Microsoft Owns the Trademark for “X”(tsdr.uspto.gov)
tsdr.uspto.gov
Microsoft Owns the Trademark for “X”
https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch
137 comments
Aren’t Musk and the Zuck feuding right now? This is a hilarious setup.
Elon had this planned out from the start, 50 steps ahead.
Make an outrageously high bid on a site with no consistent profit, try desperately to get out of the deal, and fail (as a misdirection of course), alienate power users, kill 50% of revenue, totally nuke site reliability, lose all the top talent, and of course, rack up a pile of lawsuits a mile deep.
And only THEN, blow everybody’s mind by jettisoning a brand so valuable it is a globally recognized verb, rebranding using your competitors IP, and take over 50% of global banking.*
(* this is actually what he said.)
Make an outrageously high bid on a site with no consistent profit, try desperately to get out of the deal, and fail (as a misdirection of course), alienate power users, kill 50% of revenue, totally nuke site reliability, lose all the top talent, and of course, rack up a pile of lawsuits a mile deep.
And only THEN, blow everybody’s mind by jettisoning a brand so valuable it is a globally recognized verb, rebranding using your competitors IP, and take over 50% of global banking.*
(* this is actually what he said.)
Because I need to vent...
I dreamt this morning that I was berating ElMo for being off his meds and making billion-dollar decisions while in manic phase. For months.
I'm actually pretty annoyed that I would even dream about it. I detest the expression, but this is a perfect example of "living rent-free in someone's head". I need to get off the internet.
I dreamt this morning that I was berating ElMo for being off his meds and making billion-dollar decisions while in manic phase. For months.
I'm actually pretty annoyed that I would even dream about it. I detest the expression, but this is a perfect example of "living rent-free in someone's head". I need to get off the internet.
It's fascinating how people can't just ignore Elon, especially the people that don't even use/like Twitter.
Life is a lot easier if you just think "I don't care about" this and scroll past. Yet here we are, as I understanding the trademark to X will somehow matter in our personal lives or make us happy
Life is a lot easier if you just think "I don't care about" this and scroll past. Yet here we are, as I understanding the trademark to X will somehow matter in our personal lives or make us happy
I glance at news like this, chuckle a little at comments (and that is a positive), then go on without Twitter, now X.
I am happier.
I am happier.
That’s like saying “why does everyone rubber neck a horrific car accident? If they just ignored it and drive by traffic would be much better.” Everyone knows this. But we can’t help but be intrigued by the carnage.
I mean, that's exactly what I'm frustrated about. I wish I could ignore him, but like Trump before, he succeeds in constantly grabbing media attention and plastering himself over all the headlines.
Deliberate or not, its a good strategy.
There's no such thing as bad attention... Not anymore.
There's no such thing as bad attention... Not anymore.
Carlee Russel has entered the chat
There is something about successful men who get away with giving the finger to the woke crowd that _really_ tick people off.
It’s almost as though none of this was about business and totally about being an imagined champion for a mob of internet losers fighting a battle nobody with an ounce of sense, reason, or self respect buys into?
Big brain stuff. Big brain.
Big brain stuff. Big brain.
Sure, you can think that. I don't fault you. Musk is extremely childish at times and that's putting it lightly.
It's his money to light on fire and his reputation to tarnish. I don't know why people get so miffed by him. Twitter wasn't anything special to ruin and I think it's doing just fine nowadays.
It's his money to light on fire and his reputation to tarnish. I don't know why people get so miffed by him. Twitter wasn't anything special to ruin and I think it's doing just fine nowadays.
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I think that's certainly part of it, and it happens on all sides of the political Spectrum, but I just wonder why
[deleted]
I thought you literally meant Elmo and I found it hilarious.
But srsly bro you shouldn’t be dreaming about celebrities.
To be clear - I’m just agreeing that we could all benefit from being offline . I shouldn’t even be online at 2am!
But srsly bro you shouldn’t be dreaming about celebrities.
To be clear - I’m just agreeing that we could all benefit from being offline . I shouldn’t even be online at 2am!
To paraphrase hitchhikers guide, it may be the clear minded take is Elon needs to get off the internet and you’re fine.
For those who haven't seen it before, HN has a "noprocrast" feature on your profile page, which you can turn on to block access to the site for X minutes.
I know you're being sarcastic, but it's shocking how many people think he's actually a genius and all his missteps are really galaxy-brain maneuvers we just don't understand yet. Like, there are millions of them.
