Developer with ADHD? You’re not alone(stackoverflow.blog)
stackoverflow.blog
Developer with ADHD? You’re not alone
https://stackoverflow.blog/2023/02/19/developer-with-adhd-youre-not-alone/
117 comments
It affects your insurance? MORTGAGES? What the hell? In the US, the only external downside of ADHD is when you change doctors and the new one automatically assumes you're trying to swindle them to get Adderal, so they make you do another psych evaluation that will inevitably say the same thing as the last one. Defibutely doesn't affect mortgages. I doubt that it would affect vehicle licenses.
Friends of mine in various countries with adult diagnoses of ADHD have mentioned it has affected a whole bunch of things.
Driving permissions and insurances are a common one, but also: suddenly being deemed medically unfit to do various other things such as possess and use firearms, scuba dive, fly aircraft, etc.
What strikes me as absurd about all this is that they always had ADHD, but once they got it diagnosed and started managing it, they are deemed unfit to do a load of shit.
Driving permissions and insurances are a common one, but also: suddenly being deemed medically unfit to do various other things such as possess and use firearms, scuba dive, fly aircraft, etc.
What strikes me as absurd about all this is that they always had ADHD, but once they got it diagnosed and started managing it, they are deemed unfit to do a load of shit.
> In the US, the only external downside of ADHD
The FAA doesn't look kindly on ADHD diagnoses for people looking to get pilots licenses, even private. It adds a bunch of extra hoops to jump through.
The FAA doesn't look kindly on ADHD diagnoses for people looking to get pilots licenses, even private. It adds a bunch of extra hoops to jump through.
This is true for a variety of health problems. You need a doctor to verify it doesn’t impair your ability to fly a plane safely.
There are also restrictions on medications you can take and still fly a plane.
There are also restrictions on medications you can take and still fly a plane.
Being on anti-depressants is also a no-no as well it seems.
I’m pretty sure ADA stops companies from increasing rates for having a disability.
(ADHD is a recognized disability under ADA.)
There are public safety provisions allowed, for example, if you are bipolar, you can not be a commercial airline pilot. Driving a car does not meet the public safety exceptions.
(ADHD is a recognized disability under ADA.)
There are public safety provisions allowed, for example, if you are bipolar, you can not be a commercial airline pilot. Driving a car does not meet the public safety exceptions.
The part about driver's licenses is different nowadays, people can get exemptions from their doctors in most cases.
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it affects vehicle licenses globally; with any psych diagnosis you're restricted to single engine VFR flight iirc
Seems important to double check yah? Vs randomly prescribe any medicine and person requests?
When the "double check" costs me $400 even though <new doctor> already has all my medical records including 60 pages detailing my previous psych evaluations? No, it's not important, it's completely superfluous.
Of course, but its an absolute pain when you switch jobs/insurers or move and have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get prescribed the drugs you need to get through those bunches of hoops.
Generally people with proof of a diagnosis and a current prescription get to continue taking their current prescription without any hassle.
Not so in the case, you might lose it for months if you move and switch doctors.
Not so in the case, you might lose it for months if you move and switch doctors.
Life insurance is way more expensive if you have an ADHD diagnosis
I wonder at what point is XYZ job within tech better for those with ADHD, or is especially challenging.
I’ve made many stupid small mistakes where someone checks my code in review and finds a small error, or I forget to run the unit test suite (we don’t currently have an auto-testing pipeline) where it’s led me to question my career.
On the other hand, what you describe fits very well with my experiences, endless tasks to do (especially in a “many hats” role), and working hard to avoid work.
Side note: For how well the Swedish system works, I’m surprised that they can do that based on such diagnosis. Affect, mortgages? That’s insane. +1 to the states on that one.
I’ve made many stupid small mistakes where someone checks my code in review and finds a small error, or I forget to run the unit test suite (we don’t currently have an auto-testing pipeline) where it’s led me to question my career.
On the other hand, what you describe fits very well with my experiences, endless tasks to do (especially in a “many hats” role), and working hard to avoid work.
Side note: For how well the Swedish system works, I’m surprised that they can do that based on such diagnosis. Affect, mortgages? That’s insane. +1 to the states on that one.
> I wonder at what point is XYZ job within tech better for those with ADHD, or is especially challenging.
I have no data to back this up, but I'm pretty sure that this is entirely dependent on the work environment. If you have an encouraging environment that is flexible enough to compensate for the downsides of ADHD, than it can also take advantage of hyperfocus and flow states, radically unconventional solutions where creative thinking is needed or super fast context switching to go through a whole host of little problems in a short amount of time.
If the environment instead caters to a very neurotypical way of thinking and does not (or cannot) have a lot of sympathy for people with ADHD than the difficult symptoms will be amplified, while the positives cannot be taken advantage of.
I don't think it has a lot to do with the actual job at all.
I have no data to back this up, but I'm pretty sure that this is entirely dependent on the work environment. If you have an encouraging environment that is flexible enough to compensate for the downsides of ADHD, than it can also take advantage of hyperfocus and flow states, radically unconventional solutions where creative thinking is needed or super fast context switching to go through a whole host of little problems in a short amount of time.
