Ask HN: How do you prevent nerve injuries from computer work?
14 comments
Personally, having an ergonomic workspace works the best for me. I used to get pain in my neck, shoulders, wrists, and even the joints in my hands. Everyone is different. Here is what I recommend and do myself.
* Get a good chair. I bought a secondhand Herman Miller Mirra chair from an office furniture liquidator.
* Buy a sit/stand desk. I have one and while I rarely use it in the standing configuration, the easy control over the hight of my desk is very useful.
* Go tenkeyless. Full-size keyboards require you to move your arm to reach the mouse and put force you to work in awkward positions. For me, getting a Kinesis Advantage2 LF keyboard was the most important improvement I made. I can never go back to any other kind of keyboard now. I also bought an external tenkey pad that keep on the left side of my keyboard to minimize arm movement.
* Use a trackpad instead of a mouse. This might not apply to everyone, but I tend to grip a mouse too firmly and it causes pain in my fingers and wrist. I tried a Logitec trackman, which is an improvement, but I get pain in my thumb. What works best for me is an Apple Magic trackpad.
* Do you work on on monitor and have it sitting directly in front of you. Make sure it is adjustable. Extra monitors mean you have to turn your head to use them. I use my laptop display as an extra monitor and only put things that I check infrequently and need to interact with little on that display while working.
* This one might be unpopular, but learn the VIM keybindings and use them in your IDE. This will reduce how often you need to use the mouse once you get the hang of it.
Last but not least, work from home. Every employer I have had, big and small, had sorry excuses for ergonomic office equipment. Getting something better always seems to involve some kind of political drama. I'm much happier with my personal equipment that suits my needs.
* Get a good chair. I bought a secondhand Herman Miller Mirra chair from an office furniture liquidator.
* Buy a sit/stand desk. I have one and while I rarely use it in the standing configuration, the easy control over the hight of my desk is very useful.
* Go tenkeyless. Full-size keyboards require you to move your arm to reach the mouse and put force you to work in awkward positions. For me, getting a Kinesis Advantage2 LF keyboard was the most important improvement I made. I can never go back to any other kind of keyboard now. I also bought an external tenkey pad that keep on the left side of my keyboard to minimize arm movement.
* Use a trackpad instead of a mouse. This might not apply to everyone, but I tend to grip a mouse too firmly and it causes pain in my fingers and wrist. I tried a Logitec trackman, which is an improvement, but I get pain in my thumb. What works best for me is an Apple Magic trackpad.
* Do you work on on monitor and have it sitting directly in front of you. Make sure it is adjustable. Extra monitors mean you have to turn your head to use them. I use my laptop display as an extra monitor and only put things that I check infrequently and need to interact with little on that display while working.
* This one might be unpopular, but learn the VIM keybindings and use them in your IDE. This will reduce how often you need to use the mouse once you get the hang of it.
Last but not least, work from home. Every employer I have had, big and small, had sorry excuses for ergonomic office equipment. Getting something better always seems to involve some kind of political drama. I'm much happier with my personal equipment that suits my needs.
OP this is the way. I’ve landed on all these same things. Will add a few more that you can’t buy , but should do to stay healthy:
1. Immediately attend to discomfort. This is your body telling you it’s hurt. Trying to power through it is going to risk more injury. Once you’re hurt the road to recovery is long and prone to re-injury.
2. Take breaks. Do some light stretching before and while you work. Less intensive, but more frequent gentle stretching has worked better for me.
3. Drink water. Take it easy on caffeine and booze.
Inflammatory response is complex. Do everything you can to avoid it. In my experience, long term use of anti inflammatory drugs won’t heal you and will cause other problems.
Inflammatory response is complex. Do everything you can to avoid it. In my experience, long term use of anti inflammatory drugs won’t heal you and will cause other problems.
Different jobs stress different parts of your body. You can't dodge it, but you can find out what stresses your job exposes you to and try to reduce it. For instance, if you stare at screens for long periods, you can ease the strain on your eyes by using dark mode and night shift, and switching to an e-reader for lengthy articles.
