A look inside the SNES, PS5, and Xbox controllers with CT scans(scanofthemonth.com)
scanofthemonth.com
A look inside the SNES, PS5, and Xbox controllers with CT scans
https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/gamepads
137 comments
One of the things I like about the Xbox Pad when used with a PC is that when a wired headphone is plugged in to the controller, the pad appears as a new audio device and routes the audio to your headphones. I use the pads via the wireless dongle (Via virtualhere from my Shield), but may work via wired usb or bluetooth.
As much as I agree the PS5 controller is better technically, the xbox pad works better with a PC. Compatibility wise, not many games take advantage of the haptic feedback triggers.
As much as I agree the PS5 controller is better technically, the xbox pad works better with a PC. Compatibility wise, not many games take advantage of the haptic feedback triggers.
Interesting. I get this controller headphone port feature when using the PS5, it's too bad it doesn't carry over to PC.
It does work on PC when plugged in via USB. Bluetooth support for controllers on Windows is terrible without 3rd party programs like DS4Windows.
I like the Dualsense controller but it's obvious that for Sony PC support is still an afterthought.
Playing wired is so 2002.
Playing wired is so 2002.
The ps5 controller, just like the PS4 controller, are succumbed to the dreaded stick drifting issue. I play Call of Duty and this stick drifting issue has made me own more than 4-5 controllers for each generation. At this point I have a conspiracy theory that Sony intentionally not fixing this. My friends in the Xbox camp say they never experienced this issue.
What makes this situation even more frustrating is that analog sticks have been around for a long time now. I still have controllers from the PS2/GC/Xbox era that work just fine after all these years and countless hours of play, and have no drift whatsoever.
Even the earliest analog sticks like the N64 (Which used LEDs for tracking) didn't suffer from drift — although it did wear out considerably mechanically!
I just bit the bullet and replaced my Joycon's sticks with 3rd party hall-sensing ones, which have worked great so far.
Even the earliest analog sticks like the N64 (Which used LEDs for tracking) didn't suffer from drift — although it did wear out considerably mechanically!
I just bit the bullet and replaced my Joycon's sticks with 3rd party hall-sensing ones, which have worked great so far.
Even more frustrating, its not even that difficult to fix. All they need to do is implement a renormalization routine.
If you find your controller is drifting, then the console just needs some menu where you put the stick to a bunch of reference locations, and then the stick maps outs its own response and renormalizes. "This is neutral." "This is upper-left as far as it goes." "This is..." ect... Maybe even with fine grain mapping adjust if the player really wants control over drifting behavior.
If you find your controller is drifting, then the console just needs some menu where you put the stick to a bunch of reference locations, and then the stick maps outs its own response and renormalizes. "This is neutral." "This is upper-left as far as it goes." "This is..." ect... Maybe even with fine grain mapping adjust if the player really wants control over drifting behavior.
The Switch has this but when the sticks get bad it's often not fixable with that kind of calibration.
I also have had stick drift due to COD and in the menu you can doing something similar to this by controlling how much default stick is pushed.
You set high sensitivity and the cursor moves with hand off the controller in a certain direction. You adjust the counter-drift until the cursor doesn't move at all.
You set high sensitivity and the cursor moves with hand off the controller in a certain direction. You adjust the counter-drift until the cursor doesn't move at all.
In my experience this would not solve the issue.
They had this calibration on PCs decades ago
Yeah, the same problem exists on the Switch. The console manufacturers should have switched to more expensive Hall effect sticks, which are not affected by this problem. I think the XBox controller also doesn't have them, but maybe they use simply higher quality parts here.
I'm pretty sure all the manufacturers have this problem pretty much equally, at least on their "normal" controllers. Nintendo worse probably just due to the very constrained available size.
You see users of all the consoles anecdotally reporting drift problems. I haven't experienced personally any drift on my PS4 or PS5 controllers, nor an Xbox controller used for a PC. I did have it happen pretty significantly on a Switch Lite.
I also think there's probably an aspect of personal usage patterns: maybe if you're just going through sticks constantly, you apply more pressure, or just use them more, or have something like a dusty environment wearing them out faster.
You see users of all the consoles anecdotally reporting drift problems. I haven't experienced personally any drift on my PS4 or PS5 controllers, nor an Xbox controller used for a PC. I did have it happen pretty significantly on a Switch Lite.
I also think there's probably an aspect of personal usage patterns: maybe if you're just going through sticks constantly, you apply more pressure, or just use them more, or have something like a dusty environment wearing them out faster.
Never experienced this on modern Xbox controllers, but I did get it significantly on N64. Seems like it should be fixed if they use hall sensors or encoders but I haven’t actually looked inside one.