If the environment instead caters to a very neurotypical way of thinking and does not (or cannot) have a lot of sympathy for people with ADHD than the difficult symptoms will be amplified, while the positives cannot be taken advantage of.
I don't think it has a lot to do with the actual job at all.
It’s all fun and games until you also get a (micro)manager with the same ADHD, but always looking at the other squirrel
Oof, as a Sysadmin who strongly suspects he may have ADHD I guess I'll wait until I move back to Aus (from Sweden) before trying to get diagnosed...
If you feel you need the help, the downsides aren't that big. It's just when you switch insurance provider, they will ask about pre-existing medical conditions. This goes for everything, high blood pressure etc etc.
As an ex-sys admin, couldn't agree more with your pet theory. Many of us thrive when there's a sense of urgency ... but then can feel pretty unproductive during times of calm.
I appreciate the article's efforts to raise awareness, that said, as a developer with ADHD I wish 'hyperfocus' wasn't always trotted out as a kind of ADHD superpower. The inability to control your attention in order to achieve complex tasks and effect desired outcomes is ADHD. So called 'hyperfocus' is just as likely to waste your time on something unrelated and unhelpful to what you want to do. It's like telling a sleepwalker "Hey, cheer up, sometimes you end up in the office and you can skip your commute!"
It's so annoying to have people that think they are just doing the 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water' but being honest how good can an executive function disability be?
It's like everyone is climbing a mountain, and they are wearing snow shoes, but I'm stuck with normal boots or worse. However, when I start having fun climbing I plucked off the ground by a ski lift that takes me to a random place up the mountain. If I'm travelling in groups or trying to reach a certain place, to not get lost I have to jump off the lift. Then I'm back to walking on foot, hurt but in an ache but not an actual damage and I have to try to keep up with the snow shoe folk again.
It's like everyone is climbing a mountain, and they are wearing snow shoes, but I'm stuck with normal boots or worse. However, when I start having fun climbing I plucked off the ground by a ski lift that takes me to a random place up the mountain. If I'm travelling in groups or trying to reach a certain place, to not get lost I have to jump off the lift. Then I'm back to walking on foot, hurt but in an ache but not an actual damage and I have to try to keep up with the snow shoe folk again.
There was a recent article in nature (I think) that talked about dislexia and adhd as being allowed by evolution because in larger tribes or civilizations it provided a benefit for the tribe/civilization to have people with those specializations despite the downsides.
I will say that my hyperfocus as a software developer was almost all upside until I had to support multiple efforts. The talking over people lack of time management and tendency to focus on the most fun task at hand were all things my good managers could work around and forgive.
I will say that my hyperfocus as a software developer was almost all upside until I had to support multiple efforts. The talking over people lack of time management and tendency to focus on the most fun task at hand were all things my good managers could work around and forgive.
I've always felt there might be something to the Hunter vs Farmer hypothesis[0]
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_versus_farmer_hypothesi...
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_versus_farmer_hypothesi...
I've recently been able to crystalize this as "Hyperfocus is just concentration you don't control". Concentration: that thing non-ADHD people can do too.
In the long run all the unrelated stuff you wasted your time on before will add up as in-depth knowledge relevant to what you liok for now
Yea but how useful is that if I can't control USING that information. The only way to control what I can focus on unless I loop in some way to get ALOT of dopamine out of it.
It's an executive function DISABILITY, it takes so much work to get it close to useful where it just makes it so your basically on par with everyone after it.
It's an executive function DISABILITY, it takes so much work to get it close to useful where it just makes it so your basically on par with everyone after it.
> Yea but how useful is that if I can't control USING that information.
I have ADHD. I write down a ton of notes. I have a large, and growing, note-taking environment (Obsidian). After a while using features such as backlinks, etc, you begin to see just _how connected_ everything you know is. Interdisciplinary _is the way to work_, not in some narrow silo.
I do not have a job I care about too much right now, so I am not focused at all on my day job. But I can focus for _hours_ writing code or doing some tinkering in a lab -- the goal is to get a job where I can do either of these...but that requires graduate school.
I have "talk shop" level knowledge in what feels like 20 different domains. I tell people that I am a "jack of all trades but a master of none". A Blessing and a curse.
I have ADHD. I write down a ton of notes. I have a large, and growing, note-taking environment (Obsidian). After a while using features such as backlinks, etc, you begin to see just _how connected_ everything you know is. Interdisciplinary _is the way to work_, not in some narrow silo.
I do not have a job I care about too much right now, so I am not focused at all on my day job. But I can focus for _hours_ writing code or doing some tinkering in a lab -- the goal is to get a job where I can do either of these...but that requires graduate school.
I have "talk shop" level knowledge in what feels like 20 different domains. I tell people that I am a "jack of all trades but a master of none". A Blessing and a curse.
yea all this is romanized as if the curse isn't a huge part of my life aswell. Like neet I know how to do all this stuff now time to watch everyone be able to complete and do it all as I just collect information and half finished projects
I've been diagnosed with ADHD 4 times by 4 separate qualified clinicians and stimulant medication undoubtedly makes me more effective, so asked and answered I guess.
