Use a developer desktop setup instead of a laptop(theserverside.com)
theserverside.com
Use a developer desktop setup instead of a laptop
https://www.theserverside.com/opinion/Use-a-developer-desktop-setup-instead-of-a-laptop
49 comments
While the article makes some good points I still prefer having a laptop with a decent desktop setup (docking station with external monitor and wired networking, mouse, keyboard; the laptop sits on a stand and doubles as a second display) my two main reasons are : I only need to manage a single machine (I have little time or patience to look after a flock of computers) and when I do need to travel I just unplug the laptop and off I go.
>While the article makes some good points I still prefer having a laptop with a decent desktop setup
The article is stupid, because in the mind of the article's writer, docking stations do not exist. He talks about things like nice mechanical keyboards, multiple monitors, how bad laptop ergonomics are, etc. But none of those are issues when you have a good docking station; it's exactly like having a desktop, though possibly with a higher price tag (but not higher than having a desktop + a laptop). The writer seems to not even know about the very existence of docking stations, or else he would have said something about them.
>I only need to manage a single machine (I have little time or patience to look after a flock of computers) and when I do need to travel I just unplug the laptop and off I go.
These are the exact reasons I now refuse to own or use a desktop PC. My docking station setup with dual 27" monitors and mechanical keyboard is fantastic, but if I need to go somewhere, it's trivial to just unplug the single Thunderbolt cable and go (just make sure not to forget the travel power adapter!).
The article is stupid, because in the mind of the article's writer, docking stations do not exist. He talks about things like nice mechanical keyboards, multiple monitors, how bad laptop ergonomics are, etc. But none of those are issues when you have a good docking station; it's exactly like having a desktop, though possibly with a higher price tag (but not higher than having a desktop + a laptop). The writer seems to not even know about the very existence of docking stations, or else he would have said something about them.
>I only need to manage a single machine (I have little time or patience to look after a flock of computers) and when I do need to travel I just unplug the laptop and off I go.
These are the exact reasons I now refuse to own or use a desktop PC. My docking station setup with dual 27" monitors and mechanical keyboard is fantastic, but if I need to go somewhere, it's trivial to just unplug the single Thunderbolt cable and go (just make sure not to forget the travel power adapter!).
Any docking station recommendations? I have a current model maxed out MBP 16” and have been meaning to merge it with my aging Mac Mini dual monitor setup.
[deleted]
I use this dock along with a 5120x1440 monitor as my main docked environment. Had absolutely zero issues: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-thunderbolt-dock
Bought it four times now (two cities, one setup for each myself and my partner). Neither of us have had an issue with any.
Bought it four times now (two cities, one setup for each myself and my partner). Neither of us have had an issue with any.
I looked at the Caldigit but had some reservations based on online reviews. Ultimately a coworker recommended a Dell WD19S and specifically said to look for one on eBay - took about a week of hunting and bidding but I scored one for about half retail and have been quite happy with it, it just works all the time. The laptop in question is a Dell xps13 running Ubuntu 20.04.
If you can afford the caldigit, it’s a premium unit but seriously good and quite popular.
It gets REALLY hot though which sketches me out. Also the USB ports put out hardly any power if you’re hoping to charge from them, it can even keep up with light phone usage.
I use 2 Thinkpad P27u-20 monitor, they have thunderbolt 4 with daisy chaining, ethernet and power delivery.
Basically the docking station is in the monitor.
I think this was true ten years ago when laptops could not effectively drive two monitors, and had some serious deficiencies in the processor/ram/HDD space. I would put up with the duplicate desktop/portable system so that I had sufficient power when writing code.
These days, my work laptop happily drives a pair of QuadHD monitors, and even suffices for light gaming. I have yet to max out all the cores and ram. On top of that, I no longer have to deal with having two systems and all the data shenanigans that goes along with that.
These days, my work laptop happily drives a pair of QuadHD monitors, and even suffices for light gaming. I have yet to max out all the cores and ram. On top of that, I no longer have to deal with having two systems and all the data shenanigans that goes along with that.
This must depend on the kind of work you're doing. For any kind of mildly serious with a compiled language, a laptop is still woefully inadequate. Its still difficult to find a laptop with 32 gb of ram, let alone 64. But working on a large c++ codebase, I routinely max out 32 gb and compilation still takes roughly 5 times as long on my high end xps compared to my workstation.