Can't wait to see the promised payment part of "x".
It's gona have crypto and KYC, doesn't it?
Conveniently the advertizers will likely like the additional info.
As will regimes like the saudis.
It's gona have crypto and KYC, doesn't it?
Conveniently the advertizers will likely like the additional info.
As will regimes like the saudis.
I think I'm going to trust Karpathy on this one over random HN commenters, but that's just me:
"Elon also understands deep neural nets a lot more than I think people imagine. He starts with good intuitions and mental models, but also actively asks for technical deep dives, and has very good retention. E.g. I recall teaching him about our use of focal loss in contrast to binary cross-entropy for the object detection neural net (I said it had given us a 5% bump and he asked to know more) and he understood how it works about as quickly as you'd expect a PhD student to. The fact that he can do this across many technical disciplines is impressive and borderline superhuman. I don't think people understand or would believe how low-level and technical typical meetings with him are. Just saying because I get triggered reading way off innacurate takes on this topic (original comment)."
-https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33703617
"Elon also understands deep neural nets a lot more than I think people imagine. He starts with good intuitions and mental models, but also actively asks for technical deep dives, and has very good retention. E.g. I recall teaching him about our use of focal loss in contrast to binary cross-entropy for the object detection neural net (I said it had given us a 5% bump and he asked to know more) and he understood how it works about as quickly as you'd expect a PhD student to. The fact that he can do this across many technical disciplines is impressive and borderline superhuman. I don't think people understand or would believe how low-level and technical typical meetings with him are. Just saying because I get triggered reading way off innacurate takes on this topic (original comment)."
-https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33703617
A lot of HN users don't want to hear this, but being good at engineering doesn't mean that you're good at business.
I'm trying to figure out why anyone cares one way or the other
I’m jealous of Elon for being able to be on so many drugs simultaneously.
I can only do one drug, max, at a time.
I believe in you. You can do it. Dream big.
Legal Disclaimer: not actual advice.
Legal Disclaimer: not actual advice.
I’m starting to just feel sad because I’m suspecting serious cognitive decline or mental illness. At this point it’s just watching someone have a crisis.
Interesting things start to happen to you once you have too much money. This is a case study that will be written about in the, er, DSM, most likely.
Maybe this is a variant of the long-rumored affluenza?
Maybe this is a variant of the long-rumored affluenza?
It's true that the need for all of this right-wing adulation didn't really blow up until Grimes left him for a trans person, but he was always this person. Ask Peter Thiel.
Remember, the entire point of this X exercise is revenge on people who wronged him at PayPal (where he demonstrated total incompetence at managing software projects and people). He's going to show them, dammit. He's going to show all of them!
Remember, the entire point of this X exercise is revenge on people who wronged him at PayPal (where he demonstrated total incompetence at managing software projects and people). He's going to show them, dammit. He's going to show all of them!
Is Twitter usage (measured in daily active user hours per day) lower now than it was before the acquisition?
I don’t know if we know. But they have changed the metric they’re measuring publicly to one that is more “accurate” (according to them) and going up quite a bit.
So I’m sure it’s all wine & roses and they’ll be profitable any day.
So I’m sure it’s all wine & roses and they’ll be profitable any day.
I prefer to measure in fortnightly active users per hogshead.
But if you're a bit less fussy about the exact metric, Pew Research has some data on the topic:
> "A majority of Americans who have used Twitter in the past year report taking a break from the platform during that time, and a quarter say they are not likely to use it a year from now, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted about five months after billionaire Elon Musk acquired the site." -- https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/17/majority-...
> "The majority of highly active Twitter users continue to use the site following Musk’s takeover but are posting less frequently on average." -- https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/17/how-us-ad...
But if you're a bit less fussy about the exact metric, Pew Research has some data on the topic:
> "A majority of Americans who have used Twitter in the past year report taking a break from the platform during that time, and a quarter say they are not likely to use it a year from now, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted about five months after billionaire Elon Musk acquired the site." -- https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/17/majority-...
> "The majority of highly active Twitter users continue to use the site following Musk’s takeover but are posting less frequently on average." -- https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/17/how-us-ad...
Sorry forgot that aspect of the master plan: increase “engagement”, raise server costs, and cut revenue in half at the exact same time to prove once and for all that traffic as a universal measure of site value is an entirely corrupt idea that should be abandoned to focus on actual revenue.
50 steps ahead. Man is a genius.
50 steps ahead. Man is a genius.
