$39 Cooler Master case turns your old Framework Laptop parts into a tiny PC(theverge.com)
theverge.com
$39 Cooler Master case turns your old Framework Laptop parts into a tiny PC
https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/23/23652939/framework-cooler-master-sff-pc-case
159 comments
I really like this as a way to repurpose old hardware; I have known many laptops that end up sitting around in cupboards after their 'useful' life is over, that could probably still comfortably be serving as lightweight desktops even today.
Yes, or servers. I've been searching for ways to convert an older Dell laptop mainboard into a simple server. It has great power consumption on account of being a laptop logic board, and enough power to run serious server workloads.
Unfortunately, I do not think a universal product for reusing laptop logic boards exists. Although it might be easy enough to make. All ports on the logic board could be wired up to a backplate in the case with extension cables. Airflow could be controlled by temperature inside. Only designing a solder-less power button extension and a universal mount for mainboards in the case might be challenging.
It is really wasteful to throw away old laptop hardware which could be made into either low-end PCs, or game emulator consoles, or home servers, or NAS devices.
Unfortunately, I do not think a universal product for reusing laptop logic boards exists. Although it might be easy enough to make. All ports on the logic board could be wired up to a backplate in the case with extension cables. Airflow could be controlled by temperature inside. Only designing a solder-less power button extension and a universal mount for mainboards in the case might be challenging.
It is really wasteful to throw away old laptop hardware which could be made into either low-end PCs, or game emulator consoles, or home servers, or NAS devices.
> Yes, or servers.
Though take care with the batteries. Left plugged in 24/7 some turn a bit fiery after a time, or just fail in a way that takes out the device at an inconvenient time.
Some remove batteries from laptops used this way for that reason, though that throws away the built-in-UPS benefit. Another option to mitigate the issue is a timer switch that disconnects power for an hour every few, this works well while the battery still has enough life in it at all.
If you are a smart-home-hacker you could rig a controlled plug up to the battery state so you can flip power back on/off when the battery hits a certain level, rather than relying on a fixed time period, though I'm unsure whether that is worth the effort in terms of preventing potential faults and preserving battery life (IIRC charging up to 80-to-90% and discharging to ~40% is considered optimal for prolonging the useful life of modern batteries?) or if it would “just” be an interesting nerd project.
Though take care with the batteries. Left plugged in 24/7 some turn a bit fiery after a time, or just fail in a way that takes out the device at an inconvenient time.
Some remove batteries from laptops used this way for that reason, though that throws away the built-in-UPS benefit. Another option to mitigate the issue is a timer switch that disconnects power for an hour every few, this works well while the battery still has enough life in it at all.
If you are a smart-home-hacker you could rig a controlled plug up to the battery state so you can flip power back on/off when the battery hits a certain level, rather than relying on a fixed time period, though I'm unsure whether that is worth the effort in terms of preventing potential faults and preserving battery life (IIRC charging up to 80-to-90% and discharging to ~40% is considered optimal for prolonging the useful life of modern batteries?) or if it would “just” be an interesting nerd project.
I'd argue just recycle the batteries and have a proper UPS or backup generator. If the batteries are still good, resell them to people who could actually use them. Otherwise, drop them off at a recycling center. Using them as servers, the batteries wouldn't be doing anything 99.9% of the time, and the constant charging and heat would simply kill the batteries. Simply wasteful.
Fun fact about HP pavilion laptops: They need the battery installed to preserve secure boot bios information. Otherwise, it's a complicated set of post interactions to do a one-time reset.
You don’t need to re-case them. I had three old thinkpads as servers a few years ago. Took the batteries out and connected them to Ethernet switch. Built in KVM. Job done!
Aside from aesthetics, I also want to re-case them for better airflow than what's in the laptop body. There can be quite a lot of sustained performance to unlock this way, as laptops thermal-throttle a lot compared to servers and desktops.
A slightly less-performant server is better than no server :)
I gave up on worrying about those details - just installed ProxMox, set it on a shelf in the basement, moved on. Works great for the tasks I'm running.
I gave up on worrying about those details - just installed ProxMox, set it on a shelf in the basement, moved on. Works great for the tasks I'm running.
Well, it depends on what you use it for. I was thinking about using it for distributed workloads which is more intense than average.
I was even thinking about how much mileage could one get from a rack of old laptop logic boards. Gaming laptops sold for parts are much, much cheaper than "real" server hardware. It appeals to me because of the reuse aspect as well.
I was even thinking about how much mileage could one get from a rack of old laptop logic boards. Gaming laptops sold for parts are much, much cheaper than "real" server hardware. It appeals to me because of the reuse aspect as well.
> A slightly less-performant server is better than no server
Holds true regardless of your workload :) Imo sounds like premature optimization.
Holds true regardless of your workload :) Imo sounds like premature optimization.
Yes - built-in kvm and built-in UPS.
I had an old dell laptop that had a double-high pcmcia port and I inserted two xircom realport LAN cards and had a very nice router with three NICs and no dongles.
I had an old dell laptop that had a double-high pcmcia port and I inserted two xircom realport LAN cards and had a very nice router with three NICs and no dongles.
I usually pull the batteries out now after a spicy pillow incident.
I heard about people who use simple timer sockets to mitigate that. The battery won't die nearly as quickly if it's not at 100% all the time.
How have battery management systems not evolved to deal with this issue? It's especially confusing considering the massive number of laptops deployed by companies to part time work-from-home employees many of whom keep their devices plugged in nearly 100% of the time.
They haven't evolved to stop issues happening, partly because many a consumer won't understand the need so won't accept it (I'm returning this because it never charges to 100%) and there isn't enough demand from elsewhere for it to affect sales of devices (in office environments those laptops are usually cycled out before it would be a significant issue anyway).
But these days there are often controls in place to cut off power if things look bad (battery getting too hot, mainly) so things are more likely to die on their own rather than setting fire to themselves and anything near-by.
But these days there are often controls in place to cut off power if things look bad (battery getting too hot, mainly) so things are more likely to die on their own rather than setting fire to themselves and anything near-by.
That battery doesn’t look any different to the BMW under catastrophic failure conditions.
Interesting... don't most older laptops have some sort of docking mechanism that exposed basically every connection?
The physical interface wasn't the same for every laptop, but with a common backplane it should be possible to make a seperate docking connector daughterboard for the most popular laptops taking up cupboard space.
I would love to collab on an open-source dock that turns laptops into servers :)
The physical interface wasn't the same for every laptop, but with a common backplane it should be possible to make a seperate docking connector daughterboard for the most popular laptops taking up cupboard space.
I would love to collab on an open-source dock that turns laptops into servers :)
Docking, not necessarily. Laptops have ports all over the place: on the left, on the right, on the back, and sometimes even on the front (like the 3.5mm jack for headphones).
You could probably use only one USB port on the laptop and integrate a hub into the case. But for ethernet, audio, and HDMI, you'd probably need cables. The nice thing about cables in the box is that adapters could be used. If a laptop comes with VGA out only, that can be adapted to HDMI. If there are separate audio out and in jacks, those can be combined with an adapter. If there is no ethernet jack, it could be added with a USB network card. There are also adapters for laptop power supply cables for the C13/C14 three-pin interface.
So a lot of work can be done inside the case by the person building a desktop/console/server out of a laptop. But no one is selling a universal case with a backplate. And desktop cases are difficult to work with because they expect a backplate from a motherboard.