> This must depend on the kind of work you're doing.
Very much so, but 10 years ago most devs suffered on a laptop, now most devs would not.
Obviously if your workstation reference is a multi-socket beast then you will not be satisfied with a laptop, but most devs aren't recompiling large codebases from scratch every time.
> Its still difficult to find a laptop with 32 gb of ram, let alone 64.
I can't quickly find one with 64GB, but there's Lenovo Thinkpads with 48 GB (which is what I have), along with with 8/16T Ryzen cores. I can't speak to what it's like recompiling large C++ codebases, but I don't wait when it comes to compiling things written in golang fwiw.
Very much so, but 10 years ago most devs suffered on a laptop, now most devs would not.
Obviously if your workstation reference is a multi-socket beast then you will not be satisfied with a laptop, but most devs aren't recompiling large codebases from scratch every time.
> Its still difficult to find a laptop with 32 gb of ram, let alone 64.
I can't quickly find one with 64GB, but there's Lenovo Thinkpads with 48 GB (which is what I have), along with with 8/16T Ryzen cores. I can't speak to what it's like recompiling large C++ codebases, but I don't wait when it comes to compiling things written in golang fwiw.
There are models in the Thinkpad P line that can be maxed out at 128GB.
Yeah exactly. My fairly basic MacBook Pro back in 2014 was capable of driving 2 4K displays on the intel GPU. It was not going to win benchmarks but it never slowed me down in day-to-day work until it aged beyond its useful life.
A desktop computer that you leave at the office in 2022 is the height of status and luxury.
My first job out of college was for a government agency where everyone had an assigned desk with a desktop PC. The people at the top of the org chart all had laptops with docking stations so they could be mobile. Of course they almost never were mobile, but their laptop was a physical reminder that they were more important than the rank and file, because they could be off to meetings in D.C. any time!
Years later, I have a corporate laptop that I am forced to schlepp back and forth to work if I choose to go into the office. I usually don't choose to go to the office, because the office is an open plan, hot-desk model. Pack it in, pack it out. There are no pictures, desk toys, ergonomic keyboards, or anything personal—just a standing desk with the same generic keyboard, mouse, docking station, and monitor that are magically reverted to their standard position within minutes of you leaving the area.
Packing up for the day and leaving the factors of production at the office along with any expectation of telepresence sounds... opulent. I maintain that a desktop isn't a computing form factor, but is instead a place and a lifestyle.
My first job out of college was for a government agency where everyone had an assigned desk with a desktop PC. The people at the top of the org chart all had laptops with docking stations so they could be mobile. Of course they almost never were mobile, but their laptop was a physical reminder that they were more important than the rank and file, because they could be off to meetings in D.C. any time!
Years later, I have a corporate laptop that I am forced to schlepp back and forth to work if I choose to go into the office. I usually don't choose to go to the office, because the office is an open plan, hot-desk model. Pack it in, pack it out. There are no pictures, desk toys, ergonomic keyboards, or anything personal—just a standing desk with the same generic keyboard, mouse, docking station, and monitor that are magically reverted to their standard position within minutes of you leaving the area.
Packing up for the day and leaving the factors of production at the office along with any expectation of telepresence sounds... opulent. I maintain that a desktop isn't a computing form factor, but is instead a place and a lifestyle.
I'm surprised most of the comments here are in favor of laptops. I find them deficient in almost every way outside of portability (which, admittedly, is a huge positive). The best laptop keyboards are worse than a cheap desktop keyboard, the trackpads are always worse than a mouse, the monitor is deficient, they have no expandability, the ergonomics are horrible, and so on. I've always felt my productivity was way down on a laptop.
I'd agree with you if the argument was "full desktop setup" vs "just a laptop". I sometimes envy people who can spend all day using only their laptop. After a few hours bent to look at my 12 inch screen, my neck and back scream.
But when using a laptop with a dock, a big external monitor, external keyboard, mouse etc, I don't see the point in using a desktop machine anymore.
But when using a laptop with a dock, a big external monitor, external keyboard, mouse etc, I don't see the point in using a desktop machine anymore.
