The Nord Stream leaks are a wake-up call for countries with vulnerable pipelines(npr.org)
npr.org
The Nord Stream leaks are a wake-up call for countries with vulnerable pipelines
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/03/1126517181/nord-stream-pipeline-leaks-protecting-critical-infrastructure
27 comments
Weird formulation to call it a leaks. While true, it doesn't quite capture the fact that it was deliberate sabotage. You know, it's like saying "the 9/11 plane crashes are a wake-up call for countries with vulnerable skyscrapers". Just feels off.
I'm probably a cynic, but it feels intellectually dishonest.
What's the proof it was sabotage though?
If it was just one of the pipelines the question would have merit.
The odds of two pipelines spontaneously failing within minutes of each other yet kilometers apart seems slim.
The odds of two pipelines spontaneously failing within minutes of each other yet kilometers apart seems slim.
Do the Russians control the valves for both? I read somewhere from an engineer that it could have been a maintenance mistake.
I would like to read that take, do you have the source?
Given such an incredibly low probability of accidental failure, the burden of proof is shifted to the more extraordinary claim. So a better question would be, what's the proof that it wasn't sabotage?
How about the third possibility?
Accident / Incompetence?
https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html
https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html
While probably true, it is nearly impossible to prove a negative....
i.e.: Give me a proof that God doesn't exist
i.e.: Give me a proof that God doesn't exist
Just as deep sea pipelines can be blown up, so submarine communication cables can be cut just as easily. This can have devastating effects on the knowledge economy, remote working, WFH, so very relevant for HN.
I think we should all be much more worried about what happens when communication lines are cut.
The USA's message is clear: "We will condemn your children to freezing to death if we decide it benefits our strategic plans."
There are no immovable mountain. Everything is vulnerable, everything exists because it, or something esle, didn't break/transform it into something else.
This gets lost in conversation because what is said rarely communicates all the nuances related to what actually is. It may be said something is done - this pipeline has been built, obviously none of that communicates the choices made, the corners cut, and all their pros and cons. So people assume what they wish on what isnt said, and invariably they will communicate what their understanding is, more details are lost, and we end up with statements like this, that have always been true, said like it's some sort of epiphany.
Until we can tap the whole of knowledge and understandings when communicating, this will always happen.
Please someone come up with the semantic calculator, not ML FFS, a semantic calculator, a tool that deterministically can put into relation concepts of higher degree than what can be done with prepositional logic. This way when you encode the whole of knowledge into it, encode what you already think you know, and then you can query it to get what you need without having to parse an entire book, article or paper and all their references.
This gets lost in conversation because what is said rarely communicates all the nuances related to what actually is. It may be said something is done - this pipeline has been built, obviously none of that communicates the choices made, the corners cut, and all their pros and cons. So people assume what they wish on what isnt said, and invariably they will communicate what their understanding is, more details are lost, and we end up with statements like this, that have always been true, said like it's some sort of epiphany.
Until we can tap the whole of knowledge and understandings when communicating, this will always happen.
Please someone come up with the semantic calculator, not ML FFS, a semantic calculator, a tool that deterministically can put into relation concepts of higher degree than what can be done with prepositional logic. This way when you encode the whole of knowledge into it, encode what you already think you know, and then you can query it to get what you need without having to parse an entire book, article or paper and all their references.
Very philosophical take on things.
> There are no immovable mountain. Everything is vulnerable, everything exists because it, or something esle, didn't break/transform it into something else.
Vulnerability is what humans would use do describe how something alive and conceptually "whole". It is something can can be exploited to inverse those properties. If we are all just matter in different configurations, in a universe full of matter in infinite combinations, "vulnerable" loses its meaning.
So perhaps, in the larger scale of things, nothing is truly vulnerable.
> There are no immovable mountain. Everything is vulnerable, everything exists because it, or something esle, didn't break/transform it into something else.
Vulnerability is what humans would use do describe how something alive and conceptually "whole". It is something can can be exploited to inverse those properties. If we are all just matter in different configurations, in a universe full of matter in infinite combinations, "vulnerable" loses its meaning.
So perhaps, in the larger scale of things, nothing is truly vulnerable.
There is always an existential risk at hand.
What pipelines aren't vulnerable? There was one in New Jersey that blew up almost years ago because some clever excavator had used the trench to dispose of an unusable car. That worked nicely until it didn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edison,_New_Jersey_natural_gas...
There is a lot of over land infrastructure in all countries that is very vulnerable. There has been an attempt to start to bury some of it underground which helps protect it but a lot is still exposed. Oil, gasoline, diesel, propane, methane, butane, hydrogen, ammonia, alcohol, heating oil, jet fuel, water, steam, sewage, beer, slurry, benzene, irrigation, milk, petroleum derived chemical feedstock, and brine pipelines; electric power cables; roads; chemical factories, internet and telecommunication lines; security system lines; and more. It is not all that difficult to get someone inside a country where they can wreak havoc on exposed infrastructure. Russia is just as vulnerable to this as anyone else. Weather regularly disrupts many of them. Drones are used to monitor some of them. It may be easier to be covert when blowing up an under-ocean line, but the ones on land would not be too difficult to get at. Might be cheaper than using a submarine. Some can be attacked via the internet.
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And with vulnerable plans, like the Netherlands and the envisioned sea walls!