Ask HN: Burnt out from big tech. What's next?
181 comments
(OP here)
I wanted to avoid a wall of text, so I'll elaborate here on where I'm coming from.
My complaints with FAANG have to do with perverse incentives that reward nonsensical decisions, poorly thought-out and over-engineered projects, grandiose documents, duplication of work, selective reporting of metrics, etc.
The few times I had a really good manager, a sane environment, and fulfilling work only lasted until the next reorg. It seems like most organizations are either stressful with a lot of adversarial behavior, or have almost nothing to do but depressing busywork. I also find the social aspect lackluster if not downright alienating. I feel at a dead end both in career growth and opportunities to learn on the technical side. I could roll the dice with another team change, but I'm not eager at the prospects.
Most of my work experience is in ML, but I don't want to box myself into that. I find the current hype around generative models insufferable, and the typical ML project today consists of somewhat sloppy Python and a lack of good engineering practices. I'm also tired of the increasingly long and opaque feedback loops (come up with an idea, wait for your giant model to retrain, hope that some metric goes up). I'm still passionate about some aspects (e.g., learning representations, knowledge grounding, sane ML workflows).
I hear that academia has similar issues (though again I mostly know about ML), and I imagine lots of industries have worse conditions than tech. I realize that sloppiness and politics are a fact of life, so I'm wary of falling into the "grass is greener" trap.
My complaints with FAANG have to do with perverse incentives that reward nonsensical decisions, poorly thought-out and over-engineered projects, grandiose documents, duplication of work, selective reporting of metrics, etc.
The few times I had a really good manager, a sane environment, and fulfilling work only lasted until the next reorg. It seems like most organizations are either stressful with a lot of adversarial behavior, or have almost nothing to do but depressing busywork. I also find the social aspect lackluster if not downright alienating. I feel at a dead end both in career growth and opportunities to learn on the technical side. I could roll the dice with another team change, but I'm not eager at the prospects.
Most of my work experience is in ML, but I don't want to box myself into that. I find the current hype around generative models insufferable, and the typical ML project today consists of somewhat sloppy Python and a lack of good engineering practices. I'm also tired of the increasingly long and opaque feedback loops (come up with an idea, wait for your giant model to retrain, hope that some metric goes up). I'm still passionate about some aspects (e.g., learning representations, knowledge grounding, sane ML workflows).
I hear that academia has similar issues (though again I mostly know about ML), and I imagine lots of industries have worse conditions than tech. I realize that sloppiness and politics are a fact of life, so I'm wary of falling into the "grass is greener" trap.
I'm about to turn 40, was in something of the same situation if you squint a little. As with anything YMMV, but here's my advice.
Take your sabbatical, do something crafty but not-at-all-software-related*. I chose ceramics.
When you reach the point where you start programming tools to help with your new avocation, it's time to go back to the job market.
Took me about 5 months. I made some beautiful (and ugly!) things, learned maybe the equivalent of an accelerated BFA with a minor in chemistry, have a new hobby ongoing, and am excited and enthusiastic about joining a new company shortly, doing something new and different, where my skills matter.
* Woodworking, machining, welding, weaving, sewing, painting, bricklaying, stone carving, raising livestock, growing bonsai or orchids, meditation, long distance running. Whatever it is, pick something physical, grounded, and engrossing, where you can put a bunch of time and effort in, to achieve a real change of pace.
Take your sabbatical, do something crafty but not-at-all-software-related*. I chose ceramics.
When you reach the point where you start programming tools to help with your new avocation, it's time to go back to the job market.
Took me about 5 months. I made some beautiful (and ugly!) things, learned maybe the equivalent of an accelerated BFA with a minor in chemistry, have a new hobby ongoing, and am excited and enthusiastic about joining a new company shortly, doing something new and different, where my skills matter.
* Woodworking, machining, welding, weaving, sewing, painting, bricklaying, stone carving, raising livestock, growing bonsai or orchids, meditation, long distance running. Whatever it is, pick something physical, grounded, and engrossing, where you can put a bunch of time and effort in, to achieve a real change of pace.
If they think you're crude, go technical; if they think you're technical, go crude. I'm a very technical boy. So I decided to get as crude as possible. These days, though, you have to be pretty technical before you can even aspire to crudeness.
-- William Gibson, Johnny Mnemonic> If they think you're crude, go technical; if they think you're technical, go crude. I'm a very technical boy. So I decided to get as crude as possible. These days, though, you have to be pretty technical before you can even aspire to crudeness.
What a legendary quote. And very true. You might find that 'crude' things are technical in their own way.
What a legendary quote. And very true. You might find that 'crude' things are technical in their own way.
The passionate people that started all these companies wouldn't take most jobs in them today. The bureaucrats have taken over, even surprisingly in "startup" culture, not just FAANG. I don't think programming will retain value as a profession without being actively defended.
Exactly right.
These companies are bad news, completely random management, dead end projects.
Worse yet, if you work there, you are dramatically disconnected from the startup market. And prevented from getting modern skills.
At least in startups in theory skills are mor transferable because the market is larger.
I found large companies deeply unfulfilling and do not see myself going back: they are recipes for total frustration.
These companies are bad news, completely random management, dead end projects.
Worse yet, if you work there, you are dramatically disconnected from the startup market. And prevented from getting modern skills.
At least in startups in theory skills are mor transferable because the market is larger.
I found large companies deeply unfulfilling and do not see myself going back: they are recipes for total frustration.
I don't know if your lifestyle allows you some 'runway', but you may consider rekindling your passions by dedicating time to FOSS projects, where you don't have crazy management structure and can find a project where innovation is possible and aligns with your interests.
On that note, I’ll share my personal “FAANG-remedy” project here: https://blog.erlend.sh/reclaiming-my-digital-identity
I’m working on this with a dozen or so loosely connected, values-aligned people distributed across the globe. Matrix is a key part of the puzzle. You’re very welcome to just hang out and see if anything our collective is engaged in sparks your interest.
I’m working on this with a dozen or so loosely connected, values-aligned people distributed across the globe. Matrix is a key part of the puzzle. You’re very welcome to just hang out and see if anything our collective is engaged in sparks your interest.
Hey OP - I think I have been where you are a couple of times in my career. For me, taking time off has been the answer, optionally structured as a cold-turkey break for a month (travel / pick up a hobby / learn something completely new / do nothing at all), followed by easing into the new set of work things you "want to" worry about. That may or may not be ML or ML-adjacent, I've always believed that smart people find a way.
On the other hand, after you've dealt with your current state of mind, I'd love to have a chat with you because I see that we share some passions and I'm building something new in the AI space to help people build sane ML pipelines!
On the other hand, after you've dealt with your current state of mind, I'd love to have a chat with you because I see that we share some passions and I'm building something new in the AI space to help people build sane ML pipelines!
Find work that interest you, meets your financial needs, but is otherwise easy, so it frees up your time, then use that time to actually figure out what you want to do.
The things you are going to regret not doing are things that you have interest in, but otherwise have no motivation to do because work is taking up your time/energy (both mental and physical). You aren't going to regret working at more "boring" job if it gives you the ability to do those things.
The things you are going to regret not doing are things that you have interest in, but otherwise have no motivation to do because work is taking up your time/energy (both mental and physical). You aren't going to regret working at more "boring" job if it gives you the ability to do those things.
The sloppiness part is what really gets to me. I'm so fed up with it that I'll do whatever it takes to get away from the endless piles of messy code which I don't want to read any more.
> reorg
I came across an interesting legal concept a couple of jobs ago - "quit for cause". Among other things, changes in management structure can meet the requirements "for cause'.
If you've got the pull in negotiation, it might be worth looking into adding something a quit-b/c-reorg cushion.
(I don't expect it to help with many things here, but there's worth in setting things up so you don't need a situation to stay a certain way, because you're safe to exit)
I came across an interesting legal concept a couple of jobs ago - "quit for cause". Among other things, changes in management structure can meet the requirements "for cause'.
If you've got the pull in negotiation, it might be worth looking into adding something a quit-b/c-reorg cushion.
(I don't expect it to help with many things here, but there's worth in setting things up so you don't need a situation to stay a certain way, because you're safe to exit)
I don't share your experience that work politics have to be a fact of life, but I've worked at mostly smaller companies (non start ups). I think it's probably harder to form cliques at a smaller company where there's less people and everyone kind of knows each other. Maybe something to consider.
I switched from large to small and wish I had done it years ago.
I don’t know if I will ever retire, but I’d rather be poor and retire by voluntary means then have to work at big companies doing hateful work dealing with hateful politics in exchange for my only remaining time on earth.
I don’t know if I will ever retire, but I’d rather be poor and retire by voluntary means then have to work at big companies doing hateful work dealing with hateful politics in exchange for my only remaining time on earth.
I burnt out hard after almost 20 years programming, mostly web things, last decade in the full-stack JavaScript ecosystem. Last year I started building simple electronic stuff with the Raspberry Pi Pico board. It's not far off from programming and I had to learn C (Python feels too JS somehow), but being able to literally move things with electrons and code and talk directly to the metal awakened something in me.
I got YouTube Premium, unsubscribed from all the "funny stuff" and subscribed to makers, builders, creators, electronic, aviation, etc. channels only. I am AMAZED at what you can build right now in your own home. I am building an electromagnetic jet engine from scratch. It sounds crazy when you say it out loud but it's the 2023 equivalent of assembling model gliders from balsa wood decades ago.