Here's an interesting video I just watched of someone making a hardware mod for existing controllers using a rotary encoder hall effect position sensor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAsrLxaAkY0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAsrLxaAkY0
It might be a coincidence, but I bought the DualSense Edge and while I think it's overpriced, the sticks seem much more precise. Does anyone know if the Edge is using hall effect sticks? At more than double the price of the regular controller, I'd hope they're using higher end sticks. That said, at least they can be replaced easily and relatively cheaply ($20) on the Edge.
I've had two Xbox controllers ruined by stick drift. Both camps are shipping cheaper non-Hall effect sensors in their controllers.
This issues affects all analog sticks not using hall effect ones. You can easily find examples of this hitting Xbox players too. There was even a class action lawsuit for Xbox controllers about it
Xbox one controllers are susceptible to the bumpers failing on the other hand. You can at least still play with drift.
My Xbox 360 controllers are finally starting to drift. So I wouldn't rule out the newer ones just yet.
>The XBox controller also still lacks a gyroscope
This is the big one for me. For me it is such an improvement in both "feel" and in my real performance that I cannot go back to a system without one. When MW2 released without gyro support, I played briefly but wound up putting it down until that was added in an update.
The PS4 controller had a gyro too that was essentially never utilized. I was really hoping this would be the gen when all the major vendors included it, but Microsoft, alone, opted not to.
The speakerphone built into the controller is great too. I can run all the game audio through my hifi, and still talk to my friends on in-game voice chat without using a headset.
This is the big one for me. For me it is such an improvement in both "feel" and in my real performance that I cannot go back to a system without one. When MW2 released without gyro support, I played briefly but wound up putting it down until that was added in an update.
The PS4 controller had a gyro too that was essentially never utilized. I was really hoping this would be the gen when all the major vendors included it, but Microsoft, alone, opted not to.
The speakerphone built into the controller is great too. I can run all the game audio through my hifi, and still talk to my friends on in-game voice chat without using a headset.
And yet the PS5 controller is worse at the most fundamental thing: physical ergonomics. The Xbox controller is so much more comfortable to hold and play with it doesn't even count.
For some. I can’t use the Xbox one for long without pain. The position of the left trigger is particularly bothersome.
The PS3 controller was indeed uncomfortable, but for the past two generations the two competing consoles are on par. Some find one more comfortable, others the other.
The PS3 controller was indeed uncomfortable, but for the past two generations the two competing consoles are on par. Some find one more comfortable, others the other.
Must be related to hand size or something, because I find the Xbox controller considerably more comfortable than the Playstation Controller
I’m sure that’s a factor, but not the only one. I have friends with similar hand size that don’t match me and others with different hand size that do.
Ultimately they’re both very good, which is a big improvement over previous generations.
Ultimately they’re both very good, which is a big improvement over previous generations.
The PS1/PS2/PS3 controllers were never great for people with bigger hands, but I've noticed people that really dislike them seem to try to hold them with a full palm grip.
If you have big hands it can be a lot more comfortable to instead kind of wrap your fingers around the grips but not make contact with your palms (kind of like it's a SNES controller with some extra finger grips). I don't know if this is the intended way to do it, but it feels good to me.
If you have big hands it can be a lot more comfortable to instead kind of wrap your fingers around the grips but not make contact with your palms (kind of like it's a SNES controller with some extra finger grips). I don't know if this is the intended way to do it, but it feels good to me.
I can't stand the offset sticks on the Xbox controller - feels much more natural to me to have both thumbs in the same position. And I massively prefer the shape of the PS4 controller to everything else, including PS5.
My ideal controller would be the PS4 shape and layout, but with the dpad and triggers from the Xbox one/series controller (the PS5 haptic feedback is nice, but hardly any games I play actually use it effectively, and I like the shape of the Xbox triggers more).
My ideal controller would be the PS4 shape and layout, but with the dpad and triggers from the Xbox one/series controller (the PS5 haptic feedback is nice, but hardly any games I play actually use it effectively, and I like the shape of the Xbox triggers more).
> have both thumbs in the same position.
Do you use both sticks at the same time? I think most games are left stick + buttons, meaning the Xbox would not only be symmetrical but also allow for a more relaxed extended thumb instead of the lower down ps position
Do you use both sticks at the same time? I think most games are left stick + buttons, meaning the Xbox would not only be symmetrical but also allow for a more relaxed extended thumb instead of the lower down ps position
A fun thing about the Dual sense rumble is that it's just sound data. One time u changed my PC to output to the controller, thinking it would use the speaker, but it just played the audio via vibrations.
(I'm not sure if that's just how all "linear resonant actuators" work, just found it neat)
(I'm not sure if that's just how all "linear resonant actuators" work, just found it neat)
That’s how the one in the iPhone works as well. I remember people’s surprise (myself included) when it was discovered. Teardowns revealed a second audio amp that wasn’t attached to the speaker and that’s how it was discovered to work.
It is, you can find the rumble WAV's (well, AIFF's) if you dig enough through iPhone OS dump
Owning both systems, this makes a noticeable difference when playing games. All other things being equal, if I get a choice of which system to play a game on, then I choose PlayStation for the controller alone.