But I sort of philosophically struggle with the "disorder" bit of it. I live in a box with a glass wall facing other boxes with glass walls and type into a computer screen any time that I'm not actively going to the gym or doing something outdoors becuase the default thing I do is try to create enough material prosperity to exist.
This seems like something that would have a caveman climbing the walls, which is roughly how I feel about the glass box / computer screen routine when I'm not on ADHD medication.
Is is "neurotypical" to be perfectly at ease spending hours hunched in front of a screen under artifical light in order to eat, or is it "neurotypical" to be fantasizing that the pool cue next to my monitor would fly pretty straight if a lion walked through the door?
But I sort of philosophically struggle with the "disorder" bit of it. I live in a box with a glass wall facing other boxes with glass walls and type into a computer screen any time that I'm not actively going to the gym or doing something outdoors becuase the default thing I do is try to create enough material prosperity to exist.
This seems like something that would have a caveman climbing the walls, which is roughly how I feel about the glass box / computer screen routine when I'm not on ADHD medication.
Is is "neurotypical" to be perfectly at ease spending hours hunched in front of a screen under artifical light in order to eat, or is it "neurotypical" to be fantasizing that the pool cue next to my monitor would fly pretty straight if a lion walked through the door?
I've long fantasized what the story of "Grog, the hunter-gatherer with ADHD" would look like. It's... not pretty.
- Stepping on a branch while hunting because of a fractal pattern in the nearby tree.
- Get drop-kicked by a puma because they spent too much time looking at the ground while trying not to break a branch while hunting.
- Getting distracted and missing their ability to ambush prey.
- Their spear breaking because of a lack of maintenance.
- Spending weeks trying to improve their spear and forgetting to eat/sleep/drink regularly.
- Poisoning themselves/another because they started glossing over the details while picking mushrooms.
Control over concentration has never been solely a modern day requirement.
- Stepping on a branch while hunting because of a fractal pattern in the nearby tree.
- Get drop-kicked by a puma because they spent too much time looking at the ground while trying not to break a branch while hunting.
- Getting distracted and missing their ability to ambush prey.
- Their spear breaking because of a lack of maintenance.
- Spending weeks trying to improve their spear and forgetting to eat/sleep/drink regularly.
- Poisoning themselves/another because they started glossing over the details while picking mushrooms.
Control over concentration has never been solely a modern day requirement.
I think this is a misclassification of ADHD. Well at least mine. I tend to notice everything and be aware of everything with very little tunnel vision and I think it would work to my advantage if, and humongous if, I also didn't have a fear of any flying insect because I can't tune them out. Almost everything you seem to be describing is a tunnel vision. And almost everything you're describing there is something that I see neurotypical people have issues with that I have to redirect them until them to focus on things that I should have trouble focusing on. But again that's maybe me because I was diagnosed really early and I as a survival mechanism overcompensated my focus in a way because throughout my entire life everyone was telling me I wasn't paying attention when I clearly was so I had to prove it to everyone that I was paying attention to everything all the time.
Also my spear would be really well maintained and that is because I'm trying to improve it when I know there is nothing around and I would want to be ready for when there is a puma around and I would also be excited to try to want to test it to see if the improvements I made on the spear were actually improvements. Lol
Also my spear would be really well maintained and that is because I'm trying to improve it when I know there is nothing around and I would want to be ready for when there is a puma around and I would also be excited to try to want to test it to see if the improvements I made on the spear were actually improvements. Lol
I don't know if that would match up with reality. I know several people who have ADHD and are hunters. They seem to find it very easy to focus on the hunt and all of the associated preparation and activities.
Not hunting, but it matches my experience with wildlife photography. I can spend hours carefully stalking animals because it feeds my dopamine imbalance. My distractions aren't random, because my brain is primed to respond to specific sounds and movements in my environment. Compare that to a sterile office where my mind wanders because that stimulation can't be found anywhere.
“Neurotypical” has to do with ability to function at a fundamental level. If neurotypical person is interested in something, they are likely to be fine doing that thing. But they can also chose not to do it.
Someone with ADHD has trouble controlling attention. To be a disorder, this needs to be severe enough to limit you.
There is a significant overlap in behavior with neurotypical and neurodivergent people. What separates them is what is driving that behavior.
Someone with ADHD has trouble controlling attention. To be a disorder, this needs to be severe enough to limit you.
There is a significant overlap in behavior with neurotypical and neurodivergent people. What separates them is what is driving that behavior.
I probably have some wiggle room on the details, but the combination of my skills, experience, and the macro economy make me roughly a "knowledge worker". I'm interested as hell in all kinds of things, but if I "choose" not to do the "knowledge worker" thing I'm looking at a tough situation pretty quickly.
I'm sure you mean well by your comment but I'd be more interested in what you think about the broader theme of "knowledge work as a path to high achievement denominated in society's rewards" than whether or not I personally have a bunch of agency about wanting rewards.
I'm sure you mean well by your comment but I'd be more interested in what you think about the broader theme of "knowledge work as a path to high achievement denominated in society's rewards" than whether or not I personally have a bunch of agency about wanting rewards.
I can take a stab at that. :)
If we take the caveman argument at face value, the moment humanity started farming, we diverged for what we were evolved for.