Here are a few channels that inspired and helped me the most:
Fantastic explanation of how electricity/circuits/elements work:
https://www.youtube.com/@ELECTRONOOBS
https://www.youtube.com/@greatscottlab
These guys are into aviation and actually iterate on their projects:
https://www.youtube.com/@rctestflight
https://www.youtube.com/@TomStantonEngineering
These two are wizards of explaining physics and engineering:
https://www.youtube.com/@TheActionLab
https://www.youtube.com/@Nighthawkinlight
I can't even comprehend the level of engineering this guy does in his garage:
https://www.youtube.com/@StuffMadeHere
PS. If you're getting into electronics from programming it's really, I mean really easy, to do the programming bits which most makers struggle with (because they are pros in circuits and other things). A lot of the learning curve is stuff like "what is a compiler" or "how to install an IDE" which you got covered.
I got YouTube Premium, unsubscribed from all the "funny stuff" and subscribed to makers, builders, creators, electronic, aviation, etc. channels only. I am AMAZED at what you can build right now in your own home. I am building an electromagnetic jet engine from scratch. It sounds crazy when you say it out loud but it's the 2023 equivalent of assembling model gliders from balsa wood decades ago.
Here are a few channels that inspired and helped me the most:
Fantastic explanation of how electricity/circuits/elements work:
https://www.youtube.com/@ELECTRONOOBS
https://www.youtube.com/@greatscottlab
These guys are into aviation and actually iterate on their projects:
https://www.youtube.com/@rctestflight
https://www.youtube.com/@TomStantonEngineering
These two are wizards of explaining physics and engineering:
https://www.youtube.com/@TheActionLab
https://www.youtube.com/@Nighthawkinlight
I can't even comprehend the level of engineering this guy does in his garage:
https://www.youtube.com/@StuffMadeHere
PS. If you're getting into electronics from programming it's really, I mean really easy, to do the programming bits which most makers struggle with (because they are pros in circuits and other things). A lot of the learning curve is stuff like "what is a compiler" or "how to install an IDE" which you got covered.
You should also have a look at
https://www.youtube.com/@rctestflight
with lots of autonomous vehicles, solar driven power etc.
https://www.youtube.com/@rctestflight
with lots of autonomous vehicles, solar driven power etc.
Yes! I meant to link to rctestflight and not RCLifeOn. Amazing stuff. Especially the latest ground effect series.
Any special YouTube channel you got inspiration to do that particular project?
I like very much Andreas Spiess for making projects with microcontrollers and his tutorials:
https://youtube.com/@AndreasSpiess
He has also a second channel for HAM radio.
https://youtube.com/@AndreasSpiess
He has also a second channel for HAM radio.
I've added a list of my favorite channels to my comment.
Thanks for the list!
styropyro and photonicinduction are missing
> Part of me is tired of spending so much of my life in front of a computer.
Sports/activities are great. I don't know how old you are, or if you have kids or not, but if you have little responsibility, I would pick an activity and then move somewhere that the activity is easily accessible.
If it's surfing, then move to somewhere and live on the beach. If it's skiing/snowboarding, live on a mountain during the season. Hiking, move to near mountains with fairly good weather (or bad weather if that's your thing), etc.
It's the advice I give everyone that feels like they are burning out since it helped me, but obviously everyone is different.
Sports/activities are great. I don't know how old you are, or if you have kids or not, but if you have little responsibility, I would pick an activity and then move somewhere that the activity is easily accessible.
If it's surfing, then move to somewhere and live on the beach. If it's skiing/snowboarding, live on a mountain during the season. Hiking, move to near mountains with fairly good weather (or bad weather if that's your thing), etc.
It's the advice I give everyone that feels like they are burning out since it helped me, but obviously everyone is different.
It's quite likely that moving may not be necessary, in fact.
For what I understand, burnout happens a lot to people who are/were really passionate about their job or at least some part of it. Their passion became their job, and at some point they run out of meaning or satisfaction arising from it.
At this point, as you say, sports and hobbies help, but it's a bit hard, because the temptation is to get hobbies related, say, to coding or computing; or other intellectual hobbies that may be difficult when you come home tired at the end of the day.
Hikes, surfing, skiing, are very nice options, but so could be, say, playing soccer with friends once a week, building model trains, learning to paint, trying a new sport, going to the cinema more often, getting into baking, and many other things.
For what I understand, burnout happens a lot to people who are/were really passionate about their job or at least some part of it. Their passion became their job, and at some point they run out of meaning or satisfaction arising from it.
At this point, as you say, sports and hobbies help, but it's a bit hard, because the temptation is to get hobbies related, say, to coding or computing; or other intellectual hobbies that may be difficult when you come home tired at the end of the day.
Hikes, surfing, skiing, are very nice options, but so could be, say, playing soccer with friends once a week, building model trains, learning to paint, trying a new sport, going to the cinema more often, getting into baking, and many other things.
If you are able to, I'd recommend to take a sabbatical. I took 6 months off 9 years ago and I'm still super glad I did. Give your mind some rest and peace, disconnect and everything will follow. If that's not an option, why not join a smaller company where you can work fully remote and only 4 days a week? I have yet to meet somebody that went from 5 to 4 days/week and regretted it. There are so many profitable companies that pay good salaries (although not on a FAANG level), but don't come with the politics, give you the freedom to structure your day while still doing impactful work.
I'm on months 10 of my "sabbatical" (deliberate unemployment) and it neither recharged my professional ambitions nor did I manage to come up with any alternative ideas. Feels more like I lost the thread. Not all is bad, though. Learned a lot and matured but jobwise it didn't help much.
Hey, I had a stretch for almost 2 1/2 years where my work and field really no longer interested me.
I had really enjoyed it and then just felt like I had done it all.
It took a completely new market arriving with new technology and a new culture in the environment to finally snap me out of it.
The doldrums were f*cking awful. Eventually I realized I had to quit because I was so chronically unhappy and bored and underutilized.
my curiosity is the only thing that let me know when it was time. I simply couldn’t find anything better until I started fiddling around and fell deep into my side activities and finally had enough and quit.
If you are like me, you may literally have to leave behind an entire career in one market or skillset and plan on another ten year arc in some new growth market where all the fun is.
Financially this has been a heavy burden. I may or may not make it.
I had really enjoyed it and then just felt like I had done it all.
It took a completely new market arriving with new technology and a new culture in the environment to finally snap me out of it.
The doldrums were f*cking awful. Eventually I realized I had to quit because I was so chronically unhappy and bored and underutilized.
my curiosity is the only thing that let me know when it was time. I simply couldn’t find anything better until I started fiddling around and fell deep into my side activities and finally had enough and quit.
If you are like me, you may literally have to leave behind an entire career in one market or skillset and plan on another ten year arc in some new growth market where all the fun is.
Financially this has been a heavy burden. I may or may not make it.
> Financially this has been a heavy burden.
Financial burden is something I would take upon me. But financial burden at the moment of experiencing it feels more like an existential burden. After reaching the light at the end of the tunnel it becomes a mere financial problem.
> I may or may not make it.
What does that mean? That does sound rather existential. But then again I probably understand what you mean. It's a dire and stressful situation to be in.
Financial burden is something I would take upon me. But financial burden at the moment of experiencing it feels more like an existential burden. After reaching the light at the end of the tunnel it becomes a mere financial problem.
> I may or may not make it.
What does that mean? That does sound rather existential. But then again I probably understand what you mean. It's a dire and stressful situation to be in.
+1 to this. March for me will be one year and if I would have known the effects beforehand, I would have done so much sooner.
What I would like to add is have purposeful time off. Reconnect with friends and family. Do all the things that you have not been able to for the first couple of months. Read, exercise, laugh, cry, meditate, but most importantly LEARN. Make it a habit to get into the thought process of learning so you are intrigued again. Once you start to become curious again, you won't NEED to be motivated externally anymore, you will just be motivated internally.
Most importantly, if you can, go and talk with someone, either a mental health professional or a friend that will keep it 100%. Once I got full control over my emotions and how they were affecting me, it is as if I unlocked a superpower. Knowing how to cope and deal with the day to day stresses of life and not having to be feel bad or compare has been so you relieving you have no idea. I have gotten better sleep and am way happier than ever before. If you are not dating, I highly encourage dating just to date. Go in with no expectations, and be fully transparent about your intentions. Having someone to spend time with through part of your journey can also be beneficial. Obviously everyone's mileage will vary, I wish you well. Also, take some time away from electronic devices and try and do things with a purpose and do other things without it. Go and read to just read, go for a walk, just to walk. The entire process/purpose of a sabbatical is to recharge your batteries, reevaluate, assess , relax and plan for the future.
Best of luck!!
What I would like to add is have purposeful time off. Reconnect with friends and family. Do all the things that you have not been able to for the first couple of months. Read, exercise, laugh, cry, meditate, but most importantly LEARN. Make it a habit to get into the thought process of learning so you are intrigued again. Once you start to become curious again, you won't NEED to be motivated externally anymore, you will just be motivated internally.
Most importantly, if you can, go and talk with someone, either a mental health professional or a friend that will keep it 100%. Once I got full control over my emotions and how they were affecting me, it is as if I unlocked a superpower. Knowing how to cope and deal with the day to day stresses of life and not having to be feel bad or compare has been so you relieving you have no idea. I have gotten better sleep and am way happier than ever before. If you are not dating, I highly encourage dating just to date. Go in with no expectations, and be fully transparent about your intentions. Having someone to spend time with through part of your journey can also be beneficial. Obviously everyone's mileage will vary, I wish you well. Also, take some time away from electronic devices and try and do things with a purpose and do other things without it. Go and read to just read, go for a walk, just to walk. The entire process/purpose of a sabbatical is to recharge your batteries, reevaluate, assess , relax and plan for the future.