I've stopped playing everything but competitive gaming on my PC to play on my PS5 controller. I've tried using the ps5 controller on my PC but the experience isn't great except with wired so I'll keep using my PS5 for some time. The games seem more optimized too.
That’s how I feel. I like both controllers, but the PlayStation controller for me is the most ‘next-gen’ thing about the consoles.
Yeah difference is so notable between! Surprised they didn’t discuss that more.
As much as I like the playstation controller, the layout has always been awkward for me. The layout of the Xbox or switch controllers always felt more easy to use for me.
opposite for me. I can't stand the xbox analog stick placements. I think it's good to have different options so people can choose what works for them.
i think the xbox layout is better for more hand types, but certain people seem to never be able to switch from playstations layout
my thumb joints still ache from beating ape escape
my thumb joints still ache from beating ape escape
I have both an XBOX Series X and a PlayStation 5.
Maybe I am too old, but I hardly feel any differene.
I am not saying it is not there, I am saying I cannot feel it.
The only difference is in the triggers, where you have to press more or less on the PS5.
Maybe I am too old, but I hardly feel any differene.
I am not saying it is not there, I am saying I cannot feel it.
The only difference is in the triggers, where you have to press more or less on the PS5.
If you start playing shooting games with gyro aim, you'll definitely feel the difference - because it's not even an option on Xbox.
As far as the haptics go, the degree to which cross-platform games use them really varies. Cold War had cool haptic triggers so you felt the recoil kick, but I don't think that was included in MW2. Some exclusives like Returnal leverage the advanced haptics in a really impressive way, too, but I don't think we'll see that in many cross platform titles.
As far as the haptics go, the degree to which cross-platform games use them really varies. Cold War had cool haptic triggers so you felt the recoil kick, but I don't think that was included in MW2. Some exclusives like Returnal leverage the advanced haptics in a really impressive way, too, but I don't think we'll see that in many cross platform titles.
Yeah, the pack-in toy title Astros Playroom for PS5 is probably the gold standard for Dualsense haptics implementations. It's legitimately immersive, and turns the game from a 'meh' generic themed platformer into an actually compelling game. I was surprised at how much fun I was having pulling cords and stomping little bug things.
What do you mean by giro aim? Moving the controller in the air to aim?
It’s more like a tilt - I use it in conjunction with the regular analog stick movement. Together, it adds an extra degree of control, and gyro is a much more sensitive and precise input than an analog stick.
It takes a little getting used to, and there’s a good number of settings parameters you can dial in to your preference (I generally like higher sensitivity and on all the time), but now I’m able to snipe across the map with a controller in fortnite nearly as well as I used to with a mouse and keyboard in battlefield 4. Playing it on an Xbox feels like using stone tools in comparison.
It takes a little getting used to, and there’s a good number of settings parameters you can dial in to your preference (I generally like higher sensitivity and on all the time), but now I’m able to snipe across the map with a controller in fortnite nearly as well as I used to with a mouse and keyboard in battlefield 4. Playing it on an Xbox feels like using stone tools in comparison.
Yes, that is exactly it. Nintendo Switch and Valve Stream deck (and even the old steam controllers) have this functionality. In the case of the Steamdeck, there are sensors in the joysticks to know if your finger is present to then allow mapping to enable/disable gyro aiming as well. Making it easier to reset the devices position in space without also aiming.
The DualSense is literally one of the best reasons to own a PlayStation 5.
After you've played some games that make full use of its advanced haptics (like Demon's Souls, Ghost of Tsushima, Gran Turismo 7, Doom Eternal), going back to other platforms (or even other PS5 games that don't use all the features) feels like something's missing from your hands.. just dead.
Graphics have been Good Enough for several years now. It's time to focus on other areas of the gaming, and the control method is the second most important part of that experience.
After you've played some games that make full use of its advanced haptics (like Demon's Souls, Ghost of Tsushima, Gran Turismo 7, Doom Eternal), going back to other platforms (or even other PS5 games that don't use all the features) feels like something's missing from your hands.. just dead.
Graphics have been Good Enough for several years now. It's time to focus on other areas of the gaming, and the control method is the second most important part of that experience.
The PS5 controller is pretty cool, however, I'd probably trade in most of that functionality for the battery life of Switch Pro controller.
Unless you constantly play more than 6 hours straight without rest, the mediocre battery of PS5 controller is not really a problem. Much less so if you have the official charging dock.
I know, it's not a huge deal, but buying a separate dock, or dealing with yet another thing to charge all the time is annoying. So personally I prefer longer battery life over a bunch of fancy features that are likely only going to be used in Playstation exclusives.
I have more than 10 controllers spanning most gaming systems, the only one that consistently runs out while playing is the ps5 one. They could have added a few more 100mAs to make it tolerable :(
I haven't picked up a Dual Shock controller in probably 5 years. How does the "heft" feel these days? I was really put off by the PS4 controller (DS4?) because of the super light, plastic-y feel.