In that time, the labor required for survival declined and more people had time to focus on more than mere survival. This was the start of societies and a class of people who ruled farmers.
Looking at it this way, knowledge work has existed in one form or another for millennia. Anyone who wrote books would qualify. Many of these people worked in organizations far more powerful that the laboring classes.
The Industrial Revolution accelerated this and today, we’re looking at ultimate result of that development.
For myself, I’m happy to participate in society’s benefits. I find knowledge work satisfying.
Besides, in a hunter/gatherer society, I’d have been a shaman, the original knowledge worker. ;)
If we take the caveman argument at face value, the moment humanity started farming, we diverged for what we were evolved for.
In that time, the labor required for survival declined and more people had time to focus on more than mere survival. This was the start of societies and a class of people who ruled farmers.
Looking at it this way, knowledge work has existed in one form or another for millennia. Anyone who wrote books would qualify. Many of these people worked in organizations far more powerful that the laboring classes.
The Industrial Revolution accelerated this and today, we’re looking at ultimate result of that development.
For myself, I’m happy to participate in society’s benefits. I find knowledge work satisfying.
Besides, in a hunter/gatherer society, I’d have been a shaman, the original knowledge worker. ;)
In my experience: yes, programming often pairs well with ADHD because it’s an ongoing stream of novel problems to solve.
That said, as we’ve injected more and more process into software development over the last decade or so I’ve found it harder and harder to engage. I respect its necessity but JIRA is nearly the opposite of the exploratory experience of programming.
That said, as we’ve injected more and more process into software development over the last decade or so I’ve found it harder and harder to engage. I respect its necessity but JIRA is nearly the opposite of the exploratory experience of programming.
I have an ADHD diagnosis and completely agree. The process has become soul crushing. If left to my own devices I would find plenty to do and I would enjoy it so so much more.
As a DevOps Engineer I often find myself writing code for personal projects on the "good screen" to the side of my "bad (work) screen". Maybe DevOps is just too boring for ADHD. You spend all day waiting for alarms.
Roughly 30% of people I work with at a MAANG have moderate to severe ADHD. Real ADHD, not some self-diagnosed or casual self-deprecation.
Just a couple days ago, my wife and I were having this same exact conversation. In fact, I wonder if big tech company — as dystopian as this sounds — tries to attract individuals that exhibit strong ADHD traits.
Side note: I'm 34 years old and just 3 days ago, was evaluated by a psychiatrist and was diagnosed with adult ADHD.
Side note: I'm 34 years old and just 3 days ago, was evaluated by a psychiatrist and was diagnosed with adult ADHD.
Side, side note: Congrats on taking the step and getting the diagnosis. From personal experience, it takes a few weeks but it really does feel like a light switch gets turned on after starting treatment.
Perhaps it's high functioning because or with ADHD and/or easier to control people who feel more vulnerable.
> Real ADHD, not some self-diagnosed or casual self-deprecation.
How would you know?
This number is totally unrealistic when the prevalence in the adult population is 2-4%.
Unless you work with 3 people, one of which has ADHD.
How would you know?
This number is totally unrealistic when the prevalence in the adult population is 2-4%.
Unless you work with 3 people, one of which has ADHD.
While I agree questioning how he would know, we can’t use the general population metric and apply it to a specific population, in this case, software engineers who work at MAANG, or just competent enough to pass the interview
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a larger percent population of ADHD in MAANG tech vs in the general population.
But to try and counter myself, there’s typically a larger population of ADHD (or it’s permutations) in trade jobs (though I argue programming is a trade skill, just a new breed in our digital age. Though I digress)
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a larger percent population of ADHD in MAANG tech vs in the general population.
But to try and counter myself, there’s typically a larger population of ADHD (or it’s permutations) in trade jobs (though I argue programming is a trade skill, just a new breed in our digital age. Though I digress)
I recently read a study that suggested around 30% of incarcerated individuals in the UK probably had ADHD or similar.
Just for another fun data point.
Just for another fun data point.
NBA players work in teams 100% great at shooting hoops, still the prevalence of that in the adult US population is tiny... what I am saying is that perhaps there is some selection effect happening here :)
NBA players are hired for their ability to shoot hoops. Software engineers are not hired for having ADHD.
True, but not all selection biases are intentional
The current estimate is more like 10%. Some of that may be over diagnosis, but some of it always was, kids have energy, that makes adults tired. But the degree of increase far exceeds any such explanation. The podcasts I've heard lately seem to indicate links to all the normal suspects, gut biome, autoimmune, and some chemical we may now be exposed to. Probably some combination.
Also, there are some jobs someone with ADHD will have a lot of trouble keeping. Jobs that benefit from hyperfocus are not among them. Many therapists will suggest careers like engineering, tech or writer (perhaps technical) for precisely that reason. So you would expect highly elevated rates of ADHD in those fields.
Also, there are some jobs someone with ADHD will have a lot of trouble keeping. Jobs that benefit from hyperfocus are not among them. Many therapists will suggest careers like engineering, tech or writer (perhaps technical) for precisely that reason. So you would expect highly elevated rates of ADHD in those fields.