Best of luck!!
I'll add my voice to the Sabbatical Chorus.
I am on month 7 of my sabbatical and it has completely changed my life for the better
I am on month 7 of my sabbatical and it has completely changed my life for the better
Could you please share more about your experience? What did you do these 7 months and in what way it changed your life? I'm pretty curious as I am dreaming about taking one someday in future :)
Thanks for asking.
Spending as much time with my (3) kids as possible before they leave home for good. I took a week of silence in the mountains last summer. Had multiple existential crises which led to a total transformation of my person.
The primary thing I'm doing though is pouring myself into creating as many mutual cooperative communities - that are not intermediated by money/commerce - as possible.
I wrote a treatise on Scarcity: https://kemendo.com/Myth.pdf
I'm starting a municipal waste cooperative: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34226557
I am working with my alma mater - USAF Academy - on a new class to teach cadets basic infrastructure (wastewater, electrical grid etc...)
I teach spin on Sundays at Lifetime fitness
I also manage a support group for about 15 CEOs and organize a dinner every quarter or so
I've done a few small contracts but otherwise living on savings
Spending as much time with my (3) kids as possible before they leave home for good. I took a week of silence in the mountains last summer. Had multiple existential crises which led to a total transformation of my person.
The primary thing I'm doing though is pouring myself into creating as many mutual cooperative communities - that are not intermediated by money/commerce - as possible.
I wrote a treatise on Scarcity: https://kemendo.com/Myth.pdf
I'm starting a municipal waste cooperative: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34226557
I am working with my alma mater - USAF Academy - on a new class to teach cadets basic infrastructure (wastewater, electrical grid etc...)
I teach spin on Sundays at Lifetime fitness
I also manage a support group for about 15 CEOs and organize a dinner every quarter or so
I've done a few small contracts but otherwise living on savings
> and only 4 days a week
Is that very common?
Is that very common?
It's a mix.
I know a non-tech company in my area that did that thinking everybody would love it. All the employees just wanted to make more money and be open Friday's too, so if they weren't open the staff just found somewhere else to work on Friday.
100% sounds good but largely seems to depend on your own financial situation.
I know a non-tech company in my area that did that thinking everybody would love it. All the employees just wanted to make more money and be open Friday's too, so if they weren't open the staff just found somewhere else to work on Friday.
100% sounds good but largely seems to depend on your own financial situation.
When it comes to burnout, the general advice I received is take minimum 1 year off work.
I left my job a few months ago as the burnout got so bad I wasn’t able to conjure up the motivation to tackle the simplest of tasks.
First couple months I didn’t feel any better and I was getting worried. But I’m _just_ starting to feel better now. I’m finding myself more positive and less stressed.
So what am I doing? I’m living out of my car travelling around NZ, doing a crazy amount of hiking, and a tiny amount of freelancing.
I left my job a few months ago as the burnout got so bad I wasn’t able to conjure up the motivation to tackle the simplest of tasks.
First couple months I didn’t feel any better and I was getting worried. But I’m _just_ starting to feel better now. I’m finding myself more positive and less stressed.
So what am I doing? I’m living out of my car travelling around NZ, doing a crazy amount of hiking, and a tiny amount of freelancing.
Yeah I'm sure everyone can be unemployed for a year straight and live out of their car.
That sounds completely reasonable and not absolutely, in any way, privileged or insane.
That sounds completely reasonable and not absolutely, in any way, privileged or insane.
The fact that the right solution is not accessible to everyone does not make it less right. If a specific cure for cancer costs say $20k per month, not everyone can buy it - but it doesn't not make it inefficient cure for cancer.
To be pedantic, your parent didn't say anything about right or wrong. It is irrelevant the correctness of a solution if you cannot implement it. Taking one year off is not a solution (even tough it is a right solution) for a lot people.
The same for the cancer's cure. It is not a solution for a lot people.
The same for the cancer's cure. It is not a solution for a lot people.
I’m not privileged just because I don’t have the same responsibilities as other people. I made choices and those choices allow me to live an extremely cheap lifestyle. The fact other people have mortgages and/or families doesn’t make _me_ privileged; it’s a different situation.
The parent claimed living out of a car is “insane” and “privileged”. Focus on that and let it sink in for a moment.
The parent claimed living out of a car is “insane” and “privileged”. Focus on that and let it sink in for a moment.
You got flagged, but yea that’s crazy. I don’t make faang money but make like 60% and I still could only safely take off 8 months after having saved up for years.
Being able to take off a year to recover from burnout, without dealing with the stress of having no income for a year, means you are probably post money if not close.
If that’s the case and the OP has interests like they listed, just start a company doing something you like. You won’t get validation from building someone else’s product.
Being able to take off a year to recover from burnout, without dealing with the stress of having no income for a year, means you are probably post money if not close.
If that’s the case and the OP has interests like they listed, just start a company doing something you like. You won’t get validation from building someone else’s product.
My car cost under $3k and my only expenses are food and car related stuff. DOC campsite pass for $195 for an entire year. It is insanely cheap to live out of a car. Not really sure why people are losing their mind over this.
There’s a presumption in this conversation that taking time off work from burnout isn’t going to be solved by becoming homeless. If you were going to go that route then you could just claim it would only be a few hundred in supplies for you to live in the woods off foraged game and plants.
On top of that it’s illegal to live out of your car in many jurisdictions in the US.
On top of that it’s illegal to live out of your car in many jurisdictions in the US.
No, the comment you responded to and agreed with was referring to my “privileged” position of being able quit my job and live out of my car.
Whether or not it would solve burnout and whether it’s legal in the US are different and new arguments.
I’m justifying my original position that living within meager means isn’t “insane” or “privileged”. If you are only able to take off 8 months after saving for years, that has nothing to do with my ability to live frugally. I don’t gain privilege just because other people choose to take on excessive amounts of debt and/or live more expensive lifestyles than me.
Whether or not it would solve burnout and whether it’s legal in the US are different and new arguments.
I’m justifying my original position that living within meager means isn’t “insane” or “privileged”. If you are only able to take off 8 months after saving for years, that has nothing to do with my ability to live frugally. I don’t gain privilege just because other people choose to take on excessive amounts of debt and/or live more expensive lifestyles than me.
I think the notion of "privilege" and the habit of accusing people of being "privileged" are so off that if someone "uses the word against you", you might as well give up since the chances for a reasonable discussion are very low. This whole comment tree is quite typical for how it usually plays out.
(Obviously the great-grandparent comment that first used "privilege" is completely off, as are most statements involving the word in the wild)
(Obviously the great-grandparent comment that first used "privilege" is completely off, as are most statements involving the word in the wild)
You can get 1/2 a year just from short term disability from burnout at FAANG
A few years at a FAANG is pretty much post money unless you burned it all
What's the problem if it's "privileged"? and it's not that insane. Lots of people take one year sabbatical, including students. In my country (France), it's even negotiable with your employer (it's a right if you worked in the company for more than 3 years I believe).
Yeah, Europe is different here, as we have social security from the state. In Germany you get continued pay by your health insurance (a certain percentage of your usual salary). It's far easier to do things like this when the state helps you with this.
Well, if you keep your expenses untouched than it is very hard to do it. However, if you sell some stuff, use hostels, eat on local markets, etc. you can go a long way. You can even stay for free in hostels if you're up to working a few days a week on cleaning, reception, etc. Small, less turistic towns also make a big difference on how expensive this kind of traveling needs to be. Also context matters a lot, this is probably not the best approach if you have a family to support.
If you're open to a, maybe severe, change in lifestyle, you'll see that you don't need much to live. To those that are interested, I recommend reading "Vagabonding" by Rolf Potts and watching "Minimalism" documentary by The Minimalists as a start point.
If you're open to a, maybe severe, change in lifestyle, you'll see that you don't need much to live. To those that are interested, I recommend reading "Vagabonding" by Rolf Potts and watching "Minimalism" documentary by The Minimalists as a start point.
It is unfathomable to me that you believe living out of a car is privileged. I sleep on a camping mat that’s hard as a rock. I pissed in a bottle last night. My car cost under $3k and campsites are virtually free using DOC pass.
Which part exactly of this is privileged?
Which part exactly of this is privileged?
LOL
Not sure if sophisticated troll but either way it’s hilarious.
Owning things really sucks. I would love to live in a camper van. That would be awesome.
Not sure if sophisticated troll but either way it’s hilarious.
Owning things really sucks. I would love to live in a camper van. That would be awesome.
Sadly I couldn’t afford a campervan, but my car isn’t too bad, just slightly uncomfortable sometimes.
I’ve been daydreaming about this for years and now that I’m doing it, it is actually as good as I hoped. The cold showers, few possessions, no idea where I’m sleeping tonight, it’s all way better than killing myself to make someone else rich. I feel like I lost the past 5 years of my life. Now my life feels like it’s mine again. I’m in control. And if that means I have to pinch pennies, I’m happy to oblige. It’s a price worth paying.
I hope you get to follow your dreams one day too.
I’ve been daydreaming about this for years and now that I’m doing it, it is actually as good as I hoped. The cold showers, few possessions, no idea where I’m sleeping tonight, it’s all way better than killing myself to make someone else rich. I feel like I lost the past 5 years of my life. Now my life feels like it’s mine again. I’m in control. And if that means I have to pinch pennies, I’m happy to oblige. It’s a price worth paying.