Unless you really need the mobility, a desktop is just the simpler setup, and (at least for PCs) can run more quietly under heavier load, because of better thermals due to the larger case. It’s also simpler to just add another SSD or more RAM when you need it, add/replace the GPU, etc.
That's true if you only have one location to worry about. But a laptop is simpler if you need to, for example, travel between home and work while keeping the OS / apps / files the same.
Yes, that’s why I wrote “unless you really need the mobility”.
Some employers don’t allow company data (which includes all dev work) on computers outside the company premises. Work from home is done via remote desktop. In that case, the work environment is completely independent from your location and client hardware.
Some employers don’t allow company data (which includes all dev work) on computers outside the company premises. Work from home is done via remote desktop. In that case, the work environment is completely independent from your location and client hardware.
Agree with you on laptops not being ergonomic by themselves for long term use.
Perhaps not an issue for many development activities, but anything involving lots of calculations (CPU or GPU) will inevitably generate a lot of heat.
Desktops tend to be better at dissipating heat.
In a previous job, our desktops massively out performed our similar spec laptops for long running simulations.
Also you can typically attach more storage and GPUs to a desktop than a laptop if you need to.
Perhaps not an issue for many development activities, but anything involving lots of calculations (CPU or GPU) will inevitably generate a lot of heat.
Desktops tend to be better at dissipating heat.
In a previous job, our desktops massively out performed our similar spec laptops for long running simulations.
Also you can typically attach more storage and GPUs to a desktop than a laptop if you need to.
So, just like the article writer, you seem to have never heard of this handy thing called a "docking station".
Article makes a bizarre assertion that a mouse is more productive than a trackpad. Anything that moves my hand from the home row reduces productivity. I can use my thumbs on the trackpad in most cases were a mouse action is absolutely required.
Well, I suppose the assertion could be true of non-apple trackpads.
Well, I suppose the assertion could be true of non-apple trackpads.
If it works for you, that’s okay. I used various macbooks for over 10 years and their trackpads are great.
However, two years ago, after switching to an external keyboard (hello, butterfly keyboard…), I started using an external gaming mouse with a large gaming pad.
On a work laptop I use the magic trackpad.
The mouse is such an ergonomy upgrade. Bonus point, no more wrist problems.
However, two years ago, after switching to an external keyboard (hello, butterfly keyboard…), I started using an external gaming mouse with a large gaming pad.
On a work laptop I use the magic trackpad.
The mouse is such an ergonomy upgrade. Bonus point, no more wrist problems.
The article also makes the bizarre assumption that you can't plug a mouse into a laptop, or an external keyboard, or even a docking station with all your favorite full-size accessories and multiple large monitors.
I'd agree on the upgrades and repair arguments.
From an ergonomic/setup side, of course using laptops doesn't prevent you from using a dock, with external monitors, external keyboard and all. In fact a docked laptop that you can pick up in seconds when needed is way easier to deal with than two machines.
About the cost, do like we nerds do: buy refurbished thinkpads. For most software dev, having the latest i9 is not necessary. Old thinkpad workstations are perfect as desktop replacement machines and are somewhat upgradeable. I'm sure this doesn't scale that much but small-scale companies can do this without any trouble. Worked perfectly in a previous company I worked for. People were actually pretty happy we didn't buy 2000€ new stuff while 700€ already-on-the-planet stuff was more than enough.
From an ergonomic/setup side, of course using laptops doesn't prevent you from using a dock, with external monitors, external keyboard and all. In fact a docked laptop that you can pick up in seconds when needed is way easier to deal with than two machines.
About the cost, do like we nerds do: buy refurbished thinkpads. For most software dev, having the latest i9 is not necessary. Old thinkpad workstations are perfect as desktop replacement machines and are somewhat upgradeable. I'm sure this doesn't scale that much but small-scale companies can do this without any trouble. Worked perfectly in a previous company I worked for. People were actually pretty happy we didn't buy 2000€ new stuff while 700€ already-on-the-planet stuff was more than enough.
The proposed desktop+low cost laptop doubles the number of devices th IT org needs to maintain and secure. Sounds like a nightmare when I’m sure some laptops will sit powered off for months or could walk away without an employee realizing they are missing.