Really, the product could be just an I/O backplate that mounts to standard ATX stand-offs/screws and takes extension cables, plus something to regulate fan speeds by temperature that also has fan headers. The power button might be a challenge for the builder to solve, but with very minor soldering, most power buttons integrated in any case would work.
You could probably use only one USB port on the laptop and integrate a hub into the case. But for ethernet, audio, and HDMI, you'd probably need cables. The nice thing about cables in the box is that adapters could be used. If a laptop comes with VGA out only, that can be adapted to HDMI. If there are separate audio out and in jacks, those can be combined with an adapter. If there is no ethernet jack, it could be added with a USB network card. There are also adapters for laptop power supply cables for the C13/C14 three-pin interface.
So a lot of work can be done inside the case by the person building a desktop/console/server out of a laptop. But no one is selling a universal case with a backplate. And desktop cases are difficult to work with because they expect a backplate from a motherboard.
Really, the product could be just an I/O backplate that mounts to standard ATX stand-offs/screws and takes extension cables, plus something to regulate fan speeds by temperature that also has fan headers. The power button might be a challenge for the builder to solve, but with very minor soldering, most power buttons integrated in any case would work.
Instead of a case, I have a couple old laptops which broken screens but everything else is okay. Could I not just detach the screen (hinge and all) and just have the base case with the default laptop keyboard? Then just plug in a hdmi cable in the port and use that as my new screen?
In this case, there would be no need for a universal case because I'm repurposing everything in the laptop "as is" except the screen.
In this case, there would be no need for a universal case because I'm repurposing everything in the laptop "as is" except the screen.
Interestingly, I have a Dell lattitude 5440 that has a dock, and I have the dock. I'd love to use it as a server, but 2 out of 3 of the USB ports are damaged. They seem to share a bus with the camera, so it doesn't work, and the damage seems to stop the usb-3 ports on the dock from working, the only working port is usb-2.
I also have a couple 3350's where the power port is way too loose to use them for much of anything. I need to see if that's replaceable.
I also have a couple 3350's where the power port is way too loose to use them for much of anything. I need to see if that's replaceable.
Media server!
It has a built in UPS if the battery works at all. Video transcoding will likely be good, low power draw, will fit on a shelf or 1U rack shelf.
No need to remote into it when you can just open it.
No need to remote into it when you can just open it.
Most, if not the vast majority , laptop and desktop HDMI ports don't support cec. For me this makes it a non-starter as a media center.
It’s a little half assed though. Moving to a more desktop form factor would allow them to dump the laptop thermal solution with maybe one large case fan and a low profile cpu cooler. You could have an extremely quiet little machine instead of a jet engine that barely moves any air.
I’ve been doing a somewhat similar mod on an old Lenovo tiny pc and it’s definitely great value as long as you put a little effort and thought into it. Once you get into a M.2 to PCIE adapter and cutting holes to fit fans you know you’re building something neat
I’ve been doing a somewhat similar mod on an old Lenovo tiny pc and it’s definitely great value as long as you put a little effort and thought into it. Once you get into a M.2 to PCIE adapter and cutting holes to fit fans you know you’re building something neat
I thought the same thing, too. But I also wonder if the cooler mounting pattern is going to be compatible with consumer market coolers. I expect the one they've chosen is already tooled.
I've got an older laptop with a busted screen, I've thought about pulling the mainboard and dropping it into a 3D printed chassis myself, and using it as a server. Haven't gotten around to it.
I've got an older laptop with a busted screen, I've thought about pulling the mainboard and dropping it into a 3D printed chassis myself, and using it as a server. Haven't gotten around to it.
It’s usually not the same. I have a AM4 OEM mini PC which has a B300 motherboard and it’s almost the AM4 Mount but it’s slightly narrower so I had to use zip ties on one end
How much cooling does a laptop specced processor require? Presumably they are already engineered to run at lower power (<20 watts) and have severe thermal throttling by default.
The Odroid-H3 <https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-h3-plus/> has a laptop-grade CPU, consuming 10-20W, and is passively cooled; so it seems doable.
Framework uses 28W (TDP) class CPUs on their Intel boards. Better cooling would allow better boosting behaviour. Still, this case plus one of their 13th gen or AMD boards is very tempting.
It’s more that a bigger fan and heat sink is completely silent while laptop blowers are almost always loud at full load
Previously we were giving our old laptops to friends with kids. Now our kids use our old Macbook air to learn to type and other learning programs.
My old MBP runs our 2010 "smart" TV via HDMI. It's not perfect because we have to get up to change the movie or skip an ad, but it works. And man, that thing still heats up like a mofo even when only running a browser, jeez.
My old MBP runs our 2010 "smart" TV via HDMI. It's not perfect because we have to get up to change the movie or skip an ad, but it works. And man, that thing still heats up like a mofo even when only running a browser, jeez.
> It's not perfect because we have to get up to change the movie or skip an ad, but it works.
If you're running on a computer rather than a locked-down device, why do you see ads at all?
Also, you've probably already considered this, but a wireless keyboard/mouse would nicely complete a living-room computer.
If you're running on a computer rather than a locked-down device, why do you see ads at all?
Also, you've probably already considered this, but a wireless keyboard/mouse would nicely complete a living-room computer.
I bet if you look in the app store there is something in there that will let you use your phone as a media remote.
I use Unified Remote (https://www.unifiedremote.com/) for this, works great.
Treat yourself to a wireless keyboard + mouse. There’s a popular Logitech one for $30. You won’t have to get up to change the movie any more.
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/k400-plus-...
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/k400-plus-...
These are great, but beware if you have little kids. Those keys pull of and get lost very easily.
I used something like this with my computer and xbmc back in the day. I had a wireless keyboard/mouse combo for situations where the remote control was less helpful, but this covered 99% of the requirements quite nicely.
https://www.amazon.com/HP-REMOTE-CONTROL-RECEIVER-EMITTER/dp...
https://www.amazon.com/HP-REMOTE-CONTROL-RECEIVER-EMITTER/dp...
My 2010 MacBook Pro still lives on my network running as a print server for my old laser printer that no longer works with modern OS's due to the lack of 64 bit drivers. I'm looking into installing HomeAssistant and possibly PiHole as well in the near future since it's way overkill for only running a print server.
Or NAS. Or other appliances. "Obsolete" hardware has a lot of life left in it after the mainstream has passed it by.
I have a few old laptops as servers at home. It’s great because they have a (limited) built-in battery backup, and a keyboard and screen are there if you need a local terminal.
My biggest issue with those is that sometimes their cooling solution is ridiculously bad. They have a next-to-nonexistent heat sink, so the fan needs to spin like crazy to cool it down. Bonus points for the fan stopping from time to time, so it has to spin even faster than it would need to if it were running all the time.
Had this is an older HP laptop. My newer one lets me configure it so that the fan spins all the time, so it's very quiet as long as it doesn't do anything.
Had this is an older HP laptop. My newer one lets me configure it so that the fan spins all the time, so it's very quiet as long as it doesn't do anything.
A fanless laptop sounds attractive for this. Dropping the money on a MacBook Air seems wasteful though, and I’m not aware of other fanless laptops.
Here you go:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X13s-G1-Laptop...
Although IIRC it's more expensive than the Air.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X13s-G1-Laptop...
Although IIRC it's more expensive than the Air.
I have a Pixelbook running as a web server. It's nice using old hardware to address new needs.
