Generate a Cover Letter by Pasting the Job Post and Your Resume(careered.ai)
careered.ai
Generate a Cover Letter by Pasting the Job Post and Your Resume
https://www.careered.ai/tool/cover-letter
150 comments
Dear John,
Thank you for your application for the Expert Contributor role at YCombinator LLC. Your cover letter certainly caught our attention, and we appreciate your enthusiasm and passion for Hacker News.
We were impressed with your track record of consistently producing top-rated comments and your lightning-fast research and fact-checking abilities. Your ability to craft snarky comebacks that engage readers and drive discussions forward is also a valuable skill in the world of tech and startups.
We also took a look at your GitHub page and found some of your latest contributions to be both hilarious and thought-provoking. Your experience as a Cleverest Tech Support Commenter and your ability to write with a hip and snarky voice that resonates with IT enthusiasts is also a valuable asset.
At YCombinator LLC, we are always on the lookout for talented individuals who can help us make our brand go viral, buzzy, and catchy. We believe that your skills and expertise would be a great asset to our team.
We would like to invite you to a virtual interview to discuss your qualifications further. Please let us know if this works for you, and we can arrange a convenient time.
Thank you again for your interest in YCombinator LLC, and we look forward to speaking with you soon.
Sincerely,
An AI at YCombinator
Thank you for your application for the Expert Contributor role at YCombinator LLC. Your cover letter certainly caught our attention, and we appreciate your enthusiasm and passion for Hacker News.
We were impressed with your track record of consistently producing top-rated comments and your lightning-fast research and fact-checking abilities. Your ability to craft snarky comebacks that engage readers and drive discussions forward is also a valuable skill in the world of tech and startups.
We also took a look at your GitHub page and found some of your latest contributions to be both hilarious and thought-provoking. Your experience as a Cleverest Tech Support Commenter and your ability to write with a hip and snarky voice that resonates with IT enthusiasts is also a valuable asset.
At YCombinator LLC, we are always on the lookout for talented individuals who can help us make our brand go viral, buzzy, and catchy. We believe that your skills and expertise would be a great asset to our team.
We would like to invite you to a virtual interview to discuss your qualifications further. Please let us know if this works for you, and we can arrange a convenient time.
Thank you again for your interest in YCombinator LLC, and we look forward to speaking with you soon.
Sincerely,
An AI at YCombinator
So AI resumes and AI cover letters are now being auto-submitted to AI generated automated job postings then parsed by hiring AI. What an absolute circus this is becoming.
As long as the AI hires my wetware neural network for an acceptable salary, I’m game
Has anyone hiring for a company with more than 10 employees in the 21st century even read a cover letter?
And if they have, are they stupid enough to actually believe it?
For most people looking for work, rent's due next month, and they are machine-gunning applications, they aren't actually deeply passionate about getting a job at <your particular company>.
And if they have, are they stupid enough to actually believe it?
For most people looking for work, rent's due next month, and they are machine-gunning applications, they aren't actually deeply passionate about getting a job at <your particular company>.
I love cover letters for this reason. It’s easy to tell who is shotgunning and who is thoughtfully applying. I might be lucky in the sense that I still get the latter.
I'm pleased then this will make it harder for you, cover letters and by extensions job application dumb hoops are asymmetric and just plain rude.
I’m not concerned. Rudimentary communication skills are important.
What are the tells of a thoughtful cover letter? Maybe people can incorporate those when asking AI to generate their letter for them.
They're someone who knows you. It's how I've gotten the few jobs I've had since 2001.
Slightly more seriously, if AI makes cutting through the noise of resumes submitted from unknowns even more difficult, maybe people default more and more to hiring people they know--which they already do to a non-trivial degree.
Slightly more seriously, if AI makes cutting through the noise of resumes submitted from unknowns even more difficult, maybe people default more and more to hiring people they know--which they already do to a non-trivial degree.
I feel like you’re right. If generating somewhat convincing nonsense becomes too common, it’ll make too much sense to stick with people you know are verifiable.
This is probably true broadly. To the degree that AI bots overwhelm submission and communication processes in general, people will increasingly say screw it and drop into their networks and private channels.
Hah. “Please make the letter you generate thoughtful. Make up an anecdote that illustrates why I’m uniquely interested in this work.”
Apologies. You deserve a thoughtful answer but I’ve had a day. Maybe others can add in, but the most common one for me is when they bind their qualifications to the role by way of one or two (very) short anecdotes or personal experiences. It also gives me something to ask about that you’re likely comfortable elaborating on. A great ice breaker.
Apologies. You deserve a thoughtful answer but I’ve had a day. Maybe others can add in, but the most common one for me is when they bind their qualifications to the role by way of one or two (very) short anecdotes or personal experiences. It also gives me something to ask about that you’re likely comfortable elaborating on. A great ice breaker.
Don't you think I'd be pretty easy to fool you with ChatGPT?
Agreed, I read all cover letters and so far they contain a good deal of predictive power on how an applicant will do in the interview process.
So you get a kick out of making sure you're not hiring people who really need the work. Nice work, bro.
It’s not a charity. I’m kind of baffled by people who externalize employment like this.
It is not charity, it is an economic transaction.
What I don't get is what benefit does a company get by people pretending that they are applying for anything other than the (total) salary?
What I don't get is what benefit does a company get by people pretending that they are applying for anything other than the (total) salary?
Although salary plays a big part in the transaction, it is not everything.
Many years ago I worked as a hiring manager for a PR firm in India, the cover letter is a very good way to sift out the dedicated candidates from the unfocused.
It also provides us with a unique insight into their psyche, using a combination of NLP and targeted interview questions regarding topics mentioned in the cover letter, we were able to discern potential points of leverage when it comes to salary negotiation. For example, an ideologically driven unior associate will accept a lower yearly salary as long as he's personal ego requirements are fulfilled, thus minimising operational expenditure for the business.
Many years ago I worked as a hiring manager for a PR firm in India, the cover letter is a very good way to sift out the dedicated candidates from the unfocused.
It also provides us with a unique insight into their psyche, using a combination of NLP and targeted interview questions regarding topics mentioned in the cover letter, we were able to discern potential points of leverage when it comes to salary negotiation. For example, an ideologically driven unior associate will accept a lower yearly salary as long as he's personal ego requirements are fulfilled, thus minimising operational expenditure for the business.