Compare that to a Xbox Elite controller (different price tier, I know) and it feels like a cheap piece of junk.
I assume with all of this new tech the PS5 controller is a bit heftier but I was surprised how much just the weight made a different for me.
Compare that to a Xbox Elite controller (different price tier, I know) and it feels like a cheap piece of junk.
I assume with all of this new tech the PS5 controller is a bit heftier but I was surprised how much just the weight made a different for me.
I love the elite controller, best gaming peripheral I’ve owned. Melts into the hand and has back paddles
Anecdotally, the dualsense subjectively feels a lot higher quality than the Dualshock 4. I just picked up both to check.
I'm not certain how outdated it is. I'm certainly happy with it, and I imagine it adds workload to the console.
well it is objectively outdated based on the different tech and capabilities.
now as to if these are something you want or need is another question.
now as to if these are something you want or need is another question.
Not to be stuck on my old ways too hard but didn't Sony make it so you can't play PS4 games on your PS5 without an actual PS4 controller?
That sort of thing really puts me off the changes, although I accept that it pushes innovation forward.
I enjoy being able to play OG Xbox, 360, and current-gen titles with the same controller.
That sort of thing really puts me off the changes, although I accept that it pushes innovation forward.
I enjoy being able to play OG Xbox, 360, and current-gen titles with the same controller.
No, you can play PS4 (and PS3/2 via emulator or streaming) games just fine with the DS5.
There is one exception, you can't play a PSVR (1) game that requires the camera to track the light bar on the controller with a DS5, but that's very few games and for technical reasons (the DS5 does not have the light bar)
There is one exception, you can't play a PSVR (1) game that requires the camera to track the light bar on the controller with a DS5, but that's very few games and for technical reasons (the DS5 does not have the light bar)
You forgot to mention that it runs on AA batteries instead of a built in batteries that allow you to simply charge the controller.
Truly an outdated design that would force me to manage a fleet of rechargeable batteries, something I have zero desire for.
Truly an outdated design that would force me to manage a fleet of rechargeable batteries, something I have zero desire for.
Running on standard replaceable batteries is definitely a feature and not an “outdated design”, especially when it comes to sustainability. And for some devices you can also have both replaceable batteries and charging ports (e.g. some cameras offer that). But yeah, I guess wireless Xbox controllers can’t be charged directly.
Having both, I strongly prefer being able to quickly swap in some new rechargeable double A's versus having to plug in a 15 ft cord from my system to my controller on the couch. I find the latter such a hassle that when my PlayStation controller dies I stop playing.
Wonder how the elite controller stacks up.
This is definitely cool but if you want a more comprehensive teardown of the NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube controllers, this is the one:
https://www.fictiv.com/teardowns/nintendo-controller-teardow...
I just love how overbuilt the old controllers are. I still have my original SNES and controllers and as far as I can tell they work as well as the day they were made despite decades of abuse. One has bite marks... not sure if that was the dog or me playing The Lion King.
https://www.fictiv.com/teardowns/nintendo-controller-teardow...
I just love how overbuilt the old controllers are. I still have my original SNES and controllers and as far as I can tell they work as well as the day they were made despite decades of abuse. One has bite marks... not sure if that was the dog or me playing The Lion King.
I seem to remember N64 joysticks were somewhat fragile. Many of my friends as a kid had controllers with a joystick that had lost all springiness and barely responded to input.
I have not are that on any other controllers, even cheapo xbox360 clone controllers from AliExpress.
I have not are that on any other controllers, even cheapo xbox360 clone controllers from AliExpress.
The "return to center" behaviour of the N64 Control Stick is provided by a spring that pushes up against a plastic bowl which is underneath the stick. The stick itself slots through two curved plastic pieces for each axis, and the upward force basically forces the stick to 'center' at the lowest point of the bowl. The issue is as others have described. There actually never was any lubricant, so over time the bottom of the stick and the bowl just erode away. Eventually it reaches a point where the bowl is eroded away enough that the spring is no longer able to force the stick back to the center, and it just sort of flops in the dead space eroded in the bowl.
Nowadays, one can get replacement parts, and fairly easily restore/fix the problem. Add in a bit of PTFE lube or lithium grease and it greatly extends the lifespan of the replacement as well. Used to be able to get rather fancy steel bowls and analog sticks which significantly reduced the wear even more.
The more 'standard' thumbstick design has a similar self-centering mechanism. They are actually susceptible to the same problem. However, two things contribute to it being witnessed less frequently, I suspect. The first, is that the "bowl" in those sticks actually has lubricant which greatly reduces the wear, and the second is that the mechanical parts tend to outlast the potentiometers; that is, the sticks start to drift before you get the "floppy stick" problem to begin with and then you stop using it or replace the stick, and therefore it doesn't actually see enough wear to cause the floppy stick problem.