I repurposed my original 11th gen board as a home server running a NAS and NVR, among other things. [1]
These boards are going to kick ass for a long time because of the IO. USB 3.2 can handle 10Gbps, enough for a SATA drive array. Thunderbolt 4 goes up to 40Gbps. All current Intel Framework boards come with four TB4 ports.
It is frankly a challenge to make use of all of the bandwidth on my mid-tier original board. Hopefully 10Gbe adapters will go down in price.
As Framework owners upgrade, the price of these boards will continue to drop, and a lot of interesting projects will be within reach.
[1] https://mastodon.social/@chromakode/109385742918733517
These boards are going to kick ass for a long time because of the IO. USB 3.2 can handle 10Gbps, enough for a SATA drive array. Thunderbolt 4 goes up to 40Gbps. All current Intel Framework boards come with four TB4 ports.
It is frankly a challenge to make use of all of the bandwidth on my mid-tier original board. Hopefully 10Gbe adapters will go down in price.
As Framework owners upgrade, the price of these boards will continue to drop, and a lot of interesting projects will be within reach.
[1] https://mastodon.social/@chromakode/109385742918733517
I was definitely skeptical of Framework at first, but it seems like they're committing to their pluggable module concept and supporting their OG users. Way more interested in them now.
I know framework is a popular company on tech forums but it's always felt like a solution in search of a problem. Laptops I own that only have a CPU are rarely computationally bounded in what I'm trying to do, by the time the CPU is showing its age the battery and case are usually showing their age too. But lets say I need the most up to date CPU and can't wait, why would I now need a desktop computer with no expandability based on hardware worse than my laptop? And what will I do again in ~3 years when I replace the motherboard again and now have three computers with increasingly aging hardware.
This feels like a solution to a non existent problem
This feels like a solution to a non existent problem
There are three problems it solves:
1. Upgrading is cheaper than a whole new system. This saves consumers money. Modern laptops increasingly solder parts down, making upgrades nigh-impossible (I've tried multiple times). Most tech companies have trade-in programs, but with dismal exhange rates. This gives the user more options and control over their hardware.
2. Countering planned obsolence and expensive repair costs associated with modern products.
3. Enabling upcycling, repurposing, and reducing ewaste. There are a fair number of environmentally conscious people in tech and tech-adjacent industries.
1. Upgrading is cheaper than a whole new system. This saves consumers money. Modern laptops increasingly solder parts down, making upgrades nigh-impossible (I've tried multiple times). Most tech companies have trade-in programs, but with dismal exhange rates. This gives the user more options and control over their hardware.
2. Countering planned obsolence and expensive repair costs associated with modern products.
3. Enabling upcycling, repurposing, and reducing ewaste. There are a fair number of environmentally conscious people in tech and tech-adjacent industries.
I would say there is one more problem it can solve, though less related to sustainability: Building up a modular system may make it easier to more offer customers a device close to their ideal configuration with a limited number of SKUs.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think that's a real consumer problem (particularly for the space they're in, which is portable laptops). Being reusable is a solution, and in this case it doesn't seem to be solving a real world problem. Usually people want their desktop computers to be more powerful than their laptops, and have dedicated graphics. This gives people a desktop computer which is older and less powerful than their laptop, and barring niche use cases (like a home server) isn't solving a consumer problem.
I mean, consider that Framework aren't even the people offering this product, it's Cooler Master. The fact that a third-party company has decided to offer this accessory probably validates somewhat that they think there's a market. It also looks like it's quite inexpensive to manufacture, being mostly or entirely injection-molded plastic, so I don't think they need to sell very many units of this thing for it to work out. What's the downside of having the option for the niche market that does exist?
I would guess not that many buyers of this case would be people upgrading their laptops anyway. It's more appealing to me as a nice way to encase a Framework motherboard I bought used, which are already starting to turn up on eBay at decent prices and will probably become more common. This could become a very compelling alternative to a new single-board computer or small-form-factor PC, especially since it's hard to get x86 SBCs or really any architecture at that performance level.
One bit of consumer value there on the firsthand market is the ability to readily sell your old motherboard. The easy reusability of Framework motherboards will probably allow them to fetch higher prices than working motherboards for other laptops where the market is limited to repairs.
Finally, just buying a new Framework motherboard (it's easy to buy them bare, not in a laptop) and putting it in one of these cases would get you a pretty top-of-the-line SFF PC at prices similar to a bit better than options from Dell, Lenovo, etc. From the photos it looks like this case can go on a VESA mount, and it'll be appreciably thinner than most SFF PCs. Could be a pretty appealing new PC option for situations like wall-mount displays running relatively intensive software... museum kiosks, that kind of thing. I used to work in that space and it can be a frustration to find good hardware options.
I would guess not that many buyers of this case would be people upgrading their laptops anyway. It's more appealing to me as a nice way to encase a Framework motherboard I bought used, which are already starting to turn up on eBay at decent prices and will probably become more common. This could become a very compelling alternative to a new single-board computer or small-form-factor PC, especially since it's hard to get x86 SBCs or really any architecture at that performance level.
One bit of consumer value there on the firsthand market is the ability to readily sell your old motherboard. The easy reusability of Framework motherboards will probably allow them to fetch higher prices than working motherboards for other laptops where the market is limited to repairs.
Finally, just buying a new Framework motherboard (it's easy to buy them bare, not in a laptop) and putting it in one of these cases would get you a pretty top-of-the-line SFF PC at prices similar to a bit better than options from Dell, Lenovo, etc. From the photos it looks like this case can go on a VESA mount, and it'll be appreciably thinner than most SFF PCs. Could be a pretty appealing new PC option for situations like wall-mount displays running relatively intensive software... museum kiosks, that kind of thing. I used to work in that space and it can be a frustration to find good hardware options.
Reducing e-waste is absolutely a consumer problem. Ignoring the problem is popular with manufacturers and hence is the default for consumers, but doesn't mean it's not an issue.
The desktop computer you get can either become your own desktop computer, your partner's or your child's new desktop computer, it can become your parent's new computer if the one they have is aging. It can become a homeserver or a low-spec game console (SteamOS, or emulation stuff).
If you don't do any sort of 3D-heavy stuff, then the powerful CPU and iGPU you get is PLENTY of power.
I think simply offering it as an option is already a huge step in the right direction.
I don't own a Framework, so I wouldn't be repurposing an old mainboard, but I would be more than willing to buy one secondhand to replace my media PC with a unit I can literally tape to my TV with 3M strips.
It would work as computers in the third-world, or as first PCs for children, etc.
I don't own a Framework, so I wouldn't be repurposing an old mainboard, but I would be more than willing to buy one secondhand to replace my media PC with a unit I can literally tape to my TV with 3M strips.
It would work as computers in the third-world, or as first PCs for children, etc.
out of curiosity, three questions:
1. have you ever bought a used laptop, 2. have you ever upgraded a laptop you own, 3. have you ever kept using a device until some EOL event forced you to replace it
1. have you ever bought a used laptop, 2. have you ever upgraded a laptop you own, 3. have you ever kept using a device until some EOL event forced you to replace it
Yes no yes
What I described was my computer setup. I have a laptop which I use for minor projects, and a desktop for training models (and video games). Like the Framework laptop, my laptop was designed to be thin and doesn't have a dedicated graphics card. My desktop receives regular upgrades, my laptop goes about 4-5 years by which point I want a new one anyways (usually the battery is dying and the cpu is starting to show its age).