This sounds scary accurate, what other insights on “points of leverage” did you uncover?
Didn't say it was. Do you think I'm putting words in your mouth? Or that perhaps I missed some subtle tone?
What's there for you to be baffled about?
What's there for you to be baffled about?
He's talking about what enables him to effectively screen for his role. Your response and a few others are trying to guilt him for screening.
I read them. I don't expect applicants to write them, and if it's a formal letter that they copy-paste around, I skim it and don't really factor it in.
But a lot of times the candidate will say why they are interested in the role (they are passionate about the space, they use the product, etc) and it does give higher intent than just a normal application (which candidates often just spray out).
(I'm at a 20 person company now but read them even at larger companies)
Btw, I do the same when I'm reaching out to a candidate. I'll explain why I'm reaching out and why I think they are a good fit.
But a lot of times the candidate will say why they are interested in the role (they are passionate about the space, they use the product, etc) and it does give higher intent than just a normal application (which candidates often just spray out).
(I'm at a 20 person company now but read them even at larger companies)
Btw, I do the same when I'm reaching out to a candidate. I'll explain why I'm reaching out and why I think they are a good fit.
I was hoping my last targeted cover letter would at least get me a real rejection letter instead of a form letter, but no such luck.
I think that's a fair ask. The hiring manager or recruiter should symmetrically put in as much effort as you did to tour application.
That said, a lot of companies get really high volumes of applicants, and can't always do that.
That said, a lot of companies get really high volumes of applicants, and can't always do that.
I agree with the first statement, but I can't really say the second statement is reasonable. It is the same on the opposite side. Right now, I may have to apply to 100 jobs to get 10 interviews for one to give me an offer. Just as much as companies have to deal with many applicants, most applicants also have to apply to many places. Both have one-to-many relationships.
Yes, I read cover letters.
If you think a successful cover letter talks about being deeply passionate or otherwise over-the-moon about the company, your understanding of what signal they give is misguided in my opinion. I look just for some indication that it’s a human who has even the smallest understanding of our company, and maybe had some connection from their history to our mission. That is still helpful, including for the new developer I just hired two weeks ago.
The cover letter and free-form two questions I ask are, somewhat surprisingly to me, one of the strongest signals in figuring out whether to talk to someone or not. Resumes can list lots of similar skills, but a plain English writing customized for my job application, even if it’s small, tells me oh so much about their priorities, their writing ability, and more.
And I fully understand they’re looking for a job anywhere to pay the bills. Even as a cofounder of a small company, that’s part of why I work, too :)
If you think a successful cover letter talks about being deeply passionate or otherwise over-the-moon about the company, your understanding of what signal they give is misguided in my opinion. I look just for some indication that it’s a human who has even the smallest understanding of our company, and maybe had some connection from their history to our mission. That is still helpful, including for the new developer I just hired two weeks ago.
The cover letter and free-form two questions I ask are, somewhat surprisingly to me, one of the strongest signals in figuring out whether to talk to someone or not. Resumes can list lots of similar skills, but a plain English writing customized for my job application, even if it’s small, tells me oh so much about their priorities, their writing ability, and more.
And I fully understand they’re looking for a job anywhere to pay the bills. Even as a cofounder of a small company, that’s part of why I work, too :)
My old manager at a 150-person company used to do it for experienced candidates. It was shocking to me. I think his idea was that he wanted you to be at least thoughtful enough to say something specific about the job and your experience.
On the other hand my SO got a job at a fortune 200 company out of 1000+ applicants because she was one of the two people who could speak intelligently about the role and what she’d do with it in the initial phone screen. The recruiter was surprised to find someone who even knew what the job posting said.
As another commenter said, it clearly points out many people shotgunning job apps.
Maybe that will change with AI. But I bet there will be pretty easy ways to detect that - if nothing else, during the first step in the hiring process.
Maybe that will change with AI. But I bet there will be pretty easy ways to detect that - if nothing else, during the first step in the hiring process.
In Australia, to keep receiving unemployment benefits, you have to apply for 20 jobs a fortnight (or something like that). So you get a lot of unemployed people shot gunning their resume around to fulfil that requirement ().
Requiring a cover letter becomes a neat shorthand way to filter those legitimately applying and those that aren't. Those seeking to fulfil their 20 applications/fortnight quota don't submit cover letters - they still met their requirement, and I don't waste my time reviewing their CV.
() Even people legitimately seeking jobs would do this. They would spam out their resume to 12-15 jobs, and then with the time saved, they would use that to 'properly' apply for the handful of jobs they were seriously considering.
Requiring a cover letter becomes a neat shorthand way to filter those legitimately applying and those that aren't. Those seeking to fulfil their 20 applications/fortnight quota don't submit cover letters - they still met their requirement, and I don't waste my time reviewing their CV.
() Even people legitimately seeking jobs would do this. They would spam out their resume to 12-15 jobs, and then with the time saved, they would use that to 'properly' apply for the handful of jobs they were seriously considering.
Happened to me over 10 years ago - rejection letter had this extra sentence at the end: "In addition, I really love your cover letter". The company back then had about 1000 employees, but it was for a position in a remote office which was probably very small.
Regarding "are they stupid enough to actually believe it" - I don't know, but what do people usually write in cover letters? When I wrote it - it was basically CV, just in text form instead of bullet points. But then _lying_ in cover letter is basically the same as lying on CV, no? Or, if companies tend to believe CVs, I would expect them to at least _pretend_ to believe cover letters, too.
Regarding "are they stupid enough to actually believe it" - I don't know, but what do people usually write in cover letters? When I wrote it - it was basically CV, just in text form instead of bullet points. But then _lying_ in cover letter is basically the same as lying on CV, no? Or, if companies tend to believe CVs, I would expect them to at least _pretend_ to believe cover letters, too.
I'm applying for places now. I have a cut-and-paste cover letter that I slightly alter between jobs.
Realistically though I'm applying for jobs that match my skills (more or less). It would be nice if you company is cool and saving the world but I've found that most of the time I get a job and then get passionate about the industry.
Even when the company is cool they are the 4th great place I've applied to and the first 3 I struck out at.
It's always the boring banks and such that ask you the "What attracted you to apply here?".
Realistically though I'm applying for jobs that match my skills (more or less). It would be nice if you company is cool and saving the world but I've found that most of the time I get a job and then get passionate about the industry.