[deleted]
Probably but only because musk removed actual moderation tools and now spends 24x7 furiously refreshing the timeline to manually permaban anyone not sucking up to him.
[deleted]
Almost all engagement metrics are self-reported, and companies in the "attention economy" tend to lie about them; I don't expect elon musk to be any better.
[deleted]
The masterplan unfolding.
Elon is a genius
No, he’s not. He’s something so much better than that we don’t even have a word for it. He is a human singularity, I can’t believe we get to be alive on this earth at the same time as this man.
"In principle, I don’t believe anyone should own or run Twitter. It wants to be a public good at a protocol level, not a company. Solving for the problem of it being a company however, Elon is the singular solution I trust. I trust his mission to extend the light of consciousness."
- Jack Dorsey, April 25, 2022.
Certainly nobody can deny Elon is solving for the problem of Twitter being a company.
- Jack Dorsey, April 25, 2022.
Certainly nobody can deny Elon is solving for the problem of Twitter being a company.
> I trust his mission to extend the light of consciousness."
If only we could convert bullshit to energy, we'd need just a handful of these billionaire luminaries to solve the world's energy needs.
If only we could convert bullshit to energy, we'd need just a handful of these billionaire luminaries to solve the world's energy needs.
He took that back.
https://fortune.com/2023/04/29/elon-musk-twitter-jack-dorsey...
https://fortune.com/2023/04/29/elon-musk-twitter-jack-dorsey...
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You are in good company: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
Wait - how does he simultaneously bid on a site with "no revenue" and then "kill 50% of it." If the revenue was meaningless then killing half of it shouldn't matter. If it wasn't meaningless then the "no revenue" comment makes no sense. Which is it?
Grandparent comment probably meant to say "no profit" instead of "no revenue". But yeah killing half of your revenue when you aren't even making profit yet is probably a bad idea.
It would make complete sense even if the total revenue was $1, which of course it wasn’t.
I suspect you know exactly what was meant by those two statements..
I suspect you know exactly what was meant by those two statements..
The phrase "no revenue" should have been "no profit".
Lots of people/companies own a trademark on X. It's a very common TM. I mean it is a single letter after all!
Absolutely, but. If Microsoft owns it in the context of social media, that changes everything.
Sure there's a Delta Airlines and a Delta Faucets. If I wanted to start Delta Carpentry of Iowa that wouldn't be an issue. However, if I bought Alaska Airlines, woke up tomorrow and rebranded it Delta - you can be sure they'd fly their lawyers out to Anchorage out on a Gulfstream.
[edit] Meta -> Microsoft, from tfa. My bad.
Sure there's a Delta Airlines and a Delta Faucets. If I wanted to start Delta Carpentry of Iowa that wouldn't be an issue. However, if I bought Alaska Airlines, woke up tomorrow and rebranded it Delta - you can be sure they'd fly their lawyers out to Anchorage out on a Gulfstream.
[edit] Meta -> Microsoft, from tfa. My bad.
But is Meta actually using it? I haven't seen it. Good luck to them trying to defend the mark id they aren't actively using it (or even worse, never did).
The link, under Goods and Services says:
> Providing on-line chat rooms for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games; providing on-line electronic bulletin boards for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games
Under the prosecution history, it shows activity every few years.
Maybe you're right, maybe if this goes to trial or something, it won't meet the burden? I wouldn't want to be on the other end of Satya's legal team though.
> Providing on-line chat rooms for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games; providing on-line electronic bulletin boards for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games
Under the prosecution history, it shows activity every few years.
Maybe you're right, maybe if this goes to trial or something, it won't meet the burden? I wouldn't want to be on the other end of Satya's legal team though.
Also Delta fans and Delta power supplies.
Tons of them.
A 'Delta Force' if you will
> Standard Character Claim: No
> Mark Drawing Type: 1 - TYPESET WORD(S) /LETTER(S) /NUMBER(S)
They do not own the trademark for the letter "X" (that would make a "Standard Character Claim") but the very specific typeset, as featured on the right side of the linked page.
Here [1] it patents a specific illustration format of X. Again no standard character claim.
So no issue for former twitter, as you can easily see the typeset is very different.
I do not know if there is any precedent of a standard character claim for a single letter, but that would really sound ridiculous to me tbh.
[1] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_...
> Mark Drawing Type: 1 - TYPESET WORD(S) /LETTER(S) /NUMBER(S)
They do not own the trademark for the letter "X" (that would make a "Standard Character Claim") but the very specific typeset, as featured on the right side of the linked page.