But there's one thing that people often overlook, and that's working out to strengthen your back and shoulders. It can work wonders for reducing pain in those areas.
But there's one thing that people often overlook, and that's working out to strengthen your back and shoulders. It can work wonders for reducing pain in those areas.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a doctor.
I've been in tech for a LONG time and have had to deal with the nerve issues you're trying to avoid.
Ergonomics. Pay attention NOW because you choose to, or later because you HAVE to. My personal recommendation, get a split keyboard that has tenting... the one I went with is the ZSA Moonlander.
Movement. Stand, more importantly… WALK. I have a treadmill desk. If you can get that kind of setup, I highly recommend it.
The more sedentary you are, and the more you put/keep pressure on your butt / elbows, the more you're going to be at risk for things like sciatica or ulnar nerve entrapment, or other nerve-related issues.
I've been in tech for a LONG time and have had to deal with the nerve issues you're trying to avoid.
Ergonomics. Pay attention NOW because you choose to, or later because you HAVE to. My personal recommendation, get a split keyboard that has tenting... the one I went with is the ZSA Moonlander.
Movement. Stand, more importantly… WALK. I have a treadmill desk. If you can get that kind of setup, I highly recommend it.
The more sedentary you are, and the more you put/keep pressure on your butt / elbows, the more you're going to be at risk for things like sciatica or ulnar nerve entrapment, or other nerve-related issues.
I work on a keyboard all day for about ten years now,
I got into PC gaming again after work, stopped because i didnt want to sit at a PC after work hours/carpal tunnel symptoms started up.
I got into doing pushups with bad form, stopped because i started getting wrist pain/carparal tunnel stuff from my bad form and then working on a keyboard all day.
To try prevent my desk job from turning me into a human potato:
I try walk before the day starts, run 4 miles at some point during the day, and end the workday with a walk to try keep the blood pumping.
I got into PC gaming again after work, stopped because i didnt want to sit at a PC after work hours/carpal tunnel symptoms started up.
I got into doing pushups with bad form, stopped because i started getting wrist pain/carparal tunnel stuff from my bad form and then working on a keyboard all day.
To try prevent my desk job from turning me into a human potato:
I try walk before the day starts, run 4 miles at some point during the day, and end the workday with a walk to try keep the blood pumping.
I hate to give specific product recommendations because it is very shill-like but: "ELECOM Relacon Handheld Trackball Mouse." [0]
So table-top trackball mice aren't uncommon, and they often come up in these discussions just like "joystick"/Vertical grip mice. I've used both. The main problem with table-top trackball or vertical mice is that they keep your arm and most of your wrist in a similar position only offering mild mitigation.
Where the Relacon shines is that you can keep your hands by the side of your body, and you can use it while standing using a standing desk. It is a completely different body position than a traditional mouse and because it is so different my body feels like I get actual time to HEAL rather than just delaying symptoms.
Like most trackballs it will take you a couple of days to be fully productive with it, and you might need to adjust the speed. In terms of what buttons it has onboard it is fantastic: Browser Back/Forward, a fully functional scroll wheel (inc. click), media keys, and oversized L/R.
I will add that the battery-compartment cover does indeed suck and the stand isn't anything. But otherwise, it is great, and batteries last for months. I'd buy another if it broke tomorrow.
The only other pro-tip I have is: Learn to use your mouse with your non-dominant hand. Then keep switching back and forward every week. It took a while as a righty to use it with my left hand, but now I can switch whenever I wish. YMMV.
PS - And other Handheld Trackball mice exist, you just have to sacrifice something (e.g. no scroll wheel, no back/forward buttons, etc) or the trackball is in a really unnaturally placed. I don't feel like I'm trading anything to use the Relacon.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GSCC8RX
So table-top trackball mice aren't uncommon, and they often come up in these discussions just like "joystick"/Vertical grip mice. I've used both. The main problem with table-top trackball or vertical mice is that they keep your arm and most of your wrist in a similar position only offering mild mitigation.