Even when the company is cool they are the 4th great place I've applied to and the first 3 I struck out at.
It's always the boring banks and such that ask you the "What attracted you to apply here?".
Depends on the position. 90%+ of the people I interview for an experienced software engineer role are currently employed.
This was already the grift.. ATS system doing keyword match building short lists from scanning resumes.
It's a bad usage of technology, in part. What's the ethical violation, here? Opposite of Consequentialism, at the least.
Related tangent, harming the sick:
Healthcare expense reimbursement denial by software, decisions "blessed" by Doctor at 60,000 diagnoses rejected per month.
- https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health...
Related tangent, harming the sick:
Healthcare expense reimbursement denial by software, decisions "blessed" by Doctor at 60,000 diagnoses rejected per month.
- https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health...
Health insurance business, at least the way it's run in the US, is evil IMO. It's a race to the bottom with the most profitable insurance being the one that can bully their way into denying the most claims.
Most of the AI implementation in the US bakes in various illegal practices and basically AI washes them.
Actually, this is an excellent development! The job posting, resume + cover letter dance has been an integral part of bullshit work for decades. Why not offload it all to a machine? The results will be roughly the same since it's essentially an overly complicated encoding mechanism for the initial stages of formalized employment negotiations.
It certainly will make the hiring part of the work a little more difficult.
Previously this step could be used as a filter, but now all the letters are going to be good which means the hiring part has just become a little more difficult.
Is this a good thing? I guess?
Previously this step could be used as a filter, but now all the letters are going to be good which means the hiring part has just become a little more difficult.
Is this a good thing? I guess?
Applicants don’t want to write them, hiring managers don’t want to read them. Applicants want to signal and hiring managers want to be signaled.
I really hope AI cover letters finally put an end to this nonsense.
I really hope AI cover letters finally put an end to this nonsense.
It's okay. Nobody's hiring anyway. Positions are 'open' to show a company is still viable. Good luck getting even interviewed.
I just wrote about something similar:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35307441
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35307441
Might as well have AI apply for and do these jobs to complete the circle.
Pretty soon all developers basically have avatars that they manage that perform their jobs.
That will last about a week until someone pitches "Avatar as a Subscription Service" to manage it for you.
Don’t forget the interview.
Until both the recruiter and software engineer become obsolete.
I wonder what I would think of a candidate who submits a computer-generated text for me to read, especially when the input is not even human bullet points but just the job post and the resume.
We don't have any formal process for hiring (we're <10 FTE) so whether you add a cover letter is up to you, but if you submit one and I spend my time evaluating your message, and it turns out you had an unrelated third party bullshitting me from the first to the last word, I expect this is not going to go over well.
As an IT person, I do have to commend the automation, though. There are pros and cons to weigh as you use this.
We don't have any formal process for hiring (we're <10 FTE) so whether you add a cover letter is up to you, but if you submit one and I spend my time evaluating your message, and it turns out you had an unrelated third party bullshitting me from the first to the last word, I expect this is not going to go over well.
As an IT person, I do have to commend the automation, though. There are pros and cons to weigh as you use this.
Assuming they give it a once over sanity check, who cares? Hiring is already a smoke and mirrors game where job seekers have zero insight into what is happening behind the scenes.
Is the job posting real? Has it already been promised to someone's buddy? Is the job real, but significantly below market rate? Will this be pre-screened by HR looking for magical keyword X else it gets thrown in the bin? Has John Carmack already applied, and I would be wasting my time? Is the job real, but it will take six weeks before someone deign acknowledges I applied?
Is the job posting real? Has it already been promised to someone's buddy? Is the job real, but significantly below market rate? Will this be pre-screened by HR looking for magical keyword X else it gets thrown in the bin? Has John Carmack already applied, and I would be wasting my time? Is the job real, but it will take six weeks before someone deign acknowledges I applied?
If they actually proofread or edit it, how are you going to know? How is it any worse than some job coach formulaically writing it based on the job description and resume? Cover letters are ignored all the time, and generally just serve to add as friction to reduce candidates.
> If they actually proofread or edit it, how are you going to know?
Then it's not just autogenerated: apparently it's what they actually mean to say because they've read it (also: equal time spent compared to me) and still sent it. The problem is that the receiving party cannot know whether that's the case upon receipt if the "this was automatically generated" alert triggers.
> How is it any worse than some job coach formulaically writing it based on the job description and resume?
Someone else doing your applications for you would send a similar message I think, but then you can't just send out 100 in an automated fashion and waste a ton of time (unless you're rich I guess, but then you'd be better off with index investments). I do find it hard to say for sure how I will feel in what-if situations without having been in them.
> Cover letters are ignored all the time, and generally just serve to add as friction to reduce candidates.
Not my experience, but as I wrote in another subthread: the application process may be different in NL/DE versus whereever OP lives, or for my line of work compared to theirs. I wouldn't submit a plain CV without writing a few sentences on why I'm applying regardless of whether that's explicitly stated as required by the receiving company.
Then it's not just autogenerated: apparently it's what they actually mean to say because they've read it (also: equal time spent compared to me) and still sent it. The problem is that the receiving party cannot know whether that's the case upon receipt if the "this was automatically generated" alert triggers.
> How is it any worse than some job coach formulaically writing it based on the job description and resume?
Someone else doing your applications for you would send a similar message I think, but then you can't just send out 100 in an automated fashion and waste a ton of time (unless you're rich I guess, but then you'd be better off with index investments). I do find it hard to say for sure how I will feel in what-if situations without having been in them.
> Cover letters are ignored all the time, and generally just serve to add as friction to reduce candidates.
Not my experience, but as I wrote in another subthread: the application process may be different in NL/DE versus whereever OP lives, or for my line of work compared to theirs. I wouldn't submit a plain CV without writing a few sentences on why I'm applying regardless of whether that's explicitly stated as required by the receiving company.
wonder what applicants think of employers that just use keyword search to filter their cover letters and resumes
The answer you're obviously looking to get is "the same", and indeed, I probably wouldn't enjoy working in a place that can't be bothered to have a human read invited human-submitted text.
> what would think of a candidate who submits a computer-generated text for me to read
how would you know?
how would you know?
I'm not involved in my current company's hiring process, but in past companies I just skipped the cover letter.
It doesn't say anything useful anyway.