Here [1] it patents a specific illustration format of X. Again no standard character claim.
So no issue for former twitter, as you can easily see the typeset is very different.
I do not know if there is any precedent of a standard character claim for a single letter, but that would really sound ridiculous to me tbh.
[1] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_...
https://trademarkgarden.com/2018/03/09/amazon-and-you/
The two are equivalent.
The two are equivalent.
No, they aren't, and your source doesn't say they are. This is your source's description of the type of trademark that Meta has on X (AN ILLUSTRATION DRAWING WITH WORD(S) /LETTER(S)/ NUMBER(S) INSTYLIZED FORM):
> This Type is similar to “STANDARD CHARACTER MARK” in that it can only include words or phrases, and not images, however it does include a claim as to the particular stylization (font) and may, but do not have to, claim color. For example, the trademark “NETFLIX” written in stylized red font.
Edit: The source below is a bit more clear on the differences.
https://www.mavenip.com/blog/standard-character-mark-or-logo...
> This Type is similar to “STANDARD CHARACTER MARK” in that it can only include words or phrases, and not images, however it does include a claim as to the particular stylization (font) and may, but do not have to, claim color. For example, the trademark “NETFLIX” written in stylized red font.
Edit: The source below is a bit more clear on the differences.
https://www.mavenip.com/blog/standard-character-mark-or-logo...
At least Meta made a unique mark. "𝕏" is a mathematical symbol, known as a doublestruck, or blackboard bold, letter X.
You can't get trademark on a mathematical symbol, generally.
https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_bold
Such a letter 𝕏 is sometimes used to represent arbitrary or generic metric space:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_space
There is already another Hacker News thread that is dealing with this specific symbol:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36846076
You can't get trademark on a mathematical symbol, generally.
https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_bold
Such a letter 𝕏 is sometimes used to represent arbitrary or generic metric space:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_space
There is already another Hacker News thread that is dealing with this specific symbol:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36846076
Not talking about Meta's X, talking about Microsoft's X
It seems that indeed the "1 typed drawing" code is some sort of older version of the "4 standard character mark" code, it was a bit confusing [1]. Still I am unconvinced that this is enforceable in scale apart from protecting them from somebody else basically imitating their x-box services with a fake website or app. It seems that they have a very narrow scope of what it is about (chats/messages etc around gaming).
[1] https://www.docdroid.net/file/download/Ix0YicK/trademarks-ru...
[1] https://www.docdroid.net/file/download/Ix0YicK/trademarks-ru...
IANYL.
Microsoft owns a trademark registration for X [standard character] for certain goods and services (see: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US...). Meta owns a trademark registration for X (Stylized), which Microsoft apparently assigned to Meta (see https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_...). Musk as been using X in various capacities since the 90s, and depending on the specifics of that use, may have some common law trademark rights in the mark.
Regardless of whether or not any party has a registration for a particular trademark/service mark identifying certain goods/services, the question about whether the marks should be allowed to co-exist depends on whether there is a likelihood that there will be confusion between the 2 marks in the marketplace (defining the appropriate marketplace is part of the test for any given likelihood of confusion analysis). There are some other concerns, such as dilution with respect to famous marks that may or may not come into play, but likelihood of [consumer] confusion is the root of it.
Microsoft owns a trademark registration for X [standard character] for certain goods and services (see: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US...). Meta owns a trademark registration for X (Stylized), which Microsoft apparently assigned to Meta (see https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_...). Musk as been using X in various capacities since the 90s, and depending on the specifics of that use, may have some common law trademark rights in the mark.
Regardless of whether or not any party has a registration for a particular trademark/service mark identifying certain goods/services, the question about whether the marks should be allowed to co-exist depends on whether there is a likelihood that there will be confusion between the 2 marks in the marketplace (defining the appropriate marketplace is part of the test for any given likelihood of confusion analysis). There are some other concerns, such as dilution with respect to famous marks that may or may not come into play, but likelihood of [consumer] confusion is the root of it.
Meta and Microsoft may have registered those trademarks but I haven't seen them using them, so they might struggle to actually defend them in court against someone who is very clearly actually using "X".
Honestly Apple probably has the best shot, as they do use "X" prominently. Mac OS X, iPhone X, etc.
Honestly Apple probably has the best shot, as they do use "X" prominently. Mac OS X, iPhone X, etc.
IANYL.