I hope you get to follow your dreams one day too.
There's a half-way house for this. For someone that doesn't have a family, its possible to e:g work on a ski resort for the winter making minimum wage plus possibly tips depending on the job, live simply, basically drain your savings but slower than you otherwise would. Then go travelling in the summer with a bit of camping, sleeping in car etc. I've done that, had some savings but hadn't earned silly money, and didn't drain the savings too badly. Was single at the time. Would've been cheaper to do that as a couple with both working and some shared resources. I think someone that had, say $10k saved, might be able to do this. Thats enough for expensive car repair or other unforeseen cost. (OK , healthcare can be in issue in the US, in which case might need more. Also student loans. So YMMV). Reason for this post? Just to show people that don't think they can, that maybe they can actually have a period of freedom and adventure and reflection. Lots of people here on HN seem burned out and not very happy. There's an escape route of sorts , you needn't be very rich to do it, working in tech at all probably gives you an opportunity to save. I'm super glad I did it, looking back now as a parent with far less freedom and energy and commitments to just take off and explore. EDIT - an old Japanese car that is fuel efficient but you can sleep in counts for a lot here. As does having some skills in cheap nutrition - though rice, pasta, beans, porridge (oatmeal), fresh fruit & veg, eggs, tinned fish pretty much does the job.
If you’re working as a software engineer, you are already privileged, yes. It’s trivially easy, when making an average software engineer salary to save a significant portion of your income. If you save 50%, you need to work 1 year to save enough for a year off.
A lot of us aren’t making average HN level salaries and many have a lot of responsibilities. Saving 50% simply isn’t feasible for most people, even in this industry.
It is not “trivially easy” to take a year off. It’s reckless.
It is not “trivially easy” to take a year off. It’s reckless.
Everyone's situation is unique. For many, it may not be easy at all—you're right. But in the "average" case of the average software engineer in the US, if you value the option to take a year off, it is absolutely trivial to save half your income.
Let's just do some back-of-napkin math to prove my point. The average American software engineer makes $110,944 / year [1]. The median salary in the US is $54,132 / year [2]. That's less than half an average software engineer. In other words, most Americans—even if they spend every penny they earn—live on less than half of what an average software engineer makes.
So yes. On average, a software engineer should be able to save half their income and take off a year. Or hell, save 33% of their income, and take a year off after working two!
[1] https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries
[2] https://www.firstrepublic.com/insights-education/how-much-do...
Let's just do some back-of-napkin math to prove my point. The average American software engineer makes $110,944 / year [1]. The median salary in the US is $54,132 / year [2]. That's less than half an average software engineer. In other words, most Americans—even if they spend every penny they earn—live on less than half of what an average software engineer makes.
So yes. On average, a software engineer should be able to save half their income and take off a year. Or hell, save 33% of their income, and take a year off after working two!
[1] https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries
[2] https://www.firstrepublic.com/insights-education/how-much-do...
So I think the issue is that people with more money are taking on more responsibilities (more expensive house / car etc). This makes it harder for them to take sabbaticals.
The mistake is when those same people then claim that someone making the same money without the same responsibilities is privileged.
It is a very odd position to hold. I’m not privileged just because someone else decided to take on the maximum amount of debt that was available to them.
The mistake is when those same people then claim that someone making the same money without the same responsibilities is privileged.
It is a very odd position to hold. I’m not privileged just because someone else decided to take on the maximum amount of debt that was available to them.
Conversely, I am not privileged just because I don’t have the same responsibilities as you.
If you can’t take a year off work because you have a mortgage, debts, and a family to feed, that’s a problem you need to solve. However, assuming that I’m privileged because I don’t have those things in nonsensical. I live out of a very cheap car and my expenses are virtually zero. That is not a privileged position.
If you can’t take a year off work because you have a mortgage, debts, and a family to feed, that’s a problem you need to solve. However, assuming that I’m privileged because I don’t have those things in nonsensical. I live out of a very cheap car and my expenses are virtually zero. That is not a privileged position.
> That is not a privileged position.
That depends on if it’s caused by poverty, or a choice you made despite having the means for a better situation.
Being able to take a year off work and not end up homeless is incredibly privileged, but by your own admission you’re already homeless, possibly by choice. Most people don’t want to live in a car.
That depends on if it’s caused by poverty, or a choice you made despite having the means for a better situation.
Being able to take a year off work and not end up homeless is incredibly privileged, but by your own admission you’re already homeless, possibly by choice. Most people don’t want to live in a car.
> That depends on if it’s caused by poverty, or a choice you made despite having the means for a better situation.
There is a certain cost to living out of a car which is the same for everyone living out of a car. It is very cheap and attainable for almost everyone. This, by definition, makes it _not_ a privilege.
> you’re already homeless, possibly by choice. Most people don’t want to live in a car.
Absolutely, I’m homeless by choice, and you’re right it’s not for everyone. However, whether other people want to live in a car or not is irrelevant; if it’s attainable to almost anyone it’s not a privilege.
There is a certain cost to living out of a car which is the same for everyone living out of a car. It is very cheap and attainable for almost everyone. This, by definition, makes it _not_ a privilege.
> you’re already homeless, possibly by choice. Most people don’t want to live in a car.
Absolutely, I’m homeless by choice, and you’re right it’s not for everyone. However, whether other people want to live in a car or not is irrelevant; if it’s attainable to almost anyone it’s not a privilege.
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If OP worked in big tech, he got paid really well. So he should have significant savings that will allow him to take a sabbatical year as needed.
> Part of me is tired of spending so much of my life in front of a computer.
I left my job 2022 February to not sit in meetings and mostly be a preventer of bad engineering rather than a builder of good stuff. On a good day, I told people how they were wrong - on a bad day, I told them how they were wrong, again.
If you have the option of taking a sabbatical, I would recommend taking one out of your own choice rather than being an unemployment statistic due to your own lack of motivation.
I quit rather than a sabbatical, because I could hand-pick my successors for the roles I occupied and it was better to kick about 3 people into core roles & get them promoted for it, than have them do the work only for me to show up 8 weeks later to hand it all back in for no benefit to their careers.
Took me 3 months before I didn't feel the need to "accomplish something today" to feel good about my day and mostly I went through my Netflix list, read through a ton of books that I've always meant to read and went for walks to the coffee shop instead of driving.
This isn't the first break of my life and it's technically possible to double your summer break in a year, because we've got options for winter.
The biggest thing that has always helped me in these situations is to head to the other side of the planet, because being in a cold place with short days feels bad when you wake up and there's nothing to do immediately on your mind.
I just got back from a trip to Patagonia and the only reason I haven't headed back to New Zealand again, is because I'm now interviewing again for jobs (also kids, kids need to be in school).
If you are talented, with a significant experience going back years, the fact that you took a break from your career to do something else for a bit isn't going to matter to a single employer. Oddly enough, I also spent enough time away to be out of the no-competes for a few work related systems, so my open areas expanded because of a break.
If you're tired of work, don't find another job - you probably need to remember who you are outside of work, before you can go back in to do something else.
I left my job 2022 February to not sit in meetings and mostly be a preventer of bad engineering rather than a builder of good stuff. On a good day, I told people how they were wrong - on a bad day, I told them how they were wrong, again.
If you have the option of taking a sabbatical, I would recommend taking one out of your own choice rather than being an unemployment statistic due to your own lack of motivation.
I quit rather than a sabbatical, because I could hand-pick my successors for the roles I occupied and it was better to kick about 3 people into core roles & get them promoted for it, than have them do the work only for me to show up 8 weeks later to hand it all back in for no benefit to their careers.
Took me 3 months before I didn't feel the need to "accomplish something today" to feel good about my day and mostly I went through my Netflix list, read through a ton of books that I've always meant to read and went for walks to the coffee shop instead of driving.
This isn't the first break of my life and it's technically possible to double your summer break in a year, because we've got options for winter.
The biggest thing that has always helped me in these situations is to head to the other side of the planet, because being in a cold place with short days feels bad when you wake up and there's nothing to do immediately on your mind.
I just got back from a trip to Patagonia and the only reason I haven't headed back to New Zealand again, is because I'm now interviewing again for jobs (also kids, kids need to be in school).
If you are talented, with a significant experience going back years, the fact that you took a break from your career to do something else for a bit isn't going to matter to a single employer. Oddly enough, I also spent enough time away to be out of the no-competes for a few work related systems, so my open areas expanded because of a break.
If you're tired of work, don't find another job - you probably need to remember who you are outside of work, before you can go back in to do something else.
> I left my job 2022 February to not sit in meetings and mostly be a preventer of bad engineering rather than a builder of good stuff. On a good day, I told people how they were wrong - on a bad day, I told them how they were wrong, again.
You sound like a great guy to work with with all this modesty and open mindedness.
You sound like a great guy to work with with all this modesty and open mindedness.
You don't know what their job was, or what kind of engineering decisions they were having to work around. You don't know what kind of corporate hieracrchy they were stuck in, or what effect it had on what they were building. Without knowing any of those things it is a bit premature to be making character judgements.
If your job is to tell people they're wrong every day, you're working with the wrong attitude.
Your job isn't to say no, it's to say: "This doesn't work, but how about this?".
Engineering isn't about being a prick that shoots down ideas and be the "smartest person in the room", it's to make those ideas become reality as closely as possible while working within the constraints of what's feasible.
Your job isn't to say no, it's to say: "This doesn't work, but how about this?".