It doesn't say anything useful anyway.
This is so funny, I was just doing this with ChatGPT to apply for jobs. If you make me fill out a bullshit form where I fake being passionate about your company, I’m going to get a chatbot to write it for me. End of story. I just need a job, why do you care if I’m passionate about building CRUD apps for you?
This is how I feel.
I am a pretty hard to read person. I don't excited about switching jobs even if its for more money. I generally have a monotone voice when interviewing.
Some time ago, after an interview I aced, the recruiter called me and asked "why I don't seem to be interested in the position". I was like what? Apparently, because I didn't sound excited about working for an insurance company they were on the fence. The manager I interviewed with at the end was obnoxious, saying things straight from a script. I don't think I can work with people who act like "excited puppies". I'm a damn adult just trying to program and learn new stuff, but mostly put money in my bank.
Maybe I would be excited about working for some space program......but even then there is always the day to day.
I am a pretty hard to read person. I don't excited about switching jobs even if its for more money. I generally have a monotone voice when interviewing.
Some time ago, after an interview I aced, the recruiter called me and asked "why I don't seem to be interested in the position". I was like what? Apparently, because I didn't sound excited about working for an insurance company they were on the fence. The manager I interviewed with at the end was obnoxious, saying things straight from a script. I don't think I can work with people who act like "excited puppies". I'm a damn adult just trying to program and learn new stuff, but mostly put money in my bank.
Maybe I would be excited about working for some space program......but even then there is always the day to day.
> I just need a job, why do you care if I’m passionate about building CRUD apps for you?
Because people that lack passion for their work cut corners to avoid doing it.
Because people that lack passion for their work cut corners to avoid doing it.
I'm not convinced of that, there's lots of people who are diligent but quiet about it. Passion works great in some job contexts, in others it can lead to exploitation, cult-like behavior, groupthink that results in a terrible product etc.
Obviously you want staff that like their work enough to be fully engaged with it, but fake passion is bullshit that's often foisted on us by marketing/HR drones. Think of how people who work at Subway stores are called 'sandwich artists' when the reality is that they'd probably be fired if they deviate even slightly from the approved recipe.
I don't want to work with people who are primarily driven by passion tbh, because they're likely to either burn out or be intransigent when there's a difference of opinion. I just want people to be friendly and not robots.
Obviously you want staff that like their work enough to be fully engaged with it, but fake passion is bullshit that's often foisted on us by marketing/HR drones. Think of how people who work at Subway stores are called 'sandwich artists' when the reality is that they'd probably be fired if they deviate even slightly from the approved recipe.
I don't want to work with people who are primarily driven by passion tbh, because they're likely to either burn out or be intransigent when there's a difference of opinion. I just want people to be friendly and not robots.
I think the opposite applies here - they want “passionate” people because they’re the ones that will work > 40 hours for free.
In my current role, I have to sometimes write T-SQL or PL/SQL stored procedures in 80's/90's tech, sometimes scripts in Groovy, sometimes starightforward Java and sometimes code that interacts with relatively more modern tech like Kafka. Do I prefer some over others? Yes. Do I spend equal amount of care towards quality of code? Also yes.
A good programmer will always try to do a good job irrespective of their level of passion with the stuff they are working on. Does enjoying a specific piece of work more produce better code? Maybe because I would have more fun writing it. But I doubt most of us gets to do the exciting work everyday. Ironically, if you are relying that much on passion, you might get those who cut corners on unexciting work. Rely instead on good programming skills coupled with professionalism.
A good programmer will always try to do a good job irrespective of their level of passion with the stuff they are working on. Does enjoying a specific piece of work more produce better code? Maybe because I would have more fun writing it. But I doubt most of us gets to do the exciting work everyday. Ironically, if you are relying that much on passion, you might get those who cut corners on unexciting work. Rely instead on good programming skills coupled with professionalism.
I think it is the opposite, actually.
A professional gets shit done. With my higher experience, I have a better understanding of what provides business value and don't work on it more than that, because it is not valuable.
I am passionated about technology, programming and system design. I have about zero passion for writing documentation and good pull requests - but I do it anyway, and I like to think I do it well.
If I only did the parts of my job I had passion for, I wouldn't be a very good employee. If people only worked for companies they were passioned about most companies would have so much more trouble hiring (who is passionate about working for Wells Fargo? Doing SCADA work for a flour factory?).
A professional gets shit done. With my higher experience, I have a better understanding of what provides business value and don't work on it more than that, because it is not valuable.
I am passionated about technology, programming and system design. I have about zero passion for writing documentation and good pull requests - but I do it anyway, and I like to think I do it well.
If I only did the parts of my job I had passion for, I wouldn't be a very good employee. If people only worked for companies they were passioned about most companies would have so much more trouble hiring (who is passionate about working for Wells Fargo? Doing SCADA work for a flour factory?).
Passionate people can cut corners because they want to see results.
If you want everything done "by the book", you want a pedantic anal retentive asshole. Unfortunately I never see that in job descriptions.
If you want everything done "by the book", you want a pedantic anal retentive asshole. Unfortunately I never see that in job descriptions.
What would be an example of a non-bullshit form?
Her is the example:
We at company XXX are building a solution that does a,b,c.
We want senior level programmer with a preference given to a candidates having these specific skills / domain knowledge.
The job is in the office, (no) need to travel. Requires (or not) clearance / degree / license / etc.
We pay this much (range is ok) and offering such and such benefits.
Please explain why you are a good candidate for this job.
Skip enthusiastic, passionate, hard working, woke, tolerant, etc. etc. bullshit because everyone is asking the same crappy questions here and gets the same crappy answers and it is all meaningless.
We at company XXX are building a solution that does a,b,c.
We want senior level programmer with a preference given to a candidates having these specific skills / domain knowledge.
The job is in the office, (no) need to travel. Requires (or not) clearance / degree / license / etc.
We pay this much (range is ok) and offering such and such benefits.
Please explain why you are a good candidate for this job.
Skip enthusiastic, passionate, hard working, woke, tolerant, etc. etc. bullshit because everyone is asking the same crappy questions here and gets the same crappy answers and it is all meaningless.
We don’t require cover letters, but a lot of people send them anyway. Many of them are useless boilerplate. Even before ChatGPT, you could tell that a lot of people looked up generic cover letter boilerplate and treated it like a mad libs where they filled in the company name and job position.