Just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean there is a market (e.g., b2b) where they may be using them. Also, in this particular instance, since these are registered we can look at what they have provided the USPTO as evidence of use in order to renew the registrations. Microsoft (I think the X involved might actually be the X on the globe logo): https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docI.... For Microsoft's use before assigning to Meta: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn87980831&docI.... For that second one, looks like MS sold some assets to Meta after is shut down its Mixer service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixer_(service)
Apple does use X a lot in product names, but (i) the use is never on its own, so the comparison of the marks is, e.g., X vs Mac OS X, and (ii) Apple generally uses X to denote "10" so that portion of the mark is arguably descriptive or generic as a version number (see https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/print?version=current&href=...).
Just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean there is a market (e.g., b2b) where they may be using them. Also, in this particular instance, since these are registered we can look at what they have provided the USPTO as evidence of use in order to renew the registrations. Microsoft (I think the X involved might actually be the X on the globe logo): https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docI.... For Microsoft's use before assigning to Meta: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn87980831&docI.... For that second one, looks like MS sold some assets to Meta after is shut down its Mixer service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixer_(service)
Apple does use X a lot in product names, but (i) the use is never on its own, so the comparison of the marks is, e.g., X vs Mac OS X, and (ii) Apple generally uses X to denote "10" so that portion of the mark is arguably descriptive or generic as a version number (see https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/print?version=current&href=...).
Isn't xbox logo an x?
The "Moron in a hurry test." is stikl one of my favorites.
https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_...
ms sold this one to meta
ms sold this one to meta
So Microsoft sold the Mixer logo trademark to Meta? Cool.
This one is much more applicable to Musk's X:
> Design and development of computer software; providing interactive websites featuring technology that enable online users to create personal profiles; providing online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software, for transmitting and for receiving live streaming; providing online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software, for transmitting and for receiving video on demand; electronic storage of electronic media, namely, images, text, video, and audio data; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for broadcasting, transmitting, receiving, accessing, viewing, uploading, downloading, sharing, integrating, encoding, decoding, displaying, formatting, organizing, storing, caching, transferring and streaming of data, text, games, game content, digital media, images, music, audio, video and animations; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for sending, receiving and organizing electronic mail, messaging, enabling internet chat and social networking; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for purchasing and subscribing to digital media content; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for developing and publishing applications for interactive streaming; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for management and storage of digital media; computer software consulting services in the field of gaming technology and graphics software; computer programming services; providing temporary use of non-downloadable game software; Application service provider (ASP), namely, hosting computer software applications of others; hosting of third party digital content in the nature of photos, videos, audio, music, text, data, images, software, applications, games, web sites and other electronic works on the Internet; hosting of digital content on the Internet; consulting in the field of the design and development of computer hardware, software, software applications, and computer networks; digital and electronic file data transfer from one computer format to another; provision of Internet and computer network search engines; graphic design services; Software as a Service (SAAS) featuring software for facilitating audio, video and digital content creation, subscriptions and one-time purchases; creating an online community for computer users to participate in discussions, obtain feedback, form virtual communities, and engage in social networking; software maintenance, installation and update services; providing a website featuring technology that enables users to live stream gaming content, music, audio, video and animations
> Online social networking services; online social networking services, namely, facilitating social introductions or interactions among individuals; social networking services in the fields of entertainment, gaming and application development; providing information about social networking that involves online gaming, online video games and online video gaming applications; providing an Internet website portal for engaging in social networking; providing information, news, commentary in the field of social networking
> Design and development of computer software; providing interactive websites featuring technology that enable online users to create personal profiles; providing online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software, for transmitting and for receiving live streaming; providing online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software, for transmitting and for receiving video on demand; electronic storage of electronic media, namely, images, text, video, and audio data; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for broadcasting, transmitting, receiving, accessing, viewing, uploading, downloading, sharing, integrating, encoding, decoding, displaying, formatting, organizing, storing, caching, transferring and streaming of data, text, games, game content, digital media, images, music, audio, video and animations; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for sending, receiving and organizing electronic mail, messaging, enabling internet chat and social networking; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for purchasing and subscribing to digital media content; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for developing and publishing applications for interactive streaming; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for management and storage of digital media; computer software consulting services in the field of gaming technology and graphics software; computer programming services; providing temporary use of non-downloadable game software; Application service provider (ASP), namely, hosting computer software applications of others; hosting of third party digital content in the nature of photos, videos, audio, music, text, data, images, software, applications, games, web sites and other electronic works on the Internet; hosting of digital content on the Internet; consulting in the field of the design and development of computer hardware, software, software applications, and computer networks; digital and electronic file data transfer from one computer format to another; provision of Internet and computer network search engines; graphic design services; Software as a Service (SAAS) featuring software for facilitating audio, video and digital content creation, subscriptions and one-time purchases; creating an online community for computer users to participate in discussions, obtain feedback, form virtual communities, and engage in social networking; software maintenance, installation and update services; providing a website featuring technology that enables users to live stream gaming content, music, audio, video and animations
> Online social networking services; online social networking services, namely, facilitating social introductions or interactions among individuals; social networking services in the fields of entertainment, gaming and application development; providing information about social networking that involves online gaming, online video games and online video gaming applications; providing an Internet website portal for engaging in social networking; providing information, news, commentary in the field of social networking
Looks like Musk needs to invent a very creative way for circumvention...