Engineering isn't about being a prick that shoots down ideas and be the "smartest person in the room", it's to make those ideas become reality as closely as possible while working within the constraints of what's feasible.
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions, and it's unclear how much direct experience you have of being in a bad situation where the day-to-day job does become saying no.
Some examples that you may be unfamiliar with:
* Working with a manager who is a former dev that likes to micromanage the decisions that their team makes.
* Working on a team that is driven / owned by a product owner who doesn't understand as much engineering as they think that they do.
Neither of these situations are examples of healthy functioning organisations, but they do occur. They are not an exclusive list either, just some random examples from personal experience.
Shooting down ideas may be a symptom of somebody being a prick, or it may indicate that they know why the idea will break the system (even if it closes a ticket or gets a particular feature finished). The ability to propose an alternative can be restricted by just how batshit insane the demand is.
It's not that you are wrong when you say that an engineer should respond "This doesn't work, but how about this?". But that characterization is incomplete - sure it works in theory, but there are many places where it does not work in practice.
Some examples that you may be unfamiliar with:
* Working with a manager who is a former dev that likes to micromanage the decisions that their team makes.
* Working on a team that is driven / owned by a product owner who doesn't understand as much engineering as they think that they do.
Neither of these situations are examples of healthy functioning organisations, but they do occur. They are not an exclusive list either, just some random examples from personal experience.
Shooting down ideas may be a symptom of somebody being a prick, or it may indicate that they know why the idea will break the system (even if it closes a ticket or gets a particular feature finished). The ability to propose an alternative can be restricted by just how batshit insane the demand is.
It's not that you are wrong when you say that an engineer should respond "This doesn't work, but how about this?". But that characterization is incomplete - sure it works in theory, but there are many places where it does not work in practice.
In 2018, I took a year-long sabbatical from a FAANG company (FYI, I was principal level and it required VP approval). I had previously taken a few 1-3 month breaks between positions prior to the sabbatical. Although am I grateful for the extended breaks, they are far from a panacea and downright stressful if you set your expectations too high :).
Feel free to reach out if you want to discuss further.
Feel free to reach out if you want to discuss further.
I felt less and less excited about tech/programming over the years. Not sure if I would call it burnout, but just a sense of boredom and that I didn't learn new and exciting stuff anymore.
7 years ago I decided to just leave it all, reset my life, and try something new. After trying some different things I found a new passion for photography. Which in turn lead me to start a youtube channel about photography. Which is now my full time job. Never been happier in my life!
If anyone is curious about my story, I have a 20 minute video about the transition from tech entrepreneur to photography youtuber here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfHvh87gm7M
7 years ago I decided to just leave it all, reset my life, and try something new. After trying some different things I found a new passion for photography. Which in turn lead me to start a youtube channel about photography. Which is now my full time job. Never been happier in my life!
If anyone is curious about my story, I have a 20 minute video about the transition from tech entrepreneur to photography youtuber here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfHvh87gm7M
It became completely thankless to be a programmer. I don’t know if it was something about having the right balance of being in high demand plus the fun tools and culture and platforms like iOS being achievable for small devs.
Now it has become fcking drudgery; I can’t understand why anyone would want to become a developer now. You don’t get any creative freedom and just get assigned tickets and treated like a robot by 75 layers of middle management.
Programming as a creative act is wonderful. Programming as a career puts you always at the bottom of the pile, whether you like it or not.
“Oh you shudders* code?”
Being a developer is a low status occupation despite being high paid.
Now it has become fcking drudgery; I can’t understand why anyone would want to become a developer now. You don’t get any creative freedom and just get assigned tickets and treated like a robot by 75 layers of middle management.
Programming as a creative act is wonderful. Programming as a career puts you always at the bottom of the pile, whether you like it or not.
“Oh you shudders* code?”
Being a developer is a low status occupation despite being high paid.
Better a small boss than a big servant, right? (Chinese proverb I believe)
No need to hesitate - you've worked 10 years in FAANG, you'll get 10 jobs offers per month if needed. So, just do it.
But remember, freedom is responsibility.
So, have fun while doing 3 or 4 projects of your list. Switch between them to keep it light and fun. If you get depressed or if you start to just consuming full-time (gaming, Netflix, sleeping, party/drugs etc) for a prolonged period (>month) you don't have the "rigor" and you should get back to a job where people tell you what to do.
In essence, be your own best parent/teacher.
Good luck.
Related
No need to hesitate - you've worked 10 years in FAANG, you'll get 10 jobs offers per month if needed. So, just do it.
But remember, freedom is responsibility.
So, have fun while doing 3 or 4 projects of your list. Switch between them to keep it light and fun. If you get depressed or if you start to just consuming full-time (gaming, Netflix, sleeping, party/drugs etc) for a prolonged period (>month) you don't have the "rigor" and you should get back to a job where people tell you what to do.
In essence, be your own best parent/teacher.
Good luck.
Related
> No need to hesitate - you've worked 10 years in FAANG, you'll get 10 jobs offers per month if needed. So, just do it.
Are you certain this is sound advice at the current time? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34725047
Are you certain this is sound advice at the current time? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34725047
Go to work for a Fortune 100 company. In my experience, the salary isn’t as good, the food and massages aren’t free, but the work life balance is much better. I never feel stress. I enjoy the work. I like my coworkers. I’m the complete opposite of burned out.
You may have a similar experience in a FAANG that is more chilled.
My friends at Amazon are killing themselves.
The ones at Google, well... I'm impressed by how little they can do.
I guess it's also heavily management dependant. If some middle manager doesn't give a crap and somehow can get away with it those below can slack as much.
My friends at Amazon are killing themselves.
The ones at Google, well... I'm impressed by how little they can do.
I guess it's also heavily management dependant. If some middle manager doesn't give a crap and somehow can get away with it those below can slack as much.
if the cause of burnout is from overwork, then instead of moving, i'd consider part-time (say, 3-4 day work week).
If the cause of burnout is disillusionment - aka, you are such a small cog and your work doesn't seem to matter, despite how hard you actually worked - then moving to a different, but still big company, will not change that. Startups, imho, is where to move to, in order to feel impacts.
If the cause of burnout is project-based - aka, you just don't enjoy or feel the project is worthwhile - switching companies might work (a different project).
There's many other causes of burnout, and each will require individual solutions - there's no one size fits all.
If the cause of burnout is disillusionment - aka, you are such a small cog and your work doesn't seem to matter, despite how hard you actually worked - then moving to a different, but still big company, will not change that. Startups, imho, is where to move to, in order to feel impacts.
If the cause of burnout is project-based - aka, you just don't enjoy or feel the project is worthwhile - switching companies might work (a different project).
There's many other causes of burnout, and each will require individual solutions - there's no one size fits all.
From experience, 4 day week doesn’t really help. You end up doing just as much work as people on 5 days but getting paid less, getting overlooked because you’re less present, and consequently feeling resentful AND overworked. A 4 day week is great for other reasons though.
> You end up doing just as much work as people on 5 days
either you're doing too much work, or everybody else is doing too little. Cut back.
As for promotions, if you intend to do 4 days, prepare to face zero career progression in the same company - unless you're extraordinary and indispensable. But this is the price you pay for a 4 day at this point.
either you're doing too much work, or everybody else is doing too little. Cut back.
As for promotions, if you intend to do 4 days, prepare to face zero career progression in the same company - unless you're extraordinary and indispensable. But this is the price you pay for a 4 day at this point.
Not a bad play. The companies that are below the top 15 are all starving for talent and have way lower stress and often far better work life balance and not terrible pay.
The top companies are political nightmares because the pressure and competition levels make them insane.
The top companies are political nightmares because the pressure and competition levels make them insane.
You might want to look at computational biology. Jim Allison won the Nobel Prize back in 2018 for his work on immunotherapy for cancer and there's a lot of basic research work to be done to perfect this approach. Epigenetic clocks are really interesting too (see Steve Horvath's work). Also, there's synthetic biology, where you could, for example, explore this package that's written in Go: https://github.com/TimothyStiles/poly
If you've spent 10+ years at big companies, you should have ample savings to have at least a couple of years to yourself to try and build your own great idea.
Sitting in front of a computer sucks less when you're working for yourself rather than making money for others.
Sitting in front of a computer sucks less when you're working for yourself rather than making money for others.
I did something similar and stopped working for over a year. I just took on some basic contracting and just let my curiosity drive me. The whole idea was to just not plan and let things happen naturally because I was tired of trying to minmax everything I did. I tried many things, shared it with people, and then ended up finding my passion as well as a new job in an area that I haven't considered before.
As a reminder, what you are passionate about and what you do for work does not have to be the same. I would say it's best to keep it separate. Keeping it separate helped ground myself and care less about my career. At the end of the day, I can't say the last 10 years of my career was something I am proud of sharing with my friends and family. No one cares that you built a dashboard that saved the organization a million dollars; I certainly don't. People care about your passions and what drives you, and I care about working on something that I can be proud of.
My suggestion would be to just pick anything you are interested in and just go with the flow. When you get to a point where you are no longer interested, next.
Let yourself be and you'll see.
As a reminder, what you are passionate about and what you do for work does not have to be the same. I would say it's best to keep it separate. Keeping it separate helped ground myself and care less about my career. At the end of the day, I can't say the last 10 years of my career was something I am proud of sharing with my friends and family. No one cares that you built a dashboard that saved the organization a million dollars; I certainly don't. People care about your passions and what drives you, and I care about working on something that I can be proud of.