I wish more people knew just how low the bar was for writing a decent cover letter. You don’t need to spend hours researching the company or choosing the perfect prose. Just a few short sentences that add some context to your application that might not be fully captured in a resume format can make a huge difference.
The weirdest part is that when you get people into a conversation, like on the initial phone call, they can usually come up with a quick elevator pitch for themselves on the spot that would have been great cover letter material. Yet there’s something about the cover letter format that makes some people clam up and get writer’s block. Or they just hate the idea of writing something for someone else to read, so they don’t put any effort in.
Regardless, I don’t think ChatGPT generated cover letters are going to push this ahead. The samples look like it’s yet another ChatGPT style generically safe output. I also feel like I’m rapidly getting good at sensing ChatGPT style writing.
I wish more people knew just how low the bar was for writing a decent cover letter. You don’t need to spend hours researching the company or choosing the perfect prose. Just a few short sentences that add some context to your application that might not be fully captured in a resume format can make a huge difference.
The weirdest part is that when you get people into a conversation, like on the initial phone call, they can usually come up with a quick elevator pitch for themselves on the spot that would have been great cover letter material. Yet there’s something about the cover letter format that makes some people clam up and get writer’s block. Or they just hate the idea of writing something for someone else to read, so they don’t put any effort in.
Regardless, I don’t think ChatGPT generated cover letters are going to push this ahead. The samples look like it’s yet another ChatGPT style generically safe output. I also feel like I’m rapidly getting good at sensing ChatGPT style writing.
> Just a few short sentences that add some context to your application that might not be fully captured in a resume format can make a huge difference.
“I’m applying for this internship because I have already done Java in class and that’s where I want to spend my career”
That would be 4 lines more than all my internship applicants.
“I’m applying for this internship because I have already done Java in class and that’s where I want to spend my career”
That would be 4 lines more than all my internship applicants.
Yep. The bar is so incredibly low for communication.
I know job searching isn’t fun, but it’s shocking to see how some candidates act like they can’t be bothered to even have simple person-to-person discussion about their application or career interests or write even a simple written description.
I know job searching isn’t fun, but it’s shocking to see how some candidates act like they can’t be bothered to even have simple person-to-person discussion about their application or career interests or write even a simple written description.
1. Alice turns a concise summary into corporate bullshit using AI and sends it to Bob.
2. Bob uses AI to convert Alice's corporate bullshit into concise summary.
2. Bob uses AI to convert Alice's corporate bullshit into concise summary.
[deleted]
This just devalues cover letters. As a hiring manager I am strongly motivated to avoid channels which would cause me to wade through a bunch of fake crap. If there turns out to be no way to filter out AI generated text, we will end up that you have to attend an in person interview at some intermediary whose job is just to verify that you are a human being and you have some idea what the job ad said.
If the main reason you’re making me write a cover letter is to verify that I am human and know what the job description said, you don’t deserve anything better than LLM generated.
We don't make people write them presently, but the occasional one can be good way to clarify why a person fits the role especially if their CV isn't quite an obvious match. If they will be generated by AI then I won't have time to go through them.
My bigger worry is that we will start getting AI generated CVs. If we have to ignore CVs then there will be no alternative to paying middlemen.
My bigger worry is that we will start getting AI generated CVs. If we have to ignore CVs then there will be no alternative to paying middlemen.
> This just devalues cover letters.
They already are very low signal.
> we will end up that you have to attend an in person interview at some intermediary
So like a recruiting agency that does pre-screening? That is a thing already.
They already are very low signal.
> we will end up that you have to attend an in person interview at some intermediary
So like a recruiting agency that does pre-screening? That is a thing already.
>They already are very low signal.
This must vary a lot on context. For the hiring I've done, they're usually a 'low signal' only because they are so uniformly poor. I do read them, and a cogent, original letter immediately stands out.
This must vary a lot on context. For the hiring I've done, they're usually a 'low signal' only because they are so uniformly poor. I do read them, and a cogent, original letter immediately stands out.
> They already are very low signal.
by no means - when i was doing hiring (not now) cover letter was almost always the most important thing. the cv says what you have done, the cover says what you want to do.
> So like a recruiting agency that does pre-screening? That is a thing already.
and a very bad thing - i do not want possible good candidates screened out by some chinless-wonder in an agency.
by no means - when i was doing hiring (not now) cover letter was almost always the most important thing. the cv says what you have done, the cover says what you want to do.
> So like a recruiting agency that does pre-screening? That is a thing already.
and a very bad thing - i do not want possible good candidates screened out by some chinless-wonder in an agency.
I would not be inclined to use AI for this sort of thing, but it's a two-way street. but I can think of many hours spent writing carefully crafted introductory letters only to receive a form letter or nothing at all in return.
In the context of job applications, think how many recruitment ads are just a collection of buzzwords and happy talk, while omitting crucial information like pay etc. HR departments are notorious for their low quality of communication.
In the context of job applications, think how many recruitment ads are just a collection of buzzwords and happy talk, while omitting crucial information like pay etc. HR departments are notorious for their low quality of communication.
> I can think of many hours spent writing carefully crafted introductory letters only to receive a form letter or nothing at all in return.
yes, well, stuff happens. still, i don't think you can beat a good covering letter.
> In the context of job applications, think how many recruitment ads are just a collection of buzzwords and happy talk
which is why i hated using agencies.
my favorite interview memory was (for a c++ role) with a guy who had a degree in ancient greek (anyone fluent in ancient languages seems brilliant to me, as i only have a bit of schoolboy french). anyway, this was for a big 6 accountancy firm, and us programmers had to pass the same IQ tests that the accountants did, adminstered by HR. i amazed them by 100% on the visual/spaciel test - HR girl: "golly, no one has done that before!" though what accountants were to be expected to do with this skill i have no idea.
anyway, the guy we were interviewing was given the test papers and a pencil by the HR girl and left him to do it. 5 minutes later he came out of the interview room (i'll call him A):
HR: sorry is there a problem?
A: i've lost my pencil
note this was a very small room.
but once provided with another pencil, he did a pretty good job.
then he got the techie interview stuff with me (project manager/architect) and J (tech lead). this went well - he obviously knew his stuff. but then he offered to show some of his code for his current project:
me/J: cool
A: [searches through briefcase] oh, oh god, where is it???
me/J: collapse laughing
and we hired him. and he was great.
sorry this went on a bit, i had forgot and just rembered. this was about 30 years ago
yes, well, stuff happens. still, i don't think you can beat a good covering letter.