The alternative I’ve seen is to have a pool of laptops people can borrow when they need one, and only employees that travel a lot have a permanent laptop instead of a desktop.
The choice of development system and configuration is a matter of personal choice.
Personally, I find laptop screens too close and I need my reading glasses. Whilst with the three desktop LCDs they are further away and I don't need the glasses.
Personally, I find laptop screens too close and I need my reading glasses. Whilst with the three desktop LCDs they are further away and I don't need the glasses.
I work at a remote (except for quarterly in person) company. The thought has entered my head more than once, especially given that when we are in a group setting, someone in management always says “close your laptops”.
I wonder if laptops were more appropriate when remote wasn’t so commonplace. You’d be lugging your laptop to work and then back home (to be available? Or do more work? Not sure what was wanted here but it’s a tangent for sure) now it makes more sense to prioritize an effective machine and not one that costs boatloads just for more RAM. Seriously, Apple could finally find more devs springing for their MacPros.
I wonder if laptops were more appropriate when remote wasn’t so commonplace. You’d be lugging your laptop to work and then back home (to be available? Or do more work? Not sure what was wanted here but it’s a tangent for sure) now it makes more sense to prioritize an effective machine and not one that costs boatloads just for more RAM. Seriously, Apple could finally find more devs springing for their MacPros.
Meanwhile, I’ve not owned a desktop for about 5-6 years now. I invested heavily into a good docking station setup that eventually evolved into an eGPU setup. Means I own one macbook for dev work, and play games on boot camp with the GPU. Not as cheap but the convenience has been really nice.
Work computers I’ve been given over the years plug into that same docking station when I WFH and my ergonomics don’t change. I have one cable that goes into the work or personal machine depending on time of day.
I’m saddened by the fact that I’ll have to downgrade to a dumb dock when I receive an apple silicon Mac, as these don’t support eGPUs
Work computers I’ve been given over the years plug into that same docking station when I WFH and my ergonomics don’t change. I have one cable that goes into the work or personal machine depending on time of day.
I’m saddened by the fact that I’ll have to downgrade to a dumb dock when I receive an apple silicon Mac, as these don’t support eGPUs
Even if they'd support eGPUs, you can't run Windows to play games anymore, can you?
Nope, quite unfortunate.
I’m probably an atypical case here, but the article lost me at the very first line:
> Don't get hung up on a laptop for software development, even if you work best from the couch
It’s not that I work best from the couch, but it’s that it’s refreshing to get away from the (standing) desk occasionally. When I need to be highly focused on what I’m doing, I appreciate my desk setup, but if there’s some light architectural design (read: diagramming) work or if I’m just drafting emails, I’m not hindered by being on the couch on a 16” display. In truth, I find it helps me decompress after standing got a few hours dealing with a problem with some intensity.
I’m aware that the article doesn’t make the point against working from a couch specifically, but ignoring potential employee benefit when thinking about what kind of machine to issue to employees does kind of miss the mark.
> Don't get hung up on a laptop for software development, even if you work best from the couch
It’s not that I work best from the couch, but it’s that it’s refreshing to get away from the (standing) desk occasionally. When I need to be highly focused on what I’m doing, I appreciate my desk setup, but if there’s some light architectural design (read: diagramming) work or if I’m just drafting emails, I’m not hindered by being on the couch on a 16” display. In truth, I find it helps me decompress after standing got a few hours dealing with a problem with some intensity.
I’m aware that the article doesn’t make the point against working from a couch specifically, but ignoring potential employee benefit when thinking about what kind of machine to issue to employees does kind of miss the mark.
I like my work laptop. I have an ergonomic desk setup with a dock. If I need to demo something I can pick up my laptop and go to a meeting with my environment already setup and ready.
I'd like a better performing computer but my laptop is super fast.
I'd like a better performing computer but my laptop is super fast.
Part of the appeal of a desktop is future upgrade-ability, which (unless work buys you a Framework) is pretty poor in most laptops (slightly better in some non-Apple machines, maybe you can at least add ram or a new / different SSD). I think for personal use desktops are pretty great, not that you couldn't get some of that out of using servers elsewhere (or even at home).