Nowadays, one can get replacement parts, and fairly easily restore/fix the problem. Add in a bit of PTFE lube or lithium grease and it greatly extends the lifespan of the replacement as well. Used to be able to get rather fancy steel bowls and analog sticks which significantly reduced the wear even more.
The more 'standard' thumbstick design has a similar self-centering mechanism. They are actually susceptible to the same problem. However, two things contribute to it being witnessed less frequently, I suspect. The first, is that the "bowl" in those sticks actually has lubricant which greatly reduces the wear, and the second is that the mechanical parts tend to outlast the potentiometers; that is, the sticks start to drift before you get the "floppy stick" problem to begin with and then you stop using it or replace the stick, and therefore it doesn't actually see enough wear to cause the floppy stick problem.
N64 controllers had an issue where once the lubricant dried out the joystick began grinding it's contained bowl into dust. It's not a springiness issue as much as it is a holder destruction. Massive design flaw.
kitsch bent makes a very good (injection molded, i believe) clone of the whole assembly. the controllers i did a few years ago actually only needed the bowl replaced. with a bit of silicone lubricant dabbed onto the places where plastic grinds together, they feel practically new again.
worlds apart from those awful gamecube style sticks that make playing quite a few games impossible.
worlds apart from those awful gamecube style sticks that make playing quite a few games impossible.
I made the mistake of falling for buying those GameCube replacement sticks. I don’t get how people can say they’re better. Objectively worse. I should really swap them back with some new original style sticks.
Modern joysticks feel more fragile in some ways. In the N64's case, game design evolved to not have us abuse them as much anymore. Palm blisters from playing Mario Party's rotate-the-stick-as-fast-as-you-can minigames were pretty common... But the controllers lasted a while, even the third party ones, even if eventually they started showing problems. I wanted some nostalgia years ago on an emulator and tried that with an xbone controller, one match of tug-of-war was all it took and I found myself having to solder in a new sensor. Since then if I get the urge again, or some other game needs me to rotate fast to win, I just lose.
The kids call it stick drift today, its a big problem on the switch I heard.
IIUC stick drift essentially means the center dead zone moves away from the physical center. The N64 joystick problem was different and worse: with wear, the center dead zone would expand, to the point that the extreme position values could not actually be achieved. So, instead of walking slowly when you want to stand still, you are unable to run at full speed.
I didn't realize that's what stick drift meant at first, because calibrating when you turn the controller on is so easy and obvious that even the N64 could do it!
I think some other controllers will correct for drift after you push them all the way in each direction.
I think some other controllers will correct for drift after you push them all the way in each direction.
After a few hundred of hours of gameplay the electrical contacts inside the stick become worn out. Once that happens the stick becomes unpredictable and calibration won't help.
With the Switch it's more specific to the sticks on Joy-Con and presumably the Switch Lite. Drift affects other controllers as well including Xbox/Playstation.
What makes the Joy-Con sticks so horrendous in my understanding is 1) they're tiny 2) the shrouds protecting particle ingress into the sensor compartment is wildly inadequate. Rather than the stick having a very large hemisphere under the primary casing and surrounding the sensor compartment, whereby particles that manage to fall in it are directed into the case cavity, the Joy-Con sticks have this dinky paper thin rubber skirt that floats on top of a convex hemisphere on the sensor housing. In use, this skirt can expose the sensor compartment directly to air or it can pick up particles on the housing and drag them into the housing.
I recently found Hall effect Joy-Con sticks on Amazon and am giving those a go right now. This issue is something I'm overly invested in as I think the combination of independent controllers and some fine details in how Splatoon (twitchy shooter) manages motion controls yields the best control scheme for a shooter even compared to mouse and keyboard. Unfortunately outside of the concept the devices are horrible.
What makes the Joy-Con sticks so horrendous in my understanding is 1) they're tiny 2) the shrouds protecting particle ingress into the sensor compartment is wildly inadequate. Rather than the stick having a very large hemisphere under the primary casing and surrounding the sensor compartment, whereby particles that manage to fall in it are directed into the case cavity, the Joy-Con sticks have this dinky paper thin rubber skirt that floats on top of a convex hemisphere on the sensor housing. In use, this skirt can expose the sensor compartment directly to air or it can pick up particles on the housing and drag them into the housing.
I recently found Hall effect Joy-Con sticks on Amazon and am giving those a go right now. This issue is something I'm overly invested in as I think the combination of independent controllers and some fine details in how Splatoon (twitchy shooter) manages motion controls yields the best control scheme for a shooter even compared to mouse and keyboard. Unfortunately outside of the concept the devices are horrible.