> In the context of job applications, think how many recruitment ads are just a collection of buzzwords and happy talk
which is why i hated using agencies.
my favorite interview memory was (for a c++ role) with a guy who had a degree in ancient greek (anyone fluent in ancient languages seems brilliant to me, as i only have a bit of schoolboy french). anyway, this was for a big 6 accountancy firm, and us programmers had to pass the same IQ tests that the accountants did, adminstered by HR. i amazed them by 100% on the visual/spaciel test - HR girl: "golly, no one has done that before!" though what accountants were to be expected to do with this skill i have no idea.
anyway, the guy we were interviewing was given the test papers and a pencil by the HR girl and left him to do it. 5 minutes later he came out of the interview room (i'll call him A):
HR: sorry is there a problem?
A: i've lost my pencil
note this was a very small room.
but once provided with another pencil, he did a pretty good job.
then he got the techie interview stuff with me (project manager/architect) and J (tech lead). this went well - he obviously knew his stuff. but then he offered to show some of his code for his current project:
me/J: cool
A: [searches through briefcase] oh, oh god, where is it???
me/J: collapse laughing
and we hired him. and he was great.
sorry this went on a bit, i had forgot and just rembered. this was about 30 years ago
Yeah, but recruiting agencies suck. Anything that causes more reliance on recruiters is bad for both employers and applicants.
I think ChatGPT is going to remove the value from a lot of roles and tasks.
If it can be done by ChatGPT .. there's no point in the ritual; we'll most likely end up scrapping it.
No cover letters. No marketing fluff. No library photography. Less hiring. Less jobs.
If it can be done by ChatGPT .. there's no point in the ritual; we'll most likely end up scrapping it.
No cover letters. No marketing fluff. No library photography. Less hiring. Less jobs.
It will be interesting to see how ChatGPT interacts with BS jobs. Could go a lot of ways. One interesting scenario is if humans to finally accept that if you have a big population in a technologically advanced society, the demand for human labor is going to drop, while the supply increases. The only real jobs are those that require rare talent, on a power law dist. The best they can do is no negative contribution. NPCs just live, reproduce, and then see if their kids can do better. In general, this process will continue until ALL humans have BS jobs, or no jobs. So it's good to deal with it now.
Personally, I like the UBI idea.
Personally, I like the UBI idea.
Seems to me that plumbing would be one job that will very difficult to automate. Might be possible some day but it's going to be very tough to do. So if you want a job that probably won't be automated in your lifetime that would be one to consider.
Cutting hair .. I think this is probably the one.
So many jobs just exist to make money.
I'm praying that humans have the ability to think more about meaningful purpose.
I'm praying that humans have the ability to think more about meaningful purpose.
As a person who has put a lot of heart and creativity into cover letters for select companies I was very interested in and received form letters declining my candidacy -- I think the process devalues cover letters more than any tool like this (or even the templates that have existed prior).
> This just devalues cover letters.
Low-effort cover letters have been around forever.
As far as I'm seeing, this is just another tool to provide boilerplate cover letters where people lack communication ability to write their own.
As a hiring manager, the majority of cover letters I already receive are basically worthless. You can tell when someone is writing a cover letter because they think they have to, or when someone is writing a cover letter because they've actually thought about how to communicate something to the hiring manager.
Most of the boilerplate cover letters communicate basically nothing useful, and I end up ignoring them after the first read through.
When people make an effort, though, I make sure to carry the cover letter through the interview process so we can all collect the additional context as we interview the candidate.
Low-effort cover letters have been around forever.
As far as I'm seeing, this is just another tool to provide boilerplate cover letters where people lack communication ability to write their own.
As a hiring manager, the majority of cover letters I already receive are basically worthless. You can tell when someone is writing a cover letter because they think they have to, or when someone is writing a cover letter because they've actually thought about how to communicate something to the hiring manager.
Most of the boilerplate cover letters communicate basically nothing useful, and I end up ignoring them after the first read through.
When people make an effort, though, I make sure to carry the cover letter through the interview process so we can all collect the additional context as we interview the candidate.
People who will cheat the written portion of the hiring process already do so without automation, by plagiarizing others resume and cover letters or by farming out the work to someone else.
That sounds like an improvement
Realise that this means more recruiters and it being a hugely valuable service all of a sudden, whereas today it is maybe neutral on the average (helpful for some, annoying for most). Since random strangers on the internet couldn't be trusted in this possible scenario, recruiting firms could be the ones to build up reputations of having suitable/legitimate candidates. You might not realistically be able to get around them.
More middle (wo)men does not sound like an improvement. But to be fair, I don't really know what the deal is with cover letters. When applying to a job, I always write some text in the email that explains why I can do that job and why I'm interested at all, it's not like I just drop my CV on an email address and trust the recipient to take it from there. The application process may be different in NL/DE versus whereever OP lives, or for my line of work compared to theirs.
More middle (wo)men does not sound like an improvement. But to be fair, I don't really know what the deal is with cover letters. When applying to a job, I always write some text in the email that explains why I can do that job and why I'm interested at all, it's not like I just drop my CV on an email address and trust the recipient to take it from there. The application process may be different in NL/DE versus whereever OP lives, or for my line of work compared to theirs.
> This just devalues cover letters
cover letters are already dead a waste of time
For technical hires I'd be looking at their interests i.e. github likes on followed projects, created works, etc.
This makes for good conversation in interviews are gets to the point of seeing if their a good fit.
For technical hires I'd be looking at their interests i.e. github likes on followed projects, created works, etc.
This makes for good conversation in interviews are gets to the point of seeing if their a good fit.
Ask your HR Director what share of non-mass hiring hires were made in the last year from responses to job postings. I guarantee it will be less than 20%.
This is why the cold job search process is so awful. No one cares about the least efficient channel. It should be the last resort in your job search, and it’s absolutely fair to try and game this broken system with a cover letter generator.
This is why the cold job search process is so awful. No one cares about the least efficient channel. It should be the last resort in your job search, and it’s absolutely fair to try and game this broken system with a cover letter generator.