Most importantly however I would never use a desktop that's worse than my laptop, because if that were the case I'd just plug my laptop into my monitor instead of using a desktop (and I assume this is the case with most consumers).
What I described was my computer setup. I have a laptop which I use for minor projects, and a desktop for training models (and video games). Like the Framework laptop, my laptop was designed to be thin and doesn't have a dedicated graphics card. My desktop receives regular upgrades, my laptop goes about 4-5 years by which point I want a new one anyways (usually the battery is dying and the cpu is starting to show its age).
Most importantly however I would never use a desktop that's worse than my laptop, because if that were the case I'd just plug my laptop into my monitor instead of using a desktop (and I assume this is the case with most consumers).
Yes, yes and yes.
> Enabling upcycling, repurposing, and reducing ewaste. There are a fair number of environmentally conscious people in tech and tech-adjacent industries.
I'm kind of torn by this. On the one hand, I like keeping old tech around. On the other, isn't this wasting energy on less efficient CPUs?
Isn't it worse for the environment to run old, inefficient CPUs?
I'm kind of torn by this. On the one hand, I like keeping old tech around. On the other, isn't this wasting energy on less efficient CPUs?
Isn't it worse for the environment to run old, inefficient CPUs?
Yes, it is less efficient. However the numbers are rather small:
Most modern laptop processors, including the ones on the Framework, have a TDP of 5-45 watts. Framework chargers are rated for 60 watts.
Your response also assumes a more efficient alternative is available. I work as a professor at a community college. I fix old laptops and give them to students who have no means to afford a computer. For many, that upcycled gift has gotten them through their bachelors degree.
Most modern laptop processors, including the ones on the Framework, have a TDP of 5-45 watts. Framework chargers are rated for 60 watts.
Your response also assumes a more efficient alternative is available. I work as a professor at a community college. I fix old laptops and give them to students who have no means to afford a computer. For many, that upcycled gift has gotten them through their bachelors degree.
Do you get funding for this or support from anywhere?
It’s a very positive thing.
It’s a very positive thing.
I appreciate it!
Sadly, no this is done out of my salary. I've lobbied my college repeatedly, but there are a lot of restrictions (read: next-to-impossible) in using state and federal funds for private equipment. Private funds that you can do whatever you want with are hard to come by at community colleges. It is also illegal for the school to sell me old (yet perfectly functional) computers to refurb for student use. They must be inventoried by the state, after which they are mothballed into storage, or destroyed/landfilled.
Sadly, no this is done out of my salary. I've lobbied my college repeatedly, but there are a lot of restrictions (read: next-to-impossible) in using state and federal funds for private equipment. Private funds that you can do whatever you want with are hard to come by at community colleges. It is also illegal for the school to sell me old (yet perfectly functional) computers to refurb for student use. They must be inventoried by the state, after which they are mothballed into storage, or destroyed/landfilled.
Most of the carbon footprint of electronic devices is from the manufacturing.
Especially for laptop CPUs. They’re usually tuned (underclocked) to use a tiny amount of power. Because power consumption and performance are non-linear, even old laptop CPUs are usually much more energy efficient than modern desktops.
You can underclock a lot of modern desktop CPUs to be more energy efficient too (eg Eco Mode). But almost nobody bothers to actually do that.
You can underclock a lot of modern desktop CPUs to be more energy efficient too (eg Eco Mode). But almost nobody bothers to actually do that.
I recently did some minor testing of Eco Mode on my AMD build. I saw zero impact to single threaded workloads and a ~3% drop in performance for multithreaded. Which is a trade-off I will happily take.
Depends on many variables, including how your electricity is produced.
>Upgrading is cheaper than a whole new system. This saves consumers money. Modern laptops increasingly solder parts down, making upgrades nigh-impossible (I've tried multiple times).
A MacBook Air can easily last 5 years+. I've had mine for 10 years. Will the average Framework laptop last as long as the average MacBook?
>Countering planned obsolence and expensive repair costs associated with modern products.
Macbooks receive updates for 5+ years usually. Even after that, it's perfectly usable. I highly doubt that the hardware inside Framework will be supported for as long as Macbooks.
>Enabling upcycling, repurposing, and reducing ewaste. There are a fair number of environmentally conscious people in tech and tech-adjacent industries.
Upgrading parts cause e-waste, especially if the chips aren't generally as good as Apple Silicon so you have to upgrade more often. If you trade in or recycle your laptop with Apple, they should be able to do a better job of recycling than your average Framework user.
To me, the main selling point of Framework is that geeks can upgrade the CPU/GPU every year or once a year because they always want the fastest. The fact that Framework markets this as "environmentally friendly" is just a way to make them feel better about constantly upgrading. You can't convince me that the average Framework laptop is more environmentally friendly than a Macbook Air over its lifetime.
A MacBook Air can easily last 5 years+. I've had mine for 10 years. Will the average Framework laptop last as long as the average MacBook?
>Countering planned obsolence and expensive repair costs associated with modern products.
Macbooks receive updates for 5+ years usually. Even after that, it's perfectly usable. I highly doubt that the hardware inside Framework will be supported for as long as Macbooks.
>Enabling upcycling, repurposing, and reducing ewaste. There are a fair number of environmentally conscious people in tech and tech-adjacent industries.
Upgrading parts cause e-waste, especially if the chips aren't generally as good as Apple Silicon so you have to upgrade more often. If you trade in or recycle your laptop with Apple, they should be able to do a better job of recycling than your average Framework user.
To me, the main selling point of Framework is that geeks can upgrade the CPU/GPU every year or once a year because they always want the fastest. The fact that Framework markets this as "environmentally friendly" is just a way to make them feel better about constantly upgrading. You can't convince me that the average Framework laptop is more environmentally friendly than a Macbook Air over its lifetime.
> A MacBook Air can easily last 5 years+. I've had mine for 10 years. Will the average Framework laptop last as long as the average MacBook?
I don't see why not. My old thinkpad is still perfectly usable 8 years after I bought it (used, already 5 years old). All I had to do was put more RAM in it and replace the hard drive with an SSD. The display is starting to go, although I could get a replacement for $40. I also replaced the battery awhile back for less than $100. This thing will easily last another 5 years, probably more (after which I'll probably repurpose it as a pi-hole or print server or something).
> Macbooks receive updates for 5+ years usually. Even after that, it's perfectly usable. I highly doubt that the hardware inside Framework will be supported for as long as Macbooks.
It's running Linux, so, yeah it absolutely will. I can still get the latest and greatest Linux updates for my 13 year old laptop. Windows support for it is also still strong. Meanwhile my 2011 MBP is long since no longer updatable.
> Upgrading parts cause e-waste, especially if the chips aren't generally as good as Apple Silicon so you have to upgrade more often. If you trade in or recycle your laptop with Apple, they should be able to do a better job of recycling than your average Framework user.
Now this is just getting downright silly.
> To me, the main selling point of Framework is that geeks can upgrade the CPU/GPU every year or once a year because they always want the fastest. The fact that Framework markets this as "environmentally friendly" is just a way to make them feel better about constantly upgrading. You can't convince me that the average Framework laptop is more environmentally friendly than a Macbook Air over its lifetime.
And, of course, finishing off with a final strawman flourish.
I don't see why not. My old thinkpad is still perfectly usable 8 years after I bought it (used, already 5 years old). All I had to do was put more RAM in it and replace the hard drive with an SSD. The display is starting to go, although I could get a replacement for $40. I also replaced the battery awhile back for less than $100. This thing will easily last another 5 years, probably more (after which I'll probably repurpose it as a pi-hole or print server or something).