The n64 joystick gets a bigger and bigger deadzone. It’s different than drifting, in fact it’s quite the opposite: on the n64 you have to push harder to move your character while with the drifting you struggle to get it not to move
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You may want to open it up with a phillips head jewelery screwdriver (they don't have the lockout screws) and clean the scum off of the pads and button areas. If the rubber pads are still springy, then you are in good shape. I can tell you as a Heavy Retro Console User (with a beautiful Trinitron CRT) that the rubber pads will eventually lose their springiness... there isn't much you can do for that and there are no suitable replacements... but i will vouch that those worn out controllers have given me more than their fair share.
Pardon my pedantry, but any cross-head crews in old game consoles are likely to be JIS, not Phillips, and using a Phillips driver makes it likely to strip every single screw: https://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/300
Oh wow! i had no idea; i honestly just used smaller sized phillips heads to compensate for this apparent head gap size difference. Thanks for the info!
The SNES controller is a beautiful thing because it's literally just a bit shift register wired up to the buttons. Super simple to emulate it, make an adapter for it, or be compatible with it.
Not to mention is still very comfortable, especially for its size. And it's basically the pinnacle of 2D controller design when it comes to functionality.
Best 2D controller is the Japanese saturn one. Better ergonomics, six face buttons and even shoulder buttons.
You can still buy USB variants of the Sega Saturn controller on AMazon.
Too big, SNES's d-pad is better. The 6 face buttons on the Saturn is better only for Street Fighter, a single game. If you're that into Street Fighter, get an arcade stick.
Remember those translucent DualShock controllers for PS2? There was nothing cooler than watching the little motor spin around when you activated rumble in-game. I'd love if Sony put out a similar style DualSense for PS5.
You can get a translucent replacement chassis for pretty much any game peripheral and put it on yourself, just hit up AliExpress with $3 and a lot of patience
Does anyone know how accurate these are to the raw data a CT scan produces, it looks really clean, has it been touched up any significant amount or is this actually the quality of the machines?
I've seen slightly better scans from the Lumafield machine I have access to at $DAYJOB, but only slightly better. The scans shown here are very high quality.
You don't get access to raw data, assuming you mean something like individual X-ray images. The service runs the tomography on some cluster in the cloud and you get access to the reconstruction through a web app.
You don't get access to raw data, assuming you mean something like individual X-ray images. The service runs the tomography on some cluster in the cloud and you get access to the reconstruction through a web app.
The scans you see on this website are from Lumafield machines, so that does check out.
Radiologist?
No, I am a software engineer at a writing instruments company... long story.
Oh interesting. The writing instrument company needs scans this good?
Yes, and I wish it was even more accurate :)
Doing metrology on production parts normally means disassembling them and putting them under the microscope or X-raying them, but sometimes there are problems that only manifest when the pen is assembled and closed. There's a lot of geometry that isn't visible externally in a pen, more so in certain markers. The writing systems are very sensitive to manufacturing tolerances, and out of spec parts are perceived by users as a bad pen or marker (which we don't want). With a normal X-ray, it is very difficult to resolve internal geometry deep in the assembled pen with any degree of accuracy.
CT scans allow us to examine internal geometry non-destructively and they are relatively fast to run. The scans shown in that blog post I would guess took about 6-8 hours of scanning + 1 hour of reconstruction to generate. Once you start the machine, it's completely automated from there, so you don't need a technician or an engineer sitting at the X-ray machine (which BTW is running Windows XP or something worse) takings images of parts.
Doing metrology on production parts normally means disassembling them and putting them under the microscope or X-raying them, but sometimes there are problems that only manifest when the pen is assembled and closed. There's a lot of geometry that isn't visible externally in a pen, more so in certain markers. The writing systems are very sensitive to manufacturing tolerances, and out of spec parts are perceived by users as a bad pen or marker (which we don't want). With a normal X-ray, it is very difficult to resolve internal geometry deep in the assembled pen with any degree of accuracy.
CT scans allow us to examine internal geometry non-destructively and they are relatively fast to run. The scans shown in that blog post I would guess took about 6-8 hours of scanning + 1 hour of reconstruction to generate. Once you start the machine, it's completely automated from there, so you don't need a technician or an engineer sitting at the X-ray machine (which BTW is running Windows XP or something worse) takings images of parts.
I’m a radiographer, but haven’t done CT in a long time.
These look cleaned up, as the metal artifact from dense things is minimal.
I’ve scanned things then converted the Dicom file into a format suitable for printing (I’d broken a part of a coffee grinder). These images look like the item when moves to a 3D print in format.
Side story: finding out what’s inside things is what CT is for. We used to scan the chip packets before loading them into the vending machine. We sort out the ones with prizes inside.
These look cleaned up, as the metal artifact from dense things is minimal.
I’ve scanned things then converted the Dicom file into a format suitable for printing (I’d broken a part of a coffee grinder). These images look like the item when moves to a 3D print in format.
Side story: finding out what’s inside things is what CT is for. We used to scan the chip packets before loading them into the vending machine. We sort out the ones with prizes inside.