Where the Relacon shines is that you can keep your hands by the side of your body, and you can use it while standing using a standing desk. It is a completely different body position than a traditional mouse and because it is so different my body feels like I get actual time to HEAL rather than just delaying symptoms.
Like most trackballs it will take you a couple of days to be fully productive with it, and you might need to adjust the speed. In terms of what buttons it has onboard it is fantastic: Browser Back/Forward, a fully functional scroll wheel (inc. click), media keys, and oversized L/R.
I will add that the battery-compartment cover does indeed suck and the stand isn't anything. But otherwise, it is great, and batteries last for months. I'd buy another if it broke tomorrow.
The only other pro-tip I have is: Learn to use your mouse with your non-dominant hand. Then keep switching back and forward every week. It took a while as a righty to use it with my left hand, but now I can switch whenever I wish. YMMV.
PS - And other Handheld Trackball mice exist, you just have to sacrifice something (e.g. no scroll wheel, no back/forward buttons, etc) or the trackball is in a really unnaturally placed. I don't feel like I'm trading anything to use the Relacon.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GSCC8RX
I try to make sure I have the best equipment. (So a comfy ergonomic keyboard, and a good mouse.) When my hands started hurting with one mouse, I switched to a different one. (Basically, just using a different set of muscles for mouse clicks.)
But maybe that's the most important thing: paying attention to your body, and if it hurts, stop, and try to figure out what you're doing. (90% of the time it's a posture thing -- so I can solve it by not sitting in that particular posture.)
If you don't sleep well, you can end up slumping in a bad position which leads to arm pain. So: sleep well. Make sure you eat enough and have enough muscles built up to sustain a healthy posture. Things like that.
But maybe that's the most important thing: paying attention to your body, and if it hurts, stop, and try to figure out what you're doing. (90% of the time it's a posture thing -- so I can solve it by not sitting in that particular posture.)
If you don't sleep well, you can end up slumping in a bad position which leads to arm pain. So: sleep well. Make sure you eat enough and have enough muscles built up to sustain a healthy posture. Things like that.
As others have said, first make sure your posture is correct, keyboard height is correct, you are looking straight out or just slightly down at your monitor, etc. What I did is put my laptop on the desk, blanked the laptop screen, and put an external monitor on a tall clear box that was designed for displaying dolls (I had to order it). Some monitors now have height adjustments.
Next, make sure you are using good, relaxed keyboard technique. I play the piano and the same concepts apply to that. The first rule is, do not stretch your fingers to reach keys. For example, many people hit Backspace with their right pinky and leave their other fingers on JKL. This will cause tension in your fingers, hand, wrist, and forearm. Instead, rotate your wrist to the right and use your ring finger for Backspace. When you do this, your index finger should land lightly on the 0 key. Why not use pinky for Backspace? Because for me at least, that would require moving my entire arm, even involving my shoulder, whereas I can easily reach it with my ring finger just by moving my wrist.
Same principle applies for typing numbers: do not stretch individual fingers up to the number keys and try to keep the rest on the home keys. Instead, move the correct finger to the key you want to hit and let the other fingers follow along in a relaxed way. For example, when I type 8 with my right "tall" finger, my index finger lands between Y and U. If you try doing the same thing while holding fingers on JL; you will feel a lot of tension.
As an easy demonstration, hold your hands flat in front of you, parallel to the ground and relaxed. Wiggle your fingers fast and see how comfortable and easy that is. Now stretch your fingers out as forcefully as you can and try to wiggle them. Big difference!
Second rule is, make sure you wrists are not bent. Bent wrists make the carpel tunnel, the thing tendons and nerves run through in your wrist, smaller. This makes it more likely to cause friction and inflammation in your wrist as you move fingers.
Lastly, if you start to feel tightness, tension, fatigue, tingling, etc, STOP AND REST. Maybe run some cool water over your hands and wrists. Don't keep working or you will only hurt yourself.