"Laughable" seems a little strong (as well as slightly rude).
I certainly think it's plausible that there's certain sectors that see a prevalence well in excess of the general population. And there's enough variance between companies that some will be even higher.
30% does sound rather high but "laughable" implies the person you are replying to has stated something so far beyond that that mockery is the only appropriate response.
I certainly think it's plausible that there's certain sectors that see a prevalence well in excess of the general population. And there's enough variance between companies that some will be even higher.
30% does sound rather high but "laughable" implies the person you are replying to has stated something so far beyond that that mockery is the only appropriate response.
I already changed to "totally unrealistic" before you commented, but yes, I believe that 30% when the prevalence is at 5% for high estimates is so far beyond reality that it can be laughed at.
By that measure it's totally unrealistic that the average height of NBA players is 6'6"
I don’t think this is the greatest counter example, as there are far fewer NBA players than big-tech engineers.
Small groups can differ significantly from the population average more easily than large groups.
Small groups can differ significantly from the population average more easily than large groups.
No, because being tall is a prime factor when hiring NBA players, but having ADHD is not when hiring software engineers.
Being tall gives you an obvious advantage at basketball. As a result many tall people are drawn to pursuing a career in basketball. Could it be that ADHD gives you an advantage at the kind of tasks involved in software engineering, and that many people with ADHD are naturally drawn to this kind of work, even though the advantage is not so obvious as a physical characteristic like height?
Perhaps ADHD people are more susceptible to the attention-hijacking effects of computers and software.
So they decide they should go on to work with software since it keeps distracting them from everything else.
Ironic that they end up building even more psychologically exploitative software that hijacks our attention
So they decide they should go on to work with software since it keeps distracting them from everything else.
Ironic that they end up building even more psychologically exploitative software that hijacks our attention
The traits often looked for in software engineers when hiring can often bear a striking similarity to the traits an ADHD or autistic person may display.
Tech work has a lot of weird selection biases that can lead to high concentrations of certain minority groups working in the sector: eg, people with autism, ADHD, etc.
OP may have sampled by asking. Or watched typical symptoms. Or seen medication.
I myself do suspect people of having the condition without being a hundred percent certain they have it or know it themselves.
I myself do suspect people of having the condition without being a hundred percent certain they have it or know it themselves.
Also: developing software is an activity of high enough value that employers may put up with all the downsides of having ADHS.
Anyone have tips for how they manage their ADHD, specifically when you aren't able to get yourself motivated at all with the task at hand or feel like you have too may balls to juggle?
I really struggle with yak shaving and perfection being the enemy of good as well, my ADHD often devolves into OCD like behaviors.
I really struggle with yak shaving and perfection being the enemy of good as well, my ADHD often devolves into OCD like behaviors.
For procrastination - body doubling. It's very effective, easy to test, and works immediately. After an hour, you will know whether it works for you or not. You don't need to read a book or train for it; you don't get better at it. If you procrastinate a lot, this is the first method I would suggest.
I don't know if I have ADHD, but I'm definitely a chronic, severe procrastinator. I've been looking for a method to overcome it for 20 years. Finally, I tried body doubling, and it was like magic: suddenly, I became productive. I immediately made a drastic decision to hire someone to sit with me every day. I was a software developer, so going from 2-3h billable hours to 6-7h/day was well worth the expense. I hired a stay-at-home dad, and we connected every morning to work together (well, I was working, he played games and watched Netflix ;-)
Now, disclosure and shameless plug. Body doubling was such a life changer for me that I co-founded https://workmode.net/ - basically body doubling as a service for chronic procrastinators. It's tailored to people who need it for work (basically full-time body doubling). If you want to give it a try - we have 1-click demo session.
For acute (non-chronic), mild procrastinators, Focusmate might be a good choice too.
For other methods, I recommend reading https://solvingprocrastination.com/
I don't know if I have ADHD, but I'm definitely a chronic, severe procrastinator. I've been looking for a method to overcome it for 20 years. Finally, I tried body doubling, and it was like magic: suddenly, I became productive. I immediately made a drastic decision to hire someone to sit with me every day. I was a software developer, so going from 2-3h billable hours to 6-7h/day was well worth the expense. I hired a stay-at-home dad, and we connected every morning to work together (well, I was working, he played games and watched Netflix ;-)
Now, disclosure and shameless plug. Body doubling was such a life changer for me that I co-founded https://workmode.net/ - basically body doubling as a service for chronic procrastinators. It's tailored to people who need it for work (basically full-time body doubling). If you want to give it a try - we have 1-click demo session.
For acute (non-chronic), mild procrastinators, Focusmate might be a good choice too.
For other methods, I recommend reading https://solvingprocrastination.com/
I encourage you to go through the diagnosis process. There is much more to the disorder than just procrastination but it's easy to miss some of the more subtle differences and assume everyone experiences the world the same way you do.
For example, after being diagnosed and doing some therapy and self-education, I realized that I interrupt people because I have shorter working memory. Now I have some steps I take to mitigate interrupting behavior (although I'm not perfect).
Also, if you're running a business targeted at people with ADHD, don't you think it's worthwhile to know if you think and experience the world in the same way as your customers?