I've found desktop upgrades to be poor as well. For gaming it's great, you can upgrade to the latest graphics card and get a huge boost but for work not so great. By the time I want a new CPU I'm going to need a new motherboard to allow the next series of CPU.
I find I end up replacing so much that buying a new PC is not much more expensive.
I find I end up replacing so much that buying a new PC is not much more expensive.
Hmm, AMD's AM4 socket mobos can take kind of a lot of different Ryzens (though to be fair you might need a bigger PSU I guess). I guess maybe it would be more precise to say that most laptops aren't very futureproof because they've become increasingly everything-soldered, so it isn't even just a question of not being able to drop in a better CPU or GPU at some point, but of not being able to replace a bad SSD at all?
I agree it rarely works out for CPU, but SSD and RAM often makes sense.
For a lot of people, speed just isn't relevant. An M1 or M2 macbook air, even the old intel MBA, is plenty fast for lots of developers.
Cost is also often a non-issue. Let's say a desktop can save you $500 or so, or even $1000. That's at most $2.5 a day if you keep it for two years, it just isn't relevant to a developer making 50, 100 or 200 k a year.
When it comes to screens and ergonomics, that's largely subjective. For some tasks, I do prefer a large screen, for others it doesn't matter. But I always prefer a macbook keyboard with the built-in trackpad, super convenient.
Cost is also often a non-issue. Let's say a desktop can save you $500 or so, or even $1000. That's at most $2.5 a day if you keep it for two years, it just isn't relevant to a developer making 50, 100 or 200 k a year.
When it comes to screens and ergonomics, that's largely subjective. For some tasks, I do prefer a large screen, for others it doesn't matter. But I always prefer a macbook keyboard with the built-in trackpad, super convenient.
I develop and test on a machine that's nearly a decade old (with a newer graphics card though). I don't do a lot of huge compilation jobs, so it's not annoying to develop on for my use case, and I like it because it makes potential performance pitfalls more obvious and ensures things I build work reasonably on older hardware. I could certainly afford to upgrade my machine, but I'll hold off as long as I can.
I didn't read it because of the cookie nag screen which has legitimate interests all enabled and there's no reject all button.
Idc if the content on the site is zero point energy that solves world hunger and teleportation and whatnot. I am TIRED, no, FED UP of dealing with this.
Fix your cookie banners and your data collection. Stop spying on me.
Idc if the content on the site is zero point energy that solves world hunger and teleportation and whatnot. I am TIRED, no, FED UP of dealing with this.
Fix your cookie banners and your data collection. Stop spying on me.
From the HN guidelines: Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting.
Also, installing a content blocker may help. (I didn’t see any nag screen.)
Also, installing a content blocker may help. (I didn’t see any nag screen.)
Another option would be a cheap laptop (with a proper external monitor, keyboard etc) coupled with a cloud desktop. I feel like I don’t fully understand all the pros and cons of that approach though.
You’ll need some tolerance for the increased latency. Some people don’t notice it, some do.
I value mobility over a trendy mechanical keyboard and loud speakers. Working from wherever I want, carrying a nice laptop anywhere, that beats any of the questionable advantages of a desktop. What do real “developers” do that they need the equivalent of a 747? I just need ssh to a decent server.
Ergonomics are dismal on a laptop. Once you’ve lived with a good desktop setup for a while, using a laptop standalone is just painful.
I have worked with a desktop. For years. My career as a programmer far predates laptops.
Using a laptop may be painful for you. I don't find it painful or difficult or limiting. Plenty of programmers work from laptops. I understand it's not for everyone. Likewise a big desktop machine with multiple monitors and big speakers and all that is not for everyone. I travel a lot so a desktop computer won't work for me.
Posted from my laptop without any pain or inconvenience.
Using a laptop may be painful for you. I don't find it painful or difficult or limiting. Plenty of programmers work from laptops. I understand it's not for everyone. Likewise a big desktop machine with multiple monitors and big speakers and all that is not for everyone. I travel a lot so a desktop computer won't work for me.
Posted from my laptop without any pain or inconvenience.
For giggles I just tried booting into Linux on my gaming desktop. The screen goes black and I'm basically stuck. Linux works great on my dev laptop. My how the times have changed.