My suggestion would be to just pick anything you are interested in and just go with the flow. When you get to a point where you are no longer interested, next.
Let yourself be and you'll see.
I couldn't suggest what you should do next with your life because of course that's different to everyone.
But seeing that your experience is mostly on FAANGs and big companies, have you thought of going with a smaller early-stage company? These are environments where people usually expose them selves to a broader spectrum of things, even having the ability to choose specifically what they want to work on.
Workplace politics unfortunately are everywhere, small or big companies. You can't really avoid those.
I also can't stress enough other replies here about really exploring your self outside of work. What do you like spending your time on outside of working hours? Any hobbies that take your mind off? If there aren't any, can you start exploring new activities (without necessary having to take a sabbatical or move to another place?)
But seeing that your experience is mostly on FAANGs and big companies, have you thought of going with a smaller early-stage company? These are environments where people usually expose them selves to a broader spectrum of things, even having the ability to choose specifically what they want to work on.
Workplace politics unfortunately are everywhere, small or big companies. You can't really avoid those.
I also can't stress enough other replies here about really exploring your self outside of work. What do you like spending your time on outside of working hours? Any hobbies that take your mind off? If there aren't any, can you start exploring new activities (without necessary having to take a sabbatical or move to another place?)
If Ableton is an escape valve for you maybe don't make that your work right now. Keep the pieces of your life that are 'working' 'working' don't go changing them yet.
You list complex systems research. What about looking for marine research adjacent jobs? They are trying to understand complex interconnected systems and need help integrating so many different projects across many universities. Not sure if MBARI or UCSC have something interesting where you could go on a boat out to sea but back in the late 90s there some really cool jobs relating to that that would have recharged me. Improve the world's knowledge, on a boat out at sea, and maybe a little scuba. Heck yeah!
You list complex systems research. What about looking for marine research adjacent jobs? They are trying to understand complex interconnected systems and need help integrating so many different projects across many universities. Not sure if MBARI or UCSC have something interesting where you could go on a boat out to sea but back in the late 90s there some really cool jobs relating to that that would have recharged me. Improve the world's knowledge, on a boat out at sea, and maybe a little scuba. Heck yeah!
Maybe you would enjoy reading about why I quit tech to become a therapist: http://glench.com/WhyIQuitTechAndBecameATherapist/
As a random suggestion for a project to pursue, over the past few years I've thought that there needs to be some way to cryptographically sign media that was recorded by a camera - basically a way to say "Yes, this is a real thing that happened, and you can prove it with this signature." Especially given the leaps in audio, video, deepfakes, etc, we're all going to need a means for verifying that something is real.
I'll grant that something like this is not a panacea - we need good solid media literacy. But I think a technical solution will help us out.
I'll grant that something like this is not a panacea - we need good solid media literacy. But I think a technical solution will help us out.
Something like thats exists already! The organisation behind it is called C2PA :) https://c2pa.org/
I’ve worked on this specific problem you are describing but for other reasons.
The issue will be once someone breaks the secure enclave in the CCD, all of the video they produce will now be trustworthy. CCDs are pretty lightweight in general as most of the heavy lifting is meant to be offloaded to the ISP—so the on-die processing for the CCD is generally very lightweight and wouldn’t have buffers large enough to sign each frame. Also there is no standardized way of creating a secured MIPI connection. You can do some clever things to mitigate for this, but it is far from what I’ll call “best practice” and more along the lines of a bespoke solution.
The issue will be once someone breaks the secure enclave in the CCD, all of the video they produce will now be trustworthy. CCDs are pretty lightweight in general as most of the heavy lifting is meant to be offloaded to the ISP—so the on-die processing for the CCD is generally very lightweight and wouldn’t have buffers large enough to sign each frame. Also there is no standardized way of creating a secured MIPI connection. You can do some clever things to mitigate for this, but it is far from what I’ll call “best practice” and more along the lines of a bespoke solution.
Sounds interesting! It would probably require a hardware solution though - a private key and encryption chip tightly coupled with the rest of the camera hardware, so that it cannot be reached from the outside (to extract the private key).
Security by obscurity... But maybe good enough for this use-case.
Such cameras already exist.
What helped me was surround myself with people I like - I mean, work wise. That’s much easier said than done.
Michael and Dalton touch on this on a recent video where they compare modern FAANG with Goldman Sachs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia7IKW0yuG0
The founder culture is so full of kool-aid that it can be tough to find those people there, too, but I found overall that that was the best place for me. Interestingly, I found the older and more successful people to be much more sane, and super happy to meet smart sane young people. I have a lot of older friends now; many are founders of large companies who are just glad to have normal conversations - the kind of people that as a FAANG middle manager would be status contacts to brag about but now are just nice folks to grab a pint with.
The good people in tech still exist, and they’re often at key positions. But at Goldman Sachs I mean FAANG you’ll have a tough time fighting through middle management. And BOY was that FAANG culture bad for my mental health…
I hope this makes some sense. Watch the video, I think it will cheer you up big time:).
Michael and Dalton touch on this on a recent video where they compare modern FAANG with Goldman Sachs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia7IKW0yuG0
The founder culture is so full of kool-aid that it can be tough to find those people there, too, but I found overall that that was the best place for me. Interestingly, I found the older and more successful people to be much more sane, and super happy to meet smart sane young people. I have a lot of older friends now; many are founders of large companies who are just glad to have normal conversations - the kind of people that as a FAANG middle manager would be status contacts to brag about but now are just nice folks to grab a pint with.
The good people in tech still exist, and they’re often at key positions. But at Goldman Sachs I mean FAANG you’ll have a tough time fighting through middle management. And BOY was that FAANG culture bad for my mental health…
I hope this makes some sense. Watch the video, I think it will cheer you up big time:).
Hah that is a great video. I graduated in '05 and it was very similar. Everyone was asking why I was doing a CS degree - no future in tech, everything is being out sourced, etc. But I did it because I loved computers and coding! That kind of person seems very rare nowadays. I rarely work with people who had a similar passion - coding when they were a teenager for fun, for example.
Only thing I'd say about that video is they don't mention privilege. Joining an early stage startup in the US was only really possible if you were coming from a place of privilege imo, even when it was "uncool". At least that's what stopped me - I had 80k in student loans to pay off with a 10% interest rate, so I couldn't really take risks at that point in my life.
Only thing I'd say about that video is they don't mention privilege. Joining an early stage startup in the US was only really possible if you were coming from a place of privilege imo, even when it was "uncool". At least that's what stopped me - I had 80k in student loans to pay off with a 10% interest rate, so I couldn't really take risks at that point in my life.
If I were in your position, I’d evaluate my relationship with “work”. Challenges you describe might be perennial wherever you go, so maybe the question is not “how can I be more fulfilled at work?” But rather “how can I maximise the fulfilment I get outside of work?”
You sound like you’re going to have to trade your labour for money (ie you don’t have enough to become independent yet) so if you accept that fact, perhaps you can find a non stressful job and discover meaning in the Real parts of your life. Good luck
You sound like you’re going to have to trade your labour for money (ie you don’t have enough to become independent yet) so if you accept that fact, perhaps you can find a non stressful job and discover meaning in the Real parts of your life. Good luck
If I had $1m lying around now I would drop everything and focus on longevity/medical research. Who cares about making improvements to gadgets if we're all going to die in a few decades.
The faster this tech bubble bursts and people stop flocking to engineering the better.
The faster this tech bubble bursts and people stop flocking to engineering the better.
> I would drop everything and focus on longevity/medical research
if you are not someone who is already trained at this field, it's inefficient to start on your own. You'd be giving up your expertise and productivity in tech, in return for mediocre output in the research.
Much better option is to keep working in tech, earn as much money as is feasible, and then funnel the excess funds into companies that _do_ longetivity research.
if you are not someone who is already trained at this field, it's inefficient to start on your own. You'd be giving up your expertise and productivity in tech, in return for mediocre output in the research.
Much better option is to keep working in tech, earn as much money as is feasible, and then funnel the excess funds into companies that _do_ longetivity research.
> Much better option is to keep working in tech, earn as much money as is feasible, and then funnel the excess funds into companies that _do_ longetivity research.
THat's a good idea. But I think an even better strategy would be to start a cryptocurrency hedge fund and later start an associated exchange.
This will allow us to maximize the amount of money we earn, so we can have the greatest impact on companies that do longevity research.
THat's a good idea. But I think an even better strategy would be to start a cryptocurrency hedge fund and later start an associated exchange.
This will allow us to maximize the amount of money we earn, so we can have the greatest impact on companies that do longevity research.
> But I think an even better strategy would be to start a cryptocurrency hedge fund and later start an associated exchange.
> ???
> profit
> This will allow us to maximize the amount of money we earn
So if you could fill in the ??? on how to profit, then yes, this is a good way too. Note that it needs to be legal.
> ???
> profit
> This will allow us to maximize the amount of money we earn
So if you could fill in the ??? on how to profit, then yes, this is a good way too. Note that it needs to be legal.
I'm joking around. What you said is very similar to the "Effective Altruist" mindset and so I'm referencing FTX & Alameda.
oh it's not altruistic. The life and longevity research investment will make a good return, considering that almost everyone would want to live longer and thus the demand would be insatiable. It's an investment.
But you have to spend all the money on research before the SEC sends you to jail, right?
That's a great way of minimizing the money you earn
Nice try, SBF.
Doesn't the same logic apply to funneling your money? How would you be qualified to direct your resources effectively if you aren't an expert in the field? How much surplus do you expect to generate that it will actually make a difference after it's gone through the layers of bureaucratic bloat and maybe, if you're lucky, is actually spent on productive research that bears fruit?