For example, after being diagnosed and doing some therapy and self-education, I realized that I interrupt people because I have shorter working memory. Now I have some steps I take to mitigate interrupting behavior (although I'm not perfect).
Also, if you're running a business targeted at people with ADHD, don't you think it's worthwhile to know if you think and experience the world in the same way as your customers?
While a lot of people with ADHD tend to procrastinate, the issue is not limited to them and affects other groups of people as well. Even people that seem highly organized and productive tend procrastinate in some aspects of their lives.
As for the diagnosis - I already talked with psychologist about it, and yes, I'm going to go through the process. My son went through diagnosis of autism recently, and it also ticked a lot of boxes.
As for the diagnosis - I already talked with psychologist about it, and yes, I'm going to go through the process. My son went through diagnosis of autism recently, and it also ticked a lot of boxes.
There’s no magic solution to this, otherwise ADHD wouldn’t be a disorder.
With too many things to juggle, you have to face the reality and drop some commitments, so you work only on the few things that you can manage without being overwhelmed.
To get started, it helps to extract a small (10-20min) specific starting task from a big vague task. Just don’t split the whole project into too many pieces at once, because that may start looking like too much.
And medication. Lots of people report that it really helps.
With too many things to juggle, you have to face the reality and drop some commitments, so you work only on the few things that you can manage without being overwhelmed.
To get started, it helps to extract a small (10-20min) specific starting task from a big vague task. Just don’t split the whole project into too many pieces at once, because that may start looking like too much.
And medication. Lots of people report that it really helps.
Pomodoros (short timed bursts of activity with frequent breaks). If you are having trouble shorten the time until you are able to start.
Describe the desired completed task to an imaginary third person. Poorly defined tasks can often make starting more difficult.
Describe the desired completed task to an imaginary third person. Poorly defined tasks can often make starting more difficult.
> Pomodoros (short timed bursts of activity with frequent breaks). If you are having trouble shorten the time until you are able to start.
Describe the desired completed task to an imaginary third person. Poorly defined tasks can often make starting more difficult.
Thanks! The 2nd point particularly makes a lot of sense.
Describe the desired completed task to an imaginary third person. Poorly defined tasks can often make starting more difficult.
Thanks! The 2nd point particularly makes a lot of sense.
My ADHD is severe enough that medication is more or less necessary to function.
Besides that, I've not had much luck being able to channel the focus medications bring, except one key thing. Take your medication after you get started on whatever you want to accomplish. Once the meds kick in, your attention will often grab onto whatever you happen to be doing, and stay there.
Another huge help is the OHIO principle: Only Handle It Once. Try to catch yourself whenever you think "I'll do it later", and do it right away instead. Maybe give yourself a reward whenever you manage to do this, for some self-conditioning.
As for the situation you mention, there is no shame in asking friends or family for help(to do some of the chores, help you get started). Especially if you ask someone who also has ADHD, they will understand your pain and want to help. Often getting that reset back to normal is the best way to get into better habits.
I find it's much harder to establish better habits when I have a gigantic list of unfinished chores to do.
Besides that, I've not had much luck being able to channel the focus medications bring, except one key thing. Take your medication after you get started on whatever you want to accomplish. Once the meds kick in, your attention will often grab onto whatever you happen to be doing, and stay there.
Another huge help is the OHIO principle: Only Handle It Once. Try to catch yourself whenever you think "I'll do it later", and do it right away instead. Maybe give yourself a reward whenever you manage to do this, for some self-conditioning.
As for the situation you mention, there is no shame in asking friends or family for help(to do some of the chores, help you get started). Especially if you ask someone who also has ADHD, they will understand your pain and want to help. Often getting that reset back to normal is the best way to get into better habits.
I find it's much harder to establish better habits when I have a gigantic list of unfinished chores to do.
Todo lists -- real ones written on paper -- help me tons. Everytime I have a 'I should.../I need to...' thought, it goes on the list. Then, when a gap in work occurs, I can pick something interesting on the list. The physical strikethrough on paper is satisfying in a way an electronic record isn't.
My preferred medium for notes and Todo lists is index cards. When I complete the tasks that fit reasonably on a card, it goes in the trash. Something about not wanting my desk littered with cards encourages me to complete them; software lists just grow and are easily forgotten/filed out of sight, or worse, become their own organizational, hyper-focus rabbit hole.
My preferred medium for notes and Todo lists is index cards. When I complete the tasks that fit reasonably on a card, it goes in the trash. Something about not wanting my desk littered with cards encourages me to complete them; software lists just grow and are easily forgotten/filed out of sight, or worse, become their own organizational, hyper-focus rabbit hole.
Check out this podcast: https://www.hackingyouradhd.com/adhd-podcast-network
Filled with tons of practical tips on managing your ADHD
Filled with tons of practical tips on managing your ADHD
>A perfect fit?
>Many developers with ADHD feel their job is a perfect fit for how they think and approach problems. “Coding can give ADHD brains exactly the kind of stimulation they crave,” explains full-stack developer Abbey Perini. “Not only is coding a creative endeavor that involves constantly learning new things, but also once one problem is solved, there’s always a brand new one to try.”