Ha! I'm with Lumafield--we've actually done the same thing, scanning bags of Doritos, Cheetos, and Ruffles: https://www.lumafield.com/article/bite-into-doritos-ruffles-...
To answer the question about whether these are cleaned up, these scans aren't processed beyond what our software does automatically during the reconstruction. Industrial CT scanners are designed to scan a wider range of material densities than medical scanners. We use some copper filtration to scan parts with lots of dense materials, but no extra processing is required once we've reconstructed the model.
To answer the question about whether these are cleaned up, these scans aren't processed beyond what our software does automatically during the reconstruction. Industrial CT scanners are designed to scan a wider range of material densities than medical scanners. We use some copper filtration to scan parts with lots of dense materials, but no extra processing is required once we've reconstructed the model.
> In 1991, the Super Nintendo (SNES) controller added two more buttons and took on a (slightly) more ergonomic design.
Talk about attention to detail: the SNES controller added 4 more buttons (you have to count the shoulders).
Talk about attention to detail: the SNES controller added 4 more buttons (you have to count the shoulders).
I’m glad it wasn’t just me. SMH
It's a shame everything used to come with a diagram. Now we resort to CT and x-rays.
Blame intellectual property theft. I'm sure there's a right to repair angle in there as well but my guess would be that it's mainly driven by IP.
I had a friend who worked on electronics about 20 years ago. Suddenly they were facing a flood of reverse engineered devices coming out of China. The build quality was lower than their official devices but it was hard for customers to tell the difference and they were undercutting them on price enough to crater the companies revenues.
Enforcing patents and other IP was basically a non-starter even when they tracked down the shops in China.
Eventually they ended up just partnering with them and selling the lower quality and cheaper versions of their devices because they couldn't compete and all the work they had done to design, test, prototype, etc was written off as a loss.
I had a friend who worked on electronics about 20 years ago. Suddenly they were facing a flood of reverse engineered devices coming out of China. The build quality was lower than their official devices but it was hard for customers to tell the difference and they were undercutting them on price enough to crater the companies revenues.
Enforcing patents and other IP was basically a non-starter even when they tracked down the shops in China.
Eventually they ended up just partnering with them and selling the lower quality and cheaper versions of their devices because they couldn't compete and all the work they had done to design, test, prototype, etc was written off as a loss.
At least controllers usually are pretty easy to open up and teardown. When I read the title my first thought was "why not just use a screw driver to see inside?"
DualShock controllers are the best, tactile, haptic feedback and gyroscope
Nintendo's joycons also pretty novel, you just clip them on your console in/out and you unlock new ways to play, OP should have included them too, I'm curious now.. a shame its build quality is one of the worst of this decade
Xbox's one is pretty basic and conservative, wich is a shame..
Nintendo's joycons also pretty novel, you just clip them on your console in/out and you unlock new ways to play, OP should have included them too, I'm curious now.. a shame its build quality is one of the worst of this decade
Xbox's one is pretty basic and conservative, wich is a shame..
I don't want controllers to keep changing. I love the Xbox controller.
I also have a PS5 and a switch, but those controllers don't feel good in my hand. The PS5 haptics don't add much IMO, but hurt battery life enough that I'd rather just turn them off.
I also have a PS5 and a switch, but those controllers don't feel good in my hand. The PS5 haptics don't add much IMO, but hurt battery life enough that I'd rather just turn them off.
My main complaint with the PS5 controller is that it's a terrible remote control for streaming services. The triggers are constantly being activated just by setting it down on its back and if it falls on its front the sicks move causing video to fast forward or rewind. It seems to fall off the arms of chairs and couches easily too. When you're holding it like a controller though it's fine.
My minor complaint is that it came with two internal microphones, but thankfully it's very easy to open the controller up and rip them out.
My minor complaint is that it came with two internal microphones, but thankfully it's very easy to open the controller up and rip them out.
Luckily, the Xbox controller fundamentals have changed relatively little since the move from the Duke to the S controller during the life of the original xbox. I say luckily, because I feel they got pretty close to the optimum design around then, and later enhancements have been about mostly shuffling the battery components around.
Most games don't take advantage of haptics, but the ones that do have been pretty cool IME. The physical feedback made web-slinging in the new Spider-Man super fun and engaging, and Returnal used trigger pressure to switch between your weapon's main firing mode and secondary firing mode (and used audio/haptic feedback to let you know when the secondary mode was off cooldown).
Layout seems to be mostly locked in. Apart from back buttons from elite controllers. What we really need are more controller sizes. It's ridiculous they're still one-size fits all.
Well, I use a controller to game and interact with the game, the most ways to game, the more fun I have
Hence why I bought a Nintendo Switch, the premise is: to have fun
Hence why I bought a Nintendo Switch, the premise is: to have fun
The only reason I've put off buying a switch is because the controllers are so bad. Even assuming they've finally fixed all the issues with drift and wireless, the controls are cramped and the buttons so so tiny!