I'm not sure if money is the bottleneck - I think billionaires are already throwing as much funds as they can to such companies. I don't think a few extra millionaires are going to make a difference.
I'm not particularly concerned about partially starting over in a new field - I'm not that old so my skillset is not particularly tremendous. If anything, I feel coming from outside the traditional system and already having financial freedom is a positive. When I was in academia (not CS) I didn't feel the standard of the people there was particularly great and my trust in top-down organizations is generally quite low.
I'm not particularly concerned about partially starting over in a new field - I'm not that old so my skillset is not particularly tremendous. If anything, I feel coming from outside the traditional system and already having financial freedom is a positive. When I was in academia (not CS) I didn't feel the standard of the people there was particularly great and my trust in top-down organizations is generally quite low.
So once we all live forever we can spend our days improving gadgets just because it's fun?
If tech were that fun all SW engineers would be paid games industry salaries.
My bet is a mass existential crisis.
"working in ML", nothing like research on an arbitrary deadline to burn out staff. "Distributed systems" is hard, but working on Julia seems like a natural consolidation of your interests.
A 1 year break is a good idea, if you are at the burn-out stage with persistent neck pain, and constant illnesses due to immune system stress.
The ikigai chart is pretty good guidance: https://management30.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/IKIGAI--...
Generally, most take a graduate course, or pick up a new certified skill.
Synthetic biology study is interesting, as it approaches some problems in unique ways. Also, a course on Human Behavioral Biology may be interesting if you are interested in Neuromorphic engineering.
Different people have different ideas of fun. =)
A 1 year break is a good idea, if you are at the burn-out stage with persistent neck pain, and constant illnesses due to immune system stress.
The ikigai chart is pretty good guidance: https://management30.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/IKIGAI--...
Generally, most take a graduate course, or pick up a new certified skill.
Synthetic biology study is interesting, as it approaches some problems in unique ways. Also, a course on Human Behavioral Biology may be interesting if you are interested in Neuromorphic engineering.
Different people have different ideas of fun. =)
If you're burnt out, I suggest a proper vacation. You can then do anything from your list of interests.
+1 to a vacation. And after that rather than going after what's in demand/hype right now, go after something that you want to use and isn't available in the market, and try to build that. I have found building tools for myself that I and a bunch of other people love to use as one of the most rewarding/fulfilling work.
That is great advice. Use your skills to improve the lives of those around you in a meaningful way. I'm working on building a scheduling app for water delivery at the canal company I am a rights holder in. Everyone, including me, will end up using it. Right now they use email and paper cards. They can't afford to pay someone what it would cost to develop it. I saw a need and stepped up. Very rewarding.
That’s an amazing initiative. Best of luck! :)
My personal journey out of burnout: Stop chasing ‘latest new tech’ (where that be node packages, gadgets, or whatever) and social status. Sell things you don’t actually use and refuse to buy more. Listen more than you speak. Assume good intent by everyone. Assume individuals (differentiate this from the opinions on popular media however) are right and you are wrong. Finally: volunteer, in person, at a charity of some sort. Helping people in need does a lot of things, including resetting perspective.
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You mentioned office politics but some of the FAANG parts aren't that bad. Why don't you see how your friends feel? Friend of a friend works at google with autonomous vehicles (I think it was android for cars), he liked it there while the web dev at google left pretty quickly.
If you have a passion and want to share it, see if you can contribute to home assistant, there's a project to add a chat gpt like to it although it looks more like a decision tree.
If you have a passion and want to share it, see if you can contribute to home assistant, there's a project to add a chat gpt like to it although it looks more like a decision tree.
I’d agree with you that a sabbatical would be ideal. However, I’d say it’d be interesting if you make it a somewhat “active” sabbatical.
In your place, I’d read, exercise, or just dig deeper into something I’m interested in.
Personally, whenever I feel I’m close to burning out, I realize it’s not because of how much I work, but because of thinking I have no purpose. Choosing my own path gives me purpose, and that’s very helpful.
Maybe that’ll give you some food for thought. Hope it helps.
In your place, I’d read, exercise, or just dig deeper into something I’m interested in.
Personally, whenever I feel I’m close to burning out, I realize it’s not because of how much I work, but because of thinking I have no purpose. Choosing my own path gives me purpose, and that’s very helpful.
Maybe that’ll give you some food for thought. Hope it helps.
Have you been 10 years at the same company? That is a long, long time. Simply trying something new might be enough to knock you out of your slump. ML is just one niche - why not move to an infra team, security team, sre team or similar? It will be completely new and may reignite your love for engineering.
I'm mixed on sabbaticals. I think the key thing with a sabbatical, for me at least, is it should be treated as doing another job for a while - pick a personal project, some open source you are interested in, and deliver some major functionality on it over a few months. You mentioned Emacs - there is lots of work that Emacs needs for improvement, so it is ripe with things you can pick up and work on. The worse thing for me is just sitting around and doing nothing, that leads me to depression if I do it for long enough.
As others have said, I'd also suggest working on your relationship to work. Seeing a therapist may help with this. If you can find fulfillment outside of work, then the work itself becomes less big in your life and it's easier to avoid burnout.
I'm mixed on sabbaticals. I think the key thing with a sabbatical, for me at least, is it should be treated as doing another job for a while - pick a personal project, some open source you are interested in, and deliver some major functionality on it over a few months. You mentioned Emacs - there is lots of work that Emacs needs for improvement, so it is ripe with things you can pick up and work on. The worse thing for me is just sitting around and doing nothing, that leads me to depression if I do it for long enough.
As others have said, I'd also suggest working on your relationship to work. Seeing a therapist may help with this. If you can find fulfillment outside of work, then the work itself becomes less big in your life and it's easier to avoid burnout.
Go to Hawaii or Tahiti and lay on the beach till you can't stand it.
For me, that's maybe 3-4 hours.
Definitely take a sabbatical, but it should be at least 6 months, preferably a year. Do what you feel like during that time.
why so long of sabbatical?
Anything less than 6 months won't be long enough to recover from the burnout. A full year gives time to work on a significant project or goal.
> - Cryptography and security (not cryptocurrency/blockchain): I have a math background and I was always an algebra/discrete math person, so this seems a potential fit.
There's lots of cool stuff happening with zero-knowledge proofs at the moment, if you want to look in that direction.
There's lots of cool stuff happening with zero-knowledge proofs at the moment, if you want to look in that direction.
Go travel for a few months. Some place you don’t know the language. Change your environment to something different than what you’re used to!
It may not immediately reveal what the best option is. But you won’t regret traveling, and this sounds like the perfect time to do it.
It may not immediately reveal what the best option is. But you won’t regret traveling, and this sounds like the perfect time to do it.
It's hard to suggest things tbh because it's very individual.
I decided to buy and move to a farm we're I will renovate it myself and create an environment which is quite, green and lively.
I also hope that this will give me the balance and allows me to look outside in my future park while working and also being able to transition into life work balance which is worth it.
Then I will try to design a sustainable day to day schedule for enough time for outside and study time. The study time itself will than be containing all the things you mentioned like learning music or another language.
I decided to buy and move to a farm we're I will renovate it myself and create an environment which is quite, green and lively.
I also hope that this will give me the balance and allows me to look outside in my future park while working and also being able to transition into life work balance which is worth it.
Then I will try to design a sustainable day to day schedule for enough time for outside and study time. The study time itself will than be containing all the things you mentioned like learning music or another language.
It's crypto related but a bit on its ear, but AML/KYC firms (disclosure, I work for one that got bought by Mastercard) take a more rigorous, and less hype-centric approach (mostly because it's about Anti Money Laundering and Counter Terrorism funding on Crypto, than about Crypto itself). Lot's of data, lots of interesting problems.
Otherwise, I'd say if you have a musical bent, certainly any Ableton like project would be a bounty of "fun" (I've always wanted to see a drum programming rig that equal parts Ableton and Reason)
Otherwise, I'd say if you have a musical bent, certainly any Ableton like project would be a bounty of "fun" (I've always wanted to see a drum programming rig that equal parts Ableton and Reason)
A bit of time off will do you good. Then consider your skill set and the things you liked and didn't like about your past experiences. Try to find something that lies in the intersection of those things.
I would offer that the more clearly and honestly you formulate those things, the more likely it is that the right opportunity will present itself. Nothing magical about this philosophy, it's a simple consequence of being able to say "no" to the many possible wayward paths that we normally waste precious time on.
I would offer that the more clearly and honestly you formulate those things, the more likely it is that the right opportunity will present itself. Nothing magical about this philosophy, it's a simple consequence of being able to say "no" to the many possible wayward paths that we normally waste precious time on.
> I'd also like to minimize the type of workplace politics I've experienced at FAANG.
You're going to find workplace politics everywhere. I suggest you make professional communications your next vocation, which will teach you how to master like a ninja all those uncomfortable political behaviors and situations you dislike and turn you into the technology achiever you want to be. Possessing professional communication skills teaches one how to slice through politics with katana sharp language and words.
You're going to find workplace politics everywhere. I suggest you make professional communications your next vocation, which will teach you how to master like a ninja all those uncomfortable political behaviors and situations you dislike and turn you into the technology achiever you want to be. Possessing professional communication skills teaches one how to slice through politics with katana sharp language and words.
Burnout compounds and is hard to come back from. I’d be very careful. I’ve seen a couple of bad cases over the years, where these people really aren’t quite the same as they were.