> Macbooks receive updates for 5+ years usually. Even after that, it's perfectly usable. I highly doubt that the hardware inside Framework will be supported for as long as Macbooks.
It's running Linux, so, yeah it absolutely will. I can still get the latest and greatest Linux updates for my 13 year old laptop. Windows support for it is also still strong. Meanwhile my 2011 MBP is long since no longer updatable.
> Upgrading parts cause e-waste, especially if the chips aren't generally as good as Apple Silicon so you have to upgrade more often. If you trade in or recycle your laptop with Apple, they should be able to do a better job of recycling than your average Framework user.
Now this is just getting downright silly.
> To me, the main selling point of Framework is that geeks can upgrade the CPU/GPU every year or once a year because they always want the fastest. The fact that Framework markets this as "environmentally friendly" is just a way to make them feel better about constantly upgrading. You can't convince me that the average Framework laptop is more environmentally friendly than a Macbook Air over its lifetime.
And, of course, finishing off with a final strawman flourish.
> It's running Linux, so, yeah it absolutely will. I can still get the latest and greatest Linux updates for my 13 year old laptop.
For example, Linux explicitly supported 386 CPUs until 2012 (its successor CPU came out in 1989) and is only discontinuing support for the 486 CPU now (its successor CPU came out in 1993).
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/linux-removes-486-cpu-supp...
I'm running some 20-year-old Dell desktops with Linux, and they still run a mainstream present-day distribution and get software updates.
For example, Linux explicitly supported 386 CPUs until 2012 (its successor CPU came out in 1989) and is only discontinuing support for the 486 CPU now (its successor CPU came out in 1993).
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/linux-removes-486-cpu-supp...
I'm running some 20-year-old Dell desktops with Linux, and they still run a mainstream present-day distribution and get software updates.
This really is the kicker. CPUs over the past 20 years have gone from 2.4GHz to 5.6GHz clock speeds + bigger cache size and more cores. For most common tasks you're not going to see much difference between a 2-core and an 8-core CPU.
There just isn't much need for CPU advancements in today's average workloads (browsing, word processing, spreadsheets). Any further advancements (such as AI) will happen in the GPU (or whatever they're going to call the accelerator cards now that they're multi-purpose), while the CPU fight switches over to energy efficiency.
There just isn't much need for CPU advancements in today's average workloads (browsing, word processing, spreadsheets). Any further advancements (such as AI) will happen in the GPU (or whatever they're going to call the accelerator cards now that they're multi-purpose), while the CPU fight switches over to energy efficiency.
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> You can't convince me that the average Framework laptop is more environmentally friendly than a Macbook Air over its lifetime.
How do I put more RAM in my 8GB Macbook Air?
How do I put more RAM in my 8GB Macbook Air?
*without replacing the entire thing
If you’re planning on keeping it a long time, surely you’d get more RAM at purchase time?
Minimum ram is never going to be good in 5-10 years.
Minimum ram is never going to be good in 5-10 years.
My friend was using his 8 year old MacBook Air with 4GB RAM until just last year when it stopped turning on. Browsing the web, watching YouTube, checking emails all worked just fine with 4GB of RAM.
Microsoft sells the surface laptop 2 with 4GB of non-upgradeable RAM today in 2023.
The 8GB of base RAM in the MacBook Airs will absolutely be fine for most people for the next 5-10 years. If you are tech savvy enough to even know what RAM is, then yes, I would recommend upgrading to at least 16GB because you are likely doing more than just browsing the web.
Microsoft sells the surface laptop 2 with 4GB of non-upgradeable RAM today in 2023.
The 8GB of base RAM in the MacBook Airs will absolutely be fine for most people for the next 5-10 years. If you are tech savvy enough to even know what RAM is, then yes, I would recommend upgrading to at least 16GB because you are likely doing more than just browsing the web.
Some people can't afford that, and Apple sells storage and RAM at extortionate prices.
Maybe you start out thinking you just need to do your taxes but then get a job in video editing. People want to upgrade all the time and it's really bad that you have to toss out the whole computer to do it.
Maybe you start out thinking you just need to do your taxes but then get a job in video editing. People want to upgrade all the time and it's really bad that you have to toss out the whole computer to do it.
If you have enough money up front, or foresight, then yes. Even if that's the case in the minority of cases, that's enough to make it less environmetally friendly that being able to upgrade.
You usually have to customize the order on Apple's website to do this, which means your laptop could take a few weeks to arrive.
There's also other circumstances where this isn't an option. When I worked at a public university (UC system) that had an agreement with Apple, we could only purchase hardware that was in the University bookstore.
The University bookstore only stocked base models. Even the top-of-the-line 15" Macbook Pros didn't have a 16GB option once the RAM started being soldered down.
There's also other circumstances where this isn't an option. When I worked at a public university (UC system) that had an agreement with Apple, we could only purchase hardware that was in the University bookstore.
The University bookstore only stocked base models. Even the top-of-the-line 15" Macbook Pros didn't have a 16GB option once the RAM started being soldered down.
It's exactly what I usually doing.
ThinkPad X220i with 16GB RAM in 2011.
Macbook Air M1 with 16GB RAM in 2020.
In both cases it was the most RAM I could get.
ThinkPad X220i with 16GB RAM in 2011.
Macbook Air M1 with 16GB RAM in 2020.
In both cases it was the most RAM I could get.
You're being down voted but I think you're 100% right. Most processing intense tasks are done on the GPU nowadays anyways, so even if someone truly needed the fastest machine to train their neural networks (which frankly still wouldn't justify a new motherboard every year) they couldn't use a framework laptop anyways because it only has a CPU
I almost entirely disagree with you. The reason I have historically preferred desktop hardware is due to its repairability and longevity that allows it to be repurposed. Stuff like this case brings that to laptops with Framework.
Many of my computer systems over the years have gone on to help others because I was able to fix them up and donate them. An i7-2600K with 8GB of RAM is still able to run pretty much any common applications, and that CPU came out in 2011, more than a decade ago.
The most common parts to fail and need repair or replacement are fans and power supplies, and in laptops fans and batteries, the rest of the hardware is still good far past 3 or 5 years in age. It’s a travesty we as a society have tried to turn solid state electronics into something disposable.
Many of my computer systems over the years have gone on to help others because I was able to fix them up and donate them. An i7-2600K with 8GB of RAM is still able to run pretty much any common applications, and that CPU came out in 2011, more than a decade ago.
The most common parts to fail and need repair or replacement are fans and power supplies, and in laptops fans and batteries, the rest of the hardware is still good far past 3 or 5 years in age. It’s a travesty we as a society have tried to turn solid state electronics into something disposable.
I think the problem exists: the externalities of the approach to laptops you're describing are very bad. Framework is trying to promote the three R's to help combat this. Reduce, reuse, and recycle.
I have several old laptops that I use as home servers. I replaced the HDD with SSD and pulled out the dead batteries so they only run on wall power. They're less powerful than my current laptop but you don't need that much power to run most things when it's only serving a handful of users.
You gotta be careful doing that with modern ssds, they generally fail instantly with no warning signs. I've never seen smart data report under 90% but I've seen tons of modern ssds fail in a year or less. I wish they would just be DOA, it's rare to see one to fail between 2-5 years old without heavy workloads. At least with hard drives you can hear them fail when you walk by.