Every time I have seen the logo I thought of X.org logo:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Foundation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Foundation
They've been goofing on this on Mastodon.
https://floss.social/@XOrgFoundation/110769211019949515
https://floss.social/@XOrgFoundation/110769211019949515
It's scoped to video games and associated entertainment and services so it shouldn't apply to Twitter, if that's what this post is getting at.
"Entertainment services, namely, providing interactive multiplayer game services for games played over computer networks and global
communications networks; providing computer games and video games downloadable over computer global communications
networks; providing information on the video game and computer game industries via the Internet; and providing information on
computer games, video games, video game consoles and accessories therefor via the Internet"
Musk's vision for X seems to be an everything app similar to WeChat. Wouldn't MS's trademark at least limit him from expanding X into gaming?
Or, it seems, any tweet that talks about gaming. It'd be funny if gaming companies and publications had to be removed from Twitter because of this trademark issue. Or if a Microsoft game studio tweeted about a game and it'd be a basis for a Microsoft trademark lawsuit against Twitter:
A similar sort of trademark fight:
> In 1978, Apple Corps, the Beatles-founded holding company and owner of their record label, Apple Records, filed a lawsuit against Apple Computer for trademark infringement. The suit was settled in 1981 with an undisclosed amount being paid to Apple Corps. [...] As a condition of the settlement, Apple Computer agreed not to enter the music business, and Apple Corps agreed not to enter the computer business.
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
A similar sort of trademark fight:
> In 1978, Apple Corps, the Beatles-founded holding company and owner of their record label, Apple Records, filed a lawsuit against Apple Computer for trademark infringement. The suit was settled in 1981 with an undisclosed amount being paid to Apple Corps. [...] As a condition of the settlement, Apple Computer agreed not to enter the music business, and Apple Corps agreed not to enter the computer business.
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
I recommend checking under "Goods and Services" on that page. Some of those seem _just_ vague enough that Twitter could run afoul of them.
The fact that it's vague also means it's easier to have it invalidated on the basis that it's too broad.
Vague but still within a narrow domain which is much harder to invalidate for being too broad.
The Internet seems huge to programmers, but it’s still a fairly narrow slice of economic activity. We aren’t talking about nursery schools, hospitals, fast food, or even the XGames etc just because they happen to have a website.
The Internet seems huge to programmers, but it’s still a fairly narrow slice of economic activity. We aren’t talking about nursery schools, hospitals, fast food, or even the XGames etc just because they happen to have a website.
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I have no idea of the legalities of this. Personally, I feel the rebrand of Twitter to X was a pretty dumb move.
However like most discourse nowadays, I can't trust a single take on any of this. It's all predictably far more political than fact-based in a sort of self-fulfilling, postmodern, prophesy.
Digg was utterly destroyed by this. Then Reddit, which has not died, but is utterly captured and zombified. HackerNews is the last bastion of this - and it is certainly the best, but is clearly being Digg/Reddit'fied.
Whatever this ideological capture cancer zombification is - it's cancer. If you are reading this, recognize it is probably happening to you too. Seems inevitable.
However like most discourse nowadays, I can't trust a single take on any of this. It's all predictably far more political than fact-based in a sort of self-fulfilling, postmodern, prophesy.
Digg was utterly destroyed by this. Then Reddit, which has not died, but is utterly captured and zombified. HackerNews is the last bastion of this - and it is certainly the best, but is clearly being Digg/Reddit'fied.
Whatever this ideological capture cancer zombification is - it's cancer. If you are reading this, recognize it is probably happening to you too. Seems inevitable.