Have you ever seriously looked into doing your own startup? I've been founding SaaS startups for the past 5 years and I can't go back. Hasn't been as lucrative (thus far) as FAANG would have been, but it's paid the bills and has been far, far, far more enjoyable than any corporate job.
Would be more than happy to give you my perspective and what it's been like as a small, moderately successfuly SaaS founder. Ping me at [email protected]
Would be more than happy to give you my perspective and what it's been like as a small, moderately successfuly SaaS founder. Ping me at [email protected]
Cryptography and security, on a professional level. But I would say just take a sabbatical, travel and enjoy life without a computer. P.s. Italy has good food :)
It's important to prioritize self-care and manage work-life balance to avoid burnout and finding ways to enjoy life beyond your computer screen.
Transition to contracting can provide a change of pace and allow you to have more control over the projects you work on and the clients you work with. This could give you the time and help you determine if you'd like to stay in the tech field or venture into something different.
Transition to contracting can provide a change of pace and allow you to have more control over the projects you work on and the clients you work with. This could give you the time and help you determine if you'd like to stay in the tech field or venture into something different.
> Part of me is tired of spending so much of my life in front of a computer.
If you really want to get outdoors a lot and also do something technical, move somewhere really rural with low cost of living and start a wireless ISP or tiny regional fiber to the home ISP. Depends how good your network engineering knowledge or ability to teach yourself is, and level of interest in doing residential access ISP operations, of course.
If you really want to get outdoors a lot and also do something technical, move somewhere really rural with low cost of living and start a wireless ISP or tiny regional fiber to the home ISP. Depends how good your network engineering knowledge or ability to teach yourself is, and level of interest in doing residential access ISP operations, of course.
Since you have done some ML and have math background, you can perhaps look into 'Distributed Machine Learning'. The recent development such as ChatGPI required huge resources for training and data. Perhaps, distributed ML has a potential to democratize ML space.
I suggest lookin the following page
https://michaelkamp.org
I suggest lookin the following page
https://michaelkamp.org
to be honest i don't understand what the problem is. I never worked at a FAANG so maybe i don't get it or i'm insensitive. you made a shit ton of money. you probably have so much money you can retire. what is your problem? i worked on a startup for 15 years and never got funding despite products an revenue. i'm tired too and i have nothing saved up for retirement and i'm in my 40s. problems are relative ... there are people much worse off than i am. sure you might have to figure out what's next but if you have $ in the bank is that really a big deal?
i see googlers on linkedin making a big drama they are fired. really? you made all this money, who cares? you can go do something else or retire. how many people have been waiting for years to get a FAANG job? as a googler you need to wait a year and you call that a problem? people are so far of from reality it is mind boggling. and they think because they worked at google they are entitled to a job tomorrow pronto.
i see googlers on linkedin making a big drama they are fired. really? you made all this money, who cares? you can go do something else or retire. how many people have been waiting for years to get a FAANG job? as a googler you need to wait a year and you call that a problem? people are so far of from reality it is mind boggling. and they think because they worked at google they are entitled to a job tomorrow pronto.
I am in similar position. I am half so wealthy I never need to care and half completely broke.
Don’t know which one it is. It’s not liquid.
Depending on if the economy improves could go either way.
Don’t know which one it is. It’s not liquid.
Depending on if the economy improves could go either way.
May I ask why you're even looking for a "fix" to the job situation? More than 10 years at the highest-paying companies will likely have set you up with more money than the average person will make in two lifetimes. Why are you looking for work at a place with less office politics instead of not working and just doing whatever makes you happy?
Lower your expenses.
Move cheaper.
Be more basic
Say you can live on 40% of your current salary.
Join a startup or smaller company for a smaller salary. Perhaps you can even work 3 days a week? Spend the other 2 in passion projects.
I recently started to make mods for various Unity games. It is a lot of fun, I do it in my pace and the way I want it.
I recently started to make mods for various Unity games. It is a lot of fun, I do it in my pace and the way I want it.
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Try public service. The knowledge and experience you would bring to the table would be extremely valuable. The sector may not move as fast as big tech but everyday you go home, you will know that you made an impact on your community. It will be gratifying at a deeper level.
what about a really long vacation?
like half a year or more. call it a sabbatical.
if you have kids and/or a significant other, take them with you.
you are already thinking about what to do next. find a way to not do thing, other than sun and relax and maybe some bodily activity.
(From my experience, had more than 1 burn out over the years).
like half a year or more. call it a sabbatical.
if you have kids and/or a significant other, take them with you.
you are already thinking about what to do next. find a way to not do thing, other than sun and relax and maybe some bodily activity.
(From my experience, had more than 1 burn out over the years).
> - Helping out with homelessness, loneliness, the elderly or disabled
I think solving problems in that space or just helping out will give huge amounts of good vibe energy and eventually lead to something you want to do in the long term.
I think solving problems in that space or just helping out will give huge amounts of good vibe energy and eventually lead to something you want to do in the long term.
Join HVM and Kindelia’s Discord.
https://github.com/HigherOrderCO/HVM
Read Interaction Nets paper
Read Interaction Nets paper
I am more or less in the same situation (s/FAANGs/startups) with a shift in interests (though still interested in CS somehow...), would be great to chat if you are up to.
Love your list of problems.
I would say they are all great ideas.
Do wonder why something tangential to climate crisis isn't on there?
Lots of interesting work in green-tech. It's all heavy on distributed systems too.
I would say they are all great ideas.
Do wonder why something tangential to climate crisis isn't on there?
Lots of interesting work in green-tech. It's all heavy on distributed systems too.
Can't you just retire after 10 years at FAANG? Just do what you want for a year.
I find it mind-blowing that people actually need advice on what to do with their free time.
I find it mind-blowing that people actually need advice on what to do with their free time.
> Formal verification / theorem proving
You could use your sabatical to learn F*, Agda or similar.
Easy to then transition to a nice, slow moving and meaningful engineering position.
You could use your sabatical to learn F*, Agda or similar.
Easy to then transition to a nice, slow moving and meaningful engineering position.
adjacently related to purpose-driven projects, I've founded the company that competes with college by creating a pathway from high school to careers, and we are starting to get some momentum. I built an mvp to get some awesome pilots going, but now looking for someone to take over the tech role as we go from 0++
if it sounds like this might fuel you rather than consume you, email me: [email protected]
if it sounds like this might fuel you rather than consume you, email me: [email protected]
> Burnt out from big tech. What's next?
small tech
small tech
Little Tech has a nice human-scale, handcrafted feel to it.
Look back from 2030. Which one of these will have added most to the stories you will tell your grand-kids.
For those of you with families and took a sabbatical, what did you do about health insurance?
Switch to a remote team and work less hours. 4 hour work week by Tim Ferriss blah blah blah
How about a smaller, more meaningful but still well-funded ML company like Anthropic
I know self-driving cars have had a rough several years, but there are still some good companies out there where ML would be highly valued and the problems are more grounded.
(Cruise, for example - have a friend who works there)
(Cruise, for example - have a friend who works there)
Take a year out and travel somewhere, reset.
How do you feel about founding a startup?
I am in the exact same place. Feel ya.
Go to a farmhouse and farm for a year, off and on.
You will recover.
You will recover.
Layoffs.
>I want to leave tech, here are some alternatives I’ve considered
>all tech roles
>all tech roles
I am now going to be mean, pardon my early morning attitude:
You spent > 10 years at a FAANG and you are burnt out. Oh-kay, if you played the cards even half way right, you have more money in the bank than any three of us, and you can just leave and figure out which one of those (good) ideas you listed you would like to do. Heck, you probably made a lot of good connections there, and could take your (deserved) abbatical and then create a startup with friends exploring one (or more) of those good ideas at your own pace.
To me, in my eyes, what I just wrote down sounds like a pipe-dream. If I could I would...
You spent > 10 years at a FAANG and you are burnt out. Oh-kay, if you played the cards even half way right, you have more money in the bank than any three of us, and you can just leave and figure out which one of those (good) ideas you listed you would like to do. Heck, you probably made a lot of good connections there, and could take your (deserved) abbatical and then create a startup with friends exploring one (or more) of those good ideas at your own pace.
To me, in my eyes, what I just wrote down sounds like a pipe-dream. If I could I would...
Do you have an idea that you want to turn into a startup? What is stopping you right now?
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I figure I could take a sabbatical and explore some new areas, try to transition to contracting, or look for jobs outside of the big tech/web startup scene. Ideally I'd like something that requires rigor, with a focus on software architecture or algorithms/optimization. I'd also like to minimize the type of workplace politics I've experienced at FAANG. I'm open to suggestions that don't exclusively have to do with software. Part of me is tired of spending so much of my life in front of a computer.
Here are some disorganized ideas that might give a sense of my interests:
- Cryptography and security (not cryptocurrency/blockchain): I have a math background and I was always an algebra/discrete math person, so this seems a potential fit.
- Formal verification / theorem proving
- Open messaging standards (e.g., Matrix): I find the current state with siloed proprietary messengers a travesty
- Open repositories of knowledge (e.g., Wikipedia, OpenStreetMap)
- "User-empowering" software (e.g., Emacs, Ableton Live)
- Distributed systems
- Programming language development (compilers, libraries)
- Graphics (though the gaming industry isn't exactly the place to recover from burnout)
- Research in cognitive science, psychedelics (lots of hype here though), complex systems, physics
- Studying music composition or audio engineering
- Helping out with homelessness, loneliness, the elderly or disabled