Next, make sure you are using good, relaxed keyboard technique. I play the piano and the same concepts apply to that. The first rule is, do not stretch your fingers to reach keys. For example, many people hit Backspace with their right pinky and leave their other fingers on JKL. This will cause tension in your fingers, hand, wrist, and forearm. Instead, rotate your wrist to the right and use your ring finger for Backspace. When you do this, your index finger should land lightly on the 0 key. Why not use pinky for Backspace? Because for me at least, that would require moving my entire arm, even involving my shoulder, whereas I can easily reach it with my ring finger just by moving my wrist.
Same principle applies for typing numbers: do not stretch individual fingers up to the number keys and try to keep the rest on the home keys. Instead, move the correct finger to the key you want to hit and let the other fingers follow along in a relaxed way. For example, when I type 8 with my right "tall" finger, my index finger lands between Y and U. If you try doing the same thing while holding fingers on JL; you will feel a lot of tension.
As an easy demonstration, hold your hands flat in front of you, parallel to the ground and relaxed. Wiggle your fingers fast and see how comfortable and easy that is. Now stretch your fingers out as forcefully as you can and try to wiggle them. Big difference!
Second rule is, make sure you wrists are not bent. Bent wrists make the carpel tunnel, the thing tendons and nerves run through in your wrist, smaller. This makes it more likely to cause friction and inflammation in your wrist as you move fingers.
Lastly, if you start to feel tightness, tension, fatigue, tingling, etc, STOP AND REST. Maybe run some cool water over your hands and wrists. Don't keep working or you will only hurt yourself.
Lots of massage with the knuckles of my hands and gua sha helped reverse and stop my carpal tunnel symptoms.
I also have something called The Stick I occasionally use on my arms which helps prevent a lot of the pain I feel on my wrists (since muscles are interconnected and when one group is compromised, another steps in to take its place, even if that's not what it's supposed to do, leading to pain).
I used the same principles to get rid of my plantar fasciitis.
I also have something called The Stick I occasionally use on my arms which helps prevent a lot of the pain I feel on my wrists (since muscles are interconnected and when one group is compromised, another steps in to take its place, even if that's not what it's supposed to do, leading to pain).
I used the same principles to get rid of my plantar fasciitis.
Regular breaks help (but your boss may not like that). Luckily I work from home with no 'tattleware' installed so they can't spy on my working habits. I also have two 'Spring Grip' fitness tools for building strength in my hands. Vertical mouses help too, aswell as a really good keyboard you enjoy using. I prefer the Apple low profile/short travel wired keyboard.
Frequent breaks is probably #1 for me.
With regard to hand and forearm RSI, I have found that experience with a piano helps encourage good form. It's also a fantastic way to take a break from coding.
Heavy weight training is probably also a good idea. The human body is 1 big system. Deadlifts and squats will do wonders for weird pains everywhere.
With regard to hand and forearm RSI, I have found that experience with a piano helps encourage good form. It's also a fantastic way to take a break from coding.
Heavy weight training is probably also a good idea. The human body is 1 big system. Deadlifts and squats will do wonders for weird pains everywhere.
Lifting some weights. It will exercise your muscles in other ways and build up some strength. Some simple weights will do, no need for any fancy setups. If you work from home, it is easy to take a 5 minute break and do it.
Good ergonomics and strength exercices especially for the back.
Laptop are really bad to use other than for short stints.
Exercises that made a huge difference: squats, lunges, some basic weight lifting, and basic yoga.
Long hours developer for ~8 years here. And "computer worker" for maybe 15 years.
So, as for many of you I guess; fingers, hands and wrists are indispensable and amazing tools.
Maybe like some of you as well, I sometimes get strange feelings (tickling, tingling, sometimes pain, not sure of the proper words) in my fingers, wrist, elbows, nerves. And it scares me.
Have you found good and sound exercises, habits, or things to do to prevent injuries?
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and such scare the shit out of me!