>In addition to a revolving door of fresh challenges that can keep people with ADHD engaged, coding can reward and encourage a state of hyperfocus: a frequently cited symptom of ADHD that developer Neil Peterson calls “a state of laser-like concentration in which distractions and even a sense of passing time seem to fade away.” It’s easy to draw parallels between hyperfocus and the flow state, a distraction-free groove in which programmers, writers, musicians, artists, and other creators produce their best work (occasionally while forgetting to eat). Our paid platform, Stack Overflow for Teams, is popular with developers in large part because it helps them avoid distraction and protect the productive sanctity of their flow state.
How much of the "hyperfocus" is just from all of the Adderall these people are popping--both those with actual ADHD, and those just feigning it to get pills from their Dr to boost their productivity?
If anything, it would seem like people with autism spectrum disorder, who can hyperfocus without popping pills, would be the perfect fit (and were seen as such 10-20 years ago). I actually wonder what % of SV SWEs (especially at FAANG) would lose their jobs, or wouldn't have gotten them to begin with, if Adderall didn't exist.
>Many developers with ADHD feel their job is a perfect fit for how they think and approach problems. “Coding can give ADHD brains exactly the kind of stimulation they crave,” explains full-stack developer Abbey Perini. “Not only is coding a creative endeavor that involves constantly learning new things, but also once one problem is solved, there’s always a brand new one to try.”
>In addition to a revolving door of fresh challenges that can keep people with ADHD engaged, coding can reward and encourage a state of hyperfocus: a frequently cited symptom of ADHD that developer Neil Peterson calls “a state of laser-like concentration in which distractions and even a sense of passing time seem to fade away.” It’s easy to draw parallels between hyperfocus and the flow state, a distraction-free groove in which programmers, writers, musicians, artists, and other creators produce their best work (occasionally while forgetting to eat). Our paid platform, Stack Overflow for Teams, is popular with developers in large part because it helps them avoid distraction and protect the productive sanctity of their flow state.
How much of the "hyperfocus" is just from all of the Adderall these people are popping--both those with actual ADHD, and those just feigning it to get pills from their Dr to boost their productivity?
If anything, it would seem like people with autism spectrum disorder, who can hyperfocus without popping pills, would be the perfect fit (and were seen as such 10-20 years ago). I actually wonder what % of SV SWEs (especially at FAANG) would lose their jobs, or wouldn't have gotten them to begin with, if Adderall didn't exist.
As someone who was only diagnosed with ADHD in the past year or so, I can verify that hyperfocus absolutely existed pre-medication. If I was interested in something, I could work on it for whole weekends without any sense of time passing. I did get diagnosed in a bit of a panic after I lost my previous role due to ADHD symptoms.
Although presently there is a strong institutional drive to disconnect nearly everything from IQ, the traditional medical dogma is that median IQ for ADHD individuals is lower than average. That's not to say that there aren't higher IQ individuals with ADHD.
But if IQ skews lower, what explains the paradox between this traditional view and supposed ADHD concentration in STEM?
My working theory is that ADHD-PI is actually an autism spectrum symptom and skews higher IQ.
ADHD hyperactive is probably still clinically related to ADHD-PI, but I'd guess that the hyperactive expression is just enough outside of the spectrum to disconnect it from AS. And that the higher IQ related "symptom" is less likely to be present as well.
Possibly due to a less overactive visual cortex: the increased visual processing theoretically being related to the daydreaming symptom of PI. And the attentional fatigue that triggers the daydreaming being related to ADHD-PI as well, in addition to the possibility of it being related to AS.
Although I don't work in IT, I suspect that the presence of ADHD-PI skews higher than expected in comparison with the hyperactive expression.
But if IQ skews lower, what explains the paradox between this traditional view and supposed ADHD concentration in STEM?
My working theory is that ADHD-PI is actually an autism spectrum symptom and skews higher IQ.
ADHD hyperactive is probably still clinically related to ADHD-PI, but I'd guess that the hyperactive expression is just enough outside of the spectrum to disconnect it from AS. And that the higher IQ related "symptom" is less likely to be present as well.
Possibly due to a less overactive visual cortex: the increased visual processing theoretically being related to the daydreaming symptom of PI. And the attentional fatigue that triggers the daydreaming being related to ADHD-PI as well, in addition to the possibility of it being related to AS.
Although I don't work in IT, I suspect that the presence of ADHD-PI skews higher than expected in comparison with the hyperactive expression.
I know it's not true but lately it seems like I am alone in NOT having ADHD.
Be thankful you don't have issues with intention and intrinsic motivation. ADHD is not a focus problem it's a motivation problem for the people it severely dysfunctions. It's a inability to hold your tongue when you really really really really want to mouth off at someone. Focus is and should be the last thing down on the list if people want to even consider that they have ADHD. Executive dysfunction is a real problem and just be thankful you don't have it.
Not only that, but it seems like any time I mention struggling to focus on some task, I instantly get told, no, I do have ADHD and need to get tested for it. Like, no, I just don't want to sit here and correct these math equations my code couldn't copy right.
Selection bias. You don’t hear from the people who don’t have problems. :)
I was astounded by the popularity of the term ADHD on HN. There are 48,000 posts and over a million comments. If you want to verify this, use ADHD not adhd in your search.