(Not only from the samsung firmware bug, I've personally seen about a dozen of these failures in the past 2 years alone. Drive quality went down the drain during covid.)
(Not only from the samsung firmware bug, I've personally seen about a dozen of these failures in the past 2 years alone. Drive quality went down the drain during covid.)
It's okay if something that a company offers doesn't meet your use-case. But you should consider that it might make sense to other people.
Even if only a small percentage of Framework owners repurpose old parts as personal servers or powerbanks, or whatever, it's still a good thing that the opportunity is there.
Even if only a small percentage of Framework owners repurpose old parts as personal servers or powerbanks, or whatever, it's still a good thing that the opportunity is there.
I set old computers up as gaming devices for my kids. They can't play the latest blockbuster, but there's lots of good older or low spec games. The oldest computer still regularly running in my house is 13 years old, it still runs well (2010 MacBook with Linux Mint).
Instead of thinking of it as something less capable than a desktop, why not consider it a larger and vastly more capable Raspberry Pi or similar SBC?
Because it's not a raspberry pi. It has a higher power draw, costs more, and most importantly you don't get to choose when you want a new one, rather you have to buy their laptop and wait ~2 years for them to come out with a new motherboard so you can justify buying a second without creating more "e-waste"
I bought a NAS a while back, I might not have if I had the guts to my Macbook Pro that is in a closet because I don't use it anymore (but don't want to deal with all the futziness from having a folded up laptop overheat). Especially one where there are easy upgradeable storage solutions.
Half of RasPi usages don't involve any GPIO. Granted the RasPi's form factor is a part, but a very thin slice from some older machine works.
Hell, a media PC to just slap next to the TV works well as well.
There is a legit argument that usages for this are very close to usages for a laptop with the lid closed, but at one point the aesthetics do become nicer, and with all the TB ports the world's a bit your oyster.
Half of RasPi usages don't involve any GPIO. Granted the RasPi's form factor is a part, but a very thin slice from some older machine works.
Hell, a media PC to just slap next to the TV works well as well.
There is a legit argument that usages for this are very close to usages for a laptop with the lid closed, but at one point the aesthetics do become nicer, and with all the TB ports the world's a bit your oyster.
There is the socket problem with desktops, if the next gen requires a different socket, you need to replace the motherboard.
There is the chipset problem with desktops, if you are wanting a feature of a newer cpu, you might need to replace the motherboard again even if the sockets match.
I don't really hear about people upgrading just their CPU, its always either more ram or more video : so to consider the cpu and motherboard as one unit, I do not think it is different than how build-your-own desktop computers are now.
(also noting that you can change the ram and add a videocard to current framework laptops).
- - -
Enthusiasts are somewhat a focus for frmaework consumption at the moment, in turn, pet projects are probably going to be the focus. Emulation-centric consoles, home servers, etc, are probably going to be a signifigant portion of old mobos
- - -
framework 16 has a dedicated video/expansion bay
There is the chipset problem with desktops, if you are wanting a feature of a newer cpu, you might need to replace the motherboard again even if the sockets match.
I don't really hear about people upgrading just their CPU, its always either more ram or more video : so to consider the cpu and motherboard as one unit, I do not think it is different than how build-your-own desktop computers are now.
(also noting that you can change the ram and add a videocard to current framework laptops).
- - -
Enthusiasts are somewhat a focus for frmaework consumption at the moment, in turn, pet projects are probably going to be the focus. Emulation-centric consoles, home servers, etc, are probably going to be a signifigant portion of old mobos
- - -
framework 16 has a dedicated video/expansion bay
For me, it is the non-soldered components. I had a real good samsung notebook, small, slick, cool, fairly expensive a when I bought it (about 2k). But one of the rams is soldered on and I give you one guess, which one had issues after warranty was over. The solution is to buy a complete new mainboard or try to fix the issues with software (linux has some features to disable defective ram segments). both options are meh, i would prefer to just swap out the defective ram.
Same with current macbooks, everything is soldered in and glued together, making repairs or upgrading impossible. the samsung notebook would work great as a second device or for one of my kids to learn. but because of some shitty anti-consumer-tactics and some saved cents, it can't easily be done.
Same with current macbooks, everything is soldered in and glued together, making repairs or upgrading impossible. the samsung notebook would work great as a second device or for one of my kids to learn. but because of some shitty anti-consumer-tactics and some saved cents, it can't easily be done.
> why would I now need a desktop computer with no expandability based on hardware worse than my laptop?
You can sell it. There might be a bigger market for a "desktop computer" than for "laptop parts". If it's useful, somebody will pay for it.
You can sell it. There might be a bigger market for a "desktop computer" than for "laptop parts". If it's useful, somebody will pay for it.
Completely agree.
It’s more wasteful than the path the we are in (full integration)
Laptop will more and more look like an Iphone (glue together, with no replaceable parts)
Every connector, every wire, every locking mechanism, every screw has a weight, cost and reliability problem. Making the system very integrated will decrease cost, weight and failures.
Apple is leading the way with their M1/M2 everything on one chip or package: cpu, gpu, ram, storage. This make them faster, cheaper, consume less energy.
Apple is leading the way with their M1/M2 everything on one chip or package: cpu, gpu, ram, storage. This make them faster, cheaper, consume less energy.
The framework laptops are still very highly integrated. Yes there's a cost to connectors, screws, etc but it is very small compared to the cost of manufacturing ICs, displays, etc.
I don't think Apple really solders on RAM and storage to save money, energy or for performance. I don't think it would make any difference to energy and I doubt it makes a significant difference to performance.
The real reasons are to save space (so there's more room for the battery) and perhaps more importantly for price differentiation. You can tell that is the case because the price difference between models that only vary in disk size is far far greater than the actual extra cost of the storage.
I don't think Apple really solders on RAM and storage to save money, energy or for performance. I don't think it would make any difference to energy and I doubt it makes a significant difference to performance.
The real reasons are to save space (so there's more room for the battery) and perhaps more importantly for price differentiation. You can tell that is the case because the price difference between models that only vary in disk size is far far greater than the actual extra cost of the storage.
Look at the performance/power of the M1/M2, this is a result of tighter integration. I agree with you Apple does a lot of price differentiation with the amount of storage/ram where it does not reflect at all the cost of the components.
At least with desktop, I upgrade storage and RAM more often than CPU. There's a few exceptions, but many laptops don't even let you do that.
frame.work solves a very real problem that happened to me with my trusty 4 year old Dell 7480: its only USB-C port is now loose and connections to it are unreliable for both data and power.
Laptop still works but it's painful to use in a now converged USB-C world.
With my frame.work if I get loose USB-C port, I just have to buy a new 10-20 EUR USB-C card, plug it and problem fixed.
Laptop still works but it's painful to use in a now converged USB-C world.
With my frame.work if I get loose USB-C port, I just have to buy a new 10-20 EUR USB-C card, plug it and problem fixed.
Seems to me the problem is a lack of imagination
This is cool. What I really want is to be able to build an array of these. Like turn a stack of old fleet framework laptops (or lenovo laptops -- something cheap and plentiful) into a little closet Kubernetes cluster. A bit like people do with raspberry pi's (k3s). Has anyone seen work out there to this end?
I’ve seen a few twists on that idea, such as this one: https://www.printables.com/model/416934-framework-as-a-serve...
Yes! I knew it was out there somewhere. Thank you.
you could build a beowulf cluster with those
I thought it would be cool to have a case for these old parts, and I'm happy to see they've thought about it and done it.