What is this about reddit being zombified? Dont they have huge traffic?
The once hilarious, once satirical, r/pyongyang subreddit is now unironically an influential bastion of Communist propaganda. Its contributors are no longer ironic or ban-posting - they are true believers, and they're indistinguishable from the moderators of most all major subreddits & the corporate overlords who tacitly support them. At this point, none even bother to pretend they believe in "free speech" as a human right.
The "you have now been banned by r/pyongyang" punchline is now far more relevant to any subreddit, thread or comment that is not sufficiently left wing (as defined by current date/time).
Reddit is "democratic" insofar as the most upvoted thread/comment makes it to the top, right? No. Around 2016, something happened. (Won't speculate here). Now every default subreddit is run/moderated by explicitly far left wing activists. All non-default subreddits with any level of popularity is similarly run/moderated by explicitly far left wing activists. If it ain't far left Tumblr leftist, it's right wing, and it shall be either annexed by a left wing mod and converted or outright banned.
I'd love to hear HN's strategy to combat this. It is truly nuts. But at this point, we all expect it.
The "you have now been banned by r/pyongyang" punchline is now far more relevant to any subreddit, thread or comment that is not sufficiently left wing (as defined by current date/time).
Reddit is "democratic" insofar as the most upvoted thread/comment makes it to the top, right? No. Around 2016, something happened. (Won't speculate here). Now every default subreddit is run/moderated by explicitly far left wing activists. All non-default subreddits with any level of popularity is similarly run/moderated by explicitly far left wing activists. If it ain't far left Tumblr leftist, it's right wing, and it shall be either annexed by a left wing mod and converted or outright banned.
I'd love to hear HN's strategy to combat this. It is truly nuts. But at this point, we all expect it.
Downvoters will legitimately truly struggle to find a reason why their censorship is better than the once satirical NK r/pyongyang censorship.
There is 0 difference in absurdity between banning posts of "Kim Jong Un does surely poop and pee" in r/pyongyang and "Men cannot get pregnant" in r/science.
They're cult members stuck. Unfortunately it's not easy to get unstuck from there.
There is 0 difference in absurdity between banning posts of "Kim Jong Un does surely poop and pee" in r/pyongyang and "Men cannot get pregnant" in r/science.
They're cult members stuck. Unfortunately it's not easy to get unstuck from there.
> There is 0 difference in absurdity between banning posts of "Kim Jong Un does surely poop and pee" in r/pyongyang and "Men cannot get pregnant" in r/science.
You've been radicalized. Please get help.
You've been radicalized. Please get help.
"Kim Jong Un is a human who poops and pees" and "men cannot get pregnant" are both statements of objective fact.
I once posted in subreddit A, and got banned just because I had once posted in the "alt-right" subreddit B (which was an apolitical comedy subreddit).
There's also X, the moonshot company (Google, Alphabet) https://x.company
For computer gaming things yes. You could, for example register your own trademark on X for selling unusual bananas without violating Microsoft’s mark
>Providing on-line chat rooms for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games; providing on-line electronic bulletin boards for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games
> Entertainment services, namely, providing interactive multiplayer game services for games played over computer networks and global communications networks; providing computer games and video games downloadable over computer global communications networks; providing information on the video game and computer game industries via the Internet; and providing information on computer games, video games, video game consoles and accessories therefor via the Internet
>Providing on-line chat rooms for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games; providing on-line electronic bulletin boards for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games
> Entertainment services, namely, providing interactive multiplayer game services for games played over computer networks and global communications networks; providing computer games and video games downloadable over computer global communications networks; providing information on the video game and computer game industries via the Internet; and providing information on computer games, video games, video game consoles and accessories therefor via the Internet
This MS trademark could certainly put a damper on X becoming the "everything" app for the internet even if it doesn't appear to be an issue for The Site Formerly Known as Twitter currently.
No it won't, because you can't trademark usage of a letter generally.
This is getting out of hand. X: is it "ecs" or "chi" ... and that's only the Latin and Greek alphabets.
https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docI...
... shows a u/c Latin X with serifs. However the current "status" shows the Mark as: X ie sans-serif.
Is there a difference with respect to a trademark, in the US, between X avec au sans serif? You obviously can't trademark something drawn from the commons - so the letter X itself is probably out of bounds unless you use it in an innovative way.
To become a trademark, you need to innovate in some way ... be distinctive. X ie two short lines crossing at their mid point at an angle between 30 and 45 degrees (can easily be made more formal) defines ... x.
