Framework Laptop 13 Review(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
Framework Laptop 13 Review
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/may/17/framework-laptop-13-review-modular-pc-upgrade-performance
52 comments
Cooler Master makes a case for them:
https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case
https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/cases/mainboard-case/fr...
https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case
https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/cases/mainboard-case/fr...
The 3:2 screen is great for coding on the go. Crisp & bright. Will grab the 2nd gen hinges and matte screen when they are in stock.
Much better review of new generation framework laptop - https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i7-1370P-performance-debu...
While I don't doubt that "notebookcheck.net" does a better laptop review than The Guardian, I do consider the fact that The Guardian is reviewing this upstart laptop vendor to be independently notable.
Indeed. Thanks.
I just bought a MacBook Air with M2 yesterday after careful evaluation of Framework 13 for my needs.
The tinkerer/engineer in me loves most things about Framework against the MacBook Air.
However, a big con was the lack of s2idle sleep and its impact on battery life. I use a Mac for work, and have been spoilt with a machine that lasts longer than a day, and reliably and fastly come back to life when I open the lid. Intel and AMD have crippled their CPUs to disable deep sleep states to prevent such bliss. I don’t want my laptop to lose power while it sits in my backpack and supposed to be doing nothing.
It’s a shame because it appears atleast the Ryzen CPU listed by framework claims to have almost caught up with the base M2. May be the younger version of me that had enough spare time to deal with unreliable sleep/resume troubles would have chosen Framework over the MacBook Air.
I just bought a MacBook Air with M2 yesterday after careful evaluation of Framework 13 for my needs.
The tinkerer/engineer in me loves most things about Framework against the MacBook Air.
However, a big con was the lack of s2idle sleep and its impact on battery life. I use a Mac for work, and have been spoilt with a machine that lasts longer than a day, and reliably and fastly come back to life when I open the lid. Intel and AMD have crippled their CPUs to disable deep sleep states to prevent such bliss. I don’t want my laptop to lose power while it sits in my backpack and supposed to be doing nothing.
It’s a shame because it appears atleast the Ryzen CPU listed by framework claims to have almost caught up with the base M2. May be the younger version of me that had enough spare time to deal with unreliable sleep/resume troubles would have chosen Framework over the MacBook Air.
> Intel and AMD have crippled their CPUs to disable deep sleep states to prevent such bliss
AFAIK it's not the CPUs, rather, the motherboards. I have two modern Ryzen systems; one supports S3 out of the box, the other requires some messing.
AFAIK it's not the CPUs, rather, the motherboards. I have two modern Ryzen systems; one supports S3 out of the box, the other requires some messing.
>It’s a shame because it appears atleast the Ryzen CPU listed by framework claims to have almost caught up with the base M2.
It really hasn't. Check idle watts, package watts under load, performance when unplugged, battery life, laptop chassis temperature. AMD's solutions do not come close.
It really hasn't. Check idle watts, package watts under load, performance when unplugged, battery life, laptop chassis temperature. AMD's solutions do not come close.
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"Very Loud Under Heavy Loads" ... I wonder how hard it is to tune that away. There is no particular need to let these CPUs ramp up to 60W. If it were up to me I would offer a U-series CPU option that can be configured down to 12W.
Both seem to be Windows reviews, any Linux ones around?
Plenty for earlier generations. Not sure about the recent models. They made chassis, battery, and power consumption (firmware) improvements.
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For earlier versions there was more commentary and information about Linux support. If we're comparing this with other consumer hardware, then it's just okay and I don't think it really stands out.
When I upgrade my current Framework, I'll still be looking for top of the line build quality and performance, running Linux out of the box. Right now Linux is a DIY option, and power management is frequently discussed in the community. There are also display quirks that I simply choose to overlook. To be considered successful, I'd expect to get it added as a laptop option at work. Not sure we're there yet.
When I upgrade my current Framework, I'll still be looking for top of the line build quality and performance, running Linux out of the box. Right now Linux is a DIY option, and power management is frequently discussed in the community. There are also display quirks that I simply choose to overlook. To be considered successful, I'd expect to get it added as a laptop option at work. Not sure we're there yet.
We provide official technical support for Ubuntu LTS and Fedora. Since architecturally, 13th Gen and 12th Gen processors are quite similar, and 12th Gen is now fairly mature, 13th Gen functionality is already stable. The power improvements span both Windows and Linux (61Wh battery with i7 configs, 13th Gen being more efficient, and firmware improvements on the system and Expansion Cards to reduce retimer power consumption).
That's extremely good to know. I hadn't seen the officially supported Linux distributions, or your guide on Fedora. Thanks!