Now why not give it a catchy name?
LUC - Last Unit of Computing
NOOC - Not Out Of Commission (or probably a better acronym)
Now why not give it a catchy name?
LUC - Last Unit of Computing
NOOC - Not Out Of Commission (or probably a better acronym)
No compartment for the battery to have an integrated UPS? Seems like a missed opportunity considering the integrated charging circuit is already there and sorted out...
We thought about this, but at the point that you want to add the space for a battery, picking up an extra Bottom Cover for a Framework Laptop becomes a plausible path. We worked with Cooler Master to make this case as minimal as possible.
Love how you guys engage the community directly like this.
I just think it would have produced a genuinely differentiated desktop PC offering moving more units, if it could have optionally accepted the laptop battery somewhere like behind the mainboard...
Also creates someplace useful for a tired framework battery to live a second life when refreshing one's laptop.
I just think it would have produced a genuinely differentiated desktop PC offering moving more units, if it could have optionally accepted the laptop battery somewhere like behind the mainboard...
Also creates someplace useful for a tired framework battery to live a second life when refreshing one's laptop.
I think it would be really cool if there was a way to make one of these that repurpose the laptop display port as a built in DisplayPort or find a way to make a power adapter (maybe Ethernet, too?) not take up one of the 4 available ports. That would make it an insta-buy for me since otherwise I'm having to plug in a keyboard, mouse, and display and I'm left with a portless desktop machine.
Totally or even have a case with a touch screen display built in like some RPi setups
This might breath life back into my Gen 11,which has a graphics problem. Would to have it live as a fileserver.
I love the size of that case. I've been looking for a tiny case that can fit a GPU. This doesn't look like that though. It doesn't have to fit the largest GPU - I'd be happy if it can fit a gtx 3060. Does anyone have recommendations?
This[1] is the closest I could find and it fits a 4090. But it's still biggish and costs $280, which is a bit too much to spend on a case.
[1] https://formdworks.com/collections/t1-1/products/t1-sandwich...
This[1] is the closest I could find and it fits a 4090. But it's still biggish and costs $280, which is a bit too much to spend on a case.
[1] https://formdworks.com/collections/t1-1/products/t1-sandwich...
Also pointed out in a comment several days ago, leading to some discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35282851.
The whole Framework idea is something I never even dared to wish for. I always wanted to build a laptop the way I build a desktop. And I recently built a HTPC by dismantling my custom-built file server, and a device made from recycled laptop parts would have made much more sense. I don't have much use for a laptop at the moment (my current one is from 2017 and I hardly use it), but if I did, I'd go for a Framework in an instant.
The interesting thing about this is not the case itself, but that we're starting to see novel benefits from having open, modular laptop hardware.
I've been daily driving various Macs since the release of the Mac Mini in 2023. I love the "it just works" promise of the hardware but honestly I'm not terribly excited about the software these days, especially all the cloud stuff. Once my current hardware snuffs it there is a very high chance that a Framework laptop will be my next machine.
I want to build a pc from scratch with this. I was on the framework site last week looking for a compact desktop option to build an Debian system.
*edit not Ubuntu given this post on the state of package management: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35354729
*edit not Ubuntu given this post on the state of package management: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35354729
Why must it be an "old" laptop?
Get a new board and use it like a portable desktop.
I bet many people don't ever use those PCs but in 2 places (home, work)
I bet many people don't ever use those PCs but in 2 places (home, work)
Okay this is good. I hope what we're seeing here is another revolution like the original PC "open architecture" but one that's usable for laptops and possibly other devices.
Still, the original components themselves aren't open source, right? Just the interfaces like PCs?
Still, the original components themselves aren't open source, right? Just the interfaces like PCs?
It would be nice if they'd offer something FCC compliant rather than unshielded eye candy.
Would you mind elaborating? I’m not sure what to look for that would raise that concern. I’m guessing something about the wifi antenna?
All computer hardware like this emits some amount of electromagnetic interference. Although it looks cool to have a computer that is just a bare open board, the reality is you should really be shielding your hardware. It may not look as cool, but it’s kinder to the surrounding environment and respectful of others. Otherwise this is like the computer equivalent of running loud aftermarket exhausts on some shitty car. Not cool or smart.
In principle I completely agree. But I’m equal measures ignorant and skeptical of this topic. How much EM radiation can those parts emit? Is this a problem in theory, or is it all but guaranteed to screw with other devices?
The flimsy plastic case your laptop came in is no better or worse. People need something to complain about.
Most of the shielding is done with metal lids/cans on the board already.
Not to mention I'm unsure what the original complaint even was - the Framework laptop has a lengthy list of certifications, including ones from the FCC[1].
[1] https://downloads.frame.work/manuals/Framework-Online-User-M...
Most of the shielding is done with metal lids/cans on the board already.
Not to mention I'm unsure what the original complaint even was - the Framework laptop has a lengthy list of certifications, including ones from the FCC[1].
[1] https://downloads.frame.work/manuals/Framework-Online-User-M...
The flimsy plastic case has a conductive spray on the inside. That's how it becomes legal for sale.
This is a professionally manufactured case, made by Cooler Master and designed by Framework, for first-party sale within the US.
That still doesn’t mean it has any shielding. It’s being sold as a case, not a computer, so it doesn’t need FCC certification. If you want to, you can 3D print it yourself. And the cover is a clear piece of plastic.
This isn’t a well shielded case.
This isn’t a well shielded case.
Are we railing against all unshielded boards, or just this one in particular?
There's vastly more Raspberry Pi's in the world, almost all of which live in clear plastic cases if they have any case at all. All of the home built computers, pretty much the same...
There's more bare-board crypto mining rigs than laptops Framework has ever sold.
This "shieldless" case harms no one.
The alternative for the owner is discarding the hardware. If Framework sells enough laptops maybe they'll make a more "properly engineered" secondary-use case down the road. For right now, it effectively recycles old hardware, and that's a pretty good win.
There's vastly more Raspberry Pi's in the world, almost all of which live in clear plastic cases if they have any case at all. All of the home built computers, pretty much the same...
There's more bare-board crypto mining rigs than laptops Framework has ever sold.
This "shieldless" case harms no one.
The alternative for the owner is discarding the hardware. If Framework sells enough laptops maybe they'll make a more "properly engineered" secondary-use case down the road. For right now, it effectively recycles old hardware, and that's a pretty good win.
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Yea, wide open computer cases exist, but that doesn’t mean the FCC would approve.
Since there are no computer components sold with the case, it doesn’t need FCC certification. It is the responsibility of the end user to comply with all local regulation. Pretty simple to understand.
Since there are no computer components sold with the case, it doesn’t need FCC certification. It is the responsibility of the end user to comply with all local regulation. Pretty simple to understand.
Lots of "it depends". Another computing device? Not going to care. Someone doing research in the National Radio Quiet Zone? Probably more sensitive.
Something like this computer unlikely to throw off enough radiated emissions for anybody other than the owner to care.
Something like this computer unlikely to throw off enough radiated emissions for anybody other than the owner to care.
The grey hairs want all computers to exist inside beige metal boxes.
And the gray beards want something that won't throw off so much RF you can pick it up in your fillings. You don't need a beige box for that, just something that's had five minutes of actual engineering applied to it.
aluminum foil is for hats
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I'm genuinely curious about this because I've always seen all the fcc stickers and never bothered to think much beyond "oh nice that means it won't electroshock me I guess?" I didn't realize they were about actual electromagnetic interference.