I already did this with ChatGPT straight up though, and there I can adjust and specify parameters as I wish, why would I use this instead?
Dear Hiring Manager,
I am excited to apply for the OpenAI Research Residency program as a Research Resident. As a software engineer with experience in building scalable systems in the fintech, health, and adult entertainment industries, I believe I have the skills and expertise required to excel in this role. I am particularly drawn to the opportunity to work on real, cutting-edge AI problems and advance the research agenda of the team.
I have a strong math background and proficiency in programming languages such as JavaScript, TypeScript, Node.js, React AI, and C++. I have also published research in the STEM field, created large software systems, and authored highly cited publications. Moreover, I am a self-starter who is motivated to discover AI breakthroughs and their potential benefits to humanity. I am excited to immerse myself in the fundamentals of machine learning and work closely with a team of machine learning researchers to build AI systems that can perform previously impossible tasks.
I am available and interested in joining OpenAI full-time after completing the Residency, and I am willing to relocate to San Francisco if required. I believe I can contribute to OpenAI's mission and help shape the future of technology. Thank you for considering my application. I look forward to the opportunity to discuss my qualifications further.
Sincerely, Angelina Lee
I am excited to apply for the OpenAI Research Residency program as a Research Resident. As a software engineer with experience in building scalable systems in the fintech, health, and adult entertainment industries, I believe I have the skills and expertise required to excel in this role. I am particularly drawn to the opportunity to work on real, cutting-edge AI problems and advance the research agenda of the team.
I have a strong math background and proficiency in programming languages such as JavaScript, TypeScript, Node.js, React AI, and C++. I have also published research in the STEM field, created large software systems, and authored highly cited publications. Moreover, I am a self-starter who is motivated to discover AI breakthroughs and their potential benefits to humanity. I am excited to immerse myself in the fundamentals of machine learning and work closely with a team of machine learning researchers to build AI systems that can perform previously impossible tasks.
I am available and interested in joining OpenAI full-time after completing the Residency, and I am willing to relocate to San Francisco if required. I believe I can contribute to OpenAI's mission and help shape the future of technology. Thank you for considering my application. I look forward to the opportunity to discuss my qualifications further.
Sincerely, Angelina Lee
I don’t know if I dislike GPT for making inauthentic people seem slightly more convincing, or if I like it for confirming that we have always lived among people who are essentially performative NPCs.
This is endgame for the current hiring process circus.
It'll be back to "who you know, who recommends you, and who you trust."
It'll be back to "who you know, who recommends you, and who you trust."
was it ever not that?
i got 100% of all jobs i ever had like that
I’m similar. I’ve been working for almost 15 years, and got all but one of my jobs through connections. I think I’m now so out of touch with the hiring game that I’d fail spectacularly if I ever had to do it again. I don’t even know what a cover letter is. Do you attach it as a PDF to your email? Why don’t you just write that stuff in the actual email?
I’ve hired over 50 people and they were all new to me. The big qualifying question was “What have you launched recently?”
Bullshit like this is why hiring processes are so insane now.
I am really hoping LLMs will remove much of the cruft from our daily communication.
If cover letters are not a human effort any more they can be left out.
Recently I was involved in supporting my manager in hiring for a new Developer position and we barely even skimmed the letters. They are already basically useless
If cover letters are not a human effort any more they can be left out.
Recently I was involved in supporting my manager in hiring for a new Developer position and we barely even skimmed the letters. They are already basically useless
Skimming is being generous most places now. ATS is really the only thing that "reads" them.
Agreed. In my most recent round of hiring, I used the presence of a relevant cover letter as a point in favor of the applicant when deciding whether to invite them in for an intro call. It showed me the person actually looked into the company a little bit and wasn't just spamming. It also helped weed out the spam since I'd get cover letters telling me how excited the applicant was to work at a web3 fintech while we're doing almost the exact opposite thing. Don't get me wrong; I think like 85% of people I invited back for calls did not have a cover letter, but it really helped in the weeding process.
If it becomes an effortless throwaway generated by an AI, it no longer has value. Additionally, you may be shooting yourself in the foot. If I see something in a cover letter that catches my eye, I'm going to bring it up in our call to learn more. Not to quiz you or play gotcha, but because it probably intreagues me and I want to learn more. If an AI wrote it and you don't know what you submitted to the job posting, that's not going to reflect well in a call.
If it becomes an effortless throwaway generated by an AI, it no longer has value. Additionally, you may be shooting yourself in the foot. If I see something in a cover letter that catches my eye, I'm going to bring it up in our call to learn more. Not to quiz you or play gotcha, but because it probably intreagues me and I want to learn more. If an AI wrote it and you don't know what you submitted to the job posting, that's not going to reflect well in a call.
Bingo. If your cover letter has a lie in it detected during the first phone call, you’re out as a candidate.
If your cover letter is so generic that it doesn’t have any personal connection to why you’re interested in the position, it’s probably not a good cover letter.
If your cover letter is so generic that it doesn’t have any personal connection to why you’re interested in the position, it’s probably not a good cover letter.
The ai writes it based off of the resume. It's not like it's a completely random cover letter
Unfortunately, there is a massive sale going on for bullshit at the moment.
It's not surprising that people are trying to start businesses which would not be viable in a market where bullshit was more expensive.
It's not surprising that people are trying to start businesses which would not be viable in a market where bullshit was more expensive.
It's everywhere. A couple of examples:
Native advertising in the media.
Mass produced foods and products pretending to be artisan.
Native advertising in the media.
Mass produced foods and products pretending to be artisan.
In 5 years time everyone is just going to be hurling pages and pages of ai generated babble at each other. Either party not bothering to read any of it.
Please apply to this job post via our chatgRPC endpoint.
Seems like it was posted by the same person, so I guess they didn't get enough traction two weeks ago and felt the need to repost it.
I agree. From the FAQ:
> Are reposts ok?
> If a story has not had significant attention in the last year or so, a small number of reposts is ok. Otherwise we bury reposts as duplicates.
It's not clear what "significant attention" means, and how many are "a small number". The other post got only 18 upvotes and 7 comments, so I guess a repost is fine.
> Are reposts ok?
> If a story has not had significant attention in the last year or so, a small number of reposts is ok. Otherwise we bury reposts as duplicates.
It's not clear what "significant attention" means, and how many are "a small number". The other post got only 18 upvotes and 7 comments, so I guess a repost is fine.