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I really like my Framework 13 but I wish I had waited.
1. for the AMD chip
2. for the Framework 16
1. for the AMD chip
2. for the Framework 16
You will be able to swap your mainboard for the AMD one.
That's really cool. Takes care of one of my points.
I wonder if I can get the 16" laptop without a mainboard? Might as well just get the Framework 16 with AMD mainboard in that case.
I wonder if I can get the 16" laptop without a mainboard? Might as well just get the Framework 16 with AMD mainboard in that case.
> I wonder if I can get the 16" laptop without a mainboard?
I don’t think so. But will probably be able to swap its mainboard, too, and sell the original one. (That is at least when there is a second one available for the 16“. I don’t think the 13“ mainboard will work there and vice versa bc of the GPU module connector.)
I don’t think so. But will probably be able to swap its mainboard, too, and sell the original one. (That is at least when there is a second one available for the 16“. I don’t think the 13“ mainboard will work there and vice versa bc of the GPU module connector.)
Regarding framework in general (I have 12th gen): I'd like a full-size SD card expansion card for trasferring photos.
Other than that and my 12th gen is nearly perfect. A few really minor things that are probably software issues.
Other than that and my 12th gen is nearly perfect. A few really minor things that are probably software issues.
Can I get it with a thinkpad like nub? I despise trackpads
If they only would add localized keyboards.
Still no Scandinavian layout and they don't sell it here either...
Eventually they will come up with this. You have to consider Framework being a startup and, hence, not being HP or Lenovo in their production and shipping capacities.
In the mean time, go for a US keyboard and swap it for Scandinavian one when available.
In the mean time, go for a US keyboard and swap it for Scandinavian one when available.
> In the mean time, go for a US keyboard and swap it for Scandinavian one when available.
UK layout (or indeed, any ISO layout) is closer to Scandinavian: same physical layout, just different keys printed.
UK layout (or indeed, any ISO layout) is closer to Scandinavian: same physical layout, just different keys printed.
It would be weird if they had the layout and didn't sell into that market yet wouldn't it?
They've tended to add appropriate layouts as they've expanded markets afaict.
They've tended to add appropriate layouts as they've expanded markets afaict.
Would a blank ISO keyboard work?
My Google skills are failing me and I can't seem to get a clear answer if the Scandinavian layout fits on ISO keys.
My Google skills are failing me and I can't seem to get a clear answer if the Scandinavian layout fits on ISO keys.
Scandinavian layout (often called "ISO-nordic") is the exact same ISO/IEC 9995 standard as all other ISO keyboards. Same physical layout. Just a few keys/legends mapped differently.
Thanks, Swiss German missing either.
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Really really like this, but trackpad without physical buttons I just cannot work with, and it seems that's one of the areas that is not configurable.
the 16" version can swap trackpad, keyboard etc, so I assume there will be at some point trackpad with buttons
That's nice to hear, but 16" is awfully big. I know, I'm hard to satisfy... So I'll probably just continue to buy old Thinkpads, as they are my "Frameworks" as they are also incredibly serviceable. But well, they are starting to get pretty slow...
I can't handle touchpads that don't let you tap to click
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GPU?
The Framework Laptop 13 uses the integrated graphics in the processor. 13th Gen's integrated Intel Xe is passable for lighter titles like GTA V or CS:GO. Beyond that, it supports Thunderbolt eGPUs. We also have the Framework Laptop 16 shipping late this year that has an optional dGPU.
Thanks for the timeline. I am a big fan of Framework and I am really impressed with what you guys are doing, but I have certain requirements and need a laptop with a dedicated GPU.
Keep up the good work.
Keep up the good work.
Like the Intel models, the AMD versions will come with an eGPU (the Zen 4 chiplet being the more powerful one). In both cases, it is possible to attach an external GPU via thunderbolt / USB4 if you need it.
I think the 16" version has a GPU
> Intel Core i7-1370P
What fresh hell is this? Is this CPU model missing a digit or what?
What fresh hell is this? Is this CPU model missing a digit or what?
45 minutes later I had my old lid and screen removed and my new one installed with no tools beyond their provided torx screwdriver. It was amazing to be able to do that and not need to replace the entire laptop or mail it in for service! While I had it open I installed another 16gb stick of RAM to bump up to 32gb total.
I'm debating getting the upgraded motherboard... I may wait another year or two when the performance gap is larger and I find another purpose for the old motherboard. I could 3d print a case for it and use it as a home server, gitlab build runner or bench PC. It's really cool how flexible it is!
The raw specs are not the best, the battery life could be better, but I appreciate the mod ability.