So like, what's bad about that? For example, I life in an apartment with concrete walls, ceiling, and floor. Is there a risk I'll affect my neighbor's pacemaker with my extensive collection of electronics, probably many of which are poorly shielded? Is this affecting my network cables running hither thither in the apartment, or the switch plopped on top of a pile of cords with a raspberry pi sitting bare on top of it? My steam link downstairs? Is it causing cancer? Making my audio quality worse in my speakers? Basically, what should I be worried about, here?
So like, what's bad about that? For example, I life in an apartment with concrete walls, ceiling, and floor. Is there a risk I'll affect my neighbor's pacemaker with my extensive collection of electronics, probably many of which are poorly shielded? Is this affecting my network cables running hither thither in the apartment, or the switch plopped on top of a pile of cords with a raspberry pi sitting bare on top of it? My steam link downstairs? Is it causing cancer? Making my audio quality worse in my speakers? Basically, what should I be worried about, here?
I'm sort of disappointed they didn't just release STL files! Although, I wonder if PLA could hold up to the temperatures of using this as a server with decent workloads (I assume it could but not sure).
Be so nice to have VESA mounts so it sandwiched between a monitor and the stand.
Hmm what's the power consumption of these (parts of) laptops?
And how bad it is power wise and cpu wise to have usb-c ethernet instead of pci?
Thinking home server here.
And how bad it is power wise and cpu wise to have usb-c ethernet instead of pci?
Thinking home server here.
To you question regarding Ethernet, USB-C is capable of running faster than gigabit. I think it's around 5 gigabit? The PCIe lane from an add-in card is still being used in either case. The power difference would be negligible.
But at what CPU usage cost? And thus, power usage. On the CPU side not the adapter side.
What a weird colloboration. Now take my money!
> Framework’s mainboards, which come in its 13-inch laptop and are also sold separately as of 2022, are composed of the motherboard
So now we can set up a full Framework mini-desktop, but not ITX standard?
Is Framework stuff compatible with ITX specs? Or is this a new "standard" form factor?
So now we can set up a full Framework mini-desktop, but not ITX standard?
Is Framework stuff compatible with ITX specs? Or is this a new "standard" form factor?
These would make a great blade server rack :p
Does it have a power supply unit?
It's a laptop, you can run it with any USB-C power supply that has enough power.
"all you need for a powered up computer is the Cooler Master Mainboard Case, memory, storage, WiFi or an Ethernet Expansion Card, USB-C Power Adapter and a display."
"all you need for a powered up computer is the Cooler Master Mainboard Case, memory, storage, WiFi or an Ethernet Expansion Card, USB-C Power Adapter and a display."
I love what framework is doing but the fundamental choice of laptop for me is always battery life. If I can't pull the laptop off the dock in the morning and ride into the office without packing a charger, I'm not a buyer. MacBooks are the only laptops doing this reliably.
This is demonstrably false — I have two 2018 Thinkpad T480 laptops, one running Windows and the other Linux. The windows one gets around 11 hours of moderate use per charge, and the Linux one about 10. And I bought these used with batteries that had quite a few cycles on them already. Laptops with long battery life are out there; Apple machines are not the only option!
FWIW, Framework also announced a new battery with the same form factor but another 10%-ish capacity. And because the system's amazingly easy to disassemble, if your battery starts to lose capacity, it's trivial to swap in a replacement.
I do the "unplug and spend a couple of hours hacking without a charger" thing all the time with mine, and mine's using the previous-generation battery. Not running Windows seems to help a surprising amount.
I do the "unplug and spend a couple of hours hacking without a charger" thing all the time with mine, and mine's using the previous-generation battery. Not running Windows seems to help a surprising amount.
I've noticed the exact opposite with my 11th gen i5 Framework (purchased in December 2021). For the life of me, I cannot figure out why my Framework laptop seems to massively drain battery life when I am using Linux. I've tried just about every distro under the sun (Fedora, Ubuntu, Arch, Debian, Gentoo, and even FreeBSD) and I consistently get a battery drain of like 7-10% every 20 minutes doing something simple like watching a YouTube video, reading things in Firefox reader mode, and having an IRC client open.
When I said "screw it" and installed Windows, seemingly my battery woes went away. I used pretty much the same programs (Firefox and Weechat) on both operating systems and I'm pretty much completely stumped. I thought about asking out to Framework support but I don't know what good that would do.
Another issue I've had is not being able to let the thing sit overnight not on the charger since it drains about 10% an hour with the lid closed in both Windows and Linux, so I'm having to remember to leave it plugged in or know that I'm going to be tethered to the wall in the morning.
Regardless of those negatives, I think Framework as a company has done some pretty tremendous things in the laptop space and I hope they continue to do so in the future.
When I said "screw it" and installed Windows, seemingly my battery woes went away. I used pretty much the same programs (Firefox and Weechat) on both operating systems and I'm pretty much completely stumped. I thought about asking out to Framework support but I don't know what good that would do.
Another issue I've had is not being able to let the thing sit overnight not on the charger since it drains about 10% an hour with the lid closed in both Windows and Linux, so I'm having to remember to leave it plugged in or know that I'm going to be tethered to the wall in the morning.
Regardless of those negatives, I think Framework as a company has done some pretty tremendous things in the laptop space and I hope they continue to do so in the future.
This was true in the age before USB-C. Every single computer had a different proprietary connector or weirdly wonky barrel charger with nonstandard voltages.
Now you can borrow an USB-C charger from anyone - I've used my Steam Deck charger to charge my laptop (it didn't really charge it as it just slowed down the battery drain, but still it got me through the day). Even a phone charger is better than anything, the extra 10-20W will give you a slight boost in runtime.
Now you can borrow an USB-C charger from anyone - I've used my Steam Deck charger to charge my laptop (it didn't really charge it as it just slowed down the battery drain, but still it got me through the day). Even a phone charger is better than anything, the extra 10-20W will give you a slight boost in runtime.
> MacBooks are the only laptops doing this reliably.
My ZenBook happily did 16 hours or more a few times (it claimed 22 out of the box though I never needed to ask it to while I was monitoring), though it doesn't seem to do as well now (it has seen regular use for about three years). There are other designs on the market with similar claims too.
Most people are looking for something that is just movable when getting a laptop though with power being available most of the time, so double a working day (or more) battery life isn't something that sells big (especially if there is the option to trade it for cost or weight) which is part of why you don't see many laptops even trying.
(gaming marketed laptops and other high-power units are a different kettle of fish, you expect and get less life with that sort of use case even with a huge heavy battery or two)
My ZenBook happily did 16 hours or more a few times (it claimed 22 out of the box though I never needed to ask it to while I was monitoring), though it doesn't seem to do as well now (it has seen regular use for about three years). There are other designs on the market with similar claims too.
Most people are looking for something that is just movable when getting a laptop though with power being available most of the time, so double a working day (or more) battery life isn't something that sells big (especially if there is the option to trade it for cost or weight) which is part of why you don't see many laptops even trying.
(gaming marketed laptops and other high-power units are a different kettle of fish, you expect and get less life with that sort of use case even with a huge heavy battery or two)
1. It positions itself as part of the pro-repair crowd, which is already the crowd that supports building your own machine, and therefore buying CoolerMaster cases. That builds consumer trust.
2. It supports the framework ecosystem, strengthening the incentive to buy a framework laptop for more people - who could later purchase one of these cases as their needs change.