I used to live in a country where I was screening hiring applicants and the resumes there were freaking GIANT. like huge, multi page things which i never could go through completely attached with copies of diplomas and certifications and all this superfluous stuff that flew in the face of everything I've been told about keeping resumes concise and to the point.
I kind of just felt the same about their cover letters, they always feel a bit just contrived enough to filter out people too lazy to do them or something. I really just cared if they could pass a fizzbuzz and answer some hard questions with "i would have to google that" instead of trying to technobabble me
I kind of just felt the same about their cover letters, they always feel a bit just contrived enough to filter out people too lazy to do them or something. I really just cared if they could pass a fizzbuzz and answer some hard questions with "i would have to google that" instead of trying to technobabble me
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This should just be a feature of LinkedIn. They have all the info about the candidate, the job, the employer, and the domain. And it’s probably already structured nicely. When you click on a job, LinkedIn should just populate the draft cover letter for you from ChatGPT.
Hell, LinkedIn should be able to have a chatbot answer recruiter emails on my behalf with me out of the loop. When I’m looking for a job they have all the information needed to accurately answer solicitations from recruiters. Just do it for me and leave me out of it until an on-site is scheduled.
Hell, LinkedIn should be able to have a chatbot answer recruiter emails on my behalf with me out of the loop. When I’m looking for a job they have all the information needed to accurately answer solicitations from recruiters. Just do it for me and leave me out of it until an on-site is scheduled.
To be fair, there are a number of job openings where you can "Apply with LinkedIn", so it's structured data end-to-end.
Being able to communicate clearly with high signal-to-noise is essential. When hiring, I’ve learned it’s often better to take a great communicator with less experience over a poor communicator with great experience.
Cover letters can be a helpful filter for this. In my experience a pithy cover letter is better than no cover letter. But no cover letter is better than a bull shit one.
You can bet that if I smell diarrhea of the chatgpt in a cover letter, it’ll get a fast pass to the bottom of the heap if not a direct route to the reject pile.
Cover letters can be a helpful filter for this. In my experience a pithy cover letter is better than no cover letter. But no cover letter is better than a bull shit one.
You can bet that if I smell diarrhea of the chatgpt in a cover letter, it’ll get a fast pass to the bottom of the heap if not a direct route to the reject pile.
A buddy of mine made the exact same thing a couple of weeks ago https://coverlettergpt.xyz
It's funny how people come up with similar ideas and are able to make them into products quickly with ChatGPT
His is open source if you are interested in how it's done: https://github.com/vincanger/coverlettergpt
It's funny how people come up with similar ideas and are able to make them into products quickly with ChatGPT
His is open source if you are interested in how it's done: https://github.com/vincanger/coverlettergpt
That’s not how you do a proper cover letter. In a proper cover letter, you get an opportunity to talk about what’s not in the resume. The cover letter is supposed to prove you’re a good fit for the job, but more in terms of soft skills. You CAN generate a cover letter if you telle ChatGPT what to put in it. You CAN’T generate one from just the resume and job post, or don’t expect to be recruited if it’s a company that cares about cover letters.
i dont get these apps, are they just chatgpt + preprompting with "write a cover letter"? Cant this easily be done with chatgpt itself?
That's exactly what this is, I've been using ChatGPT to rewrite my resumes and cover letters for months now.
If you've been doing it for months, maybe it's not working very well. ;)
Yes, yes.
I used to just skip any job posting which required a cover letter but now, thanks to AI, I can fight their bullshit with more bullshit!
[deleted]
Cover letters are for those that send in applications.
Successful people network instead; don´t be part of the PDF pile, work around it!
Successful people network instead; don´t be part of the PDF pile, work around it!
That way, you hire people who are good at networking, and/or gaming the system, rather than people that are good at the work you're hiring for.
This adequately explains one or more places I've worked.
This adequately explains one or more places I've worked.
Life can be modeled as a series of skinner boxes and markets. If a rat had a way of significantly increasing the probability of getting food versus pressing the bar it would.
Actually incredibly true. I’m batting 1000 over my entire career because of it. I hear about jobs from people I know, get in contact with the team / hiring manager directly. By the time I’m actually emailing a PDF of my resume it’s already a formality.
I’ve gotten hired twice for positions that didn’t even exist when I started the process. Let me tell you it’s real easy when there are no other applicants.
I’ve gotten hired twice for positions that didn’t even exist when I started the process. Let me tell you it’s real easy when there are no other applicants.
I was prototyping a similar project before as well but ended up abandoning it because the the resulting cover letter just seemed too generic, non-authentic and business sounding. Plus, it would make stuff up sometimes (i.e saying I know X tech stack just to match the job description even though I dont)
I just created a prompt to do this yesterday. The cover letters it was outputting were just as good as the ones I usually write, and a lot less effort. Unfortunately, with this taking off, I don't think a good cover letter is going to be much of a competitive advantage anymore.
This is neat! The typing animation in the title a nice touch.
My first question for these "Use GPT to X" projects is, what does it bring to the table beyond ChatGPT capabilities? Couldn't I use chat.openai.com to accomplish the same thing?
My first question for these "Use GPT to X" projects is, what does it bring to the table beyond ChatGPT capabilities? Couldn't I use chat.openai.com to accomplish the same thing?
[deleted]
Technicallly, this is great. The UI is nice as well.
But... if it were my dream job, I'd definitely put more effort into the cover letter. I'd use it to say why this is my dream job, rather than simply re-stating what's on my CV.
But... if it were my dream job, I'd definitely put more effort into the cover letter. I'd use it to say why this is my dream job, rather than simply re-stating what's on my CV.
I did this with chatGPT a few weeks back. It made up a really great cover letter that highlighted all of my skills matching them with each requirement. The problem was it made up a few skills that I don't have.
Just paste the job post and your resume or LinkedIn, and get a tailored cover letter in minutes. Excited to hear your feedback and suggestions to improve it—try it out and land your dream job!
A better thing to do is take the job description and a detailed resume, and rewrite the resume to fit the job description. Cover letters might be needed in certain jobs like academia, but they have fallen out of fashion in the online application world.
An example on the landing page would be nice
This is cool but sending me a cover letter is sort of like having an @aol.com email address – it tells me that you aren't really with the times.
Turns out to be pathetic
So what generation backend is this service using?
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