The original filing seems to define X with embellishments (serifs). The current Status implies X without embellishments. Also, the original depiction is pixelated and the L to R stroke is thicker than the R to L stroke.
Its all a bit woolly
https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docI...
... shows a u/c Latin X with serifs. However the current "status" shows the Mark as: X ie sans-serif.
Is there a difference with respect to a trademark, in the US, between X avec au sans serif? You obviously can't trademark something drawn from the commons - so the letter X itself is probably out of bounds unless you use it in an innovative way.
To become a trademark, you need to innovate in some way ... be distinctive. X ie two short lines crossing at their mid point at an angle between 30 and 45 degrees (can easily be made more formal) defines ... x.
The original filing seems to define X with embellishments (serifs). The current Status implies X without embellishments. Also, the original depiction is pixelated and the L to R stroke is thicker than the R to L stroke.
Its all a bit woolly
At least in relation to video games.
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Twitter no doubt has a huge legal department that ran a trademark search and decided their use was permissible.
not sure if sarcastic or not. with musk at the helm and with the how he has been firing large swaths of people and has a habit of impulsively acting i wouldn't count on it.
First they’d need to still work there, and second he’d need to listen to them. Good luck!
Had.
They don't have departments anymore and I don't think they can afford legal advice. It's probably just Elon using ChatGPT.
not anymore!
X owns the trademark for "X" simply by using it, whether it was registered with a trademark office or not. It certainly doesn't hurt that Elon's company registered X.com in 1993, then he purchased it from Paypal in 2017 and has been using it in various capacities since then.
They owned the trademark for X scoped to banking and financial services. Meta owns the trademark scoped to social media.
Trademark is established by use. Registration can offer an extra level of protection, but is not necessary to own a trademark. Elon has been using his X.com since he bought it back from PayPal in 2017, which interestingly is around the time some of these other 'X' registrations took place.
Is Meta using the trademark "X" for social media though? I haven't seen it. They're not gonna win anything if they're not actually using it. That's like the first and most important thing.
and it sounds like the logo is just a unicode character <https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F>, or from a standard font <https://catalog.monotype.com/font/monotype/special-alphabets...>.
Hasn't it been a blank page with a x for a long ass time?
Transmitting an 'x' online, seems like he's in the data transmission business. It has also been used as a redirect to The Boring Company website to sell hats.
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> Mark Type: Service Mark
Doesn't this just mean they own the rights to their use as a logo? Eg the stylized X on their products? I don't think this blocks anybody from using X in their products as long as the logos are clearly different.
Doesn't this just mean they own the rights to their use as a logo? Eg the stylized X on their products? I don't think this blocks anybody from using X in their products as long as the logos are clearly different.
Can you trademark an Unicode character? 𝕏
> Twitter's autoresponder replied "We'll get back to you soon."
This is impressive. No more poop emoji?
This is impressive. No more poop emoji?
The Microsoft application (which was granted) was only in relation to online games, messaging services related to such games, and so on, as described in the trademark application. It's not a universal "We own the letter x!"
The two classes focus on video games, so I think (Twitt)er is fine (though if Twitter launched a Twitch competitor one could see it becoming a problem for them!)
I didn’t know a letter can be trademarked. If let’s say Xerox decides to get into the video game business, can Microsoft sue them for trademark infringement?
Xerox is not "X". You may be interested in doing some research in this area what is trade markable and also the procedure. Even if the trademark is registered it can still be challenged. Other interesting things that can be trademarked include colours and sounds, even scents
In the EU there even is a "3D trademark". One famous example is the LEGO mini figure, which LEGO uses to sue anyone that tries to sell any remotely similar LEGO compatible mini figure.
A trademark on "X" doesn't block using 'Xerox'
Do you need to actively use and defend a trademark to maintain it? And does using and defending "X-box" don't the same as "X"?
Microsoft doesn't offer "X" social media service. This headline is FUD.
Looks on point, huh
x>
The Norwegian Blue... 44 billion volts...
This is an X-Parrot!!
The Norwegian Blue... 44 billion volts...
This is an X-Parrot!!
EDIT: The last one in the list is in regard to this domain:
> Online social networking services; online social networking services, namely, facilitating social introductions or interactions among individuals; social networking services in the fields of entertainment, gaming and application development; providing information about social networking that involves online gaming, online video games and online video gaming applications; providing an Internet website portal for engaging in social networking; providing information, news, commentary in the field of social networking