other terms which change over time - seems mostly a label to stick on a person or group in order to proclaim that it is "okay" to hate, dehumanize, commit atrocities against, etc. them. For all too many folks, their "Licence to Hate" is one of their most precious possessions.
he had managed to "out" several Protestants as such - in circumstances rough enough that being outed immediately lead to their being murdered
I haven't downvoted you. But this story (ie that told by your interlocutor) doesn't sound credible to me. The fault line in Northern Ireland isn't religious, but between (Irish) nationalists and (British) unionists, for which Catholic and Protestant identities are only proxies.
There is a long history of Protestant involvement in the Irish nationalist movement, up to and including the Troubles. The lead trainer for the IRA during that period (whose name I'd have to look up) has given interviews emphasizing that religious identity was not a valid criterion for target selection. If I remember correctly the interview is in the first or second episode of the recent BBC series on the Troubles.
I haven't downvoted you. But this story (ie that told by your interlocutor) doesn't sound credible to me. The fault line in Northern Ireland isn't religious, but between (Irish) nationalists and (British) unionists, for which Catholic and Protestant identities are only proxies.
There is a long history of Protestant involvement in the Irish nationalist movement, up to and including the Troubles. The lead trainer for the IRA during that period (whose name I'd have to look up) has given interviews emphasizing that religious identity was not a valid criterion for target selection. If I remember correctly the interview is in the first or second episode of the recent BBC series on the Troubles.
I don't see conflict between your facts and mine. The old man I knew clearly had a number of "traditional, Catholic bigotries". He was also clearly pro-Catholic & anti-protestant when talking about the history of England, France, Germany, etc. And far too admiring of Germany's National Socialist movement of the 1920's - 1940's. And other "clearly not PC" opinions.
If you're not familiar with this cluster of memes, give a quick read to a far-better-known example here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin Though my old acquaintance differed from Fr. Coughlin on a number of points.
Vs. any IRA leader, speaking to a wider audience in the media, would have obvious PR reasons to downplay the religious aspects of the conflict. Nothing special about this.
Also worth a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarian_violence_among_Chris... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Irelan... The history of Ireland has very clear, hellishly brutal Catholic vs. Protestant roots for the more-recent Troubles.
If you're not familiar with this cluster of memes, give a quick read to a far-better-known example here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin Though my old acquaintance differed from Fr. Coughlin on a number of points.
Vs. any IRA leader, speaking to a wider audience in the media, would have obvious PR reasons to downplay the religious aspects of the conflict. Nothing special about this.
Also worth a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarian_violence_among_Chris... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Irelan... The history of Ireland has very clear, hellishly brutal Catholic vs. Protestant roots for the more-recent Troubles.
I'm intimately familiar with the history, thanks. I'm not expressing doubt in you, but about your acquaintance, and whether religious identity alone was enough to get other people murdered on the spot as he told you. Also it's hard to square his support of national socialism in Germany with support for the IRA, as Irish nationalists tend toward being old-line socialists/trade unionists.
Irish nationalists had opportunistically friendly relations with Germany during WW1 but not really during WW2, and most Irish that traveled to the Spanish Civil war fought on the Republican side, though some threw in with Franco because of his support for the Catholic church.
Irish nationalists had opportunistically friendly relations with Germany during WW1 but not really during WW2, and most Irish that traveled to the Spanish Civil war fought on the Republican side, though some threw in with Franco because of his support for the Catholic church.
> “Nah, it’s just weird, maybe… But I look forward to when me and the family can go to a King Willie parade and enjoy ourselves and the music, you know, like we do in Armagh on St Patrick’s Day. Is that crazy?”
Still largely can't do this, even in 2022, without the rather serious risk of severe injury or worse.
Still largely can't do this, even in 2022, without the rather serious risk of severe injury or worse.
Well.. It depends,East Belfast, yeah. Rural areas, I hear a lot of the parades a these days are low key with little hardliner involvement and safe enough
Tbf most of the PUL folks I know are from around ... That area.
Have a few good friends in around Lurgan who reckon I'd have a great time, but also reckon I'd end up in several bags after.
Have a few good friends in around Lurgan who reckon I'd have a great time, but also reckon I'd end up in several bags after.
I've known many curious Catholics to watch the parades in rural areas. No one in the lodges is bothered by it.
But yeah, inner city is different.
But yeah, inner city is different.
Very interesting article, does anyone know if the photos that go with it are available anywhere?
anewpersonality(13)
Similarly, the telephone grid is scanned at a rate exceeding one million calls per minute for conversation suspected of being useful to the IRA. The moment a trigger word or phrase is uttered, the line is tapped and a detective put on the case. My Belfast friends keep correcting my perception of this snooping. [...]
How plausible was that in 1993? Scanning dialed numbers, sure, but voice recognition?