Doesn't nintendo sell a bigger better controller? I forgot what it's called, but it's much higher quality than the default ones and feels really good in the hand.
That's good to know! It somewhat diminishes it's usefulness as a portable system but it beats having to put up with that insane d-pad and baby buttons. I'm still kind of hoping for a switch XL...
I think the Japanese have smaller hands to begin with, and Nintendo's controllers have always been small and uncomfortable. It was a much better experience playing them emulated with an Xbox controller.
But the Switch Pro controller (found it, https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/pro-controller/) is basically that... a full size, Xbox like controller you can bring with you. You can leave the smaller side controllers at home and just use Switch in tabletop mode, maybe...?
There are more comfortable PC and Android handhelds too, if you're not set on the Switch ecosystem.
But the Switch Pro controller (found it, https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/pro-controller/) is basically that... a full size, Xbox like controller you can bring with you. You can leave the smaller side controllers at home and just use Switch in tabletop mode, maybe...?
There are more comfortable PC and Android handhelds too, if you're not set on the Switch ecosystem.
The build quality is indeed very poor but the mechanic actually is pretty fun, similar to the Wii, it can be used for exercising, perfect gift for seniors
No other console manage to deliver like Nintendo did with both the Wii and the Switch
Sony/Microsoft have a lot to learn, hopefully their next gen include a portable device with original mechanics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqSMxb9txSw
No other console manage to deliver like Nintendo did with both the Wii and the Switch
Sony/Microsoft have a lot to learn, hopefully their next gen include a portable device with original mechanics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqSMxb9txSw
It feels like Xbox also serves as a reference controller for PC. Viewed from that angle, basic and conservative makes sense.
I still really like the XBox controllers for their ergonomics. They’ve been refining that same basic design for a long time.
I still really like the XBox controllers for their ergonomics. They’ve been refining that same basic design for a long time.
I appreciate the in-depth look but i will say that it really isn't necessary and these things are completely openable, cleanable, operatable, and repairiable in most cases. I have opened, cleaned, operated on and repaired many of them. (except for the rubber pads, if they go ...you're kinda fu...deged)
kinda of a let down.
CT scan and just focus on the big huge unavoidably obvious stuff.
The biggest change in feel and game play from the SNES and the newer controller for example is the lack of plate under the dpad and other things that are awsome to see with a scan like that. Yet they ignore all that.
CT scan and just focus on the big huge unavoidably obvious stuff.
The biggest change in feel and game play from the SNES and the newer controller for example is the lack of plate under the dpad and other things that are awsome to see with a scan like that. Yet they ignore all that.
> Nintendo established the blueprint for gamepads in 1985 with the iconic rectangular Nintendo Entertainment System
I'm pretty sure they did it two years before with the famicom gamepad.
I'm pretty sure they did it two years before with the famicom gamepad.
Right, but Famicom is just the Japanese name for the NES, which, as you say, debuted in Japan first.
The NES actually had a pretty different shell, removable controllers, one audio channel less, and some other hardware differences.
Yeah a different shell catered for the American market and certainly some minor differences, and despite regional incompatiblity, the NES & Famicom have the same core chips and instruction set.
Op is right, the famicom/nes was released in 1983
I concurred with the 1983 release date for the Famicom/NES in Japan. Just pointing out that it's really the same system.
The website/presentation is really cool. One thing that's missing is some bookmarks on the right side, to scroll directly to a specific controller/section.
Perfect combination combining the wonders of youth (video games) with the wonders of adult age (understanding and building technology).
you can just open them with screwdrivers I'm sure.
Finally scanofthemonth makes it to the front page of HN
You can do this yourself. Just bring a USB drive to the airport and ask the TSA officer for a copy of the images.
I would hope that data can’t be just copied to a USB. I would like to believe it is destroyed automatically except with an override authorization code from a couple of managers but I know better.
When TSA employees were busted for saving pics of women going through their nudie scanners they were saving the images on their cell phones if that makes you feel better.
That sounds like a major security liability
You can see what the agents are looking at just going through a security line.
I meant more from a standpoint of random USBs from the public being plugged into their computers.
Are they going to give me copies? Do I need to threaten them with GDPR?
The TSA DGAF about GDPR
any signs of overheating? ps4 is the worsts
The PS5 controller has "linear resonant actuators" (previously introduced in the Switch, and in the iPhone before that) which provide a much more fine-grained rumble feature than the older method which is still used in the XBox. The newer feature lets you feel e.g. that the character walks over sand, rubble or grass. The PS5 controller also has actual force-feedback triggers (which simulate e.g. a bow or a gun), while on the XBox there are only simple rumble motors. The XBox controller also still lacks a gyroscope (e.g. used for more precise aiming), which other controllers have for many years now. A really outdated piece of hardware, in contrast to the base console.