It's where all of us ADHD programmers go to procrastinate while all the neurotypical folk are harnessing that attention on business-aligned things.
It's like that post on blog options, and how a disproportionate number of blog posts are about setting up a blog.
It's like that post on blog options, and how a disproportionate number of blog posts are about setting up a blog.
As someone with ADHD, sysadmin work is the most pleasant. I actually dislike programming most of the time. So many things I have to keep track of, and programming languages only get more and more abstract.
Everyone on here says they have ADHD so they can get access to Adderall which is sort of a cheat code for programming. Some people do this genuinely believing they’re suffering from some disorder, others do it knowing they would be fine without it but better with it.
Imo stims aren’t really a cheat code to programming, ADHD itself is a cheat code to programming and stims help you with all the other stuff ADHD messes up for you.
I think many people do genuinely have ADHD and benefit from medication, but denying that Adderall abuse is rampant in Silicon Valley (which IMO is what whoever downvoted you is implicitly doing) is silly. This was even portrayed on the show Silicon Valley, and Scott Alexander (the slatestarcodex guy), who has written about Adderall at length, and confirmed its widespread use as a performance enhancer by those who don't have any legitimate medical need for it.
I don't see why this was downvoted as well; is it seriously controversial to suggest that a substantial number of people without ADHD are taking Adderall as a cognitive performance enhancer?
https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo...
>I didn’t realize how much of a psychiatrist’s time was spent gatekeeping Adderall.
>The human brain wasn’t built for accounting or software engineering. A few lucky people can do these things ten hours a day, every day, with a smile. The rest of us start fidgeting and checking our cell phone somewhere around the thirty minute mark. I work near the financial district of a big city, so every day a new Senior Regional Manipulator Of Tiny Numbers comes in and tells me that his brain must be broken because he can’t sit still and manipulate tiny numbers as much as he wants. How come this is so hard for him, when all of his colleagues can work so diligently?
The entire piece is worth reading.
https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo...
>I didn’t realize how much of a psychiatrist’s time was spent gatekeeping Adderall.
>The human brain wasn’t built for accounting or software engineering. A few lucky people can do these things ten hours a day, every day, with a smile. The rest of us start fidgeting and checking our cell phone somewhere around the thirty minute mark. I work near the financial district of a big city, so every day a new Senior Regional Manipulator Of Tiny Numbers comes in and tells me that his brain must be broken because he can’t sit still and manipulate tiny numbers as much as he wants. How come this is so hard for him, when all of his colleagues can work so diligently?
The entire piece is worth reading.
inb4 SO starts prescribing ADHD meds
That would be far superior to the current option in many places where one has to to pay the shrink every month to renew, on top of paying for the prescription to be filled lol.
m3sh(7)
_Super_ unpopular opinion; I think ADHD is largely a scam, as this guy claims:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/big-pharma-s-manu...
People react very strongly to this view. I have a theory on why that is, but won't rile you up even further by posting it.
I'm not trying to be controversial, but American pharmaceutical companies have started lobbying European countries governments to get kids diagnosed early with ADHD (as it is in America), and it's terrifying. Teachers are just letting it happen, because; surprise! little Timmy is so much better behaved now that he's on pills, and dealing with 30 kids is hard.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/big-pharma-s-manu...
People react very strongly to this view. I have a theory on why that is, but won't rile you up even further by posting it.
I'm not trying to be controversial, but American pharmaceutical companies have started lobbying European countries governments to get kids diagnosed early with ADHD (as it is in America), and it's terrifying. Teachers are just letting it happen, because; surprise! little Timmy is so much better behaved now that he's on pills, and dealing with 30 kids is hard.
What the article says is that he thinks it is overdiagnosed, not that it is a scam. This may or may not be true, it's hard to tell. With ADHD, as with autism, there is likely a spectrum. And given that stimulant drugs show some benefits to almost everybody, where do you draw the line between "needs them to function normally" and "needs them to function optimally"?
Over-diagnosed, yup I'd agree with that, but I'd stick to my original "mostly a scam" statement.
The pharmaceutical companies have taken a real disease, and spun it into a scam where they're pushing for wider and wider definitions for diagnosis.
It's happening in Europe right now, but it's more apparent for those watching because we're not used to this frankly evil practice over here. And it is evil, because you're essentially getting kids as young as five hooked on speed.
The pharmaceutical companies have taken a real disease, and spun it into a scam where they're pushing for wider and wider definitions for diagnosis.
It's happening in Europe right now, but it's more apparent for those watching because we're not used to this frankly evil practice over here. And it is evil, because you're essentially getting kids as young as five hooked on speed.
You have endless areas to noodle on solutions to avoid issues; you work hard to avoid working hard (strong ADHD trait) and interruptions are either fine and they fuel you completely: or you cannot work with interruptions at all.
Anecdotally: I was a sysadmin (that coded) and I got pretty close to an ADHD diagnosis but was warned off of it by the Swedish health authority (I've talked about it before on HN; basically that my insurances would increase and it could affect mortgages, cannot hold certain vehicle licenses etc;).